@@LeadMe2TheBlissthis isn’t a rebuttal. You can improve everything sure, but things of worse quality will obviously be less enjoyable than something better.
@@LeadMe2TheBliss fair enough, I haven’t played it myself either. But I don’t think it’s too bad, just it could’ve used some polishing on the animations and camera. I’d wait for the game to go on sale before playing it though but overall I can see why someone would enjoy it.
Unlike Sonic Forces, I hope we see another game like Frontiers. I think this is the type of game I would want to buy and play. Sega needs to put more resources into Sonic games at this point because it's getting really sad seeing how low budget these games are.
I agree. I've heard the team will be getting a bigger budget thanks to the success of Frontiers, but I'll believe it when I see it. Despite the game's financial success, Sega had a lot of financial ruin to wade through after the failure of Boom and I'm not sure how much they've recovered since then. Mania did well, Frontiers did well, and Forces TECHNICALLY did well since it cost zilch to make.
After finishing The Final Horizon, I went to finish a play through of Unleashed that I had on the back burner. And as I was playing the final boss against Perfect Dark Gaia, it made me miss something I didn’t realise was missing in Frontiers’ bosses: the dialogue. A lot of the older games had characters talking during the Super Sonic bosses, and they not only added to the atmosphere, but also explained how to beat the bosses in case some players found it unclear. Frontiers lacked this and I think that was a big mistake. They should definitely be added back in the future imo.
@@Wow1wthat, or they're afraid of "IT LOOKS LIKE A HOMING SHOT" Edit: That being said, I agree that the final boss would have benefited heavily from it due to how obtuse it can seem for those not knowing (or use better checkpoints and not force you to redo base Supreme)
The dialogue during the last fight in sonic and the black knight so GOATED. Part of the issue with Sonic Frontiers is the type of bosses they chose. In prior sonic titles, enemy bosses are Characters in their own right. These just aren't.
Anyone else think he should drop the clickbaity titles? I prefered the older more genuine and straightforward titles that made you want to watch the video for the "how come?" or "why?" instead of the "does it?"
Wouldn't that defeat the point of a review? People wouldn't even watch it then. They would see it as "a video by a HATER" and refuse to watch it. But the criticisms in the video are valid and should be heard.
Despite loving Frontiers a lot, I won't deny that the tower climbs in The Final Horizon made me rage to a shocking degree. I was baffled to say the least, and then the final boss happened and I was clueless on what to do. By the time I defeated it and saw the new ending, I felt completely hollow. My feelings have softened a bit since then, and I realize some people actually wanted Frontiers to be a lot harder, and they definitely got what they were asking for, but I was so relieved to discover that Easy mode lets you cheese those towers and have a longer parry in those later challenges, because wow. Clearly this video wasn't easy for you to make, but I really appreciate that you went through with it, because I honestly had no idea whether you would feel better or worse about the game overall after the updates, and was very curious to hear your thoughts. You raised a lot of great points in this video, regardless of how I feel about Frontiers personally.
A lot of people complaining about the difficulty of the DLC are forgetting that it was completely FREE. It's all optional content that you aren't required to engage with to complete the game. I was happy to finally have a difficult Sonic challenge
@@damiensharp2138 Not at all. You can have the opinion that the DLC content should have been part of the base game, because the base game was not worth $60 in your opinion, for instance. Then what? Are you not allowed your opinion despite this? There is no floor and no ceiling for what does or does not allow for criticism.
am i going insane or is the game HEAVILY chugging in this videos footage every few minutes? like holy christ that looks horrendous and im surprised nobody else has mentioned it in the comments so far
I've never agreed with something I disagree with more than this. Coming from somebody whos completed the game 3 times, I think all your gripes with the game are valid and things I don't like myself (like the parry). I still think the game is fun though, and I've enjoyed the first two updates thoroughly.
I feel the same way. I still really enjoyed Frontiers yet I can't disagree with most of his points. I think the things I agree with and disagree with are so mixed together in this video that it makes it difficult to pinpoint each of them in his points.
7:50 unsure if dmc5 carries this over but higher style rankings in the dmc games always made your moves and combos stronger, not only is it an aesthetically pleasing design choice, it's that it actually rewards the player by making their attacks more effective
I've never felt so disconnected with the Sonic community than with this game LOL. It's so hard for me to call this game so much as 'decent' when I know Sonic games can be, and have been, significantly better than this in one way or another. But it's been so long, fans just don't remember or don't have that experience with some of the older titles. This game has a ton of spectacle and that's a very important ingredient in a Sonic game, but it's almost completely lacking the substance underneath. The loops of gameplay are either incompetently put together or totally shallow.
Same here. It's not like people are wrong for liking this game, but I'm so baffled by how people are calling this game "peak fiction" or "one of the best Sonic Games" when so much of the game is just straight up garbage imo. If this is really the best that Sonic has to offer to this fandom, then it just makes me sad that we've forgotten about the quality of the old games.
Right, it makes me think these people weren't around when Sonic games were consistently on the roll 20 years ago. I got to experience it, and it was great! But in the last 10 years, with the long periods of waiting for the next Sonic game, with the exception of Sonic Mania, I've grown apathetic on every entry. I really don't know. Maybe I just don't vibe with Sonic anymore.
It pains me to agree, but this is exactly how I feel about the game looking back. This game in concept gets some parts right, but in execution it does a lot of it poorly. I hope that going forward we get something that reflects the AAA intention that unleashed provided, but that's another 5ish years waiting and that hurts to say.
Agreed 100% I’m glad people are enjoying it as much as they are, but I can’t call it a great game. I can’t recommend it. It’s more of a guilty pleasure for me since there’s a lot that I liked but way more that I disliked.
"Comparing Sonic to other games isn't fair!" is definitely wrong. I think a more accurate description is this: Many of the things criticized in certain Sonic games such as simplicity, repetition, hazard placement, puzzles, and lack of visual cohesion consistently appear in other platformers with a vengeance. For example, the dinosaurs at Nintendo refuse to let Mario evolve yet they have such a hold on the industry that critics keep meatriding them like, "It's a simple formula, but it works!" Yet whenever Sonic tries anything new like adding a few different moves to use on different types of enemies, critics are "polarized." It's almost like Sonic, compared to other platformers, has an unfair expectation to constantly be a trailblazer because of how revolutionary the classics were. Yet with something painfully unoriginal like Sonic 4 where level design and combat rely heavily on spamming the Homing Attack, critics call it a "return to form," as if any games they made in between have nothing of merit. Game journalists also can't stop getting off on mentioning '06, as if Sonic still needs redemption 18 years after that. It's perfectly fair to compare Sonic to other games, but game journalism in general is a joke.
It still boggles my mind that the basic movement parameters have sliders. Sure, this helps people figure out the movement that they like best, but they shouldn't need to. That's the point of designing a game: you design it. And that's all of it since its different components have to interact and play well together. If there's such a disparity in being able to move around the map as requiring sliders for acceleration, then the map just isn't designed well. It's one thing to have sliders for FOV and sensitivity -- the physical, IRL ability to control how the game responds to your inputs -- but how fast you move? Ross Scott pointed out in his most recent video that a lot of game criticism gets bogged down with criticizing the low hanging fruit that isn't really the problem. Sliders aren't inherently a problem, and it's good to give players more deftness to their ability to control the playable character. But the bigger -- deeper -- issue is why that needs to be done for such fundamental movement parameters in a game series where momentum and map design encouraging building skill with fast pace, appealing movement. If you had to provide sliders in Sonic The Hedgehog or Sonic Adventure 1/2 for their speed and acceleration, you would break the game. And that's not breaking it in the way speedrunners do and people routinely praise Sonic games for letting you do. You'd either have settings too low to allow you to actually complete levels without many, many more automated sections, or you have settings too high to actually control Sonic in a way that makes the levels feasible without constantly stopping to regain control. Yet this isn't really an issue in Frontiers, because the map isn't really built with Sonic's movement in mind. The map just is and Sonic's movement just is; they weren't designed together. And this is the same issue with the new update. We can debate final boss or ending is better, but that's not really the issue. The developers shouldn't be able to do that. And that isn't to say they should be barred from doing it, but that it should break the design of the game. The entire game led up to that point and supposedly was designed with some sort of goal in mind, both for the concluding gameplay and the story's conclusion. Maybe these were the dueling ideas for where they game was going and the team never pinned it down to a single creative direction. Maybe it's a retcon based on critical reception and the original wasn't actually all that important. Either way, the design was never finished or (worse) done in the first place. Sonic Team has done some amazing games in the past, and designed games that fundamentally changed aspects of gaming, taking on (And briefly eclipsing, IMO) their rival of choice, Mario. It's just so painful seeing them not able to succeed anymore, and I kind of wish I hadn't learned about the Sammy-Sega merger, because it explains too much of what's happened over the years while being just cynically mercenary in the worst sense (Moon Channel's video on "Why Sega isn't Overprotective of Their Intellectual Property?", if you want to know more).
Giving people options is nice. It's not laziness or lack of design, it's what people on PC would have done anyway so it let's everyone have fun, the point of gaming.
I mean, even some RPG games have difficulty settings that change enemy stats or even their AI. It's more to accommodate as many players as they can. Without it, it comes down to a whole "git gud" dynamic which is honestly degrading. Plus there's the age range of the audience too. Sega is making it a point to ensure kids can enjoy sonic too, so settings for making things easier or harder is already a good step. however, if things are TOO easy, then it's an issue. I can understand why a lot complained that the base game was too easy, but sega's attempt at making it harder in the final horizon also sucked cause of a suddenly HUGE spike along with things already being pretty cryptic.
You have no experience with Sonic fans and their opinions if you unironically believe there could ever be a one size fits all solution to how Sonic is supposed to move. This is something that gives everyone what they want, and what that is, is not the same between two people. Context matters.
I feel like the Frontiers design could work PERFECTLY if it was done in a city, or cities. In Unleashed you go from continent to continent, this could work with Frontiers. If Sonic Team comes out with a Frontiers 2 turn it into a world adventure.
It honestly just feels like a modern adventure field. Put in NPCs with mini quests and other goodies and it's the same thing. I just think the series needs a slightly increased budget and is allowed to actually cook for as long as it needs. Because that's the main faults I see.
It's funny to me that in November of 2022, both Sonic frontiers in pokémon Scarlet & Violet released to a magnitude amount of issues, bugs and overall questionable game design decisions and yet, the approach both games had gone to try to redeem themselves were completely different. Frontiers may not be as terrible or 'absolute peak fiction' as what people on the internet like to claim it is, but I will at least be grateful that despite how little time and more importantly, _budget_ Sega granted their devs with (along with threatening to fire the director too simply for asking for a delay), Sonic Team really tried to improve their game in several fronts from quality of life features, different control schemes, and straight up new content plus mechanics that add more to the overall experience all for free. One sought to try their players back with core improvements to their game, focusing on its weaker elements, while the other simply charged their consumers another season pass where they go to a secluded area completely separate from the main game where they just do the same thing that people are tired of for the last few decades. Also all the bugs, glitches and performance issues for Pokemon have not been addressed either because _we gotta get that bread am I right?_ And while I would say Sonic Team didn't quite fully succeed in making the final product as great as it could've been, for the first time in a long time, I can actually say that I have hope for the future of this franchise. I just wish the light I see at the end of the table is not another Red Herring where Sega ignores all the feedback for this one, pivots, and chugs out yet another completely different gameplay style that nobody asked for🤦♀️
I agree with you completely but an issue is nobody is ever satisfied with sonic games saying calling it mid is generous like sonic adventure 1 and 2 came out everyone said it was bad but now a days it's a masterpiece cos everything else is bad I like sa 2 not so much sa1 but Sega stops listening to feed back cos it's not constructive criticism at some points it's just criticism for example sonic frontiers could have been better they did free dlc spoke to fans fixed main issues and people still find 500 things wrong with it and when Sega bins the idea suddenly sonic frontiers was an amazing game why did they chuck it people always want "improvements" but never say what they are just expects Sega to know it's like a toxic couple that can't talk to each other
In reality people just bash on sonic and praise Mario even Mario wonder I think it's cool but it's not the Mona Lisa of Mario it's just a 2.5D adventure and everyone treats it like it's the best game ever it's creative sure but it isn't so incredibly revolutioninary to just give it a crown it's just new super Mario bros with upgrades and sonic superstars is almost the same thing but no Mario's better cos it's Mario so I'm sad sonic isn't beloved but people have rights to there opinion but don't bash games that aren't that horrible a 7 out of 10 is a perfect score fore this game and let it be don't over hype other games and compare them to games that can just stay safe I mean Mario had more time and budget for his games while sonic gets rushed but if it's a 7 let it be a 7 don't force it to be a 3 cos Mario was 10 anyway apologies for me splurging out with opinions and I just wanted to say I agree
I still think base frontiers is the better game for at least making attempts to change for the sake of an open world game while pokemon SV is just the same game but you can play it in any order as if winking to the people complaining about the linearity of games gen 5 onward
@@adinsh3102sa1 and sa2 were reviewed very well at launch. It was only when the broken ports of them came out as well and heroes shadow and 06 back to back that the opinion changed. They did very well originally
frankly the most interesting thing to expect out of frontiers for me is if some madman redesigns all the open zones to have challenges and structures that fit the area instead of just being floating rails and springs
I just dont like frontiers. All the people who say "its the best sonic game" give answers that are most likely in other sonic games (normally the adventures) and overlook all the glitches and things. Something as simple as the pop in makes the game look pathetic and beyond last gen. I don't really understand the praise, and I can already see someone replying to this saying "but its got a story" or "but the characters do more than forces". The only reason I see people say that for is because its better than forces. Which it is. But that isnt a high bar to reach.
people say its the best sonic game because its the game they find most fun simple as that, of course in terms of polish its not near the best sonic game, but its for sure the right direction for the series
Maybe SA shares some of the things in frontiers people like about it, but maybe that’s why they like it, Sonic gameplay similar to SA games, except unlike the SA games there isn’t insane amounts of terrible bonus crap like mech shooting with cheap traps and linear slow platforming, or treasure hunting stages that last half an hour to a whole hour long on average, people keep telling me SA2 is the best Sonic game, but I absolutely despise it, and can’t understand why people like it so much, similar to your statement on frontiers.
While I do agree that the characters are well done, the story itself is not why I like the game: I hate the lore it brings up, and I've yet to finish the DLC because of the insane difficulty spike of the boss rush, but ultimately I love this game because for all of its flaws, (and there are quite a few) and for all of the internal debate about whether or not I love it as much as I think I do, this is the kind of game that you boot up, start a new save file, tool around and rapidly realize that your complaints have melted away because the game is ridiculously fun. It's fun, and the movement is amazing (excluding cyberspace), and it feels just GOOD to run around in. It's like the addicting satisfaction of starting up Marvel's Spider-Man for PS4 just to swing around and enjoy yourself. It's not traditional, and there ARE missteps, and I don't want to revisit the Starfall Islands or the somewhat dull artstyle, but it IS unique to the franchise and I DO love it a lot.
I just like exploring these islands. It's a large, open area that gives me the most gratifying example of Sonic's trademark speed that it shocks me it wasn't thought of in the first place. Sure, blazing past linear levels is always a good time, but having a large landscape that I'm plopped down into, and told to just dick around in with the world's most hyperactive blue meerkat gives me such a giddy feeling.
Sonic frontiers is still a great game, it’s not the best, but it’s great for its Open World exploration, the Combat moves are super fun to use & the bosses are a blast, and there’s plenty of post game content to try.
