Altered States of Consciousness: There’s Nothing Supernatural About It | Jamie Wheal | Big Think
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Altered States of Consciousness: There’s Nothing Supernatural About It | Jamie Wheal
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Altered states of consciousness are documented across cultures, from shamans to Silicon Valley coders. As different as these experiences seem, there are four neurological features they all have in common.Transcendent experiences that were once attributed to gods, angels, muses, or even possession, are now being demystified by neuroscience. Jamie Wheal, Director of Programs at the Flow Genome Project, explains that each culture has unique rituals and narratives when it comes to non-ordinary experiences of consciousness or ‘altered states’, whether that’s mediation, flow state, psychedelic experiences, or others. A farmer in India, a peasant in Mexico, and a coder in Silicon Valley will all have vastly different ways of approaching altered states, and will give vastly different descriptions once they come out the other side - perhaps they saw a vision of Ganesh the elephant God, received a message from the Virgin of Guadalupe, or produced a brilliant line of code while in a Matrix-like binary blur. However, those experiences are more alike than we think. Jamie Wheal and Steven Kotler devised a functional framework so they could compare non-ordinary experiences across cultures. Here, Wheal explains that they identified four common elements of altered states of consciousness, which they coined as STER: selflessness, timelessness, effortlessness and richness. Jamie Wheal and Steven Kotler's book is Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work.
Jamie Wheal and Steven Kotler's book is Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, the Navy SEALs, and Maverick Scientists Are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Jamie Wheal: So when you're considering non-ordinary or altered states one of the first questions is what do they feel like? What's actually going on in those places and spaces? And one of the challenges in coming up with a good and consistent answer, not just for a specific state like meditation or a flow state or a psychedelic the state, is what qualities do they all share? Because each of those communities of practice over decades, centuries and even the millennia have accumulated their own storytelling or content about what the state they access are, what they mean and where you're supposed to go through them. So for instance, if you were a Buddhist meditator you will be instructed in all sorts of stages and levels and progressions of non-ordinary states of consciousness ranging from waking state all the way to white light void to Buddha consciousness, et cetera.
I if I am a peasant farmer in India and I have a non-ordinary state experience I might experience Ganesh, the elephant God in a rice patty. If I'm a peasant in Mexico I might experience the version of Guadalupe Hidalgo. If I'm coder in Silicon Valley I might experience the matrix and code mode, this is ones and zeros streaming all night as I bang away on my keyboard. And the reality is is that underneath those experiences are far more alike than the wrapping paper, the narrator wrapping paper of what people see based on culture, custom and biography. And what we attempted to do was create a functional framework that lets us talk about these things as apples to apples and really see the similarities. And what we realize is that because of the neurobiology there are four qualities that tend to arise pretty consistently regardless of which door you go through to get into these non ordinary states. And they are selflessness, timelessness, effortlessness and richness or STER for short.
And selfishness tends to happen because the areas of our brain, specifically the prefrontal cortex but including additional networks that connect, often turn off or completely light up. Either way they knock out our everyday waking sense of self-consciousness and self-awareness. So we end up momentarily lost our inner voice, lost our inner critic, lost our Jiminy Cricket and we are in a state of not thinking about our thinking.
Read the full transcript at bigthink.com/v...
in 1978 I had an extraordinary experience that at first I thought it was the Holy Spirit. Later I found out about Abraham Maslow and Peak experience, and the Yogic term Samadhi. Now I know that what I experienced was my self in my purest state. It was beyond joy, bliss, high or any term I know of. To discover yourself is the most wonderful thing.
How do you know that it was yourself? I am not being sarcastic, What was it that made you stop on Abraham Maslow?
Throughout human time, people have come to different conclusions, but I'm not sure if the conclusion is based on the individuals personality or reality.
If, after something so profound, we just circle back to the ego, have we experienced anything, or just tripped out on ourselves?
Is it just the classic "logical explanation" of the frightened?
What I experience can be explained by any and every belief. Is a 20th century atheists psychologists view truer than any other?
Can you be experiencing selflessness if you are simply experiencing yourself?
If it is, then the experience is surely a waste of time. Isn't it?
@@Saffron-sugar I wouldn't trade the experience for Bitcoin. I have to add I didn't just look at Maslow's work. I searched Buddhism, Hinduism, and a Christian Monk Thomas Merton. You are welcome to contact me anytime :)You are more than a self. A brick is a brick but also a Cathedral.
