Talking insomnia #74: Nina's remarkable transformation to her sleeping self and beyond.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 вер 2021
- When Nina, a recent transplant to her new home of Australia, lost her job during the lockdown what had once been an occasional nuisance started consuming every aspect of her life. A night of little sleep triggered worries, and soon after the unthinkable happened, a totally sleepless night. And then two in row.
After a tumultuous fall down the rabbit hole, Nina found this channel and things started to make sense. However, with every insight and period of sleeping easier, the old patterns reemerged and she wondered if she would ever be free.
Little did she now that she in fact not only would soon be free of insomnia, but from all of the other struggles that come from the same place. For anyone who feels hopeless and that the road has been bumpy, this episode is for you.
-
Are you thinking of a new career helping the world sleep better? Would you like to pay forward by helping those still struggling? Are you looking for a coaching niche with few knowledgeable coaches and a vast unmet need?
If the answer is yes, then check out our sleep coach certification program! Next batch starts October 15. 2/4 slots available.
www.thesleepcoachschool.com/o...
-
Would you like a roadmap from Insomnia to immunity? Download using below link.
www.thesleepcoachschool.com/h...
-
Would you like to work with a sleep coach? Awesome! Here are some great options:
- The Insomnia Immunity Group Coaching Program.
- BedTyme, a sleep coaching app for iOS and Android offering 1:1 text based coaching.
- Zoom based 1:1 coaching with Coach Michelle.
The Insomnia Immunity program is perfect if you like learning through video and want to join a group on your journey towards sleeping well.
BedTyme is ideal if you like to learn via text and have a sleep coach in your pocket.
The 1:1 Zoom based program is for you if you like to connect one on one with someone who has been where you are now.
For more about these programs here: www.thesleepcoachschool.com
-
Do you like learning by reading? If so, here are two books that offer breakthroughs!
Set it & Forget it by Daniel Erichsen
www.amazon.com/Set-Forget-rea...
This is Natto by Daniel Erichsen
www.amazon.com/This-Natto-rea...
-
Not sure where to start? Check out these playlists!
This is natto - the perfect place to start learning!
• This is Natto - Start ...
Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you.
• Success stories
Insomnia insight - a list of every single episode.
• Playlist
Talking insomnia - guests with trouble sleeping or experts share their stories / tips.
• Talking insomnia
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
• Hypnic jerks and more.
Fatal insomnia - for those concerned about ffi and sfi.
• Familial and sporadic ...
Speed bumps - when you think you had a setback or “relapse.”
• Talking insomnia #55: ...
The self coaching model
• The model
Best!
This content does not constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment, and should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or other qualified healthcare providers. - Розваги
Nina, you’re such a wonderful and strong woman, thanks for sharing your story, it was super helpful und I could resonate with almost everything you said.
Also, for me Insomnia was always the same as an OCD-way of thinking, because you really obsess about it so much, that it becomes all you think about. I have OCD since I am 11 years old, and Insomnia just came when I started to shift my focus on the sleep obsession. It’s nothing more than a topic that you’re focused on. The more you focus on it, the more you look into details- and details destroy the clarity of the pictures wholeness. So I like to think about zooming out, shifting my focus whenever I obsess about sleeping again. Until it finally fades away, because when you give it 0, it will give you 0. If you give it 100, it will give you 100. It’s that simple; leave it alone, don‘t attach a meaning to the story that’s playing in your head. Don’t attach any meaning to Insomnia, it is all just about focus. If you leave it, it leaves you. Thanks, Nina 💎
Nina, even by ignoring insomnia you really stood it like a warrior .
Don’t mean to be the semantics police, but the words explain the attitude. She didn’t ignore per se, she noticed, allowed, and refocused back to her life/values.
Hang in there people's.THIS WORKS!!! I've started having some amazing sleeps.Still a ways to go..but my confidence is building.Thank you soooo much Daniel and fellow coaches.
Joanne! Soo glad to read these lines 😊 it’s a bumpy path, don’t be discouraged if you see some more struggle even after having seen things clearly and experienced the magic of letting go. But yes, this is super nice to read, you’re on your way where you want to be!
Really resonate and so much appreciate all these tips. Feel like my issue is so much work with 26 years of medication attached to this insomnia. I’m gonna trust that there is hope
There’s a way for everyone Arlene, next week we will hear from Richard who left the struggle after 40 years
I am SO glad I found this channel and this interview. I discovered the channel a couple of weeks ago and it’s totally transformed the way I feel about sleepless nights and sleep anxiety. I’ve had some really great sleeps and I feel so much more relaxed.
One thing I am struggling with is that I’m thinking less and less about sleep each day, but I am almost analysing this and my brain goes “oh I haven’t thought about sleep in a while that’s great” but then by thinking of that, I start thinking about sleep again!! It’s like it’s always there just hiding in the back of my mind, waiting for me to think about it. I totally understand allowing thoughts to come and go, without judging them but I just can’t let the thoughts of sleep go. Again when I’m going to bed and settling in, my brain starts analysing any thought that comes to my head..I’m constantly obsessed with thoughts and making sure I’m just letting them be without judgement that I’m ending up trying to control them. This could be thoughts about anything not just sleep, but then that’s what keeps me from falling asleep for hours!
Thank you. This was just what I need right now. Love this interview.
This woman is brillant articulate
Actually her insomnia enlightened her and me 🎁🎁🎁
A m a z i n g ! So accurate! The gifts that nina received from insomnia are for life!
