How to Install Roof Beams to Support a Cathedral Ceiling | This Old House
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2020
- Tom and Charlie Silva create a cathedral ceiling on the 3rd floor of the Cape Ann house.
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The Cape Ann house original roof was held up by a traditional truss system. The homeowners want to create a cathedral ceiling in this third-floor bonus room. Kevin O'Connor helps Tom and Charlie Silva install a beam system that will support the roof without the truss.
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How to Install Roof Beams to Support a Cathedral Ceiling | This Old House
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Easy enough. Gonna get my mom to help me this weekend.
Selector Ali Baba
You should be able to knock it out in an hour or two!
@@randyd3649 .....and sandwiches..
LOL, that's funny! As I was watching this video I was thinking that men do all the hard, dirty and crappy jobs and women don't want to acknowledge or appreciate it.
@DR PHIL but☝️ we acknowledge and appreciate it
They dont explain the metal brackets. The fasteners used etc. In my mind the rafters are still attatched to the side of the new ridge beam. Not on top. So there is side load against ridge beam. Where if the rafters were partially or alltogethor on top of the ridge beam more load would be pushing down. Instead of out.
I miss my days as a carpenter. Great satisfaction from these types of jobs.
I'd feel like I could do literally anything construction related if I had Tommy looking over my shoulder.
It will cost you a lots.
Really stunning !!!
Exactly what the foreman said.
What a difference 1 beam can make.
Great space constructed
Absolutely love how he pulled out the tape measure and used it as a pointer
Tommy is the best of the best. Master of all trades. Amazing guy.
Bravo to you guys. Nicely done.
Tom and Charlie are incredibly talented guys. And Kevin is also there.
I have come in time to appreciate Kevin. It looks like he isn't learning, that he doesn't know what's going on, but I realized he asks questions he already knows the answer to for the sake of informing the audience, similar to the critical role of the 'straight man' in comedy.
@@2993LP I agree with you completely. Kevin does his job perfectly. I was just being sassy.
Beautiful! A great renovation done the proper way.
Bravo to the homeowner for making the unplanned change. I would've been reluctant to be annoy the crew, but the end result was well worth the cost.
"Favorited" I have been working as a general contractor- primarily a carpenter for 6 years. I like to hope that even Tommy got some excitement out of this. And I like to hope I'll have some cool ones like this to figure out and work on in my future.
Love this channel. Make longer videos please. Can’t get enough. I also watch your shows on tv.
Thanks guys going to go tackle this now.
Amazing !
Greetings from Buenos Aires
Tom and Charlie are a duo
that house looks awesome
Using a bottle jack to lift the beam flush against the roof sheathing worked incredibly well for doing this in my house. Great video!
Also - I saw that you snapped a chalk line on the center line and left/right edge for cutting. My roof had a 5/8" curve over 12', so following the chalk line made lifting the beam into place very easy.
simple weekend warrior DIY project 💪
Nicely done.
I like that it says "how to" like typical weekend project. Better call my engineer friend before I rip out rafters.
I did a similar project in less than a day with my dad and one buddy. Probably closer to half a day.
Exactly what I was thinking. Who the heck would attempt this?
Justin Fiorini You had that lift they used? Otherwise your project was not similar.
@@Nill757 honestly stand up on roof and pull it up and then down
@@justinfiorini3142 Right, as they said, just the prep work of demo and temporary bracing was four days of work.
That was fascinating.
Wow what a difference. But it looks like a lot of work.
love to have trustworthy instruction to inform renovation- would love to see, if even possible, on how to vault ceilings on a pyramid hip roof
That was awesome
Thank you.
Incredible
Nice job
East Coast carpenters [Silva Brothers] gets the job done right, and in a timely manner♣︎
They should buy these guys capes for Christmas. Thank you
Chewbacca helps out at 3:19
😂
Well done! Out of curiousity, about how long are the LVLs?
Dam I wish I had Tommy knowledge
Well young man, simply keeping watching and you will 👍!
What you won't have is 40 +years of "experience" and actually hands on working.
The only way to remedy this is to start working and applying Tommy's knowledge to your own projects. If nothing else it's a good start.
