Rail steel is typically about 70 points of carbon (0.7%) but has manganese added. The manganese makes it a work hardening steel; the more it is worked, the harder it gets. The more train wheels run over it; the harder it becomes. Using it for an anvil means that the more you beat on it, the harder it gets.
Its more complicated than that. My recollection is that in small amounts Mn makes it "crumbly", but once you hit 12% it makes it very tough and abrasion resistant www.ssab.com/company/newsroom/media-archive/2015/7/31/why-hardox-550-beats-12-manganese-steel-and-500-brinell-steel-in-wear-parts
so eventually it will become brittle? like will it suddenly snap in half in a few years or does it soften again after inactivity?? or is it a super slow rate or... what
@@patrickpitz1879 No, it's extremely tough. At least the metallurgy for it is coming out of the mill the rail is made in. Rail has to be both tough and decently hard due to the incredible demands placed on it by 200 tons of locomotive and who knows how many 150 ton wagons said locomotive is hauling. If it was too brittle, it would literally snap under the incredible demands. Cast iron was originally used for rail in the first days of railroading but proved to be too brittle for the task. In truth, steel rail is some of the most precisely made steel out there. It definitely has a good amount of give though. If you've ever seen pictures or come across rail laid out for replacement, you'll notice that the rail seems all noodly and bendy before they slot it into the ties. It really is amazing stuff all things considered.
Another great video, my friend. Very informative, and a great demonstration of testing metal for hardness. These may be useful techniques for anyone making knives out of old files, for example. Thanks very much for sharing this.
I really appreciate the video here. I just picked up a piece of rail to turn it into an anvil and it's good to know that it will probably stand up to the abuse of being an anvil. Great video!
Awezome now i know i can harden the mini anvil im making so thank you man. As for the lost wax casting, metal canister, right type of plaster and the right temperature schedule for the kiln. There are a lot of great tutorials on youtube for this :)
This video was awesome it was very informative, and it gave me a great idea with what to do with a small piece of track I have in the shop. Sorry to hear about the lost wax video. But keep up the good work your videos are always very inspirational thanks again and take care my friend.
Lost wax casting will fail if you dont put the satincast under vaccum. It needs to be vacummed for 10 minutes or so until no bubbles then allowed to dry overnight. After that it need to ramp, the temp raises slowly to dry the satincast then it goes hot and hold. Wax will burn out then time to spin. Not easy, also, the satincast needs to be inside a steel sleeve. Otherwise it will fail. Signed a Professional Goldsmith.
Did a couple of jobs for Vic Rail hardening rail frogs using sheet explosive. It works very well. Basically the pressure wave and heat from the detonating explosive heats the wear surface of the frog and the pressure compresses the surface. The effect is to provide a harder denser surface profile that withstands the wear of the wheels and doubles the life of the frog. Good fun.
This is pretty great to know. I saw another guy attempt to harden his track but he just heated up the whole top part and threw it in a tub of water. Didn't seem to work too well the way he did it.
RR rail is a minimum of .070 points carbon... the larger the track, the higher the carbon content... up to .095 RR Track has a high manganese content which makes it tough as well... Track is annealed as it is rolled, it work hardens under the train wheels, but can be heat treated for hardness... It makes great knives.... Most mining track and small gauge rails are NOT hardenable, but actual Railroad rail is
I would sure hope the railroad track is hardenable seeing how the Japanese used it to made sword blades out of it at in the early 1900s because they wanted every officer in their military to carry a sword and making the traditional tamahagane was too time consuming and there weren't enough people making it in their shops to have enough steel on hand to fulfill such a large order.
The chunk of rail that you used is pretty old from the date stamped on the side and can be as low as 0.5% carbon. There are newer rail alloys where the carbon content is up to 0.9% for high speed rail.
Someone told me that railroad tracks are (sometimes? Always?) made out of Mangalloy steel, which hardens under stress, and has a whole different reaction to heat treatment than regular steel
Black Beard Projects I've managed to forge a chameleon-shaped herb chopper out of a piece of tramrails before I knew what it (most likely) was, the heat treat on that seemed to work well too.. Trying to forge a larger piece of the same rails later however proved very difficult.. Guess the moral of the story is that steel is weird :p
Way late to this but thanks for the video!! This was full of good tests and great results!! What type of bandsaw was that you were using? That looks like a good saw for a home shop.
