Even if one doesn't agree with your judgements, David (I mostly do), the pure savagery and colour and richness of your reactions are a true delight. Long may the Scatalogical Scarves of Scuminess bring cheer and laughter to our love of music!
Fabulous. I've seen the white and the scarlet scarves once each, but never have I seen the whole array of Scarves of Irredeemability all in one fell swoop. What a tour de force! On to the next awards ceremony!
Its such a pleasure to watch you as well as listen when you eviscerate the _creme de la crap_ with such uninhibited gusto. I havent heard any of these recordings and now I can take care to avoid any accidental exposure. (I presume nothing from the Jascha Horenstein archives was released this year, given his absence from the awards list). I look forward to the day you will gleefully confer upon some deserving maestro the ultimate honorific as "the Ed Wood of conductors" for accumulating a lifetime catalog of wooden performances.
Rattle's Stravinsky Ballets and Bruckner's Fourth with the LSO both got 5 stars in the BBC Music Magazine. Is there a transatlantic culture clash here?
The Brit critics have zero credibility when it comes to Brit musicians. They love everything, good or bad. You have to look elsewhere for impartiality. If David ever does a "Jingoism in Music Criticism" Awards show, I'm sure the Brits would sweep the board.
Bravo, Dave! One highlight - about Norrington, you said, "You wish that his retirement meant something, don't you?" Yes, I'm guessing that many of us do. You've read the room!
I was choking with laughter half the time. Poor Simon Rattle, I'm almost - almost! - sorry for him. But I guess he has his knighthood and million-dollar contracts to console him.
Excellent, my favorite video of the year! Though I have to ask, what do the different types of scarves actually mean in terms of their respective recordings? What classes of errors does each scarf cover?
I agree with you completely regarding Mäkelä. I'm so skeptical of skyrocket fame and synthetically generated demand to the point of skipping a subscription concert with him leading. Don't get me wrong, I really like young conductors but don't use a firehose on us. Martinů is too important to me to hear sub-par recordings. You saved me some time.
I have a Handel biography written by Hogwood. My god, it's the driest thing imaginable! Who would have thought Handel's life could be made to sound like an accounting book!
I must say, again an excellent entertaining and educational video. In the so-called classical music world, it is heart-warming to see when crap can simply be called crap. Political incorrectness is totally out of place here too. I find the attacks on personality cults particularly amusing because these attacks are especially necessary in the whitewashed marble hall of legend formation. Composers and interprets are also just people who are allowed to have a bad day. Thank you Mr. Hurwitz, have a good time!
Today's NY Times reviewed Makela's performance and called his Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky symphonies "studies in letting a score speak for itself. Whether that works is largely a matter of taste. . . . He did manage to lend both symphonies a legible, compelling shape, if at a bit of a remove. . . . Makela's conducting was so deferential to the score, it was tempting to shake him and ask, 'But what do you REALLY thinK?'" Not exactly a boffo review or one that supports the view of him in that fulsome NYT profile several weeks back, which was basically an unqualified rave, quoting players in Paris, Amsterdam, Oslo about how within a few bars of a rehearsal, they knew this was SOMETHING SPECIAL, etc. Guess we'll just have to see what emerges from all the hype.
Love this. In our hearts, we always know your right. The truth pours out whether we like it or not. Youve caused me to relisten to records I once held dear, and made me realize I hadnt listened critically. And I had some pretty bad records. I tended to cherish the recordings that first introduced me to a piece of music. Since i didnt have you when i began putting a collection together, I was flying blind, buying what I could afford. I got lucky with Bruno Walters Brahms and Mahler, but many others were Joe Conductor with the Zagreb 7/11 orchestra on a buget label or cut out. I eventually learned that a bad performance is not always better than none at all!
Credit where credit is due: thanks to Dave and Classics Today, not one of these discs wound up in my collection. The ghost of B.H. Haggin might have called them the STA Awards, the Somethings To Avoid..
Let’s be honest… part of Klaus’s star appeal is the great hair and beautiful blue eyes. I mean, look at the photo they used for the cover of that Sibelius set!