Thanks for all the time and effort to put these videos together. I was wondering if you guys have in your archive a video on how to straighten a lopsided stand alone garage?
We want to know if its feasible to convert the loft space above our garage to a bedroom. It currently has a 2x4 truss roof structure. Would we be looking at something like this or is the big beam unnecessary since the above garage living space will have a floor holding things together?
I'm enjoying watching your show guys. You admire me, especially Tom)) I have a couple of questions for you:
How long is the span?
What's the maximum length I can support with triple LVL?
What are the brackets called you used to attach the ridge beam to rafter?
*me fixing my grandmas ceiling* ok, now pass me the 2x12x24 grandma! Put your hips into it!
LOL
What are you doing step grandma?
WOW.
Impressed!!!! Rough cost for this project?
More structural framing like this!
How did they cut the rafters? I'm having a hard time picturing a tool that could make a straight cut all the way up to the roof sheathing
so I have a cathedral ceiling but it is sagging. It does not have collar ties. How can I fix this issue. There are two vertical support posts from floor to ceiling as well as a support post/beam from over the fire place to the roof beam.
All those shiny hard hats
How does insulation work on this change?
How long can you span a 20 foot long room with a tripled 2x10 ridge beam?
Can this technique (replacing ridge beam with LVL beams and post support) in a home with roof truss, diagonal truss and insulation allow attic conversion?
Yes but you have to take into account all the other changes you are making; insulation, ventilation, fixed access stairways, electrical changes, structural changes down to the foundation (if the foundation can't support the load that you are now transferring to it, you have to support/reinforce the foundation first). In short, get an architect to draw up plans and a structural engineer to stamp them before proceeding.
Anyone can advise pls - in the video the rafters were screwed to the ridge beam using metal brackets - Would it make a stronger joints if the rafters will go over the beam ( above ) and then join all 3 together - that way the rafters will be resting on the beam itself not just relaying on the metal brackets ?
what's to stop the walls spreading out with the roof weight when the truss collars are removed, I've heard of tension cables being installed but I must have missed something in the video. Original cathedral ceilings in gothic times had buttresses outside the nave of the church to stop wall spread.
Walls can't spread as long as that tripled 18" lvl doesn't sag. Which it won't because Tommy always goes bigger than needed. That is the whole point of adding a ridge beam so you don't need tho tie the rafters with collar ties or ceiling joists or cables etc...
Would love to see how you plan on insulating, ventilating, adding air ducts. I’m not saying it can’t be done, I’m just curious
Spray foam. Ez pz
Tacking up some R30 is typically how this is insulated. The rafters look like they are at least 2x10s, which would provide plenty of room for airflow and ventilation. All the ductwork should be routed through the floor 👍🏻
1” air space by baffles and ensuring cross ventilation. Only sprayfoam a roof if you plastic the rafters and underside of roof. If you have to reroof and removed the sheathing youll be paying a ton of cash and possible be recutting in rafters
What’s the insulation and venting plan? External insulation? Can’t imagine you’re going to go right back down that LVL with a circular saw and cut a ridge vent.
No ventilation needed. Fiberglass insulation between rafters.
What am I missing? The LVL is supported on one end by a double 2x6 header, and the header is supported by a 2x6 beneath the left and right sides of the header, and each of the 2 vertical supporting 2x6s is bolted to what looks like original 4x6 framing. Assuming there is something similar at the other side (and assuming that the jacked up support in the middle of the room was temporary), then is it just a pair of 2x6 headers is supporting the new central roof beam?
Why are lag screws enough for LVL here, but carriage bolts are used in many other beams in general?
Carriage bolts are common with flitch beams, which are combinations of dimensional lumber and steel plate. In flitch beams the bolts distribute stress between the steel and wood. Here, the beam is built up entirely of LVL (wood) and therefore there is no stress differential between the materials and lags may be used.
What counters the tendency of the rafters to spread at the top of the wall? Ceiling beams normally do that, but I don't see anything to counter lateral 'push' of the rafters. What am I not seeing?
