Review: Dueling Mahler Editions from Major Labels
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- 2010/11 was the 150th anniversary of Mahler's birth and the centenary of his death, leading Universal (DG) and EMI (not yet Warner) to release competing boxed sets. DG's purported to be "complete," but of course it didn't even come close. EMI's was just an "edition." So to conclude our survey of Mahler boxes, I offer a comparison of these two limited releases in case you happen to come across one somewhere. You don't need either of them--the performances are almost all still kicking around one way or another, but it's fun to see what was going on a decade ago, just for the sake of completeness.
Have enjoyed your various Mahler talks. You mentioned that there were just four cycles, Kubelik, Bernstein, Haitink and Solti. I must be a bit older than you, as I remember when there were none. Bernstein and Kubelik were both coming out. As you say, Mahler cycles are a commodity, but back then Mahler releases were an event. The British paper "The Sunday Times" offered a 3 LP Mahler set, the first and fourth with the NYPO under Bernstein and Bruno Walter conducting "Das Lied von der Erde". That was my first Mahler purchase. The first Mahler concert I remember was Lorin Maazel conducting the BBCSO in the Resurrection symphony at the Royal Festival Hall in London. I was a teenager and went with my mother. Boy, did the place rock! Maazel was a young firebrand in those days. So maybe, judging by your reviews of his Philharmonia cycle, mellowing with age isn't a great trait in a conductor. Hoping you will review the Berlin Phil's multi-conductor cycle.
Well you helped me find my new favorite Mahler 6 -- Abbado with Chicago, which is like an Italian driving a Mustang down the Autobahn. The first movement and Scherzo are the best on record, while the Andante is moving though relatively straightforward, and the Finale exciting, but not overwhelmingly powerful at the two hammer blows or flexible enough in tempo. The playing is astoundingly virtuosic and the sonics excellent. I could tell it would be a great recording from the beginning, as the strings are in perfect unison, enunciating the march rhythm through the often imbalanced snare drum. The ensemble playing is a masterful Flemish tapestry, with the lower voices in particular skillfully interwoven. Ray Still, one of the greatest oboists of all time, is also worth a mention for his solos in turn biting and transcendent.
Thanks for your channel, David. I always learn a lot. I have a request: how about a talk about Klaus Tennstedt? There's a lot to say about: the difference between his studio and live recordings; the number and variety of different labels and box sets; all his lesser-known recordings of composers other than Mahler; and his compelling personal story. Tennstedt is the conductor who made me fall in love with going to concerts. On one memorable occasion, the second half of a program with the Philadelphia Orchestra was made up of the overtures to Tannhauser and Die Meistersinger. After talking a bow for the Tannhauser (to thunderous applause), he left the stage, then after a moment returned. As he approached center stage, his pace quickened, but instead of taking a second bow, and with the applause still roaring, he LEAPT to the podium with the downbeat for the huge opening chord of Die Meistersinger. It was absolutely thrilling, and 40 years later I can still see it happening. I'd love to hear you talk about him. Who knows, maybe this could kick off a series of conductor talks. In any case, thanks again for your channel.
The DG box is 18 discs, and available at Presto Classical. It's on sale for $45.25 through the weekend. The title for search purposes is "Mahler Complete Edition".
Really? Amazing! Of course, the "complete" is BS.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Presto also has the EMI Mahler box in stock, not on sale. 16 discs, $56.50. Title "150th Anniversary - Mahler Complete Works". Everything is complete, whether it is or not.
@@Don-md6wn You said it!
I’ve seen the score to Mahler’s rearrangement of Beethoven 9. It’s basically arranged for Mahler size orchestra. Quadruple woodwinds, 8 horns, etc. Most of it sounds great. The only thing for me is that when we get to the 4th movement with the Cellos/Basses aria, Mahler has the Violas play along too. But they play only in the spots when it doesn’t go below their lowest note in the range. Otherwise, they cut out here and there. Makes no sense to me.
William Steinberg recorded Mahler's version of Symphony 9 (but not 1-8) in his Pittsburgh Symphony set for Command, currently on DG.
There are two tympani in the first movement (only) and Mahler also added two new instruments to the score.
I didn’t really notice the E-Flat clarinet, but can clearly hear the tuba player oompahing his heart out from 9 20 to 9 56 of the first movement.
Time out, wind it back! I’ve just heard Mr Hurwitz use “Simon Rattle” and “Very, Very Good” in the same sentence! 🤣 Long Live Mahler 10
You have to give credit where credit is due, always.
Rattle was one of the most vocal advocates of Mahler 10 and its rightful place in Mahler's oeuvre so it's not a surprise that his two recordings were very good. Though I actually like his early Birmingham version more than the Berlin one. But maybe I just have a sentimental attachment to the Birmingham 10, it was like the first cd I ever bought, and I was fascinated by it.
DH,,,,Thank you for the Mahler Crusade over the last 10(and the Bruckner vid). Much appreciated.