Neil! Thanks so much for echoing this, so important to know that this can happen 😊!!
Very amazing interview and so much insight. This conversation was definitely for me. Thank you!
Love reading these lines Kimberly 😊 So glad it was helpful. Be well and stay in touch!
Always happy to hear success stories! ❤️
We can never have too much of a hope :-)
I’m just so Happy I found your channel. 😭🙏🏼❤️
So am I! Welcome 😊
Love your story Nina! The speed bump stages are definitely not easy but I looooove that you said your brain is just on autopilot. All it knows is to be fearful and once you know this and are okay with it, it will pass. It will pass but on its own time. I’m still experiencing this so it was nice seeing someone that has went through the ups and downs too & what you’ve learned. I called you my soul sista!! 😂
Yesss speed bumps could be so frustrating but just remembering how brain works helps 😀 anxiety might be random and for no apparent reason, but the best thing we can do is do nothing and let it be😄it’s the same old boring anxiety, nothing to be surprised about haha. You’ll get there soon, keep going 💪
Wow!!!that was deep!!.....but I get it.Thank you so much.i can see myself perhaps listening to this a few times.
Yes indeed! It became really a deep look at things, so glad it was helpful 😊 And absolutely listen a few times and I’m sure you’ll get even more value!
Great love a good success story,I bet there’s many of them from your education Daniel!!👍
Don! Thanks for always being supportive and in touch and you know, the magic is really all thanks to the community here :-)!
Another story of hope! :D
Something we can never have enough of 😊
I totally relate to Nina and her story. I can’t wait to try out some of her suggestions.
So so glad it resonated Doug!
So happy to see Nina's success story!
thanks Alina, really appreciated your videos and comments, it has helped me greatly :)
Thanks so much,Daniel and Nina! I'm starting my way,hopefully, very soon will be one of success stories ☺
So glad it was helpful 😊 You’ll be where you want to be when you’re learning and finding some courage within 👍
I tell everyone that struggles with sleep about you lol you were such a pivot point for me. Thank you!
This means so much to hear 😊! Thanks for all the support, it is what keeps the tank always full :-)
I love this interview, I learnt a lot from her and the comments, I am going to put to practice some of her suggestions
That's fantastic to hear! Implementing what you've learned is where the real magic happens. Best of luck with putting those suggestions into practice!
This is astonishing. I was here on your channel 3.5 years ago. After having chronic fatigue and many other types of obsessive anxiety based bodymind issues, I am understanding this now. This interview, The Power of Now, Dr. John Sarno, and Stoics have spelled it out!
Pilar! I remember your comments and - this is so wonderful how you’re seeing things in a new way 😊! Thanks for sharing and being in touch!
Gr8 to learn that someone out there is reading the Stoics…! 👏 📚 😊
@@1timbarrett
Here's to The Stoic philosophers!
The Stoics have helped me understand life, for how it is. Not how I would prefer it to be. Helped me to reduce some small element of suffering.
This channel has given me so much hope. Thank you. Im looking foward to join and start my journey.
So so glad to read this and welcome 😊
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 I still dont know how it works completely and I want to get back to myself. Is there a way to know how to start?
Wow!
!
Great interview. Really learned a lot. What I’m having trouble separating is the difference between doing nothing as an effort vs, doing nothing. Please help clarify. Thanks again for your channel.
Hi gkiama,
Thanks so much for the support! And absolutely this is a very good question.
To me it has to do with intent. If anything (including “nothing”) is intended to achieve something then we are doing something.
If there’s no intent, then we’re not doing anything.
So that way we can learn about this is to actually study our response after the fact.
The way to know if you had intent to make sleep happen or not you can tell basically by how you feel thinking about it beforehand or how you thought of it afterwards.
If you think of something you would like to do for example listening to a podcast at night and that gives you a little bit of anxiety feeling, there’s probably intent. Because you have a hope that it will make you sleep and also a fear of “what if it doesn’t work”.
If you think of something you would like to do for example again listening to a podcast and you feel a sense of relief, then there’s probably no intent. Because you’re stepping away from trying which is liberating.
Another good way is to ask yourself how do you think of it afterwards. If you think “that didn’t work” or “I didn’t sleep despite” or “I did this but I still didn’t sleep” - then you also know there was intent.
If you on the other hand don’t make any connections between what you did and how you slept, there was no intent!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you for your response. I think I get it. It will probably take some practice.
I am having a struggle, set back, major speed bump! I noticed about 3 weeks ago my dry mouth got way worse. Then I started eating more. A lot more, uncontrollably. Stressed subconsciously. Now this week, the week of my wedding, insomnia is back and I’m paying way too much attention to it, and I’m pissed cause my eyes look awful. Puffy, bags, dark. On good nights, before these last 3 weeks, I still only get 5, maybe 6 hours, but wasn’t caring knowing my recovery is happening. Now I’m back to like 4. I’m in that horrible loop again and the fear is worse at night.
HI Monica, so so sorry to hear. Just saw this comment. How did the wedding go? Maybe there was some pressure to sleep because of this common idea we won't look/feel like ourselves if we don't? Whatever happens, remember the loop happens when we start trying to prevent having trouble sleeping, when we try to prevent the loop if you will. Be in touch!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thanks Daniel! Great advice. The wedding went well. I actually slept well the night before. I had all 3 of my kids, all 3 grandchildren and my sister stay with us too, but it was good. But I noticed I was practicing not caring a lot.
