@@brwntrout5468 Mariner is noted to have received demotions in the past (not including when her mother promoted her to teach her a lesson and later demoted her)
Harry Kim is stuck permanently at the rank of ensign but given more work to do. His alternate universe promotions all got erased. It sucks to go into and organization to come out at the same rank you started as.
No but you are. Tilly is qualified given everything they've gone through. I'm honestly shocked she wasn't given a promotion or field promotion at the very least. The people manning their stations are needed at those stations on the bridge. They're in new waters. Someone else would have to take over as the bridge officer there. In this case it makes the most sense to bring someone on as First Officer who can be trusted, whos shown to be dedicated to her post and serving it, and who can be relied on. Given what we saw from Tilly, Saru was right. Otherwise Tilly would have had to be learning how to fly the ship or run ops or tactical or comms.
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 In-universe, the decision makes little sense. Tilly hasnae even gone through any command training, let alone has the experience to take on the responsibility of an XO. But, of course, the writers dinnae give a fuck and do wha'ever they want because who needs continuity or logic.
Lmfao you haven't even seen the show dude. Tilly didn't receive command training? She's been in the command training program since the last episode of Season 1 when she was awarded a medal. But sure. No command training hurr durr lolololol
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 i don't think that's what he was trying to say. i think he was saying that even with command training there is still a logical in universe line of people to chose from, i totally agree that she shouldn't still be an ensign. its almost dumb that she still is. she should be about Lieutenant by now. regardless for a captain to pick a first officer that's not a Lieutenant Commander up with command training is exceedingly rare on any normal starship, whoever not unheard of. due to long term journeys though space a few ships have had command structures that worked this way like voyager, though this is usually due to picking up a family like structure due to the time spent together.
One thing I credit Discovery with is that they started with the characters all being very raw. If you look back to earlier series, most of the main characters were already fully-developed. Kirk was the talented young officer who made captain in his early 30's because he was already that good, Picard was the experienced explorer, etc. They were surrounded by top notch officers who were already fit into their roles. The crew of Discovery has (amusingly given the name) been discovering themselves. It's called character development and it's good.
From the clips I've seen it doesn't seem unreasonable to think they are constructing long character arcs. Very satisfying to see fresh raw characters honed into veterans.
My issue with the series is that they haven’t included the rest of the crew in the main plot as much. It’s just Michael acting completely reckless and somehow getting away with it, while simultaneously criticising anyone else who acts recklessly. Star Trek has always been progressive with, but with Discovery, they seem to be treating it as a box ticking exercise, rather than giving the non-binary or trans characters more involvement in the main plot.
I know, right? I have nothing against this plot development, but I think Harry Kim is spinning so fast in his grave that he could probably be used as an alternate energy source.
If you've ever been in any kind of military-type organization and you watch this thinking you've never seen anything like this before - you're absolutely correct. A captain (O-6) wouldn't appoint his O-1 as a senior leader and bypass dozens of other more experienced officers. Nor would the entire crew lovingly encourage the O-1 to take the position because they know her and love her.
...and yet I suddenly don't see any hardcore Trekkies rushing to point out that Starfleet isn't military and that Janeway's own XO wasn't even Starfleet to begin with. Clearly their love of Star Trek is only a thing when actively looking for excuses to shit on anything newer than ENT.
Wrong. The people manning their stations are needed at those stations on the bridge. They're in new waters. Someone else would have to take over as the bridge officer there. In this case it makes the most sense to bring someone on as First Officer who can be trusted, whos shown to be dedicated to her post and serving it, and who can be relied on. Given what we saw from Tilly, Saru was right. Otherwise Tilly would have had to be learning how to fly the ship or run ops or tactical or comms. Not to mention that the military-type organization didn't go through fucking TIME.
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 yeah but the pacing is all wrong. This charecter is sooooo not leadership material yet with her casual personality. She doesnt seem serious enough. And Janeway made Chacotay her CO because half the crew was in his faction. It was a power move to ensure the loyalty of the rest of the crew.
@@steverico3090 Janeway and Voyager are irrelevant. Moving on. The pacing is not wrong. This is a ship that has been flung into the future. The only people they know are each other. They need a first officer who cares for them, looks out for them, is willing to make hard decisions and is willing to sacrifice themselves. Tilly has proved every single one of those criteria. Your ignorance and stupidity is invalid. Try again.
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 lol sorry I meant to respond to the person above you but voyager is put in the same position by getting stuck far away from home and only having each other. Im sorry but her personality isnt really for the space military or at least command of a ship. She is too easygoing and casual. Officers need both fear and respect. It is an authority figure and the lively way she acts doesnt really fit. Especially when shes like an ensign
Rank and Position are not always mutually exclusive. There are many instances in Trek past of an Ensign holding a position previously established as requiring higher rank and experience, as well as one's service rank not matching their shipboard rank and position. Also officers being promoted much faster than regulations would demand (Geordi),... while others who deserve to be promoted never get promoted at all (Kim). And on top of all of that, we also see instances of Ensigns (Kim again) serving duty shifts as Captain.
@@Mortlupo it will happen if the Captain says so, and the crew does not object. The other issue is, who would be the choice you would make that wouldn't create a big hole in the position they previously held? You know, since we clearly don't want Burnham there. You don't take Stamets, because his remaining in Engineering is absolutely essential on that ship. You don't take Culber, because the ship's Doctor is the most important position to remain as such on any ship. They are the wrong divisions to begin with. Who IS there in Command division? Virtually everyone else is Science or Engineering. Science is often the typical choice, but again... Burnham disqualified herself, and we didn't want her there anyway, did we? I don't think we'd complain too hard if we saw Ensign Chekov manning the bridge in TOS while Kirk and Spock were away (and one of those episodes where Sulu is not around) Honestly, rank is the only thing some people see. That's just your pay grade, quite frankly. And in Star Trek, what rank you hold is often fluid based on your position anyway. Hell, in TMP, we saw Captain Decker demoted to Commander because he was serving as XO, and Kirk demoted HIMSELF down to Captain (from two ranks higher). And then there's Battlestar Galactica, we've seen Lee Adama jump several ranks when he was given the Pegasus, and we eventually saw Lieutenant Hoshi become Admiral when Bill Adama left. And I heard NOBODY bitching about that.... and Galactica is several orders of magnitude MORE militaristic than Star Trek has ever been.
@@j-lgroen1239 I am not a "Discovery apologist" I am a staunch supporter, believer, and follower of the core principal of Star Trek since its very inception - IDIC Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations I support every incarnation of Star Trek, regardless of whether or not I enjoy it. I could dislike everything I am seeing but I will still defend its right to exist with my dying breath. You know.... like the fandom at large refused to do for Enterprise, and so it was cancelled as it was not only getting good, but quite excellent. I used to be one of those hater types back when Deep Space Nine started. I spouted out all the tired arbitrary talking points and refused to give it a chance. It wasn't until much later that I looked back and saw how amazing it truly was. It not only became my favorite Star Trek series of all time, but the catalyst for my vow that I would NEVER be that person ever again. Meanwhile, I also look at things with objective eyes and see that the hate aimed at Discovery is the same as that against Enterprise and DS9 and even TNG. The only difference is social media did not exist back then, so we could not see it as much. You had to actually deliberately look for magazine articles to even see it. But it WAS there, it was fierce, and it was just as pointless and wrong as it is now. If one wants to hate CBS All Access / Paramount+, I would be right there with them. I thought it was a terrible decision from the get-go, but that has nothing at all to do with the quality of the shows. Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks. Supporting the shows does not mean supporting the Network, as I still refuse to pay for it. But I also refuse to pirate it, because I am not THAT kind of person either.
Brevet promotions are not unheard of during wartime. Custer was a Lt. Colonel, not a general. I do agree passing over so many Liutenents for an ensign seems suspect, but making Cadet Kirk, the Captain of Starfleet's Flagship in the reboot was totally bananas. (That was my only big concern with an otherwise entertaining movie.)
It occurs to me that Saru is hedging his bets. He needs somebody to do the XO job. It's a logical step in Tilly's command training. And it's only an *acting* position, not a permanent promotion. Notice that he said *nothing* about changing her rank. If he needs to reassign her, he can at any time. Should a suitable permanent candidate of higher rank become available, he can give them the job without any problems.
@@daniels7907 This is not fiction, this is ridiculous. They don't need to be in the US military to understand, that they should act rationally. Position of first officer is not a position of personal assistant. No matter if it's military base, police station or a simple cargo freighter.
