Sunset Heights is a WILD inclusion the more that you think about it: It's a game in the remake of Sonic Generations, using Sonic Frotiers physics, in the setting of Sonic Forces, borrowing the plot of Shadow the Hedgehog, running on the gameplay model of Sonic Unleashed. There are so many layers going on here.
I'm sorry but this gameplay model is really not like Sonic Unleashed, the way you control and the level design isn't really like it in my opinion. Shadow just feels so tight to play/control
Modern Knuckles: “Where’s the rest of my island?” Classic Sonic: _rubs his tummy_ Clearly, this suggests that Classic Sonic ate the rest of Modern Knuckles’s island.
I hope that the dev team actually takes to heart the lessons actually taught in Shadow Generations, you can look over what happened with the past fondly, but in the end, you have to leave the past behind and move on to new things
I'ma be completely honest, forces wasn't unintentionally bad, Sonic team had as long as they needed to make it yet they somehow made the entire game in 1 year Whereas a game like sonic 06 actually tried to be good but just had issues, Sega forced a deadline on them, and their head programmer left halfway through the games development You can still tell the game is actually top tier as long as you just fix the bugs It's like sonic forces didn't even try
I strongly disagree with the idea that Radical Highway shouldn't have been where it was used. The first time Shadow went through Radical Highway, he went through it holding Maria's wish in his heart, "Revenge". Now, he is going through it with Maria's true wish, to make everyone happy, and quite literally flying through it.
That's a great way to look at it. That's something I hadn't thought about and this interpretation just shot my enjoyment of Gens Radical Highway up high
I agree but I recently played shadow 05 to get a feel of what shadow might be (I guess) before this game and it was surprising that no stages are from 05 , like seriously westopolies is the perfect stage to bring back along with the black comet (westoplies is like city stage I know but for how much you have to replay it to end all the endings in the game , it's infamous)
that's a cute lore-related way to look at it, but that doesn't really change the fact that it's a stage that gets reused 5(!!) times in one game while shadow '05 didn't get _any_ representation beyond subtle level design callbacks like the beginning of radical highway act 2
@bucket9486 I mean... the main villian is literally from Shad05 and the final boss is from Shad05 minus the second phase, it definitely got representation past Easter Eggs
Shadow did actually have something to say about chaos island and Sunset Heights but it’s tucked away in a text only dialogue with Gerald when he responds to shadow saying “oh so you’ve seen places you don’t recognize? then perhaps you’re seeing the future as well as the past.”
Yeah I was surprised J didn't bring that up. I suppose a lot of people miss all the optional dialogue, because you have to talk to all the characters after each major stage and talk to them three times in a row to see it all.
@@yoursonisold8743 yeah that dialog should be more easily accessible like give us a notification on screen saying X character has new thing to say. And for them to be voice acted cuz like cmon surely they can afford it.
There is actually quite an important bit of new lore about Black Doom. Black Doom is a *parasite* and the Black Arms are effectively a hive mind. Black Doom survived using the Black Leech used to create Shadow that was still alive aboard the ARK [and it's this that Shadow sensed at the start of the game so went to the ARK]; as Black Doom can essencially transfer himself to other Black Arms when he dies, but it took a while for that leech to basically grow into Doom again. Doom's plan the entire time was to take over Shadow to become even more powerful. But Shadow has something no other Black Arms has; Free Will, and was able to deny Black Doom and fight him off. Although this does raise questions to to why the Black Arms attack Shadow even when he's helping Black Doom in StH... if they are literally a hive mind with Doom. But I guess that's somewhat explained by Doom wanting Shadow to reach his full potential before taking him over to maximise Doom's future power.
The real reason is of course that making the grunt NPCs sense whether you're fighting for or against them at a given time could lead to too many exploits of getting by combat areas with no difficulty. Not wanting or not having the time to rethink mission designs for the alignment system.
The best rewrite in the game IMO is Shadow saying “On your feet.” Just sounds a lot more in character and badass, granted the story is kind of ass anyways, but it’s a nice touch
I'mma be honest that line is just like the original one, it doesn't change anything for that i would prefer it if they put the japanese one where he says "show me what you're made of"
@@jersont.3339 But then people would complain about Ian Flynn making references where they 'don't belong'. Either way people are going to complain. At least the rewrite we got for that line kept the meaning of the original ("I know you can do this") while sounding a little less silly.
@@jersont.3339 you also have to consider writing for the lip flap animations as well, so unfortunately i don't think that could fit without reanimating and re-timing the cutscene and score completely.
You clearly missed the point of the story in both Shadow the Hedgehog and Shadow Generations. Shadow's character arc in Shadow the Hedgehog was about trying to figure out WHO he is and what path he should follow. Keep in mind he still has amnesia through most of the story, and only at the end does he come to terms with his identity and his past. However despite realizing who he is, he knows there isn't anything he can really do with that information, so he elects to move foward and save the world because he believes thats what Maria would have wanted. The end cutscene where shadow leaves behind the picture wasn't him getting closure, it was him just acknowledging that there is nothing left for him to do and moving on with his life. Meanwhile in Shadow Generations, Shadow's character arc is different, NOW it's actually about getting closure. He is literally presented with the chance to change the timeline and save Maria and Gerald from their grim fates. This time he CAN actually do something, hence why he's so emotionally vulnerable this time around. You can literally see it in his body language. At the end when Gerald and Maria are vanishing back to their time, Shadow could have easily told Maria and Gerald about their looming deaths and how G.U.N was going to betray them, why didn't he? Because even if he did it wouldn't change anything. The Maria in his timeline will still be gone, and he will still have to live with the grief. Maria did however give Shadow something he badly needed all the way back at the end of Shadow the Hedgehog and on the day Maria died. She told Shadow even if fate draws them apart, she will always be in his heart. That's the point of his arc, instead of trying to bury his past and trauma like in Shadow the Hedgehog, this time he learns that he CAN still hold onto the good memories he had with Maria, instead of trying to avoid it. In a way one might even say Shadow did save Maria at the end, because now she lives in his heart instead of being forgotten or ignored. That's what makes this story so beautiful.
he's a pretentious freak who only complains about the series at every second, he's literally part of the reason Sega and sonic team keep fucking up sonic cause fans like him are indecisive idiots
Yeah, something that I found was a stroke of subtle genius is when, after Shadow saves Maria and Gerald in Generations, he immediately says to himself that "they must be from a time before the raid on the Ark", and doesn't go through some heavily emotional scene of reuniting with them. He's already accepted their fates and was already in the process of moving on. Being in the white space with them just gives him a more tangible opportunity.
idk i think Shadow 05 already does this? like sure it's not literally stated and shown, but Shadow moving on from his past doesn't mean he like neglected Maria, if he did that he wouldn't keep protecting the world she loved so much imo. i get your point tho, it can seem Shadow 05 tries to make Shadow leave things behind once and for all and make him move on and be himself, but i think it also makes what Shadow gens tells just not that much directly told
I mean they changed the first cutscene and all of modern Sonic's to include his dialogue. They could have changed his animation for something else but probably thought the implication was too funny.
I just hope this reminds Sonic Team that Sonic is better with an action focus. Sure, they shouldn’t be strictly linear, room for exploration is great and even a key ingredient, but I’ll always take tight controls and engaging set pieces over trying to emulate the open world without the radical changes needed to make that work with Sonic.
One thing I will say about the rewrite is that I think it's more about continuity. Even in 2011 I remember people saying it felt like a stretch to have Sonic and Tails not even recognize Green Hill and Chemical Plant, but especially now that they've leaned so hard into callbacks that Sonic seems to go back there every other day, it just stands out even more. Especially now that Sonic Team is trying to get their worldbuilding much more consistent, I could imagine that being the deciding factor.
Yeah, but altering characterization flies in the face of continuity. Especially since one of my favorite character arcs in Frontiers acknowledged how a certain character was depicted for the last few games.
Omg, someone is talking about this! It always weirded me out even as a kid that Sonic and tails just acted like they had never been to chemical plant in that cutscene! It felt weird that the game about celebrating the series past just gave everyone amnesia for some reason .
22:25 To be fair, the delay in the homing attack actually serves a real purpose here. Shadow uses the chaos snap from Sonic 06 when homing attacking enemies, which means he teleports directly to them and can bypass obstacles in the way. This would be REALLY disorienting if it happened instantly, though, which was the case in 06. The slight delay helps the player keep track of where Shadow is going and time their inputs appropriately.
What they could've done instead is have a delay on the first homing attack, but, say, if there are 3 enemies directly in a row, you immediately snap to the 2nd and 3rd enemies. Such a solution would've helped significantly with fluidity, I feel like.
P-06 proves you can have the instant snap and not make it too disorienting. Instead of the camera snapping onto you, it tracks you, follows you as it lags behind slightly. Helps alot with not being disorienting.
Frontiers is one of my favorite Sonic games, it was a shame to me that you were not a fan of the game but I understood your criticisms even if I don't agree with most of them, but seeing you liking a 3D Sonic game after so long makes me happy. Your Sonic videos were building up to this game. We are getting one step closer to that One Way Dream. Edit: I never said Frontiers was the best Sonic game ever made, I only said it's one of my favorite (favorite ≠ best). I know it has problems, but I love it either way.
Frontiers is the Sonic game with my favorite boss fights in the franchise, and I've been with the Hedgehog since 1991. Having four Perfect Chaos tier boss battles was incredible. It's just a shame that the rest of the game leaps back and forth between 2/5 and 4/5 in terms of content. With more time in the oven, a second Frontiers style game may very well be the best 3D Sonic game that Sonic Team ever makes, or at the very least capable of standing alongside Adventure 1 and 2, Unleashed, and Generations with no caveats.
@@abaddon5420 It has the best Super Sonic fights in ANY Sonic game, the characters are well written, the story is well written and it expands the lore in a really good way, it's so fun to play even if it needed more polished, Sage is one the best characters in the franchise since Shadow, we get playable characters after 17 years and they are all unique and fun to play. If you disagree you're valid. This is just how I and many people feel about Frontiers.
38:55 I thought this too, until I realised that half the story is told through the optional npc talks. Big goes fishing with Maria, Shadow talks to Gerald about not recognising Mephilis, Maria's condition actually gets expanded upon, vital information such as "What the fuck is the thing in the sky that the plot revolves around and "how is black doom even alive" are actually explained. Seriously, I think in total there is over 50 unique conversations depending on where you are in the story
I think it’s telling that most people are talking about Mephiles in regards to the story, because it doesn’t feel like an exact redo of the Mephiles fight (tho it for sure has elements). It introduces Mephiles with new wants and desires and imples he wants to come back. This isn’t ‘fight Mephiles’, it’s Mephiles has an arc somehow lol. Hopefully rhey understand this direction going forward that you’re allowed reference somethinbf as long as you do something with it
I'm glad we got to see Memphis Tennessee one more time. It's a nice send-off to the character, one last encounter with Shadow and getting to see him get a nice taste of cosmic irony. He was all smug and cunning last time but now he's a scared, angry, wounded animal desperate to escape oblivion, and he gets beaten by a Shadow who barely even acknowledges him. From all the time in the world, to living on literally borrowed time.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this was kind of a teaser for a possible Mephiles comeback with him saying "I want to exist" and whatnot. Tho honestly it's prolly just me coping.
