@@CornbreadOracle what annoyed me about this guys was the has soooo basic, he had everything at his finger tips and never bothered to become good at anything. as kids the had tennis lesson along with maths etc, the best teachers and mentors....yet nothing stuck with him. just an ignorant dude hooked on his looks. In the end it was his ignorance that done him in.
People did not idolize Jackie Kennedy because she dressed well. People respected the unfailing grace and dignity she displayed as the fallen president's first lady.
The description of Carolyn Bessette in this book was nothing like I remember of her public persona. She always seemed rather shy to me, painfully shy, in fact, around photographers, but I always chalked that up to how aggressive the paparazzi were around her trying to get that "perfect" photo. I don't believe JFK, Jr. would have married Carolyn if his mother was still alive at the time. I also think he would have been called on the carpet by his mother for having such an ugly, public fight with his girlfriend in the middle of a New York City park. Jackie Kennedy Onassis was a woman who understood the value of public perception, and I'm sure she would have insisted that her children behave with poise, grace and dignity and above all else not tarnish the Kennedy name. I did laugh out loud, Cheere, when you asked yourself why Carolyn just didn't hire help for the household chores. All that Kennedy money, and Carolyn's husband expecting her to cook, clean and wait on him hand and foot. He may have been People Magazine's "sexist man alive" of his time, but I think I would have hired help to clean up after my slob of a husband - LOL!
After listening to the books about Diana, Harry and Meghan and now JFK jr. I am so happy that money and privilege didn't ruin my kids or my life. My simple life looks great to me.
My ex husbands sister married a rich man 20 years her senior. He did fly a plane, he did go up to those wealthy places. Claimed he dated Diane Sawyer in his younger days. My ex sister in law was blonde, blue eyed, and very beautiful. She did come from a poor background. She reportedly ended up a some type of dinner thing where Carolyn was there (not John). Reportedly Carolyn was very haughty and said something condescending in an arrogant voice re: my ex sister in laws preference for burritos. Sounds crazy. Same rich man when they divorced (she got nothing) later on my husband spotted him in the news arrested for paying a woman in South Seattle to screw the 13 year old daughter. Wealthy does not mean intelligent, classy, confident or kind.
@@elizabethhopkins7582 What does that have anything to do with her comment in-sighting how a lot of times people will put the rich and famous on some kind of pedestal, as if they should automatically be praised and can do no wrong. It’s pretty obvious a person with any background can be a dick. But she’s specifically referring to the stereotype of wealthy people, hence the book is about wealthy people. So no, no one is stereo typing the poor. Get a grip. 😅
@@ashleycormier5714 Errr. I didn't say anyone was stereotyping the poor. These days it's very fashionable to stereotype rich people as though they are all the same. As though their money protects them from pain, they are all jerks, etc etc etc. That is much more true than putting them on a pedestal. This book feeds into that. People are willing to believe the garbage the author spews because John had money and a famous name. Does anybody here ask what it must feel like as a human being to never be able to be sure that people love you for yourself and not just for your money or who your Daddy was? Carolyn certainly seems to have fit that bill - he was something to be caught for status and a certain kind of lifestyle for herself. I don't think she really loved him - she loved what he represented. And then, when it didn't fit what she imagined in her head, when he wasn't really interested in living the lifestyle of other many wealthy people in New York; she quickly became disillusioned. Oh no! I have to cook! Are you even serious!!!????! He could have had anyone. He wasn't looking for a trophy wife. If he had been he would have chosen someone much more beautiful. He loved her. Empathy and compassion are to be extended to all human beings - rich, poor and everything in between. Some of the unhappiest people I have known in my life are the wealthiest ones.Most particularly those born into it. Because they can never really trust that anyone likes or loves them for themselves.
@@inaschultz1431 Doesn't sound like your ex SIL was very smart. I mean why does a beautiful girl think a much older guy - rich or poor - is marrying her? Because of her excellent personality?!? 🤣 I suppose she married him because of his excellent personality too?!? 🤣 And she got no money when they divorced? That never happens unless you are dumb enough to sign a prenup that says you won't get anything. Carolyn Besette didn't come from wealth so if she was rude you can't blame being wealthy for that.
Power is a huge aphrodisiac for the women in the Kennedy circles. I’m with you, I can’t imagine their looks were the draw. John was Bouvier beautiful, none of the Kennedy physical traits seemed obvious. You can tell Caroline is a Kennedy with one look.
I remember my 8 year old self watching the funeral of JFK with my father. He said “you’re watching history”. But he wasn’t at all impressed with the Kennedys & thought Kennedy wasn’t a very good president.
@@joanholg15 My much older cousin told me about Joseph Kennedy about 25 years ago. Like father, like son. I am older than you and remember Kennedy well and the Cuba crisis. That was enough to make him popular. I was too young to be interested in politics at that time.
This book is so interesting; I am sorry the author never mentions Mary Pinchot Meyer, one of JFK’s last lovers who was murdered execution style one year after his assassination in broad daylight in a Washington DC park. That might be a book in itself.
There is a book: Mary's Mosaic, by Peter Janney. His father, like Mary's husband, worked for the CIA, and he thinks his father might have ordered the hit.
Caroline Kennedy NEVER liked Carolyn. At the wedding Caroline Kennedy was FURIOUS that Carolyn was very late coming down the aisle. All they had in the chapel was candle light (no electricity).
I'm happy you are reviewing this book. I had written asking if you would. It's eye opening for me. I do want to say that I attended a Brown University Alumni weekend and there were several professors there who had John Jr. in classes. Without exception every one of them said what a sweet, ordinary good fellow he was. All charm. It was a well honed facade .
This sounds like two broken people-albeit good looking people. Life is about so much more than looks or image, but that seems to be all they had. What a shallow, empty existence. And then you put them together..BOOM!
For another interesting perspective on JFK Jr. & Carolyn Bessette and their relationship, I’d recommend _What Remains_ by Carole Radziwill, the widow of John Jr.’s cousin and close friend, Anthony Radziwill. She and Anthony saw a great deal of Carolyn and John, and my recollection is that in her book - it’s been several years since I read it - Carole R. speaks fondly of both of them and presents a friendlier view of their relationship than Maureen Callahan does. (Fwiw, I find it hard to like either of them.) The contrast is a real head-scratcher. Carole and Anthony were the first members of the family to learn of the disappearance of the plane John was piloting.
The problem with understanding anything the Kennedy's do, is that they aren't "normal." They are the 1 percent, and you and I and everyone else here in the comments, have never lived that life. Unaliving people, accidents, affairs, substance usage etc are all things that are inconveniences , throw some money at it, and it all goes away. If any of us did half of that stuff we'd be behind bars and have monitors on our ankles when/IF we got out.
@RayneSaltair I know, right? Yet some of them served famously in public office and turned on that "Kennedy charm". I'm still baffled by RFK, Jr.'s decade-long secret he held about his encounter with a dead baby bear...WTF!
I would NEVER have gotten on board that plane. Not for all the tea in China. Carolyn was a fool for putting up with all his pre-wedding shenanigans, and then marrying him. As far as picking up after him.....uh, that's a solid NO.
@kpax2066 My Mom had a co-worker who always used the phrase "Lincoln freed the slaves honey". It's been years since I thought about that, but I admit it came to mind when I heard this passage of the book - LOL!
Not for all the tea in China- I have heard this exact statement twice today… and I’ve never ever heard it before in my whole life-wow- that’s crazy. I understand what you mean, there’s no way I would have gotten on that plane. Ever- he was extremely reckless and immature.
Birds of a feather belong together. A waste of the public's goodwill, access to enormous resources, endless opportunities, and on and on. In my mind, neither (nor both as a pair) left much (if any) of a good legacy.
I think it’s really sad when a person can’t be true to self. Unconditional love is the only way. Relationships are hard enough to keep oneself under control, it’s much harder when you’re trying to control someone else. We all are just trying to do the best we can-Yes, she seemed very desperate.
My husband and I were both in grade 4 when JFK was shot in 1963. Then Dr King And Robert Kennedy. It’s hard to explain to those who didn’t experience it. Life stood still in the days between JFK passing and the funeral. Jackie Kennedy handled those days like a play and the whole thing was staged and the world was mesmerized . Everyone in my school walked solemnly into our school gym and watched it on a tiny black and white tv. At home we watched everything and the funeral parade with JFK jr saluting is seared in our minds. Then in the coming days Jackie was interviewed for days and called his presidency Camelot. The press bought it right up and fed this beautiful line to everyone. The next time I remember time stopping while we watched was 911 and the days that followed as we hoped for answers and more survivors. The facade famous put out for us to see has become a joke. Thank you for doing this book.
We are the same age. I also lived thru the Detroit riots, the DC sniper and was working right across route 1 from the pentagon on 9-11. I think our age group all has had a lifetime of post traumatic disorders.
I was only 7 when JFK was shot, but I do remember the reactions of people close to me. I watched the funeral with my mother. I think some of our generation's resilience comes from the nearly nonstop upheavals that have happened in our lifetimes...whether we were really paying attention or not.
i was in junior high ( now called middle school-grades 6 to 8 ) when the news broke about jfk,,,,,i was in the girls locker room and we all started crying.....there was such high hopes for jfk"s presdencey.....the days following was like everyone was in shock.the tv played the scene of his death over and over. and there was jackie in her pink jacket and skirt, covered in blood. standing beside the new presdent lyndon johnson still in her blood soaked clothing... being sworn into office on a plane.....the funeral was very touching as jackie stood there totally in black with a black veil over her pill hat and holding the hands of her 2 small children, carolynn and john-john.....for weeks newspapers cover the story, time-life magazine had pictures and my mom cutting out everything for a scrape book. it was bizzare.
