Thanks for this review - and particularly for what you say about No. 1. He really had a way with this piece. In December 1969 he did it with the Philharmonia at the Festival Hall (with Delius's Brigg Fair and Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem in the first half) and I was taken to it as a treat for my 13th birthday. Wow. It was the first Mahler I ever heard in a concert, and it nearly blew the roof off the hall (of course he got the horns to stand up in the last movement - so it even looked great too).
Barbirolli is the conductor one discovers after giving up on the search for THE perfect performance of any given piece. He's the guy who makes you listen to a familiar piece in a new way.
My favourite Barbirolli Mahler recording is his Third from 1969, a broadcast made in studio conditions (it was published in the BBC Legends collection). The boy's choir sound like a bunch of urchins from a Dickens novel, and the last movement is full-blown romantic. But I must say that I really prefer those rough Mahler recordings from the 1950s and 1960, with orchestras struggling to follow their conductors. Today's recordings sound too sanitized for my tastes.
I the concluding adagio of B's 3rd has an unique lyrical quality that makes me return to this recording again and again. But the rest of the movements... let's face it, they're less than perfect in a technical sense. Then again, none less than Deryck Cooke praised B's 3rd, so I guess it's a matter of whether the imperfections bother you or not.
I was glad to see this, as I have long been a big Sir John fan. I am well familiar with the 5th, 6th, and 9th recordings, but somehow managed to have never heard this version of # 1. I found it on Amazon streaming, and took a listen. The Halle was definitely not a great orchestra at that time, but they do play it pretty well. I especially liked the overall sound world that is created. It reminded me very much of the Kubelik, Abravanel, and Horenstein recordings, evoking the feel of an enchanted forest, which is exactly what is needed for the 1st and 3rd movements particularly. (I always liked the sound of the Horenstein version, but not the rest of the performance so much). Also, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Mercury records recording team (Wilma Cozarth, et al) did at least some of the recordings that came out on Pye Records in the late 50's, such as this version of the 1st. Do you know anything about that?
Thanks for shedding some light on Barbirolli and his Mahler interpretations. There are some underrated but absolutely incredible performances in there!
I love the Barbi 6th. Unique, and terrifying. I think it presents one of the finest analogue recorded sounds I have ever heard. Particularly the strings and percussion… such impact! I find the 5th highly overrated: sleepy, and uninformed, with many textual errors. But I understand it has many fans, like you, whose opinion I completely respect. I think you are a bit hard on the Berlin 9th. Yes, orchestra struggled, but given the history, they were learning Mahler. Parts of the opening Adagio all of the Final Adagio I find beautiful. The orchestra treasured Barbirolli’s annual visits… Nice doggy!
If one goes into the viewable archived material of the Berliner Philharmoniker's Digital Concert Hall (which I commend for your consideration) one can find interviews with the "old hands" who mention several times that Barbirolli was their favorite guest conductor during that period. One can also hear the claim that in the 20's and early 30's the practice of the Berlin Phil with the Mahler 6 was to place the Scherzo third in the movement sequence (I prefer second in sequence, as many do). Interesting stuff.
This is a colossally great Sixth; I am little less sold on the Fifth. I've always thought critical consensus got this the wrong way round. So too the NInth, which just breezes over the piece.
I just got this set, and immediately noticed the improved sound in the 1st Symphony. I previously had it on Dutton, which now seems rather murky compared to the Warner remastering. I've yet to listen to the others, but so far so good :)
I have an earlier release of the 1st, and it is supposed to be in "stereo". But, it is just "fat mono", if that. Barbirolli also recorded the 2nd for EMI. It's in good analog stereo.
I have so often gone back and forth on the Barbirolli Warner box. 109 discs. I just dont know and haven’t bitten the bullet and bought the thing. What do you guys think. Should I. Should I not?? Decisions decisions. :)
Absolutely. One of the unique musical personalities among great 20th century conductors. His best performances are wonderfully memorable events and have a warmth, an emotional expressivity, a dramatic sense of something big being at stake that is hard to resist. A heroic interpreter of heroic music, as the Berlin PO Intendant once put it.
For Mahler's song cycles, I think my favorite is an obscure one: Siegfried Lorenz on Berlin Classics. The orchestras are variously conducted by Masur, Herbig and Suitner. Lorenz was a Schubert specialist who managed to make this recording before his voice started to go. He delivers a good amount of emotion (without overdoing it), while at the same time being very lyrical. The accompaniment is excellent.
