Hello everyone, After much thought, I've decided that I will no longer be replying to comments on the channel. While I truly appreciate the thoughtful, engaging, and often hilarious conversations many of you bring to the table, I've noticed an increasing number of comments that seem more focused on negativity, criticism, or just finding something to be offended about. This channel is a labour of love, and I want to spend my energy creating more content that the majority of you enjoy rather than getting caught up in endless debates or responding to those who seem determined to stir the pot. I probably waste an hour a day replying to comments that would be better ignored. To all of you who regularly bring positive vibes, share your insights, and show genuine interest in history-thank you! Your support means the world to me. If you'd like to keep in touch and stay updated with all my latest content, feel free to join my mailing list - bit.ly/redcoathistory. It's the best way to stay connected without the noise. Thanks for your understanding and support! Cheers, Chris.
I don't post videos but I do respond to them in comments. One thing I realized was that I was spending way to much of my time in arguments with twits. So - I just turned off notifications. So now - when some twit makes a stupid remark I'm not wasting my time telling him how stupid he is. .
What really messes with my head, isn't so much that brave men would volunteer ONCE, to gain promotion or peer respect, but that they would do it AGAIN. I just finished re-reading Chandler's "Warfare in the age of Marlborough", in which he quotes on officer who served in two Forlorns and was shot through the shoulder in the second, leaving him "under care for a twelvemonth". That officers verdict? "A man who goes as far as he is ordered is a good soldier. He who goes further is a fool". These men, of all nations, possessed courage beyond my understanding.
My ancestor, William Chisman, also received the Medal of Honor, for participating in the forlorn hope in the Seige of Vicksburg, "the storming party" and in his memoirs he mentioned being a part of the forlorn hope.
The term confuse me when I first saw its British use. In South Africa we didn't have Navy, Army, Air Force Industry. We had No Ambition And F*** All Interest. So the first time I saw the acronym in a British novel I registered a double-take. Our equivalent was generally called SAWI (Suid Afrikaanse Weermag Industrie). Even among English speaking troops. The neglected English equivalent was SADFI (South African Defence Force Industry). In a bilingual military we often adopted expressions from one language into the other. 😀
A pleasure working with you again, Chris. I agree with a previous comment, the way you closed it out was perfect. No fanfare, no outro music, just a sombre dedication to those who gave their lives.
I don’t usually comment but the ending just hits hard. No music, nothing cheesy just a little mention to the lads who died not for honour or duty, just for their mates. Bravo. Ps, love the seeing how the video production and quality continuously improves each video. Keep it up lad!
In the Quebec Campaign (1759), Wolfe's plan consisted of landing its Light infantry under the command of Lt. Colonel William Howe (of future American Rebellion unlucky fame) west to a place called Anse de Foulon and then dispatching a forlorn hope to seize the control of a road the French used to move troops and supply along the shore. Landing wrongly in the Anse de Foulon, from which it was much more challenging to reach the top to enter into the plains of Abrahams, Howe personally led three companies of light infantry to climb the cliff and seize the top, pushing away the French and thus paving the way to all Wolfe's army. This was an act of bravery and a display of tactical gift. It would be amazing if you would explore Wolfe's campaign, or in general War in America, in the future.
Great video, strong ending, really speaks to why many people are fascinated and study war, it’s not to glorify it, it’s deeper than that, it’s to learn from it and remember the causes and men lost to it, to better understand where we’ve been and where we are going as a species. In short, if someone felt it was worth dying for, the least we can to is understand and remember it
One of my ancestors was a Lieutenant in the 52nd Light Infantry, which supplied most of the forlorn hope at Badajoz, and he followed the forlorn hope into the breech. His experiences, written in a letter to his father are interesting.
Excellent, really enjoyed this presentation, a special breed of Men, perhaps today embodied in the likes of the Seals SAS and many others who willingly perform acts which they might have little hope of surviving and yet something within them gives them the courage to do it anyway, Valhalla or Glory is a peculiar mindset possessed of a very valiant few !
Well thought out and put together this video -was very well done and researched. Never heard of this special British force before. I am impressed by their valour and bravery in the field. Complete dedication to King and Country. Thank you for this lesson in military history. Subscribed.
An excellent video mate, indeed a nice tribute to the memory of those poor chaps, portuguese battalions lost around 400 blokes that day, thanks for sharing.