@monicathrasher3561 anytime Monica, so glad it made sense, and even more so to read these lines. Picturing you with so much family on this special day, and it’s so simple really… when we aren’t pressuring ourselves, the things we want do happen 🙂 Be well and be in touch!!
The conversation was with me, and when i ll get over insomnia i ll be your guest... Wait sometime
Oh yes! Thanks so much for being part of the community, this episode wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t for you 😊 And I look forward to having you as a guest sometime but of course no rush, it sometimes takes a bit!
Hi Daniel I have just read your book and it was really helpful. I particularly like the part about enjoying the time before bed, I just had a quick question, I understand we shouldn't be afraid of things like coffee etc, but I was wondering what your opinion on having coffee in the early evening. On one hand it reinforces your idea that you pay less attention to your sleep, but on the other hand it is a strong stimulant. On a similar note, I enjoy playing multiplayer video games but I usually stop when it gets near my bed time as it is quite common to get really excited when you are trying to win. Using the set it and forget it logic, if I enjoy such games and thus it will make me pay less attention to sleep I should play them before bed. But I am slightly worried that playing such games in the time before bed can get me excited and hyped which is probably not the best for sleep.
Is it then okay to drink coffee near bedtime(within a couple of hours of bed time) and play such games close to bed time(Within an hour).
Hi Prakash!
So glad it was helpful 😊 don’t forget to leave a review 😉
You know, I think absolutely what makes the difference is how we think about it, not what we do.
The difference between being awake and having insomnia is fear. Let’s say someone has too much coffee and they’re awake a few hours.. but they’re not afraid of being awake, the it won’t bother them at all! They’ll just have less some other day and that’s it.
So yes it’s wondering if you should or shouldn’t do something that creates some struggle, nothing else.
So we can use common sense, but not avoid anything we would enjoy form a place of being afraid 👍
Very very interesting conversation Daniel and Nina !! thank you! ..........Daniel as you know my insomnia is caused by vivid dreaming, I think if I wouldn't dream, I would sleep well, I think.( but I know it is possible to dream and sleep well too) ..........Is this conditioning of every night having nightmares or dreams also kind of auto pilot that kicked in (as Nina says)? I dream a whole fictional story every night and when it wakes me up in the middle of the night, I tell my brain, :" I do not like this dream, I want to think on having a walk with my dog in the mountains e.g.".........Then I try to think on a walk with my dog, but what is so astonishing is the fact that after 5 seconds I imagined a walk with my dog, my brain, switches to my previous akward dream..........It is as if my brain wants to finish the movie or the story, like it wants to end the story and find the solution...............And the most astonishing is that maybe I realise the switch over only after a minute or 2, not immediatlely........And then the fght begins, I want to think about the dog, and my brain wants the nightmare, you know what I mean?..........How can you classify this problem, ? Hyperarousel? Fear? auto pilot?.......................I think the best is to stand up as Nina says too, and talk to your mind that there is no danger and reset the brain from the nightmare,, and when getting tired , back to bed...........................But I feel so alone with my dream problem sometimes, these nightmares is this common? It is not a lack of education, I have the know-how now, thanks to your splendid channel, but my brain is so difficult to make it understand..... Many greetzzz, Filip (Belgium)......Thanks a lot Daniel and Nina (Nina you can react too if you want -))))
Filip! Nice to hear from you and thanks for being here 😊 Glad this talk was helpful and you know, just post questions one by one and I’ll reply 👍!
How can I get help with not sleeping everyday, its baffling up and down and its usually some other night.....
Kwesi, so sorry to hear this has been ongoing, but glad you’re here. I’d say studying the videos here often is all you need. We have coaching options too that you can find in our website. But starting with the playlist called This is Natto as well as the success stories, that’s a very nice place to start
I'm still not so sure about the gas and brake theory about sleep. I've had times in my life where I was extremely stressed and anxious yet slept fine, and i've had battles with insomnia where my anxiety was lower and I accepted the fact that my next day was going to be terrible, yet I still could barely sleep that night. My "brake" must be much stronger than others.
Hi gibememoni! Thanks for being in touch. And you know, you bring up such a good point which is that we can be really anxious and still sleep well. The brake pedal has more to do with trying to sleep. If somebody’s actively trying to make themselves sleep then there is that brake pedal action, but we can be really anxious and still sleep well.
I often bring your example up as an example of the fact that there are no ideal conditions necessary for sleep. We don’t have to be thinking about something in particular or not thinking about something or anything like that. Sleep can happen whenever we’re not trying to sleep.
Hang in there! You’re doing great work learning and you will be where you want to be.
Hey daniel, going to bed with intension of not sleeping will be an effort? Dont you think.
We are going against our mind signals which are telling us to sleep each second and these mind signals are supported by too much gas due to fatigue and high brake of hyperarousal
Hi Jack,
You know, I think this is a question of honesty. If we truly have no intention of sleeping, in other words we are ok with being awake, then this is an unattached mindset and sleep can happen easily.
But this is different from “let me see if I can go to bed without intention to sleep” which is a trick! A sleep effort indeed.
I think what probably is helpful is to know that there are no ideal conditions necessary for sleep. We don’t need any particular intention or mindset.
And when we aren’t trying to achieve anything, sleep can happen easily.