Lots of room for improvement, but I had fun overall. The Titans are some of.my favorite things to happen in a Sonic game. Hopefully Sega finds a way to perfect this formula.
imo it’s my favorite sonic game, along with 3&K, SA2, and I would say the other one but you’d strangle me. But im glad im not the only one who really enjoys this game.
@@rfh9560 honestly forces wasnt necessarily a *bad* game. If sega had been more keen on making it less automated lol and had the stages been a couple minutes longer that would have been a great game. Maybe the story through speech bubble thing that was probably the thing that really made that game a D class title.
@@Sunflower_SM64 its your favorite sonic game because its the best sonic game period. Sonic mania and sonic frontiers are the pinnacle of 2D and 3D sonic respectively. The only people that didnt think sonic frontiers was a great game was the "sonic was never good" meat heats. Frontiers was a love letter to fans.
Honestly... being able to play as Amy, Knuckles, and Tails was the only legitimately fun part of the DLC. And that was entirely because once you fully upgrade all of their abilities they can literally FLY across the map, making it really fun just because of their ridiculous mobility. You can basically skip most of their puzzles because of this... which is fine by me because getting the reward is the only fun part of doing said puzzles. The Trials were just awful, and very unintuitive. The towers you had to climb were unforgiving on any difficulty other than easy. The titan boss rush was HORRIBLE because the bosses are so janky and weren't designed with the perfect parry in mind. And worst of all, what could have been an epic finally with a new Super form was bogged down by the horrible camera, janky mechanics they never told you about (pressing the trigger to switch targets to take out the purple wire), and a rather repetitive counter attack animation.
I think everyone agrees the game lacks polish including the DLC. Even though the characters handle well for the most part, there are still random jerks and weird hit detection or things of that nature depending upon your speed, how close you are to objects, etc. Sega, Sonic Team, what have you have been notoriously bad when it comes to this, even with the mostly considered "good" 3D games such as SA1 and 2. Sonic has never had a non-janky 3D outing, though it varies in degree depending upon the title. It would be a literal shock to the system, like actually frozen in awe for a moment, if they ever did release a truly Nintendo-esque quality polished product.
i disagree with some (most) of this, specially isnce most of these complains can be explained with the fact that the DLC was obviously designed with players that played the base game to death, but, i find it really funny when people point out the target switching thing, when its pretty much only said in the first encounter with ninja, and it is used (optionally) during the entire game :)))
@@Abykitty06 Most of my complaints were about how janky it was. And up until they updated with a patch, the DLC was hard even on easy mode, which was my biggest gripe with it.
Like i said it's just a mid Sonic game. It's not anything to write home about that Sonic fanboys are making it be. Wait you'll get called an "Adventure or 2D shill" for not kissing ass to this game. I hate the Sonic community so much.
Yeah, i think this is more so a subjective "it just didnt work for me" kinda video, which of course is perfectly valid. There is no point about discussing this game or really the whole future of official games when it seems most people made up their mind, you included. Now I can just anticipate you to review a series I think most people enjoy, that being the 2012 TMNT. On a quick side note, appreciate you admitting the whole Frontiers vid being rushed. Takes balls to admit that.
Mostly everything he said is pretty objective though. Combat is clunky and button mashy and having an infinite parry is ridiculous. Game does look like a PS3 game as well, and you can't really argue against the bad constant pop-out, that's an objective flaw. Overall, it's not a bad game, but there's a decent room for improvement. At least I can see the skeleton of a great game, hopefully we can get all the improvements in the next Sonic game.
Also, sorry to make a second comment, but I think someone like you, Js, is worth a place in the Sonic community. To be a bit blunt, I think it's nice to have someone who's got higher standards in this series or one with a completely unique perspective. I notice that Sonic players (not specifically fans) have fallen into a state where they accept what I believe is subpar or mediocre Sonic games, almost as if they're afraid of giving any level of criticism to a series they adore, but that's not how games or series get better.
@@ericstaten2562 so many ppl love this game BC even with it's flaws it's darn good adventure. In fact, the game is like 06, it's flaws are so hilarious sometimes that it adds to it's greatness.
From my understanding, the fans are just basically looking for anything to praise and validate because of the miserable time Sonic has in the 2000s and the mid to late 2010s. And don't want SEGA or Sonic Team to get cold feet about the Franchise again and let it fall into guaranteed mediocrity or death.
No I completely disagree about letting the player adjust the controls to their liking. They're not the game designer, so they have no idea what the character should control like. Even if you spend like a whole hour tweaking, it's not gonna feel right. And that is simply because THE GAME WASN'T MADE WITH A CONTROL SET IN MIND SO IT HAS TO CATER TO EVERY POSSIBLE OPTION BY BEING AS GENERIC AS POSSIBLE. And that is EXACTLY what happened with Sonic Frontiers. It is an empty game filled with almost no real 3d platforming. They fill up the map with automatic rails to grind and switch to 2d segments often because they literally have to. That was the only way for them to give you a platforming segment with all controls in mind. If you ever want to make a game, please do not let the player dictate how the character controls, your level design will suffer immensely for it.
This, exactly this. Imagine if Mario 64 or literally any other platformer did this. It's not accessible or giving options, it's a copout. Essentially saying "idk you figure out how he should control". This isn't a difficulty slider to make it easier for casuals, it's literally adjusting movement in a platformer. A game based entirely on movement 🤦🏾 Remember the skill system from generations? that is how you offer customization for a platformer. A few cool abilities limited by capacity. You can change small things like brake speed or boost gauge amount but nothing like secret rings where better controls is an unlock for some reason. Plus it left room for stuff like super sonic and the homing attack to be powerful unlockables since they took more slots iirc IDK how this idea made it into the game or how they even tested anything with these options implemented.
Frontiers was always a great game for me personally. And the updates simply improved everything I already enjoyed. Of course I'm aware of the unpolished state the game is. But for me the good far outweigh what I found bad.
Honestly I haven't bothered with update 3 much beyond the initial excitement of playing as new characters. Between the insane difficulty increase of the level design and boss rush, it just didn't sound fun to slog through. Combined with Superstars' final two bosses being similarly frustrating to the point where they took me over 8 hours to complete (the final one being due to poor pc optimization), and it just leaves me scratching my head as to why these games, for as unpolished and messy as they are, are expecting such perfection from the player. I really hope they cool it with the difficulty and focus on polish because holy shit.
@@dn22pkkdd476 There’s a difference between getting good and a game that’s extremely difficult in comparison to everything else, and having things that you wouldn’t understand so you’ll get stuck on a certain part, unless someone else tells you about it because the game itself didn’t tell you or imply what you need to do.
@@MissNaomyo lower the difficulty, then get good. The option is there. The only thing that does not work on is the boss rush. And even then, dropping the difficulty gives you a larger, more fair, parry window. If you can't beat the game after that, I don't know what to tell you...... Except Get Good.
Finally! Someone talked about all the problems I had with the game! Boring story with meaningless callbacks, the collecting got stale by the third island, annoying forced 2D sections, stiff animations, and boring environments. I don’t agree with the boss fights though. I haven’t had that much fun in a Sonic boss fight since Unleashed. It’s so refreshing to see someone have the same problems that I did. Every other fan is praising the game like it’s the new SA2, and that confuses me. We even agree that getting to finally play as these characters isn’t as exciting if you already didn’t like the base game since you’re just playing all over again.
I bet if I made this review people would jump and hate on me. All few other negative reviews for this game got backlash but it seems this ones in the clear
@@mart5610 mostly because j never targets the fandom, unlike someone like jeb or telekenetic man Who constantly brought It up, even radical soda is more understandable than those guys, and mind you i don't agree they should be jumped and treated like monsters, their reviews are just as valid
Its an okay game. But in my book, "better than the last game" isnt where I put my hat down. Its a 6-7/10 at best. It has no style, it has relative form. It tries way too hard to pander to an audience too diverse to pander too (children and sonic fans in general). But it never once focused on having fun...ya know the formula of a good game. Sonic Frontiers is just a better Sonic game in physics only. But even the devs dont kniw what "magical" formula their missing to make it sore higher in the fan spectrum. Until they focus on just making a good game rather than appealing to what fans want, Sonic will continue to be a mediocre exoerience.
This is my opinion: it doesn't suck in itself, it's the likelihood (or lack there of) that Sega will build upon this formula. Some of the choices in this game are baffling enough to support that (Cyberspace, copy/pasting rails in these barren non sonic like worlds). It's passable and a nice concept, if you believe Sega is competent enough to build on it. You'd think they will at least make the sequel. It does suck IF you're a fan of traditional 3D Sonic visuals/feel (think Sonic Heroes, Generations). It's not likely that they're gonna suddenly revert to Sonic Adventure visuals after this. At this point we're probably hoping that they can just make a better game with this new direction. It's not bad solely because they tried something new, that was welcome.
@@DraztikMeasurezlove sonic but you’re right this game is very mid, I feel like sonic games mostly being bad is blinding people from how mediocre this game is, however it is a step in the right direction. And if they build on this we could have a very good game on our hands
THANK YOU!! I really needed to someone to actually point out stuff that all people likes to ignore. It really saddens me that this is a the project people settles with
So many Sonic fans on UA-cam afraid to criticize a 3D Sonic game after years of bad ones. The youtube thumbnails all say the same thing "best sonic game hype" when the game is basically Forces 2.0
There IS a reason to mix attacks. The big cinematic attacks slow down everything that isn't Sonic. If you mix different cinematic attacks, the enemies will barely get a chance to attack. You can technically do it with 1 cinematic attack too, but you'll have to homing attack in between to reset the process, whereas mixing different cinematic attacks doesn't have that problem, making it more efficient. Add to that the fact you can cyloop certain enemies to leave them staggered for a long time (especially with quick cyloop), and the ability to cancel ANY attack with a quick-step, and you can do a lot more with the combat than you claimed.
I agree, I'd say the real issue is that most of the game doesn't give you much of a reason to do otherwise, which is why I really like extreme mode and final horizon as in my opinion they actually force you to mix up your attacks and use your cyloop while also being careful with your rings
@@zeyadamr5169 I love extreme mode. Dying in 1 hit encourages me to git gud and learn new strategies. I learned how to stunlock Tank and Caterpillar with quick cyloops and cinematic attacks (even the harder + versions in The Final Horizon).
My thing is your NEVER actually playing the game like you would Devil May Cry (the game people like to compare this too to make it seem deep). This game has no actual identity fluidity to its combat. If spammong a cutscene is what ya'll call strategy....Even Sonic Boom and Unleashes Werehog have this game beat on that regard. Combat is busted and the devs know it but cabt change the entire game for it.
@@roiitzkovich4545 I aint ever been as locked in fighting Giganto as I did on extreme mode, the second phase turns from a spectacle raiser to an actual terrifying threat as you realise those back lasers can KILL YOU, so you have to carefully stay infront of the mf's face and stay still whenever he attacks to not crash into them, give me that with the 1 second parry frame and I think the titans become the best sonic bosses imo
@@DraztikMeasurez You can also use momentum and the environment to your advantage. When fighting a tower, you can climb to a high area and go straight to a tower's head to kill it immediately. Besides, the combat isn't the main focus of the game. If this was a DMC or a KH game I would've been much harsher about it. But this game, at its core, is a platformer. You can't reach the level of complexity as a full-on H&S when 60% of the controller is dedicated to platforming maneuvers. Morio Kishimoto knew a DMC/Bayonetta combat won't work in a Sonic game. He even mentioned in an interview once that he initially wanted a H&S combat for Frontiers, but realized it won't work for it. Therefore, Sonic Team picked a more simplistic approach, with enemies designed with that simplistic combat in mind. The combat is merely an added flourish to compliment the exploration-platforming focused gameplay. It's far from peak combat, but I don't think it should be. For what it AIMS to be, it's good.
I kinda wish you talked about the new cyberspace levels a bit more, I thought they were really fun and challenging and a big improvement over the base game. I understand the total package isn’t for you, I’m just glad to enjoy a Sonic game unconditionally after all these updates.
I like frontiers, but it feels like a fangame. Fun but super unrefined with a lot of generic assets. I enjoy the formula, but really want it to be refined. With Superstars and Dream Team they seem to be getting better with the interactions, art design, and especially the animation. I don't want them to just throw it away
Sonic Frontiers became a game I extremely loved, also this is the few times Sonic Team is using combat mechanics. They haven't perfected it yet so only we can hope in the next game, it'll be better. Also, Sonic Frontiers only had a 2 year development time. So yes, it was rushed. But this is a test of what we'll get in the future so whatever wrong Frontiers has, you'll probably won't see it in the next game!
Alot of the sonic fans in the comments need to get higher expectations, "its got flaws but blah blah its great actually" its not. the moment you compare this game to literally anything out rn including indy games, it falls apart. Its good for a sonic game needs to stop being used as an excuse, same with it being a step forward. Its a bad game, period.
Frontiers is great. I think the traversal and combat were handled well considering it's meant for kids to understand. I just don't think comparing it to devil may cry combat is fair considering 7 year olds have to be able to play. So, I think they did a great job with the cards they were dealt.
How do people treat this amount of pop in as remotely acceptable in any finished game?! Let alone a triple AAA one. I've played since the 2000s and I've never seen something so blatantly bad in graphic design. How is this always just a tiny reference in any review?! It's a game about running and traversing at high velocities as atrocious pop in happens.
Yeah yeah, all right. To be fair, they had some issues in development with their LOD-making tools or something. Long story short, the platforms and other level props lack LOD models.
i thought the overworld was terrible, but i still think a sonic open world can work. needs a lot more natural pathing for one thing, better overworld missions and mission variety, then a lot more stage variety too. games like steep, riders republic, jet set radio, and tony hawk are good examples of natural pathing in an open space environment. missions and mission variety just need to give the players a goal, a timer, scattered enemies and traps, and allow them the freedom to find best path to reach the goal.
As a Sonic fan, I loved Frontiers to bits. But as someone who plays video games... Yeah it had issues. Not that it was garbage or terrible, it just had issues.
The openness of “from the time I booted up the game to publishing my original video was 82 hours” is great but also, absolutely an objectively awful way to review a game. Proper completion of the game can take up to 22 hours. You factor in sleeping, eating, writing a script, editing and uploading and to say things were rushed is a massive understatement. I among with others I assume, would prefer you take time with reviews rather than rush to trend. That admittance has just made me far less likely to watch your review of a recent release moving forward.
yeah, i feel like when it comes to reviews, it's better to actually give it way more time than just a few days.... rushing like that is more of a "first look", instead of a full review. And no matter how much you like or hate what you're reviewing, that honestly isn't fair. Not expecting a 100% completion, but that still not enough time to mull things over.
@@TheSultan1470 yes you do need more than 30 minutes and 82 hours to speak about a depth review of a 20-30 hour game. You can tell he rushed the game and was playing to finish the game and not really enjoy it because their are aspects that many people enjoyed that he did comment on at all. It's okay if it wasn't his cup of tea but it's on him that couldn't take the time to actually play and experience everything their is to enjoy this game ?
@@whiten4635 Yes, I agree, but the game is very clearly not all that well put together. It's no secret that they are working with a limited budget since Sonic is just a B-brand of SEGA. He's not that popular anyway, in Japan, not at all.
I completely agree with the section on the new update. As hype as it is, the boss rush to the health generating final boss with the vague instructions on what you even need to do along with the environment getting in your way, and the damn camera going all over the place has a lot of confusing and quite frankly, amateurist design choices that just shouldn't be a thing in 2023.
Well, it was obvious that the final battle was crap and poorly explored by devs. But man, they somehow managed to design and even poorer endgame. It's almost unbelievable this level of incompetence. Congratulations to them, I guess.