Indian mystics and sanatan dharma is greatest way of experiencing human life and all pleasures of world in a ultimate balanced way, wherein, everything is super scientifically structured, placed and paced...
Over last 300-400 years, it has been polluted brutally, but, those Homo sapiens,on the globe, who have discovered that truth, are transformed, and thus enjoy life to fullest..
@@Saffron-sugar When you are in it... you'll know a 100% sure. And in true reality, there's no ''waste of time'', all those meanings are founded upon what?
Had a similar experience on LSD, a moderate dose not too much. I was staring at the sea horizon and listening to the water washing the shore, suddenly I was completely taken away by the horizon. I can't hear anything except the sound of the waves and it felt like it is washing inside my head resonating my sinus. Then the voice inside my head stopped and felt like the sea was telling me stories and showing me places. In computer terms, it felt like the sea downloaded giant files of information inside my head. This continued for an hour or so, this was my peak. The rest of the trip I felt like I embodied a big ball of energy and light, I was guiding my friends to places and telling them stories about life and spirituality and, themselves. I felt like a natural Shaman of some sort.
The day after, friends were like WTF did you just pull off yesterday, it was different.
PS: this was not my first trip ever, I tripped like 30 times with various before this happened. Which's why now I advise people who want psychedelics to try low-moderate doses but go see natural places and meditate which gives you a more full experience of the substance.
Zen already expressed this. A Zen master said we may attain something wonderful but it's nothing special. It's just our true nature.
It's not new information. I don't believe it's being pitched as new. Timothy Leary has been on about this for a long time too.
Altered consciousness has always been there
This fits right in line with my personal flavor of spirituality. Whether you are being chased by a bear, or you just think that you are, your mind and body will still respond the same. With this insight, we can use visualization and a conscious suspension of disbelieve to imagine narratives that are helpful to our mind and body. Just be sure to remember what is imagination and what is not. ;)
STER. Selflessness, timelessness, effortlessness and richness. Yes, I have felt this during meditation a couple of times. It's profound. Would recommend.
this is great science. is one of the reasons why im so interested in neuroscience/psychology. interesting to see the reasons why people believe these things and transcending cultural boundaries
Mario Pendic Really is.
I think one reason why our culture colors the perception of these kinds of experiences is that we try to grapple with them, not quite being able to grasp what is going on, and then our minds fill in the gaps so to speak. And of course it will try to interpret it to fit something familiar.
Yes it is a fascinating area, but he's putting it into such a basic basic model that he's missing out on so much of the content of these modes..
extraterrestrial16 I think that part of his position is that the experiences are simple and basic and that the additional content isn't actually there in the experience itself. That it's something we add through the lens of our culture and the stories we tell ourselves to understand and make sense of the experiences.
That doesn't mean (this is purely my opinion here, not an interpretation of the speaker's intentions) the extra content has to be invalid or meaningless. It can still be powerful and important to an individual. But it still comes from the individual.
+extraterrestrial16 I don't think he's missing out on that content, it's just not the aspect he's discussing in this 5 min clip. I feel certain he has plenty to discuss regarding the experience and content. He's not saying it's MERELY a brain thing, he's just explaining the mechanism that brings these amazing experiences.
+Charlie Evergreen Indeed. You can only condense so much stuff to five minutes. Tom Bilyeu of Impact Theory did a really interesting interview with James Wheal, it's on his youtube channel.
Regardless of the means to reach it or the narratives many groups have been giving it for millennia, such a experience should come into the lives of EVERY HUMAN BEING IN THIS PLANET. It's totally life transformative. I'm a completely different person since I started practicing meditation. Everything becomes clearer, more joyful and you can accomplish so much more with so much less effort when your ego is not in the way.
great explanation, it explains why when i get stuck in something complex i take a little nap and between waking and sleeping i keep dreaming about a solution that seems to me later to be so obvious.
I really love Big Think. It is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels. Very digestible and succint, while wonderfully explaining subjects traditionally considered very difficult or complicated. The charisma of their relaxed confidence is a type of gentle genius devoid of ego that I endeavor to embody one day. There is a beautiful elegance to simplicity.
I would like to hear more from this man. He takes a very reasonable approach to the explanation of the subject which he is talking about.
