A training method IS NOT a technique - a technical approach (no matter how many "tricks" or techniques you include) DOES NOT teach a system or method for training.
There's an old film, perhaps you have seen it, called "Enter the Dragon" with a famous scene where Sijo Bruce tells a martial arts student that the movements "need emotional content". Okay, GRANTED, maybe you never saw the film, or never really thought about it, But the essence of the dialogue is resoundingly clear and true: art is more than repetition, because an artist is on a journey. And so, the techniques are meant to show you the necessary steps in order to reach your goals, but without a DREAM, a VISION, and guiding principles to keep yourself honest about your progress towards commitments and goals.
Sucks that anyone I've seen working to popularize practical wing chun ends up catching hate both from naysayers and wc hardliners. Keep doing what you're doing Kevin.
Kevin is obviously SUCH a gifted instructor, and his video-tutorials are TOP notch. He, and Fong's association, and Kevin's efforts here in representing the art, are INDESPENSABLE to what we do as martial artists and wing Chun practioners. 🙏 MAD RESPECT, KEVIN 🙏
It’s only because traditional practices let the gulf get so wide between themselves and practicality. Kevin actually makes win chun work which is very threatening to anyone selling win chun as “a thousand year old tradition” because “mine works” is a better sales pitch.
@@ConernicusRex I mean, it's not even true :D. That's something I'd expect from people who do actual traditional/ancient kung fu styles, but wing chun is supposedly "just" 300 years old and I'm personally student in the Ip Man line, which is bit different and is from 20th century. Even Ip Man's direct student Bruce Lee was all about: "it's good, but let's make it even better". In my eyes: "learn the techniques and then make it work" IS the tradition :D. I question anyone who would just have you practice Siu Lim Tao for 10 years and then told you: "now you are kung fu master son". We do controlled sparing since day 1 in the beginner class, forms are used as a warm up/stretch and practicing them is our homework.
I am a 68yr old Martial artist, I started at 16yrs old in Wing Chun under Sifu Joseph Cheng and kept up the style for almost 15 yrs, also studying amateur boxing for a few years afterwards, I then tried WTF TKD up to 3rd dan and have recently started Shotokan passing my first couple of Kyu grades so far. I sincerely believe it is not so much the style as the man and the work put into training that really counts. All styles have something good to offer and i love martial artists like you two who have open minds and learn from each other!
I love that two experts can compare and share openly, thereby learning even more to enrich themselves, and anyone paying attention. You've benefited all of us, thank you.
I think this might actually be kind of a case of circular evolution. Seth's style of karate is American Kenpo (apologies if I'm mistaken on that). Based on his age, I assume he learned in the 1990s (or maybe as early as the late 1980s). That means he's probably got a ton of influence from American kickboxing/full contact karate of the late 1970s and early 1980s -- Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris, etc. Those guys were all training partners of Bruce Lee, who of course was rooted in Wing Chun. I think that's where the trap/backfist combo that Seth shows might be coming from.
According to Seth, the style of kempo he practices isn't based on Parker's system. There's probably connections to Hawaiian kempo (the parent style of Parker's system,) but according to Seth, Parker kind of did his own thing. It's a minor meme on his channel to differentiate "kempo" from "kenpo." That said, the theory of picking it up from American kickboxers who could trace the technique back to Lee still seems solid.
Actually, Wing Chun and Karate shares the same ancestor. Karate came from white crane, and white crane is supposedly from Ng Mui(Wu Mei). Wing Chun is also from Ng Mui. Both white crane and karate has the same kata 三戰(saam jin in Cantonese, san chin in Japanese).
That jab behind the head is actually a very common (and effective) technique in both medieval sword-and-buckler fighting, as well as somewhat later smallsword fencing. Obviously, it's a little easier to do it with a sword.
What exactly do you mean, a zwerhaw over the head from a situation where you use the buckler to control the opponent's weapons? In that case, I agree, it's a super common and useful strike, but if you mean something else I'd like to hear what you mean. I know the arm control to thrust from behind your own back from Meyer's rappier and Angelo's smallsword, but I've never seen a version of it anywhere where you thrust from above your own shoulders. Probably would work just as fine though.
In my wing chun training, and I think this is something that might suit Kevin due to his stature, especially compared to Seth, I was taught a high redirect with a biu (?) sao + a neutral sidestep. Again, due to the height difference, it might feel a bit more natural in this instance than the low redirect against round strikes.
@@joshuaarinze4254 I guess to be more specific, I'm describing an alternative to the technique shown at 10:30. Regardless of what style you would attribute to that series of movements, I think the movements that I described would be a potential viable alternative.
This is a very interesting video! The internet need this more open conversation from practitioners comparing and listening openingly from others! Much respect for both of you!
Great work. I love this collaboration. The entries the two of you explored in the last few minutes are things I teach how instead of transitioning back to strikes in the mid/punching range, I stay inside and use elbows, knees and short/close strikes to overload the opponents senses and to finish the engagement as soon as possible. Awesome work
As a Wing Chun Practitionner, I love watching the subtle difference between different style of Wing Chun or similarities with other martial art, it's pretty fun ^^
Been following Kevin for a little while, it's always surprising when I see people I watch collab out of nowhere, Kevin's vid on the perfect kick made me drill it 200 times on each side on the night of the last new years, slipped the gym owner some cash to let me spend the night, changed the way I kicked, what an awesome guy
I like how Sensei Seth tells us what his "go-to" is, as this reminds those who are not experts the personal nature of martial arts for those who are well-trained and experienced.