Remember, she's only "acting". Saru hasn't actually promoted her to commander. This is brevet rank, which is why he didn't even need to clear it with Admiral Vance.
@@daniels7907 Acting or not, it is irrelevant. She is not competent for promotion to such job. That is the problem. Ranks indicates the amount of training, experience, personal maturity and proven competence. It is not just some social status that can be ignored. It is one of several parts of organisational system that among other things, saves people from dying in critical situations.
Hmm... I actually had a 1 rank temporary pay raise acting in a 3 rank temporary promotion capacity while I was in the air force (until all the capable people came back from Yugoslavia and I was back as "ensign" again) but it were a good few months of learning experience (though administrative leadership ain't the same a spaceship No.1)
@@Lukas-Trnka A Next Generation episode had the Enterprise disabled in space and Counsellor Troi had to take command because she was a Lieutenant Commander with no command experience. That kicked her in the ass to get her command training along with Dr. Commander Crusher. Both women later got their bridge officer certifications and promoted in rank.
Ranks indicate nothing. Ensign Kim for example was the most competent and valued member of the crew, but he remained as Ensign... in a position that demands a Lieutenant Commander,... while Navy regulations would have given practically automatic promotion from Ensign to Lieutenant JG after 2 years... Thats not even mentioning field promotions, or officers manning duty shifts in the captain's chair while well below any command rank. Also including Ensign Kim. And then we see Geordi LaForge, who only spent one year as Lieutenant when Navy regulations require 3 years in that rank before reaching Lieutenant Commander. ... and Worf spent nearly double that time before getting his promotion. Starfleet has absolutely no consistency when it comes to rank and position. It never has,... so why should it now? Whether you feel "Starfleet is not a Military organization" as Picard said (in which case such regulations are unimportant), or if you feel Starfleet IS in fact military (so explain why those regulations were constantly ignored).
Actually General George Custard was given the wrong rank of General during the Civil War but because of his ability to lead the position was kept and commissioned. General Douglas McArthur promoted a PFC to the rank of Sgt. Because he showed great courage under fire and his ability to give commands to his unit when the Sgt was K.I.A.
Custer was a brevet brigadier general during The Civil War, and when the conflict was over his rank reverted to his regular army rank. When he died at the Little Bighorn his rank was Lt. Colonel.
"Why would you appoint the least qualified person on the ship to be your Number One?" "We have a small cast and most are too busy crying or naval gazing."
A Starfleet officer going against Starfleet regulations? Oh yeah, that is unprecedent, never ever happend in the history of the franchise. *insert sarcastic voice*
@@globe1987 Yes. And what about it? Because it still doesn't contradict Charles Batchelor's statement and it doesn't explain that nonsence that happened in that episode.
There is also a little thing called "Captain's Prerogative" which allows them many unilateral actions when it comes to their own ship, including assigning officers wherever they choose, regardless of rank. There is also the matter of how ship operations would be affected if you remove an officer from their primary duties by adding the duties of First Officer on top of it. Stamets may have been next in line by rank, but it would be near impossible to remove him from Engineering, as the Spore Drive is literally dependent upon him. The Doctor is off the list as the duties in sickbay take priority in all such regards (also why you'd never see McCoy, Crusher, or Bashir as XO) Sciences is the most logical position to have dual responsibilities as XO, but Burnham's removal disqualifies her from this Not really any other good potential options among the bridge crew, not without compromising the position they already hold. Honestly, Tilly as the versatile utility player, from consistency of performance as well as field-proven abilities, makes her the ideal candidate. Yes, she is just Ensign, but so what? Even the perpetual Ensign Kim has served shifts in the Captain's chair. Hell, regulations alone would have demanded that both Tilly and Kim receive a Lieutenant Junior Grade promotion after the second year, but their performance (and Starfleet's propensity for skipping time in service regulations accordingly) would have cut that time in half. Let us not forget, Geordi LaForge only spent one year as Lieutenant before being promoted to Lieutenant Commander. Navy regulations require three years as Lieutenant before being eligible for Lieutenant Commander, so clearly Starfleet does not strictly hold to these. And we haven't even gotten to the subject of field promotions. And going back to Ensign Kim, as we're talking about Ensigns holding positions they aren't of proper rank for, Next Generation did establish Operations as a position requiring a Lieutenant or higher. So as we can see, there is not only rationale for it, but precedent within previous Star Trek for it as well.
@@jackolantiltin3938 That is a good point, however it really doesn't change the case, because both Worf and Geordi were senior officers, with enough experience and authority among the crew to perform this temporary assignment. Both of them were valid candidates. Unlike Tilly.
Best part for me is Number 1 gets they own room much bigger and more luxurious but being roomates with Michael is going to be first thing she ask for 😅 if anything Michael sleeping on her couch in the first officers quarters
There are at least three duty shifts, if not four. The senior officer is not sitting at duty station 24/7, there are two or three other officers or enlisted personnel to man those positions during the other shifts. Also "right out of the academy"? Tilly has been Ensign since season 1. Navy regulations alone (nevermind experience and performance) would have seen her promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade by now
@@k1productions87 Three or four full duty shifts and still they were all passed over to promote an ensign with no prior experience to be 2nd in command. Normal training and promotion fosters familiarity with the ship's systems so command personnel would have trained in most departments with regular rotations through as they are being groomed for promotions.
@@waiting4t-araot624 None pf them were in command division. They were all science or engineering. Division is every bit as important as rank. Very rarely did a non-command officer ever get (or even want) command except in alternate futures (which were set 15-25 years later). Further, did ANYONE object to her job promotion? Many had cause and opportunity to dispute the decision, but no one did. Why? Because they all trusted her and felt she would be best for the job. And in the end, that is more important. Who is best for the job.
@@waiting4t-araot624 its not real life. Its fiction. The script is all that matters. Meanwhile, in Star Trek’s own past, junior officers had been put in leadership over senior officers all the time. It just so happens, in many of those instances, the script wanted the person of higher rank to be indignant and bitchy. Classic example, “Arsenal of Freedom” (TNG) And at that time, Geordi was in command division, not engineering
You don't need knowledge or experience you can just wing it make me feel all positive like I can do anything, I'd make a good brain surgeon any volunteers?
This is a show that has simultaneously shown excessive gore and cruelty AND extreme infantilisation and silliness. Some theories exist about what it is, a farce, a comedic attempt, an attempt to cross Comic books with Trek. I think it was an attempt to sabotage Trek's legacy. Unfortunately Picard isn't good enough to make sure it fails.
@@annam3243 But still, most of them didn't watch the episode since they don't know that she's not even sure if she'll accept the position because she knows she's an ensign that didn't complete the command training program. It was the rest of the crew that told her to say yes. It was a nice scene, they just simply can't accept new things.
Join the military, then you’ll know why this is the dumbest shit ever conceived. Here’s an example of rank structure in the military in determining who you would select to be in charge. Among enlisted Soldiers of the same grade in active military service, to include retired enlisted Soldiers on active duty, precedence or relative grade will be determined as follows- a. According to date of rank. b. By length of active Federal Service in the Army when dates of rank are the same. c. By length of total active Federal Service when a and b, above are the same. d. By date of birth when a, b, and c are the same-older is more senior. So let’s say I love Ensign tilly and know she would make a better first officer than my other options. I wouldn’t be allowed to give her the position if there are higher ranking people on board. It’s just the way it works
Could you imagine..in the real Star Trek Universe, these people going up against grown a$$ villains that have learned how not to act like a hormonal teenager? I mean seriously...theoretically think of what would happen if say, the real, mad with vengeance Khan Noonian Singh encountered these goofs before finding Admiral Kirk and the Enterprise?
There would be a bright flash in a sky of an alien planet that no would care about! That would be The Discovery Exploding with all hands! And then Khan would go to fight the Enterprise!
Man. You seriosuly need to watch the Original Series if you think that the Enterprise crew didn't act informaly all the time. Fucking Bones had little patience for snobs, Kirk was screwing every woman he found and cracking jokes like there was no tomorrow, and Scotty was horny half of the time, and drunk the other. If anything the Discovery crew is more formal than the Enterprise crew. Besides. They are not military. The Starfleet crews are 90% of the time exploratory and scientific vessels. Which, in real life, have a way more informal relationship than in the military.
@@nachoolo You are also taking about a series from 1960, which is clearly going to have aspects of that era woven in to it. That is the reason you did not mention any of the new series because your argument would fall flat. The only crew that acted this informally was Voyager and they had a 50 year reason to do so. However they still acted like officers on a ship and not like kids from the Disney club. Janeway did not even start to act a little informal till after 2 years.