The lvl ridge beam replaces the ridge board. A ridge beam must be able to support 1/2 the roof load where as the original design relied on the exterior walls to support 95% of the load and tie joists to hold the walls In. ie. The load now is directed straight down with only 25% on each exterior wall and 50% on the ridge beam.
I want to know more about the LVL header on the gable end and how the load travels from the ridge to through the posts to the header and beyond. Any enginerds care to take some guesses? I haven't watched this season yet to know if they go over that or not.
At 5:36 you can see a post supporting one end of the LVL. This is in turn sitting on a header which distributes the load to two stud packs between the windows. These stud packs should run continuously down to the foundation. The other end of the LVL will have something similar.
Instead of cutting out the original ridge beam, can you just get a gluelam beam to be placed under it, with posts to secure it?
I wish you covered the point loading and the gable end support as well as if you had to have an engineer spec everything out or the permitting process.
LVL is an engineered wood product, this was designed by an engineer. This work would require a permit, but since this project is itself part of a larger permitted project this work is effectively included.
Lmao never let kevin handle the sawzall
Wow at least they didnt end the video before the job was completed this time.
What stopes the weight load from pushing the walls out? How do you stop that from happening?
There are posts at each end that hold up the beam.
The structural ridge beam transfers the weight to the posts on either end of the ridge beam, down to the foundation, typically through a header.
How much did that triple LVL cost?
I thought you need to cut the top of the beam to match the pitch of the roof. How is a square on top and still square on the bottom?
More structural please. Flitch plate etc. thanks for great video.
Rafters should still have ridge straps or collar ties up high. You can use deck tension ties and all-thread
how do u get a Ridge strap (hangars?) for an 18" tall beam?
@@miked5106 you use cs/mst straps rafter to rafter
Brave men!
If you wanted to hang something from the main beam, how much would it be able to hold?
About 4 of your wives and 2 neighbors ones, with all the kids.
You’d be better off placing some collar ties at the top of the rafters and hanging something from that. I wouldn’t start drilling holes into the structural ridge beam. It might be fine but idk
What did you use to attach the angle brackets?
@DR PHIL and special nails.
They are using wood structural screws
I can never get used to see ldl lumber. Too bad we dint see old growth lumber as one unit structural lumber
So nothing about having to put that huge LVL header above those windows for the gable end post to bear on?
New LVL ridge beam weighs less than the 2x10 stick ridge they took out, and the roof load on the gables is the same as before with trusses. Since the lvl beam won’t deflect, the rafters carry the same roof load share out to the walls.
I agree. Previously each truss had vertical load on exterior walls. Every truss load is now transferred to the lvl ends. The bearing ends have to be beefed up all the way to the basement, where a large footing would be needed imo.
@@Nill757 The LVL was like twice the size, yet you’re saying it weighs less than the ridge board they removed... okay sure...
@@riffdex Well you’re right, can’t recall what I was thinking then.
I can't believe you guys actually shown the lift being used to lift a lvl.we got so screwed and shut down by OSHA for doing that exact same thing
"Where do we get started"
"Now"
Lol I think Charlie misunderstood
Glorified Toastr With Legs there’s a little bit of Shakespeare in there if you think about it for a little bit
@@Mossad901 Nah, I prefer not to think. Easier that way, besides I am a Glorified Toastr With Legs
It's always good to hire a real professional that is licensed to know everything is done right than to take shortcuts just for it to be just 'ok'
3:35 chewbacca sound
♥️❤️👍
Finally, we hear from Charlie again. I was afraid you banned him from the channel. Huzzah!
Very impressive! The ridge on my trailer home is sagging I’m going to do the same.
You would probably be better off to buy whether it be a mob
I am on low fixed income well how much
Impressive piece of work, and clearly explained. I wonder how this would have been done back in the day before that lift was available on residential jobs, to allow horizontal insertion of that ridge beam. Cut slots in the floors and feed it vertically? Or, could it even be done without a modern LVL beam? Steel couldn’t be tied to each rafter without welding each spot. An old 8x8 solid beam would be too heavy, too $$$.
Fletch beam: alternating steel and timber laged/strcutural screwedto gether
Fletch plate can handle 16x the strength of wood itself so yes this would b an appropriate method as well.