Well, I would love to see you doing it the other way round. Starting with a serious sparring (wearing protection gear) and AFTER the "fight" explaining which specific Karate/ WC techniques have worked for you in the given situation..
See I love this video. No tearing each other’s art down. A lot of martial arts have a lot in common. I made that same comment on the Karate Nerds channel when he was in China. That’s how we improve and learn from each other. I have learned a lot of Wing Chun in almost two years. I actually wanted to learn Karate as kid. May have to make that come true.
This is one of the best collaboration videos I've ever seen. Very creative. I am going to use that overhead punch of yours... Very original. Where are you located?
I love how as martial artists we can just stand in a room for an hour with only our body and our brain and learn so much by just flailing our limbs at each other.
Rapier fencing (HEMA) is very much Wing Chun with a sword. 4:45 is very similar to a Fencing Thrust where you lung forward while driving the point up forward. Seriously, Fencing (HEMA not Sport) looks near identical to Wing Chun and probably why Bruce Lee loved it so much.
@@KevinLeeVlog You can also see the off hand is in the same guard position. HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts. Unlike Asia in Europe weapon stores were common so in Europe fighting was wweaponed based because everyone was armed or could easily get armed. ua-cam.com/video/6r7VWIQCHvM/v-deo.html
The step behind check kick, that Anderson does, that Seth likes … was shown to Anderson by the Machidas (Lyoto & Chinzo) at Black House … so kinda back to Karate.
Being mainly a Karateka who has also done some Wing Chun, I enjoyed your video. Always nice to see cross over videos with open minded martial artists! As Karate has a lot of White Crane in it's lineage and Wing Chun is based on Snake and Crane, it's not surprising that you find some overlap. Also, one of the most important kata's in Karate is Tekki (Japanese)/Naihanchi (Okinawan). If you get somebody to perform this kata, but change the Horse Stance (Keba Dachi) to the Wing Chun stance (Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma), then Tekki/Naihanchi looks more akin to the other Wing Chun forms than it does to the other Karate kata's. Get somebody who knows the kata and try it! It can be an eye-opener :)
Would you record a video of good wing chun being used in free sparring? We saw a glimpse of it in the video where you taught Sensei Seth, but he only had a day to learn and he came in with a background in other martial arts. I'm anxious to see effective wing chun that doesn't just look like boxing. I know it can be done, but to my knowledge there just aren't any videos of it.
You can see the Kara Te and Wing Chun applications in this. Have to watch this several times for the footwork. Thanks. P.S. 5:20 Even after seeing that, you'd catch me every time with it (even though a goto is the blind overhand). Like an uppercut you don't see that one coming. Modified as a claw it would be an effective eye-poke. Sensei Seth's distracting low kick... same thing. So unexpected and enough to set up the killer kick. Awesome stuff.
i suggest a forward drop step for the sidekick..... stepping foward and to the side of the outside postion and close for a takedown, sweeps and or hands
base on the Philippine history, Kali is a combination of different branches of kung fu, karate, silat, muay thai and wrestling. I love how you made this mind opening content.
@@samuraisteve2775ost Kung Fu styles are weapon based (Wing Chun included!), and Kali's principles do apply to open hand combat, there's even a whole martial art called Panatukan/Santukan that's comprised of only the open handed techniques of Kali, so Kali is definitely not just weapons. Kali also has grappling. And even if it did not take stuff directly from Karate, it does Share a lot of things. So please be more kind when correcting others, even if you are 100% sure that you are right. And do fact check properly as well
4:00 the block and tap Seth starts talking about reminds me a lot of escrima. It's been a long time, and I wasn't exactly ever proficient, but the basic pattern I still remember is that same flowing tap to tap, but with a 3 part rhythm. cross body open hand block wrist/hand-inside hand back knuckle to bicep/nerve cluster-blocking hand backhand to temple/face
@Kevin Lee I assume you have Wing Chun students. What’s your approach on new students who wants to use wing chun for combat? Do you have them learn all the written forms or do you actually put every lesson into practical “street” use? Basically, how do you prevent it from seeming boring and inefficient (because no matter how much they master the forms if they’re unfamiliar with a real punch coming their way they’d get confused and rekt). When I started Wing Chun, my teacher wanted us to adhere to the form 100%, do all the drills, and do some wing chun practice drills in vs. As a beginner I thought it was all part of the process and rolled with it but I never experienced the true combat side of wing chun. We didn’t have any practitioners of other arts to try and spar against but I feel like it’s a huge waste not practicing what you learned against actual street situations, even if it’s just some amateur hooks and punches for which you don’t need to be a boxer or a kickboxer to use.
I learned a long time ago---It isn't the Art, or, Style, it's the individual. Some people are simply BETTER, or more experienced...OR, just better trained than others.
I absolutely loved this. Kevin, I would love to spend time with you sparing. Sounds like so much fun! Same styles learned with our own little nuances. Great video! You too, Seth!