Hi mate - just wanted to let you know Im stepping back from comments on UA-cam for a while so if you post and I don't reply it's nothing personal. I just realised that I was spending hours a day on YT replying to comments (many of which were soul destroying) - you can still reach me on email tho.
As always, Chris, a splendid video! Maybe just an idea: never thought to make some videos about Marlborough's campaign in the low countries? You will certainly see some similarities with Wellingtons' campaign 100 years later. Not only the red thin line, the logistics, the communication lines to the North Sea ports, the use of reverse slopes, etc... Enjoy the good work! Over the hills and far away, through Flanders, Portugal and Spain....
You know, I think of this through the Sharpe series. Especially in Sharpe's Company and Sharpe's Challenge. Makes me feel like playing Napoleon: Total War. Have heard of Godley from War & Civilization by Walter Cronkite.
My ancestor Sgt Samuel humble Lawson led the forlorn hope at badajoz, he was promoted to lieutenant and we still have his forlorn hope medal ,general service medal with forlorn hope bar. Wellington only awarded 4 forlorn hope medals. He was in the 95th rifles but he was not mentioned.
I love how balanced your view is, I mean definitely pro British don't get me wrong, but you don't fail to mention the dishonourable acts of cruelty after the battle is won
I did that deliberately. 🙂Chris Simpson is a good friend and I love his music. We just did a week-long road trip from Liverpool up to Inverness, visiting various historic battlefields and regimental museums.
I wonder what the average age of these volunteers was. The subalterns described sounded young. I once heard a British CO explain that of his soldiers (in the Falklands) the late teens, early 20's almost seemed to feel they were immortal, but as men matured they became more circumspect.
Soldiering us a young man's game. Most junior officers are the same age, even younger than their men. Even company commanders are relatively young. Remember that a soldier can retire at 38 or so with full service. I'm 52 now, but their are men leading others into battle, leading regiments that ate far younger than me. I couldn't even imagine being a 2Lt leading men in a fight. And they're only young.
The ages of the enlisted volunteers aren't recorded, as sadly their names are forgotten. I imagine they would have trended younger...in a profession that is already populated by the young. Most likely, they mirrored the ages of the officers who led them, between eighteen and twenty-three.
It was noted in the early 20th century that young boys make for utterly fanatical soldiers, during the Russian civil war cadets from the army schools were some of the first and most committed counter-revolutionaries, they were unfortunately let down by their elders and all suffered a very grim fate at the hands of the reds, during the Soviet invasion of Poland the Polish boy scouts fought to the death, being noted as among the hardest troops to dislodge, and of course in WW2 Germany ended the war with only the SS, WW1 veterans and the Hitler Youth holding to the bitter and final end.
Back in the 1970s, when I was interested in war games , forlorn hope was used to describe the use of early firearms in front of an army to break up an assault. Presumably no one expected any significant result and the gunners would retire, post haste, to the main body!
My 2nd great grandmother was a Mary Ann Picton.I have often wondered if there was a family connection, her married name was Mary Ann Bratt she lived in Cheshire at Northwich
You neglected to mention the Maryland 400 who covered Washington's retreat and ultimate escape across the east river to Manhattan in the Battle of Long Island. More important over on our side of the pond I guess.
I think it's a stretch to argue they were 'laughing'. It was a way for a nobody to roll the dice on a better lot in life, and given the average life of the lower ranking soldiers or non-gentry officers...it might've been worth the risk. Glory was something sought by people who already had everything. Those with nothing were likely driven more by ambition than courage. A certain degree of bravery was no doubt required, but I think it actually demeans a lot of these men more to insinuate they were stupid enough to do this stuff for 'honour'. Honour wouldn't feed you or your family, but rank and position might, if you could live to claim it.
In the US Film...GLORY🇺🇸I recognized the Forlorn Hope in the Colored Infantry Regiment Massachusetts 54th! They Stormed CSA Fort Wagner in South Carolina with Great Courage & Valor!
