What Was the Hammer of the Waters? Westeros Disaster Hunters - Ice and Fire Theory
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2023
- What was the Hammer of the Waters anyway? It was something the children of the forest supposedly "called down" to smash the land bridge known as the Arm of Dorne, yes, but what was it? And did the children really do it? How much of Westeros did it affect - what about the Neck and Moat Cailin, for example? This comprehensive examination will explore all the possibilities and present a satisfying answer.
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title image uses "Child of the Forest" by Sammy Torres
maps of the unbroken Arm of Dorne come from Werthead's excellent Atlas of Ice and Fire blog:
atlasoficeandfireblog.wordpre... - Розваги
Never apologize for talking about symbolism! That is what sets you apart and what makes your videos so interesting.
Agreed
Agreed!
Have to add a voice saying he can (and has been recently) take it too far
Exactly!!
@@Koryoswolfspirit That is his expertise and his niche. It is why I appreciate his perspective. His studies regarding symbolism are highly refined and are deeply fascinating. If people understood how important symbolism is, they would be more open minded and attentive towards all of the little details.
It is all metaphysical information embedded within the physical which speaks to us as a nonverbal language. It is archetypal code which helps us to understand the design signature and structure of our own souls, something which is at the very heart of our collective consciousness. Knowing symbolism helps us to not only navigate our external and internal worlds but also to make sense of our dreams and the messages of our Creator, in other words, the purposes of our lives. Which, each and every one of us are different, unique archetypes and we each gravitate towards certain symbols. I find, in my humble opinion, it is optimal for us to learn as much about all the various symbols and their meanings in order to not only hone in on our our custom self but also to understand how they all connect and thus cooperate within a unified system. The goal is for our own souls, as symbols, to operate within a cohesive system in order to carry out the work embedded within the Song of Ice and Fire. This song can be understood by absorbing the lights of the Sun and Moon, primarily through our eyes, for the language or light energy contain psionic codes which further our evolution and prepare us for the ever generating next steps.
The Hammer of the Waters is actually a resurrected, time-traveling Robert Baratheon, who literally uses his hammer to shatter the stepstones.
{grandpa Simpson voice} NOW WE'RE TALKIN!!
Gods, he was strong 😂
Some call getting blackout drunk “time traveling”, so…
Durran Godsgrief is the story that sold me on Baratheon being my favorite house in the setting. They're so temperamental, stubborn, and "screw you I'll do it anyway." To the point a man built a house so strong it keeps out the malding of pissy gods while he rails their daughter. Their warcry/house motto is also so badass. Not to mention Bobby B's utter roflstomp of Rhaegar.
Just such a gigachad house.
To be fair those guys weren't barathions tho
@@danieldelaney1377 true but they've held to that really stubborn nature
Going for 45 minutes without mentioning the moon meteors. Impressive!
I was fidgeting a bit haha
The hammer smashing Rhaegar's armor and the jewels spraying into rthe water also is a pretty good callback to the Hammer event creating the Stepstones
100%
I think GRRM was at least partially inspired to write the Durran Godsgrief myth based on the origin myth associated with Dinas Emrys in Wales. In the myth, a ruler, Vortigern, keeps trying to build a tower on a specific spot, but it keeps falling down. He is told by his wise men that for the tower to be successfully built, he must sacrifice a boy not born of mortal man. He found a boy named Ambrosius/Emrys (in a later version, Myrddin/Merlin) who told him that the real issue was that on the site of the tower was a hidden pool in which two dragons fought one another, a red one and a white one. This story contains many of the same elements you identified: a king trying to build a stronghold that keeps getting destroyed, that king consulting another mythical figure (in GRRM's version, that was Brandon the Builder) who appears as a child, possible child sacrifice, and dragons!
no doubt this is the inspiration for Monty Python's bit too
And this legend resulted in the Welsh flag featuring a red dragon, iirc
As a Native American who was raised quite traditionally. This subject is so refreshing/fascinating from a fantasy standpoint.
For anyone wondering my tribes are Yuchi, Cherokee, Choctaw, Osage and Creek. We even go back to Oklahoma every year to take place in our harvest ceremony. Which most Europeans would have referred as blood rituals.
Keep it up LML I loved the Mystery knight read through!
