One of the more famous "Loyalist Americans" was General Sir John Stuart (no relation), who commanded the British Army against the French at the Battle of Maida in southern Italy on, ironically, 4th July 1806. Maida (Vale) was one of the three British victories in the Napoleonic Wars that had an area of London named after it.
John Butler, the Cdr of Butler's Rangers, a domestic terrorist in upstate New York, but a war hero in Canada. PS, glad to see you put together a brief on this little know subject..
@@redcoathistory Moreover, a ggreatgrandfather, was a member of the Lincoln Welland regiment and fought at Lundy's Lane during the War of 1812, where he was wounded. Received a land granti n Southwestern Ontario. I live in London, Ontario.
The Battle of Kings Mountain was Americans vs Americans. Two of my ancestors were loyalists. They stayed here and moved to the Tennessee frontier after the Revolution.
Never really thought much on this topic until I discovered a single player board game from white dog games called, “don’t tread on me,” where you play through through the revolutionary war from the British/Loyalist perspective. History will always be simplified for the masses - for practical reasons, but like anything else it’s nice to remember that like anything else the conflict was much more nuanced
@anthonytroisi6682 probably but he was just a colonial militia officer. Back in those days a man had to be wealthy to purchase a commission if it was available in the regiment's billet meaning a position was open.
I was never interested in the American Revolution because it was always Disneyfied into one dimensional, sacarine propaganda, but the real history is truly fascinating.
If you haven’t, check out “Washington’s Immortal’s by Patrick K. O’Donnel.” It heavily quotes soldiers letters of the time, and knocks the Hollywood sparkle right off the whole war. As a former soldier myself, the realities described seriously could be placed into the “nightmare fuel” category for me. It’s a very eye opening read.
Shout-out to my 5th grade teacher, Mrs. Harris! She made me absolutely fall in love with history via the way she taught the American revolution. We did standard stuff like vocab and dates and names, but what REALLY stuck out to like 10-year old me was- as mentioned here- a sort of reenactment. As we progressed through the lesson plan, she had us keep little journals, in *character* as soldiers OR civilians in the midst of the Revolution. So, our class had at any given time an assortment of loyalists and patriots, all with our own unique perspectives and understandings on the conflict, with like, a journal entry for summer and one for winter of each year of the revolution, or whatever- I don't remember exactly, but there were definitely multiple entries. It was so fun, and I completely forgot about it until just now!
Hatfield was actually one of those British sergeants who was promoted to be a Provincial officer, straight from sergeant to captain. Not just a sergeant in the 4th Regiment of Foot, but also the director of their band of music.
There's an argument that the revolution was really the first American civil war. This was fascinating. Now living in Canada, I was aware that many American loyalists fought for the British and some of my associates are descended from those loyalists who came to Canada. I was not truly aware of how many there were and how fluid and complicated it was. The seizure of loyalist private property seems particularly agreigous in light of English common law property rights but I guess after a conflict these things are conveniently forgotten. Great video.
I see it as more correctly described as the third English Civil War after the wars of the roses and the war between Charles I and parliament. It was a war between countrymen for control of the governance of a territory, classic civil war definition
I live in Pensacola, FLorida, which was heavily defended by Loyalists, Creek Indians, German hired troops and the Regular British Army. We have a large mounted statue of General Bernardo Galvez and a bust of the same Spanish Officer, but there isn’t even a plaque honoring the Loyalists that defended the town. That is in complete contrast to the Regiment of Royal Americans that defended the town from the French, Spanish and Indians and their great reputation defending this Frontier of the Empire.
Thanks a lot for the info. That is a shame. Did you see my film on the siege of Pensacola? Its i. my "redcoats in America" playlist that you may enjoy.
@@redcoathistoryit was how I found your channel. I was researching the battle after finding out my 6th great grandfather was the quartermaster of the Pennsylvania Loyalists. May have been responsible for the powder magazine that exploded
So glad to see some AWI videos! To really understand the British army during the war read “With Zeal and with bayonets only” and Mark Urban”s “Fusiliers”.
I love the way you lightened up the subject right out of the gate. That was excellently done! Have a fish and chips in a warm beer to reward yourself, limey!!
I agree with Kennedy, great humorous intro. Many thanks for your guest, Todd Braisted. His input is fabulous and very informative!! BRAVO ZULU for this content..👍
Thanks a lot. Interestingly so far this video has lost me subscribers so I guess not everyone understands my sense of humour - I’m glad that at least you guys do 👍🏻
@@redcoathistory It's not warm - it's cellar cool. Chilled beer is an abomination, almost as bad as a fridge fresh Cotes de Rhône rouge. Think on - the best beer in the world IPA, was produced for Redcoats and well before any refrigeration.
@@redcoathistory Check out the burning of Falmouth by Captain Mowatt... its now known as Portland Maine (my hometown) So in reprisal for the ambush at Lexington/Concord, the crown sent a Captain Mowatt and a flotilla of Gunships to Casco Bay, and bombarded Portland. They burned it to the ground. The city struck its colors, and Maine was loyalist for the rest of the war. Then, as more states went into rebellion, loyalists from all over the northeast fled to Maine and reestablished themselves. Yet, people mostly got along, and got on with life. In fact, General Henry Knox wss married into the English aristocracy, and although he was the artillery commander for General Washington, he protected loyalists in his wife's family's dominion. Which is now "Knox County" in Coastal Maine.
I grew up in Loyalist country in Eastern Ontario on the St Lawrence River. It was the first European settlement west of Montreal, and became home to New York State militia and British regulars & families, plus a Scottish Reg. sent over to bulk them out, so mainly Scottish in make up. Celtic fiddling and bagpipes are still common there east to Atlantic Canada. Their sons had to fight the Americans again in an attempted invasion in 1813 in the Battle of Cryslers' Farm. Later in life I lived in another Loyalist enclave in New Brunswick on the modern border with Maine. Some of the buildings in St. Andrews were moved there from the USA by barge from across the bay at the mouth of the St. Croix River.
I could tell right away this was gonna be a good one! Here in the Carolinas, I grew up around lots of Tory stuff, including the Tory Oak in Wilkesboro, where they used to hang men that wouldn't join the Rebels. Also, glad to hear you are covering Ferguson. What a badass that guy was! People nowadays don't realize it was really a civil war, and people had to decide what to do in real time. I'm a proud American, but for me those Loyalists were heroes. Of course the winners write the history books.... Thanks for another great one, Chris!