@@Neoniq41 I would prefer if Mephiles never came back, honestly. I love him, but I think his appearance here is a perfect way of closing the book on his character and the legacy of ‘06 in general. Some things from the past simply need to stay in the past, doesn’t mean we have to forget them. That’s kind of the entire message of the game. Story-wise, that is. I’m still hoping he appears in spin-offs and stuff lol
34:17 If you talk to Gerald after Chaos Island he talks about how Shadow is experiencing worlds and memories of different versions of himself from different timelines
24:48 There are three things you can do with the orbs with Doom Morph. Hold Jump to swing, press Jump to snap to it, and if holding down the swing, if you are directly below the orb and release the jump button then, Shadow would be slingshotted up. My problem with this thing is that its abilities are poorly explained. I still don’t fully understand how the dash ability for the morph works.
I really dont see why people think theyre trying to make Amy and Sonic platonic friends when Sonic frontiers is one of the only times Sonic expressed feeling for Amy. Its more obvious to me that theyre trying to tone it down and make what they have more grounded than it was im the early 2000s and im here for that.
@elijahechicagobearsboyd5734 I wouldn't go that far. I think that trait of hers was definitely one of the most unlikable things in that era but she absolutely had more to offer when it wasn't the focal point
Nah they’re trying to retcon her being obsessed. It’s so lame. Amy being obsessed is way better than her being a feminist. I’d argue it’s even more cringe.
@@JackSkellington__trust me bro, as an anti-woke and feminism hater, that isn't the point on the changes to amy. She's a beloved character that had one trait that was annoying and they're trying to fix. I will though be with you on that if they rewrite amy on unleashed since its the best version of her being lovy dovey about sonic (and i fucking love the dialogue where sonic agrees to go on a date with her).
Thank you for that "enough with nostalgia" line. It's what I've been feeling for almost a decade now. Superstars was a great step towards less nostalgia since all the stages are original, but it's gameplay did not hold up to her classics it was trying to live up to
Amy Should be able to have a crush on Sonic tbh. But instead of making her obsessive, she should be more like a fangirl that wants to keep her cool. She'd gladly jump at any opportunity to be with him, but she's able to pull herself back before it goes too far.
That's how she is in the IDW comics. She still gawks over Sonic, but her whole character doesn't revolve around him, like it was in Heroes or Adventure. She is still very "girly" and all, she didn't lose that trait, but she's not a one-note character anymore, which I appreciate a lot.
I see a lot of Amy discussion nowadays acting like she never had a personality outside of liking Sonic before the change, sure that was her thing and it could be ass at times (like that Heroes encounter) but she was still a great part of the gang
Call it an overreaction. But I got a little emotional hearing that the og shadow game is more well liked now. That was my childhood Sonic game so it’s awesome to see it get love even if the games a huge mess lol
@ just seems to be a cope out when it’s also a level in adventure 2. I get what you mean I would just still like another stage as an actual tribute to 05
I really appreciate that Sonic Team took their time and make this game feel polished. And yes I have a fun time playing this game, so many paths to take for speed running. Heck this is the first game that I have fun with and it makes me want to do speed run in each levels.
For people saying Roger isn't great at acting, Batman Arkham Shadow JUST came out where he played Batman again, and he killed it in the performance (positive).
@@leithaziz2716 To be fair, you can be good at voicing certain characters and not others. Batman is an ultra serious character with a very stoic attitude, Sonic is... the pure opposite, and I'm still not convince by Roger performances on him after multiple games. Yes writing can be special but good actor performances can sometimes salvage it.
For some reason...reading the journal entries made me feel so bad. Ive never cared about sonic lore that much till this game. I learned almost all of shadows past through this game and combined with the main story, lore entries, and that animated prequel i actually almost teared up.
Overall, I think this game is fantastic and I'm really enjoying it, but my only major issue with it, is there is no ShThH 2005 stage. I felt like there is 1 missing stage, when game's formula is basically 2 stages + boss. They should've added something between Chaos Island and Mephiles. Something like Prison Island ,Black Comet or Lava Shelter would've been an amazing addition. And then Radical Highway as final level
@@flipside2086 I actually really appreciate that both acts of Radical Highway are fully in 3D. And all levels at least 3-5 minutes long. You can't find that long levels in any boost game aside Unleashed.
@@МихаилЛотов-о8э Hell the fact that most of Shadow Generations is in 3D is crazy to think about and when you do play the 2D Act 2 it's just as good. Shadow Gens is absolutely shocking with how good the levels are.
If there's one thing I disagree with on the Sonic Gens bit, it's that the Modern Drop Dash doesn't take anything away. If you use the Legacy control style, *it absolutely does* because you'll accidentally keep activating it when confirming a Homing Attack because it's your jump button in the original game. The fact that the Drop Dash is an equippable ability you can turn off for Classic when you'd WANT that to be there all the time and is permanent for Modern Sonic where it actively ruins your flow is baffling, to say the least.
41:15 not just "growth isn't linear" but also shadow's experiences are most definitely traumatic. I mean can you imagine falling from space only to be put into stasis for 50 years because the government stormed your home and shot said friend when you were just having a good day? Losing your home and your entire family, and everyone you've ever known to ever exist would do that to you.
and trauma isn't just "over and done with", it sticks with you for the rest of your life, you'll remember it until the day you die, and depending on the coping mechanisms you learn to deal with it, it's possible to relapse into old ways.
When the only real criticism you can make is "I wish there was more of it", you know you've got a real gem. Add like 2 more stages (not counting the upcoming movie DLC stage) and this game would actually be perfect. Small size aside, I like the stage roster quite a lot. Good variety. Nice to see Sunset Heights be a real level and Chaos Island was the most visually interesting of the 3 biomes in Frontiers so I'm glad that was the rep. Only wished there wasn't so much Radical highway rep. Black Doom coming in a basically doing a "domain expansion" and transforming the stage into something else is a really cool idea and as as well designed as those segments were, I just wish it was with other stage themes instead of only Radical Highway. Imagine if in Chaos Island, Doom brought in Sky Troops to establish a historical connection between the Black Arms and the Ancients from Frontiers or turned Sunset Heights into Westopolis since they're both war zones. Every stage could've had a parallel StH 05 stage come in. Rail Canyon could turn into Lava Shelter or Kingdom Valley becoming Cryptic Castle. Oh well. What we got is still great. The proper Radical Highway is a good final stage, probably the 2nd best zone just behind kingdom valley though it feels like we should've brought back one of the Black Comet stages to close things out. Overall, just add like 2 proper StH 05 stages (Black Comet, Digital Circuit, or Lava Shelter would be good picks) and this whole thing would be the goat. Pretty impressed with White Space as a hub here and I hope this is the general template that we follow for the Frontiers Sequel. Essentially just this but more of it.
Part of me started questioning how they would handle a StH 05 rep when I realized the mechanic of Black Arms serving for the Doom Blast instead of being regular enemies, but your idea of transforming stages into Shadow reps sounds like an amazing compromise.
As they didn't limit themselves to levels that relate to shadow, and had they had more development time, we could have had representation for CD (as a full level and not only a boss), Mania, Superstars, Lost world and obviously Shadow the Hedgehog.
People always use Lost World as the comparison to Frontiers with the whole "good base for the future" case with the later; but as someone who was also around at that time, it was definitely a different vibe. The sentiment with Lost World was more resigned with "Well this is what they want to do now, so I guess we'll see where they go with it," where Frontiers' sentiment was more enthusiastic with "This isn't quite perfect, but what is here is exciting for the future of the series if they iterate on it!"
I disagree with the new frontiers ending making them look insecure, its obvious thats closer to how they really wanted to end the game considering the build up with the titans, the old boss is just the result if them being rushed
14:15 to be fair, even the team wasn’t satisfied with the ending as they didn’t have the time to make it what they wanted. It was there chance to have another chance at making the ending that would best cap off the game
Something that I find very odd for the Sonic Gens remaster is that the Drop Dash is a skill for Classic Sonic (but it's equipped by default) while it's baked into the controls of Modern Sonic That may not seem like a big deal but it means that Classic Sonic isn't able to Drop Dash in the challenges while Modern Sonic can which is very weird
I just realized that sonic x shadow generations is basically the sonic version of Bowser's fury, think about it: a rerelease of a well-liked game that doesn't have much change in the base game but has a new story with a game that takes more direct inspiration from more recent games in the series(for Mario it's open-endedness while for sonic it was a better story) and has a black and red villain
I agree with your final point. The time is now with two well received Sonic games to move beyond nostalgia and try something new. However, I'm sure Sega has some reservations given past history but new original levels would be awesome to see
10:10 if Mike Pollock ever retires from VA work , I'd recommend Brian Drummond as a understudy who's Dr Eggman and the chaos Council in sonic prime Netflix USA.
@@richardperaza5083 not relation as Brian is in Canada which is where sonic prime was recorded voice work wise XD Ryan was in California I think at the time of sonic adventure games to heroes , battle etc
34:20 The game acknowledges that shadow hasnt seen some stages and enemies before, when you talk to gerald. He explaines that they might be either from the future, or from another timeline
I just finished the Shadow portion of this game & without spoilers let me just say that this... is the most beautifully written Shadow's been in almost 20 years!!! Seriously, his character in THIS game honestly gives his from Sonic 06 a run for its money and the story is; imho, the best one since SA2. Finally, the moveset for Shadow is hella fun. My only complaints are that I wish it were a bit longer and that there were more levels from other games Shadow's been in to play. Other than that, a solid 9/10
This is hands down a top 5 sonic game of all time, i am happy woth everything we got but i think it would have been cool if we got maybe 1 Shadow the Hedgehog Stage, maybe Gun Fortress or Lava Shelter, and if we got 3 Rival fights maybe being Sonic, Gemerl from Sonic Battle, and Infinite or Radical Train Silver, just so we can kick him in the head again
The Doom Morph definitely had a learning curve to it. One of the White Space challenges around Chaos Island is actually really helpful at forcing you to learn the ins-and-outs of it, and I was able to have more fun in the actual Chaos Island stage because of it.
i feel like there's a REALLY good metanarrative in shadow generations that is truly worth picking apart doing a reintroduction to shadow and his arc is fine, probably necessary, but if sonic team takes this opportunity to truly move forward with the series, provide us with new experiences, environments and imagery without using their past as a crutch, then a game about shadow revisiting his arc from 2005 as a side story _to generations_, a game from 13 years ago which was where this problem started propping itself up to begin with, is going to be absolutely brilliant and serve as a truly worthwhile sendoff to sonic's deeply mixed "meta era"
Ok, finding out they put future levels into Sonic Gen makes me wish that the last level would be a completely original stage that teased a future game.
It's basically a budget saving trick, reuse 2-year-old Chaos Island assets and have Ian Flynn come up with a lore-wise explanation. Same thing as Frontiers reusing past level designs. Hopefully with the insane Frontiers & Shadow Generations sales figures, the next game won't need any such excuses.
14:20 Let’s hope that SEGA gives that feature to us in a future update. This game honestly needs a dlc roadmap. At least when it comes to more quality of life improvements, newly added features and some extra content like skins and possibly even stages for Shadow Generations.
DLCs could fix the biggest problem of the game; which being the game being so short... There are no rival fights and equipable skills to change the gameplay even more. I miss these features, ngl.
@@lks19 For DLC I would expect one to a pack of levels of the games not represented in either campaign as full levels (CD, Shadow, Lost World, Mania, Superstars) and another for cosmetics or have them released as a large single purchase could also work. I would also love to see the advance, rush, storybook games and sonic 4 (The last one just to see what they'd do)
YES We need more content for the base Generations, it was barely altered. If they really want to go above and beyond, they could do what they did with Frontiers when they added the spindash and improve the physics, specifically for Classic Sonic. Showin already did this over a year ago, so I don’t really see why SEGA can’t.
