Fourier Audio Just Changed Live Sound | USE ANY PLUGIN LIVE
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- In this video, we're talking about the brand new Fourier Audio transform.engine! Is it going to live up to the hype? Will it change the way we run sound in church forever?
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00:00 Intro
00:15 What Is transform.engine?
01:40 What plugins can you use?
02:15 Stability
03:21 DigiCo Integration
04:43 Latency
05:38 Integration
06:24 Touring
06:42 Beta Testing
07:13 Front and Back Panel Rundown
09:33 Tech Specs
11:15 FAQ's
13:55 Final Thoughts
Music Sync ID: MB01IZGIL4PFHQF
waves answer just announced: SuperRack LiveBox preorder at 6.999
This is gonna be crazy!!
Super excited!!
Same!
As a DigiCo user, this is great. If anything, the competition is needed. Seems like they took all of the complaints from Waves over the years and improved on all of them. Can't wait to get this added on my rig.
Honestly, I'd trust Gareth Owens involvement in this even over Digico's name brand. I'm sure that was one of the main reasons Digico got involved. He's absolutely brilliant and a legend in the theater world.
Agreed! An absolute legend!
For personal use this would be great for testing plugins on a input source or when recording adding this.
I'd have to buy MADI to DANTE converter for my ORION 32+, but that will see me be able to review plugins on a live input source.
Personal used it's be great for recording any vocalist or my own vocals on the input with any new creative plugin.
It'll mean when I record a band ever I could do the same.
It's something I can add later on which I like.
Linux can run VST3 on ELK Audio OS on near Zero latency, using the Xenomai Cobalt Kernel, the Latency is around 0.01 and 0.03 it depens on the VST. some company could use this tecnology for some console.
Yeah! I think it would be really awesome to see someone try that!
Trying to figure decide between going with this setup vs. going with a waves superrack set up, idk which would be an easier install/setup as well for gigs
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LiveProfessor makes this possible today.
However, I do appreciate the difference between software running on a PC/Mac vs a turnkey/hardware-based solution (even though it's essentially still just Windows inside the box).
We'll have to see but if the windows distro is well made the improvement can be massive in terms of reliability compared to LiveProfessor
Yes but no. I believe the key difference here is the reliability. If a plugin crashes, live professor crashes entirely. Happened to me few times during a show and i wasn't even tweaking a thing. So that i stopped using it as an insert on channels. Now it's basically a glorified reverb/fx unit. Still a cool one, some VSTs like SeventhHeaven or cinematic rooms are light years ahead qualitywise compared to reverbs on the average boards.
Pretty great that there’s more competition in the market. Personally, I’m excited about Karoo Sepia. I hope that technology catches on because we’d get the coveted analog feel from it.
Agreed! I think it works out great for everybody!
Brother. Saying “live professor just isn’t a very fast way to do that.” Is simply just not helpful. I think more specifics need to be made there. I am a frequent Live Professor user on many platforms. Not knocking this product at all, I think it’s amazing that they put it in a box.
Yeah I could have been more specific there. So, I’ve also used Live Professor a lot and it’s definitely impressive what they’ve managed to do… however, it’s not a hardware accelerated platform and it’s not optimized for the lowest possible system latency the way this unit or even Waves Soundgrid is.
My other issue with it is reliability. I think it’s fine for running some nice reverbs or other aux effects, but I’m not sure I’d ever run critical channels through it. If a plugin crashes in LP, it can take the whole system down, and that’s a deal breaker as far as I’m concerned.
Come back to the latency issue, with LP you’re relying on an audio interface that’s not specifically designed for live sound processing.
Even if you’re using Dante (like with Dante Virtual Soundcard for example) the lowest latency with DVS is 4ms each way (so, 4ms in, and 4ms back out) PLUS whatever latency the plugins add. That can easily add up to over 12ms which is going to become audible and cause issues, especially for in ears.
It’s a complex situation for sure, but that’s my reasoning why a solution like this would be a superior option.
@@WorshipSoundGuy I hear you there. I think it is all in the set up, I use LP live on my main vocal chain, my aux FX, Drum group, Keys, etc. With no issue from my set up. I am using the RME madiface at 96k my round trip latency from LP through that unit is about 1.8ms maybe even faster. so I am at max 4ms (this is obviously from FOH, Monitors changes things a little). this units FASTEST proposed latency is 1ms for the system. so it's a .8 difference on my end. I have now done 3 tours with it on different desks with no issue. I think it might be about approach. the other difference is this is a unit that isn't even out yet.
I assume this new product is like a newer version of what it was a Muse Receptor back in the days, right?
Sort of? I think this is geared more toward plugin use rather than virtual instruments like the Muse was, but fundamentally a similar concept.
A note about the Dante latency. The “1ms minimum latency” is one-way. So the round-trip latency just from the Dante network will be 2ms minimum. Then you add the system latency of the platform, and any inherent latency in the plugin(s) you are using.