Hey Daniel I have sleep and anxiety and I’m worrying about next week as I’ll have to share a room with my sister for a week and worry that if I see her sleeping and I’m not asleep before her, I’ll panic and freak out. I have seen videos of people on UA-cam that have had really bad experiences with insomnia that makes me think what if it happens to me. I’m really worried.
Hi Rachy,
You know, insomnia really is a fear of not sleeping, it’s like a phobia similar to how we can become afraid of large crowds or flying. What you shared sounds like a fear of fear. You’re not yet having so much fear of not sleeping that you’re awake much, but you’re afraid of becoming so scared of not sleeping that you indeed don’t sleep.
Sometimes just seeing clearly how we are afraid of… an emotion that cannot harm us in anyway, we are afraid of a feeling, sometimes this alone is so helpful. It teaches us how the mind works and how it can be confused, mixing up real and perceived dangers.
Now in addition to this above, what can help is to learn about the cycle of resistance.
Insomnia really is just a cycle of resistance. There can be for example this innocent thought “what if I don’t sleep tonight again” and then some resistance to the unpleasant thought. You don’t want this thought or the anxiety it creates. Because of the resistance, the brain wants to make sure you really hear this important warning signal it thinks you need and it pushes the thought more and then there’s some more resistance.
More resistance becomes more intense thoughts and feelings and less sleep. And then of course the thought “what if I don’t sleep tonight again?” happens again.
Now, when you’ve slept better, it was because you gave up on resistance, and here’s the teaching point… wondering “how can I make sure seeing my sister sleep doesn’t make me scared so I don’t sleep” IS that resistance.
And when we go in the opposite direction, when we are willing to experience being awake and other discomfort like feeling anxiety, that’s when we leave the cycle as we leave the resistance.
The Sleep Coach School thank you so much for your reply! I try to let myself not worry about sleep and when I have less anxiety or if I don’t care then I sleep. But what worries me the most is other peoples experiences with severe insomnia, and how what if I can never be successful, or have a good time on an upcoming trip, or feel a sleep pressure (eg watching my sister who actually does have insomnia but no anxiety about the sleep, just can’t sleep or stays up on her phone, sleep before me). I used to be a great sleeper and honestly would fall asleep in minutes and I still do on a night with less or no anxiety but when I think of the future and upcoming events, it’s really hard to get out of the negative cycle. I will listen to some of your videos and try to apply some of your insights
Anytime Rachy! And you know, the fear that you have a unique case, that you’ll never get better, these are very very common and in no way stand in your way. Rather they’re a sign that you have a typical, normal, brain.
And yes, study some more, let some time pass, take part in this community and you’ll do well 👍
John Monk thank you John for your reply! I’ll try to incorporate it but the thing is I have an upcoming event in a couple of days and last night I only slept 5 hours and I’m worried if I have three sleepless nights up until that event, I will be a zombie and not enjoy it or even function. I’m trying to let myself think it’s ok to not sleep but I really don’t want to die of sleep deprivation or have my event ruined.
I can just relate, this is me, I have had racing heart all day because I am trying to figure out why I am having anxiety, I had a happy day, why I am like this, once the sleep comes I am so aware of it that it feels like something woke me up and I never get back to sleep again. I don’t know how to do nothing, when I tell myself do nothing that’s when my heart start to race. I want my old self back.
Hey there! Thanks for sharing your experience. Just a quick heads-up: we're hosting live Q&A sessions most weeks and we'd love for you to join us! It's a great chance to ask questions, share insights, and connect with others in the community.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Good morning from my end mr Daniel, when is the next Q and A session. I promised myself I wouldn’t cry or worry but after eight nights straight of not sleeping I woke up this morning loosing it and just letting all the emotions out, I feel so devastated, I just want to be alone and yet I don’t want to be alone, looking at my husband how sad he feels for me makes me even feel so sad, I feel like my mood during the day is not positive in the house because I am usually a very happy person. Today I woke up just begging God I want to feel sleep, I want to know what it feels like to sleep, worse for me, medications are not working because I get so frightened anytime I am about to close my eyes, the drowsiness is there fully activated but the sleep never comes or rather, closing my eyes seems to be the scariest thing, I am just tired
She said just watch anxiety and that make me write to you. For two nights I didn’t take any medication. First I try to do nothing just wait for sleep to come naturally but if I feel sleep is coming then I get this specific anxiety ( I think she also talked about this) that pull me away from going to sleep. Then from there on I fall into hyper arousal. Then if enough time pass without falling to sleep I start kind of accepting the situation then I keep the same position in bed, normally looking up, and not giving up to the urge to move to another position. Also I try to follow my breath. During this “effort” (if could be called effort) I also have feet jerks. Any way the first night I struggled for 5 hours (estimated) finally the hyper arousal disappears no more feet jerks and then I fall sleep profoundly because normally the garbage people wake me up at around 6am and this time they didn’t (I slept around two hours). Then I took this as triumph. So the next day I do the same thing accepting and watching anxiety. Didn’t work. I have not tried again out of fear. This is only one experience. Normally I take medications I have lowered the medication in half maybe around 6 to 5 month ago and sleep an average of 3 hours every day (I lowered the medication and want to get rid of it because I start feeling loosing my long term memory and when I lowered it I start feeling normal again). This is the only place l can write about this situation and people understand. Hopefully I will have the determination to get into one of your programs and loose the fear of failure. Thank you very much Daniel and in this case Nina.
