thanks for the video, but let's say a patient has 7 teeth that needs filling. 1- Are you obligated to treat them all for the UDA of one or can you you just do only one? 2- you do pay for the used dental materials impressions, lab , fillings out of pocket ? i'm so confused!
Hi Rami - thanks for watching the video! To answer your questions: 1) You should do all necessary treatment in that one course of treatment (there are rare exceptions such as phased treatment but these are exceedingly rare). If you have a regular patient, it would not be correct to split their treatment over several courses. Also, there is a minimum amount of time required between courses of treatment so this would delay treatment further. 2) Generally, as an associate dentist you will pay roughly 50% of the lab fee though this is something that is agreed with your practice owners. Sometimes you will also pay for other materials/equipment if there is something you specifically want and the practice aren’t prepared to pay for it all.
That's definitely not the minimum that dentists earn - dentists can earn far less than that (I just used those figures as an example). Additionally, if you work in a salaried job, you tend to earn significantly less as well. Ultimately, £50k is an average and so there are lots earning below this and lots earning above this.
Also, you mention at the DCT and speciality training part that it is then taxed but also say at the associate part that it’s a distinction that associate are taxed compared to DCT and speciality trainees, would you just be able to clarify if DCT and speciality trainees then pay tax or not. Thank you and great vid 😃
Hi Bobby, yes I did 2 years of DCT! Sorry, I can clarify that for you. So everyone pays tax (the Governments wouldn't be happy otherwise!), the distinction is HOW that tax is paid. In DCT and Specialty Training, you are salaried and your tax is deducted before the money ends up in your bank account - so if you get £2000 in your bank account, that's yours to spend. With being an associate, your income is not taxed until the end of the tax year as you are self-employed. So if you had £2000 in to your account at the end of the month, you have to remember that some of that will have to be preserved/saved for tax purposes later on in the year :) I hope that makes sense!
I'm a dentist from India. I am thinking of pursuing masters in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery from Glasgow University. I just want to know if this is in any way beneficial or not? Basically will this two years course will be a step closer to being a specialist?
Hi, in the UK you must be dual-qualified as both a dentist and a doctor (i.e. hold both degrees) and be registered with the GMC and GDC in order to pursue speciality training in OMFS. The masters you mention will not really get you 'a step closer' but it may be good experience for you :)
@@bloomagrawal160 You can do the post-graduate courses of the other degree, so both medicine and dentistry have potentially 3 year courses available in the UK though they are competitive. There are also 4 year courses and, worst case scenario, yes you could go with a 5 year course.
Could you please elaborate more on what is the point of doing a 3 year MClinDent in OMFS if we anyways have to do MBBS and register with GMC along with years of core trainings.
Pre-tax it could be anywhere from £60k to £100k - it really is variable depending on whether you are NHS or private and what you get paid under the NHS.
Thanks!a lot of sources online seem to suggest it may well be £40-50k as well after deducting the lab fees etc,I have always come across such varied answers but thanks for your input!
Thanks for commenting Carlo! To work in the UK, you need to ensure your degree is accepted here and, if not, carry out the necessary conversion. You also will need to register with the GDC. If you want to work on the NHS, then you will have to do some form of Foundation Training either through the normal process or by finding a practice that will do the equivalent. This wouldn't be necessary if you want to work privately :)
Thank you very much for the video! Can you please explain, when the patient pays the Band fee who receives that money? For example, the dentist is doing a filling and the patient pays the Band 2 fee, who receives that money? Also, I can't wrap my mind around Band 4. Shouldn't an emergency extraction be worth more points (UDA) than a planned one or is this just me?
Thanks for watching the video. So if a paid pays, for example, £65 for a Band 2 treatment - this money goes the the NHS. The dental practice is given money for their contract and, as the dentist, you will get your UDA value x 3 for the work. So you do not get what the patient has paid. As for the Band 4, it's a strange part of the NHS banding system. Logically, what you say is what makes sense, but you also don't need a proper dental exam for a Band 4 treatment so this may be an argument. There is also a limit of number of teeth that can be extracted and fillings that can be done in this band.