Interesting comment…got a chance to listen to his Tchaikovsky 6th with NYPhil last Saturday, and I was not impressed at all. The brass-strings balance was completely off in some sections and I haven’t heard a single interesting artistic choice throughout his entire interpretation. Will go to Chicago for his Mahler 5th in February (second time I watch him live), but was curious to know from this very competent forum if anyone has a different opinion…
@@gianlucadanzeo5791 I’ll be attending Mahler 5/CSO as well and am course hoping it’s a wonderful performance. It could very well be the first (and last) Mahler 5 with my friend David Cooper in the principal horn chair. He was shockingly and obnoxiously denied tenure by the orchestra, but that’s another story.
Klaus is hot. It seems like looks are important for new pianist, but I didn't think conductors would be evaluated this way. I've heard the beginning of the kids' Shostakovich7, and thought it was decent. But, yes, this Sibelius is not getting played a second time by me...ever.
There does seem to be a general trend in the industry to give pretentious and stereotyped profiles for young musicians (DG does it the best by far, with their awkward aesthetic videos). But I'd hold off judging any artist just because they look too good on CD covers. I too plan to attend Klaus' Mahler 5 with CSO and am really looking forward to it. I've not listened to any of Klaus' recording or live yet, but if anything I'd rather trust RCO's consistently high standard when picking their boss
Try Bernstein with the LSO on ICA Classics DVD for a dull and flat Rite of Spring. It was the first anniversary of Stravinsky's death. The Symphony of Psalms in the same concert was fine. I think Bernstein betters Rattle for sluggishness. I was at the concert and the disappointment has remained in the memory banks.
I loved Xavier-Roth's Berlioz Symphonie Fantastic and just got the Messe solennelle too, but I do have a feeling that kind of sound will be inappropriate for Mahler; I mean who don't want rich orchestral sound for Mahler? Clearly a mismatch. I'm off to see how bad the Schubert late quartets can get now 😂
Completely unrelated because I didn't know how to reach you, but thought you'd probably like to know: someone's masquerading as you on UA-cam and replying to viewers' comments with the following message: "Tell Max I referred you to him about a business decision that will change your life!" I don't think you've been hacked, someone has created a few channel with the m in music not in caps.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It's a fairly crude attempt to mimic your channel. I don't think any of your subscribers would be fooled by it. Just an unfortunate byproduct of UA-cam and other internet services.
Well, if they allow Cate Blanchett to conduct Mahler on DG anything goes, by the looks of it (Have you seen the film TAR, about a female conductor who has a psychotic episode?)
@@leestamm3187 ThanKs. I took you up on that and read the review. The cover of the DG album has Cate Blanchett as the conductor, so I don't know what is going on there. Slatkin says she can't conduct.
@@ahartify I'll take Slatkin's word for it. He knows his business. Probably best to think of it as drama and forget the conducting aspect. I'm with David in having no interest in seeing it.
Pure joy 😁😂😁😂😁😂we have ti thank for the the bad ones because it gives the maestro of critics the opportunity for his cannonade of adjectives 😂😁😂😁😂can't wait for the Kolas
That was brutal and funny. I did listen to Sir Simon Rattle's Mahler: Symphony No. 9 when I was going through video 28 of the Essential Beginner's lists and for my notes I gave it a Three and half out of five stars and wrote it was a fine symphony but not a favorite. Now I am thinking it might be the recording/conductor not the symphony that left me felling so neutral so I will try another recording.
The English classical music critics were and are a disgrace. They recommended Menuhin records when he was clearly nowhere near the level of Milstein, Oistrakh, Kogan, Heifetz, Grumiaux or Rabin. They trashed Glenn Gould records with the same mindless orthodoxy that they now praise them. Basically, they were in the pockets of people in the industry and still are. This explains the success of Rattle and Norrington, the knighthood of Sir Andras Schiff, possibly the dullest pianist on the planet, and all the other gutless, spineless performances they praise with the sincerity normally reserved for fawning courtiers. The BBC has the aging 'rock star' Rick Wakeman now on the proms team. Gotterdumbingdown!
David, Klaus Mäkelä does a good job with Sibelius symphonies 4-7, much in the timbre of the Karajan recordings of the late 1960's. Indeed the first two symphonies come out somewhat unbalanced in tempo and balance ( here and there some solos are even nearly dropping out). Of course it is not a phenomenal new set of recordings, and he could have waited with such a project to a bit later. This I say because I would have wished him to record these with the Concertgebouw Orchestra... 😄
@@tonysanderson4031 I think, Tony, that the British press is rather biased in favor of English recordings in general and gives a pass to performances that shouldn't pass muster. In the case of the recording in question the majesty and mystery is missing in Rattle's interpretation everything is rushed, compare to Wand with Berlin or Blomstedt/Dresden or Bohm/Vienna...