Agreed
The flow state is not the psychedelic state, and explaining the flow state does not provide a sufficient enough explanation about the psychedelic state. The flow state does not feel remotely as profound as the psychedelic state, nor do we experience visions in the flow state. Jamie Wheal is unfairly conflating the two.
the flow state and psychedelic states are very alike in the ways he said; timeless-ness, non-effort, loss of self-consciousness. I would argue that the flow state doesn't feel spectacular (to most people) because we experience it to varying degrees quite often in our daily lives, and we also have a lot of cultural knowledge of it (in the groove, with it, flow, etc . . .).
But I think the main reason why psychedelic states and flow states seem so different is the way they come on. Flow states are usually reached by having very clear subconscious goals to achieve and you "lose yourself" by focusing all attention on the task at hand. The psychedelic state - if we're talking about the state induced by LSD, psilocin, DMT, etc . . ., at least from my experience, comes on from a feeling of oneness with the universe, and a loss of ego, just as an effect of the drug.
Psychedelic states also seem to be much more spiritual and religious I think, because, generally on psychedelics, I'm not focused on any task and focusing on a task is difficult, therefore the mind wanders towards thinking about my own existence and purpose. In a flow state, I'm still losing ego and "becoming one" but there isn't anything very religious or spiritual about doing everyday, normal activities.
Yep, you weren't paying attention.
You're an android, your positronic brain can't comprehend this :-P
Is it really that hard to extrapolate this definition and apply it to other "states" that result from abusing feeble human senses?
The faster we drop this "spirit and the universe" bullshit the faster we can get to actually exploring the universe itself. Keep up, people.
are astral travels higher or lower states than flow or psychedelics?
And that is exactly how I explain it to people. It can't be "supernatural", if we can do it consistently. And across time and across cultures, we do. Shamanic practice or events are noted in written and oral histories just, as Mr. Wheal said, wrapped in different papers.
Describes very well the Dhyana states I experienced when I practised Buddhist meditation as well as when I used to swim lengths, practise classical guitar and coding(I am a software developer).
All of these experiences were similar and they all felt deeply happy and satisfying.
The last time I was this early I was a zygote.
Is someone walking around in the background with metal? You guys hear that among his speaking?
Love theories that are spoken as statements as if they're facts.
SWIM asked me this: But the real question I would like an answer to is how to come back from that state of mind (after some hardcore deep meditation for example) with something usable in long term? How to come back in this world with an "artifact" from that unconcious world as T. McKenna defined it? And no, I do not aim for short term 'I am enlightened feeling' which dissapears in two days, I aim for permanent change... SWIM also said: I have never used DMT and I do not promote illegal activities, never, just to be clear publicly. ;)
Can someone discuss this with SWIM here, please?
I wish this guy and his research team the best of luck because if he can find ways to bring this down to the public level for daily practice and psychological hygiene it would do a lot of good for our culture's sanity. At the same time I doubt this will be the whole solution of the issue. While I've had plenty of experiences that fall within the scope he describes I've had some that really can't, and a lot of people have had similar experiences that don't reduce well to a physicalist interpretation. That doesn't say anything bad about science necessarily, just that I think we still have a lot to learn about the universe and we may be surprised at just what kind of emergent complexity we're dealing with.
j 'ai vécu dans un état de superconscience pendant 30 ans .je vois que personne ne sait expliquer cet état de conscience ils n 'ont aucune idee ou il l 'ont vécu pendant quelques minutes seulement et ils en ont été marqué !!! si vous saviez vous laisserez tout tomber pour retrouver cet état. car comparé à cela rien au monde ne tient la comparaison !!! je pourrais écrire un livre .cela restera secret.! c 'est trop facile de savoir cela .cela ne vous donnera pas la capacité d 'être cela et puis c 'est inimaginable ni imitable !!!! c 'est le travail de plusieurs vies d'efforts et de sacrifices .il n 'y a pas de cadeaux dans la nature tout est mérité !!!
I've been wondering about this lately
Thanks for posting!
Trying to use intellect to describe spirituality just don't do it for me , it is like taking a dump on all of it ..let go, let go and keep letting go .
