Boom, bomb, boom alchemist finally has an identity besides from gearing the party. And hopefully not being reminded by the fighter that he is still better at throwing than you are.
I am excited for this one. I move how they fixed Alchemist's big flaw of "can legit run out of steam entirely" with the vials. And the Archetype is just strong enough to see some milage too, so i really like these changes. The ONLY thing im surprised about is that they didnt give them automatic progression with Crafting like they did Inventor. Thats the one thing i figured would be an auto include.
I guess the big difference is that Crafting is a mandatory skill for the Inventor, as in it being used in combat quite regularly, while an Alchemist only uses the Crafting skill in Downtime and for a small selection of feats, so one could make the choice not to specialize in it.
@@Randomdudefromtheinternetalchemists use crafting the same way a wizard does arcana There’s be no reason to give them auto scaling unless you’re going to give every class auto scaling
Pernicious Poison is designed to let you do at least some poison/acid dmg if the enemy succeeds on their saves. It also works with inhaled poisons that you make and use with quick alchemy (2 actions for mustard powder or yellow musk vial for example). It can’t affect the Field/Quick Vial injury poison because that usage doesn’t proc a save. It just adds extra dmg to the strike, no save needed.
Oh, the blowgun poisoner feat actually got a massive buff. It now causes the save result to be one step worse, rather than just turning a fail into a crit fail. That means that it turns a regular success into a fail. That is huge. It does still need you to crit hit, which is annoying, but now its actually worth considering.
They lowered poison damage in the remasters to about 1/3rd of what it was, and lowered some of the stronger poison dcs.. I don't see poisons being used much in the future for damage.
@@ShadowAraun And? Toxicologist alchemist already existed, and it had the feature to make poison dcs = class dcs and compared to the previous Toxicologist the new one is often worse. Damage on poison as a whole was heavily decreased. Toxicologist alchemists now can create significantly less poisons per a day. Versatile vials only work with injury poison, it takes an action to fashion one and another action to apply, and it expires at the end of your turn. The big issues with the changes are, at least for Toxicologist, lowered damage, duration not matching use case, lack of long-term items to apply out of combat, and an even more severe feat investment requirement.
@@chrisbaldwin8570I think you have misread the features. Versatile Vials gives you 2+INT in a resource that regenerates between combats. This resource can be used to: 1) draw the vial like a bomb (1 action) throw the bomb (1 action) (2 total actions, 1 action with quick bomber) 2) quick alchemy the vial into a consumable (like a *named* injury poison) (1 action) and apply it to your weapon (1 action) and this effect remains active for 10 minutes. 3) quick alchemy the vial into an inhaled poison (1 action) that you deploy immediately (1-2 actions) 4) use the field vial option where you apply the vial as an injury poison (1 action) and strike (1 action) this version doesn’t proc a saving throw at all - it’s just extra dmg dice added to your strike - so the poison becomes inert at the end of this turn. 5) when you are out of versatile vials, you can create a field vial with quick alchemy (1 action), apply it as an injury poison (1 action) and strike (1 action). 6.) when you are out of versatile vials, you can create the base vial bomb with quick alchemy (1 action), and strike (1 action) (2 total actions, 1 action with quick bomber)
@@chrisbaldwin8570toxicologist is definitely not weaker, since now it’s whole gimmick (poisons) isn’t made null and void by a significant portion of the enemies having poison resistance or straight up immunity - Undead and Constructs are almost entirely completely immune, and elementals, demons, devils and daemons have a fairly large proportion of poison immune creatures.
I recently made an Inventor with Alchemist Dedication for a oneshot that got me more interested in checking out the class. Now with the Remastered version I'm excited to try out a full classed Alchemist because it looks awesome!
While I will be forever salty about the loss of infused reagents since I personally think that design is very interesting, I will admit this version of the Alchemist is overall just better in design and accessibility. I just hope that at some point in time we will see this design space explored by a new class, I just really loved the concept of a class choosing how many of their 'spell slots' would be prepared and how many would be spontaneous.
Just a quick, needlessly nitpicky correction regarding the additive trait. Pre-remaster, the additive trait didn't reduce the item level, it actually increased the item level of the item by the additive value, so additive 2 would increase an item lvl by 2. It was an overcomplicated way of saying "you can only use additive feat for item X lvls lower than your current lvl", and im glad that changed it.
I'm about 28 mins in and wanted to point out something I've seen a couple other people mention with the versatile vials .< I didn't expect to type this much but I'm extremely passionate about Alchemist classes in games and I'm hoping that assuming what I've seen on other videos is correct, that this information is the intended way for it to work and that this info and perspective could be really helpful to people. Because the way I see it, if Quick Vial consumes a vial then it seems worse in almost every case than other quick alchemy, but if it doesn't then it seems to like a very strong but balanced option. Of course, I do feel like there needs to be clarification because while Bomber and Chirurgeon have bomb effects on their vials, they can be very action efficient. But regarding Mutagenist and Toxicologist, it does look like they need to spend one action to create a Quick Vial, then a second to use it (which at 17 when permanently quickened isn't a big deal, but at lower levels, it could lead to a toxicologist archer being stuck into "create vial -> poison arrow -> shoot arrow" for their full damage) though I'm generally someone that focuses more on support, so to more experienced damage focused players, three actions to have a higher chance (particularly with master proficiency and potentially off-guard, etc if the party sets it up) to inflict two attacks worth of damage in a single full accuracy attack might sound much more reasonable.