I think that these people know of these great works and maybe even why they are great works. But their feeling is "if you can't do it better, then make it different". You know Dave, talks on this subject is only talks you do that I don't go out and try to seek them out. But I must confess, I have too many dogs in my collection. Often I buy what I think might be interesting and then regret it. (aka John)
Doing cycles in a sitting, I would suppose - and fully agree! Having a cycle come together / accrue over time from individual recordings made with an eye on the whole, but with attention and appreciation of the individual work at hand is the way to build it, as has been proven many times. Such cycles are often marvelous, but they take years and even decades for a serious conductor... and today's media + companies just don't have the patience (should I rather use the word good sense?). So guys like Klaus Makela are given reigns to Rattle off those works like they were serving fast food at a drive-in. At least that gives material for ALDAs, so SOMETHING of worth comes with it. :))
Mäkelä is Finnish, so he must have Sibelius in his blood, right? Really, this is a tough cycle because no two symphonies in the cycle are quite alike, so a young conductor needs to master one of these at a time. I'd rather trust Mehta or Ozawa, neither of whom is anywhere near being Finnish on this repertory (if they did it) than someone just not ready. I know about Maazel, Bernstein, Davis (Boston), and Järvi (OK, he's close) and individual recordings by Ormandy, Karajan, Beecham, etc. I've heard the Jacobs on UA-cam. It is clear in texture, but this is like praising a cake for being able to taste the flour and the eggs. That is not what I am looking for in a cake. Moments are interesting, but to get to those moments one must botch the rest. One might as well listen to a synthesized performance, where one expects this. Schubert wrote his symphonies to be blended completely and not to be reduced to lines.
Hysterical! Might you consider adding a category for Critical Malfeasance each year? eg. Richard Osborne's non-review of the superb Ormandy Mono box - which you took down in one of you best videos? BTW I very much hope you will be reviewing the upcoming Ansermet and van Beinum boxes....?
Every time Rattle's Le sacre du printemps had it going, the orchestra returned to snoozing. The only recommendation for this approach is that it invokes in the listener an unmistakably profound sense of disappointment.
I am surprised that Sir Simon Rattle was even chosen to be the conductor of the great Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra . His baton technique is all over the place! I understand that is now the Chief conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra. Poor Londoners.
After about a minute back in London he abandoned the LSO for the Bavarian Radio Symphony. Let's see what he can do to their great tradition of music-making.
I think Karajan suggested Rattle as a successor for the same reason that Klemperer recommended Hindemith once as a conductor of the Philharmonia to Walter Legge: so that people would realise how lucky they were before!
Oh my gosh! Excellent talk; amusing, informative, bitchy, true: I love every word of it! Mahler on period instruments!!!!! WTF! Slightly off-piste, my long-standing beige scarf of turpitude, has to be Mitsuko Uchida's Mozart piano concertos; everyone raves about them - one was even BBC Radio 3's 'winning' choice for concerto no. 21, last Saturday! My croissant nearly fell into my lap. They are a dull, weak, monochromatic, boring plink-fest.
@@moviedave2001 First cycle with Jeffrey Tate, on Philips. I haven't heard any of her Cleveland cycle. Her Debussy solo work - also Philips, is however, superb.
The English magazines are very good at jumping on the bandwagons of these "wunderkinds". I believe the critics are required to always be upbeat on second rate recordings.
Have not heard Mäkelä’s Sibelius, but his Stravinsky Rite and Firebird that just came out is a dud! Firebird is so bland and unimaginative to bore one s…..less!
We all know that Celibiache did not like recording, and did not like his own recordings. But some people like to make money with it. Just the name sells, not the music. Celibidache worth a listen, but not a worship.
Well, I am grateful that his Bruckner recordings exist. But yes, over 25 years after his death, to release recordings with a merely mediocre sound quality, as if they had been recorded yesterday, is pure commerce without meaning.