The word forlorn basically means in modern English abandoned, lost in spirit, wretched, hopeless, & which is originally derived from the Old English or Anglo-Saxon word: “Forloren” then meaning “lost”. Almost the same word, “verloren” (or with slight derivations of spelling or pronunciation) still means “lost” in many modern Germanic languages such as: Afrikaans, Dutch, Frisian, Flemish, Luxemburgish, Low German & standard German! All of which was apparently according to linguistic-historians, originally derived from the “Proto-Germanic” form of the word, “FRALEUSANA”, part of a common, original, ancestral tongue of all modern day Germanic or Nordic languages that has been since reconstructed & a putatively spoken language in ancient Europe, some ca. 1,800 to 2,800 years ago!
BBC had a series of short films "our war"... Might be on iPlayer... The battle of mons machine gunner was part of it... Worth watching if still available..
Our World War is where we got the footage. Agreed, the Mons episode is the best. I get teary-eyed when Lieutenant Steele tells Godley, "You know what I'm asking," and Godley replies, "Someone's got to stay till the end, sir."
The term was adopted by the british, after fighting on the continent in 16-18c -- it was reckoned to have been adapted (& mangled) by british troops from the dutch for 'advance guard' which sounded like"veloren oop".
Amazing. What a story about Badajoz! It was like all other forlorn hopes paled in comparison. But that was fine. I'll henceforth check out all Redcoat Histories. But I gotta say, the US Medal of Honor in the Civil War was by no means equivalent to the Victoria Cross. What did they give out, 15,000 of them? (And none to Confederates.) It wasn't till later that it became special...
There was a fellow by the name of Audie Murphy, quite well known for a time. He could be said to have undertaken more than one "forlorn hope" adventures. While a colonial, he would make an interesting subject for a video.
Thanks brother. Yeah, crazy stuff and incredible bravery. BTW Im stepping back from comments on UA-cam for a while so if you post and I don't reply it's nothing personal. I just realised that I was spending hours a day on YT replying to comments (many of which were soul destroying) I can be reached tho via redcoathistory at gmail dot com
Hiya Christian.. I think the name is a huge clue.. 'Forlorn Hope'... a bit like what the Americans call a 'Hail Mary' but with more chance of success. I think Ensign Matthews [aye.. him in the clip you showed] in Sharpe's Enemy, in response to Sharpe saying nobody survived a Forlorn Hope 'some do Richard.. oh do [recommend me]..' It was the promise of instant promotion, and for Sergeants a commission, probably which none in the Hope could afford as officer promotions were mainly bought, that I think was the big lure. [Ah that's right.. you mentioned a badge.. I'm sure Sharpe wearing one after Badajoz was mentioned] Do you know what percentage of a Forlorn Hope survived? Compare to the average soldier I expect it was pretty low. May I suggest as well as your excellent dedication, also to all those awarded a Mention In Dispatches when their actions deserved so much more? Until (I think) the 1980s an act had to be witnessed /and/ the perpetrator survive else the maximum they could be awarded was an MiD. Example from the SWW St Nazaire commando raid: Capt. Prichard was, to a very great extent, instrumental in bringing about the raid in the docks at ST. NAZAIRE. By his untiring efforts the demolitions were organised and the demolition parties trained. His own enthusiasm he inculcated into the personnel undergoing training and his untiring work produced such a thorough knowledge of their tasks and work that the eventual success of the complete destruction of the Dry Dock must be largely placed to his credit. During the operation, Capt. Pritchard went ashore by the Old Mole and proceeded to the Inner Dock to supervise operations there. The personnel due to carry out these tasks failed to make a landing, and alone in the dock area Capt. Pritchard was seen to be making intense efforts to do as much damage as humanly possible with the limited amount of explosive he carried. It was in this most courageous action that he met his death. Later in the action, when the force on land passed the inner dock area, it was found that a tug had been sunk right across the lock gates, completely blocking them and there is very little doubt that it was the work of Capt. Pritchard alone that caused this blockage. It was due to Capt. Pritchard’s infectious enthusiasm, personality, and ceaseless and tireless devotion to duty throughout the training and the operation, that the success of the ST. NAZAIRE operation must be attributed. -- Despite the above all he was awarded was a posthumous MiD.
For a long time I wondered why so many 19th century British officers happened to be named Colin Campbell. It took me a minute to realize they were all the SAME GUY. 😅
In Allan Mallinson's Mathew Hervey's books (the cavalry counterpart to Sharpe) it's claimed that the cavalry would clamour for the Forlorn Hopes to prove their valour in sieges where they always become overlooked. Is there any evidence to support this?