Healing vials made with quick alchemy get the coagulant trait which makes creatures temporarily immune to healing vials and any items with that trait in 10 mins. So you cant really spam quick vial elixers
good catch, made me rethink and read again It seems that quick vial is only viable for Bomber with Quick Bomber, the other fields need 2 action to do their thing. Chirurgeon would need Healing Bomb feat to use Quick Bomber and would need to spend versatile vials to create elixir of life (heling bomb only works with Elixir of Life not with quick vials also Field Vial use interact action not strike to throw)
@@irwingbrasil Ah you're right :o I was focused on the fact it didn't say it lost the bomb trait (like the mutagenist says) and missed that its listed as an interact action instead. Its still better than the chirurgeon healing turn of "move, draw elixir, force feed" XD so I'm still happy with the improvements at least. I suppose this puts it more in line with cantrips like rousing splash. (Which I believe is 2-actions)
You kept mentioning you didn't like that mutagens are capped to last 10 minutes but honestly they had to do that. Now that you can generate near infitine quick alchemy, without this stipulation you could just permanently have your party under the effects of mutagens for the rest of the day at no opportunity cost. Once you get mutagens lasting one hour you spend your quick alchemy for each party member and in 20 to 30 minutes (depending on party size) you recovered the resources spent on it, and they will last for another 40 to 30 minutes. And you keep doing that for permanente mutagen effects as long as you're not pressed for time. That seems too strong and needed to be avoided I think.
I mean just add a clause to not let anyone else but the mutagenist have those super long durations and makes thematic sense as you master your chosen mutagen. I very much like the idea of an always on mutagen for the Alchemist as they level up.
I just realized: Quick Alchmy effect durations are limited to 10 minutes. Alcohol has a onset and stage 1 of 10 minute duration. You can make Alcohol that will never get you drunk!
I was going to begin playing a Toxicologist and the only thing that bothers me is that the improved DC on Early poisons was moved to Level 5 with Potent alchemy instead of a natural feature of Toxicologist at 1st level
At the very least, early on you don't have many selections for poisons to begin with, so the DCs don't vary wildly and they're not competing with a whole lot. I think a bigger concern is more that the poison damage overall was nerfed for a lot of poisons. Being able to apply poisons to immune targets, and use both acid and poison at once makes up for it a bit at least.
@@Zedrinbot not to mention your field vial poison doesn't require a save, it happens with the strike, which I assume was the intention for early game Toxicologists before poisons get cool and unique effects.
For injury poisons, their DC actually stays pretty close to the standard Class DC progression when compared by the level you get them, never higher than the Class DC by more than 2. Contact poisons, on the other hand, often have DC's higher than the standard Class DC.
Huh. Given the Versatile Vials can be used to make regular consumables and there's no mention of that granting Elixirs of Life the Coagulant trait that means ALL alchemists have near infinite out of combat healing (two vials recharging per 10 minutes). The coagulant cap seems to really only cap the nice ability the Chirurgeon now seemingly has to Quick Bomber healing versatile vials. I wonder if that's intended?
and if you need something to do for 10 minutes you can treat wounds while refocusing while regaining vials. dip into the oracle archetype for that insane Whispers of Weakness feat for some insane in combat support as well (i know, its a cha tax, but that feat is nuts. 1 action cursebound auto tells you a targets weaknesses and lowest save then gives you a +2 status to your next attack again it once per day per creature) paizo gave us so many fun toys.
Came here to say that. Also, at level 20 you're permanent quickened for quick alchemy, and have double brew, and can have quick bomber, so you could make two bombs as your quickened action, throw one because of quick bomber, add mega bomb to the other, spend two actions throwing the mega bomb, and have one action left over to Avert Gaze because cool guys don't look at explosions. Edit: No, that's not quite right. You wouldn't have the extra action because you can Double Brew with Quick Bomber, but Abundant Vials only makes a Quick Vial.
except mutagenist, who has to frontload mutagens or use versatile vials to make one or two (they have actual durations though, so of course you only need 1 or 2 per fight anyhow) but then you can use quick vial to get the temp hp and resistance ad infinitum
I have been playing a Toxicologist, and before the remaster it was very rough going. Bypassing immunity is massive, but there are a lot of other issues that remain completely unaddressed. Poisons still require a hit and then a fort save, they are even lower in damage now in some cases. Most of all, the action economy for using them is still pretty bad. I very much appreciate being able to actually use my poisons in each adventure, but I don't expect poisons to be any less niche unless I am missing something massive.
One thing worth noting, the versatile vials just add poison damage, not a poison affliction, so you now have an option for more reliable damage that doesn't require a Fort save.
For my toxicologist, I took the Dual-Weapon archetype with Dual-thrower, so at least had two chances to hit, so a higher chance for a failed save. It's still not a sure thing, but I have had some luck with opponents rolling badly for their save.
So quick thing alc can make an unlimited basic versatile vials so unlimited bombs or what ever you specialize in. So in combat you don't have to just wait because you can use quick alc to make a temp versatile vile that works like a normal one that does not last as long.
The main gameplan for toxicologist is not to apply VVs in battle to do a pitiful damage. You should just prepoison 6 weapons (that take you 36 seconds) before a battle. That will be very strong poisons with an additive to a damage if enemy fails their save. You will have a 10 minutes before that poisons will disappear, but for the most battles you will be able to do that. That's what makes Toxicologist really good now. Pick 4 charki, poison them, poison 2 weapons for your team members and then throw them under QS mutagen for a better chance to hit. Charki (or a returning rune weapons) will return to you on a miss, so you can try to add your poison again. Using your VVs as weak poisons is really bad and mostly just a back up plan C
I like alot of the "base class" and feat changes, I do worry about the number of AA vials and VV we get as it feels like it may not actually last the entire fight. But we will see. On the toxicologist, the problem with them is that their poisons now need to be all your AA vials as the VV is going to be very action intensive. So my current toxicologist is running around with 12-15 poisons on him, and thats going to cut down to 8 if I "upgrade".