The unconscious processing is absolutely amazing but i get problems with the memory side of things. Shifting the data perceived in that state and committing it to memory is difficult, while i can remember the experience, the specifics of the information is hard to recollect in a useful manner. due to the fact that if you try to act on the experience it becomes a conscious experience :-(
very eye opening video thank you
You can make a person believe they are being physically touched by stimulating certain regions in their brain. That doesn't mean that touch doesn't exist. I'm sure by isolating regions that light up when they are stimulated and then activating them can make a person believe they are eating, sleeping, hallucinating or seeing God. However, that doesn't prove that eating, sleeping, or hallucinating doesn't occur in real life. Nor does that, in the same line of logic, prove that there are no genuine experiences of seeing god.
I believe you can come to your own conclusions about what these results signify.
Angel Blake If you're going to include hallucinations as evidence, you have to include *all* hallucinations, which takes you back in a full circle to nothing. No evidence of magic, all the evidence of brains being influenced by natural events.
Angel Blake But we have evidence of touch, sleep, and food. No evidence of any gods.
Virtuoso Joel the saying goes, any suffeciently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. what's the most complex computing device in the universe? point being, if this video, apparently magical abilities may exist, but it's not aliens or Jesus, etc.
No, but it does give something that is ludicrously unlikely a far more grounded, reasonable, and probable explanation. "You COULD be wrong" is kind of a given (hence, "just a theory" - not a unique argument), but it tells us nothing of the practical world. Probability does.
This was very very interesting! Thank you very much
keep your eyes open and question authority of any kind including from the self. welcome to universal consciousness 46&2. see you on the other side or not!
can you pleeeeeaase explain it a little more?
you sound American/British/Australian about 1/3 of the time for each and it's tripping me out.
The Flagged Dragon I wonder if he's doing it on purpose
Wow thank you! i must admit this is the best video ive seen in a long time!
It's big data, but sometimes is mania and bipolar disorder. They are special moments that can generate the idea but you must not experience them too often. After you have the goal set better use you willpower and work step by step.
So my sense of identity is due to a brain region? I guess that means I'm just an hallucination. Oh damn... I'm not real 😖
Ofcourse
Listen Sam Harris on the illusion of self
What if you are an agnostic in America?
I will go with Terence Mckenna and my own when it comes to "Altered States of Consciousness".
Jamie, it sounds like you are describing sense of heightened consciousness the exact way one may describe inspiration. Inspiration causes an individual to feel timeless, limitless, inexplicably driven, and sometimes even body-less. Are the those two things different? If not, what does that mean to you? If so, how?
Do someone know if there are some brain scientist actually investigated if the brain also have a receiver, like having a Wi-Fi?
Of course we have a "speaker, microphone and camera" but do we receive thoughts from other sources that the brain processes?
I suspect neuroscience only look at symptoms like chemistry.
Stephan Söderberg social cognitive neuroscience does. Check for the mirror neurons researches on this. But, there is also a phenomenon called "mirroring oneself on another" which means you see some of your feelings and/or thoughts about yourself as if it was the other person's without acknowledging it. Psychoanalysts has been working on this for decades to help people be aware of this mirroring thing.
Still sounds pretty supernatural to me ❤ great video. The force is strong in this one 😊
I have been saying this for close to 20 years! Very validating.
Julian Walker then you are dumb for believing something unfounded and based on not a shred of evidence for 20 years.
You are talking about scientists; of course they have evidence. Otherwise they wouldn't be talking about the conclusions they are coming to.
actually let me be more clear. more close to 20 years as a dedicated meditation and yoga practitioner, i have been saying that the altered states that spiritual practices create have their basis in the brain -and that some of the differences in description and even content are culturally conditioned. also that religious myths and supernatural beliefs are the product of altered brain states via either psychedelic plants, contemplative practices or various brain conditions like temporal lobe epilepsy, and forms of bipolar disorder, schizotypal disorder, or OCD.
"have their basis in the brain"
Yes..? As everyone knew..?
"temporal lobe epilepsy, and forms of bipolar disorder, schizotypal disorder, or OCD"
Yes..? As everyone knew..? (a very famous case even being Dostoevsky himself)
It has little to do with your meditation or yoga experience.
as everyone knew!? try telling that to the vast majority of people on the planet who believe in the supernatural, religion, psychic powers etc..
and i wasn't implying i knew these things because of my experience with yoga and meditation -more that this made me really curious about finding a naturalistic explanation for the types of powerful altered states i have experienced. in any event i am excited by this video and you are basically just being a bit of prick.