Mild steel can be hardened a little bit, or more if something like "super-quench" is used.It won't get as hard as higher carbon steel, of course. The old dogma is not accurate and it's important to know that mild steel can be used for tools in an emergency, under certain conditions.
Why did you call it lost wax casting? They use it most of the times in making bronze and sometimes brass and copper castings..... Mostly Bronze statues and such as brass and copper statues that have a lot of detail is not done as much, but it is certainly not lost. The foam casting one on the other hand is a lost casting due to the fact it is burning foam and extremely toxic and not to mention leaves a rather poor casting and can cause bubble due to the gases created.
Journeyman TIG welder here and well versed in metallurgy, the RR track is made from different alloys, but tend to run .70% carbon to .80%, called 90 UTS rail or Grade 880. A .45% and higher carbon content will get quite hard. RR track has to be high carbon, the train wheel is 1050 or 1155 steel so the RR track must be harder, or it will deform, disastrously if heavily trafficked. Understand the track is not fully hardened or it wouldn't bend or machine. It is so thick that trying to heat treat it would only succeed in making it hard to about 1/8-1/4" deep, depending on sectional density. Cut a piece of track with a torch and try to cut into the melted area, it will ruin your blade. ispatguru.com/rails-and-rail-steel/ Most RR spikes are .30% and not very hardenable, but there are some that were .6-8% and definitely hardenable. Only way to tell is to heat treat and see. Just FYI, steel bed frame angles are like 1080 steel as well.
I never understood why videos like this are even necessary. Google has been around for quite some time and a quick Google search will tell you that most rail track is made of 1084 carbon steel. Although they are hardened at different rates 1084 can be harden to many different and a wide range of hardness. And is not only a great knife steel but very forgiving for the beginners in metal fab and knife making. Some of the newer track has as much as 0.9% carbon and can be hardened up to about 55 Rockwell and perfectly suitable for knives. If more people would stop listening to the hype and all the keyboard warriors that think they know everything; saying it is not hard or hardenable; and instead start doing some of their own research and testing of their own like I did; videos like this wouldn't be necessary🤷 but this is 2023 or at the time of this video 2019 where people just want information handed to them so I guess maybe they could be necessary because people are too lazy to do their own research and testing.🤦
Rail steel is typically about 70 points of carbon (0.7%) but has manganese added. The manganese makes it a work hardening steel; the more it is worked, the harder it gets. The more train wheels run over it; the harder it becomes.
Using it for an anvil means that the more you beat on it, the harder it gets.
Oh really! Good to know! :) Didn't knew manganese had that effect!
Its more complicated than that. My recollection is that in small amounts Mn makes it "crumbly", but once you hit 12% it makes it very tough and abrasion resistant
www.ssab.com/company/newsroom/media-archive/2015/7/31/why-hardox-550-beats-12-manganese-steel-and-500-brinell-steel-in-wear-parts
so eventually it will become brittle? like will it suddenly snap in half in a few years or does it soften again after inactivity?? or is it a super slow rate or... what
@@patrickpitz1879 I assume it becomes brittle like everything that becomes hard will crack instead of bend and than eventually replaced with new
@@patrickpitz1879 No, it's extremely tough. At least the metallurgy for it is coming out of the mill the rail is made in. Rail has to be both tough and decently hard due to the incredible demands placed on it by 200 tons of locomotive and who knows how many 150 ton wagons said locomotive is hauling. If it was too brittle, it would literally snap under the incredible demands. Cast iron was originally used for rail in the first days of railroading but proved to be too brittle for the task. In truth, steel rail is some of the most precisely made steel out there. It definitely has a good amount of give though. If you've ever seen pictures or come across rail laid out for replacement, you'll notice that the rail seems all noodly and bendy before they slot it into the ties. It really is amazing stuff all things considered.
That’s interesting, it’s extra thick AND higher carbon content. That must be why it’s so tough to cut through railroad track.