Holy cow! Im of their generation and I always wondered why Carolyne’s mother didn’t want her to marry him. John Jr was a player and he once dumped Carolyn to get back together with Darryl Hannah.
The Kennedys were very charismatic. I don’t even think any of them were that good looking, but their personalities were very charismatic and could draw you in. Add to that the fact that the media was saying how great they were and then you just start believing it.
Money and Power are the aphrodisiac. Joe Kennedy had his mistress, Gloria Swanson, travel across the Atlantic with his wife, Rose, on the same voyage and each knew the other was there. Who would countenance that?
I read Carolyn was increasingly irked that JFK Jr. had met her mother, Ann Messina Freeman, but she had not met Jackie Kennedy Onassis. After meeting JFK Jr, Ann was concerned for Carolyn because JFK Jr. was charming but didn't appear to be a grounded person - not a good match for her Carolyn. Ann was pleased when the couple broke up in 1994, and sent Carolyn a note and newspaper clipping - of JFK Jr and Daryl Hannah reuniting - telling her to get on with her life. JFK Jr. later regretted not introducing Jackie to Carolyn, calling it “one of his main regrets". In 2001, Ann reportedly received millions in a wrongful-death settlement against JFK Jr. estate - who was fully to blame for the crash.
@@dolinaj1 Vanity Fair, New York Post after their deaths, and more recently Carole Radziwell (Cousin Antony's widow's) previous interview on Larry King Live. She was close to both John and Carolyn.
This is blowing my mind!!! I had no idea that Caroline or John were like this!! It's very similar to Meggy and Harry with the manipulation marrying the idiocy.
take it from someone who knows - ( I had a very similar experience) John loved his mom and I seriously doubt there was going to be a woman that was she was going to approve of . Somewhere deep down - probably unspoken - he knew that and probably cherry picked the positive attributes that she would have approved of and convince yourself that she would have . It ends up exactly like it sounds .
I am so glad that I found your book reviews/reads. Your delivery is amazing....your voice has a great intonation and clarity. And you're so wryly funny. I think you are amazing. So I only point this out to clarify, not pick. But I believe Carolyn's last name Bessette is buh-SET with the stress very much on the second syllable. Looking forward to your covering more books and even expanding what you react to.
@@purpurina5663 Yes, agrees. And that is what I said. There are two syllables and the stress, is as I indicated, on the second. I was just writing it out phonetically using the all caps to show the stress. I wanted to point this out in a helpful way because she is a really, really good commentator......Cheer Denise, you are awesome!.....I mean her overall delivery and side comments are just amazing. Some people get so harsh and nitpicky with youtubers who provide really good content.
The concept that the way to make yourself attractive to someone is to treat them badly is so foreign to me. I can’t imagine doing such a thing to anyone. I’ve always tried to follow the Golden Rule.
Fully agree. I am baffled by this idea. If people treat me badly, I accept that this is how they are in the world, and devote no further energy over there. Who has the time and patience for such juvenile games?
I agree. However, prior to my marriage, I dated a few men who had model good looks, were charming, and who were accustomed to having women melt in their very presence. I was reasonably attractive, but not gorgeous, and I was confident that I possess qualities that should be more highly valued than physical beauty. Therefore, I always disdained woman who fawned over men like that, so whenever I met these guys (some of whom had other, more impressive qualities than their looks), I was anything but admiring. One might say I treated them with some level of disdain, but I have to say that this tended to work like an aphrodisiac with men accustomed to having women fall all over them.
Agree totally. Im 51 now, when i was in my 20s in NYC the idea of "negging" was just starting. Men would say a weird backwards compliment and if you bit that was their signal that you would accept any terrible behavior. I didnt respond to it, not that i have some amazing sense of self, quite the opposite. I just get the ick immediately.
I have only two things to offer about Carolyn and John. One was that his sister Caroline was sneeringly disrespectful about Carolyn’s stiletto shoe choice for the wedding. It was all sand, after all. The other is that she went about making herself to some sort of icon, determined to outdo Jackie, who was no saint herself. The whole thing was so over the top. Like it’s all really a lie they expect the hoi polloi to believe. And to what end?
The media always fawned over him saying how down to earth he was. It was kind of strange to read that the author said that he was entitled and spoiled but makes sense.
@@chaswrhe was down to earth but this author has an Agenda of lies and exaggerated claims! The people who really knew John tell a completely different story!
@@athenaf8278- I didn’t really think she made JFK Jr., look horrible. He was reckless and not very bright, but, he wasn’t abusive to women in my opinion. The two women she uses to try and prove that point are bad examples. They both wanted him and were willing to engage in his reckless acts in order to appease him. I have zero sympathy for them.
I can’t really see how Carolyn garnered the attention she received except for who she married. She wanted the name, the fame and the money for sure according to those in the know. She quit her job, hid out in their condo, took drugs and looked miserable in the majority of random photos. Her mother was against the marriage and announced it at dinner the night before the wedding. To me, she was just looking for a wealthy man as some women do. She was tall with a nice figure but her facial features were large with pale eyes. She wore her uniform black at gala events and her casual clothes were typical of New York women at that time. John was smitten but had they lived, they would probably have divorced years ago and she would have appeared merely as a footnote in his life. 🤔
Carolyn was no angel.. She was addicted to coke and had took off right after their wedding to spend 2 weeks with her ex because she wasn't happy.. The one situation that really caused an issue was how she took a tantrum because her wedding gown didn't fit like a glove and she forced their guests to wait in that stifling hot church for over 2 hours..John's sister did not like her and this came straight from her best friend's mouth on national TV..She felt like she knew what she was getting into and that the constant whining about the Pap's trying to take her picture was just old..John had actually moved out and was living in a hotel when the crash happened..He didn't like the nonstop coke fueled partiies so he was giving her what she wanted..The afternoon of the crash had Carolyn holding their departure time up due to shopping and manicures..I was never impressed with either John or Carolyn however,I have read this book and it is very one sided with mainly bashing the Kennedy men while overlooking all of the additions and cheating that the women brought into their relationships..I hate one sided scenarios because as we all know it takes two to tango..I live in the south and I know how stifling hot it gets and to disregard her guest because her gown that fit like a glove was the hold up sorry I would have been walking back to the big house seeing red all the way..🤬
@judyholiday1794 I hate sticky, humid weather, and I would have been pretty grumpy waiting over an hour for the bride to arrive. I never understood why she was having trouble getting into the tight-fitted dress. Didn't she try it on for fittings beforehand? I thought, maybe it was the heat and humidity swelling up her body, but didn't she have air conditioning at the inn where all the wedding guests stayed? Maybe not...the church was not air conditioned and had to be lit with candlelight. It would have been better to have an early spring wedding. The South can get pretty clammy in the middle of summer!
I agree that Carolyn had her demons, but as pilot of that plane, it was John’s responsibility to use good judgment and make good decisions. He was reckless to fly that plane. When he saw how dark it had gotten, he should have cancelled their plans. He also flew recklessly, by tuning his radio to the wrong frequency, almost crashing into another plane, and flying over the ocean when he had no instrument training. He also refused his flight instructors offer to copilot with him.
@@francescaderimini2931 I would not have been a happy camper waiting in that heat for an hour for the wedding to begin. I bet a nice cool cocktail tasted good afterwards - LOL!
I could never have married someone as “thick as mince” as we say in Northern England, no matter how pleasing on the eye. I feel bad saying that about someone now deceased but fame has a habit of ruining peoples characters.
Exactly! If there is nothing in their heads, I lost interest very quickly … even if the packaging is pleasing to the eye! He was deffo as thick as mince. Irish mince! 🇬🇧
I had forgotten about all the tabloid drama surrounding their relationship; I was in my 20s for most of the 90s and had my own drama going on. Looking back on it from y 50s now, they both seem toxic.
LOL! Seriously! These people are dead. Have been for a long time. And anyone who believes that this book is truly factual, will believe anything printed.
When you join the dots about JFK jnrs behaviour it all makes sense when you realise he had ADHD, the messy forgetfulness, they are very hard people to live with, probably why he trouble passing exams, and poor business skills, the risk taking is all about getting the dopamine hit, its all part of the impulsive nature of ADHD
That is no secret - John was always "hype-active", which is what they used to call ADHD. There were articles about it when he was a child. Carolyn was no assets to him.
The Kennedys were idolised here in Ireland. My gran had a framed picture of JFK right beside one of the pope. At school, the nun constantly harped on about the wonderful Kennedys. It's great to hear the truth about them.
It is fascinating. I remember quite well when George debuted. I remember the Sexiest Man Alive cover (and he sure was). I remember the wedding and I remember sitting up all night with my mother the night they lost track of the plane. My mom was sobbing. She had bought into the Camelot thing hook, line and sinker. For me, it was more superficial. Magazine covers and such, so it's amazing to hear about what he was really like. And Carolyn too.
So this writer says that Carolyn knew everything: John had not enough hours logged, not trained to fly instruments, it was too late. She was scared, still went ahead, boarded the plane not just alone, but took her sister with her, believing that anything could happen. But the author doesn't say that Carolyn went for shopping last minute to get her perfect little dress, making John to wait for two hours. That was the reason they took off that late. Two hours earlier they could have arrived at day light without him needing to rely on instrument in the maze.