@@examinedental Thank you for replying! If the patient pays the fee to the NHS and they need a Band 3 treatment, but the lab work is worth 300 gbp and split between the dentist and the dental practice, doesn't that mean both the practice and the dentist just lost money on treatment on the patient? Since a band 3 treatment is 12 UDA and for easy numbers lets say a UDA is paid 22 gbp to the dental practice, and the dentist gets half of that. So 22x12=264, but the lab work was 300.
@@ivaylorusinov655 you are very correct. This is one of the big flaws in the NHS system and, unfortunately, a reason that dentists don't like doing too much labwork in one course of treatment. It would be very unusual to have a standard lab bill of £300 to be honest, but the point you've made is very correct. The truth is, as much as the general public believe that dentists earn £££, the reality is that on the NHS, dentists actually lose money on a lot of patients. Another example is the fact that a patient who needs 1 one filling or 10 fillings, they pay the same amount so dentist gets the same amount despite the fact that one patient will take a lot more clinical time than the other.
@@examinedental Thank you for sharing all this information! All of this, really sounds messed up. Is it legal for a dentist to refuse more than a certain amount of treatment in one course? For example, can the dentist legally split the treatment in separate courses for the patients who needs 10 fillings? So it's not 10 fillings for 3 UDA, but instead 5 courses with 2 fillings in each. From researching the market, I saw prices in private start from 50 gbp, and band 2 is 65.2, so 10x50=500 for private, and even if the private dentist gives 10% discount that would still be 450 where as with NHS dentist it would be 5x65.2=326. So the patient still has finical incentive to go to NHS dentist, and for the NHS dentist and dental practice things are bit more fair. Another thing, I'm seeing from job postings is employers expect the dentist to agree to 5000-6000 UDA for full time contract, so even if the dentist wants to approach things carefully and don't want to commit to high UDA contract then they (the dentist) won't get hired.
@@ivaylorusinov655 Not a problem! You're right - the system doesn't always make sense and it's true that many NHS dentists are disillusioned with the system. I think using the term 'legal' or 'illegal' for what you describe is wrong as it's not a legal process to begin with. However, what you describe would definitely be playing the system and looked at very negatively by our regulatory bodies. So no, it's not something that should be done. As for the job postings, 5000-6000 UDAs would be the standard to be honest. However, you are more than welcome to discuss contract terms with the person and look at negotiating a lower target.
@@examinedental yes it's what in meant and they are in the staff car park at my local dentist so clearly they don't have to worry about affording them.
Could you make a video on international students ( BDS graduates) from any of the African countries getting into a 6-year OMFs residency in the UK, please?
I can look in to this - however the short answer is that there isn’t any such thing as a 6 year OMFS residency in the UK. To practice OMFS fully in the UK, you must be dual qualified in both dentistry and medicine. I hope that helps a bit.
Thanks for watching :) As I've said, with private dentistry, it's difficult to give an exact figure. You can charge what you want for procedures and so your earnings technically don't have a limit as such!
@@pikusarker1359 Like I said, it entirely depends on how much you charge and how much you work. Yes it may be feasible to earn that much, but not every private dentist earns anywhere near that :)
@@pikusarker1359 on average private dentists make about 50-60k because on average their not fully booked or have longer appointments. Bupa you might make £50 and hour for 2 30 min exams. Nhs you might earn 40 or more outside of London. You pay higher insurance rates and lab bills for private. Most high end practices are barely booked half of the day. Private endodontists can be fully booked for months. Nhs orthodontists are highly booked for NHS work too. Everything else takes connections or time to build relationships and trust.
Why do NHS dentists not offer simple work like covering dentin with composite to stop progession but offer private treatment "and say its better" this is what has happened recently Even though composite restoration on damaged enamel is a part of NHS treatments and should be of same standard. This is why i am have requested all my records under GDPR rules which are of no charge and patients are entitled to because i feel treatment has been ignored, and also put off I have issues with my jaw TMD, teeth sensitivity and occlusion damage and all i have been offered is a night guard and its not getting to the base of the issue which is the occlusion of the teeth causing abfraction exposing the dentin The dentist also tries to say its brushing which is textbook then tried to say it was fizzy drinks which i rarely drink (i use a sonicare correctly but it is abfraction the dentin exposure is too consistent with the gum recession pattern Why do i have to learn about my own conditions and consider a new dentist as my one isnt really bothered?