There are probably great actors there who have been denied a chance to show their skills, they stand there in the background of that bay smiling at Tilly, no doubt thinking 'it's just a paycheck, it's just a paycheck'.
Let's compare this to real life. Take a U.S. aircraft carrier during wartime. There is an ensign with a year in service, working, say, in communications. The aircraft carrier loses its second in command during a battle so the ships Captain calls down to that ensign and says..."You are really great, get up here and take over second in command. Don't worry about all the experienced officers you will be overstepping. You are just the neatest person and, hey, why not".........That is about as asinine as what Star Trek Discovery is trying to stuff down our throats....
Even if the O1 LT is sharp and well-liked, that LT is not experienced enough to function as an 05-O6 equivalent. Second in command isn't an on-the-job training position.
Tilly is the longest serving ensign until she is promoted 900 years later. Meanwhile, Harry Kim is still an ensign and still not promoted till his death
Saw this coming a mile off and only confirms my theory, I think they hinted it in episode 5 and based on her character arc this season, I can see burnham (maybe not this season but next) becoming captain of discovery with tilly as her first officer, Saru will be Admiral, seems like he's more suited to an admiral role then captain, well see Either way this is gonna piss off people, I love it
I don't think it will bother people because she is only acting XO. The way this show is, Burnham could get the position back as this simply seems to be a plot device holder. Saru never took the time to learn why Burnham was acting strange and promptly passed judgment on her for giving him the Captain's chair saying he couldn't trust her. Saru demands trust, but didn't give it to Burnham or Vance in return and can be quick to dismiss important opposing viewpoints. In this episode, Saru got to see her truth come to the surface and how she perceived she wasn't part of the crew or Federation. He also saw how that information was perceived and the problems it caused trying to get the data in the name of the Federation. Saru got to see how her mother handled it and how her viewpoints change as they worked through it without being judgmental. Both Saruband Burnham have their own version of PTSD and need to work through them. Even if Saru doesn't give her her slot back, Vance can also appoint Saru his XO should he want to and he wasn't the one who demoted her. I thought it was strange he left her punishment up to Saru and perhaps so he could undo it should be need to and not seem like an indecisive leader. Vance might also pardon her insubordination for the sake of diplomatic relations. He also stated he didn't care about it and the outcome was more than the hoped for and the mission was more important. They could put someone else in that spot, but it shouldn't take time for him to know that crew and what they are capable of after two seasons. I also don't seem them bringing another permanent cast member on the bridge.
@Daniel Zhang yeah and you could tell Saru wasn't happy with her on the bridge, but Vance ordered her told to do whatever it took. Saru would have probably gone against her once again rather than trust her with a culture she had been a part of if he didn't have standing orders. I think Burnham also pushed Saru away because he won't trust her when she trusted him. Trust is is a two way street like respect is.
I would have been upset about this if they where still in the present not the future. In the future there is a lack of officers that would be a better choice, as we all know in war time sometimes people get promoted fast.
They've done a great job through the years of giving us exemplars of wise leadership -- and of virtuous, thinking people dealing with challenges and growing in the process. Especially with Saru, Tilly, and Burnham. We have to hope that millions of young people ("kids") are soaking it all in. For the future's sake. Now think about kids growing up in poverty, or with parents who have serious problems. People need easy access to Star Trek. It shouldn't require a subscription of any kind, or even internet access. Just a t.v. and an antenna.
Considering the 1st episode of season 3 didn't even feature any of the Discovery crew at all except Michael meeting Book on the planet, I think you mean the 2nd episode when Saru took Tilly out for a walk.
@@SleakaJ nah I forget that she did many things and saved discovery multiple times ... but it is not my mistake ..discovery feel like Kindergarten.. Kindergarten but with gays , freaks and etc etc ... not with real people with ethics and Leadership qualities ..
I too felt this was a plot device holder. I wonder if Vance won't overrule Saru and put her as XO and Science Officer like Spock now that she is known as his Sister. Vance didn't trust Burnham because of who she was and had ties to when it came to the burn data. Now he realizes that she was genuinely interested in solving the burn. There is another silver badge that Burnham was wearing in the trailer that we haven't seen yet as it was quite different. So this seems to support your theory of her getting her position back. For all we know Kaminar is responsible for the burn and Saru may get dropped in rank and another Captain put in place. I say this because Saru is making a lot of out of character choices and mistakes that he shouldn't be making. Vance already had questioned the ability to trust him and his actions could be viewed as trying to sideline Burnham. He has been the XO of that ship for two seasons and he still doesn't know the crew well enough to pick a replacement?
@@kynthiamiryam9105 I wanna see Saru mouth open on the bridge...Burnham in the Captain seat on the Discovery or another ship saving them all and doing some serious ass kicking!!
@@facedown9754 Burnham being Captain on another ship wouldn't happen for more than a episode or two though because she is the main character and Discovery is the main ship. I would like to see Burnham on a Nevar ship trying to get the different groups to work together. I like seeing her deal with that culture now. Saru almost never leaves the ship and the one time he did he almost killed Burnham and Tyler on Pavo. Burnham seems to be the only Starfleet away team member as well for the ship.
@@facedown9754 your idea would be interesting if the writers pulled it off correctly. As it stands, I think that they could have made Saru and Burnham's conflict more believable so I don't trust them right now with anything like that. My problem with Tilly is more how it was written than anything really to do with the character. I do like how she is more serious, but I am not a fan of the snark she is starting to give Staments as we have enough of that with the rest of the crew. I understand she is struggling, but it would have been nice to explore a different avenue of PTSD as it is different in each individual.
I bet if this was real. Officers on that crew be like... We suck so hard he had to go to an Ensign for temp 1st officer, and they would for sure not put up with it.
Saru was *very* clear that this was an *acting* position and it does *not* come with a promotion in rank. It's basically a glorified internship as part of Tilly's command training. Complete with safety net *because* there are higher ranking officers aboard who can step in if needed.
@@daniels7907 It dosn't really change the fact that he didn't trust any officer to take to post.. Which is really sad tbh. There is sadly no escaping this fact. Don't get me wrong I'm not shitting on Tilly or complain beacuse its a girl. The point is it dosnt matter if its a girl or boy it still makes no sens. But, thats what they are going with.
@@TheSkruer - The crew is still trying to cope with the enormity of what they have done making a one-way jump to the 32nd century. Just look at Detmer and her obvious PTSD. Also, many of the higher-ranked officers are specialists like Stamets and Reno who aren't looking to sit on the bridge. Tilly is well-liked by the crew and can stand up for herself when it matters. After the disastrous dinner, I think that Saru realizes many of the bridge the crew need warm fuzzies more than they need more responsibility. What are they going to do with their lives in this new future? They're still trying to work that out. Believe me, I would be fully onboard with Stamets or Reno providing LGBTQ representation in the chair. But the way their characters are written I don't see either of them being inclined to do it. The various lieutenants on the bridge didn't seem eager to lobby for the position either. Saru can, and has, positioned this a temporary thing. Everybody on the ship knows that Tilly was in the command training program. So this comes across as training for her, and not coincidentally installing an acting XO that the crew won't be afraid to speak honestly to.
Explaining to Tilly “take a day to think about it”-makes his command abilities Questionable ! He should know everyone’s Caliber; as 6 other Officers-“Say Yes” coercion pressures her “really why me ?” Doubts..
Of course. Because of feelings. But if I were a senior officer who worked my butt off and saved countless lives and only got promoted by one step wouldn't you feel cheated. She jumped the whole lot of them. I don't think anyone in Star Fleet history got to first officer with all the problems she had.
They could in the next episode reveal that Tilly has unusual alien parentage which means that if she ever fully cries and tears fall they could become unstable and vaporise the ship and this then explains why she was made First Officer to cheer her up and prevent her from crying. That crazy as it sounds is less crazy and farout than this episode.
Newly promoted Ensign? She had been Ensign since season 1. Hell, Navy regulations alone (nevermind experience and performance) would have seen her promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade by now. ... and then a Tilly of the same age was Captain in the Mirror Universe. Some officers also have no desire to command. Starfleet is not just about being in the Captain's chair. Scotty himself once said "I may be Captain by rank, but I never wanted to be anything but an Engineer"
TRIBBLE TILLY NOW THAT I'VE HAVE SOME SLEEP,,,STAR WARS COUNT TO UP TO TEN THEN COUNT DOWN TO 0 YOUR ARE GENERAL. NO DOUBT KILLER WOMAN HAS PLANS FOR CAPTAIN AND FIRST OFFICER
Tilly is a fun character for an Ensign learning the ropes, but the character is not worthy of the position. There are several other people onboard who would be better out of the gate. This is the writers trying to hard address current social trends.