That's dope man and there's a lot more to the comparison too, Martin lives in New Mexico and I think he's pretty into the history of the continent
I love that you were raised traditionally, it would be very sad to lose such a beautiful culture. And keep sharing your knowledge. 😊
Thank you very much! All we can do is pass it onto our kids and hope they appreciate it like we have. I love this community! Much love as always myth heads.
That would be a post-Christian Europe, like any other primitive cultures and traditions, ancient European rituals often had animal and human sacrifice.
@@lokdog257yeah a few powers destroyed most old culture nearly completely
Maesters have suppressed this knowledge but the First Men came to Westeros in giant stone donuts. That's why the Children broke the Arm of Dorne, to keep the First Men from rolling in any more stone donuts. To make matters worse, earthquaking a stonut just turns it into a ringfort.
I hope Im not too late to the party here, but Id like to add another strong link between antlers and storms! I havent seen GRRM use Sámi mythology much but there is a god called Ukko that is associated with weather, sky, harvest and thunder. On a sacred island called Ukkonsaari an archaeological site dedicated to him was found, it was a cave filled with reindeer antlers, all of them standing with the spikes downwards which is a very clear parallel as to how lightning looks when it comes from the sky
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I was able to play this full episode at work yesterday when it dropped - and I might have turned on a few eyes and ears ❤
Hard to believe anything could survive being hit in the arm and the neck with a hammer.
I survived a hammer hit to the thumb and I survived, coincidence?
@@swayback7375so far
Not to mention that Maester Luwin crawled on his hands and knees. Pulling himself along his belly with his arms. Aaaaaaall the way across Winterfell and into the Godswood. To die with his blood seeping into the roots of the tree.
Does that sound like someone who doesn’t believe in the power of the Old Gods and the tales of Old Nan?
Or was the "Hammer of the Waters" like the inundation of Doggerland? But with moon meteors, instead of an undersea landslide.
We're not even going to use symbolism....that much....😆
You are, hands down, the BEST ASOIAF channel on UA-cam. 👏
Very true.
i’m new to your content and can i just say, i’m addicted! love your deep dives into the symbolism and mythology of westeros. amazing work!
Such a great theory. Glad you finally put all your thoughts into a comprehensive video or 3. Now I can point at this video when I'm talking to people about the Hammer of the Waters and say, "See, I'm not crazy. He's crazy!"
Look up The volcanic winter of 536 AD. I just learned about this and immediately realized this is what the long night is based on.
For sure it's part of it
@@DavidLightbringer I never hear you mention it, so I wasn't sure if you knew about it. It is speculated that all mythologies (Norse, japanese, the bible, Arthurian legend) referring to an endless night or eternal winter are speaking of this cataclysm. Just seems like a cool topic for a video as it seems to parallel a real global event becoming part of many mythology like ASOIAF's long night.
I suppose it could be possible for the Weirwoods to shake the earth apart if the trees are just the tops of a mushroom-like organism that extends across Westeros with the majority of it actually living underground. Of course, this would make the hammer even more self-sacrificial for the Children to attempt if that was what caused it
Yes this is the one possibility that's wildly different that's out there... And it could make sense,certainly,. It's just that I don't think the clues are pointing that way.
@@DavidLightbringer Definitely agree with you there. I was trying to say that the only way that the Children could feasibly make it work also functions as evidence that it wasn't them who were responsible for the Hammer
I’d like to point out that in the Arianne TWOW sample chapter we see faces carved in stone in the cave system.
Yeah those are green men / old ones faces I bet, what do you think?
@@DavidLightbringer he does nothing without purpose!
I'd like to point out that Martell means Hammer in French or something. Maybe the pre-Nymeria Martells have a history with the Hammer of the Waters?
Or they at least took their name from the myth, for its mystique?
As a Gen Xer. I do love a bit of STP!
I know antlers and horns are two different things - antlers grow every year and are shed, horns are not shed - but i can see how they'd be crossed over time
Yes it's like crows and ravens in terms of folklore
Martin worked in Elden ring, wich has a region called Caelid, like Cailin. The region is devastated. Perhaps he suggested the name to add more layers to the onion.
Love onion!
Not only that, but in ER there's been at least one cataclysmic meteor shower, maybe more, and another separate apocalyptic event concerning the destruction of a moon and an alien meteor-parasite!