Hi, I can't really comment on your specific clinical case or clinical concerns, this isn't what the video is about. I can generically speak about NHS dentistry and what is provided. NHS dentistry provides most treatments but they must be clinically justified - a common misconception is that all NHS checkups should include a 'scale and polish'. This isn't the case - if it is not clinically required, then it's not covered under the NHS. In this situation, if a patient requests it, it is something that would be privately provided. Complex cases can also be done under the NHS but they are often referred to centres for treatment but then they have very strict criteria for acceptance. There are many misconceptions about NHS dentists which ideally need to be clarified in the public eye. An example is a recent pay rise the government stated that dentists would get - this isn't the case. The standard NHS dentist does not get a pay rise in this situation. I can't speak for your own dentist, but generally NHS dentists are under a lot of pressure and are only trying to do their best. The NHS ties their hands somewhat unfortunately.
@@examinedental problem with dentistry in UK is that is not as attractive career for those doing maths/economics/finance/computer science degrees at top universities as far higher salaries in those sectors
True, NHS dentistry in UK pays much less than US, but US is mainly private. NHS dentistry technically speaking does not provide a lot of advanced cutting edge equipment or materials, where as private dentistry in the UK does.
This video shares a bit more about what you can earn as an NHS dentist - hope it's helpful! :)
Hi, Thanks for the video.
Could you please also talk about Dental hygienists and Therapist income?
Hi, thanks for the comment! I can definitely look in to doing this for you :)
@@examinedental Thanks, Also May I ask please can Dental Therapist who work as Dental Hygienist if registered with GDC? or not.
thanks for the video, but let's say a patient has 7 teeth that needs filling. 1- Are you obligated to treat them all for the UDA of one or can you you just do only one? 2- you do pay for the used dental materials impressions, lab , fillings out of pocket ? i'm so confused!
Hi Rami - thanks for watching the video! To answer your questions:
1) You should do all necessary treatment in that one course of treatment (there are rare exceptions such as phased treatment but these are exceedingly rare). If you have a regular patient, it would not be correct to split their treatment over several courses. Also, there is a minimum amount of time required between courses of treatment so this would delay treatment further.
2) Generally, as an associate dentist you will pay roughly 50% of the lab fee though this is something that is agreed with your practice owners. Sometimes you will also pay for other materials/equipment if there is something you specifically want and the practice aren’t prepared to pay for it all.
Very informative video 👏
Can you please make a video on the ore exam. It will be very helpful.
Would you like to know about the questions or the structure?
@@examinedental about the questions
Thank you so much!
if dentists are earning min £60-70K per year, why is the average salary £50K online for a general dentist?
That's definitely not the minimum that dentists earn - dentists can earn far less than that (I just used those figures as an example). Additionally, if you work in a salaried job, you tend to earn significantly less as well. Ultimately, £50k is an average and so there are lots earning below this and lots earning above this.
Hi Prateek, what would you say it's a reasonable UDA rate? Thanks in advance
Just wondering, did u do DCT
Also, you mention at the DCT and speciality training part that it is then taxed but also say at the associate part that it’s a distinction that associate are taxed compared to DCT and speciality trainees, would you just be able to clarify if DCT and speciality trainees then pay tax or not. Thank you and great vid 😃
Hi Bobby, yes I did 2 years of DCT! Sorry, I can clarify that for you. So everyone pays tax (the Governments wouldn't be happy otherwise!), the distinction is HOW that tax is paid. In DCT and Specialty Training, you are salaried and your tax is deducted before the money ends up in your bank account - so if you get £2000 in your bank account, that's yours to spend. With being an associate, your income is not taxed until the end of the tax year as you are self-employed. So if you had £2000 in to your account at the end of the month, you have to remember that some of that will have to be preserved/saved for tax purposes later on in the year :) I hope that makes sense!
I'm a dentist from India. I am thinking of pursuing masters in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery from Glasgow University. I just want to know if this is in any way beneficial or not? Basically will this two years course will be a step closer to being a specialist?
Hi, in the UK you must be dual-qualified as both a dentist and a doctor (i.e. hold both degrees) and be registered with the GMC and GDC in order to pursue speciality training in OMFS. The masters you mention will not really get you 'a step closer' but it may be good experience for you :)
@@examinedental So, one has to do both 5 yrs UG to become an Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon in UK? Like 10 yrs of only UG?