Thanks Ryan. It is certainly a fascinating and complext conflict that Im only just starting to get my head around. Lots more content to come on the Revolution.
Sorry, David. Upper Canada didn't exist until the Constitution Act of 1791. As Mr. Braisted said, during the War of Independence what are now Ontario and Quebec composed (along with most of what is now Michigan) the Province of Quebec, as it had been known officially since the Royal Proclamation of 1763. This followed the 1760 French capitulation of Montreal, marking the end of the Seven Years War in what is now Canada. Upper and Lower Canada were created in 1791 by dividing the Province of Quebec at the Ottawa River. The names would change again in 1841 with the creation of the Province of Canada, with Upper Canada becoming Canada West and Lower Canada becoming Canada East. Finally, with Confederation in 1867, Canada West became the Province of Ontario, and Canada East returned to being the Province of Quebec. So there is a very long and storied history of Canadians not knowing if they're Angus or Agnes.@davidlowry8765
Here is something that most people who haven't served in never think of: Soldiers and Sailors are not recruited from the political class. Those of us who end up as political veterans usually didn't get the political part until later in life. I served for four years, three of them at sea on a destroyer. And all that time, I do not recall having a single conversation with a shipmate about what Congress was doing. Young man join up for one purpose only: to keep men with guns out of their mother's backyard. They are going to join whichever side they think our defending their mother's backyard. And that's it. Union soldiers, Confederate soldiers, colonial soldiers, provincial soldiers...the vast majority of them had no deeper purpose than that when they picked a side. Yes, it is unthinkable today to think of a soldier switching sides. But you have to understand, we're never fighting in our homeland. That's true for America and England. None of our mother's backyards are in Kandahar. So no, that doesn't happen these days. But back then, when the war was here on our soil... I imagine it happened quite a bit.
I thought I knew the Revolution pretty well, but there is so much untold about the Loyalists. All we are taught is school is Benedict Arnold. Please do mor of these stories. I have read some about this ,,,but this is great.
Great interview! The more I learn about the AWI the more I think I would have been a Loyalist, even though my ancestors fought and died for Washington.
Top notch, thanks Chris. Todd Braisted was a brilliantly knowledgeable guest too, fascinating stuff! Oh look, it's warm beer o'clock in Blighty. Wonder what I'm going to have for supper.....
@doctorbritain9632 something many people forget. If the King wanted something, it had to go through Parliament. He could make a law, but it needed Parliament's approval.
The Amercans appealed directly to the king asking him to act in a way that would override parliament. The king respecting the constitutional settlement would not do so, kind of ironic considering the subsequent American propoganda about the tyrant king.
There is certain irony that the rebels went cap in hand to an absolutist French monarchy from whom they had not long been saved. This in order to fight the parliamentarian controlled monarchy that had saved them.
My 7th great-grandfather James Gorsline (aka Goslin or Gosling) was a Loyalist who refused to sign the Oath of Allegiance in Beekman, NY. He and several others were sent to Exeter, NH, but most of those returned to the Beekman area after a few months. He continued to talk smack about the independence cause until they tossed him onto a prison ship on the Esopus River for three weeks. After that, he emerged and agreed to sign. He never showed up on the court records after that and stayed in New York the rest of his life. His daughter Elizabeth married my 6th great-grandfather after the war-he had moved from Maine to New York to settle on his land grant for his seven years of service in the Continental Army. I wonder what James thought of his son-in-law?
Very entertaining & enjoyed Tom's insightful knowledge! Looking forward to the Tarleton video - another Liverpool connection was Robert Morris, "Financier of the Revolution" for the Continental Congress.
Love the jokes and humor! It makes a potentially firey topic (for those that only read the title before commenting) light-hearted and interesting. With all jokes aside, the Revolution was brutal when it came down to American vs American. No mercy. It was very much a civil war.
Fantastically viewable and the educational content was super , Todd’s knowledge , clear love of the subject and fluency of presentation made the 34 minutes just fly by , shall watch a few more times to absorb the huge mass of fascinating info , love your method of finding Experts and letting them do the Talking . 👏👏👍. Looking forward to the follow up episodes you promised 🙏👍
@@incognito9292 "English" is a bastardized Germanic dialect. The English didn't invent it, their conquerors forced it upon them. 😅 maybe you should switch to some proto Celtic language?! You can lay claim to that all day.
My great.......grandfather Samuel F. Waddington was in the Loyal Volunteers of the City of New York. He mainly brewed beer for the British Army in New York City. He went to Halifax, NS, and then back home to England eventually. His brothers stayed in New York City. (See the Rutgers v Waddington Case.)
Great Video, as usual. You should also make a video on Lord Rawdon. Perhaps less flamboyant than Tarleton, Ferguson, and Simcoe, but most probably a more effective military leader!
Fun fact, during the American Revolution the Jewish community in Britain created a prayer that pretty much asked for their brothers across the pond to get their heads back on straight & rejoin the empire as loyal subjects.
Nick from HistoryBuffs, in his 'The Patriot' review gave me (not British or American, directly) a little insight into the complexities of the American Revolution- far from simple binaries of good vs evil, in who the players were- & the idea of how many 'loyalists' there were...
I used to watch your early Zulu War videos and the American War of Independence videos caught my eye back to your channel. Anything on the AWI or War of 1812 would be very much welcomed here is the US market. Good job.
One thought, and I know I for one would help out, would you entertain a trip to the States to do on the ground battle reports. The possibilities are endless. French and Indian War sites, AWI, War of 1812. Some are lost but many are in very good protected status in both the US and Canada. Your on the ground Zulu War videos gave someone like me who most likely won’t get there a great feel for the battles.
Marvelous content. My Gx5 grandfather from South Carolina and his brothers fought in the Kings Rangers. His father came from Germany so it was natural that they were Loyalists. After all the English King was German! (Hanoverian). After the war they migrated into Georgia and Alabama. He was captured and was kept on a prison ship in Savannah, but survived and was fred when Archibald campbell took the city. He named his 1st born son after campbell and its still a common name in my family. He may have changed sides late in the war, according to his pension application when he was in his 90's, but I suspect that was fabrication
It’s always important when talking about the “American Revolution” to remember that the “Revolution” and the Revolutionary War were two different things. The American Revolution as a political phenomenon had already been ongoing for years before fighting actually started, and it continued for years after the British surrendered. Looking at the actual places where the Loyalists units were recruited from, and comparing them with the places in which the Revolution was actually happening is pretty interesting.