What you said at the end of the video was so true. Sega have been doing Games based on Nostalgia and returning levels for 13 years now, It’s about time they take what has been so good about both Generations games and Give us a truly original experience.
Sonic/Shadow Generations seems to be exactly what I expected it to be. A remaster of Sonic Generations with some slight tweaks alongside Shadow the Hedgehog 2: Revenge of the Mid-2000s The rewrites to Generations seemed unnecessary, especially when they didn't do as much of that for Colors. Makes the cutscenes a bit awkward but at least the game is intact. Shadow looks like a blast and I'm looking forward to it after I finish the Sonic campaign.
Yeah instead of a frontiers level we should’ve gotten a sonic battle level which would be far more impressive to turn a 2-D fighting game environment into a 3-D boost environment.
Given that Battle’s stages were mostly not-so-big indoor environments it doesn’t give many options realistically speaking. And the ones that weren’t have something similar enough to almost all of them.
One thing I wish you brought up were the NPC dialogue conversations. Omega and Big especially were so much fun to read while still keeping them in character
I don't mind Ian's references in this game since its Generations. A game about the past so of course they're gonna talk about the past. It fits here. I also like they have Sonic talk to his friends now instead of just standing there awkwardly. I don't think that change was made cause Sonic didn't like them. He smiled and gave them a thumbs up. I think cause it was awkward before. Shame you didn't like Frontiers changing the ending, I thought it was a great idea I want to watch this channel more but I always keep disagreeing. Sorry if thats rude but it feels good to agree with people. But I suppose thats my problem, not yours. I do agree with some things. Like Gens is great and that Lost World and Forces suck
Imo the problem is the "references" don't feel natural. It's too frequent and too forced. Under Flynn, Sonic sees a sandbox and kiddie pool at the playground and is like "WoW thIs PlAce ReMinDs Me oF Seaside Hill"
Fr Ian Flynn has done more good than anything to the sonic franchise as a whole. People gotta realize that the limitations aren't up to him. If it was up to him he would have had the cutscenes completely redone so that it makes more sense while still allowing a legacy mode as well. Its really the higher up executives that put so much restriction in the name of profits. I dont understand why people dont like Ian Flynn. Im not saying that every single thing he has ever done regarding sonic was good but the majority of his work and contributions are good and far better than pre-Ian Flynn era
This might be me on my honeymoon phase speaking (And disagree with me all you want) but Shadow Generations might be in my top 3 if not top 5 Sonic games of all time. This game really shows that Sonic Team has the potential to make a really amazing game.
For the record, J's actually plan to upload this video in November early on, so the fact he just start working on the video after having beating the game told you that this game was a special case
My brother and I were literally sweating in my room staring at the pre order option for this game for weeks before I got home one day and saw he finally gave in. I'm so disillusioned with preorders in general now, but especially from Sega, I have been given zero reason to think they will release a good product on launch. Cut to a few days ago, when we finally got to play it, and we spent a few hours on Generations noting the new dialogue and changes to the physics/graphics. Wasn't much to say besides either the game has aged a bit poorly or the remaster wasn't perfect, either thing I had expected. But when we got to Shadow's campaign the next day, I was in a state of pure bliss nearly the whole way through. The levels were so incredible, it was such a grand display of scale to have them directly compared to the comparstively smaller stages in Generations. Shadow's levels feel like massive open spaces, where Generations' mostly feel like different hallways (still good levels, but comparatively cramped). It was so refreshing to not only see Shadow's character well-understood and fleshed out, but even given the chance to feel real emotions, which at times it feels like no character in this series is allowed to do after Elise's outburst at the end of 06 made people think she actually wanted the world to end over a little blue guy. We wrapped it up last night, and safe to say this has become a new favorite in this series, entirely for what Shadow brings to the table.
To give some credit to the Doom Morph, it definitely takes the longest to understand compared to the other Doom Powers. It took me a bit to get a feel for it, but here’s how a friend of mine described it: imagine Shadow as a sling shot. The first fling when you transform will always launch you and transform. Afterwards, imagine the line connect Shadow as the slingshot. Letting go of the button will launch Shadow in that trajectory. So if Shadow is at an 180 degree angle, he will be launched up. Sorry if this isn’t the best explanation, but once you get a feel for the Doom Morph, it’s actually pretty fun.
It reminds me of what some ppl said about Mania having reused levels instead of having all new levels. Shadow The Edgehog did. Sonic Heroes did it. Even spin-offs like Advanced, Rush and Riders very often gave you new levels. Sega should make that, this sort of improved gameplay, and multiple playable characters as the standard for Sonics games moving forward. It's cool that this was pretty much a bundle but Lord knows I'd rather this was Shadow The Edgehog 2, especially when nothing new was added to the base game
What I COULD think about the rewritten plot in the remaster is that newbies to the series would be more interested into the lore like they asking themselves "What are the Time Stones" and proceed to look up for them to find out
I will say, I was not a fan of Mephiles’ new voice, no disrespect to the new VA, but he just sounded like some dude, he didn’t have the menace & sinister vibes Dan Green gave the character in 06. Also the dialogue in that boss fight is interesting, since it implies that he’s in the Void trying to get back into the timeline, I think that’s a set up for his inevitable return in a future game.
Unless it's just him without Iblis I doubt he'll ever return in a new adventure. Solaris is too op. The stakes couldn't get any higher than all of existence being erased at all points in time. Them beating Solaris is the most plot armor I've ever seen ever, they just lucked out that the only things yet to be erased was them, the platform they stood on, and the chaos emeralds, everything they apparently needed.
@@jelloistasty It would be just him, Iblis doesn’t exist, so Mephiles can’t become Solaris, so what does he do now? Plus it’d be a great excuse to have Sonic Shadow & Silver all playable in a same game again.
@SmashBrosAssemble Mephiles and Iblis equally don't exist. They both spawned from the flame Elise blew out. If there's a path for Mephiles to return, then there should be a path for Iblis.
@@jelloistasty I was gonna say that if he returned, getting a way to make Iblis come back too would be the big plot, but then I realized "wait, that's literally just 06 again lmao"
My favourite feature is that you can turn the doom wings on or off, and they have separate rankings. Trying to get an S rank in radical city without the doom wings was very challenging, since the level is built around that ability, but satifying when i finally did it
I can’t say how happy I am that my favorite content creator that got me into sonic enjoyed the new game and thought it was good and I did too. I enjoyed frontiers, but I don’t know something just always wrong when I play that game and I’ve never been able to put my finger on it, but this game doesn’t have that it’s just amazing and I’m so happy to see almost everyone so excited and loving this and I hope they learn the right lessons
Fun small fact Theres a dialogue with Gerald that mentions the how Shadow doesn’t know some of the locations, and so gerald explains that in white space the future and past are no different, and you’re just as likely to see the future as you are the past
If the next Sonic game would be excellent (and have Shadow as being in-character), as well as the third movie be a succes ... would a Shadow 2 game have a chance of happening?
My problem with the rewrite changes are generations is supposed to take place before all these other games where the personality changes happened they really didn’t need to redub anything and some
A couple of problems with this video, like when you said shadow says nothing about chaos island and sunset heights is wrong, if you talk to Gerald after playing those levels he actually talks about shadow visiting places he doesn't recognize so he must be seeing the future and the past But what actually made me a little mad was Amy She hasn't been relegated to just one of sonics friends, she still likes sonic but it's not her entire personality anymore You never mentioned the new scene where Amy is trying to show sonic pink and blue cupcakes she made for them, while sonic is talking to other people and is completely oblivious of Amy, which perfectly sums up how they want Amy's relationship with sonic to be Amy still likes sonic but she's not trying to beat him into submission so he'll marry him anymore (cough cough heroes) while sonic is completely oblivious to Amy, whereas in the original, Amy tried to flirt with sonic and sonic just pushed her away, because back then Amy loving sonic was her whole personality and sonic wasn't oblivious to it, he was just completely against it and it kinda made sonic feel abusive towards Amy in those earlier days I think Amy was written much better in this game and the new direction theyre taking her relationship with sonic works a lot better than any just constantly being a simp
I’m so hyped not only for Shadow Generations, but also for how pleased people are about this game across the board. It’s great to see so many fans, critics, and casuals on the same page for the most part. J being really happy with this game is a pleasant bonus. ^^
Dude thank you so much for making me feel like a sane sonic fan. Your videos are thought out, well written, it’s clear you take the time to edit and retake if needed. You provide helpful and well thought out rational analysis and share your opinions in an entertaining way. Your videos are accessible without coming across like you or we viewers are dumb. So glad to see Sonic team making something good. It looks like I’ll enjoy it. Thank you for sharing 😊
Nah I think frontiers and shadow x are written way better than anything happy tree friends writers wrote post unleashed . The happy tree friends ppl didn’t even know what sonic was when they were hired.
37:50 i completely agree with you. The marketing for this game was so exhausting, since we got flodded with trailers showing every single detail for this game already 3-4 months before release. Sega should maybe learn a bit from Nintendo here, who normaly make these kind of trailers 1-2 weeks before release, which to me is early enough.
Radical Highway was my main complaint, because Black Doom seems obssessed with it for like...no reason? If they really needed to reuse the city assets, then why not Westopolis? Black Doom is proud of it as it's his "greatest victory" of taking over the city (or not depending on what canonically happened I guess). Black Comet makes more sense, but Westopolis works if they can't make many new assets.
Radical Highway was where Shadow's vengeance against humanity was at its peak, as well as where it all began. He allows his anger and grief to enable Gerald's manipulations, making the entire scenario a symbol of his wrath. It's the perfect place to torment him, and Black Doom gave that stage the addition of transforming that it into non-euclidean insanity.
And to be fair, this is Generations, a game entirely about referencing older games. It's insane to me that callbacks are considered "out of place" in the game solely about callbacks.
@@yoursonisold8743 if anything, i'm shocked the dialogue wasn't reference-happy to begin with when, like you said, this is "Sonic References: The Game"
@yoursonisold8743 In a way that makes the game more frustrating, because they could have just made a new game with the full confidence of it being original, yet they choose to remaster a game all about the very thing they have been doing since. The ONLY thing they've been doing. Remaking and recycling older levels. It's still frustrating that we are still nowhere near moving on from the past despite it being so damn long since the last original title (Colora)
@@stormcutter59 I really don't care. This game is good and brings new people up to speed. Also what? Colors is the last original game to you? lol You can make a inane stink about reusing level assets or whatever you want, but Lost World, Forces, Frontiers and Dream Team are all original games, with unique level design and plots. And even this Generations remaster has an entirely new campaign with a new plot and new levels. How far up your own bum are you to claim these games aren't their own thing just because they reference things?
Fun fact professor Gerald actually does say something about the stages that Shadow goes through and his fight with Mephiles. Its sadly optional dialog so Im not surprised many haven't read it.
I'm not kidding when I say this is the greatest Sonic game since Sonic Adventure. I had a lot of fun with Frontiers, but it had a ton of issues. So I didn't think we'd be getting one of the best Sonic games ever, this soon after it.
Lets hope this time we get some DLC. Grand Metropolis (Hero's) Final Fortress (Hero's) Wave Ocean (06) Starlight Carnival (Colours) Cryptic Castle (Shadow) Night Palace (Secret Rings) Studiopolis (Mania) They could easily port the Unleashed act 1 stages. Modders did lt. Haven't played Sonic Forces or Black Knight
You know your game is FANTASTIC when you prefer it to playing the fan favorite boost game it's attached to (by fans at least unleashed still tops gens for me and is easily my favorite sonic game)
Happy to hear you are enjoying it too bad Unleashed is still objectively better and claiming that everyone somehow "prefers" playing this one instead of the most challenging and better designed Unleashed is cap on its finest form.
