Defining Possible with Cannon-Based Air Defense

Cannon-Based Air Defense - or CBAD - integrates sensors, battle management command and control, and effectors to provide scalable, cost effective, and resilient terminal defense against a wide range of aerial threats.
Leveraging proven technology of guided ammunition and cannons, CBAD offers a high rate of fire and effective magazine depth against large raids.
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[@altf4834]

Never thought World War 2 styled air defenses would come back. Even 8.8cm flak is making a return.

[@raptor2265]

When the targets become cheaper, the countermeasures must too. Anti-aircraft artillery is the cheapest form of air defense, and while it has limited range (unable to intercept hundreds of miles out like with missiles), it still has a place in providing point defense for specific locations.

[@oim8254]

@@raptor2265 Laser is the cheapest air defense solution.
Laser weapon literally doesn't need physical ammunition to use laser. You can't get more cheaper than that.

[@zulualpha3551]

@@oim8254 The problem with laser is its performance is very weather-dependent.

[@ericwillis7127]

It's good that cheap, attritable drones are getting people to think seriously about cost-exchange ratios.

[@sunrisejackdaw1779]

I wonder, though. Electricity is much cheaper. Sha136 uses GPS targeting, so some GPS techniques might be able to walk it off target entirely? As well, modern missiles assume combat under large electronic warfare attack, or attacking targets with electronic defense.
But drones usually can't fit these. Price and mass. Defeat with very cheap swarmers guided by radio or beamride?

[@ericwillis7127]

It's a little hard to parse out what you're saying here. I completely agree that the electronics aboard "cheap, attritable drones" and guided shells will be subject to very strong size, weight and power (SWaP) constraints, with very real consequences for their EW capabilities, in particular the ability of the drone to jam the shell's proximity fuse and cause a premature airburst, and the ability of the shell to defeat this jamming. What's important to note that, because both the offensive drones and defensive shells are small and cheap, they will BOTH be subject to these strong SWaP constraints, more or less leveling the playing field.
GNSS spoofing would certainly be a very cheap way to counter a suicide drone attack, but it would certainly not be an option in every tactical situation.
@@sunrisejackdaw1779

[@oim8254]

Laser is the cheapest air defense solution against drones and missiles. There's no reason to use anti-aircraft artillery when laser doesn't need physical ammunition to work.

[@ericwillis7127]

@@oim8254 You're absolutely right that lasers will only become more important to air defense in the future. Every day, diode-pumped fiber lasers and diode-pumped alkali lasers are better able to meet the challenging size, weight and power requirements. And of course, directed energy weapons have the deepest magazines of all. But you shouldn't underestimate the challenges of getting a small laser spot size on the target, i.e. using adaptive optics to compensate for distortion of the beam by the heterogeneous atmosphere. Also, hardening drones against laser weapons might impose much less of a weight penalty than hardening them against HE and KE projectiles. For example, the lightweight ablative thermal protection systems of reentry vehicles dissipate many more MW/cm2 than any laser could possibly hope to put on target. For the foreseeable future, air defense will involve some mix of conventional and directed-energy weapons.

[@thevulcan2011]

After decade of missile based air defense. Now we brig back the concept of air defense from 80s - AA gun. Such a cycle of solution

[@tylerclayton6081]

It’s both now. AA became irrelevant for a couple decades until the advent of cheap drones

[@rsKayiira]

This is the best thing I have seen in ground based air defence the past few years

[@galadeth]

1:54 display shows B-2 bombers but later on the B-21s are flying

[@philchristmas4071]

Imagine bringing back the battleships firing huge rounds and incoming missiles. The blast radius of rounds that big could take out drone swarms.

[@raptor2265]

Honestly, I can foresee battleships making a comeback in the next half century. With more advanced countermeasures, you’re going to need some kind of munitions that can be hit several times and still make their way to the target. A missile or drone may be torn apart by cannon fire, but a large, solid battleship shell? Well, even if you mangle the outside of it, you’re still having a 1-ton hunk of metal with a LOT of kinetic energy barreling towards you.
Now, while I doubt we’ll see the legendary Iowa-class battleships brought back into service, I can imagine a new class of ships equipped with smart cannon systems being designed and built.
Plus, even advanced, guided artillery shells are FAR cheaper per shot than a missile. They may not have the same range, but with technologies like rocket or ramjet-assisted shells, or possibly even railguns, you can get a lot closer to the range of a missile for far less cost, as well as greater magazine capacity and fire rate. Not to mention the ability to reload the magazine while underway; ships with vertical launch systems (VLS) require cranes to load in the missile tubes, and cannot do so while underway due to the swaying of the ship. Cannon shells, on the other hand, can be easily rolled into a magazine below decks.