@@Pizzifrizzo Not just there is space themed stuff, but there is a big lot of it in ER.
Also - are you familiar with Atlas of Middle-Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad? She made cartographic book about Middle-Earth, where she theorize a lot about natural phenomena, which caused a lot of Middle-Earth's geographical transformations, which were of course mostly caused by magical things and beings (which she isn't denying, just like "it's magic using nature". And of course - she drew maps! I've last read it around ten years ago and it's probably somewhere in attic of my family home, but even after this time I think it could be inspiring to incorporate some of the method to examine ASOIAF world, especially when we can see some inspiration in destruction of Numenor and Beleriand in the Hammer.
No I haven't but that sounds rad!
Breaking the Arm of Dorn still makes some sense still if more and more First men are migrating through it every year. More of like a closing the barn door when half the horses got out kind of situation at that point. But the rest of it, from the green magic never displaying that type of power before or sense, to the level of overkill when smaller more tactical earth quakes would be more effective, to how it just doesn't jive with the CotF's philosophy and nature worship to be destroying nature like that. I find all that to be wholly convincing.
I’m so used to the long livestreams, this felt like a tease. More ASOIAF please ❤
Listen to his old podcasts!
“secret tree towns” looks like a larger scale version of Jet’s hideout in Avatar the Last Airbender in my mind 😅😂
Ewok villiages has always been my go to but I'm older haha
"Secret treetown! Secret treetown! Through the mountainnnn, secret secret treetown" 🎵
Garth be praised!!
LET'S
GET
HAMMERED
Thanks for the shorter video. I understand why the live streams work for you, bit it's difficult for some of us to dedicate that much time.
The whole ASOIAF ancient lore always reminds me of the Graham Hancock books but in fantasy edition, it has it all: A lost advanced ancient civilization during the Ice Age, years of darkness, a cataclysmic meteoric disaster that changed the land, great flood, ancient myths/lore around the world that match, astronomical kind of religion, megalithic constructions.... And I love all of it. Please, keep up the amazing work, it's tremendously awesome!
Except graham hancock’s racist propaganda wrapped fantasy that isn’t well written. He’s a 1/10 hack.
After 40 minutes I was starting to get worried you wouldn’t bring up the moon meteors haha
I always love your videos thanks so much for all the work you do to keep ASOIF alive in all our hearts during this long night
😂😂😂
I imagined that the Reed family being referred to as “frog eaters” can clue us into whether the neck is a salt marsh. I initially thought that frogs could not exist in salt marshes, but it seems that some frogs can thrive in salt water.
Not to mention the lizard lions which are similar to crocodiles
Hey David, I've been binge watching your back catalogue and thought I'd stop in again and say - your content is absolutely awesome. I've been making notes for potential artworks to create in the near future!
Awesome and please let me know!
Welcome to the myth head family ❤️
@@andrzejkopalnia Thank you!
Finally a new video from you! I love your livestreams, but your videos are something special.
In the Great Empire of the Dawn, I believe that the gemstone emperors are actually dynasties, rather than singular individuals. Every Yi Tish dynasty is named after a color, so it’s not unreasonable to assume that early dynasties were referred to as colorful gems.
With that in mind, the Blood Betrayal is mirrored by Robert’s Rebellion. A dynasty of amethyst-eyed Targaryens is usurped by a related “sibling” dynasty.
Bloodstone itself is worth examining, because it’s a mixture of green jasper and red hematite. Once Robert dies, Stannis and Renly each try to claim the throne. Stannis is associated with red, and Renly is associated with green.
So Targaryen equals Amethyst, and Baratheon equals Bloodstone? Perhaps.
Other gemstones may also be associated with other houses, but I’m not entirely sure which ones best fit each house
Hammer time! Da na na na…
Now where did I put my parachute pants….
In all seriousness I’m embarrassed I missed the shirt- I legitimately thought it was a NIN shirt. :p
What I find interesting is the notion that perhaps a villain among the Green Men caused the meteor strike. Which makes me wonder if Ahzor Ahai or the Bloodstone Emperor was a reaction to the figure of Durran Godsgrief. Or perhaps a later transition as Godsgrief became God’s Grief for real, slaying his divine wife in an attempt to rectify his arrogance.