I understand why lower ranking officers and rankers would want to do thos, but rrasonably high ranking officers also took part in these attacks. Whatever ones motivations, one would need to be extremely brave to risk life and limb for those motivations. Better and braver than i am.
For some unknown reason, the author of this video reffers the pillage of Badajoz by the British AND PORTUGUSE troops, but completely ommits the PORTUGUESE participation in the storming of thr fortress. For instance, the 3rd (Picton's) Division included Champalimaud's Brigade (9th and 21st Regimentos de Infantaria), wich suffered around 200 casualties; the 4th division included Collins' Brigade 11th and 23rd Regimentos de Infantaria + Caçadores 7); the 5th Division de had Sprye's Brigade (3rd IR + Caçadores 8); and the Light Division had 1 Caçadores battn. They all suffered hundreds of casualties, and it's fair to assume it wasn't by robbing and murdering villagers. Appart from that, nice video, though.
In fairness he doesn't say 'British Army' but 'Wellington's Army'. There are also a lot of formations left out as this video is about Forlorn Hopes rather than the composition of the army. As you rightly point out these Portuguese units were part of/attached to the British commanded divisions. Apart from those who formed the Forlorn Hopes these are the only formations mentioned. If the video was about the siege and storming of Badajoz then I think your, relatively minor, criticism would be on point. Maybe Chris could have said 'Wellington's Anglo-Portuguese Army' for the sake of clarity. 🙂
@@TheSilentPrince-mt5mx , true, but he nevertheless stressed British casualties (and not just from Forlorn Hopes), yet, ommited Portuguese participation in the storming of the city but then reffered to them when talking about the sacking, murder and rape episode. Despite this (maybe not so minor) detail, it's still a great show, as always.
@@pippohispano I just went through the transcript. It seems Chris did refer to the ''Anglo-Portuguese Army' early in the video but then used the term 'British' when talking about the camp and then the storming of Badajoz. I'll happily concede to you on the facts here.
My Colonel, said to the RSM, l hear l have a new troop, No sir, I have a troop, the Forlron Hope, they are the chosen ones, all are volunteers, work only for me Sir, Why are they so special said the Colonel? Ah, bigest bunch of theives, rouges, skivers, but very fit, marksman every one, live of the land, no rations drawn, no cost to the Regiment, and willing to do my biding, any task,Sir, Yes you guessed it, any shitty job that came along it was ours, happy momories.
Hello everyone,
After much thought, I've decided that I will no longer be replying to comments on the channel. While I truly appreciate the thoughtful, engaging, and often hilarious conversations many of you bring to the table, I've noticed an increasing number of comments that seem more focused on negativity, criticism, or just finding something to be offended about.
This channel is a labour of love, and I want to spend my energy creating more content that the majority of you enjoy rather than getting caught up in endless debates or responding to those who seem determined to stir the pot. I probably waste an hour a day replying to comments that would be better ignored.
To all of you who regularly bring positive vibes, share your insights, and show genuine interest in history-thank you! Your support means the world to me.
If you'd like to keep in touch and stay updated with all my latest content, feel free to join my mailing list - bit.ly/redcoathistory. It's the best way to stay connected without the noise.
Thanks for your understanding and support!
Cheers, Chris.
I don't post videos but I do respond to them in comments.
One thing I realized was that I was spending way to much of my time in arguments with twits. So - I just turned off notifications. So now - when some twit makes a stupid remark I'm not wasting my time telling him how stupid he is.
.
Fully understood.
Many thanks for all that you do.
Keep up the Good Work!🇬🇧
Thanks for the content Chris, not worth wasting your time on the negative comments.
🙁
What really messes with my head, isn't so much that brave men would volunteer ONCE, to gain promotion or peer respect, but that they would do it AGAIN. I just finished re-reading Chandler's "Warfare in the age of Marlborough", in which he quotes on officer who served in two Forlorns and was shot through the shoulder in the second, leaving him "under care for a twelvemonth". That officers verdict? "A man who goes as far as he is ordered is a good soldier. He who goes further is a fool".
These men, of all nations, possessed courage beyond my understanding.
My ancestor, William Chisman, also received the Medal of Honor, for participating in the forlorn hope in the Seige of Vicksburg, "the storming party" and in his memoirs he mentioned being a part of the forlorn hope.