@emmacsak I also understand that Friday rush-hour traffic is always bad in NYC, so that was part of the reason for the delay. I imagine JFK, Jr. had to arrive early to do a pre-flight check of the plane and was required to file a flight plan, but there seems to be some inconsistency in that story. Knowing what an inexperienced pilot he was, I never would have flown with him at dusk yet alone allow my sister to board that plane. We all make bad decisions in our life, but sadly this was the ultimate one.
Calling John stupid and completely unathletc i feel very harsh Genetics play big role.Jfk had Addisons disease big stomach issues lots of physical problems 2 or 3 of their children stillborn or died i believe JFK jr also had ADHD or another learning disability ? Read that. Clearly hes not a saint but he also is human with human limitations
@@RoseSharon7777 In New York and especially in California the state bar exam is harder to pass than any exam be it in college or any graduate degree, including medicine. It's not a high school pop quiz.
I remember that fight being all over the news and was shocked how physical it got. The way they both engaged, it seemed sort of like their standard operation and not the first time. Maybe they were both chasing an image, but conflict arose when they saw reality was quite different. It is amazing the warning signs people just ignore.
Have been waiting for chapter 2, first time that I tuned in to your readings thought it would be something to listen to while doing things around the house, next time I looked at the clock it was 4am ! Now I limit myself with a timer ! Love your presentation
@@nancybarker1477 Disputed constantly. Extremely incorrect. Those who knew her know it was utterly & completely false. Read the heavily researched book about Carolyn written by Elizabeth Beller, which includes interviews of many people who spent years with Carolyn, both personally & professionally. Don’t spread false info you’ve read in “articles”. Peace 💛
I can’t believe the wedding story! I remember seeing photos of the candlelight tiny church and thinking how beautiful. Guess she had nothing to do with it
It’s fun getting your reaction. When I was done with this book I felt disgusted with most every person. It’s hard to feel sorry for any of the 3 that went down in that plane. I feel if Caroline had said hell no they would all be alive today.
Some women, especially then , were brought up to marry rich, powerful men. That was the goal, even if it meant the spending the rest of their lives looking the other way while their husbands cheated on and disrespected them
@@georgiabelle5176 And still are. New York and LA are full of young women like her who hope to land a rich and/or famous husband. My Mother used to say "the hardest way to make money is to marry it" and she was right.
I'm not a Kennedy fan, but Jackie was more than someone who dressed well. She led the impeccable restoration of the White House (the iconic Zuber papier peinte in the Diplomatic Reception Room was her doing). She was a huge proponent of historic preservation and the arts. And she was fluent in French, Italian and Spanish, and also spoke some German. She also worked as a photographer and book editor.
There were/are many much better looking men than any of the Kennedies, including JFK and John Jr, in my opinion. As for Jackie: she was a very unusual/odd looking woman and downright plain. I think the laudation of this family is ridiculous ... and typically American.
The tabloids helped create the intrigue. Stories and pictures form images far from the reality and of course the depicted persons love being shown in that glamorous unreachable light. Et voilá you have all these personalities who make the everyday person dream of that fairytale world . The fact that they’re mostly quite mediocre human beings is carefully curated and hidden in order to sell the tabloids.
@@natashantz5151 Thank you for mentioning this great CRIME! Jackie sent Teddy to negotiate for more money knowing the man was broken after the death of his son.
To Ari she was a part of his collection. To Jackie, Ari was her banker. And Maria Callas, who had been with him for years was put aside so Jackie could marry the Greek Tycoon. Very complicated relationships with the wealthy. All of the players were not nice people. Ari’s daughter, Christina, was a poor little rich girl and died too young. Very tabloid fodder.
These people are messed up. As a psychologist in training… I don’t even know where to start 🤔 narcissistic tendencies are pretty impervious to treatment. Personally, I don’t get the attraction to JFKjr at all. Not my type 😣
I was FOM at the Hyannis Resort that Ted used as his local headquarters in 1980. I put my foot down. You set up your own communication desk. Do not mess with me.
In person he was almost unbelievably handsome, charming, funny, fun, and a genuinely nice guy. I know NARCS up close and personal and he wasn't one. I think that maybe she was. She was an odd one that's for sure. He was crazy about her. I don't think she was really ever in love with him.
Please would you consider reading “ Once Upon A Time” by Elizabeth Beller? It gives a whole different view of Carolyn. This authoress doesnt like Carolyn but she sure likes Jackie. I think she got that wrong.
Just finished the audio version of that book. I feel that book portrayed her in a more sympathetic light, especially with quotes from her friends about how Carolyn was as a person
@@AspieRN1975 yes. I think this writer read too many tabloids stories about Carolyn instead of talking to the people who were her friends. According to them she was a kind, thoughtful person that children always took to. She was super close to all her family .
Words from his closest friends “self deprecating,sensitive, clumsy, forgetful, generous, insightful, quiet in crowds, sweet natured, exuded the life of a man who did not take himself seriously, inspiring, always optimistic about the future, genuine, loving and kind nature, sensitive, carried his fame with natural ease. A curious hesitancy and willingness to laugh at himself…”
😅😅😅 o my word, FINALLY someone else who didnt think much of the Kennedy's 'glamour'. I never thought they were anywhere near good-looking. And Jackie, is she not just plain weird looking? I'm no oil painting but i dont get called beautiful. In no way was she even remotely good looking. Always mystified me.
Agree. I think she was one of those people who sell the myth so well, you overlook reality. But rather than her looks (which can be appealing to some), I always felt her naïveté and dignity were feigned. She rubs me the wrong way.
It’s funny to me how they describe him as charismatic. My theory is, anybody that’s described as being ✨charismatic✨is either a complete psycho, a serial cheater, or they’re going to murder you in your sleep.
@SisterCrystal030@@TheDriftwoodlover not necessarily. JFK, Jr. was wholeheartedly involved in social issues such as poverty and homelessness and involved in charities that did meaningful work in those areas. To dismiss him as a narcissist (or evil charismatic) based on this author’s scurrilous accounts of his character is to be naive about her Agenda. His closest friends, who knew him best & who are willing to go on the record, have a totally different account and description of his character. I choose to believe them and my personal experience of him rather than this gossip rag which calls itself a so called “fact checked” biography! Her numerous ERRORS throughout this book give truth to many of the lies recounted in this “tell all” mess of erroneous jumbled fact and fiction!
Again, I think the author has been very harsh here and I think you’re buying into it wholesale. If you read Carole Radziwell’s book, “What Remains,” you get a somewhat different picture. Carole presents the faults and drug use, but she also presents a couple that loved one another but struggling to determine what was next for them. He wanted children, she was aghast at bringing them into a world where they couldn’t step outside the door of their home without flashbulbs going off. She was thrown by the press attention and he had trouble understanding because it had always been a part of his life. But they were in counseling because they did love one another and wanted to make it work. They were also both struggling with the impending death of is cousin, Anthony, and were very caught up in his treatment. Again, I feel the author is really emphasizing the worst, without presenting the best or at least the mitigating circumstances. I’m not trying to say JFK Jr. was an Angel…he was not. But he wasn’t as dumb and uncaring as he is being portrayed in this book.
Finally, yes I read that book as well and this depiction of both of them is infuriating. This book so far reads like a tacky tabloid. Geesh, it’s obvious she had little to none sources from someone that knew them. And any legitimate friend wouldn’t contribute to this trash😢story. It’s a tabloid, the trashier the better. Who cares if you ruin someone’s legacy. They’re cockroaches.
You make excellent points. I saw an interview with the author and could feel the hatred towards the men coming through the screen. Very biased writer, although I know the men were flawed. But aren’t we all to differing extent?
Agree- I think he was obviously embarrassed he was having trouble passing the bar,, he was living other’s expectations and his secretary of many years says he was a nice guy too
A good book to read is The Other Man. The model Michael Bergin had a relationship with Caroline Bessett. She went back & forth with JFK Jr. and Michael.
Stop the fricking jealousy. Max Mara clothing utilizes almost exclusively neutrals. Did he copy Carolyn Bessette? Her style has changed as she has gotten older obviously.
I’ve read several books that are more balanced- John was extremely ADHD off the charts which can be infuriating to live with. He forgets about meetings, always late, impulsive, hyperactive and that makes a partner crazy after awhile.. this author has no idea that this disorder it is real and has nothing to do with character.
I agree. A friend went to Brown with him and he would lose his keys (buried them in the dirt when they went skiing.....then it snowed.) Add money and the pressure and there you go. I miss those days in NYC.
ADHD, as an excuse, can only get one so far. By adulthood, one can only hope some compensatory mechanisms are in place. The total disregard for safety, selfishness, and obnoxious behavior just can't be blamed on ADHD.
@@lynne3051 I agree. I'm ADHD & would never even consider putting anyone else in danger to satisfy my own whims. Recklessness to JFK Jr's extent suggests other problems were in play.
@CheereDenise I am loving your review of this book and your very balanced perspective on the "American Royalty" aka the Kennedy family. I think the decades old moniker is extremely overrated and always have felt this way and it's nothing to do with my personal politics. I do wish more people would research who exactly it is they idolize. I would absolutely love to hear your opinions and insight on how the Kennedy's made their money from their early days--so many people are unaware of those facts. Looking so forward to the next chapter, and thank you.
JFK Jr. had over 300 hours logged, and about 36 in the Saratoga, half of which was solo. It's not like he was a newly minted VFR pilot, his CFI thought he was an "excellent" pilot.
