Yes, this channel does some pretty fun (and labor intensive) exploration which is quite cool. The contents of the oil pan looked like what we saw in my friends Chevy Vega when we removed it back in the late 70's when the engine seized. Lol!! The Vega had an aluminum block with cooling and cylinder block hardened layer coating issues (just like in this video sort of) and was not ready for prime time.
@user-vp1sc7tt4m My uncle had an old Vega in the 90s when I was little. I'm not sure about the year. But I learned how to work on cars with it. He had it sitting in his yard for years. He said they were problematic, and I didn't know what he meant at the time. But great memories.
Absolutely. Now I'm left wondering if in F1 style, they left larger clearances cold but pre-heated the engine/coolant/oil to operating temps before starting. This might actually work... wait... elongation of the crankshaft, never mind.
Maybe spinning a soft crank inside soft bearings with close tolerences caused pickup between the two. Would removing the bearings and having a crank machined oversize but with more tolerence & thick oil avoid it? Or perhaps roller bearings on the crank mains (a bit expensive on a lada but)
My guess is it was a glitch during editing, as an artifact that got forgot until too late. It happens to me even after proof-watching many times over, then I upload and watch it one more time before publishing and still find something I somehow missed.
"Aluminum's thermal expansion coefficient is roughly three times higher than steel" So the clearances also needs to be tripled for this to start working. Wish they could retest with that
Its coated with ceramic and it’s duralamine , so the thermal expansion is roughly twice that of steel Duralamine also has a better thermal conductivity so it dissipates heat more efficiently the engine is less noisy because of lower density of duralamine which results in better vibration dampening properties
Yes! I thought about that. You could have made the comment less nerdy saying "aluminium expands much more with heat than steel, that's why it got wrong with a worm engine"
Metal, ceramic coating and sleeves don't work for bearing journals. Think about the forces working on it. It's like an English wheel, stretching the surface till it fails. Even case hardening will fail. I used to repair shafts and pumps.
@@dragan3290 what's simple, lasts a long time. and yes, i've built several 'hot rod' engines over the years. i might have only got between 500 and 550 hp out of a 350, but i kept them simple. that lada engine? mix cement in the oil and it'll still drive a mile before it seizes..
@garycarpenter2932 I'm the same! First car was a valiant ( pacer) shape in 2 door. Then 3 separate Holden toranas, one I resprayed in wild violet. A hq ute with 253 cu in v8. Now my Holden commodore vx ecotec buick based engine. All mace engineering parts. I can't help myself! Lol 😂. I bet you're the same? It's a performance thing! Some people just don't get it! Cheers from Australia 👍 I always wanted a 350 chev!!!
@@dragan3290 it's really fun. let me build it more!. hope you get a 350 one day, easy to work on and can get quite a few ponies out of them. to say, i built a few. so much so, friends would even come out to help. 30 some years ago i got a legal plate for my hot rods. RD-RGE. now my driving record speaks for itself. but what better plate could be put on something you built? i still have it on my 01 silverado. getting old so it's mostly stock.
You know, just the fact they were able to machine an entire fully functional billet aluminum crankshaft with a lathe and a mill, and not one single piece of cnc equipment in site, is absolutely incredible.
Some race engines have used forged aluminum crankshafts, but the crankshaft is lined with a hard bearing to reduce wear and expansion. The issue with this setup is now that the crankshaft is lighter, its not balancing out the reciprocation of the pistons so there will be greater vibrations, the original iron crankshafts were tuned to balance out the pistons. Still, another great experiment from you guys!
It's a bit less important on an I4, as the primary is balanced, but the secondary balance will suffer. Small displacement motor... Meh. It's not going to matter as much as you'd think.
"Some race engines have used forged aluminum crankshafts" i've searched google but i cant' find any info, can you please help me? do you have any names of the race engines? maybe i could search with those names...
@@zangetsu6638 he is talking about single-cylinder race engines, some racing engines have used aluminum crankshaft in the past...way WAY past... (that's how I remember...), also some military aircraft radial engines had used aluminum crankshafts. google isn't a big help...I just searched myself and....I don't have the patience to scroll 1000 pages of results! :-D
@@zangetsu6638 Well, I'm pretty sure I've heard racing teams producing connecting rods with balsa. So I've decided it'll be the perfect material to use for the diesel engines in our 50 ton capacity dump trucks. In fact, I'm thinking of "forging" the entire block from a large cube of balsa. Don't worry folks, I'll use steel liners for the cylinders, which should alleviate any foreseeable problems! 😉👍
@@russriley3005 if they get the clearances and oil viscosity right it probably would work just fine as long as they warm the engine up fully before putting heavy load on it.
I was thinking that as well, undersize the journal a couple thousandths. But as others said in the comments here it would probably start knocking with too much clearance. But an increase in the viscosity of the oil could counter that.
