These videos take a lot of work and time out of my schedule; while I enjoy making them without being paid, it would certainly help if you were generous enough to donate to my channel. www.paypal.me/RyanSpurlock291
Bb weights and volume ratios summed up @03:43 Ratio 1.5 to 1.8 - 1 max weight 0.28gr Ratio 2.0 to 2.2 - 1 max weight 0.32gr Ratio 2.5 - 1 max weight 0.36gr Ratio 2.5+ - 1 max weight above 0.36gr Cheers :)
Instead of measuring the from the o-ring to the bottom of the cylinder head, you can put the cylinder head into the cylinder to wherever its supposed to sit. Then put the bottom of your calipers across the back of the cylinder and extend them. The rod comes out of the bottom of the calipers and will eventually hit the cylinder head. That will give you your cylinder length, but you'll have to subtract the distance to from the back of the cylinder to the front of the port obviously. This will prevent any mismeasurement if the o-ring is sitting low in the cylinder.
Explaining joule creep wouldn't have taken that much longer, but it would have made this a more complete video. Next you need to do a video on joule creep as well as how to build for a certain style of gun. Say a DMR that wants to use .32g BBs. What to change to get a higher cylinder/barrel volume. Otherwise a pretty good video.
A major reason of joules creep phenomenon is actually about wrong cylinder volume. How can you skip it 😂 When a BB is fired down the barrel, it is pushed by the compressed volume of air behind it until the BB leaves the barrel and can no longer accelerate. This process can be understanded as simple momentum theory. In a nut shell, if you are running a system with too much volume (overflow), when you are using heavier bb, the joule output will be higher than light weight bb. If you are running insufficient volume (shortfall), the outcome is reversed. And if you are running a system which cylinder volume is match with barrel length, the joules output should be about the same with different weights of bb. In addition, before the widespread of air cushion inner barrel, if you are running overflow system, it may affect your accuracy when you are using light weight bbs. However with the air cushion inner barrel, a overflow system may benefits the accuracy of all weight of bbs by enhancing the air cushion effect. But you stills need to pay attention to the joules creep. AND IT ALWAYS A BAD IDEA TO RUN A SHORTFALL SYSTEM
When I did this years ago I had my cylinder+head assembled in the box and used the piston+head and lined up the sector gear at the point it would start to move the piston, marked the piston when it was full home and moved it back with the gear till either the o ring was just before the port or when it would be released by the piston if using a type 0 cylinder to get the actual swept/o ring sealed 'height/length' of the cylinder. Was less about joule creep back then and efficiency/making the gun as quiet or loud as you wanted (over volumed short barrel guns with noveskes and 30+ RPS bark worse than they bite).
Solid info, and it's really made me wonder how much performance I'm missing out on in my rifles as they are either undervolumed or overvolumed. The only thing missing is the formula need to calculate the optimal ratio for bb weight. I can find several lists saying which ratio is optimal (which often differs from list to list), but not any mentions on how it's actually calculated and why that ratio is optimal. Non of the lists contain ratio for 0.33g or above 0.45g BB's which ironically are the BB weights I need to calculate for.
I’d just like to see how to incorporate the vent holes sizing and location into calculating this stuff and more on bb weight. I think the bud is great though
Thanks for the awesome info! Aren't there side effects from over-voluming / under-voluming your setup though? Or are the effects negligible compared to the range you gain from over-voluming + heavier bb usage?
Hello, I don't know how actively you respond to comments, but I have a question about BoreUp and I read that you can also convert just the CylinderHead from normal to BoreUp to get a small increase in performance. Is that true? or if I change the normal cylinder head to BoreUp, do I also have to change the nozzle, cylinder and piston head to the bore up version?
Just thinking about it. Would it be more accurate to calculate the volume using the stroke length of the piston as opposed to the entire length of the cylinder? As, from my understanding the cylinder doesn’t necessarily stroke back the full length of the cylinder. Doing this would also eliminate the need for subtracting the length of the cylinder head from the equation.
