I also love the point about adding 0.5xBB for each caller. I've recently gotten a tip to try open raising an extra 0.5x-1x for each limper and it's been working wonders compared to how I used to usually max open 3.5x.
+McGavel1 Also great points about combo blockers. I'm starting to understand combos a lot more after your other vids and know I need to get more familiar with the significance of different types of blockers for different situations.
if you do not have fold equity pre flpo you can still squeeze a hand like KQ and if you will get say a open and a cold caller and if you squeeze they both will call but the guys behind will fold you can squeeze a hand like KQs or AJs to increase the chance of winning the pot etc
I'd be interested to learn about how you look at squeezing from the blinds. I suppose a lot of what you cover in this video still applies but I wonder what other considerations you might have. Thanks.
I find a spot to squeeze at 1/2 live about every other hour of play on average. That's with me having a tight image, with only 1 caller in the middle, an opener with a wide range, and holding a hand with good playability.
Hi splitsuit, these videos are really helping me improve my game, and they're excellent for helping someone new learn! My question here has to do with the bet sizing here. say we raise it up to 12, and assuming the blinds fold, the original raiser is getting 2.16 to 1 on a call, or he needs more than 32% equity for it to be a profitable call. Assuming he gives you a fairly snug range of TT+ AQs+ AKo, is it not still profitable for him to call with his entire opening range of 12% equilb says his opening range is 36% against my 3 bet range. Does this mean we have made a mistake, since he is actually profiting from a call?
+masiewpao Yeah so unless a player with a 12% open range is folding to 3bets/squeezes more than he should be (which is very possible) I probably wouldn't be squeezing a player with such a low PFR
Hi, Ed Miller is strictly for consistancy in his ranges. I understand that a bluff is outright profitable if the other(s) fold(s) enough independent of your cards. But doesn't opening 72o damage or even destroy your own ranges? How can it still be good to make preflop bluffs with any two?
+knompf it can still be good...just do some basic math exploration on the spot and see if you could use ATC because villains are folding far too often.
You need to make sure that the money you lose when you get called doesn't outweigh the money you win when everyone folds. If the opponents are likely to fold very often to the squeeze, and you aren't going to spew money postflop, then it can become profitable to squeeze with any two.
So, the question I run into all the time with these videos (being a new player) is 'how do I know what the player has or has been folding with'? At 3:45 you say 'focus on the players who call open raises with set mines or drawing hands but will fold them to the pressure of a squeeze.' This makes sense... if I KNOW what he folded, however, I don't see what they have folded. How do I assume 'this person' folds with this type of hand vs 'that person' who doesn't open with the same range? Everyone keeps saying to 'do this if they do that' but in this game, I rarely see the cards they are 'doing things with'. It seems as though this is a massive amount of supposition based upon a what a person 'should' do. Is this the basis for the Helmuth meltdowns??? When people don't 'follow the rules'?
Poker games go on for a long time - even single day tournaments can be 12 hours of play. So if you pay careful attention to 1 - how often a player is calling/betting/folding and 2 - the hands information you get at showdowns (or random shows) then you can build ranges for them. Take a person that is opens or calls a high percentage of the time pre-flop, but also folds often to a 3 bets. From that you know that they are likely are playing as SplitSuit suggested above. You don't have to play with someone that often for an attentive poker player to get a decent understanding of their playing style. That's why the experts put so much importance of playing a 'balance' game where you might call, bet or fold in exactly the same situation, but making sure you know how often you should be doing each one. As for Helmuth's 'meltdowns' - It's worth considering whether his reactions are entirely spontaneous or whether this image helps him on and off the table . . . .
If you are still wondering. When playing vs players that often raise them selves or 3bet preflop, that suddenly in position take a calling line, you can with a relatively high degree of certainty asign a "setmining" range to them. Even the most agressive of players rarely 3bet with 22-77 or low suited connectors. This doesn't mean they will fold to you raise, there are people out there that setmine out of position. But if you find that out you can exploit that quite often, as they rarely can call multiple streets when you 3 bet vs them.
+The Poker Bank What I meant was should not then try to use this play more often (even if it is slightly negative EV) or are you exposing yourself a little too much at that point?
I'd like to hear your precise definition of the term "fish" please. I've never really heard it used as a basic when discussing strategy before, and I get the feeling that your definition is a bit different than some other people's.... Thanks.
So, what do you do if you are reraised by the initial raiser here? Squeezing on the button is done a lot, and I think an aware player (who definitely has a hand) isn't going to put up with it.... Also, I've heard and read elsewhere that it's better to bluff with junkier hands...IMO KXs on the button 6-handed is a decent hand, and well worth trying to see the flop, isn't it? Why not call instead of turning it into a bluff against an UTG raiser who probably has a big hand?
Countering a Bluff Squeezing Play? Say I open-raise with AJs from middle position, the cut-off calls, and then the button makes a 3-bet, but I am not sure if he is Bluff Squeezing? Could you walk me through the steps of whether or not making a 4-bet would be profitable if I feel that there is a chance this player is solid enough to pull off a Squeeze play (EV, Fold Equity, Range of Hands... etc)?