Didn't they have a pilot (his instructor)scheduled to fly them and he didn't show at the last minute? There was a LOT weird about this accident. I read that anyhow.
Cheere, I agree w/you about the idolization of Jackie Kennedy. Besides being young & knowing how to dress(she was educated in this & her environment was how to dress & look…to get a man). I think 1 issue that endeared her to Americans is she restored the White House. Even though I know she had an army of experts to guide & help her, she did do “something “ as a 1st Lady. And she did help save a lot of our antiques & history belonging to the Presidents House. P.S. The pull of the Kennedy lure was they made Politics the Hollywood for the ugly!🤪
@jenniferlane6720 I agree, Jackie Kennedy poured her heart and soul into returning antiques and historical pieces to the White House during her tenure as First Lady. Everything she procured was either donated or purchased with funds raised...not a taxpayers' dime went into the project. I think she even designed the famous Rose Garden, but Melania Trump made some revisions during her tenure as First Lady.
I wonder if the Kennedy’s could built their dynasty in today’s time with social media and everyone having a camera in their pocket? John Jr had the beginning of the internet but he was still able to put the image he wanted forward.
Same here Cheere, I was young also, I remember their faces on magazines and remember the horrible events around their loss of lives, but I didn’t know anything about their love story- wedding or innermost moments. Great book so far.
Hi there. I was wondering if you could make a video sharing some tips/your experience about having a youtube channel. I'm a teacher, and many of my students have been urging me to start a channel, but I'm nervous about it.
Oh yeah! You should!! If it takes off, it’s nice to have that extra income as a teacher too 😉 so, what I would say is: 1. Pick a subject/topic you can talk about easily, otherwise you won’t come across naturally and as soon as people sense your discomfort, they tune out because it makes them uncomfortable watching. Plus, editing is a nightmare. And if you’re stopping and pausing and fumbling over your words you will stop making videos because it’s a pain to edit them. 2. Don’t copy anyone else’s channel idea; obviously in a broad sense there’s lots of channels doing the same thing (I review books just like a billion other channels) but find a way to put your own spin on your content so that you become a person people can’t find anywhere else. 3. BE YOURSELF!! People don’t care if you’re a little weird…in fact, that’s endearing when someone is unashamedly themselves and doesn’t keep apologizing or trying to be what the audience wants. Half the time the audience doesn’t even know what they want but you just showing up being yourself is SUPER refreshing and that makes people loyal! 4. Even if your videos aren’t great at first KEEP MAKING THEM!! Even if nobody is watching, KEEP MAKING THEM!!! Even when you think you should quit KEEP MAKING THEM! Don’t expect any traction for the first 100 videos. I know…that’s discouraging, but have that mindset so that the slog won’t feel personal. Most people have to put in that much work before they start seeing things pick up.
@@cheeredenise That's interesting to hear, Cheere. I know you started slowly (I'm not even sure why your videos were recommended to me by the UA-cam algorithm), but I find them truly enjoyable, and now look at you at 37.5K subscribers! Congrats!
I've read the book and am now re-reading again. These men are brutal. The women who literally strive to be with them makes me wonder about them. As a woman I would like to support them but I find it difficult.
I love listening to your commentary!!! That's why I tune in. If I didn't want your commentary, I'd just listen to the audio book. Don't listen to the naysayers. And you have a pleasant reading voice. You should be hired by publishers.
The one single photographer stalked JFK Jr and CB. She saw John John sitting in the park with his dog and hid in the public ladies restroom waiting for Bissette to arrive. Yes, it was not good behavior on their part, but, at the same time, I have zero respect for Coqueren (or however you spell it)
Here’s the thing, John was much more than what’s in this tacky book. The Robin Hood Foundation, JFK jr served on their board for eight years. He embraced the group's work to help the city's poorest. After his death, for his philanthropic work, an award was renamed in his honor.
If you marry for money, you pay for it.
This story is a prime example of why you don’t judge people based on whatever image they create for themselves, no one really know these people.
@rakhil1830 Absolutely!
I read the whole book and don't want to know these people. Felt especially bad for Rosemary--poor girl.
Our reality is made up of the stories we tell each other: some true, some nowhere near the truth. Trust, but verify.
@@dustbunny1461I agree, poor Rosemary. She lived to a ripe old age, too,, considering what her monstrous father subjected her to...so sad.
Very sad!!!😢
John & Carolyn were about as well matched as Charles & Diana! 😂
Or Wallis and David
That’s a great comparison. Unions of the rich/ highly successful and the royals are hardly ever about love. Those that are are unicorns.
Or Meagan and Harry.
@@MummyBrown Agreed. Those unions are transactional.
they were perfectly well matched.they were energetic twins like khourtney and travis.
"Knowing what clothes to put on is not a reason to idolize someone".
Amen. 🙂
Nor being a hunk
@@CornbreadOracle what annoyed me about this guys was the has soooo basic, he had everything at his finger tips and never bothered to become good at anything. as kids the had tennis lesson along with maths etc, the best teachers and mentors....yet nothing stuck with him.
just an ignorant dude hooked on his looks. In the end it was his ignorance that done him in.
People did not idolize Jackie Kennedy because she dressed well. People respected the unfailing grace and dignity she displayed as the fallen president's first lady.
😂True being Told
@@AT-cy7im this is an excellent point; he had no excuse to be so mediocre
The description of Carolyn Bessette in this book was nothing like I remember of her public persona. She always seemed rather shy to me, painfully shy, in fact, around photographers, but I always chalked that up to how aggressive the paparazzi were around her trying to get that "perfect" photo. I don't believe JFK, Jr. would have married Carolyn if his mother was still alive at the time. I also think he would have been called on the carpet by his mother for having such an ugly, public fight with his girlfriend in the middle of a New York City park. Jackie Kennedy Onassis was a woman who understood the value of public perception, and I'm sure she would have insisted that her children behave with poise, grace and dignity and above all else not tarnish the Kennedy name. I did laugh out loud, Cheere, when you asked yourself why Carolyn just didn't hire help for the household chores. All that Kennedy money, and Carolyn's husband expecting her to cook, clean and wait on him hand and foot. He may have been People Magazine's "sexist man alive" of his time, but I think I would have hired help to clean up after my slob of a husband - LOL!
Her closest friends say that’s true. And how caring she was to her friends.
After listening to the books about Diana, Harry and Meghan and now JFK jr. I am so happy that money and privilege didn't ruin my kids or my life. My simple life looks great to me.
My GOD THIS WOMAN IS SOOOO SNARKEY 🤔🤨😳😱. I HAVE A ? FOR HER HAVE YOU HAD "ANY" THERAPY IF NOT ITS TIME TO GET SOME!!!!! 🤨
WOW DEEP EMOTIONAL WOUNDS IN THIS WOMAN READY THIS BOOK YIKES 😳
My ex husbands sister married a rich man 20 years her senior. He did fly a plane, he did go up to those wealthy places. Claimed he dated Diane Sawyer in his younger days. My ex sister in law was blonde, blue eyed, and very beautiful. She did come from a poor background. She reportedly ended up a some type of dinner thing where Carolyn was there (not John). Reportedly Carolyn was very haughty and said something condescending in an arrogant voice re: my ex sister in laws preference for burritos. Sounds crazy. Same rich man when they divorced (she got nothing) later on my husband spotted him in the news arrested for paying a woman in South Seattle to screw the 13 year old daughter. Wealthy does not mean intelligent, classy, confident or kind.
@@inaschultz1431 Neither does being poor 🙄
Stereotype much?
She saw the signs, but ignored them
@@elizabethhopkins7582 What does that have anything to do with her comment in-sighting how a lot of times people will put the rich and famous on some kind of pedestal, as if they should automatically be praised and can do no wrong.
It’s pretty obvious a person with any background can be a dick. But she’s specifically referring to the stereotype of wealthy people, hence the book is about wealthy people.
So no, no one is stereo typing the poor. Get a grip. 😅
@@ashleycormier5714 Errr. I didn't say anyone was stereotyping the poor.
These days it's very fashionable to stereotype rich people as though they are all the same. As though their money protects them from pain, they are all jerks, etc etc etc. That is much more true than putting them on a pedestal.
This book feeds into that. People are willing to believe the garbage the author spews because John had money and a famous name. Does anybody here ask what it must feel like as a human being to never be able to be sure that people love you for yourself and not just for your money or who your Daddy was? Carolyn certainly seems to have fit that bill - he was something to be caught for status and a certain kind of lifestyle for herself. I don't think she really loved him - she loved what he represented. And then, when it didn't fit what she imagined in her head, when he wasn't really interested in living the lifestyle of other many wealthy people in New York; she quickly became disillusioned. Oh no! I have to cook! Are you even serious!!!????!
He could have had anyone. He wasn't looking for a trophy wife. If he had been he would have chosen someone much more beautiful. He loved her.
Empathy and compassion are to be extended to all human beings - rich, poor and everything in between. Some of the unhappiest people I have known in my life are the wealthiest ones.Most particularly those born into it. Because they can never really trust that anyone likes or loves them for themselves.
@@inaschultz1431 Doesn't sound like your ex SIL was very smart. I mean why does a beautiful girl think a much older guy - rich or poor - is marrying her? Because of her excellent personality?!? 🤣 I suppose she married him because of his excellent personality too?!? 🤣
And she got no money when they divorced? That never happens unless you are dumb enough to sign a prenup that says you won't get anything.
Carolyn Besette didn't come from wealth so if she was rude you can't blame being wealthy for that.