Thanks again Paul :)
Good info. Not only on the steel, but also the tests to determine steel quality.
Thank you my friend :)
Two comments; one, that is a sweet looking mini sledge! Two, it would be neat to see how that piece of track works as a fire steel.
Another great video, my friend. Very informative, and a great demonstration of testing metal for hardness. These may be useful techniques for anyone making knives out of old files, for example. Thanks very much for sharing this.
Yeah! :) Thanks again man you'r always too kind :) :)
I really appreciate the video here. I just picked up a piece of rail to turn it into an anvil and it's good to know that it will probably stand up to the abuse of being an anvil. Great video!
Folks been using track for an anvil since forever. And it works really well. Even better if you have a way to plane a nice flat on it
Your education video are amazing😁👌
Thank you my friend :) :)
Awezome now i know i can harden the mini anvil im making so thank you man. As for the lost wax casting, metal canister, right type of plaster and the right temperature schedule for the kiln. There are a lot of great tutorials on youtube for this :)
Yeah I'm pretty sure I watched most of them as now :') Thank you man!
Hope you figure something out, I wish you the best of luck good sir :)
This video was awesome it was very informative, and it gave me a great idea with what to do with a small piece of track I have in the shop. Sorry to hear about the lost wax video. But keep up the good work your videos are always very inspirational thanks again and take care my friend.
Thank you alot my friend :) Too kind! keep up the good work :)
Super awesome. I love railroad stuff
Thanks brother :)
We received a rail test report for our rail and it consists of:
- Carbon 0.785% - Manganese 1.07% - Phosphorus 0.14% - Sulphur 0.09% - Silicone 0.43% - Copper 0.16% - Nickel 0.06% - Chromium 0.57% - Molybdenum 0.16% - Tin 0.08% - Vanadium 0.01 - Niobium 0.01% - Nitrogen 0.081% - Aluminum 0.004
The rest is pure iron. :)
Hope this helped!
Very helpful thank you
Lost wax casting will fail if you dont put the satincast under vaccum. It needs to be vacummed for 10 minutes or so until no bubbles then allowed to dry overnight. After that it need to ramp, the temp raises slowly to dry the satincast then it goes hot and hold. Wax will burn out then time to spin. Not easy, also, the satincast needs to be inside a steel sleeve. Otherwise it will fail.
Signed a Professional Goldsmith.
Thanks for your suggestion Jerimah :)
An excellent and well run set of tests.
Railroad steel contains manganese for better resistance against wear. It may be more difficult to sharpen.
Did a couple of jobs for Vic Rail hardening rail frogs using sheet explosive. It works very well. Basically the pressure wave and heat from the detonating explosive heats the wear surface of the frog and the pressure compresses the surface. The effect is to provide a harder denser surface profile that withstands the wear of the wheels and doubles the life of the frog. Good fun.
Sounds like good fun!! Neat process.
This is pretty great to know. I saw another guy attempt to harden his track but he just heated up the whole top part and threw it in a tub of water. Didn't seem to work too well the way he did it.
RR rail is a minimum of .070 points carbon... the larger the track, the higher the carbon content... up to .095 RR Track has a high manganese content which makes it tough as well... Track is annealed as it is rolled, it work hardens under the train wheels, but can be heat treated for hardness... It makes great knives.... Most mining track and small gauge rails are NOT hardenable, but actual Railroad rail is
Oh awesome! I've been wondering this for quite some time, actually.
1:45 steel asmr xD
Nice video
Haha :') Thank you
Wouldnt quenching it in oil be better than water for hardening due to carbon properties
Great demonstrations!
Thanks!!
I would sure hope the railroad track is hardenable seeing how the Japanese used it to made sword blades out of it at in the early 1900s because they wanted every officer in their military to carry a sword and making the traditional tamahagane was too time consuming and there weren't enough people making it in their shops to have enough steel on hand to fulfill such a large order.
The chunk of rail that you used is pretty old from the date stamped on the side and can be as low as 0.5% carbon. There are newer rail alloys where the carbon content is up to 0.9% for high speed rail.