This is my take on your Wing Chun vs Karate. Mr. Seth knows a lot, but from what I have seen he is not a traditional martial artist. He is more a modern kind of martial artist (in a good way). Maybe the exchange would have been more interesting with a more traditional martial art stylist. The video was very cool but I was expecting other answers. In Karate there is more to a block than most people think. What you guys did was very interesting and educational but in my eyes, it lack that special exchange of Wing Chun vs traditional karate (no Japanese karate that is mostly sports karate styles). Something from Okinawa that was meant to destroy if needed to be used. Nevertheless good job.
Around 8:20, a good intercept for a right haymaker punch is slam it with left forearm at same time you jam your right forearm into the side of their neck. (You are inside the arc, chin tucked as you slam into them) It hurts, disrupts, then you grab shirt or neck for control, knees, and it prevents them punching with other arm.
These collaborations are great .I like seeing the alternative striking styles ,Ive done boxing and Wing Chun seeing Karate move sets in comparison is great
Hi Kevin, i would like to see some friendly light wing chun sparring, because there are just not enough of those from capable people in my opinion. Surely Seth will gladly assist you.
As a both practionner of wingchun and wado ryu karaté, the double exist in some karaté katas as basai dai. From différents schools of wingchun or karaté you find some crane principes. And lines and stratégies.
So interesting to see the minor perks of each martial art, as much as each of you know, and the details. BTW, Karate from Okinawa also has the concept of blocking and countering at the same time, called meotode. It's both southern Chinese martial arts, but in Okinawa and then Japan they did develop differently. Also, Wing Chun "trapping" is widely practiced in various martial arts, like karate and Silat and I suppose many other styles. You block-grab-move away-counter, in a flow
I'm likeing what I see from both of you, so much knowledge and so much respect for each others ways. I'm going to refer to those knuckle raking techniques sensei Seth was touching on, there are a lot of them in Kali as you can imagine if you don't have a weapon in your hand it transfers the same. You smash and rake your knuckles into the face as the same movement as a stick or hammerfist but striking with the knuckles or fist mostly diagonally. Works with gloves on too and really hurts. Can look like a close in over hand but with knuckles up.
Interesting to see this kind of sparring discussion. It seems less about style vs style and pros vs cons, but more like to learn from each-other as an exchange between two experienced fighters. Flexibility and using what works for you was already a philosophy supported by Bruce Lee. 😉
Keep this up and we might get a new Ip Man for this generation. Now if only the other Chinese martial arts had more people like you on UA-cam but hey one can dream right?
This is probably how many martial arts developed and grew in the past martial artist meeting up discussing and trading concepts theories applications with each other. Not being completely segregated into one style.
The high guard with elbows forward while moving forward when opponent punches is good too. The opponents fist will make contact with your elbow and will most likely mess up or break the opponents hand. No hands no fight. Boom. I seen this demonstration in wing chun
It's not surprising there's a lotta similarities, because both Wing Chun and Karate trace their origins back to the southern Shaolin temple, particularly crane style kung fu. And like someone else pointed out, Bruce Lee probably had some influence on Kempo. Also, I live in Georgia! So I'm definitely gonna drop by to train with you at some point
The behind head jab is a great trick. I use it when I am being rear choke or underarm head lock. After turning my center towards the grabber. The jab will be going toward the back of the head.
UPDATE: I used the scorpion punch in sparring tonight and IT WORKED!! I was dancing around squealing like a five-year-old girl who just got a pony! 🎉🎉🎉🎉 I love this so much! I really want to try that scorpion punch. Everyone in my dojo is taller than me so I might be able to pull it off! 😂 That and the little step behind fakeout kick that Sensei Seth did.
The way wing chun deals with any haymaker and non centerline punch is to step into where the bigger person’s body is in a manner like wrestlers or jujitsu but instead of doing a take down you punch over and over centerline their forearm and fist is now behind you. Same for roundhouse kicks. You replace their current spot by punching to displace them from the spot they’re generating energy from. Again see Kenneth Chung UA-cam videos for examples
Kevin Lee that punch behind the head is called a dufeck stroke in canoeing a turning brace stoke behind the neck and head to turn the boat fast. If you could see it done it is like two punches at once It's a very old stroke not used anymore because of the severe shoulder separation risk. There are many strokes with a paddle from canoeing that can be seen in martial arts of all kinds. With sticks and without. I used to be on the race circuit many years ago when I was young now I am 65. I never realized the bunkai of paddling until I started watching the Jesse karate nerd. Therel are other canoe blocks and strikes one is called Eko strike from canoeing used in tong soo do to disarm a knife or gun,also windshield block with a cane. Most likely others too used with the bow . Becarefull for your shoulder. I would like to show some paddle strokes and have Jesse explain the bunkai . I was surprised to see the Karate in canoeing .
5:19 punching behind the head reminds me of Gene Fullmer. But he used it more shoulder to shoulder while in-fighting than during a mid-range angle change as you displayed.