She is the epicentre of why this show is failing. She is like a growing distortion in the space time continuum - with every new change to her character she is ripping the fabric of the reality of the show apart. Keep her as a silly ensign - no they had to make her an impossible genius and then now a Commander next she will probably take up Klingon death combat and become Chancellor of the Klingon empire.
@@Parasmunt - She was *not* actually made a commander. It is explicitly stated by Saru to her, and then her to Stamets, that this is an *acting* position and does not actually come with a permanent promotion. It is more like a internship as part of her pursuit of command training.
It's like what happened to pictorial art when it became concept art, a phony sense of smugness and unearned vanity that pretended art had been conquered when not a one of them could do what the painters of the 19thC could do. This to classic and TNG Trek in the above analogy, embarrassingly smug despite inferiority. In Trek promotions are earned. First Officer and Captain are contrasts, here both Saru and Tilly are childish creatures that think using emotion and lack toughness of character.
Did you flip over a table? In which case my respects to you on your ninja skills, or did you flip a table over? In which case you may have anger management issues......
Its like Tilly has done absolutely nothing on the show, nor contributed in (or was integral to) successful completion of their missions for over two years now.... ... oh wait.
@@k1productions87 Well i am satisfied at the finale. Tilly was proven incapable of the position she was given. It is not her fault, she had no command experience and was out of her depth. It was Saru's fault, he seemed to make her first officer because he was saddened by her tears. She did the right thing to step aside for Burnham even though Burnham is becoming a ridiculous super rambo type stereotype.
@Sharyse Thomas I agree, and she has been an Ensign for far too long. They don’t have any clue about rank structure. That’s like telling a private, hey you’re the battalion Sergeant Major now. You outrank the 1SG
Yes, with her ability to solve every problem, defeat every foe and be right EVERY time. Hell she has already proven she doesn't need a ship or a crew to be FABULOUS. She should be immediately promoted to head of Starfleet, President of the Federation and planetary leader of Narwhal. (I can't remember what Vulcan is called and couldn't be bothered to look it up) Cmdr to fleet Admiral is about the same as Ensign to Executive Officer of a Starship so why not?
@@madcapmagician3130 Like James T. Kirk, right? He acted as though he was the center of the universe and fits your description of Michael and I bet you love him.
@@Philmaster07 you wouldn’t give an ensign the title of first officer...ever...that’s a slap in the face of all those other officers who’ve spent years making their way up the chain if command
It's a sure bet that nobody on the writing staff has any experience with the military. I don't understand how someone can watch an episode of old Star Trek. And come to the conclusion now star trek needs to be a soap opera now. The audience that the writers are trying to reach DOESN'T WATCH STAR TREK
I love this show. I love Tilly. This is just stupid and bad writing. I know she is just "acting" first officer, and there has been buildup to show that she wants to one day command, but there is ranking for a reason. But hey, I'm thrilled that we actually have a non- human captain so maybe I just need to see how it goes.
Star Trek has never been consistent with ranking. Meanwhile, there has been numerous instances of one's rank not matching their position, some being promoted too fast, some never being promoted at all... Its not like they haven't been pushing the fact that Tilly was in the command program since we first met her or anything. And its not like this is season 1 we're watching.
🙂 Tilly's dream is to be the Captain one day. 🙂 Tilly, is now Saru's first officer (Even though temporary) and she has a great deal to learn about command. ☺️ I may be wrong but if Saru, is more than satisfied with Tilly's achievements, he might let her stay as his permanent first officer. (Tilly might at least get promoted to lieutenant if not Lieutenant Commander or Commander or remain as an Ensign)
This is not Trek, no Federation senior officer would make an ensign First Officer, only if all other officers were incapacitated would it occur, not only that if someone can’t discipline themselves to stay fit or get fit they shouldn’t be in Starfleet, same goes for donut cops, they shoot or endanger others because they can’t chase down
Tilly has exceeded Kim as the longest serving Ensign....
Mariner?
Only if you count a *really* long time skip. Remember that she started out as a cadet. If anything, her career is more on track than Harry's was.
@@brwntrout5468 Mariner is noted to have received demotions in the past (not including when her mother promoted her to teach her a lesson and later demoted her)
She won’t get promoted until she can get her BMI to less than 25. So in other words, never.
@@ArmyJames Rude
900 year old Ensign Kim busts in like "WHAT MUST I DO?!?!"
*Ensign Kim disliked that.
Harry Kim is stuck permanently at the rank of ensign but given more work to do. His alternate universe promotions all got erased. It sucks to go into and organization to come out at the same rank you started as.
All the Lieutenants serving as Bridge Officers:
Are we a joke to you..?
That would entail the writers having to remember their names.
No but you are. Tilly is qualified given everything they've gone through. I'm honestly shocked she wasn't given a promotion or field promotion at the very least. The people manning their stations are needed at those stations on the bridge. They're in new waters. Someone else would have to take over as the bridge officer there. In this case it makes the most sense to bring someone on as First Officer who can be trusted, whos shown to be dedicated to her post and serving it, and who can be relied on. Given what we saw from Tilly, Saru was right. Otherwise Tilly would have had to be learning how to fly the ship or run ops or tactical or comms.
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 In-universe, the decision makes little sense. Tilly hasnae even gone through any command training, let alone has the experience to take on the responsibility of an XO.
But, of course, the writers dinnae give a fuck and do wha'ever they want because who needs continuity or logic.
Lmfao you haven't even seen the show dude. Tilly didn't receive command training? She's been in the command training program since the last episode of Season 1 when she was awarded a medal. But sure. No command training hurr durr lolololol
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 i don't think that's what he was trying to say. i think he was saying that even with command training there is still a logical in universe line of people to chose from, i totally agree that she shouldn't still be an ensign. its almost dumb that she still is. she should be about Lieutenant by now. regardless for a captain to pick a first officer that's not a Lieutenant Commander up with command training is exceedingly rare on any normal starship, whoever not unheard of. due to long term journeys though space a few ships have had command structures that worked this way like voyager, though this is usually due to picking up a family like structure due to the time spent together.
One thing I credit Discovery with is that they started with the characters all being very raw. If you look back to earlier series, most of the main characters were already fully-developed. Kirk was the talented young officer who made captain in his early 30's because he was already that good, Picard was the experienced explorer, etc. They were surrounded by top notch officers who were already fit into their roles. The crew of Discovery has (amusingly given the name) been discovering themselves. It's called character development and it's good.
From the clips I've seen it doesn't seem unreasonable to think they are constructing long character arcs. Very satisfying to see fresh raw characters honed into veterans.
My issue with the series is that they haven’t included the rest of the crew in the main plot as much. It’s just Michael acting completely reckless and somehow getting away with it, while simultaneously criticising anyone else who acts recklessly.
Star Trek has always been progressive with, but with Discovery, they seem to be treating it as a box ticking exercise, rather than giving the non-binary or trans characters more involvement in the main plot.
@@paulminshall8793 - So, in other words, acting like Kirk.
“I’m glad because I thought you were going to ask me to switch my bed to the other side of the room.”
“Yeah, no, that’s happening.”
Poor Harry Kim...
I know, right? I have nothing against this plot development, but I think Harry Kim is spinning so fast in his grave that he could probably be used as an alternate energy source.
Z😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆
The real harry died
@@antonyjharper31 you are a real fan man !
If you've ever been in any kind of military-type organization and you watch this thinking you've never seen anything like this before - you're absolutely correct. A captain (O-6) wouldn't appoint his O-1 as a senior leader and bypass dozens of other more experienced officers. Nor would the entire crew lovingly encourage the O-1 to take the position because they know her and love her.
...and yet I suddenly don't see any hardcore Trekkies rushing to point out that Starfleet isn't military and that Janeway's own XO wasn't even Starfleet to begin with. Clearly their love of Star Trek is only a thing when actively looking for excuses to shit on anything newer than ENT.
Wrong. The people manning their stations are needed at those stations on the bridge. They're in new waters. Someone else would have to take over as the bridge officer there. In this case it makes the most sense to bring someone on as First Officer who can be trusted, whos shown to be dedicated to her post and serving it, and who can be relied on. Given what we saw from Tilly, Saru was right. Otherwise Tilly would have had to be learning how to fly the ship or run ops or tactical or comms. Not to mention that the military-type organization didn't go through fucking TIME.
