@@skycorrigan6511 I KNOW!!! He was such a mature filmmaker at such a young age! He's clearly prodigiously inclined towards the art. I wonder if he's a bit of a savant...
This is such a brilliant scene...the writing, the score, the acting and the direction are just so incredibly perfect!! Not only that but as a viewer, watching this incredible bit unfold, I find it to be absolutely compelling and absorbing. Both leads are perfect. John C. Reilly makes for such a lovable loser in all of PTA's films...and Phillip Baker Hall was always magnificent. This film is one that I can watch over and over, There are few films that I can appreciate watching again and again and this is one of them. It deserves FAR more recognition as one of the great films out there!
John C. Reilly has one of the most expressive visages of any actor I'm aware of. He's such a likeable actor and guy too. And what a range! He's one of Hollywood's most underrated talents. If you haven't seen him with Steve Coogan in "Stan & Ollie" you're missing out on a beautiful film and one hell of a performance (from both amazing leads to be honest). It's a tear jerker to be certain.
Word of warning: No matter how drunk you get, none of this works with the slot machine inside the bathroom stall at the Crazy Horse strip club. Secondly, arguing with the security about it might also lead to stitches. I am guessing, I wouldn't know. Maybe I should delete this....
The rate card stuff is computerized, for the most part, and it doesn't rate you when you BUY the tokens, or chips, but only when you spend them, in a machine, and you can't pull this off on that kind of tracking, or at least it's a lot more complicated. It's a way that real serious players don't spend much on rooms, food, flights, etc because the casino makes a butt load more on what they drop at the tables than on what it costs them for comps to the player. Computers make it tougher for us.
Exactly, I feel like this scam NEVER actually worked, because you're not actually spending the money and they know it. Even when this movie was made, they still had at least cameras that would track you circulating the same money over and over again. Not to mention the suspicious guy you keep running off to talk to in eyeshot of everyone. This scene just never worked for me because it's so inconceivable.
@@FallofAll33 9 months later i read your comment and decided to get off my couch and go see the world thank you Trixter and Link David if you are still alive
Yes, Jos, I can. What John is doing is showing the Casino that he's spending a substantial amount of cash, because they're only showing what he BUYS, not what he cashes in. So, he can spend a few dollars, and make it look like he's spent a great deal more than he has. This would give them the idea he was able to drop some good coin in their machines, and so they're going to comp him perks to keep him coming back...more
Thank you so much I had to go back like 8 times and got frustrated cuz the math didn't add up it kinda threw me off woke up today to try again and the same in like UA-cam to the rescue know it makes sense 😂👍
We call this "false dropping". Much easier for the supervisors to track someone on a table game than onna slot machine. Although, slot machines are modern today and don't accept tokens and the rating card has to be inserted.
I love the simplicity of the scam, but the only thing I’d wonder is: wouldn’t the floor man or security notice that Sydney is shepherding him through his whole stay? Especially since Sydney is presumably a preferred customer staying at the hotel?
Paul Thomas Anderson is a big Scorcese fan. Numerous times in his movies will you see things that are a tip of the cap to Scorcese's work. Pretty cool to see.
The AI God's have taken over, while AI does not understand human interaction yet this would be possible if your old school and professional at keepin your cool. As the old saying goes, it takes money to make money, sometimes it's a risk, but with cautious risks come great rewards. Patience and vigilance
The point is you were able to risk your 150$ while also getting 150$+ value in comps. If you win any money its just gravy on top. Still works in some casinos
But you play 20 bucks and you don't win let's say. So you do another 20... It's conceivable to have 100 pulls of a slot machine and not win at all. And in that case you can just get a room for the same money.
I gave up our casino(Halifax,NS,Canada) around 05 or 06. Saw this film many years ago and wasn't clear about what was going on in this sequence. I THINK I get it now. Is this something you could actually succeed at?