Absolute agreement! Lorenz sings Mahler uniquely well, technically, interpretatively and above all late-romantically. Magnificence in and through the ordinary, that is Schubert's vision, which Mahler achieves in his songs. Lorenz does it brilliantly.
For me there are two recordings of the 9th Symphony that I like best: the live recording with Karajan and the studio recording with Barbirolli. I don't know which one I would prefer. So I'm surprised that you don't seem to like Barbirolli's 9th Symphony at all. Others are also full of praise for this recording. The Berliner Philharmoniker have always spoken of this recording with high regard. Maybe you can make a video in which you take a closer look at this recording so that people like me understand what you dislike about it.
I've discussed certain aspects of the performance that bother me: the sub-par playing, Barbirolli's own emotional disengagement, the unimpressive sonics, etc. No need to beat a dead horse. If others like it, that's their choice.
Speaking of Mahler 5, what do you think of Rudolf Schwarz’s? I discovered this ancient recording recently and I actually like it a lot, the playing is occasionally a little sloppy (one of the trumpet players at the start of the 2nd movement very audibly cracks which must have been embarrassing) but I enjoy the interpretation a lot, especially the faster Adagietto more in line with Mahler’s own tempos. I’d say between this and the Barshai (which also has a faster Adagietto) I prefer this one for the better form in the Scherzo and the Rondo-Finale. May not be your cup of tea (the LSO in this performance were rehearsed by Horenstein who I disdain just as much as you do, if not more), but curious for your take regardless.
Barbirolli also did Mahler 1 (1959) and 9 (1962) with the New York Philharmonic in the orchestra's Mahler broadcast box from thirty years ago. Better played than the roughly simultaneous EMI recordings, but unfortunately recorded in mono. The New York Philharmonic (of course) had a long Mahler tradition, dating back to the World's Foremost Authority on the Music of Gustav Mahler.
Hi Dave - great video, as always. I'm sure you get this all the time, but I have a review request - I would love to hear your thoughts on the best and worst recordings of the Sorcerer's Apprentice. I raise it here because of your comment that Levine said the BPO just couldn't play it. I think that point is pretty accurately reflected in his recording of it on DG, which seems hasty and sloppy - like he just wanted to get it over with as efficiently as possible. I'd also be curious for perspective as a percussionist on some of the textual differences I've heard in recordings. In Fournet's Concertgebouw recording (fabulous), for example, the glockenspiel is playing a completely different part than from what I've heard in just about every other performance (including his Denon remake - also fabulous). And in the Tortelier recording, the cymbal just disappears after the big final climax - not sure if they got lost or if that's a textual issue. It seems to belong to that category of classics which aren't as popular as they used to be for whatever reason. Anyway, keep 'em coming!
@@johnfowler7660 - the first CD issue was hornless. Then they made a big deal about fixing it. Then, a subsequent CD reissue post-fix went back to the hornless master!
@@markstenroos6732 horn is missing on GROC issue. On Barbirolli warner big box the horn is back. So I guess is this box (not hear it myself) if they use the same remastering.
I guess the only thing I don't have from this box is the First. I think i held a CD with his Seventh back in the day, but I never got around to buying it. And I may have seen his Second in a Great Conductors of the 20th Century series (2 cds per head) that came out earlier this century, but I got other conductors instead--Karel Ancerl and Ferenc Fricsay.
Thanks for making me aware of this box. At less than 12 Great British Pounds it’s a no brainier. I’ve seen the Halle Orchestra at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester many times though sadly Barbarolli was before my time.
I remember actually throwing out a recording of the Mahler 7 under Sir John B because the timpani solo at the start of the final movement was so slow and stodgy. It's as if the timpanist was using legatto sticks rather than the preferred staccato sticks.
That must have been the Klemperer recording, understandably confused with Barbirolli, whose 5th and 6th were issued around the same time on EMI w/ the Philharmonia. The ENTIRE performance was slow and stodgy; I think the opening of the finale might have been one of its high points.
the most perverse recording of a Mahler Symphony that I've heard- -not one to imprint on! However, the cover artwork for the CFP reissue couldn't have been more exquisite.
@@HassoBenSoba There are in fact a couple of Barbirolli recordings of the 7th out there, with the Halle and the BBC Northern. I think they're both live.