@@borys444 Hmm, interesting point ... if Tommy had engineered a flitch beam then would be interesting to know how narrow the new beam could have been.
Would it have been cheaper? Or carried more load perhaps?
I see a flitch beam can carry up to 16 times more load than a similarly dimensioned length of timber and those engineered beams, again, can carry more load that your standard timber.
Would it have been been an easier installation?
We'll never know of course but an interesting point nonetheless.
There again perhaps other builders do that anyway.
We occasionally use an RSJ with timber fitted between the webs although some builders consider it "over engineering" on a house.
Scaffolding or ladders and a hoist could have been used to pull the beams up to the gable. People regularly do work like this now with the described methods.
I don’t see the vertical post to support the ridge
They're at each end. One end is split to go around the window.
structural ridge beam should have gone BELOW the rafters to support the VERTICAL load since it is no longer a trussed system
Hang on a minute ! - you've just cut the cross beams out which holds the walls together - you even say that the walls want to move apart due to the weight of the roof - so it now looks like to only thing stopping the walls from moving apart is those steel brackets on the new top beam - am I wrong ?
If you're going with no collar ties, then a metal rafter tie over the top of the beam should be used.
A35s work the same, the idea is just to keep the rafters connected to the beam
Those aren't collar ties, they're rafter ties. Collar ties are in the top 1/3
Dealing, how did adding this beefier beam stop the roof from spreading once the rafter ties were removed?
@@almccallie4314 the load changed from only resting on the outside walls (where the rafter tails end) to resting on the beam "post" as they called them in this video
Ok, So the beam posts on each end are permanent. For some reason I was thinking they were temporary. Thank you.
@@almccallie4314 Yes, they are permanent and half of the roof load is carried by the two end posts. Those posts needs to have good support all the way to the footing.
Does anyone else think Tom's boy seems pretty tall?? I would check how tall the Milk/Post man was back then???
Good, nice job gays !
How do you know that Tommy is gay?
@@Engineer9736 gay/guy not gey
Truly shows everyone has their own tastes. And it is how it should be, avoid cookie cutter houses. I myself never liked high ceilings.
High ceilings make houses seem more open and spacious. More people would do them but they are expensive. One person can frame two by fours, but you need a team to throw in a triple LVL or steel beam.
When we bought our house, the living room had a cathedral ceiling. Height was nice. But after a year it felt to overwhelming and we grew to hate it. Cost a pretty penny but we lowered the ceiling to 8 ft and made the room 2 floors with a small room above. Feels a lot better. Learned I did not like tall ceilings myself.
Youre probably right but if youre going for grand or spacious, it does a lot.
A good compromise is to install your ceiling joists 18" to 2' above the wall plate.
TheToolnut can I move my ceiling joists up on my rafters? Or do they have to stay on top of the walls?
Anytime Tommys' got the hardhat on, spits aboujt to get real
Seems like there is a support structure missing from this video. Just a beam couldn't support a roof.
@J Wil that makes more sense. Didn't see that
There would need to be something below to take up the point load from the beam. I have done similar but smaller projects and have had to pour additional footings in the crawl spaces and a knee wall under the floor.
So... 4 days of 2 guys and 1K of material. Maybe a 3-4K bid?
Realistically 5 but u will have joksters coming in at 6.
It will depend on the region, and "what the market will bear" ..... out here on the west coast, SF Bay Area, that change could easily mean $ 10 k, sorry to say. What would have been the cost if the truss members remained, and ceiling rock was applied around them? Again, not cheap, out here. There are rock trades that can do that work. But again, what is the market demand for sheet rock work at the time of construction? I have had estimates double within two months, the contractor telling me..."take it or leave it, I've got a lot of business right now".
Keep in mind this was already gutted and the work to finish the space was covered under the original bid, hence those costs were not included in that price.
Why didn’t they use hangers? Instead of that corner one?
Because you do not need hangers
The rafters pinch the LVL and will not slip
I thought the new beam had to be supported...