But now there is a secondary problem, what about longer barrels? Volume ratio per barrels higher in volume for example in a m16a1 which is barrel length is about 50cm is going to be less then cylinders full length. What can we do to avoid internal turbine in the barrel given by longer length?
How does air enter the cylinder after a bb is launched? For a non-ported cylinder, air must enter through the nozzle before a bb enters the chamber. I suppose this is controlled by the tappet plate timing.
The piston head has ports on it and when the piston gets pulled back it unseals and allows air in from behind and seals back up when it gets pushed forward
How do BBs tend to behave if you use too light BBs for a given ration or respectively having a overpowered ratio? (in regards of range, accuracy, flight path maybe...) Good video, TAT!
Could you have a ratio of let’s say 1.7 to 1 but have a heavy spring and then still use heavier BBs? And will lighter BBs go further with a higher ratio?
Awesome thanks very informative, did you make any follow up videos on this? I would like the joule creep info not for airsoft but I want to outshoot my friends with fx pcp air rifles with my cheap kral😂
Great video. I gotta question if ya dint mind given me your time. So i rece tly bought the krytac mk2 spr/pdw bundle and im just wondering how all this works with the same ported cylinder to barrel ratio when the pdw in er barrel is less then half the length of the spr inner barrel? Is the cylinder meant for one more than the other or is it just wrong for both or is it a middle ground that works for both lengths but not ideal for either lol
Hey good sir, which barrel length is better for my build? I’m thinking either a 420mm or a 455mm. Cyma platinum sr25, maxx me pro hopup housing, madbull blue, using the concave hop that is included with the maxx, and a elvish tac rhop patch. Prob shooting around 475 FPS and with a v2.5 gearbox. Along with a full cylinder and will be using 0.4 and above bbs. DEEEE EMMMMM EARRRR Thanks anyways
yes. probably best way is to measure the stroke of the piston from fully forward to fully retracted. Make two marks on the piston in both positions and measure the distance in between.
Strikes me odd these folk seem meticulous in that they are very well informed about AirSoft guns but... how does one get so knowledgeable all the while looking at a system that is so badly engineered. The backstop puts backward spin on a AirSoft BB but should not replace rifling and rifling is badly engineered as well. No need to rifle the entire barrel (at least in a rifle. What indices the most spin in throwing a football is that last little "flick" given by the finger tip right before the release. But current rifling provides one stage rotating and never provides a flick. It is possible the projectile had already been given the most effective spin speed but the projectile starts going down the barrel with no spin (buy for a very short period and length. Then the Riflings are engaged and the projectile enters the riflings... It is not long before all the Riflings do is maintain (with friction) the spin, but the maintenance requires friction that takes away friction. The spiral grooves of rifling need to increase in the last few 1/2" inches (probably 3 times the length of the projectile) to induce a flick and increase the spin. Here we can look at the Buck Stop for proof. Next, the engineering of the valve where the compressed air is introduced it needs re~engineered as the BB being held in a pressurized state allows for leaks or introduced quick, fast and in a hurry causes other problems. No design has been developed well enough not even in a FireArm type setup. So, I bought my first AirSoflt BB Gun about 4 months ago and quickly found these problems which I have full intention on re-engineering. I bought the GFSMG with the round drum. One of the first things I noticed is the round BB and the gun's inability to align an oblong projectile hence the reason Pellets are not for Semi Auto rifles without the amount of ammo and the ease of loading being very restricted. Although I have only a few fixes, I have the prior problems to re-engineer first. (I do figure a drum shaped loader of Pellets held in a plastic plastic tape rolled up inside the drum to probably be the method I will use. We will see. (I guess I need to first build a workable area and start making my own videos. Nice but problematic is that there is so very many topics I have expertise in and they all require my attention. From guns to gun laws, fron Prophecy and what prophecies have been fulfilled to what Prophecies are soon to be fulfilled (my most expert area) Then there is Survival a topic often found in UA-cam but also a topic with the least amount of experts who are merely commercialized sales people selling their brand of junk to videors seeking profit and stuff from spencers and the public. If you buy products you cannot transport (if you have a cart or vehicle, then you can transport more. If you have only one Bug out location or if you think you can protect you and yours at home... in both instances you are utterly wrong. You must have 2 buyout locations with the first being able to sustain you for at least 3 days to a week. This is where you can have stached supplies and equipment. This location needs to be within walking distance of either your home or your work. Buying BugOut land for BugOut Locale #1 is Ok buy for BugOut Locale #2 is not good... why? ~ Records, of course. Even mental records where someone, anyone has made a mental note, of you and the location. Who will be the first ones hit? Those trying to BugOut at home. They merely need penetrated to lose all their equipment and supplies and perhaps their lives. Portland would have been a good example but neighborhoods were not targets. More to come...