Lt Mcferson’s achievement is still celebrated my the Mercian regiment today.
John Shipp what a fellow, twice commissioned from the ranks, top bloke!
Getting lost walking down the street is made much easier if you have been to the pub or the NAAFI first!
The term confuse me when I first saw its British use.
In South Africa we didn't have Navy, Army, Air Force Industry. We had No Ambition And F*** All Interest.
So the first time I saw the acronym in a British novel I registered a double-take.
Our equivalent was generally called SAWI (Suid Afrikaanse Weermag Industrie). Even among English speaking troops. The neglected English equivalent was SADFI (South African Defence Force Industry). In a bilingual military we often adopted expressions from one language into the other. 😀
A pleasure working with you again, Chris. I agree with a previous comment, the way you closed it out was perfect. No fanfare, no outro music, just a sombre dedication to those who gave their lives.
Thanks, Chris,superb as always. I think recently in the UK we're all members of the Folorn Hope, especially pensioners😂
I don’t usually comment but the ending just hits hard. No music, nothing cheesy just a little mention to the lads who died not for honour or duty, just for their mates. Bravo.
Ps, love the seeing how the video production and quality continuously improves each video. Keep it up lad!
You do a great variety of history here Chris
In the Quebec Campaign (1759), Wolfe's plan consisted of landing its Light infantry under the command of Lt. Colonel William Howe (of future American Rebellion unlucky fame) west to a place called Anse de Foulon and then dispatching a forlorn hope to seize the control of a road the French used to move troops and supply along the shore. Landing wrongly in the Anse de Foulon, from which it was much more challenging to reach the top to enter into the plains of Abrahams, Howe personally led three companies of light infantry to climb the cliff and seize the top, pushing away the French and thus paving the way to all Wolfe's army. This was an act of bravery and a display of tactical gift. It would be amazing if you would explore Wolfe's campaign, or in general War in America, in the future.
Great video, strong ending, really speaks to why many people are fascinated and study war, it’s not to glorify it, it’s deeper than that, it’s to learn from it and remember the causes and men lost to it, to better understand where we’ve been and where we are going as a species. In short, if someone felt it was worth dying for, the least we can to is understand and remember it
One of my ancestors was a Lieutenant in the 52nd Light Infantry, which supplied most of the forlorn hope at Badajoz, and he followed the forlorn hope into the breech. His experiences, written in a letter to his father are interesting.
Excellent video
Cheers to the Heroes! Bless 'em All 🇬🇧
Verloren hoop also translates to lost hope!
Bad dudes. Much respect.
semper fi
@@Paulftate the motto of the Devons! Good man!
Excellent story, and an excellent dedication to unknown heroes. Much Respect from Canada 🇨🇦
Thanks Keith
Awesome video and I love getting new book recommendations thank you 🙂
Good one guys, loved it.
A great story Chris. Thank you.
Thanks for that. Sad days.
Excellent, really enjoyed this presentation, a special breed of Men, perhaps today embodied in the likes of the Seals SAS and many others who willingly perform acts which they might have little hope of surviving and yet something within them gives them the courage to do it anyway, Valhalla or Glory is a peculiar mindset possessed of a very valiant few !
Forlorn Hope came from the german term "Verlorener Haufen" meaning lost men/unit. It's from the time of the Swiss and German Landsknecht (1450~1600).
Well thought out and put together this video -was very well done and researched. Never heard of this special British force before. I am impressed by their valour and bravery in the field. Complete dedication to King and Country. Thank you for this lesson in military history. Subscribed.
An excellent video mate, indeed a nice tribute to the memory of those poor chaps, portuguese battalions lost around 400 blokes that day, thanks for sharing.
Hi mate - just wanted to let you know Im stepping back from comments on UA-cam for a while so if you post and I don't reply it's nothing personal. I just realised that I was spending hours a day on YT replying to comments (many of which were soul destroying) - you can still reach me on email tho.
@@redcoathistory I read your note, unfortunatelly human stupidity is ever growing, take care.
"Connaught Robbers" it did make me laugh
Not all bad for the Devil's own
Surely the blowing of the Kashmir gate during the Indian Mutiny was a forlorn hope. Love your stuff mate. X
Excellent video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it thanks
As always, Chris, a splendid video! Maybe just an idea: never thought to make some videos about Marlborough's campaign in the low countries? You will certainly see some similarities with Wellingtons' campaign 100 years later.