So glad you’re here Rafael, and you know I picked up the word triumph and it thought about something that can help:
Remember that insomnia is driven by the narrative in the brain that being awake at night is a threat (aka “bad”) and a problem that has to be dealt with.
It is when the brain tries to “deal with the threat” with fight and flight you become more alert. And the more alert you become, the more being awake seems like a threat and the more fight or flight we have etc. etc.
When you think of sleeping little as a loss, as a defeat or failure, you reinforce the very narrative that causes you to have insomnia.
By the same token, if you think of sleeping a lot as a win, you do the same thing.
So here is the thing - when you sleep well, you can be happy, but don’t look at it as a victory or as having achieved a goal.
Because if you think of it as a win, then you keep that narrative that there is a battle in a fight alive. And it is that narrative that gives you trouble sleeping.
And again when you have a night of little sleep. Just attribute it to the fact that you were a bit anxious or something like that, something obvious, and don’t think of it as a failure. Don’t think of it as a loss because again that reinforces the narrative that there is a fight and a battle.
Win/lose thinking gets us in trouble. So when you sleep well, you can take note of this and allow yourself to feel happy (!) without thinking of it as a win!
Thank you very much Daniel.Your comments are always helpful.
What do I do if I was never a "good sleeper"? Can't remember a period in my life with constant good sleep. Therefore I established the idea that something is wrong with my mind and it will stay forever.
This makes me laugh. I am exactly the same as this woman 🤣🤣
So glad you found this 🙂 it can help so much to find someone like ourselves!
So is recovery basically about releasing all resistance to whatever is going on in the present moment? Or said another way, accepting each moment just as it is. Accepting that I'm awake, accepting that I'm anxious, accepting that I can't stop thinking about sleep, accepting that I'm monitoring when I'm falling asleep... and on and on. By this acceptance, you take the 'teeth' out of the fear, and you are no longer attempting to control anything.
Then paradoxically the brain feels safer, and sleep comes. However, the mind then ramps up again with another fear (it's trying to protect you), and a speedbump arises. You have to learn to accept whatever is coming up once again, as the brain tries to control sleep once more.
Am I getting this right? It's all very Eckhart Tolle isn't it?! In a sense, I can see that insomnia is a gift, by learning to accept the suffering, you can translate this into other areas of life ❤️
Yes, I believe this is the way 🙂
Hello! Just wondering if how are you now?
@@melissasanpablo3493 totally fine. I never even think about my sleep these days
@@JulesBeehive wow good to hear! Hopefully I can also be in your posituon someday. Thank you for replying! 😊
@@melissasanpablo3493 the key is to stop trying to fix your sleep. When you are awake at night, do something that you enjoy. Don't do anything ever again to try to make yourself sleep. Your body knows how to sleep, but we get in the way of this natural process with our worries and fears about not sleeping 💚 If I ever now can't sleep, I just accept that I'm not sleeping, and then ironically, I end up falling asleep 😂 It's very counterintuitive!
I have a question about “doing nothing without intent”. How do you lose the intent? I know we can’t control sleep and I try not to do things *to* fall asleep but I would be lying if I said I don’t secretly hope it achieves that so basically there is always a certain level of intent and I do get some disappointment when it doesn’t happen although I do have awarness of all of this so would that sort of neutralise it?
Hi Maja,
It sounds odd but when we accept that the intent is there, without judgement or criticism, the awareness itself without action leads to it automatically fading.
So I have a question considering there is nothing that can be done to make sleep happen which means sleep efforts and sleep rituals are the actual cause of insomnia and hyperarousual.
My old ignorant self woke up at 12 pm or 2 pm I was playing video games not knowing what time it is.
My body self regulated it self till I was sleepy and relaxed enough but my schedule was messy af, what do u do when u have a job? How would I know that the body will give a clear message when I’m relaxed and sleepy enough for sleep not at 6 5 am where I was going to sleep.
Does a consistent wake up time give me that self regulation message ?
Hi!
Happy to see there’s so much insight and understanding here 👍
And you know this is a natural and common question. I’ll frame it as cues, are these any cues to look for? A common thing you hear is to wait until you feel sleepy, but it’s tricky.
When somebody says that you can go to bed when you feel sleepy, that’s generally speaking a sound tip. But what can happen is that you don’t feel sleepy and you wonder if you should be looking for signs that you are sleepy.
Here’s the thing - sleepiness naturally happens when the body is in need of sleep and we are not hyper aroused. Now looking for sleep cues, actively checking ourselves to see if we are sleepy or not, that makes us hyper aroused and this in itself makes sleep cues absent!
So I think it’s helpful to not know the time, and you can be in bed or not, but when you feel sleepy (without having monitored) you can allow sleep to happen. If you don’t feel sleepy, you may just feel tired. Then you can allow yourself to rest with your eyes closed. Perhaps you are actually sleepy and you’ll sleep, perhaps not.
The most important is just to not self-monitor and then things fall into place by themselves!
I have struggle sleeping with my partner.She has asthma and breathes and snores loudly.What should I do?