I have a question me an this guy were playing poker and i had 2 bill he had 2 bill and i won and the guy gets super mad at me and then he said " i spot played you" what does that mean thanks have a great day
Your bluff squeezes will lose you money on average when they get called, because you'll have a very weak hand against what is likely a very strong range. You need to be skilled enough postflop against your opponents that you don't bleed money those times that you do get called. It's important that the amount you lose when you get called doesn't outweigh the amount you win when everyone folds. That's why you should get comfortable with bluff squeezes in position before you start doing it from out of position. It's a lot easier to play hands and control the pot in position. That's also why you don't want to pick any random Ax hand do this with - it's better to have a suited ace with a wheel card because you can pick up flush and straight draws on the flop or turn, allowing for profitable bluffs later in the hand. The ideal hand is probably A5s.
he is correct but the thing i think he left out was if they are guys who will call to much IE a very loose cold caller and the original opener folds to much vs the original opener when he calls you will CB less if at all vs that player, because his range is strong. If the tighter guy who folds a lot folds and the loose caller calls then we should CB a lot more. If we know we will have to see a flop often vs a looser caller it is better to use bigger off suit cards.
Squeezing almost never works in live poker 1/2 or 2/5 games. EVERYONE who called already has money in the middle is calling a 3 or 4x bet. If you're going to squeeze then you better be prepared to bet BIG or shove.
I don't think that's a good strategy. I'm definitely going to 3-bet for value with KK+ and AK when there's a raise and two callers, right? So I should have a bluff range as well.
I also love the point about adding 0.5xBB for each caller. I've recently gotten a tip to try open raising an extra 0.5x-1x for each limper and it's been working wonders compared to how I used to usually max open 3.5x.
+McGavel1 Also great points about combo blockers. I'm starting to understand combos a lot more after your other vids and know I need to get more familiar with the significance of different types of blockers for different situations.
Lol! Do this at 1/3 or 2/5 Live and get 5 callers.
+jgreyorl Yeah I'm in the same boat at my casino. But he did say not to squeeze fish so can't say he didn't warn us haha
Isnt that exploitable? cant you just make it bigger and bluff sqz less?
you cant go larger and sqeeze with a strong range?!
Exactly. If you don't have enough fold equity, bluff squeezing is never really profitable. So you should only squeeze for value.
if you do not have fold equity pre flpo you can still squeeze a hand like KQ and if you will get say a open and a cold caller and if you squeeze they both will call but the guys behind will fold you can squeeze a hand like KQs or AJs to increase the chance of winning the pot etc
seriously thank for all this content, its helping my game a lot!
You are very welcome Nick!
I'd be interested to learn about how you look at squeezing from the blinds. I suppose a lot of what you cover in this video still applies but I wonder what other considerations you might have. Thanks.
I find a spot to squeeze at 1/2 live about every other hour of play on average. That's with me having a tight image, with only 1 caller in the middle, an opener with a wide range, and holding a hand with good playability.
Right.
Great video that put BRM in perspective.
Hi splitsuit, these videos are really helping me improve my game, and they're excellent for helping someone new learn! My question here has to do with the bet sizing here. say we raise it up to 12, and assuming the blinds fold, the original raiser is getting 2.16 to 1 on a call, or he needs more than 32% equity for it to be a profitable call. Assuming he gives you a fairly snug range of TT+ AQs+ AKo, is it not still profitable for him to call with his entire opening range of 12% equilb says his opening range is 36% against my 3 bet range. Does this mean we have made a mistake, since he is actually profiting from a call?
+masiewpao Yeah so unless a player with a 12% open range is folding to 3bets/squeezes more than he should be (which is very possible) I probably wouldn't be squeezing a player with such a low PFR
What about hands you over call with? Any pair and any suited? Can we overcall with weak suited aces? How about AJo and KQo?
If a squeeze isn't best, sure. But most players call too often with hands that could otherwise be squeezed more profitably.
Would you happen to know some preflop planner. Equilab is great but its limitted to only two colors. The light blue and solid blue.
check out Range Manager.
Hi,
Ed Miller is strictly for consistancy in his ranges. I understand that a bluff is outright profitable if the other(s) fold(s) enough independent of your cards. But doesn't opening 72o damage or even destroy your own ranges? How can it still be good to make preflop bluffs with any two?
+knompf it can still be good...just do some basic math exploration on the spot and see if you could use ATC because villains are folding far too often.
You need to make sure that the money you lose when you get called doesn't outweigh the money you win when everyone folds. If the opponents are likely to fold very often to the squeeze, and you aren't going to spew money postflop, then it can become profitable to squeeze with any two.
So, the question I run into all the time with these videos (being a new player) is 'how do I know what the player has or has been folding with'? At 3:45 you say 'focus on the players who call open raises with set mines or drawing hands but will fold them to the pressure of a squeeze.' This makes sense... if I KNOW what he folded, however, I don't see what they have folded. How do I assume 'this person' folds with this type of hand vs 'that person' who doesn't open with the same range? Everyone keeps saying to 'do this if they do that' but in this game, I rarely see the cards they are 'doing things with'. It seems as though this is a massive amount of supposition based upon a what a person 'should' do. Is this the basis for the Helmuth meltdowns??? When people don't 'follow the rules'?
