@@CarmenJoyImesPhD I wanted to know what the best explanation for the self reference of God in the third person was. I pointed out that this always seems to support a Trinitarian reading of the prophetic books that use this as one person referring to another within the Godhead. Furthermore, the messenger of Yahweh seems to not speak on behalf of God but speak as God, claiming in Judges that he brought the Hebrews out of Egypt and they made a covenant with him. Further, those who saw him believed that they would die just as those who saw God. Hagar claims that seeing the messenger was to see God. Philo describes this messenger as the angel of many names and then lists three titles ascribed to Christ--first-born, the Word, and the image of the invisible God. When the evidence piles up, it doesn't seem as if we can just write these oddities within the prophets off so easily, especially since those within the Bible called this messenger God and a contemporary of Jesus ascribed titles to Christ which both Paul and the Apostle John did as well.
I'm still not sure what to think of this passage, but on the bright side, another sighting of the COVID19 key to understanding ancient Israel cultic purity!!! My new favourite analogy! ;) excited for next week!
Thanks for explaining this! I never fully understood your view and remember when you told Tim you viewed this section as Israel passing the test and he was taken back! When we step back and realize that people constantly need to be reminded of the way God wants things to be done, your view makes a lot more sense. He is establishing his priesthood, and the people must recognize their need for a mediator. This helps the New Testament make more sense when it goes into the discussion of Jesus as our perfect mediator (1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 8:6; 12:24). We still need the go-between to bring us to God's presence, which is perfectly mediated through Jesus. The priesthood was the copy and shadow, but the people still needed that buffer to God's presence or they would be destroyed. This helps link the Old and New, so thanks again for your hard work and sharing what the Spirit has led you to.
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD Hearing your story on JM Smith's Disciple Dojo channel, I'm happy you were convinced to become a scholar! Thank God for not silencing your voice. You helped me a lot through my Pentateuch course in Bible College!
I can't even imagine Dr Imes and everyone who reads my comment, the fact that Adam and Eve lived with the full power of God's glory before sin entered the world. Although we now pay the consequences of participating in the knowledge of evil, one day we will see it face to face. Meanwhile the I Am keeps its glory out of our reach. Not even Moses could see the face of God because he would have died on that mountain of the covenant at Sinai.
Thanks Dr Imes, interesting stuff and I’d to give the podcast between you and Tim Mackey a listen but can’t see the link in the description. It could be me giving it a ‘Daddy look’, as opposed to a ‘Mummy look’ 😂. Grateful if you could send the link please or the name of the podcast so I can find it that way. Thank you 👍Hope you have a great week 🎉
Enjoyed this as always. Re: the interpretation of ‘don’t touch/come on up…I’m all in on #3. My reasoning: #1 as a test is confusing. God tests, but (in my opinion) He doesn’t play potentially confusing ‘games,’ especially when it’s life and death. My take on #2 includes a bit of my #1 thoughts-it’s potentially confusing. I choose #3 because while the leaders, like the first two, requires the leaders to abide by the same ritual purity rules as the whole of Israel, something some of today’s leaders would do well to recognize. But, also, there’s an additional requirement of obedience…they would be summoned to come up. It would be disobedient not to come up and also to fall prey to hubris and come up before the Lord makes the call. Leadership needs to be especially aware of the holiness of our Lord and not to disrespect it simply because they are the visible example the Lord’s people are following. My two cents!
Am I the only one who thinks it's simply that the blowing of the ram's horn was the signal that God's presence on the mountain that day had concluded (left) and therefore any regular activity on the mountain, if one had any, could be resumed?
I'm really enjoying your walk through the Torah! Thank you! It seems to me that Tim Mackie's view is at least more interesting. Because of your work and that of some other folks like Michael Heiser, I have been trying to understand the culture to which the Bible was written. My "exhaustive search" with a single question in ChatGPT offered up some information that a trumpet or at least some musical instruments were used to herald the King in Ancient Near East contexts. Maybe Yahweh really was giving His people an actual opportunity to be in His presence! That would have been amazing! And if it was an opportunity they missed, how devastating for the rest of their story-much like them missing the opportunity to go in and take possession of the Promised Land.
Do we need to select 1 of the 3 possibilities right away? Perhaps the best explanation is given later and we are to hold our decision in abeyance until later clarification.
Good presentation! I favor 3rd interpretation, only Aaron midway up. & later the elders, people at the base of Sinai. Also in harmony with Rambam’s unique triads comparison of Mt Sinai with the Tabernacle arrangement.
re: Death by holiness - entering the nuclear reactor chamber without donning the specially designed garments that help provide protection from radioactive particles and liquids. // Metaphorically, Revelation's white garments ~ riffing on the Pauline "those hidden in Christ" meme
Great analogy explaining ritual impurity. Very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
That office just gets me every time. I love bookshelves and so many books. I was looking to seeif you covered verse 11. But I don't think you did.
Hi Sean, did you have a particular question about v. 11? You're right that I didn't really talk about it.
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD I wanted to know what the best explanation for the self reference of God in the third person was. I pointed out that this always seems to support a Trinitarian reading of the prophetic books that use this as one person referring to another within the Godhead.