I liked the Video very much, especially that this Video is not cuttet and you guys are using your own sound effects I am really relating to this Video. Thumbs Up xD
So the question is: do you go for what is most suitable for your build or to maintain your comfortable range even if riskier, or do you go for the higher percentage movements that are more likely to work but may leave you in a less favorable situation (long guard vs high cover, etc)? Being a beginner, taller and heavier with slightly stubbier arms I like to stay mid to close range and use minimal extension on my punches and use mostly lowline kicks in a standard boxing stance. Against really agile people or good kickers in wide open flat spaces it sucks a lot: you eat a lot of hits. Great video, really brings home how convergent evolution can happen in MA.
Well I have blended Wing Chung, Shotokan Karate and Aikido and I am really well rounded in my fight IQ and capabilities. It's not the system of fighting it's the dedication of the practitioner that makes a system effective.
I have a random partially unrelated question. From what I've gathered (knowing very little about martial arts by experience, having never actually done martial arts, however I do have an interest and listen to skilled practitioners content while also having decent listening skills), Wing Chun doesn't sound like a martial art you would want as a sort of stand alone art per say. Like, you wouldn't show up to a planned fight knowing only Wing Chun to a good degree, but being able to utilize Wing Chun as complimentary to other martial arts to strengthen both. I understand that in MMA you're gonna want to know kick boxing of some kind, striking of some kind, and grappling of some kind anyways, but in specifics to Wing Chun what type of martial art would you recommend pairing it with? I take it that Wing Chun is typically a striking art, and that it prefers to be able to close distances or to be good in very close distance engagements, so would you pair it with an art that has good spacing and defensive priorities so you can control the match and give yourself an opportunity to get in for grappling or within your comfortable range for Wing Chun? Or would you want to have an art that helps you bully your way in more forcefully and then just pressure your target into oblivion? Or of course, something completely different as I don't have any qualifications to know what I'm talking about.
The way wing chun gets into range is footwork, you don't fire until you are in range. Chu shong tin was asked at a seminar about range and he said if yr opponent means to fight you theybwill get in range. If they are too far away whoever has the best insults wins. Good wing chun pressures an opponent into oblivion.
Head shots are opportunity Strikes. Never go for the head first unless it is readily available to you. Especially in Muay Thai. And, that goes for any opportunity (heavy) strikes. 💯
So many tricks 😂👏
Sensei Seth, please take a look at sifu Och wing chun in Lakeland. Don’t want it say too much because I want you to just go see his stuff
That behind the head or the behind the back punch would be good for laughs in boxing.
A training method IS NOT a technique - a technical approach (no matter how many "tricks" or techniques you include) DOES NOT teach a system or method for training.
There's an old film, perhaps you have seen it, called "Enter the Dragon" with a famous scene where Sijo Bruce tells a martial arts student that the movements "need emotional content". Okay, GRANTED, maybe you never saw the film, or never really thought about it, But the essence of the dialogue is resoundingly clear and true: art is more than repetition, because an artist is on a journey. And so, the techniques are meant to show you the necessary steps in order to reach your goals, but without a DREAM, a VISION, and guiding principles to keep yourself honest about your progress towards commitments and goals.
Bro, activate the OODA loop 🤣
Sucks that anyone I've seen working to popularize practical wing chun ends up catching hate both from naysayers and wc hardliners. Keep doing what you're doing Kevin.
Thank you! 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Kevin is obviously SUCH a gifted instructor, and his video-tutorials are TOP notch. He, and Fong's association, and Kevin's efforts here in representing the art, are INDESPENSABLE to what we do as martial artists and wing Chun practioners. 🙏 MAD RESPECT, KEVIN 🙏
Agreed 100%! Could not have said it any better myself.
It’s only because traditional practices let the gulf get so wide between themselves and practicality. Kevin actually makes win chun work which is very threatening to anyone selling win chun as “a thousand year old tradition” because “mine works” is a better sales pitch.
@@ConernicusRex I mean, it's not even true :D. That's something I'd expect from people who do actual traditional/ancient kung fu styles, but wing chun is supposedly "just" 300 years old and I'm personally student in the Ip Man line, which is bit different and is from 20th century. Even Ip Man's direct student Bruce Lee was all about: "it's good, but let's make it even better". In my eyes: "learn the techniques and then make it work" IS the tradition :D. I question anyone who would just have you practice Siu Lim Tao for 10 years and then told you: "now you are kung fu master son". We do controlled sparing since day 1 in the beginner class, forms are used as a warm up/stretch and practicing them is our homework.
I am a 68yr old Martial artist, I started at 16yrs old in Wing Chun under Sifu Joseph Cheng and kept up the style for almost 15 yrs, also studying amateur boxing for a few years afterwards, I then tried WTF TKD up to 3rd dan and have recently started Shotokan passing my first couple of Kyu grades so far. I sincerely believe it is not so much the style as the man and the work put into training that really counts. All styles have something good to offer and i love martial artists like you two who have open minds and learn from each other!
Best comment ever on UA-cam
@@thejanitorssweeps5883 real life mr miyagi
yes, totally agree, that's why Bruce Lee developed Jeet Kune Do
@goggles789 I am sorry if my comment was found offensive..I posted it while drunk..I have removed it..Thanks for having replied anyway..
🚪✔️ 2:12
I love that two experts can compare and share openly, thereby learning even more to enrich themselves, and anyone paying attention. You've benefited all of us, thank you.