Because the casino knows, based on the percentages, and averages, that the longer any player stays in the casino, actively playing, the more chance they have of taking his money. The odds are all on their side. Now what he's doing is simply for show. He's "bought" about $2,000 in tokens, but there's no idea that he's actually just rolled some of it from the cash out to the cash in. Now, in the age of computers it isn't quite as easy, because....more
The assumption is that every time he buys chips his rate card gets marked, but he only gambles a little bit of that. He cashes in the chips and starts the whole process over again. In my opinion, it's not very realistic. Number 1, I don't think a Casino is going to give you a free room for losing just $2,500. Number 2, they would have noticed him going back and forth like that.
this is outdated. In the older days they would estimate how much you bet and how long you played. Now you put your card in the machine and the computer system tracks every cent played, and paid. The old star dust system at blackjack for example, if you bet an average of 10 bucks for 4 hours you get room and food for each day. What this guy says here assumes he can keep buying in for the 100 without losing it! That would work if one could keep playing and not losint
Anyone have thoughts on the significance of the slow-motion closeup of the money at 7:15? On first watch I though he was short-changing Sydney since it's 2 bills but if you slow it down in HD you can see it's a 50 and a 100. So is it just to point out that John gave the money back without Sydney asking? A slow-motion closeup definitely screams THIS IS IMPORTANT but it seems pretty unnecessary. I guess the overt difference between the sizes of their cash wads is a nice visual indicator of their level of wealth. Oh also it's John paying back Sydney, and the movie has a lot of themes about payback.
Do you remember any other instances of $150 in the film? Recurring money amounts is important, for example John needs $6,000 for his mom's funeral and later it is shown Sidney has $6,000 to his name.
Yes and no. It's more effective in table games. Especially moving around craps tables. In casinos it's known as a false drop. Years ago I thought working table games in a casino would be fun ( it wasn't ) and was promoted to a games supervisor with only six months dealing ( the job I really wanted to do). I had to track these morons running around wasting everyones time with this bull. They buy in pocket chips run to the cage buy in etc. When the pits get busy it's not too hard to lose track of them. Now that every thing is computerized it's easy to put a false drop comment on a guys player history and wherever he goes afterwards he'll be told to go fish. In slots it doesn't work because it's strictly the amount you play per hour. not what you buy in
The false drop guys were not really “wasting everyone’s time”. Tracking them was one of things you were hired to do. Without them, your job wouldn’t exist. casino had no
@@dm-um9lo false drop just wastes everyones time. You don’t get points based on buy in, only actually play. As soon as you leave you’re rating stops. Also, floors are way more likely to “clean the rack” on people who false drop. If you leave with say $1,200 green and they’re missing $1,600 in green in the rack.. guess who is getting credit for the entire $1,600?
Too bad you probably couldn’t do this scam at casinos today, not with all the cameras they have. Sooner or later the eye in the sky will zoom in to see you aren’t really playing 100s of dollars in slots…and they will see you going back and forth between the cash out and token booths….and then they will put 2 + 2 together and blacklist you from their casino.
it doesn't work like that. It's just a card that keeps track of how much you are gambling - they comp you based on this. It's not like a debit card. example; his rate card showed he spent 2k even though he only spent 150, so they comped him a room - what's 79$ bucks to them when they think he's spending 2k?
some ppl still try this shit, but its all tied to ur debit/credit cards and the 'power play' cards. basically the hotel thinks ur spending a shitload (and prolly losing) so they give u comps, tangible goods the casino/bar/hotel can offer. rooms, drinks, buffets, shows, etc. they think ur a big time riverbroat grambler when rly ur just a hunk check plz
Does this actually still work now, or have computers made this impossible to do? I imagine even if it did work you probably couldn't do this at the same casino too often or they would probably catch you. Maybe if you showed up once every two weeks or something it could work. Could I get some feedback from anyone who's tried this or a professional gambler who knows about this stuff?
Underrated film. PTA is one of the best ever.
It's crazy how young he was when he did this and Boogie Nights
I get upset when critics pick this movie apart. "Worthy first movie." The things they criticize are exactly what I like about it.
It's an amazing film - no doubt. And I totally agree that PTA is one of the greatest directors of all time. There's no doubt.