The spring delivers the power, the cylinder:barrel ratio delivers the efficiency. A ported cylinder and very long barrel will be inefficient with heavy ammo, a short barrel with a full cylinder will be more efficient with heavier ammo. Basically - it depends upon your barrel length and BB weight
Yes, kind of. Years ago G&P did a series of 'stubby' ARs, like 100mm barrels, shot around 280fps out the box. People started reporting these guns doing 370-400fps because G&P was building these guns with full cylinders and an M110 spring that by bringing a longer barrel into play, you got a B:C ratio that was able to deliver full power to the BB. It's reverse joule creep in a sense, not enough barrel for the BB to reach full energy potential.
6.03 is the diameter, half of 6 is 3 which is the radius. In order to find volume of a cylinder you multiply the length (363) by the radius squared (3 squared = 9) times pie (3.14).
Thank you very much for your short and clear talk. Can I ask you to tell me what kind of ported cylinder would you suggest for a 6.01 mm barrel measuring 28,5 cm in length? Somebody says a type C cylinder, like this one www.fps-softair.com/meccanica-ricambi/cilindri/cilindro-cylinder-airsoft-softair-marui-acciaio-inox-fps-cltc.html, someone else says a type D cylinder, like this one www.fps-softair.com/meccanica-ricambi/cilindri/cilindro-cylinder-airsoft-softair-marui-acciaio-inox-fps-cltd.html. I cannot find the right solution.
Excuse me, friend, what modifications can I make to my krytac lvoa c to make it an effective dmr right now? advise something friend thank you very much I send you a big hug from Cancun
These videos take a lot of work and time out of my schedule; while I enjoy making them without being paid, it would certainly help if you were generous enough to donate to my channel.
www.paypal.me/RyanSpurlock291
Bb weights and volume ratios summed up @03:43
Ratio 1.5 to 1.8 - 1 max weight 0.28gr
Ratio 2.0 to 2.2 - 1 max weight 0.32gr
Ratio 2.5 - 1 max weight 0.36gr
Ratio 2.5+ - 1 max weight above 0.36gr
Cheers :)
thank youuuu
Your legs must hurt from all this carrying you're doing for the community. Great vid as always
Instead of measuring the from the o-ring to the bottom of the cylinder head, you can put the cylinder head into the cylinder to wherever its supposed to sit. Then put the bottom of your calipers across the back of the cylinder and extend them. The rod comes out of the bottom of the calipers and will eventually hit the cylinder head. That will give you your cylinder length, but you'll have to subtract the distance to from the back of the cylinder to the front of the port obviously. This will prevent any mismeasurement if the o-ring is sitting low in the cylinder.
Or push your piston all the way into cylinder and measure the overhang, subtract that from the entire length of the piston, and thats it.
Explaining joule creep wouldn't have taken that much longer, but it would have made this a more complete video.
Next you need to do a video on joule creep as well as how to build for a certain style of gun. Say a DMR that wants to use .32g BBs. What to change to get a higher cylinder/barrel volume.