I think this might actually be kind of a case of circular evolution.
Seth's style of karate is American Kenpo (apologies if I'm mistaken on that). Based on his age, I assume he learned in the 1990s (or maybe as early as the late 1980s). That means he's probably got a ton of influence from American kickboxing/full contact karate of the late 1970s and early 1980s -- Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris, etc. Those guys were all training partners of Bruce Lee, who of course was rooted in Wing Chun. I think that's where the trap/backfist combo that Seth shows might be coming from.
According to Seth, the style of kempo he practices isn't based on Parker's system. There's probably connections to Hawaiian kempo (the parent style of Parker's system,) but according to Seth, Parker kind of did his own thing. It's a minor meme on his channel to differentiate "kempo" from "kenpo."
That said, the theory of picking it up from American kickboxers who could trace the technique back to Lee still seems solid.
@@NDOhioan Seth said in one of his videos, I can't remember which one that the Karate he practices is an Okinawan Kempo Style.
@@eddierivera7206 Now that you mention it, I *do* recall him saying a lot of the kata in his system were derived from goju-ryu...
@Sensei Seth You guys have a lot better understanding of the different breeds of kempo/kenpo than I do. Maybe Seth can clear this up definitively.
Actually, Wing Chun and Karate shares the same ancestor. Karate came from white crane, and white crane is supposedly from Ng Mui(Wu Mei). Wing Chun is also from Ng Mui.
Both white crane and karate has the same kata 三戰(saam jin in Cantonese, san chin in Japanese).
I really the positive vibes in the way they compare different style of martial arts and learn from each other.
That jab behind the head is actually a very common (and effective) technique in both medieval sword-and-buckler fighting, as well as somewhat later smallsword fencing. Obviously, it's a little easier to do it with a sword.
That’s pretty cool!!
What exactly do you mean, a zwerhaw over the head from a situation where you use the buckler to control the opponent's weapons? In that case, I agree, it's a super common and useful strike, but if you mean something else I'd like to hear what you mean. I know the arm control to thrust from behind your own back from Meyer's rappier and Angelo's smallsword, but I've never seen a version of it anywhere where you thrust from above your own shoulders. Probably would work just as fine though.
@@KevinLeeVlog he’s lying. The move is behind your back, not above and behind your head.
Mr. Rohlin: Please post a video of the movement you have in mind, sir. Doesn’t have to be perfect. Just for clarity, please.
@@HKsNoble45 "he's lying" is not a great way to lead off a request for polite discourse. But I'll fish around for a video and see what I can find.
I like that Kevin doesn't want to admit he just made an original technique with that back shoulder punch😆
In my wing chun training, and I think this is something that might suit Kevin due to his stature, especially compared to Seth, I was taught a high redirect with a biu (?) sao + a neutral sidestep. Again, due to the height difference, it might feel a bit more natural in this instance than the low redirect against round strikes.
For sure!!!
He is doing jkd not wing Chun
@@joshuaarinze4254 I guess to be more specific, I'm describing an alternative to the technique shown at 10:30. Regardless of what style you would attribute to that series of movements, I think the movements that I described would be a potential viable alternative.
had to look it up: ua-cam.com/video/FeiJIxzO9t4/v-deo.html
@@joshuaarinze4254 well he's doing wing chun as well (technically or not)
This is a very interesting video! The internet need this more open conversation from practitioners comparing and listening openingly from others! Much respect for both of you!
It’s always fun seeing a couple of practitioners getting together and nerding out about techniques they’ve learned or seen.
Great work. I love this collaboration. The entries the two of you explored in the last few minutes are things I teach how instead of transitioning back to strikes in the mid/punching range, I stay inside and use elbows, knees and short/close strikes to overload the opponents senses and to finish the engagement as soon as possible.
Awesome work
As a Wing Chun Practitionner, I love watching the subtle difference between different style of Wing Chun or similarities with other martial art, it's pretty fun ^^
You’re literally the only guy on the internet who can make me a believer in win chun for a few minutes at a time. Great video, keep it up 👍🏼
Wohl noch nie Emin botztepe und Philip Beyer gesehen...
This was really good exchange of perspective. Definitely want to see more.
Been following Kevin for a little while, it's always surprising when I see people I watch collab out of nowhere, Kevin's vid on the perfect kick made me drill it 200 times on each side on the night of the last new years, slipped the gym owner some cash to let me spend the night, changed the way I kicked, what an awesome guy
I like how Sensei Seth tells us what his "go-to" is, as this reminds those who are not experts the personal nature of martial arts for those who are well-trained and experienced.
Well, I would love to see you doing it the other way round. Starting with a serious sparring (wearing protection gear) and AFTER the "fight" explaining which specific Karate/ WC techniques have worked for you in the given situation..
I am planning to do with in the up coming video!
kewin play the jkd or wing chung?
See I love this video. No tearing each other’s art down. A lot of martial arts have a lot in common. I made that same comment on the Karate Nerds channel when he was in China. That’s how we improve and learn from each other. I have learned a lot of Wing Chun in almost two years. I actually wanted to learn Karate as kid. May have to make that come true.