Power is a huge aphrodisiac for the women in the Kennedy circles. I’m with you, I can’t imagine their looks were the draw. John was Bouvier beautiful, none of the Kennedy physical traits seemed obvious. You can tell Caroline is a Kennedy with one look.
Yes, I always felt so sad that it wasn't reverse. Jon Jon got the looks!
"Bouvier Beautiful" - the new novel from Valerie Brooks. On sale at fine booksellers everywhere.
The Kennedys give me the creeps!
Me too. Years ago my cousin told me about Joseph Kennedy.
What gives me the creeps are people who lap up whatever is put in a book as the gospel truth
@@Marie-mo9id There are great people in that family and not so great. Just like any family.
I remember my 8 year old self watching the funeral of JFK with my father. He said “you’re watching history”. But he wasn’t at all impressed with the Kennedys & thought Kennedy wasn’t a very good president.
@@joanholg15 My much older cousin told me about Joseph Kennedy about 25 years ago. Like father, like son. I am older than you and remember Kennedy well and the Cuba crisis. That was enough to make him popular. I was too young to be interested in politics at that time.
This book is so interesting; I am sorry the author never mentions Mary Pinchot Meyer, one of JFK’s last lovers who was murdered execution style one year after his assassination in broad daylight in a Washington DC park. That might be a book in itself.
Wow! I’ve never heard of that before
🤯 whaaaat?!?!!!
Yes! That is a book that needs to be written.
She kept a diary that vanished the day she was killed. Insiders believed the cia head of counterintelligence burned it in a hospital incinerator.
There is a book: Mary's Mosaic, by Peter Janney. His father, like Mary's husband, worked for the CIA, and he thinks his father might have ordered the hit.
Caroline Kennedy NEVER liked Carolyn. At the wedding Caroline Kennedy was FURIOUS that Carolyn was very late coming down the aisle. All they had in the chapel was candle light (no electricity).
And a lot of sweating
I'm happy you are reviewing this book. I had written asking if you would. It's eye opening for me. I do want to say that I attended a Brown University Alumni weekend and there were several professors there who had John Jr. in classes. Without exception every one of them said what a sweet, ordinary good fellow he was. All charm. It was a well honed facade .
This sounds like two broken people-albeit good looking people. Life is about so much more than looks or image, but that seems to be all they had. What a shallow, empty existence. And then you put them together..BOOM!
I always thought the older Kennedy's looked like they had horse teeth. 😅
I’m glad that I’m not the only one who thinks the same thing as you.
Horse teeth! I totally agree!
a lot of them do
For another interesting perspective on JFK Jr. & Carolyn Bessette and their relationship, I’d recommend _What Remains_ by Carole Radziwill, the widow of John Jr.’s cousin and close friend, Anthony Radziwill. She and Anthony saw a great deal of Carolyn and John, and my recollection is that in her book - it’s been several years since I read it - Carole R. speaks fondly of both of them and presents a friendlier view of their relationship than Maureen Callahan does. (Fwiw, I find it hard to like either of them.) The contrast is a real head-scratcher. Carole and Anthony were the first members of the family to learn of the disappearance of the plane John was piloting.
"What demonic pull these people had". You hit the nail on the head.
The problem with understanding anything the Kennedy's do, is that they aren't "normal." They are the 1 percent, and you and I and everyone else here in the comments, have never lived that life. Unaliving people, accidents, affairs, substance usage etc are all things that are inconveniences , throw some money at it, and it all goes away. If any of us did half of that stuff we'd be behind bars and have monitors on our ankles when/IF we got out.
@RayneSaltair I know, right? Yet some of them served famously in public office and turned on that "Kennedy charm". I'm still baffled by RFK, Jr.'s decade-long secret he held about his encounter with a dead baby bear...WTF!
👍👍👍
I would NEVER have gotten on board that plane. Not for all the tea in China. Carolyn was a fool for putting up with all his pre-wedding shenanigans, and then marrying him. As far as picking up after him.....uh, that's a solid NO.
@kpax2066 My Mom had a co-worker who always used the phrase "Lincoln freed the slaves honey". It's been years since I thought about that, but I admit it came to mind when I heard this passage of the book - LOL!
Not for all the tea in China- I have heard this exact statement twice today… and I’ve never ever heard it before in my whole life-wow- that’s crazy. I understand what you mean, there’s no way I would have gotten on that plane. Ever- he was extremely reckless and immature.
Maybe it is a sign to buy a lottery ticket!!
@@elineman7The dirty shower and picking up wet towels would have been red flags. So she must have married him for money and security.
She had visions of being a First Lady in her head. It was all about status just like it was for Jackie.
Carolyn was a gold digger with psychotic tendencies and John was a rich lawless playboy, so they were a match made in hell.
Birds of a feather belong together.
A waste of the public's goodwill, access to enormous resources, endless opportunities, and on and on.
In my mind, neither (nor both as a pair) left much (if any) of a good legacy.
She sounds like & gives me M Markle vibes.
@@AuntClara0911 I had that same thought!
Carolyn looked unhappy & once she dyed her hair blonde looked icky!
Carolyn seemed so desperate to get the prize! Poor woman. She also seemed fake, cold, and dull as a person to me.
I find her a creepy nightmare.
@@Roxy0405 I wonder whom she reminds me of?
She didn’t deserve any sympathy. She was just as terrible as he was. They deserved each other.
I think it’s really sad when a person can’t be true to self. Unconditional love is the only way. Relationships are hard enough to keep oneself under control, it’s much harder when you’re trying to control someone else. We all are just trying to do the best we can-Yes, she seemed very desperate.
Yes! She always struck me as dull! Including her fashion sensibility.
“They don’t all look like JFK Jr” ha great point!
My husband and I were both in grade 4 when JFK was shot in 1963. Then Dr King And Robert Kennedy. It’s hard to explain to those who didn’t experience it. Life stood still in the days between JFK passing and the funeral. Jackie Kennedy handled those days like a play and the whole thing was staged and the world was mesmerized . Everyone in my school walked solemnly into our school gym and watched it on a tiny black and white tv. At home we watched everything and the funeral parade with JFK jr saluting is seared in our minds. Then in the coming days Jackie was interviewed for days and called his presidency Camelot. The press bought it right up and fed this beautiful line to everyone.
The next time I remember time stopping while we watched was 911 and the days that followed as we hoped for answers and more survivors.
The facade famous put out for us to see has become a joke. Thank you for doing this book.
The movie, JACKIE, is a good one to see. Made in 2016.
We are the same age. I also lived thru the Detroit riots, the DC sniper and was working right across route 1 from the pentagon on 9-11. I think our age group all has had a lifetime of post traumatic disorders.
I was in grade 4 also when our class was informed...
I was only 7 when JFK was shot, but I do remember the reactions of people close to me. I watched the funeral with my mother.
I think some of our generation's resilience comes from the nearly nonstop upheavals that have happened in our lifetimes...whether we were really paying attention or not.
i was in junior high ( now called middle school-grades 6 to 8 ) when the news broke about jfk,,,,,i was in the girls locker room and we all started crying.....there was such high hopes for jfk"s presdencey.....the days following was like everyone was in shock.the tv played the scene of his death over and over. and there was jackie in her pink jacket and skirt, covered in blood. standing beside the new presdent lyndon johnson still in her blood soaked clothing... being sworn into office on a plane.....the funeral was very touching as jackie stood there totally in black with a black veil over her pill hat and holding the hands of her 2 small children, carolynn and john-john.....for weeks newspapers cover the story, time-life magazine had pictures and my mom cutting out everything for a scrape book. it was bizzare.
Holy cow! Im of their generation and I always wondered why Carolyne’s mother didn’t want her to marry him. John Jr was a player and he once dumped Carolyn to get back together with Darryl Hannah.
The Kennedys were very charismatic. I don’t even think any of them were that good looking, but their personalities were very charismatic and could draw you in. Add to that the fact that the media was saying how great they were and then you just start believing it.
Money and Power are the aphrodisiac. Joe Kennedy had his mistress, Gloria Swanson, travel across the Atlantic with his wife, Rose, on the same voyage and each knew the other was there. Who would countenance that?
RFK jr is pretty hot
@@kcirtapelyk6060IMO-no. J, Jr. is the only one with any looks. His father was not handsome.
@@DebbiSmithDCHave you seen RFK jr shirtless? He’s “daddy” material😉
@@angierucinski5694He also brought Gloria home to their house and she had dinner with Joe, Rose and all the children. Because he could. 😡
I read Carolyn was increasingly irked that JFK Jr. had met her mother, Ann Messina Freeman, but she had not met Jackie Kennedy Onassis. After meeting JFK Jr, Ann was concerned for Carolyn because JFK Jr. was charming but didn't appear to be a grounded person - not a good match for her Carolyn. Ann was pleased when the couple broke up in 1994, and sent Carolyn a note and newspaper clipping - of JFK Jr and Daryl Hannah reuniting - telling her to get on with her life. JFK Jr. later regretted not introducing Jackie to Carolyn, calling it “one of his main regrets". In 2001, Ann reportedly received millions in a wrongful-death settlement against JFK Jr. estate - who was fully to blame for the crash.
@@isobeloconnell9385 👍🙏
Love your stuff, Cheere Denise. A wise person once told me, “Anyone who marries for money EARNS it.”
I feel the utmost sorrow for Carolyn and Lauren's mother. She lost 2 daughters, I don't know if I could survive that.
And your source material?
@@dolinaj1 Vanity Fair, New York Post after their deaths, and more recently Carole Radziwell (Cousin Antony's widow's) previous interview on Larry King Live. She was close to both John and Carolyn.