The changes seem good and I like your content. My groups issue with the Alchemist from levels 1-5 boils down to this. Dude makes a bomb, (action). Dude throws a bomb and misses because his attack is bad. Dude does 1-2 points of splash damage. Dude passes turn. Very very very seldom did splash damage trigger a weakness. Also the healing that this guy did was not on par with the Paladin or the Cleric. The class just felt super weak and I tried like mad to help the dude and give him bonuses. In short I probably should have just said you get a +4 to hit in addition to whatever else you have. We might suck at this game, and I concede that, but he was by far the worst character in the group. He switched out characters at level 5 and is now happier.
I think the Pernicious Poison feat not applying to quick vial poison isnt a problem because they dont require saves. The base versatile vial just adds poison damage, not a poison affliction, so no save required.
I would agree the toxicologist doesn't get the prep advantage they used to enjoy, but I would say they have gained a few nice benefits from the new field features, the ability to be able to hit things with poison immunity should not be understated.... OMG I just noticed the giant hole in your chest!!!
wont you be able to still prepare your allies ahead of time with poison? one you have applied the poison and used it so the poison last 10 mins. right?
At all the tables I played at for some reason using quick alchemy breaking open the pot pouring over they're blade didn't count as using it so if they didn't strike with it right then poof nothing nada zip may as well have wasted my turn giving them a figurative hand by clapping at least then it might have been a distraction
Good point, but hopefully you don't have one of those DMs who just sort of spawns enemies on top of you all the time, or who listens to the players talk for 2 minutes and then announces that an hour has passed. 10 minutes notice on prep time leaves a lot of room for the DM to decide whether or not your character can function properly in any given encounter.
Mega Bomb doesn't exactly cost 3-actions because at this level your Quick Alchemy is Quickened (so you have an extra action to use it) potentially allowing you to thrown a bomb + mega bomb with your 3-actions effectively removing the MAP and increasing the AoE of the bomb full effect.
In the Alchemy class feature, the very first one where you talk about how you can automatically identify alchemical items that you have the formula for, it mentions something that I've not seen other people get excited about. Perhaps this is because I am misreading this. Under the section you showed, it mentions that "as normal", if you have a base crafting recipe, you don't need the formula for higher level versions of the same item. The example it gives is that if you have the formula for minor elixir of life, you can craft minor, lesser, moderate, greater, major, and true elixirs of life when you reach the appropriate levels. Can you confirm this? Does this only work for crafting outside of Advanced Alchemy/Quick Alchemy, or does it apply with those features as well? If this is new, then it's a huge buff to the number of recipes you get over your alchemist's career. If it's not new, I've been playing an alchemist very wrong! Lol.
Omg please answer me this under quick alchemy it says make a versatile vial that must be used for a bomb or field discovery does that mean with quick bomber you can throw three bombs a turn for free at -0-5-10?
@@theebadluckgamer well understanding that completely changes my mind on this 😂 I will miss my old style of using doable brew (my dm said it was ok with perpetual after I showed up the up to wording for reagents) for 2 lower lvl bombs and took two weapon warrior for duel thrower and that one that hits on a miss but not crit miss
@@theebadluckgamer, thanks for your answer, but i have another one question. I'm preparing with my friends for our first Pathfinder session, till this moment we were playing D&D, so everything is a little bit new for me. I can't understand one thing as a alchemist beginner. At first level i know 8 formulas: • 2 bombs (Bomber) • 2 standard (formula book) • 4 common from the alchemical crafting feat So i can choose for example: 8 bombs formulas or only 2 bombs and combination of 6 elixirs/poisons/ammunition/tools? I'm polish, maybe that's why i can't get these rules, it looks a little bit not clearly for me. Thank You in advance for your answer!
37:21 this feat is a freaking trap. Did you know that when you miss an attack with ammunition the poison is completely lost with no effect on the target? Are you really going to use a blowgun instead of a thrown or melee weapon, where missing still lets you try again? No. The off chance of doing a little better on a crit doesn't outweigh the amount of poison you'll lose - doubly so now that you have far less poisons on weapons going into each fight due to perpetual infusions and 2*Level items from advanced alchemy no longer being a thing. 37:44 "If you get the chance to sneak up on an enemy camp there's a good chance you can poison all the enemies" ---- I dare you to try this build. Watch how pathetically ineffectual this is in practice.
It's called an assassin build mate. Boost up your Stealth checks or chug an invisibility potion, and now you are hidden which makes all your targets off-guard to lower your chance of missing. Also this feat gives you a huge Stealth boost Rogues would give their left eye to have with the whole "you don't become automatically observed" bit.
@@UnrealMisterD The stealth isn't what's going to do you in. It's the fact that the poisons are saved against at equal level 67% of the time past level 5, and you just don't have enough of them. That's why I challenge someone to actually try this build - they'll realize that all the stealth in the world means they'll be doing 1 damage per strike due to blowgun being blowgun, at a master-2-levels-late character with INT as primary stat, waiting 10 minutes to try 2 or 3 more poisons, which most likely won't do anything at all, or enter stage 1 then immediately exit the poison again. Sooner or later your stealth roll will be bad, and they have all the time in the world to wait with your dinky tiny damage output.
i think i can play a better mutagenist by selecting the chirurgeon field. A frontliner alchemist with the right feats wpuld benefit better with chirurgeon healing than mutagenist abilities.
Yeah they really don't seem to understand how to make a good mutagenist. You can get a better mutagenist shy of combining 2 mutagens by taking chirugeon, using Juggernaut for tankiness along with the level 8 feat which just makes the mutagenist offerings useless or go damage with beastial. I really don't like feats leaning into specific mutagens as it just makes future ones weaker. I'd much rather classifications within them or scaling benefits based on the tier of mutagen you are using so that all are viable.