.....i have been taught not to touch fire coz it burns ,that was in my consciounesss but pratically when it really happened when i touch it ,my consciousness about burning changed.
So should i wait for further derivations of being in the conscious or living the reality of things?
If you know the answer ,please dont state it, as it will further complicate my being in conscious !
How very interesting that this have already been mentioned in the teachings of Tao...
And many more millennial schools of thought.
Interesting, so what happened when I meditated for 30 minutes or so and suddenly saw a never-ending hole at the end before I stopped the vision? It was a straight hole until it began doing a spiral motion.
Evil King thats what happened
Evil King follow it next time. spiral out my friend.
This is really cool. It doesn't explain some of my out there experiences though.
Isn't it also possible that these states, this increased "richness," is what allows humans to connect with that deeper, "other" aspect of our reality, if it exists? I loved this presentation; I think it just goes a bit too far in the conclusion. 🙂
Awesome, and awesomely explained.
“Faster & Vaster” 👌🏼😎
the CLANKING in the background was the truth trying to get back in through the" Clever" filter
ego/personality/intelligence/thoughts is not the same as consciousness.
Who else has noticed that angels are just humans with wings😁
Betty Edwards wrote about this 30 to 40 years ago IRT art.
Great video !
It feels amazing 💞
The problem isn't that these are not supernatural!
Actually they are, but in order for mind to understand and translate them to our reality it has to convert them to our already available experience!
like for example you can't talk with a language you don't know! that is exactly what happens when someone in India sees what his culture or teachings says! it's because it's the language that he could understand!
If you look at all these, the physical universe we are in works the same! it's a template so we find a way to interact to reality!
exactly like our desktop on computer! we need an interface to work with reality! otherwise we have to talk to computer directly by typing zero and ones!
that is not very efficient! so universe found a optimized way for us so we could work with underlying reality with human body in the physical world, space and time!
So the altered state of consciousness is that base reality we couln't translate! it's real but we can't understand it without converting and comparing it to our physical experiences!
Awesome video, makes a lot of sense.
yes!!! we are inately born with super-natural abilities!!
Sometimes I wonder if it's better to reach those mental states, consciousness expansion through religion or mindfulness, for example, maybe it's easier for the mind to believe in such things under a religious perspective...
Is someone is walking in the background with a bunch of little basins on him?
and what is the big data? different dimensions? Its great we can understand how it works but what are we finding out when we get to these states..
you have to go there to find out what it means for you. there is no universal answer.
What was that clanking in the background?
I thought it was WoW because I had it tabbed haha
Religion is nothing but a result of how complex the human brain can be.
the one thing the all have in commen is they take focus to find and luck to be given
S.T.E.R... really!?! You missed the acronym R.E.S.T
44 North REST is taken by web APIs, though.
Whats that banging noise though
🤔🤫🤭After listening to HIS OPINION ON "THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING MYSTICAL " I had to relate him to Alister Crowley and how after writing many books on God knows how many Creepy Mystical subjects he finally said something to the effect that these Spirits are just aspects of our own mind. How wrong both of these Brits are. They are JUST GIVING OPINIONS😱🥴😵💫
🤔This guy is trying to explain the transcendence/ Altered State of Con...from a University Clinical point of view, and like good sheep people are buying it like a Fire Sale at Walmart. I don't think I heard him say the KEY word in all of this....SPIRITUAL. He needs to someday get out if his office in England and visit with some Amazon Shaman. 😂🤣😅😆😁
What is all that clanking in the background?
How do I achieve unconscious processing?
The word "supernatural" is meaningless by definition. Because if something exists that means that it's in nature therefore, it's impossible for anything to be supernatural unless it's not real. In which case it's not called supernatural it's just false. Right? So considering that then he's right about saying that there's nothing supernatural about psychedelics or a "mystical" experience. Having said that..there's a lot about the psychedelic experience we don't yet understand. We understand the mechanism somewhat, yes...but just because you can look at brain activity objectively does not mean that you can downplay the subjective experience like it's nothing but connections in our brain. There's so fucking much about reality that we do not understand and probably even more that we don't even know that we don't understand (if that makes sense). I'm all about science and skepticism but after numerous psychedelic trips on several substances I find it hard to say that the 3d universe is all there is. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know and neither does anyone.
if i'll say the same thing people are gonna think i am naive
The title was misleadingly frustrating haha I agree with every way he made his points
NOT TRUE: People in the US have seen Hindu Gods and Egyptian Gods under DMT...