I have an splitting axe 4.5kg which is made of railway track. How to harden it in which medium, oil or water. I felt the axe soft please reply
Someone told me that railroad tracks are (sometimes? Always?) made out of Mangalloy steel, which hardens under stress, and has a whole different reaction to heat treatment than regular steel
I heard that too! Works harden steel. I have no idea if mine is like that :) got pretty hard with water quench anyway
Black Beard Projects I've managed to forge a chameleon-shaped herb chopper out of a piece of tramrails before I knew what it (most likely) was, the heat treat on that seemed to work well too.. Trying to forge a larger piece of the same rails later however proved very difficult.. Guess the moral of the story is that steel is weird :p
Way late to this but thanks for the video!! This was full of good tests and great results!! What type of bandsaw was that you were using? That looks like a good saw for a home shop.
Cool thanks for sharing.
Love your videos man
Thanks man! :D
Usefull experiment my friend.
Thank you brother :)
Ho forgiato un kukri con un pezzo di binario, l'ho temprato in olio ed è venuto fuori un gran bel coltello
Mild steel can be hardened a little bit, or more if something like "super-quench" is used.It won't get as hard as higher carbon steel, of course. The old dogma is not accurate and it's important to know that mild steel can be used for tools in an emergency, under certain conditions.
Grande! Sei forte Gader! 👍👍👍
Haha! :') Grazie caro :)
Buono a sapersi, potrà tornare veramente utile.
Lo spero ;) Grazie
Can you maybe make a knive out of railroad track steel ,just try :)
Interesting, and good to know. So, are you now going to harden your new railroad track anvil?
I don't think ;) Not going to use it as a real anvil since I have the big one. Thanks!
Why did you call it lost wax casting? They use it most of the times in making bronze and sometimes brass and copper castings..... Mostly Bronze statues and such as brass and copper statues that have a lot of detail is not done as much, but it is certainly not lost. The foam casting one on the other hand is a lost casting due to the fact it is burning foam and extremely toxic and not to mention leaves a rather poor casting and can cause bubble due to the gases created.
Nice
Thank you!
Please make a bowei knife from a railroad truk
Yeah man I'll try to make something cool with a piece of track when I have time :) Thank you for the suggestion!
estou assustado!!!!! meu like foi o 666!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! e isso significa... nada. rigorosamente nada. muito bom.
ARGENTINA 🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷✌✌💪🖒🖒
Journeyman TIG welder here and well versed in metallurgy, the RR track is made from different alloys, but tend to run .70% carbon to .80%, called 90 UTS rail or Grade 880. A .45% and higher carbon content will get quite hard. RR track has to be high carbon, the train wheel is 1050 or 1155 steel so the RR track must be harder, or it will deform, disastrously if heavily trafficked. Understand the track is not fully hardened or it wouldn't bend or machine. It is so thick that trying to heat treat it would only succeed in making it hard to about 1/8-1/4" deep, depending on sectional density. Cut a piece of track with a torch and try to cut into the melted area, it will ruin your blade.
ispatguru.com/rails-and-rail-steel/
Most RR spikes are .30% and not very hardenable, but there are some that were .6-8% and definitely hardenable. Only way to tell is to heat treat and see.
Just FYI, steel bed frame angles are like 1080 steel as well.
No shit? I've thrown away so many bed rails, wtf!
First
1st
Eai pçr
Eu sou o unico brasileiro aqui né ?
I never understood why videos like this are even necessary. Google has been around for quite some time and a quick Google search will tell you that most rail track is made of 1084 carbon steel. Although they are hardened at different rates 1084 can be harden to many different and a wide range of hardness. And is not only a great knife steel but very forgiving for the beginners in metal fab and knife making. Some of the newer track has as much as 0.9% carbon and can be hardened up to about 55 Rockwell and perfectly suitable for knives. If more people would stop listening to the hype and all the keyboard warriors that think they know everything; saying it is not hard or hardenable; and instead start doing some of their own research and testing of their own like I did; videos like this wouldn't be necessary🤷 but this is 2023 or at the time of this video 2019 where people just want information handed to them so I guess maybe they could be necessary because people are too lazy to do their own research and testing.🤦
Ma sei italiano 😂😂