For the bomber the loss of perpetuals really hurts. You get 6-7 vials per combat and you can potentially throw 2-3 per turn which means after 2-3 turns you are out of ammo unless you dip into your limited daily advanced alchemy. Even at lower item level with slightly less damage still being able to throw an item was nice. Plus if you are going for effects more than damage it doesn't matter that it's lower level, like throwing dread vials which put fear on enemy. Or lightning which makes them flat footed. Or if you more just throwing them out there for splash damage vs enemy weakness you are gonna wanna keep throwing even if they lower level cause if you can feat or now feature that uses INT for splash damage it doesn't matter it's lower level item. EDIT: Also since Advanced Alchemy doesn't increase on it's own and needs a feet you are pretty much stuck with 8 Daily items until level 10 if you increase your INT to 5. And you have to spend a feat at level 10 to increase that to 13 then at level 16 it's 15. At a glance it might sound like a lot but it's actually kinda low because most casters have more spell slots than alchemist have daily items rather quickly. Most cast by level 5 will have 3/3/2 spell slots. By level 10 they will have 15 spells with a few on the higher end a lot more powerful than the 13 daily items the alchemist has and they didn't need to spend a feat. Come level 16 Casters have 24+ spell slots which continue to grow where as alchemist is pretty much topped off at 15 Daily items. While casters also get unlimited cantrips. Honestly the more I think about it why even bother with the limited versatile vials and their regen? They are used for quick alchemy only which most effects only last for a single turn and max 10 minutes. Most research fields are not going to be downing that many of them so 6 per combat seems like a fair amount. While bomber is gonna be tossing them left and right. Since they auto gen out of combat they don't even slow party down and just comeback which is gonna make it another thing that needs tracking. The other option is make Double brew only consume 1 vial as combat doesn't tend to last 6-7 rounds. Most of my fights seem to take 3-5 rounds. Being an alchemist before getting the perpetual feat I was very aware of tracking how many I toss in combat and wouldn't risk the MAP on limited use advanced alchemy in the early levels so I'd track it really close. Then when I got perpetual I could throw to my hearts content which saving the prepped ones for know weaknesses and bigger fights.
@@anarchium_wellsquest A lot of stuff covered and don't recall hearing that as I was listening to the video. Went back and checked the quick alchemy section as the full text was posted on screen and I see Quick Vial now in the full description there but the way he made it sound in the video was that there was only the versatile vials which got used up as part of quick alchemy. So I think he skipped over quick vials or mentioned it so fast I missed it.
@@anarchium_wellsquest Done some more combing through the pictures of the rules and there are some concerns. The vial is only ONE type of damage unless you are bmbr research and even then the damage type is very limited compared to the old perpetual which could choose any bomb for both damage type and status effects. Also with the lost of perpetual is the loss of the feats which allow you to get perpetual from other research fields. So even non-bmbr could get unlimited bmb of a specific type if they wanted. So assuming I'm reading this correctly a lot of versatility was lost here. For me I liked to get perpetual Dread Vials so I could fear a lot of things.
@PyroMancer2k lol, yeah but part of the problem is that nothing else was viable BUT using status effect bombs, which implied you want bomber. you can still make 6 dread bombs per combat no matter your subclass
31:02 They didn't fix the fundamental problem of the Toxicologist, and despite the buffs the subclass is effectively nerfed by hitting it at its weakest point: *BY FAR* the highest save among creatures is Fortitude, to the point where at equal level monsters will save against the Toxicologist's class DC 65-70% of the time at level 5... and it stays there until level 20. To get value out of poisons you need to start every fight with all the party's weapons poisoned, and accepting most do nothing. Poisoning *everything* is *very resource intensive* - especially for parties larger than 4 - and by limiting the total amount of poisons a Toxicologist can use per fight for most of their career to practically 14, and 6 after that, and possibly 2 if they continually reapply their versatile vials because they don't know WHEN a fight is coming... they can no longer do the thing that their entire subclass was designed to do. Sure, they can now poison robots. Woohoo. Those robots *also* save 2/3 of the time, and while pre-remaster they could prepare enough poisons to succeed in volume now they just can't put down enough poisons pre-combat to make a difference.
They can now make unlimited temp versatile vials mid combat, so this plus one feat and a familiar makes it so you have unlimited poison for your whole team.
Toxicologist remains one of the worst alchemist specializations, they're so afraid of it, but it also is basically insanely unlikely to affect enemies in the first place. You have to homebrew it so much just to make it feel decent, the action economy on it is terrible, and it's just like they've never thought about these things. You basically are relegated to being a vending machine for other people.
Boom, bomb, boom alchemist finally has an identity besides from gearing the party. And hopefully not being reminded by the fighter that he is still better at throwing than you are.
I am excited for this one. I move how they fixed Alchemist's big flaw of "can legit run out of steam entirely" with the vials. And the Archetype is just strong enough to see some milage too, so i really like these changes.
The ONLY thing im surprised about is that they didnt give them automatic progression with Crafting like they did Inventor. Thats the one thing i figured would be an auto include.
I guess the big difference is that Crafting is a mandatory skill for the Inventor, as in it being used in combat quite regularly, while an Alchemist only uses the Crafting skill in Downtime and for a small selection of feats, so one could make the choice not to specialize in it.
@@maxtheredgm Fair reasoning, but still it would've been good to give it to the alchemist as a courtesy.
@@Randomdudefromtheinternetalchemists use crafting the same way a wizard does arcana
There’s be no reason to give them auto scaling unless you’re going to give every class auto scaling
Pernicious Poison is designed to let you do at least some poison/acid dmg if the enemy succeeds on their saves. It also works with inhaled poisons that you make and use with quick alchemy (2 actions for mustard powder or yellow musk vial for example).
It can’t affect the Field/Quick Vial injury poison because that usage doesn’t proc a save. It just adds extra dmg to the strike, no save needed.
Oh, the blowgun poisoner feat actually got a massive buff. It now causes the save result to be one step worse, rather than just turning a fail into a crit fail. That means that it turns a regular success into a fail. That is huge. It does still need you to crit hit, which is annoying, but now its actually worth considering.
VV + toxicology being able to choose acid or poison is fantastic. Hope to see more alchemists in games going forward.