This is one of the best collaboration videos I've ever seen. Very creative. I am going to use that overhead punch of yours... Very original. Where are you located?
I love how as martial artists we can just stand in a room for an hour with only our body and our brain and learn so much by just flailing our limbs at each other.
Love the respect these guys show each other dispite the different styles...TRUE MARTIAL ARTISTS!
Rapier fencing (HEMA) is very much Wing Chun with a sword.
4:45 is very similar to a Fencing Thrust where you lung forward while driving the point up forward.
Seriously, Fencing (HEMA not Sport) looks near identical to Wing Chun and probably why Bruce Lee loved it so much.
Interesting
Very cool information!
@@KevinLeeVlog A quick example I quickly pulled from my ass lol.
There is probably better but you can see.
ua-cam.com/video/OGvmlBY3U3c/v-deo.html
@@KevinLeeVlog You can also see the off hand is in the same guard position.
HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts.
Unlike Asia in Europe weapon stores were common so in Europe fighting was wweaponed based because everyone was armed or could easily get armed.
ua-cam.com/video/6r7VWIQCHvM/v-deo.html
The step behind check kick, that Anderson does, that Seth likes … was shown to Anderson by the Machidas (Lyoto & Chinzo) at Black House … so kinda back to Karate.
For what it’s worth, I was there.
It’s straight out of the praying mantis form, Bung Bo.
I don't understand how every Wing Chun guy gets called a Master in Utube sparring matches
Being mainly a Karateka who has also done some Wing Chun, I enjoyed your video. Always nice to see cross over videos with open minded martial artists!
As Karate has a lot of White Crane in it's lineage and Wing Chun is based on Snake and Crane, it's not surprising that you find some overlap.
Also, one of the most important kata's in Karate is Tekki (Japanese)/Naihanchi (Okinawan).
If you get somebody to perform this kata, but change the Horse Stance (Keba Dachi) to the Wing Chun stance (Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma), then Tekki/Naihanchi looks more akin to the other Wing Chun forms than it does to the other Karate kata's. Get somebody who knows the kata and try it! It can be an eye-opener :)
Great Video Man. I love that punch that looks like you are doing a hook shot in basketball. That's pretty slick. 🤙💯
Would you record a video of good wing chun being used in free sparring?
We saw a glimpse of it in the video where you taught Sensei Seth, but he only had a day to learn and he came in with a background in other martial arts.
I'm anxious to see effective wing chun that doesn't just look like boxing. I know it can be done, but to my knowledge there just aren't any videos of it.
I like to see such an open and honest exchange of information. Truly inspiring.
I'm a simple man. I see a more modern and practical take on wing chun principles, and I subscribe.
This was an awesome video... I love how in the end, they were just complementing each other on the tricks... SUBSCRIBED
Love it. 2 quality practitioners sparring and comparing notes on the art they have invested time in.
You can see the Kara Te and Wing Chun applications in this. Have to watch this several times for the footwork. Thanks.
P.S.
5:20 Even after seeing that, you'd catch me every time with it (even though a goto is the blind overhand). Like an uppercut you don't see that one coming. Modified as a claw it would be an effective eye-poke. Sensei Seth's distracting low kick... same thing. So unexpected and enough to set up the killer kick. Awesome stuff.
Thanks for having us
I love these guys, the respect and comradary, this is what martial arts is really about 👌👍🙏
i suggest a forward drop step for the sidekick..... stepping foward and to the side of the outside postion and close for a takedown, sweeps and or hands
Sparring with people using other styles is so much fun
base on the Philippine history, Kali is a combination of different branches of kung fu, karate, silat, muay thai and wrestling. I love how you made this mind opening content.
Thanks for teaching when you should not. Kali is weapons based, for starters.
#whitebelt
@@samuraisteve2775ost Kung Fu styles are weapon based (Wing Chun included!), and Kali's principles do apply to open hand combat, there's even a whole martial art called Panatukan/Santukan that's comprised of only the open handed techniques of Kali, so Kali is definitely not just weapons. Kali also has grappling.
And even if it did not take stuff directly from Karate, it does Share a lot of things.
So please be more kind when correcting others, even if you are 100% sure that you are right. And do fact check properly as well
Two of my favorite martial arts youtubers
I call that vertical punch an up jab, uppercut jab, i havent been able to land it in sparring yet though but i’m working on it
4:00 the block and tap Seth starts talking about reminds me a lot of escrima. It's been a long time, and I wasn't exactly ever proficient, but the basic pattern I still remember is that same flowing tap to tap, but with a 3 part rhythm. cross body open hand block wrist/hand-inside hand back knuckle to bicep/nerve cluster-blocking hand backhand to temple/face
@Kevin Lee I assume you have Wing Chun students. What’s your approach on new students who wants to use wing chun for combat? Do you have them learn all the written forms or do you actually put every lesson into practical “street” use? Basically, how do you prevent it from seeming boring and inefficient (because no matter how much they master the forms if they’re unfamiliar with a real punch coming their way they’d get confused and rekt).