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 yeah but the pacing is all wrong. This charecter is sooooo not leadership material yet with her casual personality. She doesnt seem serious enough. And Janeway made Chacotay her CO because half the crew was in his faction. It was a power move to ensure the loyalty of the rest of the crew.
@@steverico3090 Janeway and Voyager are irrelevant. Moving on.
The pacing is not wrong. This is a ship that has been flung into the future. The only people they know are each other. They need a first officer who cares for them, looks out for them, is willing to make hard decisions and is willing to sacrifice themselves. Tilly has proved every single one of those criteria.
Your ignorance and stupidity is invalid. Try again.
@@corvo-kaldwin2792 lol sorry I meant to respond to the person above you but voyager is put in the same position by getting stuck far away from home and only having each other. Im sorry but her personality isnt really for the space military or at least command of a ship. She is too easygoing and casual. Officers need both fear and respect. It is an authority figure and the lively way she acts doesnt really fit. Especially when shes like an ensign
There are probably more than a dozen people on board who outrank Tilly
Rank and Position are not always mutually exclusive. There are many instances in Trek past of an Ensign holding a position previously established as requiring higher rank and experience, as well as one's service rank not matching their shipboard rank and position. Also officers being promoted much faster than regulations would demand (Geordi),... while others who deserve to be promoted never get promoted at all (Kim).
And on top of all of that, we also see instances of Ensigns (Kim again) serving duty shifts as Captain.
@@k1productions87 Yes and that's the problem, it would never happen.
@@Mortlupo it will happen if the Captain says so, and the crew does not object. The other issue is, who would be the choice you would make that wouldn't create a big hole in the position they previously held? You know, since we clearly don't want Burnham there.
You don't take Stamets, because his remaining in Engineering is absolutely essential on that ship.
You don't take Culber, because the ship's Doctor is the most important position to remain as such on any ship.
They are the wrong divisions to begin with. Who IS there in Command division? Virtually everyone else is Science or Engineering. Science is often the typical choice, but again... Burnham disqualified herself, and we didn't want her there anyway, did we?
I don't think we'd complain too hard if we saw Ensign Chekov manning the bridge in TOS while Kirk and Spock were away (and one of those episodes where Sulu is not around)
Honestly, rank is the only thing some people see. That's just your pay grade, quite frankly. And in Star Trek, what rank you hold is often fluid based on your position anyway. Hell, in TMP, we saw Captain Decker demoted to Commander because he was serving as XO, and Kirk demoted HIMSELF down to Captain (from two ranks higher).
And then there's Battlestar Galactica, we've seen Lee Adama jump several ranks when he was given the Pegasus, and we eventually saw Lieutenant Hoshi become Admiral when Bill Adama left. And I heard NOBODY bitching about that.... and Galactica is several orders of magnitude MORE militaristic than Star Trek has ever been.
@@k1productions87 lol, does it get to be exhausting being such a staunch Discovery apologist. You got your work cut out for you....
@@j-lgroen1239 I am not a "Discovery apologist" I am a staunch supporter, believer, and follower of the core principal of Star Trek since its very inception - IDIC
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
I support every incarnation of Star Trek, regardless of whether or not I enjoy it. I could dislike everything I am seeing but I will still defend its right to exist with my dying breath. You know.... like the fandom at large refused to do for Enterprise, and so it was cancelled as it was not only getting good, but quite excellent.
I used to be one of those hater types back when Deep Space Nine started. I spouted out all the tired arbitrary talking points and refused to give it a chance. It wasn't until much later that I looked back and saw how amazing it truly was. It not only became my favorite Star Trek series of all time, but the catalyst for my vow that I would NEVER be that person ever again.
Meanwhile, I also look at things with objective eyes and see that the hate aimed at Discovery is the same as that against Enterprise and DS9 and even TNG. The only difference is social media did not exist back then, so we could not see it as much. You had to actually deliberately look for magazine articles to even see it. But it WAS there, it was fierce, and it was just as pointless and wrong as it is now.
If one wants to hate CBS All Access / Paramount+, I would be right there with them. I thought it was a terrible decision from the get-go, but that has nothing at all to do with the quality of the shows. Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks. Supporting the shows does not mean supporting the Network, as I still refuse to pay for it. But I also refuse to pirate it, because I am not THAT kind of person either.
#Kahless once said "Great men do not seek power. They have power thrust upon them."
and weak unqualified women have power given to them for the sake of being a woman
I still get teary watching this scene. Tilly is amazing.
Brevet promotions are not unheard of during wartime. Custer was a Lt. Colonel, not a general. I do agree passing over so many Liutenents for an ensign seems suspect, but making Cadet Kirk, the Captain of Starfleet's Flagship in the reboot was totally bananas. (That was my only big concern with an otherwise entertaining movie.)
It occurs to me that Saru is hedging his bets. He needs somebody to do the XO job. It's a logical step in Tilly's command training. And it's only an *acting* position, not a permanent promotion. Notice that he said *nothing* about changing her rank. If he needs to reassign her, he can at any time. Should a suitable permanent candidate of higher rank become available, he can give them the job without any problems.
@@daniels7907 "It's only an acting position." And I'm sure that when someone gets killed under her command that they will only be "acting dead".
@@GaryGyarados - Dude, this is fiction, not the U.S. military. Chill.
@@daniels7907 This is not fiction, this is ridiculous. They don't need to be in the US military to understand, that they should act rationally. Position of first officer is not a position of personal assistant. No matter if it's military base, police station or a simple cargo freighter.
@@daniels7907 Bros, these are "trekers" we're dealing with, chilling is not an option lol
You got the crew's confidence, you're Number One.
Perhaps "first officer" is a new term for "personal assistant". Otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
I love watching Discovery, but there needs to be one episode where they face a menace that takes away the crews ability to cry for just one episode 😂
Can't do that, Woke Trek is powered by the feels
As if the writers would ever dream of taking a break from virtue signaling to actually provide some good SciFi.
Dont say that dude theyll pull out a musical episode or something 😂
I never really noticed it until you pointed it out. But wow, they really do cry a lot.
@@steeltimberwolf all star trek has been woke for generations, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH.
Totally lost me at this point 😢
Getting a promotion up 4 ranks is a good thing, in a short time.
Remember, she's only "acting". Saru hasn't actually promoted her to commander. This is brevet rank, which is why he didn't even need to clear it with Admiral Vance.
@@daniels7907 Acting or not, it is irrelevant. She is not competent for promotion to such job. That is the problem. Ranks indicates the amount of training, experience, personal maturity and proven competence. It is not just some social status that can be ignored. It is one of several parts of organisational system that among other things, saves people from dying in critical situations.
Hmm... I actually had a 1 rank temporary pay raise acting in a 3 rank temporary promotion capacity while I was in the air force (until all the capable people came back from Yugoslavia and I was back as "ensign" again) but it were a good few months of learning experience (though administrative leadership ain't the same a spaceship No.1)
@@Lukas-Trnka A Next Generation episode had the Enterprise disabled in space and Counsellor Troi had to take command because she was a Lieutenant Commander with no command experience. That kicked her in the ass to get her command training along with Dr. Commander Crusher. Both women later got their bridge officer certifications and promoted in rank.
Ranks indicate nothing. Ensign Kim for example was the most competent and valued member of the crew, but he remained as Ensign... in a position that demands a Lieutenant Commander,... while Navy regulations would have given practically automatic promotion from Ensign to Lieutenant JG after 2 years...
Thats not even mentioning field promotions, or officers manning duty shifts in the captain's chair while well below any command rank. Also including Ensign Kim. And then we see Geordi LaForge, who only spent one year as Lieutenant when Navy regulations require 3 years in that rank before reaching Lieutenant Commander. ... and Worf spent nearly double that time before getting his promotion.
Starfleet has absolutely no consistency when it comes to rank and position. It never has,... so why should it now? Whether you feel "Starfleet is not a Military organization" as Picard said (in which case such regulations are unimportant), or if you feel Starfleet IS in fact military (so explain why those regulations were constantly ignored).
Actually General George Custard was given the wrong rank of General during the Civil War but because of his ability to lead the position was kept and commissioned. General Douglas McArthur promoted a PFC to the rank of Sgt. Because he showed great courage under fire and his ability to give commands to his unit when the Sgt was K.I.A.
Custer was a brevet brigadier general during The Civil War, and when the conflict was over his rank reverted to his regular army rank. When he died at the Little Bighorn his rank was Lt. Colonel.