Great review, and yes I agree with that we should be done with the nostalgia levels. New stages, locations and a brand new *interesting* story. Personally I really liked the fact that chaos island was in the game, I do agree that it didn't make sense in retrospect.
39:44 fun fact Stephanie Sheh plays maria , also Hinata in Naruto Shippuden, sailor moon in sailor moon Viz, eternal cosmos movies on Netflix. Loved her performance tbh
This and Pariah's review are like night and day, it's funny. Me personally I'm less concerned about my personal enjoyment of the recent Sonic titles and more happy that the overall franchise is making this many people happy. Even if I don't personal agree with something, I'm glad that the directions the franchise is taking works for so many other people. In the end, I only want as many people as possible to enjoy their money's worth.
That's exactly what I was saying. Why couldn't we get a Black Comet level for Black Doom. I get that it would take time, but c'mon, Shadow the Hedgehog (2005) deserves representation here. You already got the main villain, why not the level? I'm not a fan of rewrites, but if they pull a Sonic Frontiers-like content map with Sonic X Shadow Generations, Black Comet would be a level I'd want to see. You could even add it in as an extra story, and we see Black Bull make an appearance. It seems that Sonic Team is interested in redeeming Sonic 06 with redesigning the levels. Why not 2005 Shadow the Hedgehog as well. It just feels so weird that Shadow's own game doesn't have level representation, but Sonic Frontiers does. Again, I hope they do a content road map like with Frontiers and we get something like that in the future.
41:22 At the end of Shadow 05 Shadow remembers what happened in the ark and he can't deal with all his feelings and decides to cut all his ties with the ark, first by killing Black Doom and second by abandoning all his memories with Maria and Gerald and never acknowledge it, and now in Shadow Generation he is forced to deal with sorrow instead of just ignoring it and at the end of the game he sheds a single tear of grief
Man, it's great to see almost everyone really liking this game, including myself. Frontiers was just meh. Damn Sonic x Shadow Generations really made me happy.
I loved this game. But as you said, I am hoping that, much like Shadow learning to move on from his past (again lol), the series takes this meta opportunity to also move forward and leave the past behind it, onto.. New... Horizons... (This comment was not written by Ian Flynn, I promise)
Funny enough, Shadow the Hedgehog 2005 was released in the same year I was born in. So while I do get the hate for that game, it was the one game that had a place in my heart for almost a decade, as that was my first Sonic game.
great video, one thing though that i think might help you with your playthrough with chaos island, I also didn't know how to control the doom morph, but if you swing with doom morph and let go of the button when you are at the bottom of the swing, you will go vertically up and it honestly makes it one of my favorite levels, hope that helps
Interesting how the last unanimously praised mainline Sonic game was Sonic Generations in 2011, now in 2024 it’s Shadow Generations bundled with Sonic Generations.. 🤔 Frontiers was praised, however many people did have issues with it.
tbf they basically refining the type of gameplay that already exist. both games have same gameplay from previous games, like modern sonic gens gameplay took from sonic unleashed while shadow took from frontiers refining it.
Nice to know that this game turned out to be more than well. I mean, when you got someone who's on the harder side of pleasing like J, then you've done something right. SEGA, you guys been a roll for the last few years with Sonic. Please don't stop.
Okay, for real, Amy still loves Sonic. That's obvious in Frontiers. And you know, you ignore something. Amy in the rewrite asks Classic Sonic if he is cute. So she obviously still loves him. It's just rewritten to be a little less annoying. Like her trying to assasult Sonic and him blocking her face casually. I really really don't like when people spread misinformation.
Not only that but what they replaced that scene with was Amy holding Pink and Blue cupcakes trying to give them to Sonic.... Pink and Blue.... As in Amy and Sonic. Seriously this narrative that Amy is not interested in Sonic is such BS, all they did was make Amy less overtly fanatical with her love for Sonic and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that
There's also an optional line from Rouge in Shadow's story where Rouge tells Shadow how important he is to her and then she laughs at herself for "sounding like Amy".
It shouldn't be "rewritten to be less annoying." Amy is Amy. Have a problem with her character, a brand new one female character should be made. But by changing Amy so significantly, her original fans will be upset. Same as 4Kids changing anime so characters would be more "appropriate." Dont change what already exists. We have no option to even play the original generations
Shadow *does* ask Gerald about why he is seeing stages he has never been to (Chaos island and Kingdom Valley) then the professor mentions it could be pulling places from the future, and you could say that the reason chaos island appears is because it is resonating with the chaos emerald shadow is carrying/maybe frontiers dlc with shadow? Also you could say the final stage choice makes sense since shadow is "facing his past and returning to the beginning aka his very first level, the place he first started down his path of vengeance and anger, doom may be trying to get those dark emotions out of shadow.
38:38 having emotional stakes is totally a selling point for a good story. Considering that SHADOW is the second most popular sonic character and what made him famous was his Emotional story and his final sacrifice.
The reason the complete shift from Generations into Lost World happened is because back then, Sega had a contract with Nintendo to ship like 5 or so games on their consoles, starting with Sonic and the Secret Rings, hence why that transition to most people seems super strange. Lost World was just a continuation of that trend that ended with the Sonic Boom games. I don't think we have to worry about a complete genre shift happening again, just the regular ole fear of whether or not the next game coming out just sucks (in the Sonic Forces sense).
That's literally what it should've been in the first place. I was legit expecting it to happen at the end but sadly not. Would also have loved to hear some of the other lost tracks like Broken and All Of Me from Sins of a Divine Mother for that peak 00's edge that kinda comes with Shadow's design and legacy
Sonic Generations is pretty underdone here, especially considering how polished Shadow Generations is. Then you look at the control inconsistencies between the two [you can use the dpad in 2D in Sonic Gens but not in Shadow Gens, you can use the L and R buttons to switch rails in Shadow Gens but not Sonic Gens] AND how Sonic Gens still has that crashing problem with the online ranking mode, and it's very clear to me that when you buy this game, you're buying Shadow Generations with a weird slightly-edited port of Sonic Generations as a bonus game stapled to it.
It's definitely weird because I think the other VAs have improved over the years, but Mike keeps sounding more and more like you said. Maybe J is right, he's getting old...
12:52 I mean, they aren't wrong. You gotta admit that the idea of change needs some limitations. They may say it's to create consistency, but we all know that's not the true motive here.
I mean they aren't really right or wrong in my eyes... its just meaningless. These changes really don't affect anything in particular. They are all very neutral changes.
@@productionsinparadise2880 Now to your credit I do kinda wish there was a toggle for the dialouge. Mostly for the same reason and J has in the video. Art preservation is a good thing... But the main issue i have is the person who made the tweet very specifically is raising culture war topics. It mainly comes across like they only care about culture war stuff rather than having a principled stance on the matter.
@@TheUltimateMachineGod of course, that's understandable. But when you think about it, big companies make changes to keep certain people at bay when in reality there was nothing wrong with anything in the first place and the change(s) overcomplicates things long term (distructures what we've come to love and that includes forms of censorship).
Your issue with the air boost is easily remedied by chaos spear. You can extend your air-time from both boosting off of ramps and air boosting by throwing out chaos spears since that makes your momentum carry for longer (this also allows you to make some insane jumps in certain levels like kingdom valley).
About the Amy thing, They absolutely are NOT moving in a more "platonic" direction with them at all. Sonic outright implies he's into Amy IN Frontiers and the comics (both written by Ian Flynn). If anything, they made AmyxSonic reciprocal.
I'm so hyped to hear the levels (hub world included) are really fun because I really missed the bigger 3D segments without a ton of speed pads. The 2D segments can be good too but I really hope they can keep working on making 3D segments fun. There's still room for more 3D platformers with fast and free movement so I hope Sonic (and Shadow) can keep delivering on this. There's more indie games like that too now but I can't help but ask for more of it because of how common 3D action platformers were at one point in time.
Sunset Heights is a WILD inclusion the more that you think about it:
It's a game in the remake of Sonic Generations, using Sonic Frotiers physics, in the setting of Sonic Forces, borrowing the plot of Shadow the Hedgehog, running on the gameplay model of Sonic Unleashed. There are so many layers going on here.
with ALLLLL of that added onto each other, this shouldnt have worked, but somehow, it just did
They took basically all the good parts from their best games. I’m very happy they moved away from the “let’s scrap everything for something”
It's criminal Justice (the Avatar's music) didn't get a remix for Sunset Heights.
Now that you put it that way, they could've EASILY screwed up this game.
I'm sorry but this gameplay model is really not like Sonic Unleashed, the way you control and the level design isn't really like it in my opinion. Shadow just feels so tight to play/control
Modern Knuckles: “Where’s the rest of my island?”
Classic Sonic: _rubs his tummy_
Clearly, this suggests that Classic Sonic ate the rest of Modern Knuckles’s island.
His appetite is insatiable
@
Spiky, blue Kirby.
"we outta angel islands"
Hahaha 😂
I guess the chilidogs just weren't cutting it anymore.
God PLEASE let this momentum keep going and not trip over and fall for another decade like Generations to Lost World
Sonic goes to a mcdonalds
Agree
I hope that the dev team actually takes to heart the lessons actually taught in Shadow Generations, you can look over what happened with the past fondly, but in the end, you have to leave the past behind and move on to new things
I'ma be completely honest, forces wasn't unintentionally bad,
Sonic team had as long as they needed to make it yet they somehow made the entire game in 1 year
Whereas a game like sonic 06 actually tried to be good but just had issues, Sega forced a deadline on them, and their head programmer left halfway through the games development
You can still tell the game is actually top tier as long as you just fix the bugs
It's like sonic forces didn't even try
You're so right I remember I gave up on the series back in 2013 and that was before Boom so Lost World really did kill the momentum especially for me.
I strongly disagree with the idea that Radical Highway shouldn't have been where it was used.
The first time Shadow went through Radical Highway, he went through it holding Maria's wish in his heart, "Revenge".
Now, he is going through it with Maria's true wish, to make everyone happy, and quite literally flying through it.
That's a great way to look at it. That's something I hadn't thought about and this interpretation just shot my enjoyment of Gens Radical Highway up high
I agree but I recently played shadow 05 to get a feel of what shadow might be (I guess) before this game and it was surprising that no stages are from 05 , like seriously westopolies is the perfect stage to bring back along with the black comet (westoplies is like city stage I know but for how much you have to replay it to end all the endings in the game , it's infamous)
that's a cute lore-related way to look at it, but that doesn't really change the fact that it's a stage that gets reused 5(!!) times in one game while shadow '05 didn't get _any_ representation beyond subtle level design callbacks like the beginning of radical highway act 2
@bucket9486 I mean... the main villian is literally from Shad05 and the final boss is from Shad05 minus the second phase, it definitely got representation past Easter Eggs
To not include any stages from shadow the hedgehog 05 is insane. This game was clearly rushed and hardly stands on its own.
Shadow did actually have something to say about chaos island and Sunset Heights but it’s tucked away in a text only dialogue with Gerald when he responds to shadow saying “oh so you’ve seen places you don’t recognize? then perhaps you’re seeing the future as well as the past.”
Imagine this means shadow will be in the next game
@@uneedrambo716 Frontiers 2 probably won't feature the Starfall Islands
@@uneedrambo716no since this shadow is the shadow during sonic generations
Yeah I was surprised J didn't bring that up. I suppose a lot of people miss all the optional dialogue, because you have to talk to all the characters after each major stage and talk to them three times in a row to see it all.