What about a review of Pipo's Edition of the Gustav Meowler works on Tinnitus Classics?
Many thanks for your previous talk on partial Mahler sets.
I have been listening to some of the Rosbaud recordings.
What superb performances they are. (I wasn't really familiar with his work so they have been a revelation).
The Haitink concerts are, as far as I can tell, only available on DVD (and on UA-cam). Based on what I have heard so far, they sound very impressive.
Once again, many thanks. You can't get enough good Mahler.
(Which is why I wouldn't want either of these box sets. Too much that isn't that good).
I was about to write I’d love to see Naxos put out their Mahler symphonies all boxed up, but lo and behold, the Google machine tells me they already did this back in 2010. I haven’t heard the multi-conductor cycle in it’s entirety, but the 8th with Antoni Wit is amazing and the Wheeler completion of the 10th with Robert Olson is solid. The 7th isn’t competitive; it’s not bad but way too many superior recordings out there. And now that I look at track list, I see this set is also incomplete in that it doesn’t include all of Naxos’s Mahler’s symphonic recordings. It’s a “people’s choice” cycle.
I thought the "People's Edition" was evidence of Mahler Mania (of which I am guilty). I voted and got my name into a DG CD booklet....I know, big deal, but kind of fun for 5 minutes.
A few years ago I bought an interesting mixed performance compilation published by Intense Media. Sym 1 with Kubelik (VPO); Sym 2 with Klemperer (Concertgebouw): 3 with Boult (BBC); 4 with Reiner (Chicago); 5 with Walter (NYP), 6 with Mitropoulos (NYP), 7 and 9 with Rosbaud (SWBaden-Baden), 8 with Skokowski (NYP) and 10 with Scherchen (OrchViennaStOpera) and Das Lied with Walter/Ferrier (I know you don't like that one, David). It was dirt cheap. The sonics certainly don't match the two compilations you discussed (most are mono) as well as many other good modern cycles, but they are an intersesting supplement with some famous historic versions. Thanks for all these wonderful videos, David; I look forward to them!
Sounds like the same collection I picked up a few yrs ago in a Membran box. I wanted it for the NY Mitropoulos 6th, but I'm happy to have the other selections, which seem to me to be intelligently chosen (the only one which might be questionable being the Boult 3rd, but that one might appeal to admirers of the alto soloist - Ferrier). All the recordings date from the 50's, except the Walter 5th from '47, with the most recent being the 1958 Reiner 4th).
I have the EMI box because I really do like the 'good' items in that set: Giulini/CSO M1, Klemp's M2, Tennstedt's 'live' M5, the Barbirolli M6, Tennstedt's studio M8 (vastly better than his 'live' 1991 remake), Klemp's wonderful "DLvdE", etc. The sad thing is, it could have been REALLY great with just a few changes. I would definitely have employed Bertini's M7, and perhaps his M9 as well. I wouldn't have minded if they had used either of Rattle's M9 recordings, in lieu of the Barbirolli . They're not 'great', but they're not awful either. I actually don't mind Rattle's M3 all that much - there are worse. Birgit Remmert is really good on it. While the Horenstein M4 isn't bad, I would have preferred Previn/Pittsburgh/Ameling (I already own that one anyway). You get the idea. Look at the bright side: at least they didn't use Rattle's overly hyped and overly praised M2 from Birmingham.
Unless I am mistaken about EMI label ownership, I would have liked to see Paul Kletzki's Mahler's 4th get a nod...
Me too.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I started listening to Mahler with the 1st with Paul Kletski and the VPO, which was on the budget Royal Classics label, sadly the performance hasn't been preserved. I thought it was absolutely marvelous.
And Kletzki's Lied von der Erde too, with Dickie and DFD, still my favorite Lied ever. More intense and integrated than Klemperer, imo.
@@rogergersbach3300 The Kletzki M1 is wonderful, except for one disappointing fact: he makes a pretty major cut towards the end of the finale. Too bad, because it would easily be the best M1 from the Vienna Phil.
@@barryguerrero7652 I had no idea about that, not having heard the Symphony before. His Hunter's Funeral was just so spot on!
FYI: The DG is available on Amazon for $67.58 and the Warner (EMI) is also available as a Warner Classics on Amazon for $45.94. (Personally, I'm not getting either one. I'm perfectly happy with my Bertini and Chailly boxes and individual cd performances.)
We the people should decide our favorite ‘Dave Hurwitz Witticisms’ and then you include them on your next t shirt design
I'm waiting for the wildebeest's choice edition ...
Does anyone know if there is a recording of Mahler's 6th symphony in the 1906 edition of C.F. Kahnt Nachfolger? This is the score's version used by the Dover Publication. In the bars 2 to 5 there are parts for the woodwinds, and the main theme, there are cymbal crashes indicated in bar 6, 7 and 11. This seemes rather strange to me, because no performer does it that way....