@@youtubasoarus the aluminum expands and contracts at a different rate as the coating that is embedded into the crank. it will separate throwing coating all over and leaving the crank pitted and a oil filler screen full of the coating
Congratulations! You just discovered the critical flaw of the Chevy Vega's 2.3L I-4. Mind you, the failure was partially because of a minor miscalculation of thermal expansion... but still very-much the same results from application of the same method: Coating aluminum with an anti-wear treatment versus employing iron parts in an effort to save weight, which--ultimately--didn't work. On further speculation: Perhaps if methods of cooling the oil were applied, along with a larger oil capacity, this might've endured better... if it's dimensions were first calculated to take heat expansion into consideration properly. Also: Perhaps the employment of custom aluminum connecting rods--like used in professional drag race engines--would help lessen the impact of the compression & firing pulses on the journals. And any improvements made the oiling system in terms of volume of delivery... to help in control thermal expansion... might not hurt, either.
A Lada is a FIAT 124 but with its steel body three times the thickness. So you have compensated for the weight increase by machining an aluminum crankshaft. _This makes sense to me!_
I'm always impressed with the machining abilities these lads have. Machining a crankshaft is no easy task. Especially when it is multiple cylinders. At any rate, it's very impressive what these guys can do.
Clean and polish up those aluminum crankshaft journals and fabricate some PTFE bearings. Teflon has a coefficient of friction (COF) of 0.05-0.10, which is the third-lowest COF of any solid material. The material properties of PTFE aren't the toughest but the material properties of conventional everyday engine bearings aren't very tough either. Garage54 is definitely the most qualified to find out if Teflon bearings will make this aluminum crankshaft a functional and reliable option
The shell bearings on a crankshaft never touch the crank in use. The relative friction coefficient between materials is irrelevant. They run with a film of oil in between, the only time they ever touch is on startup or in extreme circumstances where the oil film breaks down.
@otm646 I understand how the oil pressure system works in keeping the bearings floating on the oil. In consideration of the soft aluminum crankshaft material and the amount of expansion that aluminum exhibits when it heats up,I think ptfe bearings might be more accommodating to those conditions and the guys at Garage54 are the best for this kind of experiment. No other UA-cam channel does the kind of "thinking outside of the box" content that these guys do sooo.....
Thank you Garage 54, you guys are the best, been watching you guys for many years now, lots of respect from the UK. And thanks BMI Russian for the voice over and translation, you too are very well appreciated, unwatchable without you buddy.
Respect back to you too, sir. Even though we have our quarrels - I personally recognize that the UK has made some very meaningful contributions to the world. Formula-1, whisky, the English language of course...)
your crank journals will have an expansion of around 0.3mm at working temperature. your stroke will expand around 0.4mm . Thats one of the best videos you made so far.if you redo your clearances and heat your engine before operation this could work
Titanium will not work because it does not tolerate friction well and will start to peel quickly. It is true that it is lighter and harder than steel, but because of this it is mostly used only for connecting rods, or for components that have friction-resistant materials in between (bearings). It is true that titanium connecting rods have a bearing in between, but they are on the side where the bearing is fixed and does not wear.
@@LiveSeruiotitanium is very prone to galling. Even screwing a screw in its threads will gall it. Which is why it’s not used as crankshaft material. Titanium is also very difficult to work with.
Hey guys, great fun once more as always, thanks. Have you tried trimming down a regular steel crankshaft to see how light it can allow the Lada/Fiat engine to operate. That would be interesting.
Who out here in the comments could even machine a balanced crankshaft? Hats off for the show knowing it would fail with heat. You guys always produce interesting attempts with expected results! Fun to watch and educational. Thanks!
back in the 70's etc when they were making deep diving crab suits (bearing joint angle things) out of aluminum they were using mass compression forges and heat curing to make incredibly tough alloys. I suspect such would result in better wear surfaces on the crank but the application structure and method for the journals and slips on the block would be where you'd have to mill to fit the crank instead of the other way.
Titanium will not work because it does not tolerate friction well and will start to peel quickly. It is true that it is lighter and harder than steel, but because of this it is mostly used only for connecting rods, or for components that have friction-resistant materials in between (bearings). It is true that titanium connecting rods have a bearing in between, but they are on the side where the bearing is fixed and does not wear.
@@justinmiller1191 its not about the weight or strength . Its all about how well it handles friction and expanding as little as possible with heat. This is why cast iron is still my material of choice when it comes to engines.
@@hermanbotha1449 It works for rods why would you think it can't handle being made into a crank? It would be difficult no doubt. Machining it is a pain for sure. Thermal expansion on the aluminum likely was was messed up the aluminum but aluminum doesn't have a fatigue limit like steel and titanium so would eventually fail.
@@victorthecarguy3126The rods have an interface layer or bearing insert at the friction point to keep them from spalling out. Harder to do on a crankshaft. Not impossible, but FAR more difficult.
Wow I am amazed that worked at all with the weight of the counter weights being off, the expansion of the aluminum and the potential flex and deformation of the aluminum.
Revisit the Crossplane crank idea, but from one solid piece of steel like you did with the alloy crank, and then get it balanced so it doesn't shake it's self to pieces..
@@martin-vv9lf providing the counter weights are sufficiently heavy at either end of the crank, they should be able to get a good degree of ballence. If you look at a V8 crank you'll notice the end counter weights a pretty beefy, just need to scale one down to a 4 cylinder size. I'd love to have a go at it myself but I don't have a lathe big enough...yet..