This is blowing my mind!!! I had no idea that Caroline or John were like this!! It's very similar to Meggy and Harry with the manipulation marrying the idiocy.
I remember reading a book written by Princess Diana about how she wanted William to be more like JFK Jr . And not to Royal and stuffy.
@@francescaderimini2931She basically wanted William to be the younger male version of herself.
My thoughts exactly, lots of similarities.
@@kcirtapelyk6060 Touché
@@francescaderimini2931Diana never wrote a book.
Damn, John was a spoiled brat with a fierce death wish... and he didn't mind taking someone else with him.
I didn't realize that Carolyn had never met Jackie.
take it from someone who knows - ( I had a very similar experience) John loved his mom and I seriously doubt there was going to be a woman that was she was going to approve of . Somewhere deep down - probably unspoken - he knew that and probably cherry picked the positive attributes that she would have approved of and convince yourself that she would have . It ends up exactly like it sounds .
I am so glad that I found your book reviews/reads. Your delivery is amazing....your voice has a great intonation and clarity. And you're so wryly funny. I think you are amazing. So I only point this out to clarify, not pick. But I believe Carolyn's last name Bessette is buh-SET with the stress very much on the second syllable. Looking forward to your covering more books and even expanding what you react to.
It is. It's accentuated in the last syllable, like "upset". I hope she corrects it.
@@purpurina5663 Yes, agrees. And that is what I said. There are two syllables and the stress, is as I indicated, on the second. I was just writing it out phonetically using the all caps to show the stress. I wanted to point this out in a helpful way because she is a really, really good commentator......Cheer Denise, you are awesome!.....I mean her overall delivery and side comments are just amazing. Some people get so harsh and nitpicky with youtubers who provide really good content.
The concept that the way to make yourself attractive to someone is to treat them badly is so foreign to me. I can’t imagine doing such a thing to anyone. I’ve always tried to follow the Golden Rule.
Fully agree. I am baffled by this idea. If people treat me badly, I accept that this is how they are in the world, and devote no further energy over there. Who has the time and patience for such juvenile games?
I agree. However, prior to my marriage, I dated a few men who had model good looks, were charming, and who were accustomed to having women melt in their very presence. I was reasonably attractive, but not gorgeous, and I was confident that I possess qualities that should be more highly valued than physical beauty. Therefore, I always disdained woman who fawned over men like that, so whenever I met these guys (some of whom had other, more impressive qualities than their looks), I was anything but admiring. One might say I treated them with some level of disdain, but I have to say that this tended to work like an aphrodisiac with men accustomed to having women fall all over them.
Agree totally. Im 51 now, when i was in my 20s in NYC the idea of "negging" was just starting. Men would say a weird backwards compliment and if you bit that was their signal that you would accept any terrible behavior. I didnt respond to it, not that i have some amazing sense of self, quite the opposite. I just get the ick immediately.
Dear lord, she seems as superficial as he does
I have only two things to offer about Carolyn and John. One was that his sister Caroline was sneeringly disrespectful about Carolyn’s stiletto shoe choice for the wedding. It was all sand, after all.
The other is that she went about making herself to some sort of icon, determined to outdo Jackie, who was no saint herself.
The whole thing was so over the top.
Like it’s all really a lie they expect the hoi polloi to believe.
And to what end?
JFK Jr. was thoroughly obnoxious, good looks be damned.
The media always fawned over him saying how down to earth he was. It was kind of strange to read that the author said that he was entitled and spoiled but makes sense.
As were most of the Kennedy men!
@@chaswrhe was down to earth but this author has an Agenda of lies and exaggerated claims! The people who really knew John tell a completely different story!
@@athenaf8278- I didn’t really think she made JFK Jr., look horrible. He was reckless and not very bright, but, he wasn’t abusive to women in my opinion. The two women she uses to try and prove that point are bad examples. They both wanted him and were willing to engage in his reckless acts in order to appease him. I have zero sympathy for them.
I can’t really see how Carolyn garnered the attention she received except for who she married. She wanted the name, the fame and the money for sure according to those in the know. She quit her job, hid out in their condo, took drugs and looked miserable in the majority of random photos. Her mother was against the marriage and announced it at dinner the night before the wedding. To me, she was just looking for a wealthy man as some women do. She was tall with a nice figure but her facial features were large with pale eyes. She wore her uniform black at gala events and her casual clothes were typical of New York women at that time. John was smitten but had they lived, they would probably have divorced years ago and she would have appeared merely as a footnote in his life. 🤔
Bessette: emphasis on the second syllable. Think BesSET. Enjoy your channel.
Excellent
Carolyn was no angel.. She was addicted to coke and had took off right after their wedding to spend 2 weeks with her ex because she wasn't happy.. The one situation that really caused an issue was how she took a tantrum because her wedding gown didn't fit like a glove and she forced their guests to wait in that stifling hot church for over 2 hours..John's sister did not like her and this came straight from her best friend's mouth on national TV..She felt like she knew what she was getting into and that the constant whining about the Pap's trying to take her picture was just old..John had actually moved out and was living in a hotel when the crash happened..He didn't like the nonstop coke fueled partiies so he was giving her what she wanted..The afternoon of the crash had Carolyn holding their departure time up due to shopping and manicures..I was never impressed with either John or Carolyn however,I have read this book and it is very one sided with mainly bashing the Kennedy men while overlooking all of the additions and cheating that the women brought into their relationships..I hate one sided scenarios because as we all know it takes two to tango..I live in the south and I know how stifling hot it gets and to disregard her guest because her gown that fit like a glove was the hold up sorry I would have been walking back to the big house seeing red all the way..🤬
I agree with you.
@judyholiday1794 I hate sticky, humid weather, and I would have been pretty grumpy waiting over an hour for the bride to arrive. I never understood why she was having trouble getting into the tight-fitted dress. Didn't she try it on for fittings beforehand? I thought, maybe it was the heat and humidity swelling up her body, but didn't she have air conditioning at the inn where all the wedding guests stayed? Maybe not...the church was not air conditioned and had to be lit with candlelight. It would have been better to have an early spring wedding. The South can get pretty clammy in the middle of summer!
I agree that Carolyn had her demons, but as pilot of that plane, it was John’s responsibility to use good judgment and make good decisions. He was reckless to fly that plane. When he saw how dark it had gotten, he should have cancelled their plans. He also flew recklessly, by tuning his radio to the wrong frequency, almost crashing into another plane, and flying over the ocean when he had no instrument training. He also refused his flight instructors offer to copilot with him.
@@lisalivingston6473I read there were problems with her high heeled shoes in the sand as well. No air conditioner. It was raw and authentic!
@@francescaderimini2931 I would not have been a happy camper waiting in that heat for an hour for the wedding to begin. I bet a nice cool cocktail tasted good afterwards - LOL!
I could never have married someone as “thick as mince” as we say in Northern England, no matter how pleasing on the eye. I feel bad saying that about someone now deceased but fame has a habit of ruining peoples characters.
Exactly! If there is nothing in their heads, I lost interest very quickly … even if the packaging is pleasing to the eye! He was deffo as thick as mince. Irish mince! 🇬🇧
For the long haul, you need someone with wit, smarts and a sense of humor. Looks wear thin, no matter how incredible, if that's all there is.
But he wasn't thick, at all
Don’t believe all you read! This author has an Agenda!
Same. It's too tiring, having to carry the conversation 24/7. And it gets lonely really quickly, that you're getting nothing back.
This wasn't a marriage. It was codependency. Yuk.
I had forgotten about all the tabloid drama surrounding their relationship; I was in my 20s for most of the 90s and had my own drama going on. Looking back on it from y 50s now, they both seem toxic.
LOL! Seriously! These people are dead. Have been for a long time. And anyone who believes that this book is truly factual, will believe anything printed.
When you join the dots about JFK jnrs behaviour it all makes sense when you realise he had ADHD, the messy forgetfulness, they are very hard people to live with, probably why he trouble passing exams, and poor business skills, the risk taking is all about getting the dopamine hit, its all part of the impulsive nature of ADHD
That is no secret - John was always "hype-active", which is what they used to call ADHD. There were articles about it when he was a child. Carolyn was no assets to him.
The Kennedys were idolised here in Ireland. My gran had a framed picture of JFK right beside one of the pope.
At school, the nun constantly harped on about the wonderful Kennedys.
It's great to hear the truth about them.
Are you sure its all the truth?
@@carolkahn8596 No, I'm not sure, but some of it is true. I never rely on information from one source.
It is fascinating. I remember quite well when George debuted. I remember the Sexiest Man Alive cover (and he sure was). I remember the wedding and I remember sitting up all night with my mother the night they lost track of the plane. My mom was sobbing. She had bought into the Camelot thing hook, line and sinker. For me, it was more superficial. Magazine covers and such, so it's amazing to hear about what he was really like. And Carolyn too.
I remember it all too well. I sat by the television hoping and praying they would find him alive. He was every ones fantasy man. 🌷
So this writer says that Carolyn knew everything: John had not enough hours logged, not trained to fly instruments, it was too late. She was scared, still went ahead, boarded the plane not just alone, but took her sister with her, believing that anything could happen. But the author doesn't say that Carolyn went for shopping last minute to get her perfect little dress, making John to wait for two hours. That was the reason they took off that late. Two hours earlier they could have arrived at day light without him needing to rely on instrument in the maze.
Thank you….the writer is a gossip not an historian..
That’s not what her assistant said in her recent interview.