@@skycorrigan6511 I KNOW!!! He was such a mature filmmaker at such a young age! He's clearly prodigiously inclined towards the art. I wonder if he's a bit of a savant...
This is such a brilliant scene...the writing, the score, the acting and the direction are just so incredibly perfect!! Not only that but as a viewer, watching this incredible bit unfold, I find it to be absolutely compelling and absorbing. Both leads are perfect. John C. Reilly makes for such a lovable loser in all of PTA's films...and Phillip Baker Hall was always magnificent.
This film is one that I can watch over and over,
There are few films that I can appreciate watching again and again and this is one of them. It deserves FAR more recognition as one of the great films out there!
I love the feeling this evokes of casinos back in the day.
So great. This video starts and ends perfectly. Got precisely the clip I wanted to see.
We are all so happy for you.
Ha! I was looking for the exact same scene too!
Every time he says "And here's my rate card." I get nervous like he's gonna blow the whole scam. 🤣🤣
The goofy "Thanks a lot!!" makes me facepalm every time lol
John C. Reilly has one of the most expressive visages of any actor I'm aware of. He's such a likeable actor and guy too. And what a range! He's one of Hollywood's most underrated talents. If you haven't seen him with Steve Coogan in "Stan & Ollie" you're missing out on a beautiful film and one hell of a performance (from both amazing leads to be honest). It's a tear jerker to be certain.
Came here after hearing about Phillip Baker Hall's passing. RIP to the veteran actor.
See Seinfeld Phillip Baker Hall plays a library detective named Bookman funny episode.
Dominated every scene, added something to every movie.
Word of warning: No matter how drunk you get, none of this works with the slot machine inside the bathroom stall at the Crazy Horse strip club. Secondly, arguing with the security about it might also lead to stitches. I am guessing, I wouldn't know. Maybe I should delete this....
hahaha
I heard the slot machines at crazy horse III pays better
Thanks for not deleting. That's one of the best comments I've heard on the YT. I laughed just trying to picture the thing.
99
Coming back again. Christ, the original comment is funny. Your mind is pleasantly warped.
The rate card stuff is computerized, for the most part, and it doesn't rate you when you BUY the tokens, or chips, but only when you spend them, in a machine, and you can't pull this off on that kind of tracking, or at least it's a lot more complicated.
It's a way that real serious players don't spend much on rooms, food, flights, etc because the casino makes a butt load more on what they drop at the tables than on what it costs them for comps to the player.
Computers make it tougher for us.
Exactly, I feel like this scam NEVER actually worked, because you're not actually spending the money and they know it. Even when this movie was made, they still had at least cameras that would track you circulating the same money over and over again. Not to mention the suspicious guy you keep running off to talk to in eyeshot of everyone. This scene just never worked for me because it's so inconceivable.
When this story was written, a number of the smaller casinos were still using non-computerized slot machines.
I followed this program exactly & all I ended up with was a couple Chuck E. Cheese Tokens?!?
6 years later you brought wonderful laughter to my life!
@@FallofAll33 9 months later i read your comment and decided to get off my couch and go see the world thank you Trixter and Link David if you are still alive
This movie is swag😎
JCR plays the rube so well in this scene.
Bookman on the weekends
I gotta watch this. Great actor.
1996. No work no more. Now you have to put the cards in the machines. Have an actual record of your bets. And John C Reilly was skinny.
Yes, Jos, I can. What John is doing is showing the Casino that he's spending a substantial amount of cash, because they're only showing what he BUYS, not what he cashes in. So, he can spend a few dollars, and make it look like he's spent a great deal more than he has. This would give them the idea he was able to drop some good coin in their machines, and so they're going to comp him perks to keep him coming back...more
Thank you so much I had to go back like 8 times and got frustrated cuz the math didn't add up it kinda threw me off woke up today to try again and the same in like UA-cam to the rescue know it makes sense 😂👍
We call this "false dropping". Much easier for the supervisors to track someone on a table game than onna slot machine. Although, slot machines are modern today and don't accept tokens and the rating card has to be inserted.
one of my favorite movies, if you like this you might also like Mississippi grind. anyone know any other movies sorta like this though?