My brother and I put a lightened flywheel onto his Mazda RX-7 and because of the lack of inertia, it had to be revved up all the time. That, coupled with the removal of his catastrophic converter, gave it a very distinctive exhaust note with extremely fast Rev acceleration. It is a good thing that the light and flywheel came with a heavy duty clutch to handle all of the slippage that it would be subjected to upon take off! PS, I enjoy your presentations!
Here's a thought for you to ruminate on... Four part races with cylindrical roller bearings for the crank and rod bearing journals. At least you won't have to put up with debris in your oil pan. Think of the frictional coefficients (or lack thereof), involved if you need a reason to try.
I had a similar idea. Since they are custom making a crank , might as well work in a roller setup. All things considered, I would hate to see how much it will cost to have it made by engineering. . . easily 10 times the price of 20 ladas. Its still nice that someone tried it so all of us can stop wondering.....poor lada....
@@franzbeckenbauer7490 it pops up on the screen at around the 3:30 mark. Usually this happens when somebody is editing the video in Adobe Premiere, tries to apply the image stabilizer, but forgets to actually execute the stabilization process.
The engine ran so quietly because the soft aluminum absorbed the impacts of the power strokes, instead of resounding from being hit by the connecting rods when the cylinders fired. My theory 🙂
You guys are the best at fabricating engine parts or any kind of part for the experiments you all put together kudos to you all. the maching work is excellent .
For it to work best the journal contact points of the crankshaft should be made of steel while the rest of the weights and whatnot be aluminum, it would all have to come into place with wedge joints and then be welded It would be a fair bit of work, but the results would probably be rewarding
This is the answer Oil not working on aluminum surface If you look closely, all the contact surfaces that operate on the aluminum blocks are iron Under normal working conditions, it doesn't generate a lot of heat You don't have to worry too much about the expansion coefficient
That was a worthy experiment. I was hoping the ceramic would protect the aluminium from chewing out and i agree that there should have been a lot more ceramic. I would love it if you did a part 2 of this one with some modifications from what you have learned already. Thanks guys!
@@chibalkin actually it's from the editing software (the "click analyze..." bar usually pops up when you apply the image stabilizer to a video file, but forget to actually run the stabilizer).
It really feels like you guys are on to something here. If I were to try making the shaf again, I would try machining down the bearing surface and using high temperature solder, attach high carbon steel surface in 2 half-moon pieces to the shafts bearing surface. A good idea would be to probably use threaded locking pins to lock the carbon steel in place and just weld shut the ends. I haven't felt this much excitement about a project in a while. The engine was super quiet, especially for an old lada.
that was an amazing video, very well done, considering you did all that work and still have the crankshaft, i wonder what would happen if you made the bearing clearance much bigger and used a MUCH MUCH thicker oil would it last any longer? , you guys are amazing please keep up the great work
well it didnt last, but maybe this is just the experimental start. BECAUSE IT DID WORK, and was exciting to see. maybe like other aluminum parts there just need to be steel inserts at the journals for bearings to ride on. i love that, "you cant do that", does not reside in this shop. GREAT JOB😊
Great video, this was a great experiment, I think with a few tweaks you may have something, ie .003 running clearance, a fresh grind and some other high tech coating or maybe a better aluminum alloy.
Yeah the aluminium expanded for sure and most likely caused that. A bit similar thing happened on M539 Restorations channel too. I can't exactly remember how it was but I think Sreten got aluminium sleeves in a cast iron block and that caused the pistons to first eat up the aluminium sleeves and then when the aluminium sleeves cooled, the pistons started to cause piston slap and the pistons and the sleeves were destroyed. Here the aluminium crankshaft expanded so much that the clearances went away, oil film went away and then the two metals started to eat and melt each other out, even when there was ceramic coating on the crank. So I think if you try to install an aluminium crank to your car, you need a ton of clearances and such bearing and connecting rod materials which can take that beating of loose clearances before the crankshaft expands and the clearances become much smaller.
Loved the video. I always wondered if it was possible to be done. Carbon fiber also intrigues me, since it's even more resistant than aluminum and lightweight, tough the coating would be a problem. You could try to lower the main journals and crankpins diameter and use a hard steel fixed bushing to compensate for the size, and also for durability while keeping ~>98% of the pure duralumin crankshaft weight. Also, tolerances for heat expansion are to be taken, since aluminum expands a lot more than steel.
@@zangetsu6638 Yeah, I figured. I know the material itself is pretty resistant to temps, but the resin is a problem, as far as I know, epoxi resin is used along with the carbon fiber sheets and that would be the main problem, if another bonding material who'd be more resistant to temps could be used then it wouldn't mean a problem. Regarding chemicals, oil companies could develop a non damaging oil for those kind of engines too, I'm sure there's a way. (keep in mind this is all hypothetical and I don't know a lot about carbon fiber)
@@ayuwoker hey man, that would be cool if the chemicals in the engine enviornment were designed to be carbon fiber friendly, and if they could find a better resin! good ideas!