Dear Daniel, it is a gift You do. My story goes back 20 years now (started this "percieved threat" aka insomnia). Maybe one day i gonna write or talk about it, because it is a really hard stuff, and full with failures and sorrows..... But now i discovered this fearless method (your video about it) and because i dont left alternatíves: i jumped in it. My question is : if i do it with brave heart, - with the attitude of just let be, come what have to come dont worry about, not controlling- it is just enough? I keep doing it now since 2 nights with just 0 or 1 our of sleep, trust in that we r strong and well created to cope with it. So does this method finished in a good sleeped night after few more sleepless night ? Is it an automatic function in us, right? More over, there are many examples in human history when people didnt slept for years, and happened: nothing! And they even didnt cried about it, didnt cared so the "let go of effort" way always existed. We complicate the things in this modern age, arent we? Summary: the fearless method for me seems the only real answer for this "percieved threat" (insomnia). I go ahead in it, do as far i sleep, because nothing else left, let myself to be effortless,. See that mind functions (thoughts, emotions) can come, welcome but not attach them, even emotionilism is a trap. We always cry about past things.. (your roadmap is super: past events and miseries cant stop sleep to happen) And recognize that Life solute all misery,.....somehow. Thank you for your uplifting work, your videos, finally i found you (after so many sad years) i give thanks for it. Sorry for my english, i am not native :) greetings Daniel, Hungary
Dear Daniel,
I’m so so glad you did find this channel and this community even if it was after so many years. I’m so glad you’re here and your English makes perfect sense.
And you know to answer your question - the tricky thing is that sleep requires nothing. It’s when we start doing things to achieve sleep that there’s a struggle. And this applies to everything really, like the fearless way.
You’re sleeping little, and this can very well be because you’re trying the fearless way hoping that it will make you sleep!
The tricky thing is that the fearless way is a way to become more ok with uncertainty and being awake and discomfort, rather than the opposite of trying to be awake less!
So the question of whether “it is just enough” is sort of unanswerable because the answer is that nothing is “enough”. Or absence of effort is “enough”.
It’s a bit tricky and paradoxical but as you learn and spend some time here it will make more and more sense. Welcome again Daniel and be in touch!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you Daniel! I trust that - because no other alternative left - i stand face to face with it and it has to be very simple. Simplicity is like the child trust in his Fathers command when He says to his child : trust in me, i ll do just the best for you. So if i complicate (it is a danger by me after so many detour) this march forward or fearless method, with more intellectual overthinking will led to deep disappointment. So it is the best - to keep all it simple. I Understood that desire and effort makes the problem, so effortles in my case means i humble myself and with gentle heart face towards what have to come just come. What else left? Nothing. At this point some very simple instruction is enogh, everything else more could turn the whole process gigantic effort (i know myself). So if i found your very simple formula ( from o z to immunity) already, that is enough. No efforts, let it go, and just forget about overthinking, and forget about to controll it. Surrender. . That is for me ok. No effort (by me) means : not thinking and acting like before, when i tried to do everything to coordinate the sleep. I only wanted to ask or sharpen: that is it automatism in us that after a some (2,3, 4 etc) days we fall sleep anyway? Because it is like breathing or the function of organs no? We were created that way. They work without any of our will, or controll or effort. We r very strongly and well designed. As i understood after 20 years of distorted sleep. We r in safehands....anyway. Our being is the provement of it.
Yes yes, I believe all you said here to be so true and the way to peace 😊 and exactly, nobody is a “good breather”, we just never even think like that. Breathing and sleep and creating thoughts… those are just things that happen, and we get into some struggle when we try to control them, let them be and there’s no struggle. Well said!!
Not related to this video but I'm curious what you suggest for people who wakeup several times per night for just a few minutes but ARE able to fall back asleep each time. Just waking up too much.
Absolutely, happy to share some thoughts on this. In the context of insomnia, it’s not that common to have many short awakenings because it’s a fear driven process. Either you have long times awake and scared, or you have very fragmented sleep but it’s not distinct awakenings. It’s more a sense of not even know if your were awake or asleep, countless episodes of drifting in an out that feels like vivid dreams or time skipping ahead. So yes if someone wakes up many times but isn’t bothered by this and easily fall back asleep, doesn’t sound like insomnia.
On the other hand if they have that vivid dream, not sure I slept, time is skipping ahead, then I share some thoughts on this which I call hyper sleep:
Hyper sleep is when your sleep is infused with hyperarousal. It’s like driving a car with the brake pushed down. Sleep drive and hyperarousal are both present and you can have vivid, bizarre dreams, you can’t tell if you were awake or you slept, you spent the whole night in superficial sleep state or that you time travelled (time skips ahead but you’re not sure you slept).
The first thing to know is that hyper sleep is super common and a part of the journey. Nothing strange or unusual! It’s again simply some hyperarousal making sleep superficial.
Secondly, you sleep more than it seems when you have hyper sleep! Just knowing this can often be reassuring.
Most importantly, when you know the above and don’t respond, just let it be so to speak, these experiences fade along with the hyperarousal.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you, that makes sense. :)
So glad it did!
Hi Daniel. I get this 100% it makes so much sense, but I STILL have so much fear and anxiety so it persists. What type of advise do you have for someone who can understand this entirely but I can’t move from “here to there” where all your students can?