Furthermore, the messenger of Yahweh seems to not speak on behalf of God but speak as God, claiming in Judges that he brought the Hebrews out of Egypt and they made a covenant with him. Further, those who saw him believed that they would die just as those who saw God. Hagar claims that seeing the messenger was to see God. Philo describes this messenger as the angel of many names and then lists three titles ascribed to Christ--first-born, the Word, and the image of the invisible God. When the evidence piles up, it doesn't seem as if we can just write these oddities within the prophets off so easily, especially since those within the Bible called this messenger God and a contemporary of Jesus ascribed titles to Christ which both Paul and the Apostle John did as well.
I'm still not sure what to think of this passage, but on the bright side, another sighting of the COVID19 key to understanding ancient Israel cultic purity!!! My new favourite analogy! ;) excited for next week!
Haha!
Thanks for explaining this! I never fully understood your view and remember when you told Tim you viewed this section as Israel passing the test and he was taken back!
When we step back and realize that people constantly need to be reminded of the way God wants things to be done, your view makes a lot more sense. He is establishing his priesthood, and the people must recognize their need for a mediator. This helps the New Testament make more sense when it goes into the discussion of Jesus as our perfect mediator (1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 8:6; 12:24). We still need the go-between to bring us to God's presence, which is perfectly mediated through Jesus.
The priesthood was the copy and shadow, but the people still needed that buffer to God's presence or they would be destroyed. This helps link the Old and New, so thanks again for your hard work and sharing what the Spirit has led you to.
So glad you found this helpful!
@@CarmenJoyImesPhD Hearing your story on JM Smith's Disciple Dojo channel, I'm happy you were convinced to become a scholar! Thank God for not silencing your voice. You helped me a lot through my Pentateuch course in Bible College!
I can't even imagine Dr Imes and everyone who reads my comment, the fact that Adam and Eve lived with the full power of God's glory before sin entered the world. Although we now pay the consequences of participating in the knowledge of evil, one day we will see it face to face. Meanwhile the I Am keeps its glory out of our reach. Not even Moses could see the face of God because he would have died on that mountain of the covenant at Sinai.
Indeed!
Thanks Dr Imes, interesting stuff and I’d to give the podcast between you and Tim Mackey a listen but can’t see the link in the description. It could be me giving it a ‘Daddy look’, as opposed to a ‘Mummy look’ 😂. Grateful if you could send the link please or the name of the podcast so I can find it that way. Thank you 👍Hope you have a great week 🎉
Sorry about that! Here's a link: bibleproject.com/podcast/two-takes-test-mount-sinai/
Enjoyed this as always. Re: the interpretation of ‘don’t touch/come on up…I’m all in on #3. My reasoning: #1 as a test is confusing. God tests, but (in my opinion) He doesn’t play potentially confusing ‘games,’ especially when it’s life and death. My take on #2 includes a bit of my #1 thoughts-it’s potentially confusing. I choose #3 because while the leaders, like the first two, requires the leaders to abide by the same ritual purity rules as the whole of Israel, something some of today’s leaders would do well to recognize. But, also, there’s an additional requirement of obedience…they would be summoned to come up. It would be disobedient not to come up and also to fall prey to hubris and come up before the Lord makes the call. Leadership needs to be especially aware of the holiness of our Lord and not to disrespect it simply because they are the visible example the Lord’s people are following. My two cents!
Thanks for your thoughts, Debi!
Am I the only one who thinks it's simply that the blowing of the ram's horn was the signal that God's presence on the mountain that day had concluded (left) and therefore any regular activity on the mountain, if one had any, could be resumed?
That is another great possibility!
I'm really enjoying your walk through the Torah! Thank you!
It seems to me that Tim Mackie's view is at least more interesting. Because of your work and that of some other folks like Michael Heiser, I have been trying to understand the culture to which the Bible was written. My "exhaustive search" with a single question in ChatGPT offered up some information that a trumpet or at least some musical instruments were used to herald the King in Ancient Near East contexts. Maybe Yahweh really was giving His people an actual opportunity to be in His presence! That would have been amazing! And if it was an opportunity they missed, how devastating for the rest of their story-much like them missing the opportunity to go in and take possession of the Promised Land.
Next week I'll offer the seven reasons why I think they were *not* supposed to ascend the mountain. Hopefully it's helpful!
Dr. David DeSilva has a great series on clean and unclean on UA-cam. Its older but really good.
Nice! Thanks for letting me know!
Do we need to select 1 of the 3 possibilities right away? Perhaps the best explanation is given later and we are to hold our decision in abeyance until later clarification.
I think that's exactly right, actually! The ambiguity draws us in.
Good presentation! I favor 3rd interpretation, only Aaron midway up. & later the elders, people at the base of Sinai. Also in harmony with Rambam’s unique triads comparison of Mt Sinai with the Tabernacle arrangement.
Yes, indeed! That approach works well.
re: Death by holiness - entering the nuclear reactor chamber without donning the specially designed garments that help provide protection from radioactive particles and liquids. // Metaphorically, Revelation's white garments ~ riffing on the Pauline "those hidden in Christ" meme
Indeed! Another good analogy.