Frederick Robinson was a Virginian. He fought as part of the Loyal American Regiment. He would later serve in the 17th and 38th regiments. After the war he became a general. He later commanded a brigade in the 5th Division in Spain at Vittoria, Bidossa and San Sebastien. He later governed Tobago. He retired and settled in Brighton.
@@redcoathistory This would be Frederick Philipse Robinson. While his dad had been a Virginian, after the French & Indian War he settled in New York, on the Hudson River, very near West Point. Robinson's journal (a recollection, written in the 19th Century) exists in Canada today, where he also served against the Americans. He was 14 when he received his ensign's commission in the Loyal American Regiment, and 15 when he led men of the 17th Regiment of Foot in his first battle. He was taken prisoner five months later at the taking of Stony Point.
I think it’s nearer 30% Loyalist 40-50% Rebel and 20-30% keeping their head down and hoping it would all go away. There was massive immigration into the Canada territories after the war
The reality is that both sides were minorities. The majority of the population considered themselves English and did not want political separation from the motherland, but they also were sympathetic to the arguments of the more moderate revolutionaries.
Understandable as England continues to slowly change itself into George Orwell's Airstrip One. The 5 regiments of the American Establishment, unlike the provincial regiments, were equivalent to regulars.
I am a bit surprised that there isn't a mention of Sir John Johnson and his family, their close connections with the Mohawk, due to his father marrying a high ranking Mohawk girl as well as the lead of the Indian Department and the raising of a regiment that he led was an important part of the New York Loyalist history and the early war.
Thanks some prominent American loyalists include Benjamin halowell a captain in the royal navy in the napoleonic war. Delancy who was killed at Waterloo. David Octerloney who defeated the Gurkhas.
I served in the British army vowing allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth when I enlisted..... I think the Royal family should be abolished now, Queen Elizabeth was a one off the best queen in our history , I've met her and the then prince Charles.... Charles isn't my King he's a key senior member of the WEF, his father Prince Phillip said he'd like to come back after his death as a virus and wipe out most of humanity.... Depopulation is an aim of the WEF and a life of misery for the survivors..... Half of Canada parliament including it's prime minister are WEF as are many of the British parliament including our prime mister
Loyalist have seemed to be traitors or bad guys. It really depends on the time, it seems that a lot of loyalist vs patriots, in my opinion had other issues. I think also there might have been more switching sides to avoid prisons, than has been reported. Also, I think their pocketbooks played a point in which side you were on. I think a lot of times there were old land claims etc., that the wounds never healed from, weather it was a feud of some kind or court ruling.
I'll preface by saying that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool American patriot who has even memorized the entire Declaration Of Independence, and I've always held a very negative view of the "Tories". Having said that, and being no less patriotic, I must say your presentation was quite fascinating. My view of the Loyalists is now, I think, better informed and nuanced, and I do have sympathy for those Americans who made that difficult decision. I obviously can't know what decision I'd have made if I were living back then, but I can sympathize with folks who simply wanted to stay loyal to the crown and live in peace. Thanks for this video! (edit) I'd like to add one thing here. I don't think the Revolution was primarily over "taxation without representation". If you read our Declaration of Independence, taxation is just given a very brief mention, and is only of the many grievances listed. Just saying....
@@redcoathistory I know your ex military mate. I dont know if you ever worked with them but the Green Berets in the US hold there lineage from Rogers Rangers
Couple of points. -Be careful when using the term "American". America was not yet a country so "American" referred to where you lived, not your Nationality. - The second is that prior to the Revolution, the primary role of the British Army in the Americas, was to defend the colonists, there. Those colonists who volunteered to serve were defending their own people and property more than tbey were serving the interests of the British government. - And a freebie, Revolutionary propaganda liked to focus on King George, but Britain had a Parliament and nothing could be done without the approval of Parliament and the funding that Parliament granted. G3 was not exactly a medieval despot. Our mutual ancestors executed Charles 1 and booted outJames 1 to make that clear.
The “rebel” propaganda pre 1776 was very much anti parliament and appealing to a “benevolent” king George. Which aimed to get their demands met and not sever the union with the mother country. I would recommend David Mcholoughs “1776” for an excellent snapshot of the sentiment of that time.
yeh, that was a good one... more of this guy.. (Sibley - from Bradpole, Dorset - arrived Salem 1629, 2 forebears from Sutton in Learned's Regiment, later became 3rd Continental Infantry... subsequent forebear service in 42nd MA Vols in the war against slave states, and then my service... all Army Infantrymen...)
Allthough I am greatful to live in an independt country as a history buff it has always been interesting to learn the pionts of view from the Colonists on both sides. Of course most of us know one of the causes of the Revolutionary War of Indepence was taxation with repsentaion. The Loyalists might have believed it was thier duty to pay taxes to the English crown be and were not eager to take up arms against Red Coats from the UK just 12 years after fighting alongside them during the French and Indian wars. They saw them as comrades in arms and may have even had cousins and brothers among the Red Coats. And Americans would not technically be considered a separate nationality group until 1783 and even then America was a melting pot. Even coloinsts a lot of colonists born in America could not bring themslves to break away from British rule and culture so many surviving Loyalists went to English speaking pronvinces in Canada.
Yep... The British Army was fightinf with and for the Colonists during the F&I Wars... Then the British Parliament had the gall to suggest that the Colonists have some small part in paying for it all. The "War of Colonial Ingratitude" indeed... 😂😂
My family evacuated New York after the revolution. Recieved a Land Grant in the bay of Quinte area of Ontario 🇨🇦 along with 500 folks. Worked out great. Would like to visit my great great great great grandfather final resting place in New York State
Loyalists had a huge impact on Canada where I live. Loyalist militia, and the British Army kept the U.S. out of Canada during the War of 1812. Canada of course still has the Monarchy.