I feel like… there’s a deeper element of tragedy if you slay the wife you defied the gods to steal in order to “set things right”.
❤i love how much you can explain everything in the books! I have been watching you for years and I hope 🤞 that you will continue to grow and keep the channel ❤
I had 2 theories about the Neck being a separate cataclysm: 1 - an earlier one. I wouldn't necessarily call it a test run, but as the first time using such magic, it might not have been strong enough, and with the Arm they went overboard.
2 - It happened later, maybe when a separate wave of men started coming over and the wanted to retreat and seal off the north, but they didn't want to cause as bug a calamity, they kind of scared themselves, so they used a weaker form of the magic, or they lacked the numbers to perform another of the first's size.
As for the Children's Tower, that could have been the approximate location of a God's Wood and Heart tree or trees and this was the site of a friendly house of men, though if that's the case, they probably were trying for a weaker version of the spell.
Dude, you're in one Hell of a GRRoove lately with this sweet polished video coming off of those epic livestreams. Thanks, Bud, for all your work!
Was audible laughing, with agreement, when you were making your Robert points. Brilliant vid!
Big fan of this potential series. Might finally bring some answers to some of my long pondered questions about the watery parts of this story of ice and fire.
I think so, by the time we get to the Ironborn!
This was a fantastic intro to mythical astronomy.
Also, I was totally pulling a Leo by snapping my fingers & pointing at the tv when you said Moon Meteors.
Always love your videos!Great job,as ever!
Exact same lyric leapt into my head as you said it and this is the second time you've music nerded me in as many weeks; I greatly approve!
Thank you David. Another fantastic video. :)
Awesome new set-up by the way!
Heck yeah, David. I'm excited to watch it when I have time!
So happy to see this channel gaining more traction. You’re the best, LmL!
Been waiting to watch this video for at least a week, excited to start!
Love all the editing in this one! Hammer of the Waters is probably in my top 3 theories of yours, beside Moon Meteors and Kingsguard=The Others, it has so much logic in it, in addition to fun symbolic stuff :)
Yeeeyyyyy!!!! One whole hour if new LML content. Thank you David!!!! We love your videos!!!
LML, you are a cut above the rest, truly 💜💜💜
This was great, I'm really hyped now for the next videos!
Your videos and livestreams are just the best! You make me re-examine and look at my favorite series in a whole new light. Fantastic work.
The quality of your videos continues to improve, thank you for all your hard work!!
I love your ASOIAF content so much! Thank you for so many of these deep dives and symbolism. I can’t wait for the next videos!
I was hoping this would help me fall asleep but my consciousness clung to every word you said❤ the Lucifer’s hammer part was🤯🤯 I’ll have to check out something else that I’ve already listened to next so I’m not too hype. Can’t wait for the next vid!!
This is fantastic! I learn so much from you. Keep it coming. Thank you for all your amazing content!
your videos are my favorite on youtube. love your work and thank you for what you do
I'm here for it brotha. Long anticipated and kindly received. Much appreciated LML
This is my dream video from you. So excited to watch! This stuff is so fun to think about.
Great Video Dave! A very quick word on the flora and fauna of the Neck. It seems that George used an amalgam of several different kinds of freshwater wetlands for its atmospheric value. One thing I might point out is that the kind of wetlands created by saltwater (i.e., salt marshes) do not have the same characteristics that George emphasized in his books, like the overall gloominess and treacherousness of the terrain. To me, he is imagining a mixture of two kinds of freshwater wetlands for the Neck: (1) swamps found in the southern states (mainly the wetlands of Louisiana), and (2) the peatlands of Europe. I am not very knowledgeable of the mythical stories surrounding swamplands in the indigenous cultures of the Americas, but in pre-modern Europe, boglands were almost always associated with something nefarious and sinister, and even as places of ritual sacrifices in ancient times. This fits very well with the story woven into the region as you also are exploring in detail.
However, this does not negate your theory of a catastrophic event occurring concurrently across vast distances. George was probably not paying that much of an attention on the ecological and geological accuracy of the whole thing. 😊 Or, it could very well be the case that the same catastrophe that affected the arm of Dorne might have increased the freshwater tables in the Neck through aquifers and underwater caves, inundating the landscape.
Ah okay thank you so much for your perspective!
