If you prefer audio, here are the links to the Sentientism podcast: 🍎apple.co/391khQO 👂pod.link/1540408008. Ratings, reviews & sharing with friends all appreciated. You're helping normalise "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings" sentientism.info/posts. Everyone is welcome in our online communities - come join us: facebook.com/groups/sentientism.
21:57 I think what you and your guest are maybe trying to explain is the way I distinguish good from ( morally or ethically ) right and bad from ( morally or ethically ) wrong, yes? Some action can be bad (meaning have bad or harmful outcomes) yet not entail any morally/ethically wrong action. Vice-versa...... some action can be good yet not entail any morally/ ethically right action. Think about self defense against a deadly threat. The defensive action you take may justifiably end up harming someone who's capable of and focused on murdering you or your dog. Likewise, sexually stimulating a severely mentally disabled teen in a vacuum setting may have a good outcome (enjoyment by the teen) but that in no way means you've necessarily engaged in a morally or ethically right action. *Good =/= right* *Bad =/= wrong*
*Sentiocracy* ......... actually that fits rather well into my description of how I define my small "p" progressive political leaning. This type of progressivism is not at all to be confused with Leftism which is merely radicalism in my view. Small "p" progressives seek to evaluate for possible embrace any ideas for progress for all members of our society ( which would naturally include laws affecting all sentient individuals. ....... Sentiocracy ) irrespective of whether those ideas originate in the furthest Right Wing or Left Wing think tank or mosque or science lab. Left =/= progress Right =/= anti-progress Hyper-Tribalism is a toxic ego- cancer destroying societies and in that, destroying countless innocent individuals.
Not much to disagree with here - except maybe that "campfire spirituality" doesn't age well. It may appear childish looking back at it from age 70 - or maybe you can become the 70-year-old spiritual guru at the campfire.😁 Interesting part at the end about corralling the bad actors who have the "might makes right" ethic. This brings me back to my idea that "compassion doesn't scale, but hatred, tribalism, corruption, exploitation, money-grubbing, etc. scale like wildfire". Compassion needs to be the pure unassailable base layer. It needs to be institutionalized and acculturated by additional layers - legal, political, etc. (- and what to do about all the militaries?) PS: The proof-of-weapons network (the militaries) problem can actually be solved, or at least reduced, by base-layer Bitcoin - and of course base-layer compassion...
I think compassion can scale too! We've already managed it to some extent - even at a global level. As you suggest - we need values and likely governance mechanisms at every level that can handle bad-faith actors and defectors. A key challenge is how to avoid those very mechanisms (including militaries) being co-opted for authoritarian or oppressive ends? And the better we get at co-operating peacefully, the more complacent those mechanisms get - increasing the temptation for new bad-faith actors - and increasing their chances of success too...
@@Sentientism In a way I see unscale-ability as a feature, not a bug. Value lies is dearness, not in ubiquity. Stalin was right in that ""A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic". I see the value of love, compassion (and even a new money such as Bitcoin) in their dearness, as a base-layer - not in their easy scale-ability. But they can, and must, be made to scale - through 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.-layer means. I think you're on the right track for sure... Deep consensus-building...
If you prefer audio, here are the links to the Sentientism podcast: 🍎apple.co/391khQO 👂pod.link/1540408008. Ratings, reviews & sharing with friends all appreciated. You're helping normalise "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings" sentientism.info/posts. Everyone is welcome in our online communities - come join us: facebook.com/groups/sentientism.
SHARED
Thanks@@LouisGedo !
Looking forward to this discussion
The late Christopher Hitchens once said that if he had one wish it would be to distinguish the supernatural from the numinous.
Thank you so much for this conversation. Inspiring reflections on complex issues.
Thank you Linda!
21:57
I think what you and your guest are maybe trying to explain is the way I distinguish good from ( morally or ethically ) right and bad from ( morally or ethically ) wrong, yes?
Some action can be bad (meaning have bad or harmful outcomes) yet not entail any morally/ethically wrong action. Vice-versa...... some action can be good yet not entail any morally/ ethically right action.
Think about self defense against a deadly threat. The defensive action you take may justifiably end up harming someone who's capable of and focused on murdering you or your dog.
Likewise, sexually stimulating a severely mentally disabled teen in a vacuum setting may have a good outcome (enjoyment by the teen) but that in no way means you've necessarily engaged in a morally or ethically right action.
*Good =/= right*
*Bad =/= wrong*
THIRD! 😂
‘One cannot make an ought from an is’
This is really outstanding. Jonathan's work at OPIS is some of the most important (and insightful) there is. Congrats - will be sharing!
Thank you Matt. It was such an inspiration to talk to Jonathan. I'm particularly looking forward to Opis's compassionate governance work.
*Sentiocracy* ......... actually that fits rather well into my description of how I define my small "p" progressive political leaning. This type of progressivism is not at all to be confused with Leftism which is merely radicalism in my view.
Small "p" progressives seek to evaluate for possible embrace any ideas for progress for all members of our society ( which would naturally include laws affecting all sentient individuals. ....... Sentiocracy ) irrespective of whether those ideas originate in the furthest Right Wing or Left Wing think tank or mosque or science lab.
Left =/= progress
Right =/= anti-progress
Hyper-Tribalism is a toxic ego- cancer destroying societies and in that, destroying countless innocent individuals.
Not much to disagree with here - except maybe that "campfire spirituality" doesn't age well. It may appear childish looking back at it from age 70 - or maybe you can become the 70-year-old spiritual guru at the campfire.😁
Interesting part at the end about corralling the bad actors who have the "might makes right" ethic. This brings me back to my idea that "compassion doesn't scale, but hatred, tribalism, corruption, exploitation, money-grubbing, etc. scale like wildfire". Compassion needs to be the pure unassailable base layer. It needs to be institutionalized and acculturated by additional layers - legal, political, etc. (- and what to do about all the militaries?)
PS: The proof-of-weapons network (the militaries) problem can actually be solved, or at least reduced, by base-layer Bitcoin - and of course base-layer compassion...
I think compassion can scale too! We've already managed it to some extent - even at a global level. As you suggest - we need values and likely governance mechanisms at every level that can handle bad-faith actors and defectors. A key challenge is how to avoid those very mechanisms (including militaries) being co-opted for authoritarian or oppressive ends? And the better we get at co-operating peacefully, the more complacent those mechanisms get - increasing the temptation for new bad-faith actors - and increasing their chances of success too...
@@Sentientism In a way I see unscale-ability as a feature, not a bug. Value lies is dearness, not in ubiquity. Stalin was right in that ""A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic". I see the value of love, compassion (and even a new money such as Bitcoin) in their dearness, as a base-layer - not in their easy scale-ability. But they can, and must, be made to scale - through 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.-layer means.
I think you're on the right track for sure... Deep consensus-building...