He's right about that cranking yes I'd be worried about the drone too cuz there's a lot of pressure set alarm for little motor I hooked a lot of motor survives anyway you guys are awesome man America loves you keep up the good work❤❤❤❤
This is one of your best ones.I think the best idea. Maybe if you could spray that nickel and crome powder spray and then heat it up. You know how they do it. How are they doing that with gears and other steel gears. Maybe you could do that on the journals of all the crank shaft and cam shafts and some mathematics. I know you've probably thought about that already.That's a little more work, though, but look like.Look what you're doing.You're developing something I like it.😊
How about using cast iron bearings and using something like T6 aluminum for crank? Also more tolerance for a bit thinker oil. That might work? Fun project guys!😃👍👍
Nice, wonder if very hard steel bearings may have done the trick here, A2 Tool Steel for instance would keep the softer material in check... Changing just the connecting rods with lightweight rods on a stock engine makes a huge difference in performance.
54 i love what you guys do i think fhe issue is aluminum exspands several times more than steel and if the tolerance is thin youll just seeze up once she heats up.
So I normally watch these in amusement. But I think you may have something here. Rather than relying solely on duralum maybe make some form of steel race that goes around the aluminum bearing surfaces for the normal conrod and mains bearings to ride on. This was a genuinely interesting idea. And don't forget to make a Steel area for the thrust bearings to ride on.
Super cool project. I knew right from the beginning it would grow to seizure. But I think replace the bearings with leather. Or else machine with large clearances. .0075" on both should do and run streight 50 oil. But really cool video.
This channel does the best car experiment on UA-cam. It's universal language when you pull the oil pan with junk in it
Yes, this channel does some pretty fun (and labor intensive) exploration which is quite cool. The contents of the oil pan looked like what we saw in my friends Chevy Vega when we removed it back in the late 70's when the engine seized. Lol!! The Vega had an aluminum block with cooling and cylinder block hardened layer coating issues (just like in this video sort of) and was not ready for prime time.
@user-vp1sc7tt4m My uncle had an old Vega in the 90s when I was little. I'm not sure about the year. But I learned how to work on cars with it. He had it sitting in his yard for years. He said they were problematic, and I didn't know what he meant at the time. But great memories.
Absolutely. Now I'm left wondering if in F1 style, they left larger clearances cold but pre-heated the engine/coolant/oil to operating temps before starting.
This might actually work... wait... elongation of the crankshaft, never mind.
Maybe spinning a soft crank inside soft bearings with close tolerences caused pickup between the two. Would removing the bearings and having a crank machined oversize but with more tolerence & thick oil avoid it? Or perhaps roller bearings on the crank mains (a bit expensive on a lada but)
Where is Analyze...I want to begin now!!
Click on the screen. Works perfect.
My guess is it was a glitch during editing, as an artifact that got forgot until too late. It happens to me even after proof-watching many times over, then I upload and watch it one more time before publishing and still find something I somehow missed.
@@JoshuaDemersProductions you guessed exactly right.
I did click Analyze - Now it Begins !
I'm not too sure I want to be analysed thanks 🍑
I absolutely love the "fukit, let's try it!" attitude of you all. Your testing/experiments are the best on youtube in the automotive areas.
"Aluminum's thermal expansion coefficient is roughly three times higher than steel" So the clearances also needs to be tripled for this to start working. Wish they could retest with that
More space for expansion, 50% gear oil and nikasil coating instead of the ceramic stuff.
Its coated with ceramic and it’s duralamine , so the thermal expansion is roughly twice that of steel
Duralamine also has a better thermal conductivity so it dissipates heat more efficiently
the engine is less noisy because of lower density of duralamine which results in better vibration dampening properties
Yes! I thought about that. You could have made the comment less nerdy saying "aluminium expands much more with heat than steel, that's why it got wrong with a worm engine"
The coating itself can pose issues since its likely to be abrasive to an extent.
Metal, ceramic coating and sleeves don't work for bearing journals. Think about the forces working on it. It's like an English wheel, stretching the surface till it fails. Even case hardening will fail. I used to repair shafts and pumps.
After watching this show for so long now I can build Lada engines in my dreams when I'm sleeping.
I was thinking a similar thing.
As if it was hard in the first place! Lol 😂
@@dragan3290 what's simple, lasts a long time. and yes, i've built several 'hot rod' engines over the years. i might have only got between 500 and 550 hp out of a 350, but i kept them simple. that lada engine? mix cement in the oil and it'll still drive a mile before it seizes..
@garycarpenter2932 I'm the same! First car was a valiant ( pacer) shape in 2 door. Then 3 separate Holden toranas, one I resprayed in wild violet. A hq ute with 253 cu in v8. Now my Holden commodore vx ecotec buick based engine. All mace engineering parts. I can't help myself! Lol 😂. I bet you're the same? It's a performance thing! Some people just don't get it! Cheers from Australia 👍 I always wanted a 350 chev!!!
@@dragan3290 it's really fun. let me build it more!. hope you get a 350 one day, easy to work on and can get quite a few ponies out of them. to say, i built a few. so much so, friends would even come out to help. 30 some years ago i got a legal plate for my hot rods. RD-RGE. now my driving record speaks for itself. but what better plate could be put on something you built? i still have it on my 01 silverado. getting old so it's mostly stock.
You know, just the fact they were able to machine an entire fully functional billet aluminum crankshaft with a lathe and a mill, and not one single piece of cnc equipment in site, is absolutely incredible.
How do you think they were made before the computer controlled machines were made?
