This is possibly my favourite biblical debate: whether or not Israel should have ascended the mountain. I have also loved Caleb Lewis contribution where he points out lots fear of going up the mountain after being rescued from an impure city.
Looking at the imagery in this scene there is a lot! Just some thoughts that standout as I sip my tea! 😊. The cosmic epic display of thunder, lighting, loud horns blasting and the third day… with the separated one Moses called to the mountain top. Seems like we hear another story with a much more epic third day result with Jesus resurrection. I also love the idea of the access levels of the mountain and how it translates later to the tabernacle and temple. I think that the wisdom of YHWH is on full display here, which is difficult to decipher and the insight you’ve shared is so helpful! Thank you!
I loved this video. I remember Isaiah´s vision in chapter 6 and probably he remembers this moment at Sinai...and to think in both moments is awesome..! Thanks Dra. Carmen
Fascinating! Love your comments about the approach to a diety or king taking a roundabout route! Reminds me of what Robert Alter says about the WAY a passage is written gives us insight into the meaning :) What I appreciate most about this view is the reverence for and recognition of what a big deal it is to enter into God’s presence! Something that nowadays many fail to recognize! Thanks for this!!!
Dr Imes, thank you for all your work. I am studying at DTS and I follow your writings and this channel closely. For these passages, I tend to agree with you. I don't think it is spiritually up-ending to be in the opposite camp (like Dr Mackie here). However, it feels like your interpretation actually flows better with everything else that happens. Thank you, God bless, שלום שלום
That was fascinating. I like your interpretation; it makes sense especially in light of how many accounts of events, moments in the Old Testament are written in counterpoint to common idol worship practices with God establishing himself as the God of gods, Lord of lords, Creator and King. I would think ancient people hearing these accounts would have been able to understand in a way we don’t.
I agree with that interpretation. There is the same idea in Isa 2:3 And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let’s go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; So that He may teach us about His ways, And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go out from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. What I'm thinking right now is that: is it possible, that by not ascending the mountain and by humiliating themselves, and by understanding that they need a mediator, they actually ascended the mountain in a symbolic way. Because this symbolic way, in my understanding means that ascending the mountain means to accept God as our Superior, to accept his law and be willing to follow it.
The dense nature of ancient literature gives me such a sense of humility. I'm so used to everything being neat and tidy from the way we communicate today. All the small tidbits that leaves ambiguity and gives the potential for undesirable implications can make one feel either uncomfortable or humbled. For me, it's humility. Good reasoning, Dr. Imes, though I don't feel I get the gravity of the contention 🤷🏾♂️
It's a bit unsettling to have some people thinking chapter 19 is a model (Israel passed the test) and others who think it was a missed opportunity (Israel failed the test). Ultimately it doesn't change the Christian experience, since we're on the other side of the cross, but it does change the way we process the literary design and might impact how we conceive of the purpose of OT law.
The thing is that God in his immense compassion does not take pleasure in our death, nor in that of unbelievers. He knows our defects and virtues, and may we learn to approach His presence with reverence. How can we approach his presence with stains in our lives without paying the consequences?
I believe the vision of John in Revelation uses Exodus 19:16-19 with the combination of thunders and lightings, smoke and trumpet sounds, and the trembling of people and the earth, as allusions to God's powerful Presence in the heavens and breaking through on the earth. I see it in Revelation 4:5, 8:5, 16:18. In the first case it magnifies God's Presence at the heart of heaven in worship. In the second it emphasizes God's Presence as a protection to His people, blending it with the censor imagery of Numbers 16. And in the third, it emphasizes the fact that God's presence will bring destruction to the infrastructres of wickedness, ending the power of Babylon.
So next week is starting the Decalogue... . Hmmm big task. Going to watch with great interest. Thank you for making it public. You seem to be correct about the people not being permitted to ascend. I dont think Tim Mackie is correct on many debatable things, (as an authority) but the formate of BP ppl find excellent anyway. I mean you don't need to clarify 😊.
Hi Dr. Imes! This is unrelated to this video, but I recently saw a clip of you saying that the Jews substituted the vowel marks for adonai over YHWH to avoid accidental pronunciation. But Dr. David C. Mitchell argues that "This might be convincing if the Masoretic vowels for the Tetragrammaton were indeed those of Adonai. But since they patently are not, the argument collapses. For while the Masoretic vowels for the Tetragrammaton are sheva, ḥolam, and qamats,the vowels of Adonai are ḥataf pataḥ, ḥolam, and qamats. If the Masoretes intended that Adonai should be read, why did they write sheva instead of ḥataf pataḥ?" Do you think his reasoning is valid? I don't know Hebrew myself so I'm just curious.
A good question! What I gave is a simplified explanation for non-Hebrew speakers. I think the more complex version of the story is that it's the vowels of the Aramaic substitute ("the Name'), which is the equivalent of Adonai in that both are substituted for the divine name YHWH. I haven't thought about this in a while, so you should definitely check a scholarly source to confirm.
Thank you for refs to Sinai, 3 levels of access to God, pattern to Tabernacle ...used in church presentation, full attribution!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Dr Imes, another enjoyable dive into Exodus. Hope you have a great day 👍
Thanks, you too!
The Book of Romans and the book of Hebrews make so much more sense now since I've been studying Exodus
Hurrah!!
This is possibly my favourite biblical debate: whether or not Israel should have ascended the mountain. I have also loved Caleb Lewis contribution where he points out lots fear of going up the mountain after being rescued from an impure city.
Thanks for watching!