The articulation of this dialogue... The scope and scale... Just one of the many points that make Star Trek the bright light we love watching!
ha ha ha ha --Discovery SUCKS
"Why would you appoint the least qualified person on the ship to be your Number One?"
"We have a small cast and most are too busy crying or naval gazing."
Naval Gazing? Like, staring at ships? :D
No Starfleet officer would do this...there is a chain of command and countless regulations that cover this.
A Starfleet officer going against Starfleet regulations? Oh yeah, that is unprecedent, never ever happend in the history of the franchise.
*insert sarcastic voice*
Heard of field commission?
@@globe1987 Yes. And what about it? Because it still doesn't contradict Charles Batchelor's statement and it doesn't explain that nonsence that happened in that episode.
There is also a little thing called "Captain's Prerogative" which allows them many unilateral actions when it comes to their own ship, including assigning officers wherever they choose, regardless of rank. There is also the matter of how ship operations would be affected if you remove an officer from their primary duties by adding the duties of First Officer on top of it.
Stamets may have been next in line by rank, but it would be near impossible to remove him from Engineering, as the Spore Drive is literally dependent upon him.
The Doctor is off the list as the duties in sickbay take priority in all such regards (also why you'd never see McCoy, Crusher, or Bashir as XO)
Sciences is the most logical position to have dual responsibilities as XO, but Burnham's removal disqualifies her from this
Not really any other good potential options among the bridge crew, not without compromising the position they already hold.
Honestly, Tilly as the versatile utility player, from consistency of performance as well as field-proven abilities, makes her the ideal candidate. Yes, she is just Ensign, but so what? Even the perpetual Ensign Kim has served shifts in the Captain's chair. Hell, regulations alone would have demanded that both Tilly and Kim receive a Lieutenant Junior Grade promotion after the second year, but their performance (and Starfleet's propensity for skipping time in service regulations accordingly) would have cut that time in half.
Let us not forget, Geordi LaForge only spent one year as Lieutenant before being promoted to Lieutenant Commander. Navy regulations require three years as Lieutenant before being eligible for Lieutenant Commander, so clearly Starfleet does not strictly hold to these. And we haven't even gotten to the subject of field promotions.
And going back to Ensign Kim, as we're talking about Ensigns holding positions they aren't of proper rank for, Next Generation did establish Operations as a position requiring a Lieutenant or higher. So as we can see, there is not only rationale for it, but precedent within previous Star Trek for it as well.
@@jackolantiltin3938 That is a good point, however it really doesn't change the case, because both Worf and Geordi were senior officers, with enough experience and authority among the crew to perform this temporary assignment. Both of them were valid candidates. Unlike Tilly.
Saru need a desk Job.
Best part for me is Number 1 gets they own room much bigger and more luxurious but being roomates with Michael is going to be first thing she ask for 😅 if anything Michael sleeping on her couch in the first officers quarters
1:50 If they’re there.
Who’s on the bridge?
Where’s the 2nd Officer?
This is silly like JJ Kirk getting command right out of the academy.😝
There are at least three duty shifts, if not four. The senior officer is not sitting at duty station 24/7, there are two or three other officers or enlisted personnel to man those positions during the other shifts.
Also "right out of the academy"? Tilly has been Ensign since season 1. Navy regulations alone (nevermind experience and performance) would have seen her promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade by now
@@k1productions87 Three or four full duty shifts and still they were all passed over to promote an ensign with no prior experience to be 2nd in command. Normal training and promotion fosters familiarity with the ship's systems so command personnel would have trained in most departments with regular rotations through as they are being groomed for promotions.
@@waiting4t-araot624 None pf
them were in command division. They were all science or engineering. Division is every bit as important as rank. Very rarely did a non-command officer ever get (or even want) command except in alternate futures (which were set 15-25 years later).
Further, did ANYONE object to her job promotion? Many had cause and opportunity to dispute the decision, but no one did. Why? Because they all trusted her and felt she would be best for the job. And in the end, that is more important. Who is best for the job.
@@k1productions87 You mean it wasn't in the script?
@@waiting4t-araot624 its not real life. Its fiction. The script is all that matters. Meanwhile, in Star Trek’s own past, junior officers had been put in leadership over senior officers all the time. It just so happens, in many of those instances, the script wanted the person of higher rank to be indignant and bitchy. Classic example, “Arsenal of Freedom” (TNG)
And at that time, Geordi was in command division, not engineering
Why...? Even she's asking it.
I liked this scene too. We need her back on the show.
You don't need knowledge or experience you can just wing it make me feel all positive like I can do anything, I'd make a good brain surgeon any volunteers?
This is a show that has simultaneously shown excessive gore and cruelty AND extreme infantilisation and silliness. Some theories exist about what it is, a farce, a comedic attempt, an attempt to cross Comic books with Trek. I think it was an attempt to sabotage Trek's legacy. Unfortunately Picard isn't good enough to make sure it fails.
This is how Kelvin Kirk became captain of the Enterprise.
I guess everyone here forgot that it's just "acting first officer"
Because acting first officer probably means she will stay for a long time
@@annam3243 But still, most of them didn't watch the episode since they don't know that she's not even sure if she'll accept the position because she knows she's an ensign that didn't complete the command training program. It was the rest of the crew that told her to say yes.
It was a nice scene, they just simply can't accept new things.
Join the military, then you’ll know why this is the dumbest shit ever conceived. Here’s an example of rank structure in the military in determining who you would select to be in charge.
Among enlisted Soldiers of the same grade in active military service, to include retired enlisted Soldiers on active duty, precedence or relative grade will be determined as follows-
a. According to date of rank.
b. By length of active Federal Service in the Army when dates of rank are the same. c. By length of total active Federal Service when a and b, above are the same.
d. By date of birth when a, b, and c are the same-older is more senior.
So let’s say I love Ensign tilly and know she would make a better first officer than my other options. I wouldn’t be allowed to give her the position if there are higher ranking people on board. It’s just the way it works
Tilly is acting First Officer, but the responsibilities of her new role is certainly not.
i didn’t know that acting first officer was an internship
Could you imagine..in the real Star Trek Universe, these people going up against grown a$$ villains that have learned how not to act like a hormonal teenager? I mean seriously...theoretically think of what would happen if say, the real, mad with vengeance Khan Noonian Singh encountered these goofs before finding Admiral Kirk and the Enterprise?
Kirk fucked everything that moved and Khan won. Your point is invalid.
There would be a bright flash in a sky of an alien planet that no would care about! That would be The Discovery Exploding with all hands!
And then Khan would go to fight the Enterprise!
Man. You seriosuly need to watch the Original Series if you think that the Enterprise crew didn't act informaly all the time. Fucking Bones had little patience for snobs, Kirk was screwing every woman he found and cracking jokes like there was no tomorrow, and Scotty was horny half of the time, and drunk the other. If anything the Discovery crew is more formal than the Enterprise crew.
Besides. They are not military. The Starfleet crews are 90% of the time exploratory and scientific vessels. Which, in real life, have a way more informal relationship than in the military.
@@nachoolo You are also taking about a series from 1960, which is clearly going to have aspects of that era woven in to it. That is the reason you did not mention any of the new series because your argument would fall flat.
The only crew that acted this informally was Voyager and they had a 50 year reason to do so. However they still acted like officers on a ship and not like kids from the Disney club. Janeway did not even start to act a little informal till after 2 years.
@@nachoolo Yes, exactly. Every criticism of Burham can be applied to Kirk and yet he's the hero. I wonder why (not really)....
There are probably great actors there who have been denied a chance to show their skills, they stand there in the background of that bay smiling at Tilly, no doubt thinking 'it's just a paycheck, it's just a paycheck'.
they dont get payed in star trek they work for free to better them selfs lol
Let's compare this to real life. Take a U.S. aircraft carrier during wartime. There is an ensign with a year in service, working, say, in communications. The aircraft carrier loses its second in command during a battle so the ships Captain calls down to that ensign and says..."You are really great, get up here and take over second in command. Don't worry about all the experienced officers you will be overstepping. You are just the neatest person and, hey, why not".........That is about as asinine as what Star Trek Discovery is trying to stuff down our throats....
Even if the O1 LT is sharp and well-liked, that LT is not experienced enough to function as an 05-O6 equivalent. Second in command isn't an on-the-job training position.
I can't believe I didn't notice before how much crying this series' contains. These guys get teary over anything, it cheapens every genuine moment.