"Owning Mahowny"
It is pretty stupid because back when they used tokens, the casinos were aware if the same person kept going back and forth
The world was a better place.
But I bet they didn't know about the guy in the suit you keep running off to talk to everytime you do it! 😊
You and your good time buddies.
You put on a pair of shoes when you walk into the New York library!
I love the simplicity of the scam, but the only thing I’d wonder is: wouldn’t the floor man or security notice that Sydney is shepherding him through his whole stay? Especially since Sydney is presumably a preferred customer staying at the hotel?
Maybe they don't care. It's not their casino.
5:00 those neck collars are funny 😂
MR. BOOKMAN!!!
danny i found the best machine this machine wins every time. its called one of paper equals four of coin
Great script and cast
Great clip... shows a lot..
great flick
It was fun while it lasted.
I'm looking at this scene, and it looks like Scorsese's Casino has some competition i think
Very observant. A slow mover, with a nice ending. Worth watching.
Paul Thomas Anderson is a big Scorcese fan. Numerous times in his movies will you see things that are a tip of the cap to Scorcese's work. Pretty cool to see.
this is better because it doesn't have the narrator
Pesci’s narration getting interrupted by a baseball bat to the back of the legs was sheer Brilliance though.
If only this is still true
The same thing as this applies to table games
Forget OCEAN'S 11, just do the rate-card scam.
Hard card buy in and cash out now days. Can't do this anymore. Everything is track buys wins loses gains.
Kirstin Langvold Technology these days. 😋
2ndRatePetronius All on computer now. No chance.
what does this even mean?
The AI God's have taken over, while AI does not understand human interaction yet this would be possible if your old school and professional at keepin your cool. As the old saying goes, it takes money to make money, sometimes it's a risk, but with cautious risks come great rewards. Patience and vigilance
This scheme assumes you don't lose all your money.
Thats why you only put in 20 bucks, the trick is ro use rhe rare card to rack up points and free play and whatnot
The point is you were able to risk your 150$ while also getting 150$+ value in comps. If you win any money its just gravy on top. Still works in some casinos
But you play 20 bucks and you don't win let's say.
So you do another 20...
It's conceivable to have 100 pulls of a slot machine and not win at all.
And in that case you can just get a room for the same money.
I figure any casino worker would have been trained to spot this scam pretty quickly, even back then.
Where the hell did Paul Thomas Anderson learn this is my question! 😄
Probably the same place he learned of the "pudding scam" that the Adam Sandler character was partaking in in 2002's Punch Drunk Love.
I gave up our casino(Halifax,NS,Canada) around 05 or 06. Saw this film many years ago and wasn't clear about what was going on in this sequence. I THINK I get it now. Is this something you could actually succeed at?
Not anymore. Play is electronically tracked by player cards nowadays. Your comps are more or less fixed by how much you bet.
Because the casino knows, based on the percentages, and averages, that the longer any player stays in the casino, actively playing, the more chance they have of taking his money. The odds are all on their side.
Now what he's doing is simply for show. He's "bought" about $2,000 in tokens, but there's no idea that he's actually just rolled some of it from the cash out to the cash in.
Now, in the age of computers it isn't quite as easy, because....more
They know every penny and have you on surveillance.
I don’t understand the logic of this. Can someone one tell me how he got 2 grand by just doing the same steps over and over
The assumption is that every time he buys chips his rate card gets marked, but he only gambles a little bit of that. He cashes in the chips and starts the whole process over again. In my opinion, it's not very realistic. Number 1, I don't think a Casino is going to give you a free room for losing just $2,500. Number 2, they would have noticed him going back and forth like that.
why isint this movie a Criterion?
Stumpycat Vm
I know right. The only PTA film on criterion at the moment is Punch Drunk Love
this is outdated. In the older days they would estimate how much you bet and how long you played. Now you put your card in the machine and the computer system tracks every cent played, and paid. The old star dust system at blackjack for example, if you bet an average of 10 bucks for 4 hours you get room and food for each day. What this guy says here assumes he can keep buying in for the 100 without losing it! That would work if one could keep playing and not losint
Movie came out '97
The movie Casino came out in ‘95 and pointed out that Vegas is Disneyland and a joke back then. It’s an even bigger joke now.