I gotta disagree with this. While I did prefer that they teach the player how to attack the boss antenna cord and while I wish the parry was better utilized and as much I wished we weren't being blocked by trees, I still think this is most climatic a sonic boss has been. The set pieces were great the animation was really cool and dynamic the music phenomenonal and the ending with sonic going all out was by far one of the most hypest moments in sonic history. I get this boss wasn't everyone's cup of tea but in terms of spectacle, voice acting, presentation this was amazing, my only criticism are things a listed and the boss to have a bit more attacks variety but everything else about the boss and the end game far exceeds what you've seen in most sonic games
I can kinda agree the final boss in dlc 3 may be too vauge on what you’re supposed to do; tho if you talk to the Master King Koco before the boss he can give you hints, but the option only appears if you 100% the map beforehand. I didn’t ask the Koco for hints but it didn’t take me long to figure out what to do on my own. It’s pretty obvious the cord attached to Supreme is what’s giving him health back. What else could it be? Since I knew I could switch targets mid combo with the bumpers from the Knight boss and regular combat, I figured the same applied to attacking cord. The game has you cyloop alot of stuff especially for puzzles; “when in doubt cyloop” is what I go by when I was trying to get Supreme’s gun. Since you haven’t played the game since release till recently I can’t fault you too much for not picking up on all that. A part of me still believes some players are just slow on the uptake, especially since I’ve seen people fail the last qte in the original final boss despite how straightfoward it is.
Sonic Frontiers is honestly one of the best Sonic game to come out since Unleashed. The story was amazing, the characters felt how they were supposed be, and the open world mechanic was very well implemented, and the music was just perfect. The DLC's only improved on these, and fixed the one thing i had a problem with: The ending. And we got Super Sonic 2 out of it. I couldnt have asked for more.
I thought it was never going to age well from the very beginning. Similar to the 1st Sonic movie, it only got high praise because of the abysmally low expectations initially (some fans literally got hyped when they saw Sonic was gonna have idle animations💀just to add context) . Once the games genuinely start getting good and not just "good for Sonic" , I strongly believe there'll be no reason to go back to Frontiers.
Just finished it, I’m on the dlc, and I cant bring myself to like nor hate it. My biggest gripe is wanting to turn some sonic moves off and the spin dash should be default. My biggest take away is the strange urge the islands give me. I roam the islands and cant help but think of how fun it’d be if I had these islands to play around on in SA1.
This game was and still is the definition of Mediocre but the fans ate it up as if it was some masterpiece, people really settle down for any shit as long as it has references to the lore and "it's made for the fans".
Honestly, I see Sonic Frontiers as a stepping stone for the next mainline game. That sounds harsh, but I wholeheartedly agree with your take on the game. It's just okay, which is probably why I dropped the game shortly before the final boss a year ago and contemplate to finish it with the new updates. I feel like it's easy to get blinded by the boss fights as they are hands down the best thing in the game. That's at least why I think some people gave the game such a high score.
Honestly having sliders just feels like the developers didn't know how to make Sonic control themselves, feels amateurish and insecure of them. You don't see Mario doing this, or any other platform. It is a shame...
I don't think you're a party pooper. I don't want to tell anyone what to think about Frontiers, and if there are people who think the game it's perfect, that's great. But I personally thank you, because I didn't like the game either for those same reasons, and for a moment I thought I was going crazy.
Welp that's the sonic fanbase/community (or should I say any fanbase/community out there) for you. Can't say shit without people attacking you bc your opinion is different from theirs (I played frontiers and I said it felt pretty mid imo and I had a whole bunch of people attacking me on twitter bc of that) "GOD MAN" can't say shit anymore.
I feel like people were so desperate for this game to be good after Forces and years of nothing that they simply convinced themselves it's somehow not bad. What a shame...loved the Adventure games, even liked Heroes and Shadow and Secret Rings as a kid, Unleashed was fun for me and Generations at least had nostalgia going for it. But I'm pretty done with the series after this steaming turd.
Sonic adventure 2 battle is not as good as you remember tbh, it has a lot of bugs I bought it again recently it’s a huge mess of a game but I still love it, Sonic frontier is gonna be praised so much in the next few years especially if Sonic has another horrible game like forces
To me, this game is good enough. It certainly could've been better and there's sonic games I definitely like more. However this game did well and thats means sega will probably put more resources into the next game and we could get one of the best sonic games ever.
@TheHutchIsOn as pixel said in the video. This is the most successful sonic game of the past 10 years, and despite its issues. It's a very commendable game, free dlc is hard to find in the gaming industry these days.
"Sega will probably put more resources into the next game" people kept saying that for forces and look how frontiers ended up because of it. The game sold "good enough" but when it came to the general quality it just wasn't there. If we continue to excuse Sega's mediocrity then we'll just be doomed to have bad game's for extended periods of time
@@ashuraomega1000Not really? It didn’t just sell “good enough”. It sold amazingly. The second best selling 3D Sonic Game as a matter of fact. And they definitely tried their hardest with the game, and good enough is what came out. It wasn’t the developers fault, more so the parent company that Sega is. One of Sonic’s co-creators (Takashi) almost got fired for asking for more time, and went though hell to get it. The people behind it are passionate and the game was received amazingly by fans and decently by Critics. It may not be perfect, but it was a major success in all categories both objectively and my eyes :)
Sonic frontiers is one of the worst Sonic games literally the map is a generic unity world building the game has tons of pop ins the world is empty the story is a mess the physics sucks ass and the cut scene animations robotic bad I don’t know how people can enjoy such a repetitive game the game is as bad as ac Valhalla
@@Mike-di3mo not really sonic 3, sonic generations, sonic battle (my fav sonic games) are way better than frontiers even lost world is better (and before you trash on lost world let me tell you this lost world plays well has great level design and good dlcs)
@@ppo1502 I think lost world is fine but reviews compared to sonic frontiers are favored to frontiers you might have a bias but I kind of have a bias for frontiers because it was my frist sonic game, and sonic 2 is one of my fav sonic games. For me it's a 8/10 and lost world is like 7/10
I can definitely agree that Frontiers lacks in some areas and I'm sorry the game didn't turn out the way you want it to, but for me I enjoyed it overall. The spindash and the jump deceleration saved the game for me since even the island's on chaos can be skipped with a well placed spindash. As for final horizon I think the main reason why it came out the way it did was because the new playable characters were not build in mind during the initial development so they had to bring them out as soon as possible. But despite all this the fact that we have all this extra content for free is simply amazing.
I remember when I first got this Frontiers on switch for Christmas last year and I legit couldn’t put down the controller and I played the game for 2 hours straight. The open world felt really good to run through, the missions/side quest are cool and while cyberspace felt weird at first and clunky, you can do some crazy shortcuts if you use Sonic’s momentum and boost to his advantage. And I will still play the cyberspace stages over Every modern and classic Sonic level in forces and I’ll stand by that. I love how the Titans had a good cinematic feel and you can feel the weight behind the attacks Sonic dishes out and the interactions with Tails, Amy and Knuckles really helps this game’s story and the references to games like Adventure and Unleashed bring the story together really well. Sonic Frontiers is a step in the right direction but I will say they can improve on the formula and use for the next game and hopefully they don’t pull a lost world(lost world isn’t a bad game) like they did after Generations and expand on the said formula to give us a better experience overall. And I’m glad this game did well on metacritic so there is actual hope that Sega can still make good Sonic games.
That sounds at least promising. I want to buy sonic frontiers, and I hated sonic forces (while being a long time fan of the series.) So the cyber space levels not being as bad as frontiers is good.
My biggest gripe with the Final Horizon DLC is the final boss. The camera doesn’t always stay on The End, and even when you’re trying to target the cord to disconnect him, it doesn’t always work. Then, you have to cyloop around the gun jammed between his shoulder blades to continue the battle, and if you get hit by an attack after that with less than 100 rings, you automatically die and have to start over. It’s a really unfair boss fight in an otherwise enjoyable game. I blew through the rest of the game in five days and had an absolute blast doing so.
While sonic frontiers isn't my favourite sonic game, the free DLC improved it at least a little bit, and it gave me a reason to play it more, if thats worth anything.
My biggest takeaway from frontiers, ESPECIALLY after update 3, is *potential.* Is it perfect? Not even close. But there's a spark of possibility in what they made here. I'm genuinely hoping overall reception stays positive going forward, because if given the chance to refine this sort of idea, and given more dev time in order to really make it shine, then THAT could be the "next great game" in this franchise. Sonic Frontiers is not the next great game but it needs to succeed because it could BECOME the next great game, if we can keep SEGA from scrapping it.
Great video as always. I love hearing your insights, especially with Sonic games. As for me, I think of Frontiers almost like an awkward, early beta/focus group test of an actually finished Sonic game. A lot of disparate elements (many of them with varying degrees of polish) where some land, some miss, and others fall in-between due to lack of cohesion or fine-tuning. And of course, a load of reused assets, both in levels and animations. Even the DLC updates felt largely like features missing from the base game rather than actual DLC. The one redeeming quality for me, though, was the music! Great stuff there, if little else. I hope Sega can pick up the pieces of the game and really hone in on the handful of things that did work or have potential and deliver a more focused game next time. It's tough because as a Sonic fan, I know we can't even expect to see the fruits of that labor for another few years, at least.
when we consider that this was all free, suddenly we realise why it feels like what it *should* have been than, proper dlc. even if by some it's still underwhelming.
For anyone who thinks J's take on Frontiers is too harsh, just know that there are much more unforgiving reviews like Jimquisition. Also everyone has different opinions and one person's take isn't gospel.
I’m a year late to this conversation, but I’m a little mixed on Frontiers… For the things I appreciate about the game, I liked the music of course, I enjoyed completing the challenges and getting the collectibles as easy as they were, and while I think the story could’ve used a rewrite, I did like the dialogue, the slow pacing, and the sweet moments coming from Sonic and Co. However, the flawed mechanics, horrendous presentation, weightless combat, and the overall blatantly janky gameplay were really difficult to ignore. I haven’t played the DLC because I already returned the game to my local GameStop after beating it. I didn’t see myself wanting to go back to the game again.
Kirby and the forgotten land was more fun than this game. Sonic frontiers is decent enough for me to not throw it in the trash, But not good enough for me to continue past the 2nd island.
Sonic unleashed still the best sonic game. If only they would release another sonic game where you can speed though busy cities and not just making basically empty landscape with a bunch of levitating platforms that exist for no reason.
Hey man, it’s nice that you feel sorry for anyone who was hoping for a different opinion from the last video you made on this game, but you also don’t have to. You are just as much allowed to have an opinion on this game as anyone who likes it (myself included). You have made it very clear in plenty of videos that you never want your opinion to stand over anyone else’s and that is just as apparent even when you don’t say it. It’s just like you said in this video, maybe this game isn’t for you, and that’s ok
Yeah I agree, its important for someone, whether they be just a person trying out a game they don't know much about, to a hardcore fan who's in it for the long haul to always be honest with how they're feeling even if the general consensus thinks differently. Lots of people love Frontiers, J didn't, and that's fine. If anything it's a good thing to see such a convoluted content creator break down exactly what they find lacking in a game so that the next one can find a better balance between doubling down on what worked for people, while also trimming out what didn't for those turned off by the previous installment.
I have a question. So jump momentum has been added right? Does it apply to the drop dash too? I've played the updated game and jump momentum just doesn't work for the drop dash. Is there something I'm missing? Is there a specific way jump momentum needs to be added to it?
It's great that people love this. I don't. It's a poor poor game, and it seems almost unfinished. Crappy level design, open World stuff sucks, the cyber levels are just your usual "press pne direction and press jump" bs we've had since Sonic Advance 2. I wish Sega would stop using Sonic Team, they haven't made a good game for a very good time. Superstars was bland too.
it's really interesting to see such a different perspective because I truly love Sonic Frontiers and had a lot of fun with it, but I can definitely understand not everyone would feel the same way. My favourite Sonic game is Sonic Adventure 2 and honestly Frontiers gets really close to making me feel as happy as SA2 does, plus i just love that it feels like a blend of the boost and adventure formula to a degree.
For the most part I agree with the criticisms. The only fundamental difference with our perceptions of the game is whether or not what does exist, highly flawed or not, still can be fun. I believe it is, albeit it does become excrutiateingly repetitive at one point or another and the DLC does little to change that even if it is a bit more challenging/free in terms of traversal (admitedly I have not done Sonic's portion, which is the one that has been criticized for its difficulty so we will see). Seemingly, there is nothing about the gameplay loop you enjoy in contrast. Indeed, the automation gets under your skin the more you play the game and this does need changing going forward for me to continue to find enjoyment, but I'm not sure improving upon the repetitiveness and making collectibles less automated (which is a big part of what makes it repetitive) would change your mind much. This is unfortunate seeing as Sega has confirmed that this will be the template moving forward. They may do a better job with actual stages, boss battles, etc and (hopefully) steer away from hyper realism and create open worlds more fitting of early Sonic, so there could be some fun for you to have. But there will always be fundamental design choices you won't be able to get behind.
I'm totally with you J. As a massive Sonic fan this game disappointed me on every level. The open world feels like a developer's gameplay test stage. The story feels like it was written, recorded and animated in one week. The whole package just feels mailed in. I can't believe people are praising this as a step in the right direction when it has none of the charm, innovation or creativity of Sonic games 20 years ago. I honestly hope Sonic Team goes back to trying to remake the Adventure games because I've almost given up on them making an interesting 3D game ever again.
I’ve put nearly 54 hours into Sonic Frontiers, i finished the main game after 27 hours, i reached the final tour in the final horizon update and tried to beat the challenge and stopped because of how hard it is,i really tried to like the game, i dont hate it thats for sure but i dont like it either. I agree with everything you said about the game so far your review is the most honest reviews of this game i’ve seen so far.
Though it is a heavily flawed game, I still enjoyed Sonic Frontiers for how fun it is to explore the islands, the fun Boss Fights against the Titans, and the story. As for the game's 2 endings, I personally feel like since they both accomplish the same outcome of Supreme and The End being defeated and Sage's fate, it kind of feels like they're considered a matter of preference as to which one you liked more than the other.
Sonic Frontiers is a good $30 game that they unfortunately launched at AND STILL CURRENTLY IS $60. At this point, it's a good game to pick up on sale for $10 (66% off) but again, sega overpriced which changes the perspective of how we are supposed to look at the game by.
For some reason game companies NEED every single game to be $60 regardless of length or quality unless it's a collection of ports (and even then only sometimes) or an indie title. (which are usually around $20-$30) Why can't we go back to the SNES days of game prices being variable based on production costs and/or general quality and content? On the SNES you could get shovelware crap like Jelly Boy $5 NEW while expensive games to produce like Mega Man X2 were $120 new. Now the "standard price" has been raised to $70 and it just sucks for the minimum wage working class who still makes the same amount of money ($12 an hour) they did in 2013 at the beginning of the PS4's life when the price first went up to $60.
@@KrimsonKattYTI'm just surprised that it's a year later and the game has YET to get a price drop. Like, wtf. I been against pirating my games for the longest time. . . but with the state of the world right now (economically in the USA anyways) and how these companies are pricing their games. . . I am struggling to morally support the industry anymore. And I am a huge believer in voting with your wallet. I can't afford to vote anymore AND I don't even agree with the price points anyways even if I might agree in wanting to support a product to get a sequel.
I'm glad you are not afraid to say you don't like the game and thus criticize it. Frontiers to me feels more forgettable than Forces, and it feels surreal when everyone keeps boot-licking this game.
I can tell J was very regretful writing this review but honestly, it's how I feel about the game in earnest. I don't have fun with this game and I'm sorry, like I want to enjoy it and I hoped it'd be good especially after the Final Horizon update; but no. This game disappoints me and I feel disappointed to feel that way as I like this franchise, I want sonic to succeed; but this game does not leave me with much hope for the games to cone honestly.