Not only the red thin line, the logistics, the communication lines to the North Sea ports, the use of reverse slopes, etc... Enjoy the good work!
Over the hills and far away, through Flanders, Portugal and Spain....
You know, I think of this through the Sharpe series. Especially in Sharpe's Company and Sharpe's Challenge. Makes me feel like playing Napoleon: Total War. Have heard of Godley from War & Civilization by Walter Cronkite.
My ancestor Sgt Samuel humble Lawson led the forlorn hope at badajoz, he was promoted to lieutenant and we still have his forlorn hope medal ,general service medal with forlorn hope bar. Wellington only awarded 4 forlorn hope medals. He was in the 95th rifles but he was not mentioned.
Excellent video! Thanks!
Many thanks!
Excellent video well presented.Thank you.
I love how balanced your view is, I mean definitely pro British don't get me wrong, but you don't fail to mention the dishonourable acts of cruelty after the battle is won
Great to see a Forlorn Hope tshirt in the episode.
I did that deliberately. 🙂Chris Simpson is a good friend and I love his music. We just did a week-long road trip from Liverpool up to Inverness, visiting various historic battlefields and regimental museums.
@@legionarybooks13 Chris is a good egg.
@@legionarybooks13 crass! An American might not get that
I wonder what the average age of these volunteers was. The subalterns described sounded young. I once heard a British CO explain that of his soldiers (in the Falklands) the late teens, early 20's almost seemed to feel they were immortal, but as men matured they became more circumspect.
Soldiering us a young man's game. Most junior officers are the same age, even younger than their men. Even company commanders are relatively young. Remember that a soldier can retire at 38 or so with full service.
I'm 52 now, but their are men leading others into battle, leading regiments that ate far younger than me.
I couldn't even imagine being a 2Lt leading men in a fight. And they're only young.
The ages of the enlisted volunteers aren't recorded, as sadly their names are forgotten. I imagine they would have trended younger...in a profession that is already populated by the young. Most likely, they mirrored the ages of the officers who led them, between eighteen and twenty-three.
Soldiers are so young. I was 19 and my son was 18 when he joined.
It was noted in the early 20th century that young boys make for utterly fanatical soldiers, during the Russian civil war cadets from the army schools were some of the first and most committed counter-revolutionaries, they were unfortunately let down by their elders and all suffered a very grim fate at the hands of the reds, during the Soviet invasion of Poland the Polish boy scouts fought to the death, being noted as among the hardest troops to dislodge, and of course in WW2 Germany ended the war with only the SS, WW1 veterans and the Hitler Youth holding to the bitter and final end.
Great topic
Brilliant 👏
Back in the 1970s, when I was interested in war games , forlorn hope was used to describe the use of early firearms in front of an army to break up an assault. Presumably no one expected any significant result and the gunners would retire, post haste, to the main body!
Brave men, poor souls 🕊
i just finished watching the entire Sharpe series a few days ago lol
My 2nd great grandmother was a Mary Ann Picton.I have often wondered if there was a family connection, her married name was Mary Ann Bratt she lived in Cheshire at Northwich
You neglected to mention the Maryland 400 who covered Washington's retreat and ultimate escape across the east river to Manhattan in the Battle of Long Island. More important over on our side of the pond I guess.
Excellent 👌
I think it's a stretch to argue they were 'laughing'. It was a way for a nobody to roll the dice on a better lot in life, and given the average life of the lower ranking soldiers or non-gentry officers...it might've been worth the risk.
Glory was something sought by people who already had everything. Those with nothing were likely driven more by ambition than courage. A certain degree of bravery was no doubt required, but I think it actually demeans a lot of these men more to insinuate they were stupid enough to do this stuff for 'honour'. Honour wouldn't feed you or your family, but rank and position might, if you could live to claim it.
In the US Film...GLORY🇺🇸I recognized the Forlorn Hope in the Colored Infantry Regiment Massachusetts 54th! They Stormed CSA Fort Wagner in South Carolina with Great Courage & Valor!
That shadow boxing 🔥😅
A Musket ball in the groin would stop me ! Good Lord, they were made tough back then !