@@janektreiber9457 It makes me feel quite a bit of shame on the part of his heirs who allow themselves to mindlessly butcher what there is of an artist's legacy by OK'ing releases of basically anything from Celibidache's live recordings stockpile. There ARE good performances by Celi (even though you have to really sift through with an open mind), but is anybody at least trying to do any sensitive and sensible selection with those archives? OR is everything that was any good perhaps already released and over with?..
@@bigg2988 To answer the question in a brief way. Yes, I think the best recordings ( audio-technically as well as musically) have been released since the beginning of the 2000s at the latest. Now, as you say, they are clearing out the archives and unpacking everything that is still there. 💸
I always wonder Dave if, having reviewed these stinkers and found them to be so, do they still retain a space on your hallowed shelves, or do you dump them in the nearest charity shop to spread more joy unto the world? 🤣🤣🤣😂😂
A big part of Klaus's appeal is his very youthfulness; hence the sell out at the Proms (tho' Yuja Wang had a lot to do with that as well). How to get those butt's in seats-beginning butts, that is. You are preaching to the choir here about him and his Sibelius; but I am afraid it will simply go on, particularly because his 'aura' seems to elicit some pandering reviews as you mentioned. Perhaps one day he may....who knows? Only if he can take himself with some self effacement...
Bad from the first note? This, I gotta hear! It looks like I would only last a few bars. I don’t know how you listen to all this stuff, but I’m glad you do.😳😂
Matinu by Norrington just looks so awful on paper, I dont need to actually hear it. I can tell just how it must sound. NOTHING qualifies him for that ( or most other) music. When he first made a splash with his Beethoven 9th and was being promoted heavily I was saying to myself " who are they trying to kid? " it took years, but everyone began to figure out there was no there there.
Even if one doesn't agree with your judgements, David (I mostly do), the pure savagery and colour and richness of your reactions are a true delight. Long may the Scatalogical Scarves of Scuminess bring cheer and laughter to our love of music!
Fabulous. I've seen the white and the scarlet scarves once each, but never have I seen the whole array of Scarves of Irredeemability all in one fell swoop. What a tour de force! On to the next awards ceremony!
Its such a pleasure to watch you as well as listen when you eviscerate the _creme de la crap_ with such uninhibited gusto. I havent heard any of these recordings and now I can take care to avoid any accidental exposure. (I presume nothing from the Jascha Horenstein archives was released this year, given his absence from the awards list). I look forward to the day you will gleefully confer upon some deserving maestro the ultimate honorific as "the Ed Wood of conductors" for accumulating a lifetime catalog of wooden performances.
Marvelous use of descriptors! Perhaps next year you will add the Plaid Scarf of piteous ineptitude.
An excellent suggestion!
Way to go, Dave. Informative and wildly entertaining. More, please.
David, your next party record is coming soon; the complete Roger Norrington Warner Recordings.😄
Yes, with that weird Beethoven 5th piano concerto with Melvyn Tan, where the slow movement as played as Andante Formula-uno. Blegh.
Is that the same as the complete Erato recordings?
@@danielhornby5581 yes.
@@fred6904 Really hoping that Dave reviews it
It will be a review like no other. Cannot wait.
Fabulous, just fabulous, and fun to show our passion when our passion is defiled.
Now, don't hold back, Dave... tell us what you REALLY think! Always a treat to listen to your thoughts on music.
Rattle's Stravinsky Ballets and Bruckner's Fourth with the LSO both got 5 stars in the BBC Music Magazine. Is there a transatlantic culture clash here?
I don't think so. But some critics listen and others don't.
The Brit critics have zero credibility when it comes to Brit musicians. They love everything, good or bad. You have to look elsewhere for impartiality. If David ever does a "Jingoism in Music Criticism" Awards show, I'm sure the Brits would sweep the board.
Simon Rattle can't do wrong with British critics
@@Mooseman327 Sadly true.
Come on David tell us what you really think and this time don't hold anything back. I love this channel you made my day thank you.
sometimes you have to listen to the bottom of the barrel to truly appreciate the cream of the crop
Bravo, Dave! One highlight - about Norrington, you said, "You wish that his retirement meant something, don't you?" Yes, I'm guessing that many of us do. You've read the room!
I guess Thielemann didn't do enough dirt to make the list this year.
Thielemann is like New York Chinese takeout, you eat it and you are hungry 3 hours later for real music.