I feel like the way the spindash is implemented is way too extreme. It does make it fresh and fun for a bit but after a while you kinda realise that most of the places you previously had to be somewhat creative to reach can now be reached with an easy press of a button. Where you previously had to get a small ledge to enter trick state then double jump and r1 sideways to reach you now just ... spindash and it gets you there easily, where you had to find a rail to jump from and carry its momentum you now spindash. It is way too strong and way too versatile and it takes away the need to aproach different scenarios in different ways.
It's surprising just how divided Sonic fans are right now. It's either the forced positivity mindset like you see all over Twitter where if you dare to criticize the current mediocre quantity over quality approach SEGA is taking, terminally online teenagers will verbally assault you. And then on the other hand is the realist, exhausted older fans like what's common on UA-cam, takes like yours and Pariah695's, where we only care about the official products because they're official, and we're much more interested in the fan works because fans have time and passion whereas SonicTeam has... passion and that's it, aided by a budget of $7 and a year to make a game because SEGA Sammy sees no value in anything that isn't Yakuza or pachinko machines. And Sonic sells like crazy anyways regardless of quality so why even try? It IS exhausting, and seeing so many other younger fans defending these shitty practices and continuing to support SEGA Sammy's "who gives a shit" approach to Sonic and SonicTeam's equally damning "make everything super ambitious oops we ran out of time lol" poor planning, makes it all much worse. I'm 100% with you dude, official Sonic stuff is neat to look at, but I'm far more interested in the fan content.
"Maybe Jack & Daxter had more resources put into it than Frontiers... which would be sad." It's not unlikely; SEGA seems like they just doesn't care anymore; Sonic is their cash cow, regardless of the quality people are going to buy a Sonic game. Which rings a sad truth, unfortunately. Iizuka begged SEGA for another month of polishing Frontiers and was almost fired for it. Whether he actually got that extra month I've no idea, but all of these things you're pointing out... well, that's a deliberate choice from SEGA because they simply do not give a fuck about creating a good or polished Sonic game anymore. Not since Generations - and Generations only works so well because of its stunning level design and replayability; the characters and stories are trash. So, if I had to point to the last GREAT Sonic game... I'd probably go Unleashed and Unleashed suffered from it coming out so soon after 06 and getting the brunt end of reviews that it objectively didn't deserve. (I don't pick Colours because Colours REALLY haven't aged well and it had trash characters that started the whole "quip machine and no personality" shtick. Colours symbolises the start of a decline in Sonic quality for me, not the peak of it.) In any case. The only good thing I can say about Frontiers is its characters and its story - but mostly its characters. I love the character interactions and I would say that, objectively, yeah, they are a little boring but I am STARVED for Sonic characters ACTUALLY GETTING TO ACT LIKE PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONS that I am just over the moon on this. And I'm afraid I can but attribute this to Ian because any other writer was going to mess this up spectacularly. And Ian only got to write the dialogue, he didn't write the story scenario, he was just told to write the dialogue surrounding this specific story and he did well, I'd say, considering all the restrictions he likely faced while writing everything. I say this because I'm honestly afraid that SEGA will just go, "Eh, whatever," and not care AGAIN about their mascots acting like actual characters and, GODS, anything but that, Colours through Forces was abhorrent and just BUTCHERED the characters! If they decide to keep Ian writing the dialogue then halle-fucking-lujah, these characters need proper love from people who actually gives a shit. But again... the characters (and story) can only do so much to remedy a rushed game. Because I agree, Sonic Frontiers is sooo booooring! I have ADHD and I lasted until the unmapping of Ares Island because the gameplay was so repetitive and... just... not fun. I have resorted to watching all the cutscenes of this game and uncaring of the gameplay or boss fights or, whatever, which is a freaking first but the gameplay is just THAT BORING. And I just don't think SEGA is EVER going to turn back to greenlighting polished Sonic games again, especially not with their whole AI game engine they're working on and which is planned to release in 2026 :/
"I've heard rumours that Sonic Team apparently consists of only, like, 12-18 employees NIGGA WHAT😭😭😭 Where did you even get these numbers from!! Frontiers original credits had around 200+ development staff (44 of which were programmers. BOTW had 40, btw) listed in total, and Iizuka himself generally stated in an interview last year that the "main" staff of Sonic Team encompassed around 60 people. what a facebook-ass "rumor", like WHAT LMAO
I KNEW IT the sonic fandom was on copium the whole time i always thought this game wasnt that good, the environment, combat, platforming, and animations were reallllly underwhelming but sonic fans couldnt accept that after forces and lost world we got another game that wasnt as good as even generations, when your game is called "a step in the right direction" you know its not that great of a game
even though I found some enjoyment in the game this did not deliver i didn't wait 5 years for this is a step in the right direction or the next could be better this is heavily assuming sega would build off there pillars which history has shown they have a chuck it in the bin mindset.
“Good as generation” you mean the game where you can get through most of green hill by holding boost button ?The way some fans praise unleashed and generations so hard then shit on frontiers amazes me.
Having played Penny’s Big Breakaway and being reminded what Sonic should be focusing on, I’m soured on Frontiers big time. I don’t care if Sonic feels like the most Uber epic adventure with AAA graphics and tons of hours of content. I want a game that focuses on 1. Letting people play the game and not being loaded with automation and on rails crap. 2. Being freeing with the movement options and level design. Stop with the excessive 2D sections in a 3D game. Stop with the hyper linear “challenges.” 3. If they’re continuing to go open world, keeping the gameplay focused on physics and exploration, not button mashing combat and tower climbs because BotW is popular. 4. Not making the epic moments into QuickTime events. That’s not gameplay. Between Frontiers ignoring the series’ identity, Origins and Colors Ultimate being rushed, and Superstars’ problems, I’m done until Sega creates a smash hit. The series had a better run than many would give it credit for, but Sega clearly doesn’t care about its workers or their games’ quality anymore.
Ngl atleast these games are better then the games we got in mid 2010s. Like super stars and frontiers are good, and the others where pretty rushed. All im saying is they are definitely improving.
Wait, THAT'S what they changed the final boss too? From how people kept describing it as superior i thought it was something much more significance. Like a super sonic vs some alian monster inside the end in a cage match.
When I think about it I wonder they couldn't have faced off on the moon and have Sonic try to find places there to disconnect The End with Supreme...I will say I did like Sage being alive again but it wasn't clear why the timeline changed (although frankly the Sage death in the original ending seems forced IMO).
Im gonna be completey honest i only got this because it was on sale and I fully expected this to be a waste of 26 dollars And i have fucking loved this game yeah theres problems but besides a few roaming bosses a single zone and the last boss i didnt have much worth complaining about I really felt like i was playing somic adventure for the very first time again
With the story of Frontiers there was a chance to do something with Tails, what with him saying about a Shadow Self who is the nagging voice of doubt, pouring poison into the fox cub's ear. Saying he's just a lackey who can't do anything by himself. Surely with this interesting subplot they've brought up they're bound to do something with it, where Tails get the chance to face down his Shadow Self and regain his lost confidence, right? Nope. Outside of its initial mention, its never brought up again. But wait! The Final Horizon is just over... the horizon, and it promises to "rewrite the story." Surely this time, now that Tails is actually playable, they will use the Shadow Self in a meaningful way, where maybe we'll play as Sonic's friends as they look to save his soul and bring him back after the cyber corruption, with the Shadow Self being the final obstacle for Tails to overcome, right... right...? Nope. There is no playing through saving Sonic's soul as Sonic's friends, as the cyber corruption still the same old blink and you miss it with it being basically "actually its going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience." Plus the sacrifice from Sonic's friends is kinda rendered pointless, due to how quickly they're brought back, making you wonder, why Sage didn't do that from the start. And while the Shadow Self is an antagonist in the game, its only for Sonic to race against, despite having no narrative connection to it, and the Shadow Self has about as much impact to the overall story as Metal does in Colors Ultimate. Zero. Tails does not once encounter or battle the very embodiment of his self doubt, in the Final Horizon. Why did they even make mention of this Shadow Self if they weren't actually going to do anything with it. It could have actually made Frontiers' story interesting, instead of it being a total snooze fest.
No, don't apologize J. You did nothing wrong. You didn't like the game, and still don't and that's perfectly fine. The only people that should be apologizing are the ones that chose to be mad at you and this review for no reason. The game has become insanely overrated anyways, and the only reason why many are hyping up this game is because it's a "Good step in the right direction". Even though people also said that about Colors and Generations and they didn't guarantee a bright future for Sonic. Just like how the Adventure and Advance games didn't make any promises ether. And Sega is still making stupid decisions with this franchise like Colors ultimate, rushing the developers for origins and making apple exclusive Sonic games.
If I may be honest, the main issue for Sonic games has always been SEGA's ego, particularly their top management. Even back in Adventure 2, SEGA was a crumbling empire, having just killed off its console division and nearly going into bankruptcy. That iconic game only had about 11 people working on it including Iizuka, and let's not forget how he worked himself to the bone, losing sleep and weight to finish Sonic Heroes' levels on time. The behind-the-scenes story of Sonic 06 and Secret Rings needs no elaboration. All of this leads me to believe Iizuka is just a few steps away from being done altogether with this franchise, and seeing how he literally gave portions of his life to complete these games, I wouldn't blame him. The blue blur desperately needs a new home and a new team of developers, one with fresh ideas and a passion for the franchise equal to Ian Flynn's, an undisputed Sonic mega-fan.
@@Camo720 Nah hes just like that in all of his videos lmao. His criticisms are well constructed and conveyed but I don't think the attitude in his voice is very entertaining. Its like he is genuinely depressed. Its very boring
@@Camo720maybe is just the disappointment that SEGA took five years to make this garbage beta of a game the same way we were all pissed at forces I we ask is for SEGA to bring quality games like generations and sonic rush they kinda nail it with Sonic Superstars for some reason SEGA Only knows how to make good 2D games but not 3D
I haven’t played the new D.L.C. It’s fun to run around, but interacting with the surroundings is annoying as when Sonic runs and it’s something, he just flies and it’s annoying. I think the islands looked good, the first and I guess second island was kind of fun…but it’s meh to me, it’s they’re just an islands with automatic platforms that don’t belong to that area and are in every island. This game is fun, but I don’t feel like I want to go back to it. And I hate that I have to do all challenges (forgot what they’re called) in all islands just to unlock a move that should’ve been in its released. (11:17) Whenever someone mentions F.N.A.F in a Sonic video, I’m just reminded of SplashDash cause he does that too from time to time.
I’m glad someone else shares my opinion on this game because all the problems with the gameplay and story come together to make this game extremely mid for me and I’m pretty terrified of sega using THIS as the basis for making new 3d sonic games for the next decade. I’m so tired of people blindly defending this game by saying it’s a good first step like they haven’t been saying that for the last 3 games 😔
I don’t think it sucked at all but it definitely had room for improvement
Pretty much every game has room for improvement though...
@@LeadMe2TheBlissthis isn’t a rebuttal. You can improve everything sure, but things of worse quality will obviously be less enjoyable than something better.
@@bruv.2214 I will hold my final judgement until I get the chance to complete this game.
@@LeadMe2TheBliss fair enough, I haven’t played it myself either. But I don’t think it’s too bad, just it could’ve used some polishing on the animations and camera. I’d wait for the game to go on sale before playing it though but overall I can see why someone would enjoy it.
@@bruv.2214 exactly
Unlike Sonic Forces, I hope we see another game like Frontiers. I think this is the type of game I would want to buy and play. Sega needs to put more resources into Sonic games at this point because it's getting really sad seeing how low budget these games are.
I agree. I've heard the team will be getting a bigger budget thanks to the success of Frontiers, but I'll believe it when I see it. Despite the game's financial success, Sega had a lot of financial ruin to wade through after the failure of Boom and I'm not sure how much they've recovered since then.
Mania did well, Frontiers did well, and Forces TECHNICALLY did well since it cost zilch to make.
I actually liked Forces tbh
@applesaretasty2731 I tried to play it, and to this day, I've never finished the game. The controls are horrible.
@@TheShapeshifter
You would not like Secret Rings then.
Forces is actually something I want more of in concept, just better than what we actually got.
After finishing The Final Horizon, I went to finish a play through of Unleashed that I had on the back burner. And as I was playing the final boss against Perfect Dark Gaia, it made me miss something I didn’t realise was missing in Frontiers’ bosses: the dialogue.
A lot of the older games had characters talking during the Super Sonic bosses, and they not only added to the atmosphere, but also explained how to beat the bosses in case some players found it unclear. Frontiers lacked this and I think that was a big mistake. They should definitely be added back in the future imo.
I have a hunch the lack of Boss battle dialogue is because of a knee jerk reaction from Forces' poor reception
@@Wow1wthat, or they're afraid of "IT LOOKS LIKE A HOMING SHOT"
Edit: That being said, I agree that the final boss would have benefited heavily from it due to how obtuse it can seem for those not knowing (or use better checkpoints and not force you to redo base Supreme)
The dialogue during the last fight in sonic and the black knight so GOATED. Part of the issue with Sonic Frontiers is the type of bosses they chose. In prior sonic titles, enemy bosses are Characters in their own right. These just aren't.
@@gnomefrompinkerton XD
@@gnomefrompinkerton the only boss like that was Generations where they literally had nothing of value to say, besides "WOAH SONIC WATCH OUT!!"
Trust me the most useful attack in frontiers is the stomp, it cuts through the cutscene attacks and it’ll slams through there hp
Anyone else think he should drop the clickbaity titles? I prefered the older more genuine and straightforward titles that made you want to watch the video for the "how come?" or "why?" instead of the "does it?"
Well he did seem to go back to them but now it's mixed with genuine and straightforward
Honestly, yeah.
Wouldn't that defeat the point of a review? People wouldn't even watch it then. They would see it as "a video by a HATER" and refuse to watch it. But the criticisms in the video are valid and should be heard.
Despite loving Frontiers a lot, I won't deny that the tower climbs in The Final Horizon made me rage to a shocking degree. I was baffled to say the least, and then the final boss happened and I was clueless on what to do. By the time I defeated it and saw the new ending, I felt completely hollow. My feelings have softened a bit since then, and I realize some people actually wanted Frontiers to be a lot harder, and they definitely got what they were asking for, but I was so relieved to discover that Easy mode lets you cheese those towers and have a longer parry in those later challenges, because wow.
Clearly this video wasn't easy for you to make, but I really appreciate that you went through with it, because I honestly had no idea whether you would feel better or worse about the game overall after the updates, and was very curious to hear your thoughts. You raised a lot of great points in this video, regardless of how I feel about Frontiers personally.
Parry: Hold my beer
A lot of people complaining about the difficulty of the DLC are forgetting that it was completely FREE. It's all optional content that you aren't required to engage with to complete the game. I was happy to finally have a difficult Sonic challenge
@@damiensharp2138You're still allowed to criticize it
@@JoshuaRamsey765 I just think the level of criticism you can do is lower on the grounds that you weren’t charged for it
@@damiensharp2138 Not at all. You can have the opinion that the DLC content should have been part of the base game, because the base game was not worth $60 in your opinion, for instance. Then what? Are you not allowed your opinion despite this? There is no floor and no ceiling for what does or does not allow for criticism.
am i going insane or is the game HEAVILY chugging in this videos footage every few minutes? like holy christ that looks horrendous and im surprised nobody else has mentioned it in the comments so far
Literally never seen that in any other review or gameplay of this game, what was that supposed to be?