@@yoursonisold8743 yeah that dialog should be more easily accessible like give us a notification on screen saying X character has new thing to say. And for them to be voice acted cuz like cmon surely they can afford it.
There is actually quite an important bit of new lore about Black Doom.
Black Doom is a *parasite* and the Black Arms are effectively a hive mind. Black Doom survived using the Black Leech used to create Shadow that was still alive aboard the ARK [and it's this that Shadow sensed at the start of the game so went to the ARK]; as Black Doom can essencially transfer himself to other Black Arms when he dies, but it took a while for that leech to basically grow into Doom again.
Doom's plan the entire time was to take over Shadow to become even more powerful. But Shadow has something no other Black Arms has; Free Will, and was able to deny Black Doom and fight him off.
Although this does raise questions to to why the Black Arms attack Shadow even when he's helping Black Doom in StH... if they are literally a hive mind with Doom. But I guess that's somewhat explained by Doom wanting Shadow to reach his full potential before taking him over to maximise Doom's future power.
The real reason is of course that making the grunt NPCs sense whether you're fighting for or against them at a given time could lead to too many exploits of getting by combat areas with no difficulty. Not wanting or not having the time to rethink mission designs for the alignment system.
The best rewrite in the game IMO is Shadow saying “On your feet.” Just sounds a lot more in character and badass, granted the story is kind of ass anyways, but it’s a nice touch
I'mma be honest that line is just like the original one, it doesn't change anything for that i would prefer it if they put the japanese one where he says "show me what you're made of"
@@jersont.3339LMAO, you know people would complain if they went with that
@@jersont.3339 But then people would complain about Ian Flynn making references where they 'don't belong'.
Either way people are going to complain. At least the rewrite we got for that line kept the meaning of the original ("I know you can do this") while sounding a little less silly.
@@jersont.3339 you also have to consider writing for the lip flap animations as well, so unfortunately i don't think that could fit without reanimating and re-timing the cutscene and score completely.
@@jersont.3339 ew no thats so cringe
You clearly missed the point of the story in both Shadow the Hedgehog and Shadow Generations.
Shadow's character arc in Shadow the Hedgehog was about trying to figure out WHO he is and what path he should follow. Keep in mind he still has amnesia through most of the story, and only at the end does he come to terms with his identity and his past. However despite realizing who he is, he knows there isn't anything he can really do with that information, so he elects to move foward and save the world because he believes thats what Maria would have wanted. The end cutscene where shadow leaves behind the picture wasn't him getting closure, it was him just acknowledging that there is nothing left for him to do and moving on with his life.
Meanwhile in Shadow Generations, Shadow's character arc is different, NOW it's actually about getting closure. He is literally presented with the chance to change the timeline and save Maria and Gerald from their grim fates. This time he CAN actually do something, hence why he's so emotionally vulnerable this time around. You can literally see it in his body language. At the end when Gerald and Maria are vanishing back to their time, Shadow could have easily told Maria and Gerald about their looming deaths and how G.U.N was going to betray them, why didn't he? Because even if he did it wouldn't change anything. The Maria in his timeline will still be gone, and he will still have to live with the grief. Maria did however give Shadow something he badly needed all the way back at the end of Shadow the Hedgehog and on the day Maria died. She told Shadow even if fate draws them apart, she will always be in his heart. That's the point of his arc, instead of trying to bury his past and trauma like in Shadow the Hedgehog, this time he learns that he CAN still hold onto the good memories he had with Maria, instead of trying to avoid it.
In a way one might even say Shadow did save Maria at the end, because now she lives in his heart instead of being forgotten or ignored. That's what makes this story so beautiful.
he's a pretentious freak who only complains about the series at every second, he's literally part of the reason Sega and sonic team keep fucking up sonic cause fans like him are indecisive idiots
Yeah, something that I found was a stroke of subtle genius is when, after Shadow saves Maria and Gerald in Generations, he immediately says to himself that "they must be from a time before the raid on the Ark", and doesn't go through some heavily emotional scene of reuniting with them. He's already accepted their fates and was already in the process of moving on. Being in the white space with them just gives him a more tangible opportunity.
He got closure in his own game. Shadow Gens was just a character reset.
@@pikachufrankie I don't think we played the same game.
idk i think Shadow 05 already does this? like sure it's not literally stated and shown, but Shadow moving on from his past doesn't mean he like neglected Maria, if he did that he wouldn't keep protecting the world she loved so much imo.
i get your point tho, it can seem Shadow 05 tries to make Shadow leave things behind once and for all and make him move on and be himself, but i think it also makes what Shadow gens tells just not that much directly told
Did anyone in this comments section make the joke about how Classic Sonic ate Angel Island when Knuckles asked where it is yet?
LMAO
It gets funnier the more times I read it
I genuinely thought that was the joke they tried going with
I mean they changed the first cutscene and all of modern Sonic's to include his dialogue. They could have changed his animation for something else but probably thought the implication was too funny.
Yes
I just hope this reminds Sonic Team that Sonic is better with an action focus. Sure, they shouldn’t be strictly linear, room for exploration is great and even a key ingredient, but I’ll always take tight controls and engaging set pieces over trying to emulate the open world without the radical changes needed to make that work with Sonic.
The original idea for open world Sonic was a fast-paced beat them up.
One thing I will say about the rewrite is that I think it's more about continuity. Even in 2011 I remember people saying it felt like a stretch to have Sonic and Tails not even recognize Green Hill and Chemical Plant, but especially now that they've leaned so hard into callbacks that Sonic seems to go back there every other day, it just stands out even more. Especially now that Sonic Team is trying to get their worldbuilding much more consistent, I could imagine that being the deciding factor.
Yeah, but altering characterization flies in the face of continuity. Especially since one of my favorite character arcs in Frontiers acknowledged how a certain character was depicted for the last few games.
Omg, someone is talking about this! It always weirded me out even as a kid that Sonic and tails just acted like they had never been to chemical plant in that cutscene! It felt weird that the game about celebrating the series past just gave everyone amnesia for some reason .
They failed to update the lip sync, and neutered Rouge even more than before.
22:25 To be fair, the delay in the homing attack actually serves a real purpose here. Shadow uses the chaos snap from Sonic 06 when homing attacking enemies, which means he teleports directly to them and can bypass obstacles in the way. This would be REALLY disorienting if it happened instantly, though, which was the case in 06. The slight delay helps the player keep track of where Shadow is going and time their inputs appropriately.
What they could've done instead is have a delay on the first homing attack, but, say, if there are 3 enemies directly in a row, you immediately snap to the 2nd and 3rd enemies.
Such a solution would've helped significantly with fluidity, I feel like.
P-06 proves you can have the instant snap and not make it too disorienting. Instead of the camera snapping onto you, it tracks you, follows you as it lags behind slightly. Helps alot with not being disorienting.
Frontiers is one of my favorite Sonic games, it was a shame to me that you were not a fan of the game but I understood your criticisms even if I don't agree with most of them, but seeing you liking a 3D Sonic game after so long makes me happy. Your Sonic videos were building up to this game. We are getting one step closer to that One Way Dream.
Edit: I never said Frontiers was the best Sonic game ever made, I only said it's one of my favorite (favorite ≠ best). I know it has problems, but I love it either way.
Frontiers and Shadow Generations have been pretty good, glad we got some great Sonic games after a lot of disappointing ones.
Frontiers is the Sonic game with my favorite boss fights in the franchise, and I've been with the Hedgehog since 1991. Having four Perfect Chaos tier boss battles was incredible.
It's just a shame that the rest of the game leaps back and forth between 2/5 and 4/5 in terms of content. With more time in the oven, a second Frontiers style game may very well be the best 3D Sonic game that Sonic Team ever makes, or at the very least capable of standing alongside Adventure 1 and 2, Unleashed, and Generations with no caveats.
Could I ask you why you think frontiers is one of your favorites?
I didn’t care for Frontiers at all but I LOVED Sonic X Shadow Generations. I hope future games keep the momentum Gens brought us
@@abaddon5420 It has the best Super Sonic fights in ANY Sonic game, the characters are well written, the story is well written and it expands the lore in a really good way, it's so fun to play even if it needed more polished, Sage is one the best characters in the franchise since Shadow, we get playable characters after 17 years and they are all unique and fun to play.
If you disagree you're valid. This is just how I and many people feel about Frontiers.
38:55 I thought this too, until I realised that half the story is told through the optional npc talks. Big goes fishing with Maria, Shadow talks to Gerald about not recognising Mephilis, Maria's condition actually gets expanded upon, vital information such as "What the fuck is the thing in the sky that the plot revolves around and "how is black doom even alive" are actually explained. Seriously, I think in total there is over 50 unique conversations depending on where you are in the story
@blur7491 And there's the journal.
I think it’s telling that most people are talking about Mephiles in regards to the story, because it doesn’t feel like an exact redo of the Mephiles fight (tho it for sure has elements). It introduces Mephiles with new wants and desires and imples he wants to come back. This isn’t ‘fight Mephiles’, it’s Mephiles has an arc somehow lol. Hopefully rhey understand this direction going forward that you’re allowed reference somethinbf as long as you do something with it
I'm glad we got to see Memphis Tennessee one more time. It's a nice send-off to the character, one last encounter with Shadow and getting to see him get a nice taste of cosmic irony. He was all smug and cunning last time but now he's a scared, angry, wounded animal desperate to escape oblivion, and he gets beaten by a Shadow who barely even acknowledges him. From all the time in the world, to living on literally borrowed time.
@@SandwitchZebra The exact fate he deserves
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this was kind of a teaser for a possible Mephiles comeback with him saying "I want to exist" and whatnot. Tho honestly it's prolly just me coping.
@@Neoniq41 I would prefer if Mephiles never came back, honestly. I love him, but I think his appearance here is a perfect way of closing the book on his character and the legacy of ‘06 in general. Some things from the past simply need to stay in the past, doesn’t mean we have to forget them. That’s kind of the entire message of the game.
Story-wise, that is. I’m still hoping he appears in spin-offs and stuff lol
34:17 If you talk to Gerald after Chaos Island he talks about how Shadow is experiencing worlds and memories of different versions of himself from different timelines
24:48
There are three things you can do with the orbs with Doom Morph. Hold Jump to swing, press Jump to snap to it, and if holding down the swing, if you are directly below the orb and release the jump button then, Shadow would be slingshotted up. My problem with this thing is that its abilities are poorly explained. I still don’t fully understand how the dash ability for the morph works.
Just spam dash while on morph it goes FAST
@@nazurin5982 No, as it would prevent you from taking some shortcuts that require you to slingshot yourself up.
I really dont see why people think theyre trying to make Amy and Sonic platonic friends when Sonic frontiers is one of the only times Sonic expressed feeling for Amy. Its more obvious to me that theyre trying to tone it down and make what they have more grounded than it was im the early 2000s and im here for that.
That’s what I thought as well, and they better keep it that way.
Obsessive Amy is easily one of the franchise’s worst characters.
@elijahechicagobearsboyd5734 I wouldn't go that far. I think that trait of hers was definitely one of the most unlikable things in that era but she absolutely had more to offer when it wasn't the focal point
Nah they’re trying to retcon her being obsessed. It’s so lame. Amy being obsessed is way better than her being a feminist. I’d argue it’s even more cringe.