Great Video David as always! Thanks😊
Given that the Neck has multiple rivers running through it, in the present day its probably mostly a fresh water bog/marsh. But it's perfectly possible for a flood to have turned the land into a bog, and then for the salt deposited by the flood to gradually be washed out, leaving behind a fresh water bog, with perhaps coastal salt marshes
Absolutely adore this sort of content, nice duration, great visuals, great topics, super excited for the OTHERS in the series, much love!
Thanks Daniel!
@@DavidLightbringerwhat if just like the king night their have been multiple hammers of the water 💧
Been looking forward to this!
Absolutely tremendous. Succinct yet detailed and informative yet familiar. Your love for the world of ASOIAF songs through yet again. Looking forward to the rest of the series!
Haven’t read this series in over a decade, but I just love listening to lore and theories - thank you so much for the effort you put into these!!
Love this and so stoked for Moat Cailin 🤗
What a great topic, hyped for this!
Good analysis! And I dig your style. Sold!!
A video! Awesome deep dive on this lore! I don’t know how you do it!
Loved this video. Great job! Looking forward to your Moat Cailin vid 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I share your love for Moat Cailin. It's such an interesting place I feel we know little of. And it's such a cool concept to have these massive ruined towers guarding the southern border of the north.
Symbolism is great. You do capture alot of stuff, especially about the mythology of planetos and GRRMs world building that alot of other content creators miss. You are spot on about this stuff and the Bloodstone emperor. While i reach different conclusions from you as to my idea of where some of the characters are going, your content did broaden my perspective alot. Never change, you fill in an important role and cover alot of theory gaps in this fandom.
Thank you for posting, I've longed for a video series of this nature!
I'm definitely with you in your assessments here, David :)
Right on Lucas thanks man
Great video as always ❤❤❤
Thanks again for the content.
Perfect timing for me to fully watch this. I hope they find those extra smart ppl who wanted to go see the titanic in real life
LML, helpling with my insomnia with wonderful content for like 4 yrs now!
Yes, yes, yes, waiting for this!
I enjoyed this so so much. I love the longer in depth videos when you lay out your theories with all the evidence to back them up and explain how you came to the conclusions you have. Your passion for it shines 😊
Thank you Amy!!
I always love your work, keep it up.
Hammer time!! Great video David, thank you! I love the streams but the refined edited videos are gold, especially the character pop ins with the chat bubbles, love it all! Can’t wait for the Moat Calin vid!
Side note, you need a Valyrian Steel hammer lol
That would be lighter, yeah!
Great video!! I'm finally almost done with Dance as a first-time reader!!
David, I love these videos so god damn much.
Ooh thank you for another video to listen to! I know it will be amazing before i even watch it!
Outfit win!! Love it. I was wondering where the other N was and the explanation was perfect.
Hell yeah MEGA-HYPED for this, also thank you david and maynard plum for the recent uploads to spotify, will be devouring them tonight on my 12hr night shift
Praise garth
Great video!
Its David Lightbringer! Drop everything! You look very habdsome and the new studio looks awesome 💯😎 i cant wait for more from my favorite youtuber!
I choose to believe that it was just a giant hammer made of water.
Legit
You are the absolute best!!!! Great Video!!! 🤘
Man I love your symbolism talks! made me look at literature in a completely different way. The whole point is walking the line and see if it all comes together in the end, it's damn fun to lay down all the pieces. Thank you for your content, it really is helping me gather my thoughts and think about something else than life. Keep going!
Your production value skyrocketed.
Never pass on the opportunity for some 90’s nostalgia.
That mingling of the waters got me tingling!
Hahaha
Catching up on some of your videos. It's been a tough 6 months for me, but back to better times. Hammer time!!
welcome back!! this is a fun series
Your passion for these stories shows through in EVERY SINGLE VIDEO. Thank you very much for all you've put in to this. Hope that the rebrand has helped the finances and exposure end a bit.
In regards to fauna of the neck, the lion lizard things sound very much like salt water crocodiles, but could just be inspired by crocodilians in general.
Maybe the lion lizards were washed up to the neck from the coasts of essos?
I saw something that lizard lions are actually their own fantasy creature and at the very least crocodiles and maybe alligators elsewhere I think it might be in the world of ice and fire I'm not sure
these videos hit different when im high praise garth