When I started Wing Chun, my teacher wanted us to adhere to the form 100%, do all the drills, and do some wing chun practice drills in vs. As a beginner I thought it was all part of the process and rolled with it but I never experienced the true combat side of wing chun. We didn’t have any practitioners of other arts to try and spar against but I feel like it’s a huge waste not practicing what you learned against actual street situations, even if it’s just some amateur hooks and punches for which you don’t need to be a boxer or a kickboxer to use.
the way seth opens his legs for kevin's height lol
I learned a long time ago---It isn't the Art, or, Style, it's the individual.
Some people are simply BETTER, or more experienced...OR, just
better trained than others.
I absolutely loved this. Kevin, I would love to spend time with you sparing. Sounds like so much fun! Same styles learned with our own little nuances. Great video! You too, Seth!
This is my take on your Wing Chun vs Karate. Mr. Seth knows a lot, but from what I have seen he is not a traditional martial artist. He is more a modern kind of martial artist (in a good way). Maybe the exchange would have been more interesting with a more traditional martial art stylist. The video was very cool but I was expecting other answers. In Karate there is more to a block than most people think. What you guys did was very interesting and educational but in my eyes, it lack that special exchange of Wing Chun vs traditional karate (no Japanese karate that is mostly sports karate styles). Something from Okinawa that was meant to destroy if needed to be used. Nevertheless good job.
LOVE this.
THANK YOU SIR!!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼
I love how two different marsh laws from three different backgrounds Come too train with each over
Just love that 2 different style practioners are just kicking it
love how open-minded these guys are.
Great sharing senseis. I love the Yamazuki punch with the revised back head punch. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Around 8:20, a good intercept for a right haymaker punch is slam it with left forearm at same time you jam your right forearm into the side of their neck. (You are inside the arc, chin tucked as you slam into them)
It hurts, disrupts, then you grab shirt or neck for control, knees, and it prevents them punching with other arm.
These collaborations are great .I like seeing the alternative striking styles ,Ive done boxing and Wing Chun seeing Karate move sets in comparison is great
Hi Kevin, i would like to see some friendly light wing chun sparring, because there are just not enough of those from capable people in my opinion. Surely Seth will gladly assist you.
I have some of Wing Chun sparring video coming up this week! Also, there is a bit of sparring of me and Jackie in my recent video.
As a both practionner of wingchun and wado ryu karaté, the double exist in some karaté katas as basai dai.
From différents schools of wingchun or karaté you find some crane principes. And lines and stratégies.
Glad I found this channel Kevin!
Thank you for your support!
Those do look like fun tricks.
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
So interesting to see the minor perks of each martial art, as much as each of you know, and the details. BTW, Karate from Okinawa also has the concept of blocking and countering at the same time, called meotode. It's both southern Chinese martial arts, but in Okinawa and then Japan they did develop differently. Also, Wing Chun "trapping" is widely practiced in various martial arts, like karate and Silat and I suppose many other styles. You block-grab-move away-counter, in a flow
I'm likeing what I see from both of you, so much knowledge and so much respect for each others ways. I'm going to refer to those knuckle raking techniques sensei Seth was touching on, there are a lot of them in Kali as you can imagine if you don't have a weapon in your hand it transfers the same. You smash and rake your knuckles into the face as the same movement as a stick or hammerfist but striking with the knuckles or fist mostly diagonally. Works with gloves on too and really hurts. Can look like a close in over hand but with knuckles up.
i have only just seen wing chun recently, and i'm impressed by it's aggression. like the flicker of fire!
Interesting to see this kind of sparring discussion. It seems less about style vs style and pros vs cons, but more like to learn from each-other as an exchange between two experienced fighters. Flexibility and using what works for you was already a philosophy supported by Bruce Lee. 😉
love this sort of compare & contrast analysis - thanks
Keep this up and we might get a new Ip Man for this generation.
Now if only the other Chinese martial arts had more people like you on UA-cam but hey one can dream right?
This is probably how many martial arts developed and grew in the past martial artist meeting up discussing and trading concepts theories applications with each other. Not being completely segregated into one style.
Great duo 🥋 🦵🏽
He described a slip counter as his favorite move
The high guard with elbows forward while moving forward when opponent punches is good too. The opponents fist will make contact with your elbow and will most likely mess up or break the opponents hand. No hands no fight. Boom. I seen this demonstration in wing chun
It's not surprising there's a lotta similarities, because both Wing Chun and Karate trace their origins back to the southern Shaolin temple, particularly crane style kung fu. And like someone else pointed out, Bruce Lee probably had some influence on Kempo.
Also, I live in Georgia! So I'm definitely gonna drop by to train with you at some point
Yeah... Karate came from when monks in China travelled to Japan and taught the village people martial arts and they changed over time.
@@dancooke8811 that is wrong on many levels I suggest you check Jesse enkamp in china series where he finds the true history of the origins of karate
The behind head jab is a great trick. I use it when I am being rear choke or underarm head lock. After turning my center towards the grabber. The jab will be going toward the back of the head.
That's a good one!
not the collab we knew we needed but definitely the one we wanted
Like he said: So many tricks to try in sparring! I’m definitely going to try some of these in sparring next few TSD classes! Thanks for sharing! 🥋🙂
UPDATE: I used the scorpion punch in sparring tonight and IT WORKED!! I was dancing around squealing like a five-year-old girl who just got a pony! 🎉🎉🎉🎉
I love this so much! I really want to try that scorpion punch. Everyone in my dojo is taller than me so I might be able to pull it off! 😂 That and the little step behind fakeout kick that Sensei Seth did.