@@ThreadBomb No kidding; Thanks for the tip (just found it on You-Tube). PS-- I've examined Barbirolli's own copy of the Mahler 7th score, which was in the Barenboim collection in the Chicago Sym's library; it's probably no longer there. Sir John had marked the score extensively page-by-page in heavy lead pencil, and dated it on the last page...sometime in August, 1960. So he was obviously preparing for the Halle performance, which took place on October 20th, '60. LR
Boy, do I ever agree with you. In THIS particular case (Barbirolli's M6), andante/scherzo works fine. I also prefer the Karajan M6 recording played back that way as well. It just works better for me (not my favorite M6 to begin with). The Abbado/Berlin M6, on the other hand, I like much better when played back scherzo/andante (it was recorded A/S).
I've always respected Barbirolli as a conductor but personally have never found his Mahler at all exceptional. Quite competent but just not that moving to me. Only my geezerly opinion, of course.
I for one love the bulldog analogy; nothing wrong with an adorably slobbery and snorty conductor who may occasionally reveal a bit of a household mess. I haven’t heard a note of Sir John’s Mahler but I very much look forward to doing so.
Talking of the great Dame(!), it is her 88th birthday today!! Many happy returns Dame Janet…
Thanks for this review - and particularly for what you say about No. 1. He really had a way with this piece. In December 1969 he did it with the Philharmonia at the Festival Hall (with Delius's Brigg Fair and Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem in the first half) and I was taken to it as a treat for my 13th birthday. Wow. It was the first Mahler I ever heard in a concert, and it nearly blew the roof off the hall (of course he got the horns to stand up in the last movement - so it even looked great too).
Barbirolli is the conductor one discovers after giving up on the search for THE perfect performance of any given piece. He's the guy who makes you listen to a familiar piece in a new way.
My favourite Barbirolli Mahler recording is his Third from 1969, a broadcast made in studio conditions (it was published in the BBC Legends collection). The boy's choir sound like a bunch of urchins from a Dickens novel, and the last movement is full-blown romantic. But I must say that I really prefer those rough Mahler recordings from the 1950s and 1960, with orchestras struggling to follow their conductors. Today's recordings sound too sanitized for my tastes.
I the concluding adagio of B's 3rd has an unique lyrical quality that makes me return to this recording again and again. But the rest of the movements... let's face it, they're less than perfect in a technical sense. Then again, none less than Deryck Cooke praised B's 3rd, so I guess it's a matter of whether the imperfections bother you or not.
@@cpeters6494 I must admit that when I'm in the mood for a Mahler Third, I usually only listen to the last three movements...
I was glad to see this, as I have long been a big Sir John fan. I am well familiar with the 5th, 6th, and 9th recordings, but somehow managed to have never heard this version of # 1. I found it on Amazon streaming, and took a listen. The Halle was definitely not a great orchestra at that time, but they do play it pretty well. I especially liked the overall sound world that is created. It reminded me very much of the Kubelik, Abravanel, and Horenstein recordings, evoking the feel of an enchanted forest, which is exactly what is needed for the 1st and 3rd movements particularly. (I always liked the sound of the Horenstein version, but not the rest of the performance so much).
Also, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Mercury records recording team (Wilma Cozarth, et al) did at least some of the recordings that came out on Pye Records in the late 50's, such as this version of the 1st. Do you know anything about that?
Hello Dave.
I would like to ask you to consider to make a talk about Schubert's piano sonatas.
They are so rewarding listening.
Best wishes Fred.
Oooh yes please!
Yes, that'd be wonderful!
Yes, please. And videos about Mozart and Haydn sonatas would be great too.
ONE talk about all those tremendous works? A crusade! We need a crusade!
Thanks for shedding some light on Barbirolli and his Mahler interpretations. There are some underrated but absolutely incredible performances in there!
Thank you for your appreciiation of Six -- in my opinion, one of the greatest human documents ever made!
I love the Barbi 6th. Unique, and terrifying. I think it presents one of the finest analogue recorded sounds I have ever heard. Particularly the strings and percussion… such impact! I find the 5th highly overrated: sleepy, and uninformed, with many textual errors. But I understand it has many fans, like you, whose opinion I completely respect. I think you are a bit hard on the Berlin 9th. Yes, orchestra struggled, but given the history, they were learning Mahler. Parts of the opening Adagio all of the Final Adagio I find beautiful. The orchestra treasured Barbirolli’s annual visits… Nice doggy!