It might interest you to have a listen to Simone Young's Hamburg recording of M6 (Oehms Classics). In the finale, she switches to the first version from the lead-in to the third hammer stroke (omitted in the revised version, but sometimes reinstated ), all the way to the beginning of the funereal dirge for low brass. It's a minor thing, to be sure, but there's a very interesting difference in the low woodwind parts, just before the start of that dirge. If you can get to Spotify, try having a listen. I too would love for SOMEBODY to record the entire first version.
@@barryguerrero7652 Thank you very much indeed, that sounds very interesting. I will have a listen to that special recording on Spotify.
The disc of various performances of Ich bin der Welt… reminded me of the disc of Christian Zacharias playing Scarlatti K 55 twenty times over a twenty year period (a “bonus” disc with a bit too much “bonus” - some are awfully recorded, just to make matters worse). No matter the beauty of music and performance, playing a piece over and over does not serve the music. On another note(!) the sun’s reglection on the tam tam looks really great around 22 minutes into the video :-)
I have them both and yes, the old Universal box is far better.
How about a talk on "best Second Viennese School collections"? For the (psycho)analytics of course.
Presto has both the EMI (search for Mahler 150th anniversary) and the "People's Edition" available as downloads. I bought the EMI a couple of days ago as it was only $25 dollars. As I like to compare my taste with yours I tried Rattle's 3rd and Barbirolli's 9th. Surprisingly I liked the Rattle. I listened to a few minutes of the Barbirolli and decided that life was too short to waste more time on it.
I think you should get some sort of critics award for this survey. Might I suggest the "Most shameless attempt to boost my UA-cam analytics" :-). Seriously I really did enjoy this survey and keep up the good work.
Shame is for the weak. There, I've had my Nietzschean moment du jour.
I might be mistaken, but I believe that the original LP version of the Barbirolli Mahler 6th placed the Andante 3rd. it may have been placed 2nd for the CD releases…
I still have my LP copy, and the Andante is indeed placed 3d, explicitly labeled "Side 3" (which also contains the first 9" of the finale).
Barbirolli recorded it in the order andante-scherzo and intended it to be released that way, but EMI decided otherwise. His wishes (and Mahler's!) then were reinstated in the cd releases.
I'm really sorry to go against DH's preferences in this, but I'm a HUGE supporter of the andante--scherzo order. I think the piece sounds better that way, it's structured better and Mahler wanted it that way. It baffles me that there's still so much controversy over it.
@@cpeters6494 interesting that EMI would intervene… I feel the opposite as you . Maybe just because that’s the way I heard it first. For me, the andante coming before the finale presents the most emotional kick… in 2nd position I think it’s effect is lessened… not something I will fight to the death about, though.
@@JackBurttrumpetstuff To me, the scherzo coming after the 1st movement gives me a "there we go again" feeling. These two movements are too much alike in texture and key so they provide too little contrast. The same goes for the slow introduction of the finale following the andante, in my opinion it works much better with the scherzo preceding it, otherwise you have two slow-ish movements following each other. Of course when you first hear the movements played in the "wrong" order, you don't see it as a defect, you just admire the music - but to me the andante-scherzo order was a revelation after knowing and loving the piece for so many years in the scherzo-andante version. It works so much better and gives even more structural strength to what's already a rock-solid composition.
And of course Mahler himself wanted the 6th played with the andante first, no-one can deny that. He even had his publisher issue a correction with the already printed score, which was rather unprecedented, and it shows how serious he was about the issue.
@@cpeters6494 Thanks for shedding light on the disparity between the CD and LP releases of the JH 6th.
However, I think it's a mistake to imagine that one can pronounce categorically in favor of either ordering. I would recommend that anyone interested in this question take a look at La Grange's monumental Mahler biography. In the appendix to vol III dedicated to the sixth symphony, the is a section with the heading "the order of the middle movements", and IV, appendix II revisits the same question and reaches the same conclusion, that "Mahler changed it in Essen because he was quite simply frightened by the audacity of his own conception." Tony Duggan's thoughtful survey of recordings of the Sixth contains a sensible and balanced discussion of the pros and cons; his conclusion is that the decision regarding the performance order must remain the prerogative of the conductor, for whom it becomes an artistic choice just as matters of tempo, proportion, balance etc. must be.
My own preference has always been in favor of Mahler's first thoughts: Scherzo, then Andante. The opening allegro and scherzo are closely related thematically, so that the Second movement can be heard as a kind of grotesque parody of the heroic First. I have not as yet had the opportunity to hear a live performance of this work (the one time a bought a ticket to hear it I managed to make it to the concert hall during a severe snowstorm only to find out that the program had to be changed because too many of the players hadn't been able to get to the hall - a mini "Hammer Blow" of fate?), I'm quite sure that after the onslaught of those first two allegro movements I would need the respite of the Andante before being plunged into the hellish maelstrom of the finale.