[@sunrisejackdaw1779]

​@@raptor2265Ranges too short. Make them guided and they're crappified missiles. Can't benefit from low visibility shells so radar can see them and engage them. Worse payloads too.
Plus, against aggressively maneuvering threats, they got no self propulsion.

[@raptor2265]

@@sunrisejackdaw1779 You literally didn't read anything that I wrote beyond the first sentence. There's ramjet and rocket-assisted shells that give them a range comparable to missiles at a fraction of the cost, there's GPS-guided shells with pop-out fins to guide it to the target, and the sheer kinetic energy and density of the projectile makes them extremely difficult to shoot down. With a missile, you simply need to rupture the casing of the rocket motor and the entire thing disintegrates; with an enormous solid chunk of steel, you could riddle it with a hundred rounds and it would continue barreling towards the target. Sure, it may be cosmetically mangled, but it will still deliver enough kinetic energy to strike a devastating blow.

[@DanielH.-sg8oo]

Isn't that similar in concept to the 18-inch Type 3 'Beehive' anti-aircraft shells used by the IJN Yamato-class battleships back in WW2? Didn't work out too well for them - but then again, the Japs didn't have radar-guided gunnery or proximity fuses...

[@tacticalmanatee]

What platform is the Medium Range system? Doesn't look like anything currently fielded.

[@nicolepham3836]

likely a truck mounted XM913 or other 50-60mm caliber autocannon

[@BravoCheesecake]

Never noticed the B-21 easter-egg here.

[@SW-lc1wx]

After all these years... We're just returning to flak, lmao

[@tyvernoverlord5363]

"There's nothing new under the sun" It just took 60 years to get back to it, but its "new" once more!

[@vcream_liberty8324]

Как всегда команда Northrop Grumman восхищает! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Надеюсь это останется лишь в задумках 👌😅

[@HEoTIIyCKaET]

на таких балбесов как ты этот бред и рассчитан. а будет как с украми в Куеве где Пэтриот в автоматическом режиме сделал полный залп за пол минуты а потом получил удар Кинжалом)

[@Husker513]

У DARPA есть видио где пуля от снайпера наводится на цель

[@vcream_liberty8324]

@@Husker513 Благодарю за заманчивую наводку товарищ 🙌🏻

[@dastankuspaev9217]

Размечтался

[@vcream_liberty8324]

@@dastankuspaev9217 Не факт что мои последние слова не сарказм 😏

[@Husker513]

How one guided bullet cost?

[@atacms2020]

Even at a few thousand dollars, that's cheaper than tens of thousands or millions for a single high end missile.

[@Husker513]

@@atacms2020 i know but just interested

[@MrScribblypoo]

@@Husker513 a 155 mm one is prob like over a thousand. Still worth it.

[@aidanmattson681]

@@atacms2020your numbers are off.
Guided rounds tend to be in the 10-20k range.
Most “cheap” missiles are 1-200k and a lot are 1 million +.

[@apolloaero]

Depending on the missile, it can be as cheap as 300k or 400k for shorter ranged AIM-9X or up to $4 million for SM-6. For guided projectiles, it also depends. Idk for these specifically, but they tend to range from tens of thousands to slightly over 100k for larger sizes, such as 127mm or 155mm. So maybe you're looking at 100k at the high end, and much less for 30mm. You sacrifice range but gain in magazine depth. And these are perfect for low performance UAVs. They're good if a soft kill fails, like DEWs

[@cleo1488]

Send it to Ukraine for a test

[@dk1064]

Should give Ukraine army

[@geuse_chandesu4273]

Rheinmetall has been doing this for years now

[@MrKylekincaid]

They make guided bullets?

[@atacms2020]

No, so the fellow who mentioned Rheinmetall is confusing Skyranger with airbursting proximity rounds which the Skyranger has. They have not yet developed guided rounds as small as 50mm.@@MrKylekincaid

[@dastankuspaev9217]

Germans already have it

[@lukejohnston4666]

More option more merrier! 😊

[@warkopvalhalla708]

The Swedes too with their 3P munitions

[@wilhelmvongotfrid2596]

Очевидно, что для эффективной защиты Украины от шахедов нужны подобные системы. Rheinmetall должен также уже поставить свои skyguard с AHEAD боеприпасами.

[@Husker513]

Должен? нечего они вам не должны

[@HEoTIIyCKaET]

фуфлыжные мультики не имеющие ничего общего с реальностью)

[@SuperTf2fan]

Proximity fuses and guided shells have been a thing for like, 80 years, wtf are you talking about?

[@Husker513]

​​@@SuperTf2fanit's russian, brainwashed creature, don't pay attention to him

[@AllDay3090]

You must be sad because 250k of your buddies are rotting in Ukraine

[@AllDay3090]

*2 5 0 , 0 0 0* 🇷🇺 🐷 ☠️ ⚰️

[@wilhelmvongotfrid2596]

ты про путинские мультфильмы то?