The British Prime Minister, Parliament, and The Crown treated British North America (Canada) with kid gloves in 1867, after learning bitter lessons from the American Revolutionary War. Had the British treated the American colonials with the same leniency as they did Canada, the 13 American colonies likely would have remained loyal. At the least there would not have been the critical number of American colonials to start a rebellion. The British learned the hard way that, "My way or the highway" is not always the best solution. The British learned that a large colony becoming independent was not fatal to the British Empire. Profitable trade commenced between Great Britain and the new United States. Thus, as the Canadians expressed their desire for independence, the British government and The Crown welcomed the request and held the door open for the new Canada.
Granted your Indian tour is over, but another request for something about the European Regiments of the EIC... recruitment, training, active service, the white mutiny, discharge-did many stay on in India? etc
Many slaves escaped and joined the British in exchange for freedom for them and their families. After the war many went to Nova Scotia or England. Many later were settled in Sierra Leonie which is why the capital of that land is called Freetown.
Actually, not really. The term "American" was the one most commonly used. It was a distinct culture. That is reflected in the names of the Provincial units: American Legion, American Volunteers, Loyal American Regiment, King's American Regiment, King's American Dragoons, etc. Certainly people considered themselves from the province they came from, but by 1775, the idea of an America (I am NOT saying a United States of America) was very much in place.
Both the british and the colonists considered the colonists American well before the war, there was already a sort of separation between the identities and culture going back to the 1600s. When Ben Franklin was working in London as a youngster the native Londoners would refer to him as an American, he wrote about this in his book. There's also other references to Yankees and Americans elsewhere.
Ultimately this was a civil war. When the war began the revolutionaries declared themselves free born Englishmen
One of the more famous "Loyalist Americans" was General Sir John Stuart (no relation), who commanded the British Army against the French at the Battle of Maida in southern Italy on, ironically, 4th July 1806. Maida (Vale) was one of the three British victories in the Napoleonic Wars that had an area of London named after it.
Great info - I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks
As an expat living in the US (and someone who chose to become an American in 2022) this video is right up my alley. 😂
Ha ha nice one. I really enjoyed making the video. Where in the USA are you?
John Butler, the Cdr of Butler's Rangers, a domestic terrorist in upstate New York, but a war hero in Canada. PS, glad to see you put together a brief on this little know subject..
@@redcoathistory Northern VA. Pretty close to where General Braddock set out as a matter of fact.
Oh nice. I haven’t been to that area at all. Hopefully one day!
A few years back, I did the genealogy search and discovered my family came from Plainfield Conneticut as Loyalists. Several were in Butlers Rangers.
A fascinating family story - thanks a lot for sharing.
Be proud of that!
@@redcoathistory Moreover, a ggreatgrandfather, was a member of the Lincoln Welland regiment and fought at Lundy's Lane during the War of 1812, where he was wounded. Received a land granti n Southwestern Ontario. I live in London, Ontario.
@@Spindacre I am!! Could be an UEL, but too old to pursue.
Mine were in Butler’s Rangers as well! They were from upstate New York.
The Battle of Kings Mountain was Americans vs Americans. Two of my ancestors were loyalists. They stayed here and moved to the Tennessee frontier after the Revolution.
A fascinating family story - thanks a lot for sharing. I plan to talk a little more about Kings mountain in future videos.
And that battle was *not* primarily decided by rifles.
Hi fellow UE. We evacuated to ontario Canada after the revolution. Was in NY colony 1701
Never really thought much on this topic until I discovered a single player board game from white dog games called, “don’t tread on me,” where you play through through the revolutionary war from the British/Loyalist perspective. History will always be simplified for the masses - for practical reasons, but like anything else it’s nice to remember that like anything else the conflict was much more nuanced
As a UEL descendent I loved this video. Ancestors in Peter’s QLR, Sir Johnson’s KRRNY, Pennsylvania Loyalists, King’s Rangers, etc.
I had 3 family members all in the Butler's Rangers, they escaped to Canada and were blacklisted from the US
Mine were in Butler’s Rangers as well.
George Washington did serve and fight for the English Crown during the French and Indian Wars as an Officer in the British Colonial Army.
Didn't Washington resent, in his youth, the fact he wasn't given a commission in the British Army?
@anthonytroisi6682 probably but he was just a colonial militia officer. Back in those days a man had to be wealthy to purchase a commission if it was available in the regiment's billet meaning a position was open.
I was never interested in the American Revolution because it was always Disneyfied into one dimensional, sacarine propaganda, but the real history is truly fascinating.
If you haven’t,
check out “Washington’s Immortal’s by Patrick K. O’Donnel.”
It heavily quotes soldiers letters of the time, and knocks the Hollywood sparkle right off the whole war.
As a former soldier myself, the realities described seriously could be placed into the “nightmare fuel” category for me.
It’s a very eye opening read.
Shout-out to my 5th grade teacher, Mrs. Harris! She made me absolutely fall in love with history via the way she taught the American revolution. We did standard stuff like vocab and dates and names, but what REALLY stuck out to like 10-year old me was- as mentioned here- a sort of reenactment. As we progressed through the lesson plan, she had us keep little journals, in *character* as soldiers OR civilians in the midst of the Revolution. So, our class had at any given time an assortment of loyalists and patriots, all with our own unique perspectives and understandings on the conflict, with like, a journal entry for summer and one for winter of each year of the revolution, or whatever- I don't remember exactly, but there were definitely multiple entries. It was so fun, and I completely forgot about it until just now!
I love Mrs Harris already!
We kept the sarcasm.
It was just the tea and King we tossed. LOL
Then our taxes went up, and never got lower than when we lived under the king. But, FWEEDOM!!!!
@@Mikethemerciless11and the King was subject to Parliament. Hardly the absolutist, medieval despot that Revolutionary propaganda made him out to be.
@@Mikethemerciless11 LOL 😁😁😁
Plus all of our religious lunatics
Nah, we kept the tea too... just dumped a fuck load of that Cuban sugar into it
Loved the video. As a descendant of Captain John Hatfield (a loyalist) this was particularly interesting.
That’s great - thanks for sharing your family history. Glad you enjoyed it.
Hatfield was actually one of those British sergeants who was promoted to be a Provincial officer, straight from sergeant to captain. Not just a sergeant in the 4th Regiment of Foot, but also the director of their band of music.
There's an argument that the revolution was really the first American civil war. This was fascinating. Now living in Canada, I was aware that many American loyalists fought for the British and some of my associates are descended from those loyalists who came to Canada. I was not truly aware of how many there were and how fluid and complicated it was. The seizure of loyalist private property seems particularly agreigous in light of English common law property rights but I guess after a conflict these things are conveniently forgotten. Great video.