PS5 can't keep up, gotta get a pc
@@Hugo-yz1vbProb his capture card. Not that big of a deal
@@squiddyword7224 Makes sense, but still, kinda weird that the only one I've seen so far was this one in particular
I've never agreed with something I disagree with more than this. Coming from somebody whos completed the game 3 times, I think all your gripes with the game are valid and things I don't like myself (like the parry). I still think the game is fun though, and I've enjoyed the first two updates thoroughly.
I feel the same way. I still really enjoyed Frontiers yet I can't disagree with most of his points. I think the things I agree with and disagree with are so mixed together in this video that it makes it difficult to pinpoint each of them in his points.
@@GordanTheToad It just comes down to liking some things that are not that good kind of like how someone can just love a bad movie.
7:50 unsure if dmc5 carries this over but higher style rankings in the dmc games always made your moves and combos stronger, not only is it an aesthetically pleasing design choice, it's that it actually rewards the player by making their attacks more effective
Higher style rankings also yield more red orbs which lets you buy more upgrades.
Pretty sure this was only a thing in dmc3 and it only affected the crazy combos, which were awful to even pull off after an hour of play.
That was only dmc 3
14:33 This scene literally screams "I'm a first year film student in a big project" xd
As someone who has studied film I can confirm 😂
I've never felt so disconnected with the Sonic community than with this game LOL. It's so hard for me to call this game so much as 'decent' when I know Sonic games can be, and have been, significantly better than this in one way or another. But it's been so long, fans just don't remember or don't have that experience with some of the older titles. This game has a ton of spectacle and that's a very important ingredient in a Sonic game, but it's almost completely lacking the substance underneath. The loops of gameplay are either incompetently put together or totally shallow.
Same here. It's not like people are wrong for liking this game, but I'm so baffled by how people are calling this game "peak fiction" or "one of the best Sonic Games" when so much of the game is just straight up garbage imo. If this is really the best that Sonic has to offer to this fandom, then it just makes me sad that we've forgotten about the quality of the old games.
Right, it makes me think these people weren't around when Sonic games were consistently on the roll 20 years ago. I got to experience it, and it was great! But in the last 10 years, with the long periods of waiting for the next Sonic game, with the exception of Sonic Mania, I've grown apathetic on every entry. I really don't know. Maybe I just don't vibe with Sonic anymore.
It pains me to agree, but this is exactly how I feel about the game looking back. This game in concept gets some parts right, but in execution it does a lot of it poorly. I hope that going forward we get something that reflects the AAA intention that unleashed provided, but that's another 5ish years waiting and that hurts to say.
I have to agree.
Agreed 100% I’m glad people are enjoying it as much as they are, but I can’t call it a great game. I can’t recommend it. It’s more of a guilty pleasure for me since there’s a lot that I liked but way more that I disliked.
This sums up my thoughts exactly. Sega says they want Sonic to surpass Mario, but they won't be able to do that with their subpart polished games.
As much as people like me don't want to accept it I completely agree with you
@@3moctezumaboys thats the meaning of "mid"
"Comparing Sonic to other games isn't fair!"
Lol Sonic fans really are something else
"Comparing Sonic to other games isn't fair!" is definitely wrong. I think a more accurate description is this:
Many of the things criticized in certain Sonic games such as simplicity, repetition, hazard placement, puzzles, and lack of visual cohesion consistently appear in other platformers with a vengeance. For example, the dinosaurs at Nintendo refuse to let Mario evolve yet they have such a hold on the industry that critics keep meatriding them like, "It's a simple formula, but it works!" Yet whenever Sonic tries anything new like adding a few different moves to use on different types of enemies, critics are "polarized." It's almost like Sonic, compared to other platformers, has an unfair expectation to constantly be a trailblazer because of how revolutionary the classics were. Yet with something painfully unoriginal like Sonic 4 where level design and combat rely heavily on spamming the Homing Attack, critics call it a "return to form," as if any games they made in between have nothing of merit. Game journalists also can't stop getting off on mentioning '06, as if Sonic still needs redemption 18 years after that. It's perfectly fair to compare Sonic to other games, but game journalism in general is a joke.
@@LorenzoDoesntExist yeeaaah I'm not gonna read another unhinged rant by a delusional Sonic fan
@@Howitchewstofeel5gum ??
Not even disagreeing with you dude. Someone's delusional for sure...
@@LorenzoDoesntExist ok
@@Howitchewstofeel5gum no worries, man
It still boggles my mind that the basic movement parameters have sliders. Sure, this helps people figure out the movement that they like best, but they shouldn't need to. That's the point of designing a game: you design it. And that's all of it since its different components have to interact and play well together. If there's such a disparity in being able to move around the map as requiring sliders for acceleration, then the map just isn't designed well. It's one thing to have sliders for FOV and sensitivity -- the physical, IRL ability to control how the game responds to your inputs -- but how fast you move?
Ross Scott pointed out in his most recent video that a lot of game criticism gets bogged down with criticizing the low hanging fruit that isn't really the problem. Sliders aren't inherently a problem, and it's good to give players more deftness to their ability to control the playable character. But the bigger -- deeper -- issue is why that needs to be done for such fundamental movement parameters in a game series where momentum and map design encouraging building skill with fast pace, appealing movement. If you had to provide sliders in Sonic The Hedgehog or Sonic Adventure 1/2 for their speed and acceleration, you would break the game. And that's not breaking it in the way speedrunners do and people routinely praise Sonic games for letting you do. You'd either have settings too low to allow you to actually complete levels without many, many more automated sections, or you have settings too high to actually control Sonic in a way that makes the levels feasible without constantly stopping to regain control. Yet this isn't really an issue in Frontiers, because the map isn't really built with Sonic's movement in mind. The map just is and Sonic's movement just is; they weren't designed together.
And this is the same issue with the new update. We can debate final boss or ending is better, but that's not really the issue. The developers shouldn't be able to do that. And that isn't to say they should be barred from doing it, but that it should break the design of the game. The entire game led up to that point and supposedly was designed with some sort of goal in mind, both for the concluding gameplay and the story's conclusion. Maybe these were the dueling ideas for where they game was going and the team never pinned it down to a single creative direction. Maybe it's a retcon based on critical reception and the original wasn't actually all that important. Either way, the design was never finished or (worse) done in the first place.
Sonic Team has done some amazing games in the past, and designed games that fundamentally changed aspects of gaming, taking on (And briefly eclipsing, IMO) their rival of choice, Mario. It's just so painful seeing them not able to succeed anymore, and I kind of wish I hadn't learned about the Sammy-Sega merger, because it explains too much of what's happened over the years while being just cynically mercenary in the worst sense (Moon Channel's video on "Why Sega isn't Overprotective of Their Intellectual Property?", if you want to know more).
Giving people options is nice. It's not laziness or lack of design, it's what people on PC would have done anyway so it let's everyone have fun, the point of gaming.
The only problem is, even if it was good, people who hate Sonic for seemingly no reason would still bitch about it.
I think it's there just to shut them up
I mean, even some RPG games have difficulty settings that change enemy stats or even their AI. It's more to accommodate as many players as they can.
Without it, it comes down to a whole "git gud" dynamic which is honestly degrading. Plus there's the age range of the audience too. Sega is making it a point to ensure kids can enjoy sonic too, so settings for making things easier or harder is already a good step.
however, if things are TOO easy, then it's an issue. I can understand why a lot complained that the base game was too easy, but sega's attempt at making it harder in the final horizon also sucked cause of a suddenly HUGE spike along with things already being pretty cryptic.
You have no experience with Sonic fans and their opinions if you unironically believe there could ever be a one size fits all solution to how Sonic is supposed to move. This is something that gives everyone what they want, and what that is, is not the same between two people. Context matters.
I feel like the Frontiers design could work PERFECTLY if it was done in a city, or cities. In Unleashed you go from continent to continent, this could work with Frontiers.
If Sonic Team comes out with a Frontiers 2 turn it into a world adventure.
It honestly just feels like a modern adventure field. Put in NPCs with mini quests and other goodies and it's the same thing. I just think the series needs a slightly increased budget and is allowed to actually cook for as long as it needs. Because that's the main faults I see.
It's funny to me that in November of 2022, both Sonic frontiers in pokémon Scarlet & Violet released to a magnitude amount of issues, bugs and overall questionable game design decisions and yet, the approach both games had gone to try to redeem themselves were completely different.
Frontiers may not be as terrible or 'absolute peak fiction' as what people on the internet like to claim it is, but I will at least be grateful that despite how little time and more importantly, _budget_ Sega granted their devs with (along with threatening to fire the director too simply for asking for a delay), Sonic Team really tried to improve their game in several fronts from quality of life features, different control schemes, and straight up new content plus mechanics that add more to the overall experience all for free.
One sought to try their players back with core improvements to their game, focusing on its weaker elements, while the other simply charged their consumers another season pass where they go to a secluded area completely separate from the main game where they just do the same thing that people are tired of for the last few decades. Also all the bugs, glitches and performance issues for Pokemon have not been addressed either because _we gotta get that bread am I right?_
And while I would say Sonic Team didn't quite fully succeed in making the final product as great as it could've been, for the first time in a long time, I can actually say that I have hope for the future of this franchise.
I just wish the light I see at the end of the table is not another Red Herring where Sega ignores all the feedback for this one, pivots, and chugs out yet another completely different gameplay style that nobody asked for🤦♀️
I agree with you completely but an issue is nobody is ever satisfied with sonic games saying calling it mid is generous like sonic adventure 1 and 2 came out everyone said it was bad but now a days it's a masterpiece cos everything else is bad I like sa 2 not so much sa1 but Sega stops listening to feed back cos it's not constructive criticism at some points it's just criticism for example sonic frontiers could have been better they did free dlc spoke to fans fixed main issues and people still find 500 things wrong with it and when Sega bins the idea suddenly sonic frontiers was an amazing game why did they chuck it people always want "improvements" but never say what they are just expects Sega to know it's like a toxic couple that can't talk to each other
In reality people just bash on sonic and praise Mario even Mario wonder I think it's cool but it's not the Mona Lisa of Mario it's just a 2.5D adventure and everyone treats it like it's the best game ever it's creative sure but it isn't so incredibly revolutioninary to just give it a crown it's just new super Mario bros with upgrades and sonic superstars is almost the same thing but no Mario's better cos it's Mario so I'm sad sonic isn't beloved but people have rights to there opinion but don't bash games that aren't that horrible a 7 out of 10 is a perfect score fore this game and let it be don't over hype other games and compare them to games that can just stay safe I mean Mario had more time and budget for his games while sonic gets rushed but if it's a 7 let it be a 7 don't force it to be a 3 cos Mario was 10 anyway apologies for me splurging out with opinions and I just wanted to say I agree
I still think base frontiers is the better game for at least making attempts to change for the sake of an open world game while pokemon SV is just the same game but you can play it in any order as if winking to the people complaining about the linearity of games gen 5 onward
Ok, I can understand most of this, but Frontiers and SV were nowhere NEAR on the same level when it comes to bugs and issues.
@@adinsh3102sa1 and sa2 were reviewed very well at launch. It was only when the broken ports of them came out as well and heroes shadow and 06 back to back that the opinion changed. They did very well originally
frankly the most interesting thing to expect out of frontiers for me is if some madman redesigns all the open zones to have challenges and structures that fit the area instead of just being floating rails and springs
I just dont like frontiers. All the people who say "its the best sonic game" give answers that are most likely in other sonic games (normally the adventures) and overlook all the glitches and things. Something as simple as the pop in makes the game look pathetic and beyond last gen. I don't really understand the praise, and I can already see someone replying to this saying "but its got a story" or "but the characters do more than forces". The only reason I see people say that for is because its better than forces. Which it is. But that isnt a high bar to reach.
people say its the best sonic game because its the game they find most fun simple as that, of course in terms of polish its not near the best sonic game, but its for sure the right direction for the series
Maybe SA shares some of the things in frontiers people like about it, but maybe that’s why they like it, Sonic gameplay similar to SA games, except unlike the SA games there isn’t insane amounts of terrible bonus crap like mech shooting with cheap traps and linear slow platforming, or treasure hunting stages that last half an hour to a whole hour long on average, people keep telling me SA2 is the best Sonic game, but I absolutely despise it, and can’t understand why people like it so much, similar to your statement on frontiers.
While I do agree that the characters are well done, the story itself is not why I like the game: I hate the lore it brings up, and I've yet to finish the DLC because of the insane difficulty spike of the boss rush, but ultimately I love this game because for all of its flaws, (and there are quite a few) and for all of the internal debate about whether or not I love it as much as I think I do, this is the kind of game that you boot up, start a new save file, tool around and rapidly realize that your complaints have melted away because the game is ridiculously fun. It's fun, and the movement is amazing (excluding cyberspace), and it feels just GOOD to run around in. It's like the addicting satisfaction of starting up Marvel's Spider-Man for PS4 just to swing around and enjoy yourself. It's not traditional, and there ARE missteps, and I don't want to revisit the Starfall Islands or the somewhat dull artstyle, but it IS unique to the franchise and I DO love it a lot.
I just like exploring these islands. It's a large, open area that gives me the most gratifying example of Sonic's trademark speed that it shocks me it wasn't thought of in the first place. Sure, blazing past linear levels is always a good time, but having a large landscape that I'm plopped down into, and told to just dick around in with the world's most hyperactive blue meerkat gives me such a giddy feeling.
Sonic frontiers is still a great game, it’s not the best, but it’s great for its Open World exploration, the Combat moves are super fun to use & the bosses are a blast, and there’s plenty of post game content to try.
Copium. You should be looking for a better game than a tech demo.
Ok...?
Lots of room for improvement, but I had fun overall. The Titans are some of.my favorite things to happen in a Sonic game. Hopefully Sega finds a way to perfect this formula.
@@CaptainFalcon333 Good thing that's not what Frontiers is
@@CaptainFalcon333 they not even coping, just they're opinion
This game may not be perfect, but it's still a great Sonic game and a step up for the future of the franchise moving forward.
imo it’s my favorite sonic game, along with 3&K, SA2, and I would say the other one but you’d strangle me. But im glad im not the only one who really enjoys this game.
@@Sunflower_SM64don’t tell me it’s forces
@@rfh9560 honestly forces wasnt necessarily a *bad* game. If sega had been more keen on making it less automated lol and had the stages been a couple minutes longer that would have been a great game. Maybe the story through speech bubble thing that was probably the thing that really made that game a D class title.
@@rfh9560 ew wtf no it’s 06
@@Sunflower_SM64 its your favorite sonic game because its the best sonic game period. Sonic mania and sonic frontiers are the pinnacle of 2D and 3D sonic respectively.
The only people that didnt think sonic frontiers was a great game was the "sonic was never good" meat heats. Frontiers was a love letter to fans.
Honestly... being able to play as Amy, Knuckles, and Tails was the only legitimately fun part of the DLC. And that was entirely because once you fully upgrade all of their abilities they can literally FLY across the map, making it really fun just because of their ridiculous mobility. You can basically skip most of their puzzles because of this... which is fine by me because getting the reward is the only fun part of doing said puzzles.
The Trials were just awful, and very unintuitive. The towers you had to climb were unforgiving on any difficulty other than easy. The titan boss rush was HORRIBLE because the bosses are so janky and weren't designed with the perfect parry in mind. And worst of all, what could have been an epic finally with a new Super form was bogged down by the horrible camera, janky mechanics they never told you about (pressing the trigger to switch targets to take out the purple wire), and a rather repetitive counter attack animation.