@@roddycreswell8613more than likely cast iron. Which is why most v8s back then did not putout as much powers as v6.
@@GregsAutomotiveI know how they were made, v6s were no different. Longevity meant something then.
@roddycreswell8613 so why did you asked him? We answered casted but you cleary ment a lathe
@@littlereptilian7580even casted they machined them on a manual lathe. You have no point except to stick your foot in your mouth.
Some race engines have used forged aluminum crankshafts, but the crankshaft is lined with a hard bearing to reduce wear and expansion. The issue with this setup is now that the crankshaft is lighter, its not balancing out the reciprocation of the pistons so there will be greater vibrations, the original iron crankshafts were tuned to balance out the pistons.
Still, another great experiment from you guys!
It's a bit less important on an I4, as the primary is balanced, but the secondary balance will suffer. Small displacement motor... Meh. It's not going to matter as much as you'd think.
"Some race engines have used forged aluminum crankshafts"
i've searched google but i cant' find any info, can you please help me?
do you have any names of the race engines? maybe i could search with those names...
@@zangetsu6638 I have never heard of one single example. I can't wait for his response to educate me!
@@zangetsu6638 he is talking about single-cylinder race engines, some racing engines have used aluminum crankshaft in the past...way WAY past... (that's how I remember...),
also some military aircraft radial engines had used aluminum crankshafts.
google isn't a big help...I just searched myself and....I don't have the patience to scroll 1000 pages of results! :-D
@@zangetsu6638
Well, I'm pretty sure I've heard racing teams producing connecting rods with balsa. So I've decided it'll be the perfect material to use for the diesel engines in our 50 ton capacity dump trucks. In fact, I'm thinking of "forging" the entire block from a large cube of balsa. Don't worry folks, I'll use steel liners for the cylinders, which should alleviate any foreseeable problems! 😉👍
They should try resurfacing the journals to decrease the diameter and increase the clearance. Then get it coated again and try it with extra clearance
the problem is that if they cut the crank too much, it with knock like hell on startup. adding the coating just confuses the study in my opinion
@@russriley3005 perhaps they could preheat the oil and the block like they do in F1
@@russriley3005 if they get the clearances and oil viscosity right it probably would work just fine as long as they warm the engine up fully before putting heavy load on it.
I was thinking that as well, undersize the journal a couple thousandths. But as others said in the comments here it would probably start knocking with too much clearance. But an increase in the viscosity of the oil could counter that.
@@youtubasoarus the aluminum expands and contracts at a different rate as the coating that is embedded into the crank. it will separate throwing coating all over and leaving the crank pitted and a oil filler screen full of the coating
Congratulations! You just discovered the critical flaw of the Chevy Vega's 2.3L I-4. Mind you, the failure was partially because of a minor miscalculation of thermal expansion... but still very-much the same results from application of the same method: Coating aluminum with an anti-wear treatment versus employing iron parts in an effort to save weight, which--ultimately--didn't work.
On further speculation: Perhaps if methods of cooling the oil were applied, along with a larger oil capacity, this might've endured better... if it's dimensions were first calculated to take heat expansion into consideration properly. Also: Perhaps the employment of custom aluminum connecting rods--like used in professional drag race engines--would help lessen the impact of the compression & firing pulses on the journals. And any improvements made the oiling system in terms of volume of delivery... to help in control thermal expansion... might not hurt, either.
Or if chevys' cheap engineering didn't stuff the job. German cars have used those coatings for years.
The late John DeLorean had a few choice words for the Vega's aluminum block engine.
Still the best channel for crazy and brilliant automotive tomfoolery. That machine work to make the crank was a thing of beauty, top work.
The craftsmanship behind making the crank, great work
I love this kind of question with answers. Thank you for doing it! Someone hasn't forgotten how to be curious and have fun!
The skills you guys are developing and perfecting with all these experiments is awesome to watch
A Lada is a FIAT 124 but with its steel body three times the thickness. So you have compensated for the weight increase by machining an aluminum crankshaft.
_This makes sense to me!_
I'm always impressed with the machining abilities these lads have. Machining a crankshaft is no easy task. Especially when it is multiple cylinders. At any rate, it's very impressive what these guys can do.
Generally speaking, you have to say, you have amazing mechanics. My respect
Your machinist is incredible
Yes, skilled old skool machinist type.
Clean and polish up those aluminum crankshaft journals and fabricate some PTFE bearings. Teflon has a coefficient of friction (COF) of 0.05-0.10, which is the third-lowest COF of any solid material. The material properties of PTFE aren't the toughest but the material properties of conventional everyday engine bearings aren't very tough either. Garage54 is definitely the most qualified to find out if Teflon bearings will make this aluminum crankshaft a functional and reliable option
The shell bearings on a crankshaft never touch the crank in use. The relative friction coefficient between materials is irrelevant. They run with a film of oil in between, the only time they ever touch is on startup or in extreme circumstances where the oil film breaks down.
@otm646 I understand how the oil pressure system works in keeping the bearings floating on the oil. In consideration of the soft aluminum crankshaft material and the amount of expansion that aluminum exhibits when it heats up,I think ptfe bearings might be more accommodating to those conditions and the guys at Garage54 are the best for this kind of experiment. No other UA-cam channel does the kind of "thinking outside of the box" content that these guys do sooo.....