@emmacsak I also understand that Friday rush-hour traffic is always bad in NYC, so that was part of the reason for the delay. I imagine JFK, Jr. had to arrive early to do a pre-flight check of the plane and was required to file a flight plan, but there seems to be some inconsistency in that story. Knowing what an inexperienced pilot he was, I never would have flown with him at dusk yet alone allow my sister to board that plane. We all make bad decisions in our life, but sadly this was the ultimate one.
She was late but so was her sis, who came as the sun really set.
Wow, the devil is indeed in the details! Thanks for sharing!
Calling John stupid and completely unathletc i feel very harsh Genetics play big role.Jfk had Addisons disease big stomach issues lots of physical problems 2 or 3 of their children stillborn or died i believe JFK jr also had ADHD or another learning disability ? Read that. Clearly hes not a saint but he also is human with human limitations
Also meant the author saying or quoting so not you
Great book, great commentary. You always bring us the goods. Thank you! I was thrilled to see another video today. 🥰
Oh, come on. John was not dumb. He earned a Juris Doctor degree in law and passed the NY bar exam. Something that is not easy to do.
On his 3rd time.
@@RoseSharon7777 In New York and especially in California the state bar exam is harder to pass than any exam be it in college or any graduate degree, including medicine. It's not a high school pop quiz.
@@RoseSharon7777Mommy O pulled some strings!
He flew out of a small airport near me that day. I remember interviews with other Pilots that day, who had told him not to flay that day.
I remember that fight being all over the news and was shocked how physical it got. The way they both engaged, it seemed sort of like their standard operation and not the first time. Maybe they were both chasing an image, but conflict arose when they saw reality was quite different. It is amazing the warning signs people just ignore.
It seems like they choose their parents as spouses: John the 2.0 version of Jackie and Carolyn choose a man with the “arrogance” of her father.
Have been waiting for chapter 2, first time that I tuned in to your readings thought it would be something to listen to while doing things around the house, next time I looked at the clock it was 4am ! Now I limit myself with a timer ! Love your presentation
Not making excuses for John's behavior, but Carolyn was a drug addict and suffered from massive insecurities.
This is absolutely not true & ridiculous.
Not sure about the drug addiction but insecurity sure especially around him.
@@jomarro9935 cocain can definitely cause feelings of insecurity. Yes, she was a cocain user.
@jomarro9935 yes she was a cocain addict. Many articles written after their death stated that fact. They were never disputed, check the facts.
@@nancybarker1477 Disputed constantly. Extremely incorrect. Those who knew her know it was utterly & completely false. Read the heavily researched book about Carolyn written by Elizabeth Beller, which includes interviews of many people who spent years with Carolyn, both personally & professionally. Don’t spread false info you’ve read in “articles”. Peace 💛
I had heard that she told a salesperson at the store she bought the dress from that she did not want to go. (onthe plane)
I heard the same Rumor 😢
My mother never liked Jackie Kennedy or Princess Diana and she was a good judge of character. She could see beyond the facade.
Diana was a committed humanitarian. I wouldnt put her in a category with Jackie.
Princess Diana was amazing after leaving her husband! We all loved her but too bad she didn’t have a non-alcoholic driver!
They say that John Jr and princess Diana were the two international idiots.
I can’t believe the wedding story! I remember seeing photos of the candlelight tiny church and thinking how beautiful. Guess she had nothing to do with it
It’s fun getting your reaction. When I was done with this book I felt disgusted with most every person. It’s hard to feel sorry for any of the 3 that went down in that plane. I feel if Caroline had said hell no they would all be alive today.
Some women, especially then , were brought up to marry rich, powerful men. That was the goal, even if it meant the spending the rest of their lives looking the other way while their husbands cheated on and disrespected them
@@georgiabelle5176 And still are. New York and LA are full of young women like her who hope to land a rich and/or famous husband.
My Mother used to say "the hardest way to make money is to marry it" and she was right.
@@elizabethhopkins7582lol
Carolyn is not to be pitied or seen as a victim. She chose him for the prize.
These two were toxic together. They didn't need to be together.
They HAD to fly that night, Uncle Teddy offered to drive.
I'm not a Kennedy fan, but Jackie was more than someone who dressed well. She led the impeccable restoration of the White House (the iconic Zuber papier peinte in the Diplomatic Reception Room was her doing). She was a huge proponent of historic preservation and the arts. And she was fluent in French, Italian and Spanish, and also spoke some German. She also worked as a photographer and book editor.
I guess Carolyn’s public behavior wasn’t trashy becuzzzzz? She had money…. If she was broke though… edit: and his behavior!
She was crazy, as was he
Enjoying this one Cheere. Thank you!
That brawling is so trashy and undignified. Like a couple after a boozy Irish wake, totally trolleyed.
There were/are many much better looking men than any of the Kennedies, including JFK and John Jr, in my opinion. As for Jackie: she was a very unusual/odd looking woman and downright plain. I think the laudation of this family is ridiculous ... and typically American.
They didn’t have anything else at the time.
The press loved the Kennedys and created them as celebrities. Nothing special.
The press loved the Kennedys and created them as celebrities. Nothing special.
The tabloids helped create the intrigue. Stories and pictures form images far from the reality and of course the depicted persons love being shown in that glamorous unreachable light. Et voilá you have all these personalities who make the everyday person dream of that fairytale world . The fact that they’re mostly quite mediocre human beings is carefully curated and hidden in order to sell the tabloids.
Low lifes with money. Jackie with onassis for money even after his death bothering Christina for money.
@@natashantz5151 Thank you for mentioning this great CRIME! Jackie sent Teddy to negotiate for more money knowing the man was broken after the death of his son.
@@francescaderimini2931 these pornographers are all alike. Sick shit
@@francescaderimini2931 He may have been broken but he wasn't broke and he screwed her over financially
As low and uncivilized she only married this hideous old old man for security. Gore Vidal didnt think too much of the player either
To Ari she was a part of his collection. To Jackie, Ari was her banker. And Maria Callas, who had been with him for years was put aside so Jackie could marry the Greek Tycoon. Very complicated relationships with the wealthy. All of the players were not nice people. Ari’s daughter, Christina, was a poor little rich girl and died too young. Very tabloid fodder.
I did live in that era but I never got it either. I suppose the old adage "birds of a feather flock together" holds true.
This is the family that gave an award to Harry and Meghan for “the work against the racist royal family”.
RFK’s family.
The Kennedy family just knows how to be mean then smile in your face 😊
the elder kennedys hated the british because of britai of the irish in the previous centuryns treatment
These people are messed up. As a psychologist in training… I don’t even know where to start 🤔 narcissistic tendencies are pretty impervious to treatment.
Personally, I don’t get the attraction to JFKjr at all. Not my type 😣
I grew up in Hyannis. The Kennedy kids were insufferable. The boys.
I was FOM at the Hyannis Resort that Ted used as his local headquarters in 1980. I put my foot down. You set up your own communication desk. Do not mess with me.
Mary Jo had only been dead 11 years and Ted was running for President.
@@bradleybenoit5649 sounds like entitlement is a family thing
In person he was almost unbelievably handsome, charming, funny, fun, and a genuinely nice guy. I know NARCS up close and personal and he wasn't one. I think that maybe she was. She was an odd one that's for sure. He was crazy about her. I don't think she was really ever in love with him.
Please would you consider reading “ Once Upon A Time” by Elizabeth Beller? It gives a whole different view of Carolyn. This authoress doesnt like Carolyn but she sure likes Jackie. I think she got that wrong.
Thank you. I've just ordered the Elizabeth Beller book after you mentioned it.
@@annebradley1834most welcome. It paints a totally different picture of Carolyn. As does the book written by Carole Radziwill.
Just finished the audio version of that book. I feel that book portrayed her in a more sympathetic light, especially with quotes from her friends about how Carolyn was as a person
@@AspieRN1975 yes. I think this writer read too many tabloids stories about Carolyn instead of talking to the people who were her friends. According to them she was a kind, thoughtful person that children always took to. She was super close to all her family .
Words from his closest friends “self deprecating,sensitive, clumsy, forgetful, generous, insightful, quiet in crowds, sweet natured, exuded the life of a man who did not take himself seriously, inspiring, always optimistic about the future, genuine, loving and kind nature, sensitive, carried his fame with natural ease. A curious hesitancy and willingness to laugh at himself…”
😅😅😅 o my word, FINALLY someone else who didnt think much of the Kennedy's 'glamour'.
I never thought they were anywhere near good-looking.
And Jackie, is she not just plain weird looking?
I'm no oil painting but i dont get called beautiful. In no way was she even remotely good looking. Always mystified me.
I thought Jackie was weird looking too and that childish breathy voice........ .🙄
Same
Agree. I think she was one of those people who sell the myth so well, you overlook reality. But rather than her looks (which can be appealing to some), I always felt her naïveté and dignity were feigned. She rubs me the wrong way.
It’s funny to me how they describe him as charismatic. My theory is, anybody that’s described as being ✨charismatic✨is either a complete psycho, a serial cheater, or they’re going to murder you in your sleep.
He was charismatic I met him on several occasions and he was both handsome and exuded charisma, much more so than in photographs!
Charisma is one of the hallmarks of narcissism.
Sounds like my ex-husband.