That clanking in the background was distracting.
...and if it manifests in reality? then what?
"Getting high"
Marker 1 thank you
Who is doing plumbing in the background? OR was that an altered state I where in?
If one is seeing images and hearing sounds during "meditation" then the brain is just playing tricks with him.
No because the brain processes information differently on each person, some people process thoughts as images,some have more highlighted sensory processing, personaly I experienced thought as a self monolog. So it makes sense that in an alter state your brain will present the extra information to you in a way that is more approachable to you.
As someone who isn't familiar with any psychedelics, which drugs was he talking about that induce the described symptoms?
Psychedelics cause the described "symptoms," as opposed to stimulants, SSRI's, or depressants. Psychedelics are the class of drugs that have this most profound effect on the very experience and understanding of fundamental aspects of reality, e.g. time, self, and space. Each type of psychedelic changes perspective in different ways.
Visit erowid.org for all your psychoactive research needs.
Why do you keep changing your accent
well explained and made a lot of sense. Another gap filled by science that religion cannot use anymore
Even tho its religion that brought it the attention, even in hindu and buddhist definitions these are pitched as the natural pure state of conciousness
Did he say The Virgin of Guadalupe Hidalgo????? That's like a historical miss match!!! Lol
to play devils advocate, or i guess i would be Gods advocate, these states seem to me like a "Miracle" of nature
Mushin
i highly recommend watching this stoned
"Blah blah blah I'm another hypnotised-by-words reductionist. "
Arrogance gets you no where
Isn't it kind of racist to make an image of a shaman with a caption that considers them to be "natural."
Sadly Pseudoscience stakes a claim is this are far too often
You are not the brain .
There are mountains of evidence that suggest that yes, indeed, you are. Even if that makes you uncomfortable
in fact, there is absolutely zero evidence that consciouss is generated in the brain. only a correlation between functions of awareness and images of neuronal activity is observed. all this appears *inside* consciousness; the brain appears inside consciousness. you can't step outside of consciousness and observe it. there is nothing outside consciousness
There is in fact evidence that what we call "consciousness" originates in the brain, as we can accurately measure the activity in the brain, feed the information into a computer which then interprets the information correctly to show what the person thought about.
There is however literally zero evidence that consciousness originated from anywhere else.
no, thats no evidence that consciousness is GENERATED withing the brain. It only shows a correlational relationship. the brain could also be like a radiostation that receives "information" of consciousness. quantum physics points in this direction
What you call "You" is very different in different situations:
In one situation "You" means the whole body, as in "I took an elevator to the 5th floor."
In another situation, "You" means some small sliver of brain's own activity, as in "I think" or in "I want." It is very difficult to pinpoint what exactly this _I_ corresponds to, but it is some part of what brain does.
In this sense, you are absolutely right: "You" are not your brain.
"...that state happens because this-and-this happens in the brain..."
OR you enter that state and this-and-this happens in your brain?
"...you go into unconscious processing...
BUT unconscious processing happens all the time!
It´s kinda cute, that this is explored scientifically, but they are often a bit shallow. Just a bit. And biased. Just a bit.
I feel ster when I drink alcohol.
what about DXM? ;^/
*codemode*
Science making it so complicated! WTF! - "in the now"!
And for a religion that doesn't have a god, science, must describe the "loss of self" in this way! Science can not say it in any other way!
This.
is this what they call scientific woo woo stuff?
meh
bs
Sounds to me like a scientists way of explaining what all the hippies and woke mfs have been saying for decades...
access to unconciuss proccessing, sounds like a Toltec Nahual
This is so laughably eisogetical and self-refuting. This video is for unserious youtube naturalist. Not thinkers.
Just stick with Jesus. Quit going through crap u don’t understand and inviting in what you don’t know. Trust me, don’t do this.
So all this things start to happened with meditation?
DMT will explain this so much better.
He did a decent job of explaining it though.
As far as a human can articulate into words, yes I agree. However, DMT tuned my mind and honed my soul.
so which drugs should I take to talk to Jesus again? this guy is talking nonsense.