Bro is talking about sonic the hedgehog like it's anti-men propaganda
@@JackSkellington__trust me bro, as an anti-woke and feminism hater, that isn't the point on the changes to amy. She's a beloved character that had one trait that was annoying and they're trying to fix. I will though be with you on that if they rewrite amy on unleashed since its the best version of her being lovy dovey about sonic (and i fucking love the dialogue where sonic agrees to go on a date with her).
Thank you for that "enough with nostalgia" line. It's what I've been feeling for almost a decade now.
Superstars was a great step towards less nostalgia since all the stages are original, but it's gameplay did not hold up to her classics it was trying to live up to
Omega deserved better; he had NO appearance in the cutscenes and the end (of Shadow Generations) doesn't have him show up alongside Shadow and Rouge.
@@gregzotter6189 same going for big, orbot and cubot.
Amy Should be able to have a crush on Sonic tbh. But instead of making her obsessive, she should be more like a fangirl that wants to keep her cool. She'd gladly jump at any opportunity to be with him, but she's able to pull herself back before it goes too far.
I 100% agree with that
Amy should be what her original character was written to be. If you have an issue with Amy a new character should be "western appropriate*
That's how she is in the IDW comics. She still gawks over Sonic, but her whole character doesn't revolve around him, like it was in Heroes or Adventure. She is still very "girly" and all, she didn't lose that trait, but she's not a one-note character anymore, which I appreciate a lot.
Yup I agree
I see a lot of Amy discussion nowadays acting like she never had a personality outside of liking Sonic before the change, sure that was her thing and it could be ass at times (like that Heroes encounter) but she was still a great part of the gang
Call it an overreaction. But I got a little emotional hearing that the og shadow game is more well liked now. That was my childhood Sonic game so it’s awesome to see it get love even if the games a huge mess lol
I've loved that game for about 18 years (it took a year for it to grow on me).
It didn't there was no shadow 05 level
@Lonelysum The Ark doubles as a Shadow '05 level, and the whole game acts as a sequel to Shadow '05
@ just seems to be a cope out when it’s also a level in adventure 2. I get what you mean I would just still like another stage as an actual tribute to 05
I really appreciate that Sonic Team took their time and make this game feel polished. And yes I have a fun time playing this game, so many paths to take for speed running. Heck this is the first game that I have fun with and it makes me want to do speed run in each levels.
I don't think the voice actors performance is the problem, it's the direction and what they're saying
For people saying Roger isn't great at acting, Batman Arkham Shadow JUST came out where he played Batman again, and he killed it in the performance (positive).
I dont think what they are saying is a problem though. It's really just the direction. And even then only in very few moments.
Yes, the direction took away the silly tone of the original, which I think is not necessary at all.
@@leithaziz2716 To be fair, you can be good at voicing certain characters and not others. Batman is an ultra serious character with a very stoic attitude, Sonic is... the pure opposite, and I'm still not convince by Roger performances on him after multiple games.
Yes writing can be special but good actor performances can sometimes salvage it.
@@ivanbanuelos1387well there wasn't a silly tone but alright
For some reason...reading the journal entries made me feel so bad. Ive never cared about sonic lore that much till this game. I learned almost all of shadows past through this game and combined with the main story, lore entries, and that animated prequel i actually almost teared up.
Overall, I think this game is fantastic and I'm really enjoying it, but my only major issue with it, is there is no ShThH 2005 stage.
I felt like there is 1 missing stage, when game's formula is basically 2 stages + boss.
They should've added something between Chaos Island and Mephiles. Something like Prison Island ,Black Comet or Lava Shelter would've been an amazing addition.
And then Radical Highway as final level
I know i was kind of bummed theres no 2005 levels. Prison Island was rad
Radical Highway act 2 did give me more Westopolis vibes than Radical Highway but a proper Shadow 05 level would have been amazing.
@@flipside2086 I actually really appreciate that both acts of Radical Highway are fully in 3D. And all levels at least 3-5 minutes long. You can't find that long levels in any boost game aside Unleashed.
@@МихаилЛотов-о8э Hell the fact that most of Shadow Generations is in 3D is crazy to think about and when you do play the 2D Act 2 it's just as good. Shadow Gens is absolutely shocking with how good the levels are.
Space colony ark is the shadow stage I'm guessing
If there's one thing I disagree with on the Sonic Gens bit, it's that the Modern Drop Dash doesn't take anything away. If you use the Legacy control style, *it absolutely does* because you'll accidentally keep activating it when confirming a Homing Attack because it's your jump button in the original game. The fact that the Drop Dash is an equippable ability you can turn off for Classic when you'd WANT that to be there all the time and is permanent for Modern Sonic where it actively ruins your flow is baffling, to say the least.
I use legacy controls, and I don't have that problem. You don't need to hold down the jump button when doing an air dash.
41:15 not just "growth isn't linear" but also shadow's experiences are most definitely traumatic. I mean can you imagine falling from space only to be put into stasis for 50 years because the government stormed your home and shot said friend when you were just having a good day? Losing your home and your entire family, and everyone you've ever known to ever exist would do that to you.
and trauma isn't just "over and done with", it sticks with you for the rest of your life, you'll remember it until the day you die, and depending on the coping mechanisms you learn to deal with it, it's possible to relapse into old ways.
When the only real criticism you can make is "I wish there was more of it", you know you've got a real gem.
Add like 2 more stages (not counting the upcoming movie DLC stage) and this game would actually be perfect.
Small size aside, I like the stage roster quite a lot. Good variety. Nice to see Sunset Heights be a real level and Chaos Island was the most visually interesting of the 3 biomes in Frontiers so I'm glad that was the rep. Only wished there wasn't so much Radical highway rep. Black Doom coming in a basically doing a "domain expansion" and transforming the stage into something else is a really cool idea and as as well designed as those segments were, I just wish it was with other stage themes instead of only Radical Highway. Imagine if in Chaos Island, Doom brought in Sky Troops to establish a historical connection between the Black Arms and the Ancients from Frontiers or turned Sunset Heights into Westopolis since they're both war zones. Every stage could've had a parallel StH 05 stage come in. Rail Canyon could turn into Lava Shelter or Kingdom Valley becoming Cryptic Castle. Oh well. What we got is still great.
The proper Radical Highway is a good final stage, probably the 2nd best zone just behind kingdom valley though it feels like we should've brought back one of the Black Comet stages to close things out. Overall, just add like 2 proper StH 05 stages (Black Comet, Digital Circuit, or Lava Shelter would be good picks) and this whole thing would be the goat.
Pretty impressed with White Space as a hub here and I hope this is the general template that we follow for the Frontiers Sequel. Essentially just this but more of it.
Part of me started questioning how they would handle a StH 05 rep when I realized the mechanic of Black Arms serving for the Doom Blast instead of being regular enemies, but your idea of transforming stages into Shadow reps sounds like an amazing compromise.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts
Exactly my complaints, you hit the nail on the head.
I would pick sky troops since it is a perfect stage to the doom wings.
As they didn't limit themselves to levels that relate to shadow, and had they had more development time, we could have had representation for CD (as a full level and not only a boss), Mania, Superstars, Lost world and obviously Shadow the Hedgehog.
People always use Lost World as the comparison to Frontiers with the whole "good base for the future" case with the later; but as someone who was also around at that time, it was definitely a different vibe.
The sentiment with Lost World was more resigned with "Well this is what they want to do now, so I guess we'll see where they go with it," where Frontiers' sentiment was more enthusiastic with "This isn't quite perfect, but what is here is exciting for the future of the series if they iterate on it!"
I disagree with the new frontiers ending making them look insecure, its obvious thats closer to how they really wanted to end the game considering the build up with the titans, the old boss is just the result if them being rushed
14:15 to be fair, even the team wasn’t satisfied with the ending as they didn’t have the time to make it what they wanted. It was there chance to have another chance at making the ending that would best cap off the game
Something that I find very odd for the Sonic Gens remaster is that the Drop Dash is a skill for Classic Sonic (but it's equipped by default) while it's baked into the controls of Modern Sonic
That may not seem like a big deal but it means that Classic Sonic isn't able to Drop Dash in the challenges while Modern Sonic can which is very weird
Yeah, it definitely seems like it should be the other way around.
I just realized that sonic x shadow generations is basically the sonic version of Bowser's fury, think about it: a rerelease of a well-liked game that doesn't have much change in the base game but has a new story with a game that takes more direct inspiration from more recent games in the series(for Mario it's open-endedness while for sonic it was a better story) and has a black and red villain
@@jaretco6423 yeah and luckily it was not new super Mario bros U(I don't like the rerelease, infact the original WII U version is better)
Nah much different, horrible example used, horrible comparison, complete remaster of one game plus one new game. So much crammed in, unreal!!!
People have been making this comparison since its announcement.
So much means completing everything within 20 hours?@@Super-A.I
@@DBTHEPLUG Yes
I agree with your final point. The time is now with two well received Sonic games to move beyond nostalgia and try something new. However, I'm sure Sega has some reservations given past history but new original levels would be awesome to see
10:10 if Mike Pollock ever retires from VA work , I'd recommend Brian Drummond as a understudy who's Dr Eggman and the chaos Council in sonic prime Netflix USA.
I always find it funny that Ryan Drummond was a voice actor for Sonic and Sega happened to find a guy named Brian Drummond to voice Eggman
@@richardperaza5083 not relation as Brian is in Canada which is where sonic prime was recorded voice work wise XD Ryan was in California I think at the time of sonic adventure games to heroes , battle etc
@@gundambassexe31 I know they’re not related I just find it funny
34:20 The game acknowledges that shadow hasnt seen some stages and enemies before, when you talk to gerald. He explaines that they might be either from the future, or from another timeline
Ian Flynn: The master of coming up with lore reasons for budget limitations
@Onaterdem truueee XD
48:41 "It's time for some new stuff" This game was incredible, but I couldn't agree more.
I just finished the Shadow portion of this game & without spoilers let me just say that this... is the most beautifully written Shadow's been in almost 20 years!!! Seriously, his character in THIS game honestly gives his from Sonic 06 a run for its money and the story is; imho, the best one since SA2. Finally, the moveset for Shadow is hella fun. My only complaints are that I wish it were a bit longer and that there were more levels from other games Shadow's been in to play. Other than that, a solid 9/10
Basically it what Shadow the Hedgehog wish it was.
This is hands down a top 5 sonic game of all time, i am happy woth everything we got but i think it would have been cool if we got maybe 1 Shadow the Hedgehog Stage, maybe Gun Fortress or Lava Shelter, and if we got 3 Rival fights maybe being Sonic, Gemerl from Sonic Battle, and Infinite or Radical Train Silver, just so we can kick him in the head again
The Doom Morph definitely had a learning curve to it. One of the White Space challenges around Chaos Island is actually really helpful at forcing you to learn the ins-and-outs of it, and I was able to have more fun in the actual Chaos Island stage because of it.
i feel like there's a REALLY good metanarrative in shadow generations that is truly worth picking apart
doing a reintroduction to shadow and his arc is fine, probably necessary, but if sonic team takes this opportunity to truly move forward with the series, provide us with new experiences, environments and imagery without using their past as a crutch, then a game about shadow revisiting his arc from 2005 as a side story _to generations_, a game from 13 years ago which was where this problem started propping itself up to begin with, is going to be absolutely brilliant and serve as a truly worthwhile sendoff to sonic's deeply mixed "meta era"
Ok, finding out they put future levels into Sonic Gen makes me wish that the last level would be a completely original stage that teased a future game.
It's basically a budget saving trick, reuse 2-year-old Chaos Island assets and have Ian Flynn come up with a lore-wise explanation. Same thing as Frontiers reusing past level designs.