They lowered poison damage in the remasters to about 1/3rd of what it was, and lowered some of the stronger poison dcs.. I don't see poisons being used much in the future for damage.
@@chrisbaldwin8570 but at 5th level alchemist get to use their class dc instead of the normal dc for infused alchemical items, including poisons.
@@ShadowAraun And? Toxicologist alchemist already existed, and it had the feature to make poison dcs = class dcs and compared to the previous Toxicologist the new one is often worse. Damage on poison as a whole was heavily decreased. Toxicologist alchemists now can create significantly less poisons per a day. Versatile vials only work with injury poison, it takes an action to fashion one and another action to apply, and it expires at the end of your turn. The big issues with the changes are, at least for Toxicologist, lowered damage, duration not matching use case, lack of long-term items to apply out of combat, and an even more severe feat investment requirement.
@@chrisbaldwin8570I think you have misread the features. Versatile Vials gives you 2+INT in a resource that regenerates between combats. This resource can be used to:
1) draw the vial like a bomb (1 action) throw the bomb (1 action) (2 total actions, 1 action with quick bomber)
2) quick alchemy the vial into a consumable (like a *named* injury poison) (1 action) and apply it to your weapon (1 action) and this effect remains active for 10 minutes.
3) quick alchemy the vial into an inhaled poison (1 action) that you deploy immediately (1-2 actions)
4) use the field vial option where you apply the vial as an injury poison (1 action) and strike (1 action) this version doesn’t proc a saving throw at all - it’s just extra dmg dice added to your strike - so the poison becomes inert at the end of this turn.
5) when you are out of versatile vials, you can create a field vial with quick alchemy (1 action), apply it as an injury poison (1 action) and strike (1 action).
6.) when you are out of versatile vials, you can create the base vial bomb with quick alchemy (1 action), and strike (1 action) (2 total actions, 1 action with quick bomber)
@@chrisbaldwin8570toxicologist is definitely not weaker, since now it’s whole gimmick (poisons) isn’t made null and void by a significant portion of the enemies having poison resistance or straight up immunity - Undead and Constructs are almost entirely completely immune, and elementals, demons, devils and daemons have a fairly large proportion of poison immune creatures.
I recently made an Inventor with Alchemist Dedication for a oneshot that got me more interested in checking out the class. Now with the Remastered version I'm excited to try out a full classed Alchemist because it looks awesome!
While I will be forever salty about the loss of infused reagents since I personally think that design is very interesting, I will admit this version of the Alchemist is overall just better in design and accessibility. I just hope that at some point in time we will see this design space explored by a new class, I just really loved the concept of a class choosing how many of their 'spell slots' would be prepared and how many would be spontaneous.
Just a quick, needlessly nitpicky correction regarding the additive trait. Pre-remaster, the additive trait didn't reduce the item level, it actually increased the item level of the item by the additive value, so additive 2 would increase an item lvl by 2. It was an overcomplicated way of saying "you can only use additive feat for item X lvls lower than your current lvl", and im glad that changed it.
You got a hole in your heart gamer 😂
Took a minute for me to get this!
Heartless...
@@ChaosLuthien it takes a nobody to see a heartless 🤣
The hole in his chest is mesmerizing.
how didn't I see this until I read your comment lol
I'm about 28 mins in and wanted to point out something I've seen a couple other people mention with the versatile vials .< I didn't expect to type this much but I'm extremely passionate about Alchemist classes in games and I'm hoping that assuming what I've seen on other videos is correct, that this information is the intended way for it to work and that this info and perspective could be really helpful to people. Because the way I see it, if Quick Vial consumes a vial then it seems worse in almost every case than other quick alchemy, but if it doesn't then it seems to like a very strong but balanced option.
Of course, I do feel like there needs to be clarification because while Bomber and Chirurgeon have bomb effects on their vials, they can be very action efficient. But regarding Mutagenist and Toxicologist, it does look like they need to spend one action to create a Quick Vial, then a second to use it (which at 17 when permanently quickened isn't a big deal, but at lower levels, it could lead to a toxicologist archer being stuck into "create vial -> poison arrow -> shoot arrow" for their full damage) though I'm generally someone that focuses more on support, so to more experienced damage focused players, three actions to have a higher chance (particularly with master proficiency and potentially off-guard, etc if the party sets it up) to inflict two attacks worth of damage in a single full accuracy attack might sound much more reasonable.
This is how quick vials work yes
Healing vials made with quick alchemy get the coagulant trait which makes creatures temporarily immune to healing vials and any items with that trait in 10 mins. So you cant really spam quick vial elixers
@@jamesb3848 thats why they cited 11th level, at 11th level if the target is bellow half hp the versatile vial heal loses the coagulant trait.
good catch, made me rethink and read again
It seems that quick vial is only viable for Bomber with Quick Bomber, the other fields need 2 action to do their thing.
Chirurgeon would need Healing Bomb feat to use Quick Bomber and would need to spend versatile vials to create elixir of life (heling bomb only works with Elixir of Life not with quick vials also Field Vial use interact action not strike to throw)
@@irwingbrasil Ah you're right :o I was focused on the fact it didn't say it lost the bomb trait (like the mutagenist says) and missed that its listed as an interact action instead. Its still better than the chirurgeon healing turn of "move, draw elixir, force feed" XD so I'm still happy with the improvements at least. I suppose this puts it more in line with cantrips like rousing splash. (Which I believe is 2-actions)
You kept mentioning you didn't like that mutagens are capped to last 10 minutes but honestly they had to do that.
Now that you can generate near infitine quick alchemy, without this stipulation you could just permanently have your party under the effects of mutagens for the rest of the day at no opportunity cost.