Thank you for adding to my arsenal
it really depends on an individual's physical abilities more so than what fighting form they're using.
When can I see you guys in MMA fight ? Can't wait 👊
Similarities in the principles should not suprise you. Karate Nerd showed that in his journey through China.
I gotta check that episode out!
That body bag is never not swinging.
The way wing chun deals with any haymaker and non centerline punch is to step into where the bigger person’s body is in a manner like wrestlers or jujitsu but instead of doing a take down you punch over and over centerline their forearm and fist is now behind you. Same for roundhouse kicks. You replace their current spot by punching to displace them from the spot they’re generating energy from. Again see Kenneth Chung UA-cam videos for examples
Great wee video, fantastic to see two guys enjoying training together 👍🏻✌🏻
Shows that in most traditional martial arts they avoid punches to the head to keep from breaking the hands.
Loving this♥️
I have a BB in Wing Chun and I've never seen the behind the back around my head punch in my life. Even exploring many styles, never seen it.
Kevin Lee that punch behind the head is called a dufeck stroke in canoeing a turning brace stoke behind the neck and head to turn the boat fast. If you could see it done it is like two punches at once It's a very old stroke not used anymore because of the severe shoulder separation risk. There are many strokes with a paddle from canoeing that can be seen in martial arts of all kinds. With sticks and without. I used to be on the race circuit many years ago when I was young now I am 65. I never realized the bunkai of paddling until I started watching the Jesse karate nerd. Therel are other canoe blocks and strikes one is called Eko strike from canoeing used in tong soo do to disarm a knife or gun,also windshield block with a cane. Most likely others too used with the bow . Becarefull for your shoulder. I would like to show some paddle strokes and have Jesse explain the bunkai . I was surprised to see the Karate in canoeing .
7:10 I saw anderson Silva doing a similar trick that finish with a roundhouse kick against adesanya,and it was nice to watch
Good stuff here. Much to think about.
7:28 karate master: "that's cheating!!" 😄, is awesome that you try so many martial arts and things.
5:19 punching behind the head reminds me of Gene Fullmer. But he used it more shoulder to shoulder while in-fighting than during a mid-range angle change as you displayed.
I got rocked to the body yesterday by the reverse punch to the body 😅 I thought he touched my spine 🤣
OUCH!!!!!
@Kevin Lee you mentioned in the video Kali training, have you also had Yaw-Yan training as well from the Philippines?
Confidence with humility equals master
I liked the Video very much, especially that this Video is not cuttet and you guys are using your own sound effects I am really relating to this Video. Thumbs Up xD
So the question is: do you go for what is most suitable for your build or to maintain your comfortable range even if riskier, or do you go for the higher percentage movements that are more likely to work but may leave you in a less favorable situation (long guard vs high cover, etc)?
Being a beginner, taller and heavier with slightly stubbier arms I like to stay mid to close range and use minimal extension on my punches and use mostly lowline kicks in a standard boxing stance. Against really agile people or good kickers in wide open flat spaces it sucks a lot: you eat a lot of hits.
Great video, really brings home how convergent evolution can happen in MA.
Well I have blended Wing Chung, Shotokan Karate and Aikido and I am really well rounded in my fight IQ and capabilities. It's not the system of fighting it's the dedication of the practitioner that makes a system effective.
They are both good styles . It comes to the individual skills in applying them.
I have a random partially unrelated question. From what I've gathered (knowing very little about martial arts by experience, having never actually done martial arts, however I do have an interest and listen to skilled practitioners content while also having decent listening skills), Wing Chun doesn't sound like a martial art you would want as a sort of stand alone art per say. Like, you wouldn't show up to a planned fight knowing only Wing Chun to a good degree, but being able to utilize Wing Chun as complimentary to other martial arts to strengthen both. I understand that in MMA you're gonna want to know kick boxing of some kind, striking of some kind, and grappling of some kind anyways, but in specifics to Wing Chun what type of martial art would you recommend pairing it with? I take it that Wing Chun is typically a striking art, and that it prefers to be able to close distances or to be good in very close distance engagements, so would you pair it with an art that has good spacing and defensive priorities so you can control the match and give yourself an opportunity to get in for grappling or within your comfortable range for Wing Chun? Or would you want to have an art that helps you bully your way in more forcefully and then just pressure your target into oblivion? Or of course, something completely different as I don't have any qualifications to know what I'm talking about.
The way wing chun gets into range is footwork, you don't fire until you are in range. Chu shong tin was asked at a seminar about range and he said if yr opponent means to fight you theybwill get in range. If they are too far away whoever has the best insults wins. Good wing chun pressures an opponent into oblivion.
Love the video ! Thanks
I need hours more of this
Bong sao is the only form that belongs to Wing Chun. Iconic.
Head shots are opportunity Strikes. Never go for the head first unless it is readily available to you. Especially in Muay Thai. And, that goes for any opportunity (heavy) strikes. 💯
PRETTY INSTRUCTIVE SHIT DUDE THANKS, thanks...