If one goes into the viewable archived material of the Berliner Philharmoniker's Digital Concert Hall (which I commend for your consideration) one can find interviews with the "old hands" who mention several times that Barbirolli was their favorite guest conductor during that period. One can also hear the claim that in the 20's and early 30's the practice of the Berlin Phil with the Mahler 6 was to place the Scherzo third in the movement sequence (I prefer second in sequence, as many do). Interesting stuff.
This is a colossally great Sixth; I am little less sold on the Fifth. I've always thought critical consensus got this the wrong way round. So too the NInth, which just breezes over the piece.
I just got this set, and immediately noticed the improved sound in the 1st Symphony. I previously had it on Dutton, which now seems rather murky compared to the Warner remastering. I've yet to listen to the others, but so far so good :)
Very insightful; particulalry interesting stuff about the BPO. And 'Dame Granite' made me laugh out loud. Many thanks, David. Woof, woof!
I have an earlier release of the 1st, and it is supposed to be in "stereo". But, it is just "fat mono", if that. Barbirolli also recorded the 2nd for EMI. It's in good analog stereo.
Loved the review! Someone mentioned the 1962 NYPO Barbirolli 9. Could you comment on that performance?
Yes, John Fowler mentioned it. Better than Berlin, but still (in my view) not competitive with the best. I nice souvenir though.
Janet Baker, dearest singer, give me the goose bumps so often. I am on cloud 9 when I listen to her.
I have so often gone back and forth on the Barbirolli Warner box. 109 discs. I just dont know and haven’t bitten the bullet and bought the thing. What do you guys think. Should I. Should I not?? Decisions decisions. :)
If you can afford it, Yes! You won't regret it.
Barbirolli was a really great conductor.
Not. Life is too short.
Absolutely. One of the unique musical personalities among great 20th century conductors. His best performances are wonderfully memorable events and have a warmth, an emotional expressivity, a dramatic sense of something big being at stake that is hard to resist. A heroic interpreter of heroic music, as the Berlin PO Intendant once put it.
For Mahler's song cycles, I think my favorite is an obscure one: Siegfried Lorenz on Berlin Classics. The orchestras are variously conducted by Masur, Herbig and Suitner. Lorenz was a Schubert specialist who managed to make this recording before his voice started to go. He delivers a good amount of emotion (without overdoing it), while at the same time being very lyrical. The accompaniment is excellent.
I find those rather ordinary, actually.
Absolute agreement! Lorenz sings Mahler uniquely well, technically, interpretatively and above all late-romantically. Magnificence in and through the ordinary, that is Schubert's vision, which Mahler achieves in his songs. Lorenz does it brilliantly.
Great review Dave! Buldog rules! Have you ever heard Sir JB Mahler 1st with Czech Philharmonic ?
Yes I have
@@DavesClassicalGuide ..and?
@@damiangruszczynski7451 Meh.
For me there are two recordings of the 9th Symphony that I like best: the live recording with Karajan and the studio recording with Barbirolli. I don't know which one I would prefer. So I'm surprised that you don't seem to like Barbirolli's 9th Symphony at all. Others are also full of praise for this recording. The Berliner Philharmoniker have always spoken of this recording with high regard. Maybe you can make a video in which you take a closer look at this recording so that people like me understand what you dislike about it.
I've discussed certain aspects of the performance that bother me: the sub-par playing, Barbirolli's own emotional disengagement, the unimpressive sonics, etc. No need to beat a dead horse. If others like it, that's their choice.
Speaking of Mahler 5, what do you think of Rudolf Schwarz’s? I discovered this ancient recording recently and I actually like it a lot, the playing is occasionally a little sloppy (one of the trumpet players at the start of the 2nd movement very audibly cracks which must have been embarrassing) but I enjoy the interpretation a lot, especially the faster Adagietto more in line with Mahler’s own tempos. I’d say between this and the Barshai (which also has a faster Adagietto) I prefer this one for the better form in the Scherzo and the Rondo-Finale. May not be your cup of tea (the LSO in this performance were rehearsed by Horenstein who I disdain just as much as you do, if not more), but curious for your take regardless.
It's not bad, but hardly necessary. I haven't listened to it in years and have no plans to.