Thank you Garage 54, you guys are the best, been watching you guys for many years now, lots of respect from the UK.
And thanks BMI Russian for the voice over and translation, you too are very well appreciated, unwatchable without you buddy.
Same from the US
@@Undertaker1134Tx Glad to hear it bro.
Respect back to you too, sir. Even though we have our quarrels - I personally recognize that the UK has made some very meaningful contributions to the world. Formula-1, whisky, the English language of course...)
This guy never fails to deliver great content.
This channel is all my intrusive thoughts about engines and cars presented as actual videos
your crank journals will have an expansion of around 0.3mm at working temperature. your stroke will expand around 0.4mm . Thats one of the best videos you made so far.if you redo your clearances and heat your engine before operation this could work
Electric pump and heater for the oil. Run the pump until it gets stable at 200f. 91 c
Moon dust
Aluminum flywheel
@@dennisford2000 moon dust? what?
You guys put so much effort into every video. We love it.
I've been catching up on older content so it's great to see a new one pop up!
I was always wondering what would happen with an aluminum crank
aluminum expands more and might seize when reaching a certain size
Now I'd really like to see a titanium version of this.
Titanium will not work because it does not tolerate friction well and will start to peel quickly. It is true that it is lighter and harder than steel, but because of this it is mostly used only for connecting rods, or for components that have friction-resistant materials in between (bearings). It is true that titanium connecting rods have a bearing in between, but they are on the side where the bearing is fixed and does not wear.
I still feel like titanium would work much better than the sticky aluminum only problem I see is the price of such a big titanium block.
@@LiveSeruiotitanium is very prone to galling. Even screwing a screw in its threads will gall it. Which is why it’s not used as crankshaft material. Titanium is also very difficult to work with.
meaning titanium will cut into softer metals.
ive seen alloys do fine or vitol coated... but dragsters... not endurance... and nothing that rubbed...
@@bernymonty22 Wonder if they could build the crank with titanium but with forged steel journal bearings.
Hey guys, great fun once more as always, thanks.
Have you tried trimming down a regular steel crankshaft to see how light it can allow the Lada/Fiat engine to operate. That would be interesting.
Who out here in the comments could even machine a balanced crankshaft? Hats off for the show knowing it would fail with heat. You guys always produce interesting attempts with expected results! Fun to watch and educational. Thanks!
I can.
@@1magnit Glad you have the proper equipment. Hats off to you also.
Im waiting for a all aluminum lada. Like 3 second fast.
back in the 70's etc when they were making deep diving crab suits (bearing joint angle things) out of aluminum they were using mass compression forges and heat curing to make incredibly tough alloys. I suspect such would result in better wear surfaces on the crank but the application structure and method for the journals and slips on the block would be where you'd have to mill to fit the crank instead of the other way.
Love how wild you guys are with your projects, it's always refreshing to see what you guys can do.
Keep it up!
I remember suggesting this fun idea with no chance of success, but high in entertainment value.
I was staggered to just see the title of this video.
I never once, EVER thought that an aluminum crank would in any way survive, let alone work.
A titanium crank might be nice.
Titanium will not work because it does not tolerate friction well and will start to peel quickly. It is true that it is lighter and harder than steel, but because of this it is mostly used only for connecting rods, or for components that have friction-resistant materials in between (bearings). It is true that titanium connecting rods have a bearing in between, but they are on the side where the bearing is fixed and does not wear.
@@bernymonty22Also extremely cost prohibitive and difficult to machine.
@@justinmiller1191 its not about the weight or strength . Its all about how well it handles friction and expanding as little as possible with heat. This is why cast iron is still my material of choice when it comes to engines.
@@hermanbotha1449 It works for rods why would you think it can't handle being made into a crank? It would be difficult no doubt. Machining it is a pain for sure. Thermal expansion on the aluminum likely was was messed up the aluminum but aluminum doesn't have a fatigue limit like steel and titanium so would eventually fail.
@@victorthecarguy3126The rods have an interface layer or bearing insert at the friction point to keep them from spalling out.
Harder to do on a crankshaft. Not impossible, but FAR more difficult.
Wow I am amazed that worked at all with the weight of the counter weights being off, the expansion of the aluminum and the potential flex and deformation of the aluminum.
Revisit the Crossplane crank idea, but from one solid piece of steel like you did with the alloy crank, and then get it balanced so it doesn't shake it's self to pieces..
that would be sweet. I'm not sure that balancing would save it though but certainly no harm to it.
@@martin-vv9lf providing the counter weights are sufficiently heavy at either end of the crank, they should be able to get a good degree of ballence. If you look at a V8 crank you'll notice the end counter weights a pretty beefy, just need to scale one down to a 4 cylinder size. I'd love to have a go at it myself but I don't have a lathe big enough...yet..
My brother and I put a lightened flywheel onto his Mazda RX-7 and because of the lack of inertia, it had to be revved up all the time. That, coupled with the removal of his catastrophic converter, gave it a very distinctive exhaust note with extremely fast Rev acceleration. It is a good thing that the light and flywheel came with a heavy duty clutch to handle all of the slippage that it would be subjected to upon take off! PS, I enjoy your presentations!