Once you get mutagens lasting one hour you spend your quick alchemy for each party member and in 20 to 30 minutes (depending on party size) you recovered the resources spent on it, and they will last for another 40 to 30 minutes. And you keep doing that for permanente mutagen effects as long as you're not pressed for time. That seems too strong and needed to be avoided I think.
I mean just add a clause to not let anyone else but the mutagenist have those super long durations and makes thematic sense as you master your chosen mutagen. I very much like the idea of an always on mutagen for the Alchemist as they level up.
I just realized: Quick Alchmy effect durations are limited to 10 minutes.
Alcohol has a onset and stage 1 of 10 minute duration.
You can make Alcohol that will never get you drunk!
I was going to begin playing a Toxicologist and the only thing that bothers me is that the improved DC on Early poisons was moved to Level 5 with Potent alchemy instead of a natural feature of Toxicologist at 1st level
At the very least, early on you don't have many selections for poisons to begin with, so the DCs don't vary wildly and they're not competing with a whole lot.
I think a bigger concern is more that the poison damage overall was nerfed for a lot of poisons.
Being able to apply poisons to immune targets, and use both acid and poison at once makes up for it a bit at least.
@@Zedrinbot not to mention your field vial poison doesn't require a save, it happens with the strike, which I assume was the intention for early game Toxicologists before poisons get cool and unique effects.
If you are using on level poisons, your class DC should not help.
@@Folomus thay is simply not correct. maybe early game, but there are many points when a typical class dc is decently dwarfed by a poisons item DC
For injury poisons, their DC actually stays pretty close to the standard Class DC progression when compared by the level you get them, never higher than the Class DC by more than 2. Contact poisons, on the other hand, often have DC's higher than the standard Class DC.
Huh. Given the Versatile Vials can be used to make regular consumables and there's no mention of that granting Elixirs of Life the Coagulant trait that means ALL alchemists have near infinite out of combat healing (two vials recharging per 10 minutes). The coagulant cap seems to really only cap the nice ability the Chirurgeon now seemingly has to Quick Bomber healing versatile vials. I wonder if that's intended?
I think it is. Paizo seems to not mind put of combat heals, but they may be trying to limit the burst heal potential if I had to guess
and if you need something to do for 10 minutes you can treat wounds while refocusing while regaining vials. dip into the oracle archetype for that insane Whispers of Weakness feat for some insane in combat support as well (i know, its a cha tax, but that feat is nuts. 1 action cursebound auto tells you a targets weaknesses and lowest save then gives you a +2 status to your next attack again it once per day per creature)
paizo gave us so many fun toys.
Enduring Alchemy doesn't work for bombs, so you can't do that with Mega Bomb
Came here to say that. Also, at level 20 you're permanent quickened for quick alchemy, and have double brew, and can have quick bomber, so you could make two bombs as your quickened action, throw one because of quick bomber, add mega bomb to the other, spend two actions throwing the mega bomb, and have one action left over to Avert Gaze because cool guys don't look at explosions. Edit: No, that's not quite right. You wouldn't have the extra action because you can Double Brew with Quick Bomber, but Abundant Vials only makes a Quick Vial.
Great job as always love to see these as they come out.
Something you forgot to mention is that quick alchemy allows you to have infinite subclass abilities.
except mutagenist, who has to frontload mutagens or use versatile vials to make one or two (they have actual durations though, so of course you only need 1 or 2 per fight anyhow) but then you can use quick vial to get the temp hp and resistance ad infinitum
I have been playing a Toxicologist, and before the remaster it was very rough going. Bypassing immunity is massive, but there are a lot of other issues that remain completely unaddressed. Poisons still require a hit and then a fort save, they are even lower in damage now in some cases. Most of all, the action economy for using them is still pretty bad.
I very much appreciate being able to actually use my poisons in each adventure, but I don't expect poisons to be any less niche unless I am missing something massive.
One thing worth noting, the versatile vials just add poison damage, not a poison affliction, so you now have an option for more reliable damage that doesn't require a Fort save.
For my toxicologist, I took the Dual-Weapon archetype with Dual-thrower, so at least had two chances to hit, so a higher chance for a failed save. It's still not a sure thing, but I have had some luck with opponents rolling badly for their save.
@@asher8368 Toxicologist won't be poisoning dozens of shots each day with the changes though, so I am weary about trying for quantity like that.
I can't get over the fact that your shirt is transparent where your heart is. 😂
So quick thing alc can make an unlimited basic versatile vials so unlimited bombs or what ever you specialize in. So in combat you don't have to just wait because you can use quick alc to make a temp versatile vile that works like a normal one that does not last as long.
The main gameplan for toxicologist is not to apply VVs in battle to do a pitiful damage. You should just prepoison 6 weapons (that take you 36 seconds) before a battle. That will be very strong poisons with an additive to a damage if enemy fails their save. You will have a 10 minutes before that poisons will disappear, but for the most battles you will be able to do that. That's what makes Toxicologist really good now. Pick 4 charki, poison them, poison 2 weapons for your team members and then throw them under QS mutagen for a better chance to hit. Charki (or a returning rune weapons) will return to you on a miss, so you can try to add your poison again. Using your VVs as weak poisons is really bad and mostly just a back up plan C
Regurgitate mutagin seems really good to use the round before it would end anyway, just a little free damage.
I like alot of the "base class" and feat changes, I do worry about the number of AA vials and VV we get as it feels like it may not actually last the entire fight. But we will see.
On the toxicologist, the problem with them is that their poisons now need to be all your AA vials as the VV is going to be very action intensive. So my current toxicologist is running around with 12-15 poisons on him, and thats going to cut down to 8 if I "upgrade".