Good catch! Should have noted that in the video. Still very minimal, but it’ll eventually add up depending on how much processing there is.
Dante is 0.25ms on DMI card
@@cephaswesley7684yep, it depends on what devices are in your chain and where you’re patching things. Dante latency is weird because it’s device specific and then it’s complicated even further by synchronization.
The reality is, it’s all pretty darn low, and it takes around 12-15ms for the human brain to detect latency, so when we’re talking about things that are in the sub-1ms range, there’s actually a lot of time to play around with. Definitely enough to work with!
@@WorshipSoundGuy wish they did a Madi or AVB Milan version where latency is fixed .. very helpful in a live sound environment..Optcore would be the dream. Let’s see how they handle the whole latency thing on this new platform. Great video!
@@cephaswesley7684 yeah that would be VERY cool. I wish the IO on the box was done with a card so that you could swap it out for different configurations.
When they say they can run any VST3 plugin I wonder if that includes any waves plugin as well?
Correct! Literally anything you want!
Seems very interesting. Any idea on pricing? Im guessing it will probably be pretty expensive
Not that I know of but we’ll see soon!
I think this is a great product possibly. As a DiGiCo user and Waves user my consoles don't have an Audinate Dante card. This will work amazing with my Yamaha consoles but I otherwise have to use my MADI bridge to make it work. So I still have to have another device and therefore introduce more latency. So we should mention that if your desk isn't DANTE capable already, you might have to do some other stuff that slows tings down a bit. My Focusrite MADI bridge works really fast but it's about 4 grand. You should mention that if your desk doesn't have a DANTE cared that thingsd can get expensive.
Yeah it'll be really interesting to see what happens as far as compatibility! Obviously Dante is going to be easiest, but I'll be excited to see what else they do with it.
Can I ask you :
1. Can Fourier be programmed offline?
2. Can I use 1 Fourier for 3 mixers at the same time?
3. When buying Fourier, is any software included?
1. Yes! They've got their "transform:client" app available on their site to download now.
2.You can! You can route any mixer through dante and have it pass through the engine. I don't believe there's any limit on devices.
3. Just the software to run the system, (aka the plugin host) not any actual plugins themselves
Just to be sure, is this an all in one box, or still needs a strong computer to run the plugins?
It's basically all in one! It does require a computer, but that's just for the program that lets you interact with the plugins. All the processing happens in the transform.engine box.
I hear MSRP is gonna be $11k. That’s a bit steep. My hope is this forces Waves hand to open their platform to 3rd party plug-ins since they’re no longer the only game in town.
Ohhh yeah that is steep! I guess we’ll see… I wonder what street price would be? Maybe like 8k or so. Which is still pretty significant. Maybe they’ll surprise everyone and it’ll be more approachable.
I really hope that’s not true.
I would rather buy two Titan servers and just stick with Waves.
Really exciting product, but definitely not something for my church. We use a Behringer Wing (it’s what we could afford...) and while we’re on the edge of maxing out its capabilities in terms of buses and FX engines, using something like this or a Waves server is kinda hard to justify. Also I’m wondering how you’d go about setting this up in a way that would allow you to adjust parameters well. I’m guessing a touch screen? But where do you place that? And don’t get me started on using USB MIDI controllers. I use MIDI controllers for keys and for controlling lighting. I’ve had enough problems with USB MIDI that I would NEVER rely on that for FoH audio. :D Nope. Not gonna happen. I’d rather be stuck with whatever is in the console than be at the mercy of USB MIDI controllers’ whims.
I’m really surprised waves hasn’t made a move to open up super rack to other plugins. It would literally be a layup to dominate the space since they’re already everywhere. They could even charge a premium for that feature to make it worth their while, a premium most would be willing to pay within means.
But I love this because hopefully it will force waves to innovate some more. They really haven’t a whole lot and they haven’t had to because they were so far out in front of
Yep! It looks like now they're scrambling to open up SuperRack Native to third party plugins. It's a good step... but it kind of leaves out all of us who've already invested in their server systems.
There are plugins to remove those gross mouth noises, this video is kind of hard to listen to. When I'm having one of those days I run isotope x click or the waves x crackle, then you don't really notice them so much but anyways great video
Yeah, this was a really quick video that I threw together on the day it was announced so I didn't put a ton of work into cleanup. Thanks though!
Your welcome, its a great video but sometime that grosses people out and they leave so i figured id bring it to your attention, @@WorshipSoundGuy
@@dannylightning-audio-reviews for sure! I really appreciate it.
I think one of the reasons Waves hasn't enabled using third party plugins is because of the latency issue. As you eluded to it's hard to make promises about latency when you don't know what plugin someone is going to run. Some people who don't have experience with plugins might not understand that some plugins are non-realtime (say something that you set and then hit a "render" button to get your results). There are also Waves plugins which they don' t recommend you use in the rack systems because of latency just as there are Universal Audio plugins that you can't use with the Apollo interfaces which use DSP because they can't make latency promises on those like they can the hand picked ones. The Apollo interfaces BTW theoretically could be used as outboard effect units for live although it would probably be through the analog ins and outs not the digital routing.