Here's a thought for you to ruminate on... Four part races with cylindrical roller bearings for the crank and rod bearing journals. At least you won't have to put up with debris in your oil pan. Think of the frictional coefficients (or lack thereof), involved if you need a reason to try.
I had a similar idea. Since they are custom making a crank , might as well work in a roller setup.
All things considered, I would hate to see how much it will cost to have it made by engineering. . . easily 10 times the price of 20 ladas. Its still nice that someone tried it so all of us can stop wondering.....poor lada....
@@hermanbotha1449 Well, I hoping they at least try...
Don"t forget to click to analyze.
Click analyze? What do you mean?
@@qpSubZeroqp Yes
Huh, I dont understand what you mean‘t by „to analyze“?
@@franzbeckenbauer7490 My guy. have watched this video or what? life would be easier if IQ score was displayed publicly.
@@franzbeckenbauer7490 it pops up on the screen at around the 3:30 mark. Usually this happens when somebody is editing the video in Adobe Premiere, tries to apply the image stabilizer, but forgets to actually execute the stabilization process.
Wow the Lada miss that car so much my uncle owned like 5 of them through out his lifetime great little cars
It will be cool to use aluminum connecting rod and crank shaft with a brass main bearing
you guys have a lot of talent running a mill and lathe to make a crank; what great work and know how.
The engine ran so quietly because the soft aluminum absorbed the impacts of the power strokes, instead of resounding from being hit by the connecting rods when the cylinders fired. My theory 🙂
sounds good to me!
You guys are the best at fabricating engine parts or any kind of part for the experiments you all put together kudos to you all. the maching work is excellent .
Ahhhh, it's almost nostalgic to hear the "translation by."
You should try Hard Anodising on the crank and open up the bearing clearances.
Click analyze to begin?
Adobe premiere lol
Pause the video
Warp Stabilizer
Yes! I've been waiting for this video since you guys did the aluminum valves. This video made my day thank you
It will never last. Alumium will give way, it has no tensil strengh. It will rev up quickly tough with that light flywheel.
A fully aluminum engine sounds like a dream. It could be so quiet, smooth, and efficient.
0:49 Ah the fun of manual Lathes and Mills!
For it to work best the journal contact points of the crankshaft should be made of steel while the rest of the weights and whatnot be aluminum, it would all have to come into place with wedge joints and then be welded
It would be a fair bit of work, but the results would probably be rewarding
This is the answer
Oil not working on aluminum surface
If you look closely, all the contact surfaces that operate on the aluminum blocks are iron
Under normal working conditions, it doesn't generate a lot of heat
You don't have to worry too much about the expansion coefficient
That was a worthy experiment.
I was hoping the ceramic would protect the aluminium from chewing out and i agree that there should have been a lot more ceramic.
I would love it if you did a part 2 of this one with some modifications from what you have learned already.
Thanks guys!
Please try to make engine with carbon fiber parts (where possible)!
fiber block with cast iron tubes?
@@juhajuntunen7866 yeah, with Carbon pistons and connecting rods maybe.
You guys are awesome. It's pretty fun for me to see what we can do as humans. Well done!
click analyze to begin
i was wondering what that is too
@@subg9165 I think it's from the camera they are using 🤔🤔🤔
@@chibalkin actually it's from the editing software (the "click analyze..." bar usually pops up when you apply the image stabilizer to a video file, but forget to actually run the stabilizer).
I like this channel. They test all the things i wonder about. I especially like the ball bearing crank video.
Hello there! Have a great Weekend!🙌🏼🙌🏼
My wife suggests you run an engine on peanut butter as fuel. I'm not sure how this would work but if anyone can do it, it's Garage54!
Seen the title and said holy,,,,, these guys are nuts!! And I like it.
It really feels like you guys are on to something here. If I were to try making the shaf again, I would try machining down the bearing surface and using high temperature solder, attach high carbon steel surface in 2 half-moon pieces to the shafts bearing surface. A good idea would be to probably use threaded locking pins to lock the carbon steel in place and just weld shut the ends.
I haven't felt this much excitement about a project in a while. The engine was super quiet, especially for an old lada.
that was an amazing video, very well done, considering you did all that work and still have the crankshaft, i wonder what would happen if you made the bearing clearance much bigger and used a MUCH MUCH thicker oil would it last any longer? , you guys are amazing please keep up the great work
Whether it worked or not the crankshaft was a thing of beauty.
You got to love the engineers in these vids. I my slef anengineer do respect the effort and thoight you dudes put in ❤
well it didnt last, but maybe this is just the experimental start. BECAUSE IT DID WORK, and was exciting to see. maybe like other aluminum parts there just need to be steel inserts at the journals for bearings to ride on. i love that, "you cant do that", does not reside in this shop. GREAT JOB😊
You guys need to combine ALL you lightweight things together in one engine!
Я приветствую ваше желание экспериментировать и исследовать работу двигателя. Спасибо за это видео. Привет из Огайо, США.
Great video, this was a great experiment, I think with a few tweaks you may have something, ie .003 running clearance, a fresh grind and some other high tech coating or maybe a better aluminum alloy.