Otherwise a pretty good video.
ah, desmos scientific calculator, you must be a man of culture
A major reason of joules creep phenomenon is actually about wrong cylinder volume. How can you skip it 😂
When a BB is fired down the barrel, it is pushed by the compressed volume of air behind it until the BB leaves the barrel and can no longer accelerate. This process can be understanded as simple momentum theory. In a nut shell, if you are running a system with too much volume (overflow), when you are using heavier bb, the joule output will be higher than light weight bb. If you are running insufficient volume (shortfall), the outcome is reversed. And if you are running a system which cylinder volume is match with barrel length, the joules output should be about the same with different weights of bb.
In addition, before the widespread of air cushion inner barrel, if you are running overflow system, it may affect your accuracy when you are using light weight bbs. However with the air cushion inner barrel, a overflow system may benefits the accuracy of all weight of bbs by enhancing the air cushion effect. But you stills need to pay attention to the joules creep. AND IT ALWAYS A BAD IDEA TO RUN A SHORTFALL SYSTEM
Gracias me aclaraste el camino ahora se como optimizar mi replica
When I did this years ago I had my cylinder+head assembled in the box and used the piston+head and lined up the sector gear at the point it would start to move the piston, marked the piston when it was full home and moved it back with the gear till either the o ring was just before the port or when it would be released by the piston if using a type 0 cylinder to get the actual swept/o ring sealed 'height/length' of the cylinder.
Was less about joule creep back then and efficiency/making the gun as quiet or loud as you wanted (over volumed short barrel guns with noveskes and 30+ RPS bark worse than they bite).
That's definitely a more precise way to do it. I measured the exact same way on a buddy's build just the other day.
True men of science 🤓😎
Please make a joul creep video if possible. And thank you for your content, always insightfull
Solid info, and it's really made me wonder how much performance I'm missing out on in my rifles as they are either undervolumed or overvolumed.
The only thing missing is the formula need to calculate the optimal ratio for bb weight. I can find several lists saying which ratio is optimal (which often differs from list to list), but not any mentions on how it's actually calculated and why that ratio is optimal. Non of the lists contain ratio for 0.33g or above 0.45g BB's which ironically are the BB weights I need to calculate for.
I’d just like to see how to incorporate the vent holes sizing and location into calculating this stuff and more on bb weight. I think the bud is great though
Also the heavier weight bbs keep their velocity better and dissipate it energy slower
Is that a panda tsg patch I see? A man of culture
Yes it is
@@raymondiscool1 mhm
Thanks for the awesome info! Aren't there side effects from over-voluming / under-voluming your setup though? Or are the effects negligible compared to the range you gain from over-voluming + heavier bb usage?
Specifying the pressure that volume is being measured at is completely redundant
Excellent video, Thanks a lot!!
Anybody know what the krytac vectors stock volume ratio is offhand?
Is there any information about pressure in PSI, which occurs in this kind of cylinder and pushes BBs forward?
isntead of manuay calculating it, i fill it with water and transfer it.
where is the joule creep vid?
I'm sorry but saying .28 is the heaviest BB you should run is absolute cap
Hello, I don't know how actively you respond to comments, but I have a question about BoreUp and I read that you can also convert just the CylinderHead from normal to BoreUp to get a small increase in performance. Is that true?
or if I change the normal cylinder head to BoreUp, do I also have to change the nozzle, cylinder and piston head to the bore up version?
Just thinking about it. Would it be more accurate to calculate the volume using the stroke length of the piston as opposed to the entire length of the cylinder? As, from my understanding the cylinder doesn’t necessarily stroke back the full length of the cylinder. Doing this would also eliminate the need for subtracting the length of the cylinder head from the equation.
But now there is a secondary problem, what about longer barrels? Volume ratio per barrels higher in volume for example in a m16a1 which is barrel length is about 50cm is going to be less then cylinders full length. What can we do to avoid internal turbine in the barrel given by longer length?
could you post the link to the calculator you have used?
How does air enter the cylinder after a bb is launched? For a non-ported cylinder, air must enter through the nozzle before a bb enters the chamber. I suppose this is controlled by the tappet plate timing.
The piston head has ports on it and when the piston gets pulled back it unseals and allows air in from behind and seals back up when it gets pushed forward
@@sjcvideos747 Thanks. Makes sense.