Nonetheless this device is great. Especially the Dante interface. I think if when GPU Audio gets all of their tech finished it would be nice to see this box or some of the consoles out there able to integrate a GPU to accelerate some plugins when whatever CPU they are using isn't enough. Plugins which use FFT like the various spectral processors out there would benefit from something like that. The company which makes the Soothe plugin had to create a special one for live sound but maybe with that sort of acceleration that won't be necessary.
For sure! It'll be very interesting to see real world performance.
Real World game changer. super low I/O latency. processing latency also.
VST3 plugin have really good performance and friendly CPU power. only issue is price Lol
Hahah yep, I'm super interested to see the price point... I've heard some rumors, but nothing official.
Noo .. some vst are vst 2 and the folder doesn't have vst 3 of the same product... so how do we all use this if it is not vst3
Most plugin makers are updating to VST3 so hopefully any older plugins that you're looking for would be updated soon!
Any idea of price?
I've heard rumors ranging from $4,000 to $11,000 haha. I think we're just going to have to wait and see!
Now Superrack Performer can run any VST plugins
Yeah Waves is trying to catch up haha! I REALLY hope there's going to be something for SuperRack users as well. For those of us who are invested in that system, it would be awesome to see a version of SuperRack that can handle native third party plugins and Waves plugins running on a server simultaneously.
@@WorshipSoundGuy true story!
How is this any different than a pc and a audio interface? I don't get the point.
It's different because it's for use in the live sound world. It uses network audio protocols like Dante to get audio in and out of the processor so it's really fast/low latency and works with live sound mixing consoles. Previously the only real option for this was Waves SuperRack, but that only allowed you to use Waves plugins so you were limited to what they offer. With this, you can run anything and still get the benefits of super low latency, redundancy, extra stability and have all your audio over a network. It also integrates directly with live sound consoles so you can access/control your plugins directly from the console.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. How is this different from I think it was called Musetech that many years ago made a rack mounted PC to host the 1'st generation of VST plugins for live use. It was expensive and didn't age very well. Only difference is computers is so much powerfull today that you actually are able to design a system that can run many tracks with a reasonable low latency. Like another post here pointed out, It's still just Windows in a box disguised as a aHardware solution. Kinda the same Korg did with the Kronos, a PC disguised as a Hardware Synth. Problem Is still, you have to design a new box every 5 years when the hardware it runs on goes out of sale because new tech comes around that is 5 times faster. No matter what you call it, you still have to update your hardware once in a while, even a certain solution seems smart today. people gonna laugh at it in 10 years even it seems ground breaking. There surely is Hardware once in a while like the Fairlight that changes how people work with music and sound production, but it rarely ages very well. If they really can make a system that can get rid of problems with plugins that crashes and make the restart just close to undetectable, it would be really groundbreaking, but I highly doubt that is gonna happen any time soon, just as the system latency have been marketed as "ultra low latency" it's still one of the biggest problems once the ammount of processing needed reaches a certain threshold.
That's a great point! That unit was definitely a little ahead of it's time and (if I recall) wasn't super reliable. I'm curious to see how real world performance stacks up once it's released.
Just got back from AES...got to see this in person and talked to one of the DigiCo reps about it. It's very exciting! Too bad I just spent all my money on a Quantum 338 and don't have enough budget leftover to add this to the package :(
Nice! I'm sure that 338 is gonna be epic!
At $10,000 it’s a bit steep.
We'll see! I've heard price range speculations from $4,000 to $11,000 and Fourier has been very tight lipped... I'm curious to see when the official announcement comes through!
if you know how to mix....YOU KNOW HOW TO MIX... PERIOD.... all these mambo jumbo will complicate things even more for someone who doesn't know the craft...
Ehhh... but if you know how to mix, you also know how to use tools like this appropriately and in context. Can you get a great mix without Waves or this or any other plugin solution? Absolutely! But can it also be REALLY fun to have some of these other tools to be able to achieve things you can't do with onboard EQ/compression/effects. There's a whole world of stuff out there and there's no reason not to have fun with it!
"Game Changer" holds little weight when persons making the statement is reading directly from marketing material and who have little to no first-hand knowledge.
I've seen conspiracy theorists push more viable opinions.
Lol ok man. Not gonna spend too much time engaging with this kind of thing, but there's literally NOTHING else like this currently on the market (in terms of a live plugin platform that offers DSP accelerated plugin processing with no restrictions). I don't know what rock you've been under, but engineers have been asking for that for YEARS (ever since MultiRack/SuperRack locked out third party developers). So yes, sorry to break it to you, but that is game changing. Now we're seeing Waves desperately trying to catch up by opening up SuperRack native... so yeah, the game has been changed.
Bullshit...Audiogridder is free and better
AudioGridder is cool, but not remotely the same thing.