Hopefully with the insane Frontiers & Shadow Generations sales figures, the next game won't need any such excuses.
14:20 Let’s hope that SEGA gives that feature to us in a future update. This game honestly needs a dlc roadmap. At least when it comes to more quality of life improvements, newly added features and some extra content like skins and possibly even stages for Shadow Generations.
DLCs could fix the biggest problem of the game; which being the game being so short... There are no rival fights and equipable skills to change the gameplay even more. I miss these features, ngl.
@@lks19 For DLC I would expect one to a pack of levels of the games not represented in either campaign as full levels (CD, Shadow, Lost World, Mania, Superstars) and another for cosmetics or have them released as a large single purchase could also work.
I would also love to see the advance, rush, storybook games and sonic 4 (The last one just to see what they'd do)
YES
We need more content for the base Generations, it was barely altered. If they really want to go above and beyond, they could do what they did with Frontiers when they added the spindash and improve the physics, specifically for Classic Sonic. Showin already did this over a year ago, so I don’t really see why SEGA can’t.
@@evandaengonzalezordonez3559 Base Gens is probably unlikely to get dlc because it's running on an engine they no longer develop for.
Would be cool to get more levels from future games, a lost world or mania level would be cool I think
What you said at the end of the video was so true. Sega have been doing Games based on Nostalgia and returning levels for 13 years now, It’s about time they take what has been so good about both Generations games and Give us a truly original experience.
Sonic/Shadow Generations seems to be exactly what I expected it to be.
A remaster of Sonic Generations with some slight tweaks alongside Shadow the Hedgehog 2: Revenge of the Mid-2000s
The rewrites to Generations seemed unnecessary, especially when they didn't do as much of that for Colors. Makes the cutscenes a bit awkward but at least the game is intact.
Shadow looks like a blast and I'm looking forward to it after I finish the Sonic campaign.
You maniac why start with Sonic Generations?
@@Animefan-uk8pw Because I haven't played the game in 2 years
Yeah instead of a frontiers level we should’ve gotten a sonic battle level which would be far more impressive to turn a 2-D fighting game environment into a 3-D boost environment.
Given that Battle’s stages were mostly not-so-big indoor environments it doesn’t give many options realistically speaking.
And the ones that weren’t have something similar enough to almost all of them.
One thing I wish you brought up were the NPC dialogue conversations. Omega and Big especially were so much fun to read while still keeping them in character
I don't mind Ian's references in this game since its Generations. A game about the past so of course they're gonna talk about the past. It fits here. I also like they have Sonic talk to his friends now instead of just standing there awkwardly. I don't think that change was made cause Sonic didn't like them. He smiled and gave them a thumbs up. I think cause it was awkward before. Shame you didn't like Frontiers changing the ending, I thought it was a great idea
I want to watch this channel more but I always keep disagreeing. Sorry if thats rude but it feels good to agree with people. But I suppose thats my problem, not yours. I do agree with some things. Like Gens is great and that Lost World and Forces suck
Imo the problem is the "references" don't feel natural. It's too frequent and too forced. Under Flynn, Sonic sees a sandbox and kiddie pool at the playground and is like "WoW thIs PlAce ReMinDs Me oF Seaside Hill"
@@PalmtreeManic I'm fine with it. The past games never did it all so I'm glad they are now
@@PalmtreeManicthe Japanese script also references. Funny you ignore that. Sega Japan also goes under the "everything is canon" and emphasizes
@@PalmtreeManic I'd rather a writer who loves Sonic lore over a writer who has no clue about any of it or, worse, someone who despises all of it.
Fr Ian Flynn has done more good than anything to the sonic franchise as a whole. People gotta realize that the limitations aren't up to him. If it was up to him he would have had the cutscenes completely redone so that it makes more sense while still allowing a legacy mode as well. Its really the higher up executives that put so much restriction in the name of profits. I dont understand why people dont like Ian Flynn. Im not saying that every single thing he has ever done regarding sonic was good but the majority of his work and contributions are good and far better than pre-Ian Flynn era
This might be me on my honeymoon phase speaking (And disagree with me all you want) but Shadow Generations might be in my top 3 if not top 5 Sonic games of all time. This game really shows that Sonic Team has the potential to make a really amazing game.
For the record, J's actually plan to upload this video in November early on, so the fact he just start working on the video after having beating the game told you that this game was a special case
My brother and I were literally sweating in my room staring at the pre order option for this game for weeks before I got home one day and saw he finally gave in. I'm so disillusioned with preorders in general now, but especially from Sega, I have been given zero reason to think they will release a good product on launch.
Cut to a few days ago, when we finally got to play it, and we spent a few hours on Generations noting the new dialogue and changes to the physics/graphics. Wasn't much to say besides either the game has aged a bit poorly or the remaster wasn't perfect, either thing I had expected. But when we got to Shadow's campaign the next day, I was in a state of pure bliss nearly the whole way through. The levels were so incredible, it was such a grand display of scale to have them directly compared to the comparstively smaller stages in Generations. Shadow's levels feel like massive open spaces, where Generations' mostly feel like different hallways (still good levels, but comparatively cramped). It was so refreshing to not only see Shadow's character well-understood and fleshed out, but even given the chance to feel real emotions, which at times it feels like no character in this series is allowed to do after Elise's outburst at the end of 06 made people think she actually wanted the world to end over a little blue guy.
We wrapped it up last night, and safe to say this has become a new favorite in this series, entirely for what Shadow brings to the table.
To give some credit to the Doom Morph, it definitely takes the longest to understand compared to the other Doom Powers. It took me a bit to get a feel for it, but here’s how a friend of mine described it: imagine Shadow as a sling shot. The first fling when you transform will always launch you and transform. Afterwards, imagine the line connect Shadow as the slingshot. Letting go of the button will launch Shadow in that trajectory. So if Shadow is at an 180 degree angle, he will be launched up.
Sorry if this isn’t the best explanation, but once you get a feel for the Doom Morph, it’s actually pretty fun.
It reminds me of what some ppl said about Mania having reused levels instead of having all new levels. Shadow The Edgehog did. Sonic Heroes did it. Even spin-offs like Advanced, Rush and Riders very often gave you new levels. Sega should make that, this sort of improved gameplay, and multiple playable characters as the standard for Sonics games moving forward.
It's cool that this was pretty much a bundle but Lord knows I'd rather this was Shadow The Edgehog 2, especially when nothing new was added to the base game
What I COULD think about the rewritten plot in the remaster is that newbies to the series would be more interested into the lore like they asking themselves "What are the Time Stones" and proceed to look up for them to find out
I will say, I was not a fan of Mephiles’ new voice, no disrespect to the new VA, but he just sounded like some dude, he didn’t have the menace & sinister vibes Dan Green gave the character in 06.
Also the dialogue in that boss fight is interesting, since it implies that he’s in the Void trying to get back into the timeline, I think that’s a set up for his inevitable return in a future game.
Unless it's just him without Iblis I doubt he'll ever return in a new adventure. Solaris is too op. The stakes couldn't get any higher than all of existence being erased at all points in time. Them beating Solaris is the most plot armor I've ever seen ever, they just lucked out that the only things yet to be erased was them, the platform they stood on, and the chaos emeralds, everything they apparently needed.
@@jelloistasty
It would be just him, Iblis doesn’t exist, so Mephiles can’t become Solaris, so what does he do now?
Plus it’d be a great excuse to have Sonic Shadow & Silver all playable in a same game again.
@SmashBrosAssemble Mephiles and Iblis equally don't exist. They both spawned from the flame Elise blew out. If there's a path for Mephiles to return, then there should be a path for Iblis.
I promise you Robbie Daymond brings more pathos to his third distraught shadowy prick than Dan Green just using his trained voice to deliver lines
@@jelloistasty I was gonna say that if he returned, getting a way to make Iblis come back too would be the big plot, but then I realized "wait, that's literally just 06 again lmao"
My favourite feature is that you can turn the doom wings on or off, and they have separate rankings. Trying to get an S rank in radical city without the doom wings was very challenging, since the level is built around that ability, but satifying when i finally did it
Since you never discussed it in the video, what were your thoughts on Dark Beginnings?
I can’t say how happy I am that my favorite content creator that got me into sonic enjoyed the new game and thought it was good and I did too. I enjoyed frontiers, but I don’t know something just always wrong when I play that game and I’ve never been able to put my finger on it, but this game doesn’t have that it’s just amazing and I’m so happy to see almost everyone so excited and loving this and I hope they learn the right lessons
Fun small fact
Theres a dialogue with Gerald that mentions the how Shadow doesn’t know some of the locations, and so gerald explains that in white space the future and past are no different, and you’re just as likely to see the future as you are the past
If the next Sonic game would be excellent (and have Shadow as being in-character), as well as the third movie be a succes ... would a Shadow 2 game have a chance of happening?
My problem with the rewrite changes are generations is supposed to take place before all these other games where the personality changes happened they really didn’t need to redub anything and some
A couple of problems with this video, like when you said shadow says nothing about chaos island and sunset heights is wrong, if you talk to Gerald after playing those levels he actually talks about shadow visiting places he doesn't recognize so he must be seeing the future and the past
But what actually made me a little mad was Amy
She hasn't been relegated to just one of sonics friends, she still likes sonic but it's not her entire personality anymore
You never mentioned the new scene where Amy is trying to show sonic pink and blue cupcakes she made for them, while sonic is talking to other people and is completely oblivious of Amy, which perfectly sums up how they want Amy's relationship with sonic to be
Amy still likes sonic but she's not trying to beat him into submission so he'll marry him anymore (cough cough heroes) while sonic is completely oblivious to Amy, whereas in the original, Amy tried to flirt with sonic and sonic just pushed her away, because back then Amy loving sonic was her whole personality and sonic wasn't oblivious to it, he was just completely against it and it kinda made sonic feel abusive towards Amy in those earlier days
I think Amy was written much better in this game and the new direction theyre taking her relationship with sonic works a lot better than any just constantly being a simp
I’m so hyped not only for Shadow Generations, but also for how pleased people are about this game across the board. It’s great to see so many fans, critics, and casuals on the same page for the most part. J being really happy with this game is a pleasant bonus. ^^
"Thanks, Sonic. Now then, tell me - where's the rest of my island?"
"No clue," said Sonic with an Angel Island shaped stomach.
Dude thank you so much for making me feel like a sane sonic fan. Your videos are thought out, well written, it’s clear you take the time to edit and retake if needed. You provide helpful and well thought out rational analysis and share your opinions in an entertaining way. Your videos are accessible without coming across like you or we viewers are dumb. So glad to see Sonic team making something good. It looks like I’ll enjoy it. Thank you for sharing 😊
Nah I think frontiers and shadow x are written way better than anything happy tree friends writers wrote post unleashed . The happy tree friends ppl didn’t even know what sonic was when they were hired.
37:50 i completely agree with you. The marketing for this game was so exhausting, since we got flodded with trailers showing every single detail for this game already 3-4 months before release. Sega should maybe learn a bit from Nintendo here, who normaly make these kind of trailers 1-2 weeks before release, which to me is early enough.
Radical Highway was my main complaint, because Black Doom seems obssessed with it for like...no reason? If they really needed to reuse the city assets, then why not Westopolis? Black Doom is proud of it as it's his "greatest victory" of taking over the city (or not depending on what canonically happened I guess). Black Comet makes more sense, but Westopolis works if they can't make many new assets.
Radical Highway was where Shadow's vengeance against humanity was at its peak, as well as where it all began. He allows his anger and grief to enable Gerald's manipulations, making the entire scenario a symbol of his wrath.