Anyone have thoughts on the significance of the slow-motion closeup of the money at 7:15?
On first watch I though he was short-changing Sydney since it's 2 bills but if you slow it down in HD you can see it's a 50 and a 100.
So is it just to point out that John gave the money back without Sydney asking? A slow-motion closeup definitely screams THIS IS IMPORTANT but it seems pretty unnecessary.
I guess the overt difference between the sizes of their cash wads is a nice visual indicator of their level of wealth.
Oh also it's John paying back Sydney, and the movie has a lot of themes about payback.
Do you remember any other instances of $150 in the film? Recurring money amounts is important, for example John needs $6,000 for his mom's funeral and later it is shown Sidney has $6,000 to his name.
it is significant because John has nothing. when you're desperate and you have nothing and you give somebody $150 it's a big deal.
r/wallstreetbets
Is this realistic nowadays? I would think they have tactics in place to stop this type of thing.
It wasn't even realistic then
What is the title of this movie??
boku no pico
@@jay1jayf HAHAHAHAHA
“Hard Eight” Just like me.
anyone know the song at the beginning? I know its green onions but what version?
It's not Green Onions but sounds similar. It's just something composed by Jon Brion and Michael Penn for the film.
Bookman
Does this hustle still work in today's casinos?
Yes and no. It's more effective in table games. Especially moving around craps tables. In casinos it's known as a false drop. Years ago I thought working table games in a casino would be fun ( it wasn't ) and was promoted to a games supervisor with only six months dealing ( the job I really wanted to do).
I had to track these morons running around wasting everyones time with this bull. They buy in pocket chips run to the cage buy in etc. When the pits get busy it's not too hard to lose track of them. Now that every thing is computerized it's easy to put a false drop comment on a guys player history and wherever he goes afterwards he'll be told to go fish. In slots it doesn't work because it's strictly the amount you play per hour. not what you buy in
The false drop guys were not really “wasting everyone’s time”. Tracking them was one of things you were hired to do. Without them, your job wouldn’t exist. casino had no
@@dm-um9lo false drop just wastes everyones time. You don’t get points based on buy in, only actually play. As soon as you leave you’re rating stops. Also, floors are way more likely to “clean the rack” on people who false drop. If you leave with say $1,200 green and they’re missing $1,600 in green in the rack.. guess who is getting credit for the entire $1,600?
Oh yeah yeah
Too bad you probably couldn’t do this scam at casinos today, not with all the cameras they have. Sooner or later the eye in the sky will zoom in to see you aren’t really playing 100s of dollars in slots…and they will see you going back and forth between the cash out and token booths….and then they will put 2 + 2 together and blacklist you from their casino.
I think they would probably laugh you out of the casino also. this whole thing is silly
The background music is so loud that I can’t hear the dialogue!!!
Would he be able to cash the money in his rate card or does he have to spend it in the casino facilities; bar, hotel... etc?
at casino usually
it doesn't work like that. It's just a card that keeps track of how much you are gambling - they comp you based on this. It's not like a debit card. example; his rate card showed he spent 2k even though he only spent 150, so they comped him a room - what's 79$ bucks to them when they think he's spending 2k?
some ppl still try this shit, but its all tied to ur debit/credit cards and the 'power play' cards. basically the hotel thinks ur spending a shitload (and prolly losing) so they give u comps, tangible goods the casino/bar/hotel can offer. rooms, drinks, buffets, shows, etc. they think ur a big time riverbroat grambler when rly ur just a hunk check plz
Phoebe JCP Skuncc lmao, love the Steve brule references
Does this actually still work now, or have computers made this impossible to do? I imagine even if it did work you probably couldn't do this at the same casino too often or they would probably catch you. Maybe if you showed up once every two weeks or something it could work. Could I get some feedback from anyone who's tried this or a professional gambler who knows about this stuff?