I watched this when first released. I had to come back. Like a fly to proverbial, well, you know, the S word. Hilarious. Bravo. More. More.
I can’t say I’m surprised by your choices, but I genuinely love listening to your complaints as much as I hope you enjoy complaining.
I was choking with laughter half the time. Poor Simon Rattle, I'm almost - almost! - sorry for him. But I guess he has his knighthood and million-dollar contracts to console him.
Yeah, I don't think he cares about my opinion...
@@DavesClassicalGuide Oh, and thank you for your comments, not so much about Celibidache, as about Celibidache cultists.
Thanks David. Glad to see you found your scarves in one of your boxes 🤣
how on earth do you perform rite of spring WITHOUT rhythmic intensity?! then again, I'm often complaining it's never intense enough.
awesome. - this and KOLA are my favorites of the year
Excellent, my favorite video of the year! Though I have to ask, what do the different types of scarves actually mean in terms of their respective recordings? What classes of errors does each scarf cover?
I wouldn't take it that seriously...badness comes in many overlapping forms.
I knew FX Roth would make this list at least once. Can't stop laughing. Cheers
Of course Roth knows what Mahler wanted more than Bruno Walter. The arrogance of Roth knows no bounds.
You had me at Rene Jacobs. Now I have to hear this!
I agree with you completely regarding Mäkelä. I'm so skeptical of skyrocket fame and synthetically generated demand to the point of skipping a subscription concert with him leading. Don't get me wrong, I really like young conductors but don't use a firehose on us.
Martinů is too important to me to hear sub-par recordings. You saved me some time.
Haven't heard any ov em but entirely prepared to take your word for it; super entertaining as ever!
I have a Handel biography written by Hogwood. My god, it's the driest thing imaginable! Who would have thought Handel's life could be made to sound like an accounting book!
I must say, again an excellent entertaining and educational video. In the so-called classical music world, it is heart-warming to see when crap can simply be called crap. Political incorrectness is totally out of place here too. I find the attacks on personality cults particularly amusing because these attacks are especially necessary in the whitewashed marble hall of legend formation. Composers and interprets are also just people who are allowed to have a bad day. Thank you Mr. Hurwitz, have a good time!
Today's NY Times reviewed Makela's performance and called his Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky symphonies "studies in letting a score speak for itself. Whether that works is largely a matter of taste. . . . He did manage to lend both symphonies a legible, compelling shape, if at a bit of a remove. . . . Makela's conducting was so deferential to the score, it was tempting to shake him and ask, 'But what do you REALLY thinK?'"
Not exactly a boffo review or one that supports the view of him in that fulsome NYT profile several weeks back, which was basically an unqualified rave, quoting players in Paris, Amsterdam, Oslo about how within a few bars of a rehearsal, they knew this was SOMETHING SPECIAL, etc. Guess we'll just have to see what emerges from all the hype.
I love Rattle getting smashed to pieces. I learnt 15+ years ago not to bother with him.
I get irritated just thinking about the man.
Love this. In our hearts, we always know your right. The truth pours out whether we like it or not. Youve caused me to relisten to records I once held dear, and made me realize I hadnt listened critically. And I had some pretty bad records. I tended to cherish the recordings that first introduced me to a piece of music. Since i didnt have you when i began putting a collection together, I was flying blind, buying what I could afford. I got lucky with Bruno Walters Brahms and Mahler, but many others were Joe Conductor with the Zagreb 7/11 orchestra on a buget label or cut out. I eventually learned that a bad performance is not always better than none at all!
Thank you. I should point out that the competition to the Zagreb 7/11 Orchestra, the Zagreb Cumberland Farms Philharmonic, is much better.
Credit where credit is due: thanks to Dave and Classics Today, not one of these discs wound up in my collection. The ghost of B.H. Haggin might have called them the STA Awards, the Somethings To Avoid..
I was thinking you'd choose a runny interpretation of Pictures At an Exhibition for the turquoise scarf of musical turpentine.
Let’s be honest… part of Klaus’s star appeal is the great hair and beautiful blue eyes. I mean, look at the photo they used for the cover of that Sibelius set!