I think everyone agrees the game lacks polish including the DLC. Even though the characters handle well for the most part, there are still random jerks and weird hit detection or things of that nature depending upon your speed, how close you are to objects, etc. Sega, Sonic Team, what have you have been notoriously bad when it comes to this, even with the mostly considered "good" 3D games such as SA1 and 2. Sonic has never had a non-janky 3D outing, though it varies in degree depending upon the title. It would be a literal shock to the system, like actually frozen in awe for a moment, if they ever did release a truly Nintendo-esque quality polished product.
@@PathBeyondTheDark So true. Sonic games are _always_ janky in one way or another. It doesn't help that Frontiers was rushed in its initial release.
@@PathBeyondTheDarkIf Sega continues to rush development teams, that'll never happen.
i disagree with some (most) of this, specially isnce most of these complains can be explained with the fact that the DLC was obviously designed with players that played the base game to death, but, i find it really funny when people point out the target switching thing, when its pretty much only said in the first encounter with ninja, and it is used (optionally) during the entire game :)))
@@Abykitty06 Most of my complaints were about how janky it was. And up until they updated with a patch, the DLC was hard even on easy mode, which was my biggest gripe with it.
Like i said it's just a mid Sonic game. It's not anything to write home about that Sonic fanboys are making it be. Wait you'll get called an "Adventure or 2D shill" for not kissing ass to this game. I hate the Sonic community so much.
Ngl though I feel like people are being a bit harsh about this game, but I see why.
Yeah, i think this is more so a subjective "it just didnt work for me" kinda video, which of course is perfectly valid. There is no point about discussing this game or really the whole future of official games when it seems most people made up their mind, you included. Now I can just anticipate you to review a series I think most people enjoy, that being the 2012 TMNT. On a quick side note, appreciate you admitting the whole Frontiers vid being rushed. Takes balls to admit that.
Personally, I agree with him, I have the same issues, we’ll I’m only focused on the gameplay.
That's literally what reviews are....wdyem 😭
@@precieux6303ong sonic dickriders are retarded
Many of the things he mentions in this video are literally just objective. The combat especially.
Mostly everything he said is pretty objective though. Combat is clunky and button mashy and having an infinite parry is ridiculous. Game does look like a PS3 game as well, and you can't really argue against the bad constant pop-out, that's an objective flaw.
Overall, it's not a bad game, but there's a decent room for improvement. At least I can see the skeleton of a great game, hopefully we can get all the improvements in the next Sonic game.
Also, sorry to make a second comment, but I think someone like you, Js, is worth a place in the Sonic community. To be a bit blunt, I think it's nice to have someone who's got higher standards in this series or one with a completely unique perspective.
I notice that Sonic players (not specifically fans) have fallen into a state where they accept what I believe is subpar or mediocre Sonic games, almost as if they're afraid of giving any level of criticism to a series they adore, but that's not how games or series get better.
You don't know the sonic fanbase then, bc they are not afraid to give criticism nor do they accept mediocrity.
No, bro you absolutely right that’s why so many people ride this game.
@@ericstaten2562 so many ppl love this game BC even with it's flaws it's darn good adventure. In fact, the game is like 06, it's flaws are so hilarious sometimes that it adds to it's greatness.
Sort the comments section by new @@Ibalistic_hedge
From my understanding, the fans are just basically looking for anything to praise and validate because of the miserable time Sonic has in the 2000s and the mid to late 2010s. And don't want SEGA or Sonic Team to get cold feet about the Franchise again and let it fall into guaranteed mediocrity or death.
No I completely disagree about letting the player adjust the controls to their liking. They're not the game designer, so they have no idea what the character should control like. Even if you spend like a whole hour tweaking, it's not gonna feel right. And that is simply because THE GAME WASN'T MADE WITH A CONTROL SET IN MIND SO IT HAS TO CATER TO EVERY POSSIBLE OPTION BY BEING AS GENERIC AS POSSIBLE. And that is EXACTLY what happened with Sonic Frontiers. It is an empty game filled with almost no real 3d platforming. They fill up the map with automatic rails to grind and switch to 2d segments often because they literally have to. That was the only way for them to give you a platforming segment with all controls in mind. If you ever want to make a game, please do not let the player dictate how the character controls, your level design will suffer immensely for it.
mario picture = you hate sonic anyways
This, exactly this. Imagine if Mario 64 or literally any other platformer did this. It's not accessible or giving options, it's a copout. Essentially saying "idk you figure out how he should control". This isn't a difficulty slider to make it easier for casuals, it's literally adjusting movement in a platformer. A game based entirely on movement 🤦🏾
Remember the skill system from generations? that is how you offer customization for a platformer. A few cool abilities limited by capacity. You can change small things like brake speed or boost gauge amount but nothing like secret rings where better controls is an unlock for some reason. Plus it left room for stuff like super sonic and the homing attack to be powerful unlockables since they took more slots iirc
IDK how this idea made it into the game or how they even tested anything with these options implemented.
Frontiers was always a great game for me personally. And the updates simply improved everything I already enjoyed. Of course I'm aware of the unpolished state the game is. But for me the good far outweigh what I found bad.
Honestly I haven't bothered with update 3 much beyond the initial excitement of playing as new characters. Between the insane difficulty increase of the level design and boss rush, it just didn't sound fun to slog through. Combined with Superstars' final two bosses being similarly frustrating to the point where they took me over 8 hours to complete (the final one being due to poor pc optimization), and it just leaves me scratching my head as to why these games, for as unpolished and messy as they are, are expecting such perfection from the player. I really hope they cool it with the difficulty and focus on polish because holy shit.
That’s the reason why I don’t feel like I want to play the D.L.C.
lol, get good.
@@dn22pkkdd476
There’s a difference between getting good and a game that’s extremely difficult in comparison to everything else, and having things that you wouldn’t understand so you’ll get stuck on a certain part, unless someone else tells you about it because the game itself didn’t tell you or imply what you need to do.
@@dn22pkkdd476 or better yet leave the difficulty choice to the player and don't ask for perfection when the game is too unpolished to warrant it.
@@MissNaomyo lower the difficulty, then get good. The option is there. The only thing that does not work on is the boss rush. And even then, dropping the difficulty gives you a larger, more fair, parry window. If you can't beat the game after that, I don't know what to tell you...... Except Get Good.
Finally!
Someone talked about all the problems I had with the game! Boring story with meaningless callbacks, the collecting got stale by the third island, annoying forced 2D sections, stiff animations, and boring environments.
I don’t agree with the boss fights though. I haven’t had that much fun in a Sonic boss fight since Unleashed.
It’s so refreshing to see someone have the same problems that I did. Every other fan is praising the game like it’s the new SA2, and that confuses me.
We even agree that getting to finally play as these characters isn’t as exciting if you already didn’t like the base game since you’re just playing all over again.
I bet if I made this review people would jump and hate on me. All few other negative reviews for this game got backlash but it seems this ones in the clear
@@mart5610 mostly because j never targets the fandom, unlike someone like jeb or telekenetic man Who constantly brought It up, even radical soda is more understandable than those guys, and mind you i don't agree they should be jumped and treated like monsters, their reviews are just as valid
Tbh i never though it sucked, it has problems that doesn’t let it get 8++ as a vote but still better than many games we had in the past
Its an okay game. But in my book, "better than the last game" isnt where I put my hat down. Its a 6-7/10 at best. It has no style, it has relative form. It tries way too hard to pander to an audience too diverse to pander too (children and sonic fans in general). But it never once focused on having fun...ya know the formula of a good game. Sonic Frontiers is just a better Sonic game in physics only. But even the devs dont kniw what "magical" formula their missing to make it sore higher in the fan spectrum. Until they focus on just making a good game rather than appealing to what fans want, Sonic will continue to be a mediocre exoerience.
@@DraztikMeasurez Sonic will continue to be a mediocre experience! I heavily disagree
This is my opinion: it doesn't suck in itself, it's the likelihood (or lack there of) that Sega will build upon this formula. Some of the choices in this game are baffling enough to support that (Cyberspace, copy/pasting rails in these barren non sonic like worlds). It's passable and a nice concept, if you believe Sega is competent enough to build on it. You'd think they will at least make the sequel.
It does suck IF you're a fan of traditional 3D Sonic visuals/feel (think Sonic Heroes, Generations). It's not likely that they're gonna suddenly revert to Sonic Adventure visuals after this. At this point we're probably hoping that they can just make a better game with this new direction. It's not bad solely because they tried something new, that was welcome.
@@DraztikMeasurezI don’t think sonic frontiers was meant to pander to children given the content of the 3rd update
@@DraztikMeasurezlove sonic but you’re right this game is very mid, I feel like sonic games mostly being bad is blinding people from how mediocre this game is, however it is a step in the right direction. And if they build on this we could have a very good game on our hands
THANK YOU!!
I really needed to someone to actually point out stuff that all people likes to ignore. It really saddens me that this is a the project people settles with
So many Sonic fans on UA-cam afraid to criticize a 3D Sonic game after years of bad ones. The youtube thumbnails all say the same thing "best sonic game hype" when the game is basically Forces 2.0
@@mart5610forces 2.0 is insane lol
There IS a reason to mix attacks. The big cinematic attacks slow down everything that isn't Sonic. If you mix different cinematic attacks, the enemies will barely get a chance to attack. You can technically do it with 1 cinematic attack too, but you'll have to homing attack in between to reset the process, whereas mixing different cinematic attacks doesn't have that problem, making it more efficient.
Add to that the fact you can cyloop certain enemies to leave them staggered for a long time (especially with quick cyloop), and the ability to cancel ANY attack with a quick-step, and you can do a lot more with the combat than you claimed.
I agree, I'd say the real issue is that most of the game doesn't give you much of a reason to do otherwise, which is why I really like extreme mode and final horizon as in my opinion they actually force you to mix up your attacks and use your cyloop while also being careful with your rings
@@zeyadamr5169 I love extreme mode. Dying in 1 hit encourages me to git gud and learn new strategies. I learned how to stunlock Tank and Caterpillar with quick cyloops and cinematic attacks (even the harder + versions in The Final Horizon).
My thing is your NEVER actually playing the game like you would Devil May Cry (the game people like to compare this too to make it seem deep). This game has no actual identity fluidity to its combat. If spammong a cutscene is what ya'll call strategy....Even Sonic Boom and Unleashes Werehog have this game beat on that regard. Combat is busted and the devs know it but cabt change the entire game for it.
@@roiitzkovich4545 I aint ever been as locked in fighting Giganto as I did on extreme mode, the second phase turns from a spectacle raiser to an actual terrifying threat as you realise those back lasers can KILL YOU, so you have to carefully stay infront of the mf's face and stay still whenever he attacks to not crash into them, give me that with the 1 second parry frame and I think the titans become the best sonic bosses imo
@@DraztikMeasurez You can also use momentum and the environment to your advantage. When fighting a tower, you can climb to a high area and go straight to a tower's head to kill it immediately.
Besides, the combat isn't the main focus of the game. If this was a DMC or a KH game I would've been much harsher about it. But this game, at its core, is a platformer. You can't reach the level of complexity as a full-on H&S when 60% of the controller is dedicated to platforming maneuvers.
Morio Kishimoto knew a DMC/Bayonetta combat won't work in a Sonic game. He even mentioned in an interview once that he initially wanted a H&S combat for Frontiers, but realized it won't work for it. Therefore, Sonic Team picked a more simplistic approach, with enemies designed with that simplistic combat in mind. The combat is merely an added flourish to compliment the exploration-platforming focused gameplay.
It's far from peak combat, but I don't think it should be. For what it AIMS to be, it's good.
The criticisms of Frontiers are understandable, I’d love to see what J thinks of Sonic Dream Team and if he’ll play it.
He prolly doesn't have an apple arcade subscription, and i wouldn't expect him to get one just for dream team
I kinda wish you talked about the new cyberspace levels a bit more, I thought they were really fun and challenging and a big improvement over the base game.
I understand the total package isn’t for you, I’m just glad to enjoy a Sonic game unconditionally after all these updates.
Hoping the next game gets levels closer to these new cyberspace ones
I like frontiers, but it feels like a fangame. Fun but super unrefined with a lot of generic assets. I enjoy the formula, but really want it to be refined. With Superstars and Dream Team they seem to be getting better with the interactions, art design, and especially the animation. I don't want them to just throw it away
Sonic Frontiers became a game I extremely loved, also this is the few times Sonic Team is using combat mechanics. They haven't perfected it yet so only we can hope in the next game, it'll be better. Also, Sonic Frontiers only had a 2 year development time. So yes, it was rushed. But this is a test of what we'll get in the future so whatever wrong Frontiers has, you'll probably won't see it in the next game!
Alot of the sonic fans in the comments need to get higher expectations, "its got flaws but blah blah its great actually" its not. the moment you compare this game to literally anything out rn including indy games, it falls apart. Its good for a sonic game needs to stop being used as an excuse, same with it being a step forward. Its a bad game, period.
fr
This game may not be perfect, but it's still one of my favorite sonic games
Mine to
Frontiers is great. I think the traversal and combat were handled well considering it's meant for kids to understand. I just don't think comparing it to devil may cry combat is fair considering 7 year olds have to be able to play. So, I think they did a great job with the cards they were dealt.
That's why he also compared it to Unleashed.
@urban_radagast688 That comparison I agree with. But comparing it to all those games with intricit combat systems isn't that fair
i think its very fair considering this game has difficulty sliders and how hard the final horizon dlc was to even adult players
How do people treat this amount of pop in as remotely acceptable in any finished game?! Let alone a triple AAA one. I've played since the 2000s and I've never seen something so blatantly bad in graphic design. How is this always just a tiny reference in any review?! It's a game about running and traversing at high velocities as atrocious pop in happens.
Yeah yeah, all right. To be fair, they had some issues in development with their LOD-making tools or something. Long story short, the platforms and other level props lack LOD models.
i thought the overworld was terrible, but i still think a sonic open world can work. needs a lot more natural pathing for one thing, better overworld missions and mission variety, then a lot more stage variety too. games like steep, riders republic, jet set radio, and tony hawk are good examples of natural pathing in an open space environment. missions and mission variety just need to give the players a goal, a timer, scattered enemies and traps, and allow them the freedom to find best path to reach the goal.
As a Sonic fan, I loved Frontiers to bits.
But as someone who plays video games... Yeah it had issues. Not that it was garbage or terrible, it just had issues.
The openness of “from the time I booted up the game to publishing my original video was 82 hours” is great but also, absolutely an objectively awful way to review a game.
Proper completion of the game can take up to 22 hours. You factor in sleeping, eating, writing a script, editing and uploading and to say things were rushed is a massive understatement.
I among with others I assume, would prefer you take time with reviews rather than rush to trend.
That admittance has just made me far less likely to watch your review of a recent release moving forward.
Factoring in all of that extra shit, 82 hours is still a very generous time period to write a review for a 20 hour game 😭
yeah, i feel like when it comes to reviews, it's better to actually give it way more time than just a few days....
rushing like that is more of a "first look", instead of a full review. And no matter how much you like or hate what you're reviewing, that honestly isn't fair. Not expecting a 100% completion, but that still not enough time to mull things over.
...but really, do you need to play this for more than 30 min to tell it's mid at best?
@@TheSultan1470 yes you do need more than 30 minutes and 82 hours to speak about a depth review of a 20-30 hour game. You can tell he rushed the game and was playing to finish the game and not really enjoy it because their are aspects that many people enjoyed that he did comment on at all. It's okay if it wasn't his cup of tea but it's on him that couldn't take the time to actually play and experience everything their is to enjoy this game ?
@@whiten4635 Yes, I agree, but the game is very clearly not all that well put together. It's no secret that they are working with a limited budget since Sonic is just a B-brand of SEGA. He's not that popular anyway, in Japan, not at all.