Hi Sam I can relate to this because I was in a place where I knew more than enough, and it made sense, and I knew exactly what to do but still there was this lingering anxiety and fear in the background, but the more frustrated I was that anxiety is still there the more it persisted. It’s the same with insomnia - when you are frustrated or annoyed with it, it persists. Trying to control sleep results in insomnia. Trying to control or stop anxiety results in more anxiety + suffering. Really resisting anything results in suffering and the problem persists. What helped me was the same approach as insomnia - I realised I can’t control sleep and so I stopped and allowed things to be as the were. The last step was to allow anxiety to be there without trying to change it or control it. Sleep Anxiety is just an automated response of the nervous system, after many nights of sleep related fear, the brain instructs the nervous system to launch the fight or flight mode to protect us from what we fear so much. And although we don’t care about sleep anymore, anxiety is still there because it’s has been a dominant mode for so long, it won’t switch off overnight and that’s the sign that your brain works as it should :) it’s absolutely normal. When I understood that anxiety is not my fault but it’s simply this automated program that brain is running to protect us, I just accepted it. It will fade away with time, after a long time of being alert and anxious, our nerves become sensitised and we feel anxiety even when there are no triggers. But when we accept anxiety for what it is and understand that it’s just sensitive nerves and an automated protective mechanism, when we stop fighting and resisting (because what’s the point?) that’s when self-regulation begins .. it’s just how our bodies work and when I accepted it and understood how simple it is, just allowing and not resisting became easy and things started gradually improving for me.. I hope this helps :)
@@ninasimonovic6852 Really enjoyed your interview & it resonated so much.I like you had great sleep for years, but insomnia started with the pandemic.I just find it hard to do or think of nothing when my head hits the pillow.Do you just try and be present?
@@abigailhepworth5996 Hi Abigail, so glad you could relate to this...if you think back to when you slept well, what did you do or think when your head hit the pillow? Did you try to think nothing, did you pay attention to thoughts, or try to think a certain way? When you really analyse what it was like when you slept well, it might be hard to remember because normal sleepers don't do anything at all when their head hits the pillow, and if you ask them what do they do to fall asleep, they'll say "nothing", they have no special skills like being present or staying in a meditative state, they have no idea how to fall asleep or how to control thoughts. I'm sure if you think back to when you slept well you will also find that the process of falling asleep was effortless, there were no special skills or techniques, and you paid no attention to sleep. Can you copy this kind of approach again and just relax into it? when I started analysing the exact mindset I had when I slept great I realised that it was completely efortless, I just shut my eyes, relaxed, and let my thoughts drift without thinking anything in particular and sleep came very soon. Of course, if we think too much and actively analyse sth, it would be more difficult to fall asleep, it's really just about relaxing and letting your thoughts drift...kinda like when you fall asleep on a sofa while watching TV, how do you that? :), what helped me when i went to bed, was that I knew that sleep will come at some point, i didnt care if it was 5 minutes or an hour or more, I decided to just enjoy some relaxation in bed and allow sleep to come whenever it's ready, and I would genuinely enjoy relaxing and it was nice to just do nothing after a busy day. i would compare it to a computer, when it's not running any programs actively it starts going into sleep mode...and when we go to bed and just relax, and do nothing, our brains go into sleeping mode. Hope this helps you :)
@@ninasimonovic6852 Thank you so much for replying.You are right of course.I have just become super aware.I have done an ACT course which has really helped me in accepting anxiety and panic and they encourage quiet wakefulness, where you just rest.I am ok with that now and don’t fear being awake at night.Sometimes I do just fall asleep.But it’s just going off that I find so hard, I can be there for hours
@@ninasimonovic6852 Thank you so much for all your insight, I felt as though you were speaking directly to me. You mentioned how you just did nothing and kept thoughts of how you were before sleep anxiety to help recover, but I want to know was it difficult at first to keep your mind off of anxiety and insomnia? I’m at the stage of where I’m no longer afraid of anxiety or sleep anxiety and I’ve accepted to be satisfied with whatever amount of sleep I get each night, but even with that, I still find it difficult to move on throughout the day without thinking it so much. Is this something that will fade away with more time? I have little to no anxiety throughout the day, but it’s always something in the back of my mind that makes me feel like I’m expecting it to return again. I have few nights during the week with anxiety when I go to bed, so I’m wondering why is this still so difficult to let go when things are getting so much better?
Hey Daniel! How is that when even i dont feel any anxiety, or dont have rushing thoughts, etc. I still cant get to sleep and i toss and turn for hours in bed? Even on days when i work 14 hours - physical work - this happens. I am not dreading the sleep but still, i turn to Ambien which is the only thing that helps me get to sleep fast. I am very annoyed by this, and i just cant seem to wrap my mind around it.
Thanks for your answer :)
Hi Gabor!
You know, this is a very common experience/question. Thanks for asking, I’m sure many wonder this so let’s review!
I call this trailing insomnia by the way.
It can often seem odd that you don’t sleep even though you’re not anxious. Of course it does because if anxiety was the reason you had trouble sleeping, then when it fades you should sleep right?
Here’s the thing, anything that makes us hyperaroused can keep sleep from happening. Imagine a kid before Christmas for example. They’re excited, not anxious.
You know what else can create hyperarousal? Curiousity! Or puzzlement, being bewildered.
So when you’re thinking “I’m not anxious so why am I not sleeping?” the answer is right there. It’s now the curiosity that’s keeping you awake!
A natural next question becomes, so how do I become less curious? Guess what, you probably already have. Because when you understand something, there’s no mystery and less for the brain to figure out.
But the best of all is that you’re less anxious. That may not seem like a big step right now because you slept little, but it is.
As the anxiety fades and you’re no longer puzzled, sleep will come to you!
Did this make sense?