Interesting comment…got a chance to listen to his Tchaikovsky 6th with NYPhil last Saturday, and I was not impressed at all. The brass-strings balance was completely off in some sections and I haven’t heard a single interesting artistic choice throughout his entire interpretation. Will go to Chicago for his Mahler 5th in February (second time I watch him live), but was curious to know from this very competent forum if anyone has a different opinion…
@@gianlucadanzeo5791 I’ll be attending Mahler 5/CSO as well and am course hoping it’s a wonderful performance. It could very well be the first (and last) Mahler 5 with my friend David Cooper in the principal horn chair. He was shockingly and obnoxiously denied tenure by the orchestra, but that’s another story.
@@gianlucadanzeo5791Does ANY (new) conductor play Tchaikovsky well at the moment?
Klaus is hot. It seems like looks are important for new pianist, but I didn't think conductors would be evaluated this way. I've heard the beginning of the kids' Shostakovich7, and thought it was decent. But, yes, this Sibelius is not getting played a second time by me...ever.
There does seem to be a general trend in the industry to give pretentious and stereotyped profiles for young musicians (DG does it the best by far, with their awkward aesthetic videos). But I'd hold off judging any artist just because they look too good on CD covers. I too plan to attend Klaus' Mahler 5 with CSO and am really looking forward to it. I've not listened to any of Klaus' recording or live yet, but if anything I'd rather trust RCO's consistently high standard when picking their boss
9:14 Excellent Miracle Max impression, Dave!
Try Bernstein with the LSO on ICA Classics DVD for a dull and flat Rite of Spring. It was the first anniversary of Stravinsky's death. The Symphony of Psalms in the same concert was fine. I think Bernstein betters Rattle for sluggishness. I was at the concert and the disappointment has remained in the memory banks.
Chapeau, Dave. “It’s musical rape!” 😭😭😭
I loved Xavier-Roth's Berlioz Symphonie Fantastic and just got the Messe solennelle too, but I do have a feeling that kind of sound will be inappropriate for Mahler; I mean who don't want rich orchestral sound for Mahler? Clearly a mismatch. I'm off to see how bad the Schubert late quartets can get now 😂
One irony is that the soprano in the finale is simply wonderful. You can hear this on YT, at least for now.
What about Teodor Currentzis?
Might want to let the CDC know about rhese recordings.
My gosh I'm lucky. I haven't bought any of them!!
Haven't unpacked the horse yet?
Decorating the stables..
Completely unrelated because I didn't know how to reach you, but thought you'd probably like to know: someone's masquerading as you on UA-cam and replying to viewers' comments with the following message:
"Tell Max I referred you to him about a business decision that will change your life!"
I don't think you've been hacked, someone has created a few channel with the m in music not in caps.
Happened to one of my comments in the community section where you posted about moving.
Thanks for letting me know. I guess there's nothing we can do about it.
@@siddharthasohoni673 Me, too.
@@DavesClassicalGuide It's a fairly crude attempt to mimic your channel. I don't think any of your subscribers would be fooled by it. Just an unfortunate byproduct of UA-cam and other internet services.
Can’t wait for the crème
Well, if they allow Cate Blanchett to conduct Mahler on DG anything goes, by the looks of it (Have you seen the film TAR, about a female conductor who has a psychotic episode?)
No, and I don't intend to, although I hear it's a terrific film.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Leonard Slatkin reviewed it on his website, in case you care about his opinion.
@@leestamm3187 ThanKs. I took you up on that and read the review. The cover of the DG album has Cate Blanchett as the conductor, so I don't know what is going on there. Slatkin says she can't conduct.
@@ahartify I'll take Slatkin's word for it. He knows his business. Probably best to think of it as drama and forget the conducting aspect. I'm with David in having no interest in seeing it.
This is an actual thing that exists?!
Pure joy 😁😂😁😂😁😂we have ti thank for the the bad ones because it gives the maestro of critics the opportunity for his cannonade of adjectives 😂😁😂😁😂can't wait for the Kolas
That was brutal and funny. I did listen to Sir Simon Rattle's Mahler: Symphony No. 9 when I was going through video 28 of the Essential Beginner's lists and for my notes I gave it a Three and half out of five stars and wrote it was a fine symphony but not a favorite. Now I am thinking it might be the recording/conductor not the symphony that left me felling so neutral so I will try another recording.
try bruno walter- who knew mahler!