It's the perfect place to torment him, and Black Doom gave that stage the addition of transforming that it into non-euclidean insanity.
"I just think Radical Highway is so cool"
- Black Doom, probably.
The references feel more like validation and continuity like in Frontiers
And to be fair, this is Generations, a game entirely about referencing older games. It's insane to me that callbacks are considered "out of place" in the game solely about callbacks.
@@yoursonisold8743 if anything, i'm shocked the dialogue wasn't reference-happy to begin with when, like you said, this is "Sonic References: The Game"
@@yoursonisold8743 I know, right? If nothing else, this is the one place where they absolutely belong.
@yoursonisold8743 In a way that makes the game more frustrating, because they could have just made a new game with the full confidence of it being original, yet they choose to remaster a game all about the very thing they have been doing since. The ONLY thing they've been doing. Remaking and recycling older levels.
It's still frustrating that we are still nowhere near moving on from the past despite it being so damn long since the last original title (Colora)
@@stormcutter59 I really don't care. This game is good and brings new people up to speed.
Also what? Colors is the last original game to you? lol
You can make a inane stink about reusing level assets or whatever you want, but Lost World, Forces, Frontiers and Dream Team are all original games, with unique level design and plots. And even this Generations remaster has an entirely new campaign with a new plot and new levels. How far up your own bum are you to claim these games aren't their own thing just because they reference things?
tbh i thought it was funny when amy was an overbearing love interest lol
Fun fact professor Gerald actually does say something about the stages that Shadow goes through and his fight with Mephiles. Its sadly optional dialog so Im not surprised many haven't read it.
I'm not kidding when I say this is the greatest Sonic game since Sonic Adventure. I had a lot of fun with Frontiers, but it had a ton of issues. So I didn't think we'd be getting one of the best Sonic games ever, this soon after it.
Lets hope this time we get some DLC.
Grand Metropolis (Hero's)
Final Fortress (Hero's)
Wave Ocean (06)
Starlight Carnival (Colours)
Cryptic Castle (Shadow)
Night Palace (Secret Rings)
Studiopolis (Mania)
They could easily port the Unleashed act 1 stages. Modders did lt.
Haven't played Sonic Forces or Black Knight
You know your game is FANTASTIC when you prefer it to playing the fan favorite boost game it's attached to (by fans at least unleashed still tops gens for me and is easily my favorite sonic game)
Happy to hear you are enjoying it too bad Unleashed is still objectively better and claiming that everyone somehow "prefers" playing this one instead of the most challenging and better designed Unleashed is cap on its finest form.
Great review, and yes I agree with that we should be done with the nostalgia levels. New stages, locations and a brand new *interesting* story.
Personally I really liked the fact that chaos island was in the game, I do agree that it didn't make sense in retrospect.
39:44 fun fact Stephanie Sheh plays maria , also Hinata in Naruto Shippuden, sailor moon in sailor moon Viz, eternal cosmos movies on Netflix. Loved her performance tbh
She also plays Orihine Inoue from bleach
This and Pariah's review are like night and day, it's funny.
Me personally I'm less concerned about my personal enjoyment of the recent Sonic titles and more happy that the overall franchise is making this many people happy. Even if I don't personal agree with something, I'm glad that the directions the franchise is taking works for so many other people. In the end, I only want as many people as possible to enjoy their money's worth.
That's exactly what I was saying. Why couldn't we get a Black Comet level for Black Doom. I get that it would take time, but c'mon, Shadow the Hedgehog (2005) deserves representation here. You already got the main villain, why not the level?
I'm not a fan of rewrites, but if they pull a Sonic Frontiers-like content map with Sonic X Shadow Generations, Black Comet would be a level I'd want to see.
You could even add it in as an extra story, and we see Black Bull make an appearance. It seems that Sonic Team is interested in redeeming Sonic 06 with redesigning the levels. Why not 2005 Shadow the Hedgehog as well. It just feels so weird that Shadow's own game doesn't have level representation, but Sonic Frontiers does.
Again, I hope they do a content road map like with Frontiers and we get something like that in the future.
41:22 At the end of Shadow 05 Shadow remembers what happened in the ark and he can't deal with all his feelings and decides to cut all his ties with the ark, first by killing Black Doom and second by abandoning all his memories with Maria and Gerald and never acknowledge it, and now in Shadow Generation he is forced to deal with sorrow instead of just ignoring it and at the end of the game he sheds a single tear of grief
Man, it's great to see almost everyone really liking this game, including myself. Frontiers was just meh. Damn Sonic x Shadow Generations really made me happy.
I loved this game. But as you said, I am hoping that, much like Shadow learning to move on from his past (again lol), the series takes this meta opportunity to also move forward and leave the past behind it, onto.. New... Horizons... (This comment was not written by Ian Flynn, I promise)
Sonic Generations was first written in English, then was rewritten in Japanese, then was rewritten in English.
15:19 this just set in a harsh taste of reality how if they do rerelease Unleashed they're totally gonna redub the game aren't they
Funny enough, Shadow the Hedgehog 2005 was released in the same year I was born in. So while I do get the hate for that game, it was the one game that had a place in my heart for almost a decade, as that was my first Sonic game.
great video, one thing though that i think might help you with your playthrough with chaos island, I also didn't know how to control the doom morph, but if you swing with doom morph and let go of the button when you are at the bottom of the swing, you will go vertically up and it honestly makes it one of my favorite levels, hope that helps
Interesting how the last unanimously praised mainline Sonic game was Sonic Generations in 2011, now in 2024 it’s Shadow Generations bundled with Sonic Generations.. 🤔 Frontiers was praised, however many people did have issues with it.
tbf they basically refining the type of gameplay that already exist. both games have same gameplay from previous games, like modern sonic gens gameplay took from sonic unleashed while shadow took from frontiers refining it.
Nice to know that this game turned out to be more than well. I mean, when you got someone who's on the harder side of pleasing like J, then you've done something right. SEGA, you guys been a roll for the last few years with Sonic. Please don't stop.
Okay, for real, Amy still loves Sonic. That's obvious in Frontiers. And you know, you ignore something. Amy in the rewrite asks Classic Sonic if he is cute. So she obviously still loves him. It's just rewritten to be a little less annoying. Like her trying to assasult Sonic and him blocking her face casually. I really really don't like when people spread misinformation.
Not only that but what they replaced that scene with was Amy holding Pink and Blue cupcakes trying to give them to Sonic....
Pink and Blue....
As in Amy and Sonic.
Seriously this narrative that Amy is not interested in Sonic is such BS, all they did was make Amy less overtly fanatical with her love for Sonic and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that
When I was a young sonic fan I couldn’t stand Amy so I’m glad she’s toned down
There's also an optional line from Rouge in Shadow's story where Rouge tells Shadow how important he is to her and then she laughs at herself for "sounding like Amy".
Amy's character changed too significantly. So most hardcore Amy fans will obviously be upset
It shouldn't be "rewritten to be less annoying." Amy is Amy. Have a problem with her character, a brand new one female character should be made.
But by changing Amy so significantly, her original fans will be upset. Same as 4Kids changing anime so characters would be more "appropriate." Dont change what already exists.
We have no option to even play the original generations
Shadow *does* ask Gerald about why he is seeing stages he has never been to (Chaos island and Kingdom Valley) then the professor mentions it could be pulling places from the future, and you could say that the reason chaos island appears is because it is resonating with the chaos emerald shadow is carrying/maybe frontiers dlc with shadow?
Also you could say the final stage choice makes sense since shadow is "facing his past and returning to the beginning aka his very first level, the place he first started down his path of vengeance and anger, doom may be trying to get those dark emotions out of shadow.
38:38 having emotional stakes is totally a selling point for a good story. Considering that SHADOW is the second most popular sonic character and what made him famous was his Emotional story and his final sacrifice.
The reason the complete shift from Generations into Lost World happened is because back then, Sega had a contract with Nintendo to ship like 5 or so games on their consoles, starting with Sonic and the Secret Rings, hence why that transition to most people seems super strange. Lost World was just a continuation of that trend that ended with the Sonic Boom games. I don't think we have to worry about a complete genre shift happening again, just the regular ole fear of whether or not the next game coming out just sucks (in the Sonic Forces sense).
I want someone to mod in Magna-Fi’s “Who I Am” into the final boss with Neo Devil Doom.
SAME BRO WHY DID THEY NOT USE WHO I AM FOR NEO DD BRUH THAT WOULDVE BEEN PERFECT AND ITS A WASTE OF SUCH A BANGER
@@Idkwhat2namemyself-f3q
Because Sega don’t own that song
That's literally what it should've been in the first place. I was legit expecting it to happen at the end but sadly not.
Would also have loved to hear some of the other lost tracks like Broken and All Of Me from Sins of a Divine Mother for that peak 00's edge that kinda comes with Shadow's design and legacy
Jun Senoue didn't like it.
@@kenrichgumanid9235Jun Senoue L
Sonic Generations is pretty underdone here, especially considering how polished Shadow Generations is. Then you look at the control inconsistencies between the two [you can use the dpad in 2D in Sonic Gens but not in Shadow Gens, you can use the L and R buttons to switch rails in Shadow Gens but not Sonic Gens] AND how Sonic Gens still has that crashing problem with the online ranking mode, and it's very clear to me that when you buy this game, you're buying Shadow Generations with a weird slightly-edited port of Sonic Generations as a bonus game stapled to it.
yeah, it's clear that shadow gens is built in but sonic is just weirdly stapled on to it
mike pollock sounds in all recent sonic projects like he's just reading the script with no acting
It's definitely weird because I think the other VAs have improved over the years, but Mike keeps sounding more and more like you said. Maybe J is right, he's getting old...
12:52 I mean, they aren't wrong. You gotta admit that the idea of change needs some limitations.
They may say it's to create consistency, but we all know that's not the true motive here.
I mean they aren't really right or wrong in my eyes... its just meaningless.
These changes really don't affect anything in particular. They are all very neutral changes.
@@TheUltimateMachineGod Vegeta: "Meaningless! What would you know of meaningless?!"
@@productionsinparadise2880 Now to your credit I do kinda wish there was a toggle for the dialouge. Mostly for the same reason and J has in the video. Art preservation is a good thing...
But the main issue i have is the person who made the tweet very specifically is raising culture war topics.
It mainly comes across like they only care about culture war stuff rather than having a principled stance on the matter.
@@TheUltimateMachineGod of course, that's understandable. But when you think about it, big companies make changes to keep certain people at bay when in reality there was nothing wrong with anything in the first place and the change(s) overcomplicates things long term (distructures what we've come to love and that includes forms of censorship).
Your issue with the air boost is easily remedied by chaos spear. You can extend your air-time from both boosting off of ramps and air boosting by throwing out chaos spears since that makes your momentum carry for longer (this also allows you to make some insane jumps in certain levels like kingdom valley).
About the Amy thing, They absolutely are NOT moving in a more "platonic" direction with them at all. Sonic outright implies he's into Amy IN Frontiers and the comics (both written by Ian Flynn).
If anything, they made AmyxSonic reciprocal.
for those who think the air movement is underwhelming is shadow gens, chaos spear carries air momentum so have fun with that. Absolute game changer
I'm so hyped to hear the levels (hub world included) are really fun because I really missed the bigger 3D segments without a ton of speed pads. The 2D segments can be good too but I really hope they can keep working on making 3D segments fun. There's still room for more 3D platformers with fast and free movement so I hope Sonic (and Shadow) can keep delivering on this. There's more indie games like that too now but I can't help but ask for more of it because of how common 3D action platformers were at one point in time.