@SisterCrystal030@@TheDriftwoodlover not necessarily. JFK, Jr. was wholeheartedly involved in social issues such as poverty and homelessness and involved in charities that did meaningful work in those areas. To dismiss him as a narcissist (or evil charismatic) based on this author’s scurrilous accounts of his character is to be naive about her Agenda. His closest friends, who knew him best & who are willing to go on the record, have a totally different account and description of his character. I choose to believe them and my personal experience of him rather than this gossip rag which calls itself a so called “fact checked” biography!
Her numerous ERRORS throughout this book give truth to many of the lies recounted in this “tell all” mess of erroneous jumbled fact and fiction!
Carolyn followed "The Rules" book, clearly.
Like meghan
Because it works!
16:29 The underwear model is ridiculous. He was hotter than her and acting like he wasn’t. Lmao god damn😂
He wrote a book about their relationship didn't he? It seems like everyone who ever knew or was linked to JFK Jr. cashed in and wrote one.
Again, I think the author has been very harsh here and I think you’re buying into it wholesale. If you read Carole Radziwell’s book, “What Remains,” you get a somewhat different picture. Carole presents the faults and drug use, but she also presents a couple that loved one another but struggling to determine what was next for them. He wanted children, she was aghast at bringing them into a world where they couldn’t step outside the door of their home without flashbulbs going off. She was thrown by the press attention and he had trouble understanding because it had always been a part of his life. But they were in counseling because they did love one another and wanted to make it work. They were also both struggling with the impending death of is cousin, Anthony, and were very caught up in his treatment. Again, I feel the author is really emphasizing the worst, without presenting the best or at least the mitigating circumstances. I’m not trying to say JFK Jr. was an Angel…he was not. But he wasn’t as dumb and uncaring as he is being portrayed in this book.
Finally, yes I read that book as well and this depiction of both of them is infuriating. This book so far reads like a tacky tabloid. Geesh, it’s obvious she had little to none sources from someone that knew them. And any legitimate friend wouldn’t contribute to this trash😢story. It’s a tabloid, the trashier the better. Who cares if you ruin someone’s legacy. They’re cockroaches.
You make excellent points. I saw an interview with the author and could feel the hatred towards the men coming through the screen. Very biased writer, although I know the men were flawed. But aren’t we all to differing extent?
Agree- I think he was obviously embarrassed he was having trouble passing the bar,, he was living other’s expectations and his secretary of many years says he was a nice guy too
A good book to read is The Other Man. The model Michael Bergin had a relationship with Caroline Bessett. She went back & forth with JFK Jr. and Michael.
You are my new hero!
I don’t get the obsession with Jackie either!
Kennedy mystique? Nope!
Had to live through it to understand it…
Especially the fawning over her beauty. 🤔 I was 8 in 1963 so had a front row seat to all of the family’s coverage in the media.
An old boyfriend of hers said they had resumed their affair before she died. Who knows? Why did she finally show up shortly before dark.
Any lawsuits yet? I'm betting the Kennedys won't touch it.
I don't get it either; I think that it is an East Coast thing to find the Kennedy family attractive.
I am certain that Meghan Markle modelled herself on Carolyn…. Copied her style of clothing , hair etc. Failed miserably!
I’m just waiting for her to go blonde 😅
@@nicoletteralfe733 lmbo
@@nicoletteralfe733😂😂😂
Stop the fricking jealousy. Max Mara clothing utilizes almost exclusively neutrals. Did he copy Carolyn Bessette? Her style has changed as she has gotten older obviously.
@@1957esYou get to express your opinion but no one else does. No. That's not how it works on a public platform
I’ve read several books that are more balanced- John was extremely ADHD off the charts which can be infuriating to live with. He forgets about meetings, always late, impulsive, hyperactive and that makes a partner crazy after awhile.. this author has no idea that this disorder it is real and has nothing to do with character.
I agree. A friend went to Brown with him and he would lose his keys (buried them in the dirt when they went skiing.....then it snowed.) Add money and the pressure and there you go. I miss those days in NYC.
Thank you…this book is faulty in many ways.
ADHD, as an excuse, can only get one so far. By adulthood, one can only hope some compensatory mechanisms are in place. The total disregard for safety, selfishness, and obnoxious behavior just can't be blamed on ADHD.
@@lynne3051
I agree. I'm ADHD & would never even consider putting anyone else in danger to satisfy my own whims. Recklessness to JFK Jr's extent suggests other problems were in play.
The portrayal of John is mean spirited and inaccurate! The author has an Agenda and I don’t respect her,
Caroline.....l think was BPD.
In growing up Jackie kept her children away from their cousins. She didn't want them to be like them ? Or
Caroline sounds a lot like Megan Markle...
Do really think that John would not hire someone to keep a tidy apartment for him? I doubt that he wouldn’t have a maid.
Women like this want to be men and they want men to be women. They wonder why no man wants them and why, if they manage to marry, he leaves soon.
I simply can’t wait for next Ep. I’m Fully invested. My house should be almost empty for next one. Company gone..
@CheereDenise I am loving your review of this book and your very balanced perspective on the "American Royalty" aka the Kennedy family. I think the decades old moniker is extremely overrated and always have felt this way and it's nothing to do with my personal politics. I do wish more people would research who exactly it is they idolize. I would absolutely love to hear your opinions and insight on how the Kennedy's made their money from their early days--so many people are unaware of those facts. Looking so forward to the next chapter, and thank you.
JFK Jr. had over 300 hours logged, and about 36 in the Saratoga, half of which was solo. It's not like he was a newly minted VFR pilot, his CFI thought he was an "excellent" pilot.
Didn't they have a pilot (his instructor)scheduled to fly them and he didn't show at the last minute? There was a LOT weird about this accident. I read that anyhow.
John declined to let him come even though the guy was there and wanted to help.
@@cheeredeniseJohn was a selfish git! No way would I have stepped on that plane.
@@MizzTH-GEgo, I think.
Cheere, I agree w/you about the idolization of Jackie Kennedy. Besides being young & knowing how to dress(she was educated in this & her environment was how to dress & look…to get a man). I think 1 issue that endeared her to Americans is she restored the White House. Even though I know she had an army of experts to guide & help her, she did do “something “ as a 1st Lady. And she did help save a lot of our antiques & history belonging to the Presidents House.
P.S. The pull of the Kennedy lure was they made Politics the Hollywood for the ugly!🤪
@jenniferlane6720 I agree, Jackie Kennedy poured her heart and soul into returning antiques and historical pieces to the White House during her tenure as First Lady. Everything she procured was either donated or purchased with funds raised...not a taxpayers' dime went into the project. I think she even designed the famous Rose Garden, but Melania Trump made some revisions during her tenure as First Lady.
I wonder if the Kennedy’s could built their dynasty in today’s time with social media and everyone having a camera in their pocket? John Jr had the beginning of the internet but he was still able to put the image he wanted forward.
Same here Cheere, I was young also, I remember their faces on magazines and remember the horrible events around their loss of lives, but I didn’t know anything about their love story- wedding or innermost moments. Great book so far.
Hi there. I was wondering if you could make a video sharing some tips/your experience about having a youtube channel. I'm a teacher, and many of my students have been urging me to start a channel, but I'm nervous about it.
Oh yeah! You should!! If it takes off, it’s nice to have that extra income as a teacher too 😉 so, what I would say is:
1. Pick a subject/topic you can talk about easily, otherwise you won’t come across naturally and as soon as people sense your discomfort, they tune out because it makes them uncomfortable watching. Plus, editing is a nightmare. And if you’re stopping and pausing and fumbling over your words you will stop making videos because it’s a pain to edit them.
2. Don’t copy anyone else’s channel idea; obviously in a broad sense there’s lots of channels doing the same thing (I review books just like a billion other channels) but find a way to put your own spin on your content so that you become a person people can’t find anywhere else.
3. BE YOURSELF!! People don’t care if you’re a little weird…in fact, that’s endearing when someone is unashamedly themselves and doesn’t keep apologizing or trying to be what the audience wants. Half the time the audience doesn’t even know what they want but you just showing up being yourself is SUPER refreshing and that makes people loyal!
4. Even if your videos aren’t great at first KEEP MAKING THEM!! Even if nobody is watching, KEEP MAKING THEM!!! Even when you think you should quit KEEP MAKING THEM! Don’t expect any traction for the first 100 videos. I know…that’s discouraging, but have that mindset so that the slog won’t feel personal. Most people have to put in that much work before they start seeing things pick up.
@@cheeredeniseWow! Thank you for your advice and generous encouragement. I appreciate it 🙏
@@cheeredenise That's interesting to hear, Cheere. I know you started slowly (I'm not even sure why your videos were recommended to me by the UA-cam algorithm), but I find them truly enjoyable, and now look at you at 37.5K subscribers! Congrats!
I've read the book and am now re-reading again. These men are brutal. The women who literally strive to be with them makes me wonder about them. As a woman I would like to support them but I find it difficult.
I love listening to your commentary!!! That's why I tune in. If I didn't want your commentary, I'd just listen to the audio book. Don't listen to the naysayers. And you have a pleasant reading voice. You should be hired by publishers.
The one single photographer stalked JFK Jr and CB. She saw John John sitting in the park with his dog and hid in the public ladies restroom waiting for Bissette to arrive. Yes, it was not good behavior on their part, but, at the same time, I have zero respect for Coqueren (or however you spell it)
JFK Jnr and Snr, Jackie, Carolyn...all narcissists or at least narcissistic...they sound like awful people who were just about themselves...
Here’s the thing, John was much more than what’s in this tacky book. The Robin Hood Foundation, JFK jr served on their board for eight years. He embraced the group's work to help the city's poorest. After his death, for his philanthropic work, an award was renamed in his honor.