Damn, you guys always go all out on these. That was some hardcore machining just for an experiment!
im impressed that the after all that, the crank didnt bend or broke
Yeah the aluminium expanded for sure and most likely caused that. A bit similar thing happened on M539 Restorations channel too. I can't exactly remember how it was but I think Sreten got aluminium sleeves in a cast iron block and that caused the pistons to first eat up the aluminium sleeves and then when the aluminium sleeves cooled, the pistons started to cause piston slap and the pistons and the sleeves were destroyed.
Here the aluminium crankshaft expanded so much that the clearances went away, oil film went away and then the two metals started to eat and melt each other out, even when there was ceramic coating on the crank.
So I think if you try to install an aluminium crank to your car, you need a ton of clearances and such bearing and connecting rod materials which can take that beating of loose clearances before the crankshaft expands and the clearances become much smaller.
Props to the machinist. Nice work.
Every idea on this channel is amazing
That is some nice machining :O never seen a crankshaft being made before.
Got to live these guys, they come up with all sorts of crazy ideas. Also the fuel filter looked empty alot of the you were driving!!.
Loved the video. I always wondered if it was possible to be done. Carbon fiber also intrigues me, since it's even more resistant than aluminum and lightweight, tough the coating would be a problem.
You could try to lower the main journals and crankpins diameter and use a hard steel fixed bushing to compensate for the size, and also for durability while keeping ~>98% of the pure duralumin crankshaft weight. Also, tolerances for heat expansion are to be taken, since aluminum expands a lot more than steel.
the chemicals and heat would eat carbon fiber alive.
@@zangetsu6638 Yeah, I figured. I know the material itself is pretty resistant to temps, but the resin is a problem, as far as I know, epoxi resin is used along with the carbon fiber sheets and that would be the main problem, if another bonding material who'd be more resistant to temps could be used then it wouldn't mean a problem.
Regarding chemicals, oil companies could develop a non damaging oil for those kind of engines too, I'm sure there's a way. (keep in mind this is all hypothetical and I don't know a lot about carbon fiber)
@@ayuwoker hey man, that would be cool if the chemicals in the engine enviornment were designed to be carbon fiber friendly, and if they could find a better resin! good ideas!
@@zangetsu6638 future racing tech incoming? Hehehe, can't wait for them Hondas to rev past 20k 🤣🤣
@@ayuwoker i've heard (but i haven't verified) that some Porsches use titanium crankshafts!
1:35 ... Loved the mahoning video!! .. Very nice setup!!!
He's right about that cranking yes I'd be worried about the drone too cuz there's a lot of pressure set alarm for little motor I hooked a lot of motor survives anyway you guys are awesome man America loves you keep up the good work❤❤❤❤
You guys get more technically advanced with every vid. Bravissimo!! 👍
You are gettin more and more professional out there deep in Russia.
This is one of your best ones.I think the best idea. Maybe if you could spray that nickel and crome powder spray and then heat it up. You know how they do it. How are they doing that with gears and other steel gears. Maybe you could do that on the journals of all the crank shaft and cam shafts and some mathematics. I know you've probably thought about that already.That's a little more work, though, but look like.Look what you're doing.You're developing something I like it.😊
That ceramic coating is super cool
That's a lot of effort for a short video. Keep up the good work. It is entertaining for sure.
How about using cast iron bearings and using something like T6 aluminum for crank? Also more tolerance for a bit thinker oil. That might work?
Fun project guys!😃👍👍
you guys are stepping it up a notch with this - awesome! 😃
Nice, wonder if very hard steel bearings may have done the trick here, A2 Tool Steel for instance would keep the softer material in check...
Changing just the connecting rods with lightweight rods on a stock engine makes a huge difference in performance.
These guys are fun to watch.
Great job guys!
54 i love what you guys do i think fhe issue is aluminum exspands several times more than steel and if the tolerance is thin youll just seeze up once she heats up.
You already did gold valves, now it’s time for the gold crankshaft too😏
So I normally watch these in amusement. But I think you may have something here.
Rather than relying solely on duralum maybe make some form of steel race that goes around the aluminum bearing surfaces for the normal conrod and mains bearings to ride on.
This was a genuinely interesting idea. And don't forget to make a Steel area for the thrust bearings to ride on.
I say cut the crank so it has more clearance and retest. You guys did a great job cutting out a crank from a solid piece.
I love how when something fails you take it apart and see what it is in the same video.
Id love to see how it worked over the long term. That could be great for hot rodders!
I think it is time for you guys to build a completely custom engine with all the tricks and improvements you have learned over the years.
Super cool project.
I knew right from the beginning it would grow to seizure. But I think replace the bearings with leather. Or else machine with large clearances. .0075" on both should do and run streight 50 oil. But really cool video.
PLEASE MAKE ANOTHER WITH EXTRA CLEARANCE that was pretty damn cool. worth trying to make it work. could be a slapper when cold and quiet when hot!!
Never see you work on a Niva here! Niva love from Australia!
You are crazy Guy's.... I almost see yours all videos
Chroming the journals and running the same clearances as you would when running Al rods would help, but mostly hard chrome plating the journals.
Then I seen the scale and holy,,,, these guys are nuts!!! .COOL!
You know what's better than making a lighter rotating assembly? A very well balanced one