The English classical music critics were and are a disgrace. They recommended Menuhin records when he was clearly nowhere near the level of Milstein, Oistrakh, Kogan, Heifetz, Grumiaux or Rabin. They trashed Glenn Gould records with the same mindless orthodoxy that they now praise them. Basically, they were in the pockets of people in the industry and still are. This explains the success of Rattle and Norrington, the knighthood of Sir Andras Schiff, possibly the dullest pianist on the planet, and all the other gutless, spineless performances they praise with the sincerity normally reserved for fawning courtiers. The BBC has the aging 'rock star' Rick Wakeman now on the proms team. Gotterdumbingdown!
Thanks for these non-reccomendations! I will listen to these, and weigh your verdicts...
David, Klaus Mäkelä does a good job with Sibelius symphonies 4-7, much in the timbre of the Karajan recordings of the late 1960's. Indeed the first two symphonies come out somewhat unbalanced in tempo and balance ( here and there some solos are even nearly dropping out). Of course it is not a phenomenal new set of recordings, and he could have waited with such a project to a bit later. This I say because I would have wished him to record these with the Concertgebouw Orchestra... 😄
...thanks for taking down Rattle in Bruckner, the British press gave the recording inexplicable raves and after a brief listen I was stupefied...
5* in BBC Music Magazine for the new fourth. Is there a difference in Bruckner culture on the two sides of the pond?
@@tonysanderson4031 I think, Tony, that the British press is rather biased in favor of English recordings in general and gives a pass to performances that shouldn't pass muster. In the case of the recording in question the majesty and mystery is missing in Rattle's interpretation everything is rushed, compare to Wand with Berlin or Blomstedt/Dresden or Bohm/Vienna...
That was fun!
I think that these people know of these great works and maybe even why they are great works. But their feeling is "if you can't do it better, then make it different". You know Dave, talks on this subject is only talks you do that I don't go out and try to seek them out. But I must confess, I have too many dogs in my collection. Often I buy what I think might be interesting and then regret it. (aka John)
Doing "cycles" is, I think, a generally stupid and massively overrated trend.
Doing cycles in a sitting, I would suppose - and fully agree!
Having a cycle come together / accrue over time from individual recordings made with an eye on the whole, but with attention and appreciation of the individual work at hand is the way to build it, as has been proven many times. Such cycles are often marvelous, but they take years and even decades for a serious conductor... and today's media + companies just don't have the patience (should I rather use the word good sense?). So guys like Klaus Makela are given reigns to Rattle off those works like they were serving fast food at a drive-in. At least that gives material for ALDAs, so SOMETHING of worth comes with it. :))
Mäkelä is Finnish, so he must have Sibelius in his blood, right? Really, this is a tough cycle because no two symphonies in the cycle are quite alike, so a young conductor needs to master one of these at a time. I'd rather trust Mehta or Ozawa, neither of whom is anywhere near being Finnish on this repertory (if they did it) than someone just not ready. I know about Maazel, Bernstein, Davis (Boston), and Järvi (OK, he's close) and individual recordings by Ormandy, Karajan, Beecham, etc.
I've heard the Jacobs on UA-cam. It is clear in texture, but this is like praising a cake for being able to taste the flour and the eggs. That is not what I am looking for in a cake. Moments are interesting, but to get to those moments one must botch the rest. One might as well listen to a synthesized performance, where one expects this. Schubert wrote his symphonies to be blended completely and not to be reduced to lines.
Hysterical! Might you consider adding a category for Critical Malfeasance each year? eg. Richard Osborne's non-review of the superb Ormandy Mono box - which you took down in one of you best videos? BTW I very much hope you will be reviewing the upcoming Ansermet and van Beinum boxes....?
Sure I will! Deep breath...
Every time Rattle's Le sacre du printemps had it going, the orchestra returned to snoozing. The only recommendation for this approach is that it invokes in the listener an unmistakably profound sense of disappointment.
More of Sir Simon’s Prattle I see….
I am surprised that Sir Simon Rattle was even chosen to be the conductor of the great Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra . His baton technique is all over the place! I understand that is now the Chief conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra. Poor Londoners.
After about a minute back in London he abandoned the LSO for the Bavarian Radio Symphony. Let's see what he can do to their great tradition of music-making.