@@bloomagrawal160 You can do the post-graduate courses of the other degree, so both medicine and dentistry have potentially 3 year courses available in the UK though they are competitive. There are also 4 year courses and, worst case scenario, yes you could go with a 5 year course.
@@examinedental Ah, okay. Thank you so much for explaining and answering my questions.☺️
Could you please elaborate more on what is the point of doing a 3 year MClinDent in OMFS if we anyways have to do MBBS and register with GMC along with years of core trainings.
Hi there!how much do Associate dentists earn pretax and after deducting the operational fees?could you give me an average final number? Thanks!
Pre-tax it could be anywhere from £60k to £100k - it really is variable depending on whether you are NHS or private and what you get paid under the NHS.
Thanks!a lot of sources online seem to suggest it may well be £40-50k as well after deducting the lab fees etc,I have always come across such varied answers but thanks for your input!
hi, i m 26 y/o dentist working in italy since 2019, can you tell me what to do to work in UK? thanks you!
Thanks for commenting Carlo! To work in the UK, you need to ensure your degree is accepted here and, if not, carry out the necessary conversion. You also will need to register with the GDC. If you want to work on the NHS, then you will have to do some form of Foundation Training either through the normal process or by finding a practice that will do the equivalent. This wouldn't be necessary if you want to work privately :)
Sir can an overseas dentist who cleared their ORE/LDS and finished their plve training enroll for dct??
Hi Ayshil, I believe you can yes - as long as you are on the GDC list then you should be able to :)
Thank you so much sir
Thank you very much for the video!
Can you please explain, when the patient pays the Band fee who receives that money? For example, the dentist is doing a filling and the patient pays the Band 2 fee, who receives that money?
Also, I can't wrap my mind around Band 4. Shouldn't an emergency extraction be worth more points (UDA) than a planned one or is this just me?
Thanks for watching the video. So if a paid pays, for example, £65 for a Band 2 treatment - this money goes the the NHS. The dental practice is given money for their contract and, as the dentist, you will get your UDA value x 3 for the work. So you do not get what the patient has paid.
As for the Band 4, it's a strange part of the NHS banding system. Logically, what you say is what makes sense, but you also don't need a proper dental exam for a Band 4 treatment so this may be an argument. There is also a limit of number of teeth that can be extracted and fillings that can be done in this band.
@@examinedental Thank you for replying!
If the patient pays the fee to the NHS and they need a Band 3 treatment, but the lab work is worth 300 gbp and split between the dentist and the dental practice, doesn't that mean both the practice and the dentist just lost money on treatment on the patient? Since a band 3 treatment is 12 UDA and for easy numbers lets say a UDA is paid 22 gbp to the dental practice, and the dentist gets half of that. So 22x12=264, but the lab work was 300.
@@ivaylorusinov655 you are very correct. This is one of the big flaws in the NHS system and, unfortunately, a reason that dentists don't like doing too much labwork in one course of treatment. It would be very unusual to have a standard lab bill of £300 to be honest, but the point you've made is very correct. The truth is, as much as the general public believe that dentists earn £££, the reality is that on the NHS, dentists actually lose money on a lot of patients. Another example is the fact that a patient who needs 1 one filling or 10 fillings, they pay the same amount so dentist gets the same amount despite the fact that one patient will take a lot more clinical time than the other.
@@examinedental Thank you for sharing all this information!
All of this, really sounds messed up. Is it legal for a dentist to refuse more than a certain amount of treatment in one course? For example, can the dentist legally split the treatment in separate courses for the patients who needs 10 fillings? So it's not 10 fillings for 3 UDA, but instead 5 courses with 2 fillings in each. From researching the market, I saw prices in private start from 50 gbp, and band 2 is 65.2, so 10x50=500 for private, and even if the private dentist gives 10% discount that would still be 450 where as with NHS dentist it would be 5x65.2=326. So the patient still has finical incentive to go to NHS dentist, and for the NHS dentist and dental practice things are bit more fair.
Another thing, I'm seeing from job postings is employers expect the dentist to agree to 5000-6000 UDA for full time contract, so even if the dentist wants to approach things carefully and don't want to commit to high UDA contract then they (the dentist) won't get hired.
@@ivaylorusinov655 Not a problem! You're right - the system doesn't always make sense and it's true that many NHS dentists are disillusioned with the system. I think using the term 'legal' or 'illegal' for what you describe is wrong as it's not a legal process to begin with. However, what you describe would definitely be playing the system and looked at very negatively by our regulatory bodies. So no, it's not something that should be done.