If you use one of the temp versatile vials it works just as well but cost an extra action
The changes seem good and I like your content. My groups issue with the Alchemist from levels 1-5 boils down to this. Dude makes a bomb, (action). Dude throws a bomb and misses because his attack is bad. Dude does 1-2 points of splash damage. Dude passes turn. Very very very seldom did splash damage trigger a weakness. Also the healing that this guy did was not on par with the Paladin or the Cleric. The class just felt super weak and I tried like mad to help the dude and give him bonuses. In short I probably should have just said you get a +4 to hit in addition to whatever else you have. We might suck at this game, and I concede that, but he was by far the worst character in the group. He switched out characters at level 5 and is now happier.
My next character will probably be an alchemist with the new changes.
I think the Pernicious Poison feat not applying to quick vial poison isnt a problem because they dont require saves. The base versatile vial just adds poison damage, not a poison affliction, so no save required.
I would agree the toxicologist doesn't get the prep advantage they used to enjoy, but I would say they have gained a few nice benefits from the new field features, the ability to be able to hit things with poison immunity should not be understated.... OMG I just noticed the giant hole in your chest!!!
wont you be able to still prepare your allies ahead of time with poison? one you have applied the poison and used it so the poison last 10 mins. right?
At all the tables I played at for some reason using quick alchemy breaking open the pot pouring over they're blade didn't count as using it so if they didn't strike with it right then poof nothing nada zip may as well have wasted my turn giving them a figurative hand by clapping at least then it might have been a distraction
Good point, but hopefully you don't have one of those DMs who just sort of spawns enemies on top of you all the time, or who listens to the players talk for 2 minutes and then announces that an hour has passed. 10 minutes notice on prep time leaves a lot of room for the DM to decide whether or not your character can function properly in any given encounter.
@@iang0th 2 applications every 10mins isnt much of a stretch though?
Mega Bomb doesn't exactly cost 3-actions because at this level your Quick Alchemy is Quickened (so you have an extra action to use it) potentially allowing you to thrown a bomb + mega bomb with your 3-actions effectively removing the MAP and increasing the AoE of the bomb full effect.
In the Alchemy class feature, the very first one where you talk about how you can automatically identify alchemical items that you have the formula for, it mentions something that I've not seen other people get excited about. Perhaps this is because I am misreading this. Under the section you showed, it mentions that "as normal", if you have a base crafting recipe, you don't need the formula for higher level versions of the same item. The example it gives is that if you have the formula for minor elixir of life, you can craft minor, lesser, moderate, greater, major, and true elixirs of life when you reach the appropriate levels. Can you confirm this? Does this only work for crafting outside of Advanced Alchemy/Quick Alchemy, or does it apply with those features as well? If this is new, then it's a huge buff to the number of recipes you get over your alchemist's career. If it's not new, I've been playing an alchemist very wrong! Lol.
This is for the new crafting rules introduced in the remaster so old alchemist didn't have this
Out of curiosity, did the Alchemist class kit change? Also, will you be doing a video on PC2's items?
No, and I may do some videos on them depending. Haven't planned that far ahead
Omg please answer me this under quick alchemy it says make a versatile vial that must be used for a bomb or field discovery does that mean with quick bomber you can throw three bombs a turn for free at -0-5-10?
Yes you can
@@theebadluckgamer well understanding that completely changes my mind on this 😂 I will miss my old style of using doable brew (my dm said it was ok with perpetual after I showed up the up to wording for reagents) for 2 lower lvl bombs and took two weapon warrior for duel thrower and that one that hits on a miss but not crit miss
how would pernicious posion even apply to a versatile or quick vial if those don't require saves? bit of an oversight from BLG
Wait your shirt no you have a hole through you. What weird Alchemy is going on there!?! 😂
Can pernicious poisin allow a contact poison to be lobbed at the enemy from afar instead of being close to dump it on them?
How many formulas does know alchemist bomber at 1st level? 4+2?
8, two standard, two bombs and 4 from the alchemical crafting feat
@@theebadluckgamer, thanks for your answer, but i have another one question.
I'm preparing with my friends for our first Pathfinder session, till this moment we were playing D&D, so everything is a little bit new for me. I can't understand one thing as a alchemist beginner.
At first level i know 8 formulas:
• 2 bombs (Bomber)
• 2 standard (formula book)
• 4 common from the alchemical crafting feat
So i can choose for example:
8 bombs formulas or only 2 bombs and combination of 6 elixirs/poisons/ammunition/tools?
I'm polish, maybe that's why i can't get these rules, it looks a little bit not clearly for me.
Thank You in advance for your answer!
@@gallanonim8108 Your second example is correct. As a level 1 Bomber, only the 2 formulas you get from being a Bomber are required to be bombs.
You have a hole in your chest!
hey mate, can you confirm if barbarians still have anathemas?
They do
37:21 this feat is a freaking trap. Did you know that when you miss an attack with ammunition the poison is completely lost with no effect on the target?
Are you really going to use a blowgun instead of a thrown or melee weapon, where missing still lets you try again? No. The off chance of doing a little better on a crit doesn't outweigh the amount of poison you'll lose - doubly so now that you have far less poisons on weapons going into each fight due to perpetual infusions and 2*Level items from advanced alchemy no longer being a thing. 37:44 "If you get the chance to sneak up on an enemy camp there's a good chance you can poison all the enemies" ---- I dare you to try this build. Watch how pathetically ineffectual this is in practice.
It's called an assassin build mate. Boost up your Stealth checks or chug an invisibility potion, and now you are hidden which makes all your targets off-guard to lower your chance of missing. Also this feat gives you a huge Stealth boost Rogues would give their left eye to have with the whole "you don't become automatically observed" bit.
@@UnrealMisterD The stealth isn't what's going to do you in. It's the fact that the poisons are saved against at equal level 67% of the time past level 5, and you just don't have enough of them. That's why I challenge someone to actually try this build - they'll realize that all the stealth in the world means they'll be doing 1 damage per strike due to blowgun being blowgun, at a master-2-levels-late character with INT as primary stat, waiting 10 minutes to try 2 or 3 more poisons, which most likely won't do anything at all, or enter stage 1 then immediately exit the poison again. Sooner or later your stealth roll will be bad, and they have all the time in the world to wait with your dinky tiny damage output.