How do BBs tend to behave if you use too light BBs for a given ration or respectively having a overpowered ratio?
(in regards of range, accuracy, flight path maybe...)
Good video, TAT!
Could you have a ratio of let’s say 1.7 to 1 but have a heavy spring and then still use heavier BBs? And will lighter BBs go further with a higher ratio?
Can you or did someone make a video on how to properly tune an hpa system the the length barrel and desired set up on the gun?
Awesome thanks very informative, did you make any follow up videos on this? I would like the joule creep info not for airsoft but I want to outshoot my friends with fx pcp air rifles with my cheap kral😂
how did you get the radius of the barrel sorry I cant follow all the calculations
this tutorial is what im waiting for
Very helpful video!
Great video. I gotta question if ya dint mind given me your time. So i rece tly bought the krytac mk2 spr/pdw bundle and im just wondering how all this works with the same ported cylinder to barrel ratio when the pdw in er barrel is less then half the length of the spr inner barrel? Is the cylinder meant for one more than the other or is it just wrong for both or is it a middle ground that works for both lengths but not ideal for either lol
is it okay if i use a one port cilinder with a 363mm barrel and i use 0.25g bbs
Hey good sir, which barrel length is better for my build? I’m thinking either a 420mm or a 455mm. Cyma platinum sr25, maxx me pro hopup housing, madbull blue, using the concave hop that is included with the maxx, and a elvish tac rhop patch. Prob shooting around 475 FPS and with a v2.5 gearbox. Along with a full cylinder and will be using 0.4 and above bbs. DEEEE EMMMMM EARRRR
Thanks anyways
Would all this be based around a stock spring M100??
So by this logic, would you not want the barrel to be as short as possible in order to increase the ratio? Or am I misunderstanding?
Only if you are going to be using heavier bb’s. But yes, you are thinking correctly.
mate i wish i could come hang out and learn some skills you have but i live in australia lol
Incorrect measurement, cause piston head have dead zone in front of O-ring.
I thick .32's and .36's Shoot further and more accurately than .28's
After i switched to .32s i never looked backed at .28s It might use more hop but certainly more accurate and consistent than a .28s
.32s are where it's at
Thanks for this video.
so youre actually better off with a shorter barrel relative to cylinder for the heavier bbs then?
I would think yes.
with afull cylinder dont you need to subtract the amount that the piston sits inside it too?
yes. probably best way is to measure the stroke of the piston from fully forward to fully retracted. Make two marks on the piston in both positions and measure the distance in between.
Strikes me odd these folk seem meticulous in that they are very well informed about AirSoft guns but... how does one get so knowledgeable all the while looking at a system that is so badly engineered. The backstop puts backward spin on a AirSoft BB but should not replace rifling and rifling is badly engineered as well. No need to rifle the entire barrel (at least in a rifle. What indices the most spin in throwing a football is that last little "flick" given by the finger tip right before the release. But current rifling provides one stage rotating and never provides a flick. It is possible the projectile had already been given the most effective spin speed but the projectile starts going down the barrel with no spin (buy for a very short period and length. Then the Riflings are engaged and the projectile enters the riflings... It is not long before all the Riflings do is maintain (with friction) the spin, but the maintenance requires friction that takes away friction. The spiral grooves of rifling need to increase in the last few 1/2" inches (probably 3 times the length of the projectile) to induce a flick and increase the spin. Here we can look at the Buck Stop for proof.