Poker games go on for a long time - even single day tournaments can be 12 hours of play. So if you pay careful attention to 1 - how often a player is calling/betting/folding and 2 - the hands information you get at showdowns (or random shows) then you can build ranges for them. Take a person that is opens or calls a high percentage of the time pre-flop, but also folds often to a 3 bets. From that you know that they are likely are playing as SplitSuit suggested above. You don't have to play with someone that often for an attentive poker player to get a decent understanding of their playing style. That's why the experts put so much importance of playing a 'balance' game where you might call, bet or fold in exactly the same situation, but making sure you know how often you should be doing each one.
As for Helmuth's 'meltdowns' - It's worth considering whether his reactions are entirely spontaneous or whether this image helps him on and off the table . . . .
If you are still wondering. When playing vs players that often raise them selves or 3bet preflop, that suddenly in position take a calling line, you can with a relatively high degree of certainty asign a "setmining" range to them. Even the most agressive of players rarely 3bet with 22-77 or low suited connectors. This doesn't mean they will fold to you raise, there are people out there that setmine out of position. But if you find that out you can exploit that quite often, as they rarely can call multiple streets when you 3 bet vs them.
2018
What about the value of gaining a loose table image and hence profiting when you do have monsters?
+Jubin John there is value in that, for sure.
+The Poker Bank What I meant was should not then try to use this play more often (even if it is slightly negative EV) or are you exposing yourself a little too much at that point?
As long as you switch gears after your image is received. You'll get paid off on your monsters but also get called down lighter when you have air.
Really like that formula...could I use that in other situations? Like when deciding whether or not a bluff is going to be profitable post flop?
Yes you can :)
Dan Harrington play with 62 offsuit at the 2004 WSOP the quintessential example of how to do a bluff squeeze
Cool, thanks!
+McGavel1 I also enjoyed your more in depth vid on this.
I'd like to hear your precise definition of the term "fish" please. I've never really heard it used as a basic when discussing strategy before, and I get the feeling that your definition is a bit different than some other people's.... Thanks.
So, what do you do if you are reraised by the initial raiser here? Squeezing on the button is done a lot, and I think an aware player (who definitely has a hand) isn't going to put up with it....
Also, I've heard and read elsewhere that it's better to bluff with junkier hands...IMO KXs on the button 6-handed is a decent hand, and well worth trying to see the flop, isn't it? Why not call instead of turning it into a bluff against an UTG raiser who probably has a big hand?
Countering a Bluff Squeezing Play? Say I open-raise with AJs from middle position, the cut-off calls, and then the button makes a 3-bet, but I am not sure if he is Bluff Squeezing? Could you walk me through the steps of whether or not making a 4-bet would be profitable if I feel that there is a chance this player is solid enough to pull off a Squeeze play (EV, Fold Equity, Range of Hands... etc)?
Jack Ostendorf Use the concepts of this video but replace '3bet' with '4bet' and redo the BE math: ua-cam.com/video/Mmt-e_9doaE/v-deo.html
I thought it was 3x + 1bb per caller?
That's the typical formula for raising over limpers - not necessarily squeezing.
I have a question me an this guy were playing poker and i had 2 bill he had 2 bill and i won and the guy gets super mad at me and then he said " i spot played you" what does that mean thanks have a great day
I have no idea what that means. Just another angry poker player spewing incoherent words?
but whats the plan after we get calls? now we are cbetting into a bloated pot and our bluffs become more costly.
Your bluff squeezes will lose you money on average when they get called, because you'll have a very weak hand against what is likely a very strong range. You need to be skilled enough postflop against your opponents that you don't bleed money those times that you do get called. It's important that the amount you lose when you get called doesn't outweigh the amount you win when everyone folds.
That's why you should get comfortable with bluff squeezes in position before you start doing it from out of position. It's a lot easier to play hands and control the pot in position. That's also why you don't want to pick any random Ax hand do this with - it's better to have a suited ace with a wheel card because you can pick up flush and straight draws on the flop or turn, allowing for profitable bluffs later in the hand. The ideal hand is probably A5s.
he is correct but the thing i think he left out was if they are guys who will call to much IE a very loose cold caller and the original opener folds to much vs the original opener when he calls you will CB less if at all vs that player, because his range is strong. If the tighter guy who folds a lot folds and the loose caller calls then we should CB a lot more. If we know we will have to see a flop often vs a looser caller it is better to use bigger off suit cards.
oh yeah and don't CB multi way as a bluff
Squeezing almost never works in live poker 1/2 or 2/5 games. EVERYONE who called already has money in the middle is calling a 3 or 4x bet. If you're going to squeeze then you better be prepared to bet BIG or shove.
+kreteman777 then you can squeeze a wider value range :)
You only squeeze when there is one raiser and one caller...So only ever two other people in the pot max.
I don't think that's a good strategy. I'm definitely going to 3-bet for value with KK+ and AK when there's a raise and two callers, right? So I should have a bluff range as well.
2 time
I dunno why I keep squeezing in micros, you can 3bet 10x and you'll get 3-6 callers every time