Why poison damage suck so hard? Used to have nice damage (given the hoops you had to went through to deal that damage)
i think i can play a better mutagenist by selecting the chirurgeon field. A frontliner alchemist with the right feats wpuld benefit better with chirurgeon healing than mutagenist abilities.
Yeah they really don't seem to understand how to make a good mutagenist. You can get a better mutagenist shy of combining 2 mutagens by taking chirugeon, using Juggernaut for tankiness along with the level 8 feat which just makes the mutagenist offerings useless or go damage with beastial. I really don't like feats leaning into specific mutagens as it just makes future ones weaker. I'd much rather classifications within them or scaling benefits based on the tier of mutagen you are using so that all are viable.
👍
I am confused, what does the Coagulant trait do?
It's a limiting factor of only once per ten minutes also I think it means can be absorbed via skin?
@@THEdeadlynightshade1646 Thank you!
For the bomber the loss of perpetuals really hurts. You get 6-7 vials per combat and you can potentially throw 2-3 per turn which means after 2-3 turns you are out of ammo unless you dip into your limited daily advanced alchemy. Even at lower item level with slightly less damage still being able to throw an item was nice. Plus if you are going for effects more than damage it doesn't matter that it's lower level, like throwing dread vials which put fear on enemy. Or lightning which makes them flat footed. Or if you more just throwing them out there for splash damage vs enemy weakness you are gonna wanna keep throwing even if they lower level cause if you can feat or now feature that uses INT for splash damage it doesn't matter it's lower level item.
EDIT: Also since Advanced Alchemy doesn't increase on it's own and needs a feet you are pretty much stuck with 8 Daily items until level 10 if you increase your INT to 5. And you have to spend a feat at level 10 to increase that to 13 then at level 16 it's 15. At a glance it might sound like a lot but it's actually kinda low because most casters have more spell slots than alchemist have daily items rather quickly. Most cast by level 5 will have 3/3/2 spell slots. By level 10 they will have 15 spells with a few on the higher end a lot more powerful than the 13 daily items the alchemist has and they didn't need to spend a feat. Come level 16 Casters have 24+ spell slots which continue to grow where as alchemist is pretty much topped off at 15 Daily items. While casters also get unlimited cantrips.
Honestly the more I think about it why even bother with the limited versatile vials and their regen? They are used for quick alchemy only which most effects only last for a single turn and max 10 minutes. Most research fields are not going to be downing that many of them so 6 per combat seems like a fair amount. While bomber is gonna be tossing them left and right. Since they auto gen out of combat they don't even slow party down and just comeback which is gonna make it another thing that needs tracking. The other option is make Double brew only consume 1 vial as combat doesn't tend to last 6-7 rounds.
Most of my fights seem to take 3-5 rounds. Being an alchemist before getting the perpetual feat I was very aware of tracking how many I toss in combat and wouldn't risk the MAP on limited use advanced alchemy in the early levels so I'd track it really close. Then when I got perpetual I could throw to my hearts content which saving the prepped ones for know weaknesses and bigger fights.
Quick vial is unlimited bombs
@@anarchium_wellsquest A lot of stuff covered and don't recall hearing that as I was listening to the video. Went back and checked the quick alchemy section as the full text was posted on screen and I see Quick Vial now in the full description there but the way he made it sound in the video was that there was only the versatile vials which got used up as part of quick alchemy. So I think he skipped over quick vials or mentioned it so fast I missed it.
@@PyroMancer2k ok
@@anarchium_wellsquest Done some more combing through the pictures of the rules and there are some concerns. The vial is only ONE type of damage unless you are bmbr research and even then the damage type is very limited compared to the old perpetual which could choose any bomb for both damage type and status effects.
Also with the lost of perpetual is the loss of the feats which allow you to get perpetual from other research fields. So even non-bmbr could get unlimited bmb of a specific type if they wanted.
So assuming I'm reading this correctly a lot of versatility was lost here. For me I liked to get perpetual Dread Vials so I could fear a lot of things.
@PyroMancer2k lol, yeah but part of the problem is that nothing else was viable BUT using status effect bombs, which implied you want bomber. you can still make 6 dread bombs per combat no matter your subclass
31:02 They didn't fix the fundamental problem of the Toxicologist, and despite the buffs the subclass is effectively nerfed by hitting it at its weakest point:
*BY FAR* the highest save among creatures is Fortitude, to the point where at equal level monsters will save against the Toxicologist's class DC 65-70% of the time at level 5... and it stays there until level 20. To get value out of poisons you need to start every fight with all the party's weapons poisoned, and accepting most do nothing. Poisoning *everything* is *very resource intensive* - especially for parties larger than 4 - and by limiting the total amount of poisons a Toxicologist can use per fight for most of their career to practically 14, and 6 after that, and possibly 2 if they continually reapply their versatile vials because they don't know WHEN a fight is coming... they can no longer do the thing that their entire subclass was designed to do.
Sure, they can now poison robots. Woohoo. Those robots *also* save 2/3 of the time, and while pre-remaster they could prepare enough poisons to succeed in volume now they just can't put down enough poisons pre-combat to make a difference.
They also got hit on both ends since paizo nerfed poisons across the board. It's a shame
They can now make unlimited temp versatile vials mid combat, so this plus one feat and a familiar makes it so you have unlimited poison for your whole team.
You can also talk with your GM to use old poisons unless you play society
Parts of your T-Shirt were caught up in the greenscreen. You have holes in your chest.
Toxicologist remains one of the worst alchemist specializations, they're so afraid of it, but it also is basically insanely unlikely to affect enemies in the first place. You have to homebrew it so much just to make it feel decent, the action economy on it is terrible, and it's just like they've never thought about these things. You basically are relegated to being a vending machine for other people.