Testosterone is illegal in the Discovery timeline.
Tilly is the longest serving ensign until she is promoted 900 years later.
Meanwhile, Harry Kim is still an ensign and still not promoted till his death
He was a Captain in the finale of Voyager.
The kim family protests 😂
Expression on the dude at 2 06 says it all.
Saw this coming a mile off and only confirms my theory, I think they hinted it in episode 5 and based on her character arc this season, I can see burnham (maybe not this season but next) becoming captain of discovery with tilly as her first officer, Saru will be Admiral, seems like he's more suited to an admiral role then captain, well see
Either way this is gonna piss off people, I love it
Exactly my tought as Saru promoted her. "God, this will piss of the people, Love it." 😂😂😂
I don't think it will bother people because she is only acting XO. The way this show is, Burnham could get the position back as this simply seems to be a plot device holder. Saru never took the time to learn why Burnham was acting strange and promptly passed judgment on her for giving him the Captain's chair saying he couldn't trust her. Saru demands trust, but didn't give it to Burnham or Vance in return and can be quick to dismiss important opposing viewpoints. In this episode, Saru got to see her truth come to the surface and how she perceived she wasn't part of the crew or Federation. He also saw how that information was perceived and the problems it caused trying to get the data in the name of the Federation. Saru got to see how her mother handled it and how her viewpoints change as they worked through it without being judgmental. Both Saruband Burnham have their own version of PTSD and need to work through them.
Even if Saru doesn't give her her slot back, Vance can also appoint Saru his XO should he want to and he wasn't the one who demoted her. I thought it was strange he left her punishment up to Saru and perhaps so he could undo it should be need to and not seem like an indecisive leader. Vance might also pardon her insubordination for the sake of diplomatic relations. He also stated he didn't care about it and the outcome was more than the hoped for and the mission was more important.
They could put someone else in that spot, but it shouldn't take time for him to know that crew and what they are capable of after two seasons. I also don't seem them bringing another permanent cast member on the bridge.
Saru will die
@Daniel Zhang yeah and you could tell Saru wasn't happy with her on the bridge, but Vance ordered her told to do whatever it took. Saru would have probably gone against her once again rather than trust her with a culture she had been a part of if he didn't have standing orders.
I think Burnham also pushed Saru away because he won't trust her when she trusted him. Trust is is a two way street like respect is.
I would have been upset about this if they where still in the present not the future. In the future there is a lack of officers that would be a better choice, as we all know in war time sometimes people get promoted fast.
Chage and Asuka want her to say 'yes'!
They've done a great job through the years of giving us exemplars of wise leadership -- and of virtuous, thinking people dealing with challenges and growing in the process. Especially with Saru, Tilly, and Burnham.
We have to hope that millions of young people ("kids") are soaking it all in. For the future's sake.
Now think about kids growing up in poverty, or with parents who have serious problems. People need easy access to Star Trek. It shouldn't require a subscription of any kind, or even internet access. Just a t.v. and an antenna.
Juat go BORGand say like "Resistance is futile, SAY YES!"
Tilly was appointed because she was the only one who had a cat.
I saw this coming since the 1st episode
What ? How ? Why? When ? ??????? Pls explain
Pls are you serious? I am looking for some logi here there is non
Considering the 1st episode of season 3 didn't even feature any of the Discovery crew at all except Michael meeting Book on the planet, I think you mean the 2nd episode when Saru took Tilly out for a walk.
@@SleakaJ nah I forget that she did many things and saved discovery multiple times ... but it is not my mistake ..discovery feel like Kindergarten.. Kindergarten but with gays , freaks and etc etc ... not with real people with ethics and Leadership qualities ..
I have no idea why I find her really cute but I do
Saru is so cool.
I can accept Vulcans, Klingons and Android officers without reservations , but I consider a ginger leader as entirely unrealistic ;)
Silly tilly will lose this job back to the Burnham b4 seasons end
I too felt this was a plot device holder. I wonder if Vance won't overrule Saru and put her as XO and Science Officer like Spock now that she is known as his Sister. Vance didn't trust Burnham because of who she was and had ties to when it came to the burn data. Now he realizes that she was genuinely interested in solving the burn. There is another silver badge that Burnham was wearing in the trailer that we haven't seen yet as it was quite different. So this seems to support your theory of her getting her position back.
For all we know Kaminar is responsible for the burn and Saru may get dropped in rank and another Captain put in place. I say this because Saru is making a lot of out of character choices and mistakes that he shouldn't be making. Vance already had questioned the ability to trust him and his actions could be viewed as trying to sideline Burnham. He has been the XO of that ship for two seasons and he still doesn't know the crew well enough to pick a replacement?
@@kynthiamiryam9105 I wanna see Saru mouth open on the bridge...Burnham in the Captain seat on the Discovery or another ship saving them all and doing some serious ass kicking!!
@@facedown9754 Burnham being Captain on another ship wouldn't happen for more than a episode or two though because she is the main character and Discovery is the main ship. I would like to see Burnham on a Nevar ship trying to get the different groups to work together. I like seeing her deal with that culture now. Saru almost never leaves the ship and the one time he did he almost killed Burnham and Tyler on Pavo. Burnham seems to be the only Starfleet away team member as well for the ship.
@@kynthiamiryam9105 not disagreeing...it was just an idea top of my head...We shall see how the Tilly thing plays out...
@@facedown9754 your idea would be interesting if the writers pulled it off correctly. As it stands, I think that they could have made Saru and Burnham's conflict more believable so I don't trust them right now with anything like that. My problem with Tilly is more how it was written than anything really to do with the character. I do like how she is more serious, but I am not a fan of the snark she is starting to give Staments as we have enough of that with the rest of the crew. I understand she is struggling, but it would have been nice to explore a different avenue of PTSD as it is different in each individual.
Star trek is better when its more about science and social subjects than it is about reality-television driven "character development"
Star Trek
So, Wesley Crusher went to the Academy with the rank of Captian, right ?
No continuity
Love how Burnham shows up late just so she could steal the spotlight during Tilly’s big moment
Go killy!!!
They are behaving like children.
"What is this shit?" -Bea Arthur
Its like asking a chef to do a pilot's job and fly an airplane. Lol. She is the most least qualified to be number one.
I bet if this was real. Officers on that crew be like... We suck so hard he had to go to an Ensign for temp 1st officer, and they would for sure not put up with it.
Saru was *very* clear that this was an *acting* position and it does *not* come with a promotion in rank. It's basically a glorified internship as part of Tilly's command training. Complete with safety net *because* there are higher ranking officers aboard who can step in if needed.
@@daniels7907 It dosn't really change the fact that he didn't trust any officer to take to post.. Which is really sad tbh. There is sadly no escaping this fact. Don't get me wrong I'm not shitting on Tilly or complain beacuse its a girl. The point is it dosnt matter if its a girl or boy it still makes no sens. But, thats what they are going with.
@@TheSkruer - The crew is still trying to cope with the enormity of what they have done making a one-way jump to the 32nd century. Just look at Detmer and her obvious PTSD. Also, many of the higher-ranked officers are specialists like Stamets and Reno who aren't looking to sit on the bridge. Tilly is well-liked by the crew and can stand up for herself when it matters. After the disastrous dinner, I think that Saru realizes many of the bridge the crew need warm fuzzies more than they need more responsibility. What are they going to do with their lives in this new future? They're still trying to work that out.
Believe me, I would be fully onboard with Stamets or Reno providing LGBTQ representation in the chair. But the way their characters are written I don't see either of them being inclined to do it. The various lieutenants on the bridge didn't seem eager to lobby for the position either. Saru can, and has, positioned this a temporary thing. Everybody on the ship knows that Tilly was in the command training program. So this comes across as training for her, and not coincidentally installing an acting XO that the crew won't be afraid to speak honestly to.
One hell of a first order 🤣🤣🤣
Tilly is great, like the best of Will Robinson and Dr. Smith combined.
Explaining to Tilly “take a day to think about it”-makes his command abilities Questionable !
He should know everyone’s Caliber; as 6 other Officers-“Say Yes” coercion pressures her “really why me ?” Doubts..
Cool....
Makes every who isn't an ensign feel cheated.
yet everyone who isn't ensign is cheering her on...
Everyone who isn’t an ensign is literally telling to take it…
Of course. Because of feelings. But if I were a senior officer who worked my butt off and saved countless lives and only got promoted by one step wouldn't you feel cheated. She jumped the whole lot of them. I don't think anyone in Star Fleet history got to first officer with all the problems she had.