As for the job postings, 5000-6000 UDAs would be the standard to be honest. However, you are more than welcome to discuss contract terms with the person and look at negotiating a lower target.
Just look in the dentists car park to see what they earn. I saw porches
I wish I had a Porsche! (Which is what I assume you meant)
@@examinedental yes it's what in meant and they are in the staff car park at my local dentist so clearly they don't have to worry about affording them.
Not bad money though compared to your average Joe Soap who also has to work nights and other unsociable hours and work hard.
Why doesn’t average Joe Soap become a dentist then
Average Joe Soap generally doesn’t do surgery tho
Average joe soap doesn't study for 5 years at uni
Could you make a video on international students ( BDS graduates) from any of the African countries getting into a 6-year OMFs residency in the UK, please?
I can look in to this - however the short answer is that there isn’t any such thing as a 6 year OMFS residency in the UK. To practice OMFS fully in the UK, you must be dual qualified in both dentistry and medicine. I hope that helps a bit.
@@examinedental Kindly look into it, please. 🥺
Thanks in anticipation. ✨
Sir how much dentists earn in private practice in uk?
Thanks for watching :) As I've said, with private dentistry, it's difficult to give an exact figure. You can charge what you want for procedures and so your earnings technically don't have a limit as such!
@@examinedental but I saw on internet that in private practice dentists earn over 150k pounds. Is it true?
@@pikusarker1359 Like I said, it entirely depends on how much you charge and how much you work. Yes it may be feasible to earn that much, but not every private dentist earns anywhere near that :)
@@pikusarker1359 on average private dentists make about 50-60k because on average their not fully booked or have longer appointments. Bupa you might make £50 and hour for 2 30 min exams. Nhs you might earn 40 or more outside of London. You pay higher insurance rates and lab bills for private. Most high end practices are barely booked half of the day. Private endodontists can be fully booked for months. Nhs orthodontists are highly booked for NHS work too. Everything else takes connections or time to build relationships and trust.
Why do NHS dentists not offer simple work like covering dentin with composite to stop progession but offer private treatment "and say its better" this is what has happened recently
Even though composite restoration on damaged enamel is a part of NHS treatments and should be of same standard. This is why i am have requested all my records under GDPR rules which are of no charge and patients are entitled to because i feel treatment has been ignored, and also put off
I have issues with my jaw TMD, teeth sensitivity and occlusion damage and all i have been offered is a night guard and its not getting to the base of the issue which is the occlusion of the teeth causing abfraction exposing the dentin
The dentist also tries to say its brushing which is textbook then tried to say it was fizzy drinks which i rarely drink (i use a sonicare correctly but it is abfraction the dentin exposure is too consistent with the gum recession pattern
Why do i have to learn about my own conditions and consider a new dentist as my one isnt really bothered?
Hi, I can't really comment on your specific clinical case or clinical concerns, this isn't what the video is about. I can generically speak about NHS dentistry and what is provided. NHS dentistry provides most treatments but they must be clinically justified - a common misconception is that all NHS checkups should include a 'scale and polish'. This isn't the case - if it is not clinically required, then it's not covered under the NHS. In this situation, if a patient requests it, it is something that would be privately provided. Complex cases can also be done under the NHS but they are often referred to centres for treatment but then they have very strict criteria for acceptance. There are many misconceptions about NHS dentists which ideally need to be clarified in the public eye. An example is a recent pay rise the government stated that dentists would get - this isn't the case. The standard NHS dentist does not get a pay rise in this situation. I can't speak for your own dentist, but generally NHS dentists are under a lot of pressure and are only trying to do their best. The NHS ties their hands somewhat unfortunately.
@@examinedental Well thats a great help 😂
Very low compared to US
This is likely because majority of American dentistry is private, whereas here I am looking at NHS dentistry :)
@@examinedental problem with dentistry in UK is that is not as attractive career for those doing maths/economics/finance/computer science degrees at top universities as far higher salaries in those sectors
True, NHS dentistry in UK pays much less than US, but US is mainly private. NHS dentistry technically speaking does not provide a lot of advanced cutting edge equipment or materials, where as private dentistry in the UK does.
Not enough