I completely agree with the section on the new update. As hype as it is, the boss rush to the health generating final boss with the vague instructions on what you even need to do along with the environment getting in your way, and the damn camera going all over the place has a lot of confusing and quite frankly, amateurist design choices that just shouldn't be a thing in 2023.
Sounds like you didn’t grow up during first gen consoles. Everything was vague. That’s the best way to play
4:30 - I got the spin dash without ever needing to do the trials. The game just gave it to me as soon as I booted up my save file.
oh yeah I think it gives it to u in the final horizon regardless of if u have it already
I haven't even touched the final horizon update other than once, tried out Amy and hated how floaty she was.
Well, it was obvious that the final battle was crap and poorly explored by devs. But man, they somehow managed to design and even poorer endgame. It's almost unbelievable this level of incompetence. Congratulations to them, I guess.
Fun fact, they teach you how to best the final boss, but you have to 100% update 3 if you don't have the internet to find it.
I gotta disagree with this. While I did prefer that they teach the player how to attack the boss antenna cord and while I wish the parry was better utilized and as much I wished we weren't being blocked by trees, I still think this is most climatic a sonic boss has been. The set pieces were great the animation was really cool and dynamic the music phenomenonal and the ending with sonic going all out was by far one of the most hypest moments in sonic history. I get this boss wasn't everyone's cup of tea but in terms of spectacle, voice acting, presentation this was amazing, my only criticism are things a listed and the boss to have a bit more attacks variety but everything else about the boss and the end game far exceeds what you've seen in most sonic games
I can kinda agree the final boss in dlc 3 may be too vauge on what you’re supposed to do; tho if you talk to the Master King Koco before the boss he can give you hints, but the option only appears if you 100% the map beforehand. I didn’t ask the Koco for hints but it didn’t take me long to figure out what to do on my own. It’s pretty obvious the cord attached to Supreme is what’s giving him health back. What else could it be? Since I knew I could switch targets mid combo with the bumpers from the Knight boss and regular combat, I figured the same applied to attacking cord. The game has you cyloop alot of stuff especially for puzzles; “when in doubt cyloop” is what I go by when I was trying to get Supreme’s gun.
Since you haven’t played the game since release till recently I can’t fault you too much for not picking up on all that. A part of me still believes some players are just slow on the uptake, especially since I’ve seen people fail the last qte in the original final boss despite how straightfoward it is.
Sonic Frontiers is honestly one of the best Sonic game to come out since Unleashed. The story was amazing, the characters felt how they were supposed be, and the open world mechanic was very well implemented, and the music was just perfect.
The DLC's only improved on these, and fixed the one thing i had a problem with: The ending.
And we got Super Sonic 2 out of it.
I couldnt have asked for more.
That's not a high bar to hit.
@1313eable the bar is buried in the sand.
I have a soft spot for the story, SS boss fights, and the new playable characters, but I personally don't find the game has aged very well
I thought it was never going to age well from the very beginning. Similar to the 1st Sonic movie, it only got high praise because of the abysmally low expectations initially (some fans literally got hyped when they saw Sonic was gonna have idle animations💀just to add context) . Once the games genuinely start getting good and not just "good for Sonic" , I strongly believe there'll be no reason to go back to Frontiers.
honey, the game came out a little over a year ago, tf you mean "aged"
Just finished it, I’m on the dlc, and I cant bring myself to like nor hate it.
My biggest gripe is wanting to turn some sonic moves off and the spin dash should be default.
My biggest take away is the strange urge the islands give me. I roam the islands and cant help but think of how fun it’d be if I had these islands to play around on in SA1.
This game was and still is the definition of Mediocre but the fans ate it up as if it was some masterpiece, people really settle down for any shit as long as it has references to the lore and "it's made for the fans".
Honestly, I see Sonic Frontiers as a stepping stone for the next mainline game.
That sounds harsh, but I wholeheartedly agree with your take on the game. It's just okay, which is probably why I dropped the game shortly before the final boss a year ago and contemplate to finish it with the new updates.
I feel like it's easy to get blinded by the boss fights as they are hands down the best thing in the game. That's at least why I think some people gave the game such a high score.
Honestly having sliders just feels like the developers didn't know how to make Sonic control themselves, feels amateurish and insecure of them. You don't see Mario doing this, or any other platform. It is a shame...
It has more to do with different fans wanting different things lol
I don't think you're a party pooper.
I don't want to tell anyone what to think about Frontiers, and if there are people who think the game it's perfect, that's great.
But I personally thank you, because I didn't like the game either for those same reasons, and for a moment I thought I was going crazy.
So basically the people in the comments are upset because you have an opinion different to them.
That's how pathetic the Sonic community is the fanboys are so upset because this game is mid as we been saying.
Welp that's the sonic fanbase/community (or should I say any fanbase/community out there) for you. Can't say shit without people attacking you bc your opinion is different from theirs
(I played frontiers and I said it felt pretty mid imo and I had a whole bunch of people attacking me on twitter bc of that) "GOD MAN" can't say shit anymore.
Hey, it's not like you're actively trying to spit on the game's image or anything...
@@TheSultan1470 Maybe make good games and it'll have a good reception
@@TheOnlyGokuMain ...but it has good reception?
I feel like people were so desperate for this game to be good after Forces and years of nothing that they simply convinced themselves it's somehow not bad. What a shame...loved the Adventure games, even liked Heroes and Shadow and Secret Rings as a kid, Unleashed was fun for me and Generations at least had nostalgia going for it. But I'm pretty done with the series after this steaming turd.
Sonic adventure 2 battle is not as good as you remember tbh, it has a lot of bugs
I bought it again recently it’s a huge mess of a game but I still love it, Sonic frontier is gonna be praised so much in the next few years especially if Sonic has another horrible game like forces
Nobody:
Litterally not a soul:
This guy getting the spindash through mods: I have no shame
I don’t know why people say sonic frontiers sucks, it really doesn’t.
Cool... it still sucks though
Fax
@@DMPLAYER1000 "I'm different"
Opinions exist
@@riahlexington exactly
To me, this game is good enough. It certainly could've been better and there's sonic games I definitely like more. However this game did well and thats means sega will probably put more resources into the next game and we could get one of the best sonic games ever.
“Good enough” is what im sure the devs were striving for
@TheHutchIsOn as pixel said in the video. This is the most successful sonic game of the past 10 years, and despite its issues. It's a very commendable game, free dlc is hard to find in the gaming industry these days.
"Sega will probably put more resources into the next game" people kept saying that for forces and look how frontiers ended up because of it. The game sold "good enough" but when it came to the general quality it just wasn't there. If we continue to excuse Sega's mediocrity then we'll just be doomed to have bad game's for extended periods of time
@@ashuraomega1000Not really? It didn’t just sell “good enough”. It sold amazingly. The second best selling 3D Sonic Game as a matter of fact. And they definitely tried their hardest with the game, and good enough is what came out. It wasn’t the developers fault, more so the parent company that Sega is. One of Sonic’s co-creators (Takashi) almost got fired for asking for more time, and went though hell to get it. The people behind it are passionate and the game was received amazingly by fans and decently by Critics. It may not be perfect, but it was a major success in all categories both objectively and my eyes :)
@@WaffleYabbler saying it's a "major success" in all categories is just objectively wrong
In my opinion sonic frontiers is one of the best sonic games but i don't know why sega dosen't add momentum or boost damage and combo ranking
Sonic frontiers is one of the worst Sonic games literally the map is a generic unity world building the game has tons of pop ins the world is empty the story is a mess the physics sucks ass and the cut scene animations robotic bad I don’t know how people can enjoy such a repetitive game the game is as bad as ac Valhalla
@@ppo1502omg wth is this opinion one of the worst sonic games have you even played it it's like 5/10 at worst lol
@@Mike-di3mo not really sonic 3, sonic generations, sonic battle (my fav sonic games) are way better than frontiers even lost world is better (and before you trash on lost world let me tell you this lost world plays well has great level design and good dlcs)
@@ppo1502 I think lost world is fine but reviews compared to sonic frontiers are favored to frontiers you might have a bias but I kind of have a bias for frontiers because it was my frist sonic game, and sonic 2 is one of my fav sonic games. For me it's a 8/10 and lost world is like 7/10
I can definitely agree that Frontiers lacks in some areas and I'm sorry the game didn't turn out the way you want it to, but for me I enjoyed it overall. The spindash and the jump deceleration saved the game for me since even the island's on chaos can be skipped with a well placed spindash.
As for final horizon I think the main reason why it came out the way it did was because the new playable characters were not build in mind during the initial development so they had to bring them out as soon as possible. But despite all this the fact that we have all this extra content for free is simply amazing.
I remember when I first got this Frontiers on switch for Christmas last year and I legit couldn’t put down the controller and I played the game for 2 hours straight. The open world felt really good to run through, the missions/side quest are cool and while cyberspace felt weird at first and clunky, you can do some crazy shortcuts if you use Sonic’s momentum and boost to his advantage. And I will still play the cyberspace stages over Every modern and classic Sonic level in forces and I’ll stand by that. I love how the Titans had a good cinematic feel and you can feel the weight behind the attacks Sonic dishes out and the interactions with Tails, Amy and Knuckles really helps this game’s story and the references to games like Adventure and Unleashed bring the story together really well. Sonic Frontiers is a step in the right direction but I will say they can improve on the formula and use for the next game and hopefully they don’t pull a lost world(lost world isn’t a bad game) like they did after Generations and expand on the said formula to give us a better experience overall. And I’m glad this game did well on metacritic so there is actual hope that Sega can still make good Sonic games.
That sounds at least promising. I want to buy sonic frontiers, and I hated sonic forces (while being a long time fan of the series.) So the cyber space levels not being as bad as frontiers is good.
I always wonder why UA-camrs always have the worst opinions when it comes to sonic games.
My biggest gripe with the Final Horizon DLC is the final boss. The camera doesn’t always stay on The End, and even when you’re trying to target the cord to disconnect him, it doesn’t always work. Then, you have to cyloop around the gun jammed between his shoulder blades to continue the battle, and if you get hit by an attack after that with less than 100 rings, you automatically die and have to start over. It’s a really unfair boss fight in an otherwise enjoyable game. I blew through the rest of the game in five days and had an absolute blast doing so.
Bro you just suck at it I've beaten it like 100 times I love it
While sonic frontiers isn't my favourite sonic game, the free DLC improved it at least a little bit, and it gave me a reason to play it more, if thats worth anything.
My biggest takeaway from frontiers, ESPECIALLY after update 3, is *potential.*
Is it perfect? Not even close. But there's a spark of possibility in what they made here. I'm genuinely hoping overall reception stays positive going forward, because if given the chance to refine this sort of idea, and given more dev time in order to really make it shine, then THAT could be the "next great game" in this franchise.
Sonic Frontiers is not the next great game but it needs to succeed because it could BECOME the next great game, if we can keep SEGA from scrapping it.
Can't wait to see this comment be copypasted for the next Sonic game lol
The more I look back on Frontiers, the more I'm not excited for Sonic to be yet another open-world where you run around and do random shit.
Great video as always. I love hearing your insights, especially with Sonic games. As for me, I think of Frontiers almost like an awkward, early beta/focus group test of an actually finished Sonic game. A lot of disparate elements (many of them with varying degrees of polish) where some land, some miss, and others fall in-between due to lack of cohesion or fine-tuning. And of course, a load of reused assets, both in levels and animations. Even the DLC updates felt largely like features missing from the base game rather than actual DLC. The one redeeming quality for me, though, was the music! Great stuff there, if little else. I hope Sega can pick up the pieces of the game and really hone in on the handful of things that did work or have potential and deliver a more focused game next time. It's tough because as a Sonic fan, I know we can't even expect to see the fruits of that labor for another few years, at least.
when we consider that this was all free, suddenly we realise why it feels like what it *should* have been than, proper dlc. even if by some it's still underwhelming.
For anyone who thinks J's take on Frontiers is too harsh, just know that there are much more unforgiving reviews like Jimquisition.
Also everyone has different opinions and one person's take isn't gospel.
Does anyone even care about the jimquisition anymore.
I’m a year late to this conversation, but I’m a little mixed on Frontiers…
For the things I appreciate about the game, I liked the music of course, I enjoyed completing the challenges and getting the collectibles as easy as they were, and while I think the story could’ve used a rewrite, I did like the dialogue, the slow pacing, and the sweet moments coming from Sonic and Co.
However, the flawed mechanics, horrendous presentation, weightless combat, and the overall blatantly janky gameplay were really difficult to ignore.
I haven’t played the DLC because I already returned the game to my local GameStop after beating it. I didn’t see myself wanting to go back to the game again.
I wanted to like sonic frontiers but it’s hard for me to enjoy it when I know previous sonic games are so much better. It feels like a downgrade
Kirby and the forgotten land was more fun than this game. Sonic frontiers is decent enough for me to not throw it in the trash, But not good enough for me to continue past the 2nd island.
facts
Sonic unleashed still the best sonic game. If only they would release another sonic game where you can speed though busy cities and not just making basically empty landscape with a bunch of levitating platforms that exist for no reason.
Hey man, it’s nice that you feel sorry for anyone who was hoping for a different opinion from the last video you made on this game, but you also don’t have to. You are just as much allowed to have an opinion on this game as anyone who likes it (myself included). You have made it very clear in plenty of videos that you never want your opinion to stand over anyone else’s and that is just as apparent even when you don’t say it. It’s just like you said in this video, maybe this game isn’t for you, and that’s ok
Yeah I agree, its important for someone, whether they be just a person trying out a game they don't know much about, to a hardcore fan who's in it for the long haul to always be honest with how they're feeling even if the general consensus thinks differently.
Lots of people love Frontiers, J didn't, and that's fine. If anything it's a good thing to see such a convoluted content creator break down exactly what they find lacking in a game so that the next one can find a better balance between doubling down on what worked for people, while also trimming out what didn't for those turned off by the previous installment.
@@SSJ_EWGF yes. That is very true
I have a question. So jump momentum has been added right? Does it apply to the drop dash too? I've played the updated game and jump momentum just doesn't work for the drop dash. Is there something I'm missing? Is there a specific way jump momentum needs to be added to it?
It's great that people love this. I don't. It's a poor poor game, and it seems almost unfinished. Crappy level design, open World stuff sucks, the cyber levels are just your usual "press pne direction and press jump" bs we've had since Sonic Advance 2.
I wish Sega would stop using Sonic Team, they haven't made a good game for a very good time. Superstars was bland too.
it's really interesting to see such a different perspective because I truly love Sonic Frontiers and had a lot of fun with it, but I can definitely understand not everyone would feel the same way. My favourite Sonic game is Sonic Adventure 2 and honestly Frontiers gets really close to making me feel as happy as SA2 does, plus i just love that it feels like a blend of the boost and adventure formula to a degree.
A superb video, but--
Is it me, or does some footage weirdly stutter? Caught me really off-guard.
Yes it does
For the most part I agree with the criticisms. The only fundamental difference with our perceptions of the game is whether or not what does exist, highly flawed or not, still can be fun. I believe it is, albeit it does become excrutiateingly repetitive at one point or another and the DLC does little to change that even if it is a bit more challenging/free in terms of traversal (admitedly I have not done Sonic's portion, which is the one that has been criticized for its difficulty so we will see). Seemingly, there is nothing about the gameplay loop you enjoy in contrast.
Indeed, the automation gets under your skin the more you play the game and this does need changing going forward for me to continue to find enjoyment, but I'm not sure improving upon the repetitiveness and making collectibles less automated (which is a big part of what makes it repetitive) would change your mind much. This is unfortunate seeing as Sega has confirmed that this will be the template moving forward. They may do a better job with actual stages, boss battles, etc and (hopefully) steer away from hyper realism and create open worlds more fitting of early Sonic, so there could be some fun for you to have. But there will always be fundamental design choices you won't be able to get behind.