Tilly as first officer..? It was illogical to comprehend.. WTF.. come on! seriously?
Dumbest move ever! I would like to see her come even close to acting captain if shit went down? This is almost laughable
They could in the next episode reveal that Tilly has unusual alien parentage which means that if she ever fully cries and tears fall they could become unstable and vaporise the ship and this then explains why she was made First Officer to cheer her up and prevent her from crying. That crazy as it sounds is less crazy and farout than this episode.
@@Parasmunt Bahahahahaha!!!
Where's Lt Worf when u need him instead of these bunch of vegan chompers
This is the moment this Star Trek series lost me as a fan.
The TACTICAL officer has had the con more often than her. I like tilly but this is stupid
PROGAMBLE MATTER BAR ON THE BRIDGE FOR THE TRIBBLE WHERE CAN THAT BE
Should have been Called Star Trek Cry Babies, or Star Trek Its the 23rd century and we forgot we found the cure for Morbid Obesity.
Omg. So sappy.
So Tilly the newly promoted Ensign is now giving orders to Lieutenants and Commanders? Okay.
Newly promoted Ensign? She had been Ensign since season 1. Hell, Navy regulations alone (nevermind experience and performance) would have seen her promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade by now. ... and then a Tilly of the same age was Captain in the Mirror Universe.
Some officers also have no desire to command. Starfleet is not just about being in the Captain's chair. Scotty himself once said "I may be Captain by rank, but I never wanted to be anything but an Engineer"
TRIBBLE TILLY NOW THAT I'VE HAVE SOME SLEEP,,,STAR WARS COUNT TO UP TO TEN THEN COUNT DOWN TO 0 YOUR ARE GENERAL. NO DOUBT KILLER WOMAN HAS PLANS FOR CAPTAIN AND FIRST OFFICER
Tilly is a fun character for an Ensign learning the ropes, but the character is not worthy of the position. There are several other people onboard who would be better out of the gate. This is the writers trying to hard address current social trends.
She is the epicentre of why this show is failing. She is like a growing distortion in the space time continuum - with every new change to her character she is ripping the fabric of the reality of the show apart. Keep her as a silly ensign - no they had to make her an impossible genius and then now a Commander next she will probably take up Klingon death combat and become Chancellor of the Klingon empire.
@@Parasmunt - She was *not* actually made a commander. It is explicitly stated by Saru to her, and then her to Stamets, that this is an *acting* position and does not actually come with a permanent promotion. It is more like a internship as part of her pursuit of command training.
@@daniels7907 Yes, she should have asked about the pay.
@@Tom_UA-cam_stole_my_handle - They work to better themselves you know...
The idea was to set her up for failure, hence how micheal becomes captain after tilly looses the ship. Highlighted she wasn't cut from the right cloth
An ensign in command.
I’d love for Tilly to become a Borg Queen. So far the Borg haven’t been mentioned yet and I wonder if they still exist in 3189?
After all the shit voyager did, I wouldn’t be surprised if they got decimated
@@justanotherasian4395 I can’t imagine the Borg are gone, but we might find out more in “Picard.”
who else would have made reno number one?
She would have hated it, but it would have been so much fun!
I would follow Tilly.
this made me flip over a table. participation awards for everyone.
It's like what happened to pictorial art when it became concept art, a phony sense of smugness and unearned vanity that pretended art had been conquered when not a one of them could do what the painters of the 19thC could do. This to classic and TNG Trek in the above analogy, embarrassingly smug despite inferiority. In Trek promotions are earned. First Officer and Captain are contrasts, here both Saru and Tilly are childish creatures that think using emotion and lack toughness of character.
Wow... an over dramatic baby you are.
Did you flip over a table? In which case my respects to you on your ninja skills, or did you flip a table over? In which case you may have anger management issues......
Its like Tilly has done absolutely nothing on the show, nor contributed in (or was integral to) successful completion of their missions for over two years now....
... oh wait.
@@k1productions87 Well i am satisfied at the finale. Tilly was proven incapable of the position she was given. It is not her fault, she had no command experience and was out of her depth. It was Saru's fault, he seemed to make her first officer because he was saddened by her tears. She did the right thing to step aside for Burnham even though Burnham is becoming a ridiculous super rambo type stereotype.
It's a TV show, they can do it anyway they want
So is she promoted from Ensign to directly to Commander?
Yeap cause...logic
No, it is even worse; she is still an Ensign but now "outranks" 99% of the crew.
@@GaryGyarados yeah that makes absolutely no sense. Imagine if they did that to Wesley
I mean, if you want to get technical, Kirk went from Cadet to Captain in JJTrek, so...
@Sharyse Thomas I agree, and she has been an Ensign for far too long. They don’t have any clue about rank structure. That’s like telling a private, hey you’re the battalion Sergeant Major now. You outrank the 1SG
I loved this scene. I love how much heart they all have.
Not gonna lie, if Saru snuffed it and she suddenly became CO I'd resign and demand reassignment...
Bit early isnt it.
Michael would make a great captain one day.
Yes, with her ability to solve every problem, defeat every foe and be right EVERY time. Hell she has already proven she doesn't need a ship or a crew to be FABULOUS. She should be immediately promoted to head of Starfleet, President of the Federation and planetary leader of Narwhal. (I can't remember what Vulcan is called and couldn't be bothered to look it up) Cmdr to fleet Admiral is about the same as Ensign to Executive Officer of a Starship so why not?
@@madcapmagician3130 Like James T. Kirk, right? He acted as though he was the center of the universe and fits your description of Michael and I bet you love him.
Yeah...an Ensign got a hell of a promotion. That’s about dumb
ACTING first officer
remember first officer is a job title not a rank this is her taking on a new job not being given a new rank
@@Philmaster07 you wouldn’t give an ensign the title of first officer...ever...that’s a slap in the face of all those other officers who’ve spent years making their way up the chain if command
Let’s see how it plays out. I see character development in the Till Story Ark now
I mean...Better than staying Ensign for 7 years like Harry Kim! :p
Is this a starship or a cruise ship?
It's a sure bet that nobody on the writing staff has any experience with the military. I don't understand how someone can watch an episode of old Star Trek. And come to the conclusion now star trek needs to be a soap opera now. The audience that the writers are trying to reach DOESN'T WATCH STAR TREK
Why is everyone always fucking crying?
Well, she is the fastest runner on the ship, holds the acedemy record..
Definitely took to heart Burnham advice from season 1.
I don’t see her doing much running anywhere
he didn't answer the question though
What I think this show needs is more crying.
So it is possible to turn mad in corona quarantine.
😭😭😭😭😭😭
I love this show. I love Tilly. This is just stupid and bad writing. I know she is just "acting" first officer, and there has been buildup to show that she wants to one day command, but there is ranking for a reason.
But hey, I'm thrilled that we actually have a non- human captain so maybe I just need to see how it goes.
Star Trek has never been consistent with ranking. Meanwhile, there has been numerous instances of one's rank not matching their position, some being promoted too fast, some never being promoted at all...
Its not like they haven't been pushing the fact that Tilly was in the command program since we first met her or anything. And its not like this is season 1 we're watching.
Who's running the damn ship,Grudge??
Beta shift, Gamma shift, or Delta shift? There isn't a singular person at a duty station 24/7, they DO go off duty
Cry cry cry cry cry cry
Yh I’m not sure this makes any sense at all.
Just say yes… to the dress.
She lost the ship to emarald chain
(Ack. Why do I read the UA-cam comments? I know better.)
🙂 Tilly's dream is to be the Captain one day. 🙂 Tilly, is now Saru's first officer (Even though temporary) and she has a great deal to learn about command. ☺️ I may be wrong but if Saru, is more than satisfied with Tilly's achievements, he might let her stay as his permanent first officer. (Tilly might at least get promoted to lieutenant if not Lieutenant Commander or Commander or remain as an Ensign)
I would say that if there was one star trek show ith bad acting , this was the one . Specially those two actress .
This is not Trek, no Federation senior officer would make an ensign First Officer, only if all other officers were incapacitated would it occur, not only that if someone can’t discipline themselves to stay fit or get fit they shouldn’t be in Starfleet, same goes for donut cops, they shoot or endanger others because they can’t chase down
You’re right - it’s not the Roddenberry, Berman, and Braga sh-t. Thankfully.
Stop whining
Kinda like Wesley in TNG, huh? Lmfao!!!
This show is full of it
Always had soft spot 4 Tilly. Now ... what about her earlier premonition of being addressed as “Captn”?