As a person that is mostly uneducated on this battle.....my reply is WOW.
The word forlorn basically means in modern English abandoned, lost in spirit, wretched, hopeless, & which is originally derived from the Old English or Anglo-Saxon word: “Forloren” then meaning “lost”.
Almost the same word, “verloren” (or with slight derivations of spelling or pronunciation) still means “lost” in many modern Germanic languages such as: Afrikaans, Dutch, Frisian, Flemish, Luxemburgish, Low German & standard German! All of which was apparently according to linguistic-historians, originally derived from the “Proto-Germanic” form of the word, “FRALEUSANA”, part of a common, original, ancestral tongue of all modern day Germanic or Nordic languages that has been since reconstructed & a putatively spoken language in ancient Europe, some ca. 1,800 to 2,800 years ago!
BBC had a series of short films "our war"... Might be on iPlayer... The battle of mons machine gunner was part of it... Worth watching if still available..
Been trying to remeber the name of it for ages. Watching on iPlayer now.
Our World War is where we got the footage. Agreed, the Mons episode is the best. I get teary-eyed when Lieutenant Steele tells Godley, "You know what I'm asking," and Godley replies, "Someone's got to stay till the end, sir."
The tank film was good also
@@longyx321 watched all three last night. Thanks for the heads up.
16:31 I've just downloaded The Letters of Private Wheeler on Audible after seeing this.
The term was adopted by the british, after fighting on the continent in 16-18c -- it was reckoned to have been adapted (& mangled) by british troops from the dutch for 'advance guard' which sounded like"veloren oop".
Amazing. What a story about Badajoz! It was like all other forlorn hopes paled in comparison. But that was fine. I'll henceforth check out all Redcoat Histories. But I gotta say, the US Medal of Honor in the Civil War was by no means equivalent to the Victoria Cross. What did they give out, 15,000 of them? (And none to Confederates.) It wasn't till later that it became special...
There was a fellow by the name of Audie Murphy, quite well known for a time. He could be said to have undertaken more than one "forlorn hope" adventures. While a colonial, he would make an interesting subject for a video.
I always called them the super brave soldiers, kanti they had an actual name and they were strategically place?
Scary job
Thanks brother. Yeah, crazy stuff and incredible bravery. BTW Im stepping back from comments on UA-cam for a while so if you post and I don't reply it's nothing personal. I just realised that I was spending hours a day on YT replying to comments (many of which were soul destroying) I can be reached tho via redcoathistory at gmail dot com
in the song Weit lasst die Fahnen wehen the forlorn hope is mentioned
Hiya Christian.. I think the name is a huge clue.. 'Forlorn Hope'... a bit like what the Americans call a 'Hail Mary' but with more chance of success. I think Ensign Matthews [aye.. him in the clip you showed] in Sharpe's Enemy, in response to Sharpe saying nobody survived a Forlorn Hope 'some do Richard.. oh do [recommend me]..' It was the promise of instant promotion, and for Sergeants a commission, probably which none in the Hope could afford as officer promotions were mainly bought, that I think was the big lure. [Ah that's right.. you mentioned a badge.. I'm sure Sharpe wearing one after Badajoz was mentioned]
Do you know what percentage of a Forlorn Hope survived? Compare to the average soldier I expect it was pretty low.
May I suggest as well as your excellent dedication, also to all those awarded a Mention In Dispatches when their actions deserved so much more? Until (I think) the 1980s an act had to be witnessed /and/ the perpetrator survive else the maximum they could be awarded was an MiD. Example from the SWW St Nazaire commando raid:
Capt. Prichard was, to a very great extent, instrumental in bringing about the raid in the docks at ST. NAZAIRE. By his untiring efforts the demolitions were organised and the demolition parties trained. His own enthusiasm he inculcated into the personnel undergoing training and his untiring work produced such a thorough knowledge of their tasks and work that the eventual success of the complete destruction of the Dry Dock must be largely placed to his credit.
During the operation, Capt. Pritchard went ashore by the Old Mole and proceeded to the Inner Dock to supervise operations there. The personnel due to carry out these tasks failed to make a landing, and alone in the dock area Capt. Pritchard was seen to be making intense efforts to do as much damage as humanly possible with the limited amount of explosive he carried. It was in this most courageous action that he met his death.