I see it as more correctly described as the third English Civil War after the wars of the roses and the war between Charles I and parliament. It was a war between countrymen for control of the governance of a territory, classic civil war definition
I live in Pensacola, FLorida, which was heavily defended by Loyalists, Creek Indians, German hired troops and the Regular British Army. We have a large mounted statue of General Bernardo Galvez and a bust of the same Spanish Officer, but there isn’t even a plaque honoring the Loyalists that defended the town. That is in complete contrast to the Regiment of Royal Americans that defended the town from the French, Spanish and Indians and their great reputation defending this Frontier of the Empire.
Thanks a lot for the info. That is a shame. Did you see my film on the siege of Pensacola? Its i. my "redcoats in America" playlist that you may enjoy.
It’s surprising, that nobody in Great Britain has put up a plaque to their dead in Pensacola. Biggest siege in the American Revolution.
@@redcoathistory I did watch the Pensacola video.
@@redcoathistoryit was how I found your channel. I was researching the battle after finding out my 6th great grandfather was the quartermaster of the Pennsylvania Loyalists. May have been responsible for the powder magazine that exploded
Destin > Pensacola 🦅 🇺🇸
So glad to see some AWI videos! To really understand the British army during the war read “With Zeal and with bayonets only” and Mark Urban”s “Fusiliers”.
I love the way you lightened up the subject right out of the gate. That was excellently done!
Have a fish and chips in a warm beer to reward yourself, limey!!
Ha ha glad you enjoyed it...I'm just sitting here crying into my warm beer wishing I had an American passport! I can dream...;-)
I agree with Kennedy, great humorous intro. Many thanks for your guest, Todd Braisted. His input is fabulous and very informative!! BRAVO ZULU for this content..👍
Thanks a lot. Interestingly so far this video has lost me subscribers so I guess not everyone understands my sense of humour - I’m glad that at least you guys do 👍🏻
@@redcoathistory It's not warm - it's cellar cool. Chilled beer is an abomination, almost as bad as a fridge fresh Cotes de Rhône rouge. Think on - the best beer in the world IPA, was produced for Redcoats and well before any refrigeration.
@@redcoathistory Sorry they got butt hurt and left.. As War Daddy said in FURY, "Ideals are peaceful, History is violent."
That was great, Chris. Thanks for enlisting Todd. You have a great facility to discover a period, enlist an expert, and let in run. Much respect ❤
Thanks Chris. Yeah, Todd was fantastic. He’ll be back to talk about Simcoe, Ferguson and Tarleton soon.
@@redcoathistoryYou gotta do something on Benjamin Church man. Just trust me and look him up. You'll be extraordinarily impressed.
@@redcoathistory Check out the burning of Falmouth by Captain Mowatt... its now known as Portland Maine (my hometown)
So in reprisal for the ambush at Lexington/Concord, the crown sent a Captain Mowatt and a flotilla of Gunships to Casco Bay, and bombarded Portland. They burned it to the ground. The city struck its colors, and Maine was loyalist for the rest of the war. Then, as more states went into rebellion, loyalists from all over the northeast fled to Maine and reestablished themselves. Yet, people mostly got along, and got on with life.
In fact, General Henry Knox wss married into the English aristocracy, and although he was the artillery commander for General Washington, he protected loyalists in his wife's family's dominion. Which is now "Knox County" in Coastal Maine.
@@redcoathistoryFerguson, leading guys from New Jersey, supposedly stole my family’s cow and quilts.
I grew up in Loyalist country in Eastern Ontario on the St Lawrence River. It was the first European settlement west of Montreal, and became home to New York State militia and British regulars & families, plus a Scottish Reg. sent over to bulk them out, so mainly Scottish in make up.
Celtic fiddling and bagpipes are still common there east to Atlantic Canada. Their sons had to fight the Americans again in an attempted invasion in 1813 in the Battle of Cryslers' Farm.
Later in life I lived in another Loyalist enclave in New Brunswick on the modern border with Maine. Some of the buildings in St. Andrews were moved there from the USA by barge from across the bay at the mouth of the St. Croix River.
Fantastic interview Chris. Very informative. So many layers to this. Massive thanks to Todd and yourself.
Thanks a lot - Todd was amazing wasn't he? He will defintely be back I hope
Great talk and very informative! Shedding light on an area that many would rather ignore as it doesn’t fit the “ narrative “.
I could tell right away this was gonna be a good one! Here in the Carolinas, I grew up around lots of Tory stuff, including the Tory Oak in Wilkesboro, where they used to hang men that wouldn't join the Rebels. Also, glad to hear you are covering Ferguson. What a badass that guy was! People nowadays don't realize it was really a civil war, and people had to decide what to do in real time. I'm a proud American, but for me those Loyalists were heroes. Of course the winners write the history books.... Thanks for another great one, Chris!
Thanks Ryan. It is certainly a fascinating and complext conflict that Im only just starting to get my head around. Lots more content to come on the Revolution.
Yeah people who fought against democracy are heroes, just like those who fought ot maintain slavery.
my family were in a Highland regiment in Nova Scotia
In Ontario Canada we had Upper Canada Loyalist They were Americans that left the US and setup life in British North America
Sorry, Upper Canada Empire Loyalist.
Sorry, David. Upper Canada didn't exist until the Constitution Act of 1791. As Mr. Braisted said, during the War of Independence what are now Ontario and Quebec composed (along with most of what is now Michigan) the Province of Quebec, as it had been known officially since the Royal Proclamation of 1763. This followed the 1760 French capitulation of Montreal, marking the end of the Seven Years War in what is now Canada. Upper and Lower Canada were created in 1791 by dividing the Province of Quebec at the Ottawa River. The names would change again in 1841 with the creation of the Province of Canada, with Upper Canada becoming Canada West and Lower Canada becoming Canada East. Finally, with Confederation in 1867, Canada West became the Province of Ontario, and Canada East returned to being the Province of Quebec. So there is a very long and storied history of Canadians not knowing if they're Angus or Agnes.@davidlowry8765
One of my ancestors was a loyalist. Two of his brothers were killed at King's Mountain.
Here is something that most people who haven't served in never think of:
Soldiers and Sailors are not recruited from the political class. Those of us who end up as political veterans usually didn't get the political part until later in life.