@@tom6693 That would make sense. He is returning to a Germanic country where he was accepted previously by the Berlin Philharmonic
I think Karajan suggested Rattle as a successor for the same reason that Klemperer recommended Hindemith once as a conductor of the Philharmonia to Walter Legge: so that people would realise how lucky they were before!
Oh my gosh! Excellent talk; amusing, informative, bitchy, true: I love every word of it! Mahler on period instruments!!!!! WTF!
Slightly off-piste, my long-standing beige scarf of turpitude, has to be Mitsuko Uchida's Mozart piano concertos; everyone raves about them - one was even BBC Radio 3's 'winning' choice for concerto no. 21, last Saturday! My croissant nearly fell into my lap. They are a dull, weak, monochromatic, boring plink-fest.
Are you talking about her first cycle with the English Chamber orchestra, or her new cycle with Cleveland, with Uchida as soloist and conductor.
@@moviedave2001 First cycle with Jeffrey Tate, on Philips. I haven't heard any of her Cleveland cycle. Her Debussy solo work - also Philips, is however, superb.
@@Bezart34 I actually quite like her first cycle.
@@moviedave2001 Many do, I know. To me, I find it colourless.
I went to hear her live after all the raves about her Mozart. I can't remember anything remarkable at all about her playing. Nothing.
The English magazines are very good at jumping on the bandwagons of these "wunderkinds". I believe the critics are required to always be upbeat on second rate recordings.
I just hope Mäkelä gets his act together for his upcoming Bruckner symphony cycle with the Concertgebouw Orchestra. I have tickets for the 8th.
Have not heard Mäkelä’s Sibelius, but his Stravinsky Rite and Firebird that just came out is a dud! Firebird is so bland and unimaginative to bore one s…..less!
I can hardly wait!
We all know that Celibiache did not like recording, and did not like his own recordings. But some people like to make money with it. Just the name sells, not the music. Celibidache worth a listen, but not a worship.
Well, I am grateful that his Bruckner recordings exist. But yes, over 25 years after his death, to release recordings with a merely mediocre sound quality, as if they had been recorded yesterday, is pure commerce without meaning.
@@janektreiber9457 It makes me feel quite a bit of shame on the part of his heirs who allow themselves to mindlessly butcher what there is of an artist's legacy by OK'ing releases of basically anything from Celibidache's live recordings stockpile. There ARE good performances by Celi (even though you have to really sift through with an open mind), but is anybody at least trying to do any sensitive and sensible selection with those archives? OR is everything that was any good perhaps already released and over with?..
@@bigg2988 To answer the question in a brief way. Yes, I think the best recordings ( audio-technically as well as musically) have been released since the beginning of the 2000s at the latest. Now, as you say, they are clearing out the archives and unpacking everything that is still there. 💸
That is quite true.
I always wonder Dave if, having reviewed these stinkers and found them to be so, do they still retain a space on your hallowed shelves, or do you dump them in the nearest charity shop to spread more joy unto the world? 🤣🤣🤣😂😂
Most of the time, I dump them.
A big part of Klaus's appeal is his very youthfulness; hence the sell out at the Proms (tho' Yuja Wang had a lot to do with that as well). How to get those butt's in seats-beginning butts, that is. You are preaching to the choir here about him and his Sibelius; but I am afraid it will simply go on, particularly because his 'aura' seems to elicit some pandering reviews as you mentioned. Perhaps one day he may....who knows? Only if he can take himself with some self effacement...
Bad from the first note? This, I gotta hear! It looks like I would only last a few bars. I don’t know how you listen to all this stuff, but I’m glad you do.😳😂
Matinu by Norrington just looks so awful on paper, I dont need to actually hear it. I can tell just how it must sound. NOTHING qualifies him for that ( or most other) music. When he first made a splash with his Beethoven 9th and was being promoted heavily I was saying to myself " who are they trying to kid? " it took years, but everyone began to figure out there was no there there.
"Musical rape" Lordy!
Roth is essentially accoladed and praised to the point where it's not even funny
Makena is the modern Era Simon Rattle.
We are witnessing the whole thing all over again ...God help us🤪😬😵💫🤮
Sibelius is not the only composer whose music the Oslo Kid has ruined with his puerile performances.
Dave, you need a subtitles writer who knows how to spell "chutzpah!"