Barbirolli also did Mahler 1 (1959) and 9 (1962) with the New York Philharmonic in the orchestra's Mahler broadcast box from thirty years ago. Better played than the roughly simultaneous EMI recordings, but unfortunately recorded in mono. The New York Philharmonic (of course) had a long Mahler tradition, dating back to the World's Foremost Authority on the Music of Gustav Mahler.
Hi Dave - great video, as always.
I'm sure you get this all the time, but I have a review request - I would love to hear your thoughts on the best and worst recordings of the Sorcerer's Apprentice. I raise it here because of your comment that Levine said the BPO just couldn't play it. I think that point is pretty accurately reflected in his recording of it on DG, which seems hasty and sloppy - like he just wanted to get it over with as efficiently as possible. I'd also be curious for perspective as a percussionist on some of the textual differences I've heard in recordings. In Fournet's Concertgebouw recording (fabulous), for example, the glockenspiel is playing a completely different part than from what I've heard in just about every other performance (including his Denon remake - also fabulous). And in the Tortelier recording, the cymbal just disappears after the big final climax - not sure if they got lost or if that's a textual issue. It seems to belong to that category of classics which aren't as popular as they used to be for whatever reason.
Anyway, keep 'em coming!
Thanks for the suggestion. I've been thinking about that.
Does the 5th include the horn solo that was missing for decades until recorded in the late 90s and inserted into the recording?
I'm pretty sure the horn-less version was only ever available on LP. The posthumous horn was added for the first CD release c.1990 (red CD holder)
@@johnfowler7660 - the first CD issue was hornless. Then they made a big deal about fixing it. Then, a subsequent CD reissue post-fix went back to the hornless master!
@@markstenroos6732 horn is missing on GROC issue. On Barbirolli warner big box the horn is back. So I guess is this box (not hear it myself) if they use the same remastering.
I guess the only thing I don't have from this box is the First. I think i held a CD with his Seventh back in the day, but I never got around to buying it. And I may have seen his Second in a Great Conductors of the 20th Century series (2 cds per head) that came out earlier this century, but I got other conductors instead--Karel Ancerl and Ferenc Fricsay.
I think the rough scrappinest of the Halle works quite well for the seedy pub-band elements of the 3rd movement
Thanks for making me aware of this box. At less than 12 Great British Pounds it’s a no brainier. I’ve seen the Halle Orchestra at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester many times though sadly Barbarolli was before my time.
Are those symphonies are the same than in the 100 cds Warner Complete BArbirolli Collection ?
I remember actually throwing out a recording of the Mahler 7 under Sir John B because the timpani solo at the start of the final movement was so slow and stodgy. It's as if the timpanist was using legatto sticks rather than the preferred staccato sticks.
That must have been the Klemperer recording, understandably confused with Barbirolli, whose 5th and 6th were issued around the same time on EMI w/ the Philharmonia. The ENTIRE performance was slow and stodgy; I think the opening of the finale might have been one of its high points.
@@HassoBenSoba Thanks for correcting me
the most perverse recording of a Mahler Symphony that I've heard- -not one to imprint on! However, the cover artwork for the CFP reissue couldn't have been more exquisite.
@@HassoBenSoba There are in fact a couple of Barbirolli recordings of the 7th out there, with the Halle and the BBC Northern. I think they're both live.
@@ThreadBomb No kidding; Thanks for the tip (just found it on You-Tube). PS-- I've examined Barbirolli's own copy of the Mahler 7th score, which was in the Barenboim collection in the Chicago Sym's library; it's probably no longer there. Sir John had marked the score extensively page-by-page in heavy lead pencil, and dated it on the last page...sometime in August, 1960. So he was obviously preparing for the Halle performance, which took place on October 20th, '60. LR
Boy, do I ever agree with you. In THIS particular case (Barbirolli's M6), andante/scherzo works fine. I also prefer the Karajan M6 recording played back that way as well. It just works better for me (not my favorite M6 to begin with). The Abbado/Berlin M6, on the other hand, I like much better when played back scherzo/andante (it was recorded A/S).
I've always respected Barbirolli as a conductor but personally have never found his Mahler at all exceptional. Quite competent but just not that moving to me. Only my geezerly opinion, of course.
I for one love the bulldog analogy; nothing wrong with an adorably slobbery and snorty conductor who may occasionally reveal a bit of a household mess. I haven’t heard a note of Sir John’s Mahler but I very much look forward to doing so.