I served for four years, three of them at sea on a destroyer. And all that time, I do not recall having a single conversation with a shipmate about what Congress was doing.
Young man join up for one purpose only: to keep men with guns out of their mother's backyard. They are going to join whichever side they think our defending their mother's backyard. And that's it.
Union soldiers, Confederate soldiers, colonial soldiers, provincial soldiers...the vast majority of them had no deeper purpose than that when they picked a side.
Yes, it is unthinkable today to think of a soldier switching sides. But you have to understand, we're never fighting in our homeland. That's true for America and England. None of our mother's backyards are in Kandahar. So no, that doesn't happen these days.
But back then, when the war was here on our soil... I imagine it happened quite a bit.
You always produce quality posts Chris, thank you from an Aussie Veteran.
Thanks a lot. That feedback means a lot and makes it all worthwhile.
I thought I knew the Revolution pretty well, but there is so much untold about the Loyalists. All we are taught is school is Benedict Arnold. Please do mor of these stories. I have read some about this ,,,but this is great.
Thanks a lot…yep lots more stories like this in the pipeline. Hopefully you will enjoy them also
Excellent take on all this. My people got land in Kentucky after serving as Rebels
Great interview! The more I learn about the AWI the more I think I would have been a Loyalist, even though my ancestors fought and died for Washington.
Top notch, thanks Chris. Todd Braisted was a brilliantly knowledgeable guest too, fascinating stuff! Oh look, it's warm beer o'clock in Blighty. Wonder what I'm going to have for supper.....
ha ha yes always beer o’clock ;-)
Many thanks to you and yours. You have actually been in combat and your perspective and observations are more respectable. Good one.
If the king had given a damn and had conceded to the colonial demands we could still be a British territory. History is fascinating.
The King had no say in the matter. His involvement is pure American propaganda. He could hardly take a piss without asking parliament first.
@doctorbritain9632 something many people forget. If the King wanted something, it had to go through Parliament. He could make a law, but it needed Parliament's approval.
The Amercans appealed directly to the king asking him to act in a way that would override parliament. The king respecting the constitutional settlement would not do so, kind of ironic considering the subsequent American propoganda about the tyrant king.
There is certain irony that the rebels went cap in hand to an absolutist French monarchy from whom they had not long been saved. This in order to fight the parliamentarian controlled monarchy that had saved them.
@@jekabsojarsulskis9740 I am American and I think parlament thats bad, not the King, I want a King
Excellent both of you. Nice see you Todd well done as always!!
Thank you Winston! There is more to come!
@@toddbraisted3 Looking forward to it.
My 7th great-grandfather James Gorsline (aka Goslin or Gosling) was a Loyalist who refused to sign the Oath of Allegiance in Beekman, NY. He and several others were sent to Exeter, NH, but most of those returned to the Beekman area after a few months. He continued to talk smack about the independence cause until they tossed him onto a prison ship on the Esopus River for three weeks. After that, he emerged and agreed to sign. He never showed up on the court records after that and stayed in New York the rest of his life. His daughter Elizabeth married my 6th great-grandfather after the war-he had moved from Maine to New York to settle on his land grant for his seven years of service in the Continental Army. I wonder what James thought of his son-in-law?
Very entertaining & enjoyed Tom's insightful knowledge! Looking forward to the Tarleton video - another Liverpool connection was Robert Morris, "Financier of the Revolution" for the Continental Congress.
Love the jokes and humor!
It makes a potentially firey topic (for those that only read the title before commenting) light-hearted and interesting.
With all jokes aside, the Revolution was brutal when it came down to American vs American. No mercy.
It was very much a civil war.
Watching this whilst travelling from Yorkshire to Wales. Excellent stuff. Thanks both.
Glad you enjoyed it mate. Todd was an incredibly knowledgable guest.
Brilliant listen, great guest Todd he was very informative and easy to communicate his points 👍
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks
I really enjoyed this love to see more
Great to hear, thanks a lot. Lots more in the pipeline.
Great stuff! Interesting, informative and looking forward to the future programs.
Not bad Lobsterback! I always enjoy your content. Keep up the good work
Nice one Chris 👌🏻
Fantastically viewable and the educational content was super , Todd’s knowledge , clear love of the subject and fluency of presentation made the 34 minutes just fly by , shall watch a few more times to absorb the huge mass of fascinating info , love your method of finding Experts and letting them do the Talking . 👏👏👍. Looking forward to the follow up episodes you promised 🙏👍
Glad you enjoyed it - Todd is one of my favourite guests ever and I hope to have him back on soon.
The Loyalists are not forgotten in Canada
Absolutely not. I know my ancestory well. Thanks
Liked that one guys much appreciated
Great video, and one of my favourite subjects!
GREAT EPISODE.
Thanks. I’ve got a few more Revolution videos in the pipeline that you may enjoy.
There is still a reserve regiment of the Canadian army called The "Queen's York Rangers (1st Americans)". Look them up.
Looking forward to this one. Some of my family were Loyalists. They had their property confiscated and spent some time in British North America. 🇬🇧
It's never too late to move to Canada
A fascinating family story - thanks a lot for sharing.
@@incognito9292 "English" is a bastardized Germanic dialect. The English didn't invent it, their conquerors forced it upon them. 😅 maybe you should switch to some proto Celtic language?! You can lay claim to that all day.
@incognito9292 the English didn't invent English, lol.
God save the King -an American
There is always two sides in the coin. Another top work mate, congrats, mr. Todd is a great communicator. Best regards bro.
Much appreciated - Todd was a fantastic guest. Glad you enjoyed it mate.
My great.......grandfather Samuel F. Waddington was in the Loyal Volunteers of the City of New York. He mainly brewed beer for the British Army in New York City. He went to Halifax, NS, and then back home to England eventually. His brothers stayed in New York City. (See the Rutgers v Waddington Case.)
Hi fellow UE
Great video! I find this topic fascinating even as a proud American. Well done and good luck in coming to the US!
Great Video, as usual. You should also make a video on Lord Rawdon. Perhaps less flamboyant than Tarleton, Ferguson, and Simcoe, but most probably a more effective military leader!
Fantastic video as always! Eager for the next!
Thanks again plenty more AWI videos in the pipeline.