Good presentation & well argued. I agree with your thesis!
Glad you liked it!
>>> " our own holiness." - I like that, He made us holy.
Very insightful! This was a new perspective to me.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Looking at the imagery in this scene there is a lot! Just some thoughts that standout as I sip my tea! 😊. The cosmic epic display of thunder, lighting, loud horns blasting and the third day… with the separated one Moses called to the mountain top. Seems like we hear another story with a much more epic third day result with Jesus resurrection. I also love the idea of the access levels of the mountain and how it translates later to the tabernacle and temple. I think that the wisdom of YHWH is on full display here, which is difficult to decipher and the insight you’ve shared is so helpful! Thank you!
Thanks for your comments!
Good stuff! I appreciate your thoughtful insight. Subscribed!
Welcome aboard! Glad you liked it.
I loved this video. I remember Isaiah´s vision in chapter 6 and probably he remembers this moment at Sinai...and to think in both moments is awesome..! Thanks Dra. Carmen
Yes! Thank you!
Fascinating! Love your comments about the approach to a diety or king taking a roundabout route! Reminds me of what Robert Alter says about the WAY a passage is written gives us insight into the meaning :)
What I appreciate most about this view is the reverence for and recognition of what a big deal it is to enter into God’s presence! Something that nowadays many fail to recognize!
Thanks for this!!!
Thanks, Casie! Blessings to you!
Dr Imes, thank you for all your work. I am studying at DTS and I follow your writings and this channel closely. For these passages, I tend to agree with you. I don't think it is spiritually up-ending to be in the opposite camp (like Dr Mackie here). However, it feels like your interpretation actually flows better with everything else that happens. Thank you, God bless, שלום שלום
Thanks for your comment, Victor. Blessings on your studies!
There were disciples; there were the 12; then there were the inner circle of Peter, James & John…❤
True! It's a similar concept!
That was fascinating. I like your interpretation; it makes sense especially in light of how many accounts of events, moments in the Old Testament are written in counterpoint to common idol worship practices with God establishing himself as the God of gods, Lord of lords, Creator and King. I would think ancient people hearing these accounts would have been able to understand in a way we don’t.
Thanks, Debi!
I agree with that interpretation. There is the same idea in Isa 2:3 And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let’s go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; So that He may teach us about His ways, And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go out from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
What I'm thinking right now is that: is it possible, that by not ascending the mountain and by humiliating themselves, and by understanding that they need a mediator, they actually ascended the mountain in a symbolic way. Because this symbolic way, in my understanding means that ascending the mountain means to accept God as our Superior, to accept his law and be willing to follow it.
That's a decent explanation!
The dense nature of ancient literature gives me such a sense of humility. I'm so used to everything being neat and tidy from the way we communicate today. All the small tidbits that leaves ambiguity and gives the potential for undesirable implications can make one feel either uncomfortable or humbled. For me, it's humility. Good reasoning, Dr. Imes, though I don't feel I get the gravity of the contention 🤷🏾♂️
It's a bit unsettling to have some people thinking chapter 19 is a model (Israel passed the test) and others who think it was a missed opportunity (Israel failed the test). Ultimately it doesn't change the Christian experience, since we're on the other side of the cross, but it does change the way we process the literary design and might impact how we conceive of the purpose of OT law.
@CarmenJoyImesPhD thanks for explaining that. Makes sense now.
The thing is that God in his immense compassion does not take pleasure in our death, nor in that of unbelievers. He knows our defects and virtues, and may we learn to approach His presence with reverence. How can we approach his presence with stains in our lives without paying the consequences?
Good point!
I believe the vision of John in Revelation uses Exodus 19:16-19 with the combination of thunders and lightings, smoke and trumpet sounds, and the trembling of people and the earth, as allusions to God's powerful Presence in the heavens and breaking through on the earth. I see it in Revelation 4:5, 8:5, 16:18. In the first case it magnifies God's Presence at the heart of heaven in worship. In the second it emphasizes God's Presence as a protection to His people, blending it with the censor imagery of Numbers 16. And in the third, it emphasizes the fact that God's presence will bring destruction to the infrastructres of wickedness, ending the power of Babylon.
Love this!
So next week is starting the Decalogue... . Hmmm big task. Going to watch with great interest. Thank you for making it public.
You seem to be correct about the people not being permitted to ascend. I dont think Tim Mackie is correct on many debatable things, (as an authority) but the formate of BP ppl find excellent anyway. I mean you don't need to clarify 😊.
I hope it's a helpful series!
Hi Dr. Imes! This is unrelated to this video, but I recently saw a clip of you saying that the Jews substituted the vowel marks for adonai over YHWH to avoid accidental pronunciation. But Dr. David C. Mitchell argues that
"This might be convincing if the Masoretic vowels for the Tetragrammaton were indeed those of Adonai. But since they patently are not, the argument collapses. For while the Masoretic vowels for the Tetragrammaton are sheva, ḥolam, and qamats,the vowels of Adonai are ḥataf pataḥ, ḥolam, and qamats. If the Masoretes intended that Adonai should be read, why did they write sheva instead of ḥataf pataḥ?"
Do you think his reasoning is valid? I don't know Hebrew myself so I'm just curious.
A good question! What I gave is a simplified explanation for non-Hebrew speakers. I think the more complex version of the story is that it's the vowels of the Aramaic substitute ("the Name'), which is the equivalent of Adonai in that both are substituted for the divine name YHWH. I haven't thought about this in a while, so you should definitely check a scholarly source to confirm.