I'm totally with you J. As a massive Sonic fan this game disappointed me on every level. The open world feels like a developer's gameplay test stage. The story feels like it was written, recorded and animated in one week. The whole package just feels mailed in. I can't believe people are praising this as a step in the right direction when it has none of the charm, innovation or creativity of Sonic games 20 years ago. I honestly hope Sonic Team goes back to trying to remake the Adventure games because I've almost given up on them making an interesting 3D game ever again.
I’ve put nearly 54 hours into Sonic Frontiers, i finished the main game after 27 hours, i reached the final tour in the final horizon update and tried to beat the challenge and stopped because of how hard it is,i really tried to like the game, i dont hate it thats for sure but i dont like it either.
I agree with everything you said about the game so far your review is the most honest reviews of this game i’ve seen so far.
Though it is a heavily flawed game, I still enjoyed Sonic Frontiers for how fun it is to explore the islands, the fun Boss Fights against the Titans, and the story.
As for the game's 2 endings, I personally feel like since they both accomplish the same outcome of Supreme and The End being defeated and Sage's fate, it kind of feels like they're considered a matter of preference as to which one you liked more than the other.
Sonic Frontiers is a good $30 game that they unfortunately launched at AND STILL CURRENTLY IS $60. At this point, it's a good game to pick up on sale for $10 (66% off) but again, sega overpriced which changes the perspective of how we are supposed to look at the game by.
For some reason game companies NEED every single game to be $60 regardless of length or quality unless it's a collection of ports (and even then only sometimes) or an indie title. (which are usually around $20-$30) Why can't we go back to the SNES days of game prices being variable based on production costs and/or general quality and content? On the SNES you could get shovelware crap like Jelly Boy $5 NEW while expensive games to produce like Mega Man X2 were $120 new. Now the "standard price" has been raised to $70 and it just sucks for the minimum wage working class who still makes the same amount of money ($12 an hour) they did in 2013 at the beginning of the PS4's life when the price first went up to $60.
@@KrimsonKattYTI'm just surprised that it's a year later and the game has YET to get a price drop. Like, wtf. I been against pirating my games for the longest time. . . but with the state of the world right now (economically in the USA anyways) and how these companies are pricing their games. . . I am struggling to morally support the industry anymore. And I am a huge believer in voting with your wallet. I can't afford to vote anymore AND I don't even agree with the price points anyways even if I might agree in wanting to support a product to get a sequel.
@@Hadeks_MarowThis game has gotten lots of price drops. It's currently $30 on Amazon.
@@KrimsonKattYT That's not how any of this works but sure, you know best...
I'm glad you are not afraid to say you don't like the game and thus criticize it.
Frontiers to me feels more forgettable than Forces, and it feels surreal when everyone keeps boot-licking this game.
wHen eVerYone kEePZ B00tLicKinG
@@TheSultan1470 fROntIeRs is gOoD
I can tell J was very regretful writing this review but honestly, it's how I feel about the game in earnest. I don't have fun with this game and I'm sorry, like I want to enjoy it and I hoped it'd be good especially after the Final Horizon update; but no. This game disappoints me and I feel disappointed to feel that way as I like this franchise, I want sonic to succeed; but this game does not leave me with much hope for the games to cone honestly.
I feel like the way the spindash is implemented is way too extreme. It does make it fresh and fun for a bit but after a while you kinda realise that most of the places you previously had to be somewhat creative to reach can now be reached with an easy press of a button.
Where you previously had to get a small ledge to enter trick state then double jump and r1 sideways to reach you now just ... spindash and it gets you there easily, where you had to find a rail to jump from and carry its momentum you now spindash.
It is way too strong and way too versatile and it takes away the need to aproach different scenarios in different ways.
Still haven't bought it yet, still looking forward to playing.
It's surprising just how divided Sonic fans are right now. It's either the forced positivity mindset like you see all over Twitter where if you dare to criticize the current mediocre quantity over quality approach SEGA is taking, terminally online teenagers will verbally assault you. And then on the other hand is the realist, exhausted older fans like what's common on UA-cam, takes like yours and Pariah695's, where we only care about the official products because they're official, and we're much more interested in the fan works because fans have time and passion whereas SonicTeam has... passion and that's it, aided by a budget of $7 and a year to make a game because SEGA Sammy sees no value in anything that isn't Yakuza or pachinko machines. And Sonic sells like crazy anyways regardless of quality so why even try?
It IS exhausting, and seeing so many other younger fans defending these shitty practices and continuing to support SEGA Sammy's "who gives a shit" approach to Sonic and SonicTeam's equally damning "make everything super ambitious oops we ran out of time lol" poor planning, makes it all much worse.
I'm 100% with you dude, official Sonic stuff is neat to look at, but I'm far more interested in the fan content.
They made the latest DLC ridiculously hard. I gave up trying to beat the King Coco trial.
"Maybe Jack & Daxter had more resources put into it than Frontiers... which would be sad."
It's not unlikely; SEGA seems like they just doesn't care anymore; Sonic is their cash cow, regardless of the quality people are going to buy a Sonic game. Which rings a sad truth, unfortunately.
Iizuka begged SEGA for another month of polishing Frontiers and was almost fired for it. Whether he actually got that extra month I've no idea, but all of these things you're pointing out... well, that's a deliberate choice from SEGA because they simply do not give a fuck about creating a good or polished Sonic game anymore. Not since Generations - and Generations only works so well because of its stunning level design and replayability; the characters and stories are trash. So, if I had to point to the last GREAT Sonic game... I'd probably go Unleashed and Unleashed suffered from it coming out so soon after 06 and getting the brunt end of reviews that it objectively didn't deserve. (I don't pick Colours because Colours REALLY haven't aged well and it had trash characters that started the whole "quip machine and no personality" shtick. Colours symbolises the start of a decline in Sonic quality for me, not the peak of it.)
In any case. The only good thing I can say about Frontiers is its characters and its story - but mostly its characters. I love the character interactions and I would say that, objectively, yeah, they are a little boring but I am STARVED for Sonic characters ACTUALLY GETTING TO ACT LIKE PEOPLE WITH EMOTIONS that I am just over the moon on this. And I'm afraid I can but attribute this to Ian because any other writer was going to mess this up spectacularly. And Ian only got to write the dialogue, he didn't write the story scenario, he was just told to write the dialogue surrounding this specific story and he did well, I'd say, considering all the restrictions he likely faced while writing everything.
I say this because I'm honestly afraid that SEGA will just go, "Eh, whatever," and not care AGAIN about their mascots acting like actual characters and, GODS, anything but that, Colours through Forces was abhorrent and just BUTCHERED the characters!
If they decide to keep Ian writing the dialogue then halle-fucking-lujah, these characters need proper love from people who actually gives a shit.
But again... the characters (and story) can only do so much to remedy a rushed game. Because I agree, Sonic Frontiers is sooo booooring! I have ADHD and I lasted until the unmapping of Ares Island because the gameplay was so repetitive and... just... not fun. I have resorted to watching all the cutscenes of this game and uncaring of the gameplay or boss fights or, whatever, which is a freaking first but the gameplay is just THAT BORING.
And I just don't think SEGA is EVER going to turn back to greenlighting polished Sonic games again, especially not with their whole AI game engine they're working on and which is planned to release in 2026 :/
They couldn't bake a cookie, let alone design a game, they were deemed unworthy of a month or a day extra
"I've heard rumours that Sonic Team apparently consists of only, like, 12-18 employees
NIGGA WHAT😭😭😭
Where did you even get these numbers from!! Frontiers original credits had around 200+ development staff (44 of which were programmers. BOTW had 40, btw) listed in total, and Iizuka himself generally stated in an interview last year that the "main" staff of Sonic Team encompassed around 60 people. what a facebook-ass "rumor", like WHAT LMAO
@@bucket9486 First off, it was somewhere here on UA-cam, can't remember the video. Second, don't mock people like that, it's rude and hurtful.
I KNEW IT the sonic fandom was on copium the whole time i always thought this game wasnt that good, the environment, combat, platforming, and animations were reallllly underwhelming but sonic fans couldnt accept that after forces and lost world we got another game that wasnt as good as even generations, when your game is called "a step in the right direction" you know its not that great of a game
even though I found some enjoyment in the game this did not deliver i didn't wait 5 years for this is a step in the right direction or the next could be better this is heavily assuming sega would build off there pillars which history has shown they have a chuck it in the bin mindset.
“Good as generation” you mean the game where you can get through most of green hill by holding boost button ?The way some fans praise unleashed and generations so hard then shit on frontiers amazes me.
Having played Penny’s Big Breakaway and being reminded what Sonic should be focusing on, I’m soured on Frontiers big time. I don’t care if Sonic feels like the most Uber epic adventure with AAA graphics and tons of hours of content. I want a game that focuses on
1. Letting people play the game and not being loaded with automation and on rails crap.
2. Being freeing with the movement options and level design. Stop with the excessive 2D sections in a 3D game. Stop with the hyper linear “challenges.”
3. If they’re continuing to go open world, keeping the gameplay focused on physics and exploration, not button mashing combat and tower climbs because BotW is popular.
4. Not making the epic moments into QuickTime events. That’s not gameplay.
Between Frontiers ignoring the series’ identity, Origins and Colors Ultimate being rushed, and Superstars’ problems, I’m done until Sega creates a smash hit. The series had a better run than many would give it credit for, but Sega clearly doesn’t care about its workers or their games’ quality anymore.
Ngl atleast these games are better then the games we got in mid 2010s. Like super stars and frontiers are good, and the others where pretty rushed. All im saying is they are definitely improving.
Understandable. I’ve only played and beaten the game once, I enjoyed it. Never bothered going back to it since my backlog is huge lol
The realistic word textures never mixed well with Sonic's world, Sonic looks odd and out of place.
I think it looked good with the 06 renders.
Because sonic doesn't belong to one art-style
Wait, THAT'S what they changed the final boss too? From how people kept describing it as superior i thought it was something much more significance. Like a super sonic vs some alian monster inside the end in a cage match.
When I think about it I wonder they couldn't have faced off on the moon and have Sonic try to find places there to disconnect The End with Supreme...I will say I did like Sage being alive again but it wasn't clear why the timeline changed (although frankly the Sage death in the original ending seems forced IMO).
They didn't do much with it instead of making it look flashy and cool. Once you know what to do, it actually is easy tho.
Im gonna be completey honest i only got this because it was on sale and I fully expected this to be a waste of 26 dollars
And i have fucking loved this game yeah theres problems but besides a few roaming bosses a single zone and the last boss i didnt have much worth complaining about I really felt like i was playing somic adventure for the very first time again
With the story of Frontiers there was a chance to do something with Tails, what with him saying about a Shadow Self who is the nagging voice of doubt, pouring poison into the fox cub's ear. Saying he's just a lackey who can't do anything by himself. Surely with this interesting subplot they've brought up they're bound to do something with it, where Tails get the chance to face down his Shadow Self and regain his lost confidence, right?
Nope.
Outside of its initial mention, its never brought up again.
But wait! The Final Horizon is just over... the horizon, and it promises to "rewrite the story." Surely this time, now that Tails is actually playable, they will use the Shadow Self in a meaningful way, where maybe we'll play as Sonic's friends as they look to save his soul and bring him back after the cyber corruption, with the Shadow Self being the final obstacle for Tails to overcome, right... right...?
Nope.
There is no playing through saving Sonic's soul as Sonic's friends, as the cyber corruption still the same old blink and you miss it with it being basically "actually its going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience." Plus the sacrifice from Sonic's friends is kinda rendered pointless, due to how quickly they're brought back, making you wonder, why Sage didn't do that from the start. And while the Shadow Self is an antagonist in the game, its only for Sonic to race against, despite having no narrative connection to it, and the Shadow Self has about as much impact to the overall story as Metal does in Colors Ultimate. Zero. Tails does not once encounter or battle the very embodiment of his self doubt, in the Final Horizon.
Why did they even make mention of this Shadow Self if they weren't actually going to do anything with it. It could have actually made Frontiers' story interesting, instead of it being a total snooze fest.
No, don't apologize J. You did nothing wrong. You didn't like the game, and still don't and that's perfectly fine. The only people that should be apologizing are the ones that chose to be mad at you and this review for no reason.
The game has become insanely overrated anyways, and the only reason why many are hyping up this game is because it's a "Good step in the right direction".
Even though people also said that about Colors and Generations and they didn't guarantee a bright future for Sonic. Just like how the Adventure and Advance games didn't make any promises ether.
And Sega is still making stupid decisions with this franchise like Colors ultimate, rushing the developers for origins and making apple exclusive Sonic games.
If I may be honest, the main issue for Sonic games has always been SEGA's ego, particularly their top management. Even back in Adventure 2, SEGA was a crumbling empire, having just killed off its console division and nearly going into bankruptcy. That iconic game only had about 11 people working on it including Iizuka, and let's not forget how he worked himself to the bone, losing sleep and weight to finish Sonic Heroes' levels on time. The behind-the-scenes story of Sonic 06 and Secret Rings needs no elaboration.
All of this leads me to believe Iizuka is just a few steps away from being done altogether with this franchise, and seeing how he literally gave portions of his life to complete these games, I wouldn't blame him. The blue blur desperately needs a new home and a new team of developers, one with fresh ideas and a passion for the franchise equal to Ian Flynn's, an undisputed Sonic mega-fan.
You still looking for excuses to crap on fans for having different opinions?
@@Jackattack359just like the fans of sonic frontiers are doing
@@gggsh7 such as…?
@@Jackattack359 almost every frontiers fan when this game came out hell even now some of them are still doing it
I am a huge fan of your thoughts and videos, but this was genuinely frustrating to watch. It feels like a repetitive, angry, panned out waste of time.
Because it took SEGA 5 years to produce mid
@@nazomius7033 completely missed the point
@@Camo720 Yes you did
@@Camo720 Nah hes just like that in all of his videos lmao. His criticisms are well constructed and conveyed but I don't think the attitude in his voice is very entertaining. Its like he is genuinely depressed. Its very boring
@@Camo720maybe is just the disappointment that SEGA took five years to make this garbage beta of a game the same way we were all pissed at forces I we ask is for SEGA to bring quality games like generations and sonic rush they kinda nail it with Sonic Superstars for some reason SEGA Only knows how to make good 2D games but not 3D
I haven’t played the new D.L.C.
It’s fun to run around, but interacting with the surroundings is annoying as when Sonic runs and it’s something, he just flies and it’s annoying.
I think the islands looked good, the first and I guess second island was kind of fun…but it’s meh to me, it’s they’re just an islands with automatic platforms that don’t belong to that area and are in every island.
This game is fun, but I don’t feel like I want to go back to it.
And I hate that I have to do all challenges (forgot what they’re called) in all islands just to unlock a move that should’ve been in its released.
(11:17)
Whenever someone mentions F.N.A.F in a Sonic video, I’m just reminded of SplashDash cause he does that too from time to time.
I’m glad someone else shares my opinion on this game because all the problems with the gameplay and story come together to make this game extremely mid for me and I’m pretty terrified of sega using THIS as the basis for making new 3d sonic games for the next decade. I’m so tired of people blindly defending this game by saying it’s a good first step like they haven’t been saying that for the last 3 games 😔
Me too. I really don't want anymore of this style
NO ONE said Lost World and Forces were a "good step" wtf??
ikr he's a braindead mario fan@@xthewhitewolf
@@Safalmao lmao