Fun fact, during the American Revolution the Jewish community in Britain created a prayer that pretty much asked for their brothers across the pond to get their heads back on straight & rejoin the empire as loyal subjects.
Nick from HistoryBuffs, in his 'The Patriot' review gave me (not British or American, directly) a little insight into the complexities of the American Revolution- far from simple binaries of good vs evil, in who the players were- & the idea of how many 'loyalists' there were...
I used to watch your early Zulu War videos and the American War of Independence videos caught my eye back to your channel. Anything on the AWI or War of 1812 would be very much welcomed here is the US market. Good job.
Welcome back. Lots more AWI content in the pipeline...will eventually do more War of 1812.
One thought, and I know I for one would help out, would you entertain a trip to the States to do on the ground battle reports. The possibilities are endless. French and Indian War sites, AWI, War of 1812. Some are lost but many are in very good protected status in both the US and Canada. Your on the ground Zulu War videos gave someone like me who most likely won’t get there a great feel for the battles.
Marvelous content.
My Gx5 grandfather from South Carolina and his brothers fought in the Kings Rangers. His father came from Germany so it was natural that they were Loyalists. After all the English King was German! (Hanoverian).
After the war they migrated into Georgia and Alabama.
He was captured and was kept on a prison ship in Savannah, but survived and was fred when Archibald campbell took the city. He named his 1st born son after campbell and its still a common name in my family.
He may have changed sides late in the war, according to his pension application when he was in his 90's, but I suspect that was fabrication
A wonderful family story, thanks a lot for sharing.
@@redcoathistory thank you for all you present.
It is a rare thing when I learn something new on youtube history channels, but you always surprise me.
It’s always important when talking about the “American Revolution” to remember that the “Revolution” and the Revolutionary War were two different things.
The American Revolution as a political phenomenon had already been ongoing for years before fighting actually started, and it continued for years after the British surrendered.
Looking at the actual places where the Loyalists units were recruited from, and comparing them with the places in which the Revolution was actually happening is pretty interesting.
As the Gallic leader Brenus said: Woe to the vanquished.
Frederick Robinson was a Virginian. He fought as part of the Loyal American Regiment. He would later serve in the 17th and 38th regiments. After the war he became a general. He later commanded a brigade in the 5th Division in Spain at Vittoria, Bidossa and San Sebastien. He later governed Tobago. He retired and settled in Brighton.
I didn't know that. Will look him up. Thanks
@@redcoathistory This would be Frederick Philipse Robinson. While his dad had been a Virginian, after the French & Indian War he settled in New York, on the Hudson River, very near West Point. Robinson's journal (a recollection, written in the 19th Century) exists in Canada today, where he also served against the Americans. He was 14 when he received his ensign's commission in the Loyal American Regiment, and 15 when he led men of the 17th Regiment of Foot in his first battle. He was taken prisoner five months later at the taking of Stony Point.
I've heard 40% Loyalist 60 % Rebels.
I think it’s nearer 30% Loyalist 40-50% Rebel and 20-30% keeping their head down and hoping it would all go away.
There was massive immigration into the Canada territories after the war
The reality is that both sides were minorities.
The majority of the population considered themselves English and did not want political separation from the motherland, but they also were sympathetic to the arguments of the more moderate revolutionaries.
😂😂0:47 As a retired U.S. Military, 3rd Gen. Finnish-American, who’s a total Anglophile, I totally dug this video. One of your most intriguing.
Both were patriots. God bless!!!
Ha ha. Best to you 🫡
I'm visiting Camden, South Carolina this weekend to see the battlefield.
Fantastic - enjoy! Hopefully I’ll visit one day.
The Canadian province New Brunswick (next to Maine which it had been connected to) was "created" to provide land for loyalists
Great work!
Thankyou very much. Todd was an outstanding guest.
Good Americans = Canadians 😁
As one of your "southern neighbours," I'll not argue with that. 😁
@@gryph01 😊😊
I m also a Rev war reenactor and always point out it was a civil war in a revolution .
Understandable as England continues to slowly change itself into George Orwell's Airstrip One.
The 5 regiments of the American Establishment, unlike the provincial regiments, were equivalent to regulars.
Don’t worry most people in England are still against moving the country into some sort of Orwellian dystopia…
I am a bit surprised that there isn't a mention of Sir John Johnson and his family, their close connections with the Mohawk, due to his father marrying a high ranking Mohawk girl as well as the lead of the Indian Department and the raising of a regiment that he led was an important part of the New York Loyalist history and the early war.
That is an interesting point. For the loyalty to the British, many of the Mohawk were displaced to southern Ontario.
I was always wondering growing up . Thx for the history lesson
Any time!
Been a life -long U.K. Loyalist since 1968. Rather die than sell - out.
Top man!
Point.
Wow , never knew any of this history . Like many others only have the perception offered by Hollywood. Being an Englishman very heart warming.
Great episode
They were called the ‘civil’ by the Founding Fathers during the War of Independence;
Thanks some prominent American loyalists include Benjamin halowell a captain in the royal navy in the napoleonic war.
Delancy who was killed at Waterloo.
David Octerloney who defeated the Gurkhas.
Thanks - more fascianting people to look up for me there.
One of my favorite military history books “Rebels and Redcoats”. If you haven’t read it please do
My ancestors! God save the King and may Canada stay forever loyal.
Teacher's pet.
@@Flintlock1776 reckless class clown. But our nations are brothers and I’m happy to see that we can both be great :)
@@chalkwizard1292 Lol. Right on brother. Canada is awesome.
I served in the British army vowing allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth when I enlisted..... I think the Royal family should be abolished now, Queen Elizabeth was a one off the best queen in our history , I've met her and the then prince Charles.... Charles isn't my King he's a key senior member of the WEF, his father Prince Phillip said he'd like to come back after his death as a virus and wipe out most of humanity.... Depopulation is an aim of the WEF and a life of misery for the survivors..... Half of Canada parliament including it's prime minister are WEF as are many of the British parliament including our prime mister
Loyalist have seemed to be traitors or bad guys. It really depends on the time, it seems that a lot of loyalist vs patriots, in my opinion had other issues. I think also there might have been more switching sides to avoid prisons, than has been reported. Also, I think their pocketbooks played a point in which side you were on. I think a lot of times there were old land claims etc., that the wounds never healed from, weather it was a feud of some kind or court ruling.