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Absolutely! Thank you, you are the best! It can really feel like you are alone in this struggle - as im typing my roomate next to me is sleeping like a baby so jealous lol - but finding this channel and just the thought of it, that there are many people here who has the same struggle can help a lot.
So glad it made sense! And absolutely, you’re not alone and you can learn so much from this struggle that will give you a peace and understanding your roommate may never have 😊
Hi, the book she recommendeds ‘The power of now’ ? please can you confirm the author, I’ve bought your book Set it and forget it Daniel thanks.
Hi Greg, yes it is, by Eckhardt Tolle. Hope you’ll like it and thanks for the support 🤗
Daniel I think I just had an aha moment
I kept repeating in my head “perceived threat” all day. I don’t know why. (it was from a video you have) I’m not sure what you said exactly but then it hit me
Why am I looking at sleep as a threat if it’s something I can’t, NOBODY can control. Therefore looking at it as a threat is pointless. I have no control over it.
Am I wrong somewhere if so please help. Thank you sir have a blessed day
This is it Leticia, so simple when you see it, but it can take a lot of learning and pondering before it’s clear. But this is all. So glad to read this 😊!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 It makes total sense!! But what now Daniel?
I’m still kinda concerned what if I can’t sleep or is it all that fear or not being able to sleep the only thing that I needed to see?
It makes sense I was doing x y z worrying about sleep but I can’t control it so I might as well not worry but anything else I need to address?
You’re saving people’s lives Daniel and you deserve the world sir just wanted to throw that out there you’re doing amazing work
Glad it does!
And you know, it can help to know that it’s totally normal to worry about missing something.
Check out episode 338, I think it can answer lots of questions!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 I watched it! You know I get it but I think I need to practice it . I understand I can’t press a button on me and fall asleep so there’s no point stressing about sleep right?
I guess what I’ve noticed is let’s say I have somewhere to be in the morning and I haven’t slept I should just be okay with being awake bc I can’t control but eventually I will if I let it be ok right
Also if I don’t sleep sometimes or very little that’s okay too right
Thanks for checking it out!
And absolutely, even if something makes total logical sense, it takes a while for it to sink in.
And what you said here, I believe this 100%. When things are not in our control, we in a way have no alternative than be ok with them, anything else would just make us fight reality and make us more frustrated. So yes, this is the way!
I got no sleep last night. My mind keeps telling me that I'll get fired or I'll have a car accident if I don't sleep therefore it jolts me awake :( what do I do??
Hi Christian,
Sorry to hear this, but glad you’re here and you know, you’ve identified something super helpful- thoughts can make us scared. Ideas are all that insomnia is.
When we see this, this is big because we can see clearly when we are struggling. It’s really just these thoughts, which are sentences in our brains, nothing more or less.
Now apart from seeing the above, what can we do? I think there are basically two ways to meet these types of thoughts:
There are two principally very different ways to meet thoughts that give rise to discomfort or emotions that are not comfortable.
And these two ways are in a way the opposite of each other so things can sort of get confusing when you ponder certain teaching points here and then compare them with others.
On one hand you have the analogy of the toddler who’s trying to get your attention by unwanted activity. You realize that the unwanted activity is maintained by you giving the toddler attention, even screaming at them to stop (!) is a way to give them attention, and you see that ignoring them is the best next step. When you start ignoring the toddler they may initially try even harder with that unwanted activity to try to get your attention, but if you just keep ignoring them, they eventually give up and start playing with their toys instead.
This is an analogy of basically dismissing thoughts and emotions that are uncomfortable.
A practical example would be when you feel somewhat anxious and you decide to go for a bike ride. You’re basically dismissing anxiety and sometimes this is the right thing to do! Sometimes you enjoy the bike ride and forget all about anxiety.
But sometimes, if the thoughts or emotions are more deeply rooted, then trying to ignore them actually isn’t helpful at all.
Let’s imagine that the toddler actually had something very important to tell you. And they knew this. Let’s say they were trying to tell you that there was a leak in the bathroom.
In this case, the more you try to ignore the toddler, the more persistently they would try to tell you something important. The more you try not to give them attention, the more they would annoy you and scream at you and really try to make you see that there’s a real problem.
In this case, the best thing to do is to listen. The best is to not try to escape or distract yourself but the present for all the thoughts and emotions even if they cause discomfort.
Come back to the analogy, if you listen to the toddler in this case and they see this, well then they no longer have a need to warn you!
So in summary, there are two ways to meet discomfort. One is to dismiss and one is to listen.
Dismissal works when the thoughts or emotions are not very persistent or deeply seated. On the other hand when the brain is really concerned about something, the best thing to do is to actually listen and to imagine the things that the brain is trying to warn you about. Be present and allow yourself to feel even the discomfort.
And when the brain sees that you’re listening, it will no longer feel a need to warn you!
Did this make sense Christian?
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 yes, thanks Daniel!
Glad it did!
I was pleasantly surprised recently to learn that as yet there is NO proof that missed sleep impacts our wellbeing/lifespan in any way.
Did Nina have other physical symptoms of anxiety?
Hi Trish,
I can’t remember from the talk, but I’d be very surprised if she didn’t
Don't you think that insomina can be there because of medication? So that you can't sleep anymore because of medication.
Thanks for your comment! Just a quick heads-up: we're hosting live Q&A sessions most weeks and we'd love for you to join us! It's a great chance to ask questions, share insights, and connect with others in the community.