It is. Posts at each end
I need me an old house instead of this old trailer easier to keep up not many people will work on trailers they don't hold their value as well
I wanted to learn how too cook pizza not how too support a roof! Haha
so all that work and materials could have been avoided just by having collar ties? I would have just had the collar ties.. and you could still have it opened up to the very top.. you'd just see the collar ties.
Only here for the weekend warriors telling how it should be done.
Steep pitch like this is a very bad idea... all heat goes to top of ceiling and very dangerous when shingling.
This is a rare instance where I cannot agree with the structure. Very rare. Rare to the point where I normally say, "what would Tommy Silva do..."
There must be a missing element. The "beam" as it was installed at the roof peak will not resist the spreading of the rafter - nor will the walls that they rest upon,. The 'collar tie' members achieve this result in the original design and the original peak beam was a non-load bearing member.
I would insist on an additional structural element to replace the function of the original collar-ties and lower truss members that appear to have been removed before the video.
Also - the 3-pack of LVL's ought have had additional unifying cohesion through the use of a construction adhesive applied with a pre-mist of water from a spray bottle.
The steel corner hanger nailers ought also have had some adhesive applied with that pre-spray of water mist. The water mist provides water molecules for the adhesive to cure when affixing steel or other non-porous material.
the beam and the original rafter board setup were not designed to resist the spreading of the rafters, its unclear what you mean by spreading anyhow; that would be in part the birds mouth cut on the rafter at the top plates of the below wall; the beam supports the rafters differently than the origional truss-like feature of the origional framing. That is the truss like features cause the abutting rafters into compression to give strength to support the loads; now those are removed and a new point load is located at he top of the rafters where they are supported in turn by the beam, so the rafters behave more like simple joists now albeit at an angle. The engineer that spec'd the job I am sure deteremined the slope, and accounted for the old growth timber framing when considering a ridge beam replacing the truss like traditional framing after doing load calcs. AND like whats up with your water misting nonesens....u think they showed all the steps to install too?
They switched from rafters being held upwards by trusses (pushing up from below) to rafters hanging downwards (holding up from the top) from the now dramatically larger ridge beam (which itself is supported by the columns and gable ends) seems to be what makes this possible.
@@zefrum3 😂 water misting nonsense ... would suggest it was a reference to moisture curing adhesive.
And, video featured the replacement of the ridge beam, no more, no less. Perhaps there is another video on purlins? Or tie rods keeping the ends of the rafters splaying out?
Have to say it would be useful having links included.
(UK used "star" plates and tie rods to keep old brick walls bulging out so this technology works. Some designs other than a star shape were used for aesthetic effect. First used in medieval times ... infinitely cheaper than the rebuilding of a wall.
If anyone interested then a visit to the "Avoncroft Museum of Historic Buildings" website might help pass half an hour or so???)
@@zefrum3 The water mist - if you read the manufacturer's instructions on most construction adhesives they will mention a "mister bottle" to apply a mist of water to non-porous surfaces. Ceramic tiles, steel, engineered wood products - the mist aids in curing. It is also interesting to compare the sheer strength of adhesives to nails or screws.
In almost every instance I recall - Mr. Silva would reference the guidance of a licensed engineer. I do not recall a mention in this video.
The walls will appear to support that transverse load ( the referenced bird's mouths ) but time and gravity are persistent.
Bruce MacNeil dude...so what if the manufacture of adhesives say to wet the surface? So what if he didnt mention his use of a licensed engineer; is this video somehow evidencing him not using these things? You need help
This was great, thanks, I been tryin to find out about "how to build a covered porch roof" for a while now, and I think this has helped. Have you ever come across - Beybigail Nonpareil Breakthrough - (Have a quick look on google cant remember the place now ) ? It is a great exclusive product for discovering how to create better sheds and improve your woodworking minus the headache. Ive heard some unbelievable things about it and my buddy got great results with it.
First! Yes
Can this technique (replacing ridge beam with LVL beams and post support) in a home with roof truss, diagonal truss and insulation allow attic conversion?
Here's my attic video: ua-cam.com/video/ri5QBykX-nw/v-deo.html
check with a structural engineer
I've lost all respect for Tommy after I saw how he treated his apprentices.
What are you talking about