I'll preface by saying that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool American patriot who has even memorized the entire Declaration Of Independence, and I've always held a very negative view of the "Tories". Having said that, and being no less patriotic, I must say your presentation was quite fascinating. My view of the Loyalists is now, I think, better informed and nuanced, and I do have sympathy for those Americans who made that difficult decision. I obviously can't know what decision I'd have made if I were living back then, but I can sympathize with folks who simply wanted to stay loyal to the crown and live in peace. Thanks for this video!
(edit) I'd like to add one thing here. I don't think the Revolution was primarily over "taxation without representation". If you read our Declaration of Independence, taxation is just given a very brief mention, and is only of the many grievances listed. Just saying....
Many thanks. I think your softening perspective is great and makes recording this episode worth while.
Great video Christian
Thanks mate
@@redcoathistory I know your ex military mate. I dont know if you ever worked with them but the Green Berets in the US hold there lineage from Rogers Rangers
Couple of points.
-Be careful when using the term "American". America was not yet a country so "American" referred to where you lived, not your Nationality.
- The second is that prior to the Revolution, the primary role of the British Army in the Americas, was to defend the colonists, there. Those colonists who volunteered to serve were defending their own people and property more than tbey were serving the interests of the British government.
- And a freebie, Revolutionary propaganda liked to focus on King George, but Britain had a Parliament and nothing could be done without the approval of Parliament and the funding that Parliament granted. G3 was not exactly a medieval despot. Our mutual ancestors executed Charles 1 and booted outJames 1 to make that clear.
The “rebel” propaganda pre 1776 was very much anti parliament and appealing to a “benevolent” king George. Which aimed to get their demands met and not sever the union with the mother country. I would recommend David Mcholoughs “1776” for an excellent snapshot of the sentiment of that time.
You mean James II, son of Charles II, and great-grandson of James I.
Could you do a video on George Washington and his service as a British provincial Colonial?
@@mitchellline4242 Thanks - could be interesting for the future.
yeh, that was a good one... more of this guy.. (Sibley - from Bradpole, Dorset - arrived Salem 1629, 2 forebears from Sutton in Learned's Regiment, later became 3rd Continental Infantry... subsequent forebear service in 42nd MA Vols in the war against slave states, and then my service... all Army Infantrymen...)
Brilliant thanks a lot for sharing.
Proud American 🇺🇸 that would have absolutely been a loyalist back in 1775!! I consider our two nations to be culturally synonymous.
Not anymore mate the way things are going are two great nations will be barely Anglo at this rate
Good for you mate! Bloody rebels.
American here. Proud descendant of United Empire Loyalists who removed to Canada after the Revolutionary War. Toujours Fidele!
Allthough I am greatful to live in an independt country as a history buff it has always been interesting to learn the pionts of view from the Colonists on both sides. Of course most of us know one of the causes of the Revolutionary War of Indepence was taxation with repsentaion. The Loyalists might have believed it was thier duty to pay taxes to the English crown be and were not eager to take up arms against Red Coats from the UK just 12 years after fighting alongside them during the French and Indian wars. They saw them as comrades in arms and may have even had cousins and brothers among the Red Coats. And Americans would not technically be considered a separate nationality group until 1783 and even then America was a melting pot. Even coloinsts a lot of colonists born in America could not bring themslves to break away from British rule and culture so many surviving Loyalists went to English speaking pronvinces in Canada.
Yep... The British Army was fightinf with and for the Colonists during the F&I Wars...
Then the British Parliament had the gall to suggest that the Colonists have some small part in paying for it all.
The "War of Colonial Ingratitude" indeed... 😂😂
A good many settled in Quebec's Eastern Townships/
Cantons-de-l' Est.
My family evacuated New York after the revolution. Recieved a Land Grant in the bay of Quinte area of Ontario 🇨🇦 along with 500 folks. Worked out great. Would like to visit my great great great great grandfather final resting place in New York State
Loyalists had a huge impact on Canada where I live. Loyalist militia, and the British Army kept the U.S. out of Canada during the War of 1812. Canada of course still has the Monarchy.
The British Prime Minister, Parliament, and The Crown treated British North America (Canada) with kid gloves in 1867, after learning bitter lessons from the American Revolutionary War. Had the British treated the American colonials with the same leniency as they did Canada, the 13 American colonies likely would have remained loyal. At the least there would not have been the critical number of American colonials to start a rebellion.
The British learned the hard way that, "My way or the highway" is not always the best solution. The British learned that a large colony becoming independent was not fatal to the British Empire. Profitable trade commenced between Great Britain and the new United States. Thus, as the Canadians expressed their desire for independence, the British government and The Crown welcomed the request and held the door open for the new Canada.
Granted your Indian tour is over, but another request for something about the European Regiments of the EIC... recruitment, training, active service, the white mutiny, discharge-did many stay on in India? etc
Making videos on American and British soldiers? Now that’s soldiering!
Many slaves escaped and joined the British in exchange for freedom for them and their families. After the war many went to Nova Scotia or England. Many later were settled in Sierra Leonie which is why the capital of that land is called Freetown.
Fort 96 in South Carolina got its name as was 96 miles to nearest town of Keowee.
Great interview. God there's so much more to say though.
Thanks. Luckily we have a few follow up episodes in the pipeline including a look at Tarleton and Simcoe. Watch this space.
Definitely looking forward to it.
Daft question, I'm sure, but did people of the time consider themselves "American," or did that come later?
Hi mate - That’s not a daft question actually…Im also new to this conflict and am still working out the correct terminology etc.
Actually, not really. The term "American" was the one most commonly used. It was a distinct culture. That is reflected in the names of the Provincial units: American Legion, American Volunteers, Loyal American Regiment, King's American Regiment, King's American Dragoons, etc. Certainly people considered themselves from the province they came from, but by 1775, the idea of an America (I am NOT saying a United States of America) was very much in place.
Both the british and the colonists considered the colonists American well before the war, there was already a sort of separation between the identities and culture going back to the 1600s. When Ben Franklin was working in London as a youngster the native Londoners would refer to him as an American, he wrote about this in his book. There's also other references to Yankees and Americans elsewhere.
Chris you gone light the fire of some guys... 😅
However another great video, congrats from Portugal.
Ha ha thanks a lot...I am interested to see how many laugh and how many get mad...