Later in the action, when the force on land passed the inner dock area, it was found that a tug had been sunk right across the lock gates, completely blocking them and there is very little doubt that it was the work of Capt. Pritchard alone that caused this blockage.
It was due to Capt. Pritchard’s infectious enthusiasm, personality, and ceaseless and tireless devotion to duty throughout the training and the operation, that the success of the ST. NAZAIRE operation must be attributed.
--
Despite the above all he was awarded was a posthumous MiD.
Might be cliche, but, would you consider the 54th Mass. at Fort Wagner in the ACW a Forlorn Hope?
Also the name of a cracking heavy metal band from Merseyside.
Don't forget Heros and his two mates holding the Bridge to Rome against Attila the Hun..
For a long time I wondered why so many 19th century British officers happened to be named Colin Campbell. It took me a minute to realize they were all the SAME GUY. 😅
A shame it didn't cover the role of the forlorn hopes in English Civil War field battles.
In Allan Mallinson's Mathew Hervey's books (the cavalry counterpart to Sharpe) it's claimed that the cavalry would clamour for the Forlorn Hopes to prove their valour in sieges where they always become overlooked.
Is there any evidence to support this?
The Green mountain boys formed one of their own forlorn hopes during the revolution.
I understand why lower ranking officers and rankers would want to do thos, but rrasonably high ranking officers also took part in these attacks.
Whatever ones motivations, one would need to be extremely brave to risk life and limb for those motivations. Better and braver than i am.
De velooren hoop.
In American history the stranded Donner party sent out a last gasp attempt to save themselves which they called their Forlorn Hope
For some unknown reason, the author of this video reffers the pillage of Badajoz by the British AND PORTUGUSE troops, but completely ommits the PORTUGUESE participation in the storming of thr fortress.
For instance, the 3rd (Picton's) Division included Champalimaud's Brigade (9th and 21st Regimentos de Infantaria), wich suffered around 200 casualties; the 4th division included Collins' Brigade 11th and 23rd Regimentos de Infantaria + Caçadores 7); the
5th Division de had Sprye's Brigade (3rd IR + Caçadores 8); and the Light Division had 1 Caçadores battn.
They all suffered hundreds of casualties, and it's fair to assume it wasn't by robbing and murdering villagers.
Appart from that, nice video, though.
In fairness he doesn't say 'British Army' but 'Wellington's Army'. There are also a lot of formations left out as this video is about Forlorn Hopes rather than the composition of the army. As you rightly point out these Portuguese units were part of/attached to the British commanded divisions. Apart from those who formed the Forlorn Hopes these are the only formations mentioned. If the video was about the siege and storming of Badajoz then I think your, relatively minor, criticism would be on point. Maybe Chris could have said 'Wellington's Anglo-Portuguese Army' for the sake of clarity. 🙂
@@TheSilentPrince-mt5mx , true, but he nevertheless stressed British casualties (and not just from Forlorn Hopes), yet, ommited Portuguese participation in the storming of the city but then reffered to them when talking about the sacking, murder and rape episode.
Despite this (maybe not so minor) detail, it's still a great show, as always.
@@pippohispano I just went through the transcript. It seems Chris did refer to the ''Anglo-Portuguese Army' early in the video but then used the term 'British' when talking about the camp and then the storming of Badajoz. I'll happily concede to you on the facts here.
@@TheSilentPrince-mt5mx , well, again, a detail, but still a good video, as he used us to.
The Dutch "hoop" and the English "hope" are pronounced the same.
Best to ignore the forlorn snowflakes. Great channel 👍
My Colonel, said to the RSM, l hear l have a new troop, No sir, I have a troop, the Forlron Hope, they are the chosen ones, all are volunteers, work only for me Sir, Why are they so special said the Colonel? Ah, bigest bunch of theives, rouges, skivers, but very fit, marksman every one, live of the land, no rations drawn, no cost to the Regiment, and willing to do my biding, any task,Sir, Yes you guessed it, any shitty job that came along it was ours, happy momories.
Why did he call Soult 'Nicolas'? His given names were Jean de Dieu - as per #EpicHistoryTVs #NapoleonsMarshals.
The devils own
Waidmannsheil
Cheese?
Sorry but a firefighter at Chernobyl was the most dangerous job in history.