Next, the engineering of the valve where the compressed air is introduced it needs re~engineered as the BB being held in a pressurized state allows for leaks or introduced quick, fast and in a hurry causes other problems. No design has been developed well enough not even in a FireArm type setup. So, I bought my first AirSoflt BB Gun about 4 months ago and quickly found these problems which I have full intention on re-engineering. I bought the GFSMG with the round drum. One of the first things I noticed is the round BB and the gun's inability to align an oblong projectile hence the reason Pellets are not for Semi Auto rifles without the amount of ammo and the ease of loading being very restricted. Although I have only a few fixes, I have the prior problems to re-engineer first. (I do figure a drum shaped loader of Pellets held in a plastic plastic tape rolled up inside the drum to probably be the method I will use. We will see. (I guess I need to first build a workable area and start making my own videos. Nice but problematic is that there is so very many topics I have expertise in and they all require my attention. From guns to gun laws, fron Prophecy and what prophecies have been fulfilled to what Prophecies are soon to be fulfilled (my most expert area)
Then there is Survival a topic often found in UA-cam but also a topic with the least amount of experts who are merely commercialized sales people selling their brand of junk to videors seeking profit and stuff from spencers and the public. If you buy products you cannot transport (if you have a cart or vehicle, then you can transport more. If you have only one Bug out location or if you think you can protect you and yours at home... in both instances you are utterly wrong. You must have 2 buyout locations with the first being able to sustain you for at least 3 days to a week. This is where you can have stached supplies and equipment. This location needs to be within walking distance of either your home or your work. Buying BugOut land for BugOut Locale #1 is Ok buy for BugOut Locale #2 is not good... why? ~ Records, of course. Even mental records where someone, anyone has made a mental note, of you and the location. Who will be the first ones hit? Those trying to BugOut at home. They merely need penetrated to lose all their equipment and supplies and perhaps their lives. Portland would have been a good example but neighborhoods were not targets. More to come...
Super dope video! Question does the cylunder volume affect on fps? 1/4 cylinder with m120 and full cylinder with m120 is the same result of FPS?
The spring delivers the power, the cylinder:barrel ratio delivers the efficiency.
A ported cylinder and very long barrel will be inefficient with heavy ammo, a short barrel with a full cylinder will be more efficient with heavier ammo.
Basically - it depends upon your barrel length and BB weight
Yes, kind of.
Years ago G&P did a series of 'stubby' ARs, like 100mm barrels, shot around 280fps out the box.
People started reporting these guns doing 370-400fps because G&P was building these guns with full cylinders and an M110 spring that by bringing a longer barrel into play, you got a B:C ratio that was able to deliver full power to the BB.
It's reverse joule creep in a sense, not enough barrel for the BB to reach full energy potential.
@@NM-wd7kx super appreciate ! Thank you martin!
@@AidanMyne thank you aidan!
On a barrel that is a 6.03 barrel you said 3mm?
6.03 is the diameter, half of 6 is 3 which is the radius. In order to find volume of a cylinder you multiply the length (363) by the radius squared (3 squared = 9) times pie (3.14).
This is basic geometry bruv
I used to play a game, every time he say volume ratio i drink a shot... I woke up now from 10/24 LOL.. I'm just joking the video is perfect!!!
In my build i have 2.5/1 1.5J and 0.32g bbs. Range is 70-72m
what barrel lenght?
@@DeltaLimaBR 363mm and windowless cylinder
Thank you very much for your short and clear talk. Can I ask you to tell me what kind of ported cylinder would you suggest for a 6.01 mm barrel measuring 28,5 cm in length? Somebody says a type C cylinder, like this one www.fps-softair.com/meccanica-ricambi/cilindri/cilindro-cylinder-airsoft-softair-marui-acciaio-inox-fps-cltc.html, someone else says a type D cylinder, like this one www.fps-softair.com/meccanica-ricambi/cilindri/cilindro-cylinder-airsoft-softair-marui-acciaio-inox-fps-cltd.html. I cannot find the right solution.
Why did you take the measurement of the radius then cut it in half?
Unless I've missed it, he halved the diametre to get the radius
@@NM-wd7kx ah ok I see hahah I looked it up too it makes sense to me now 😅
Next day off is tech day!
Half of diameter = radius 😜
Excuse me, friend, what modifications can I make to my krytac lvoa c to make it an effective dmr right now? advise something friend thank you very much I send you a big hug from Cancun
400 vs full cylinder =1.71 ☺😊😀😁😂5 Smile's i must admit that I cheated and used the airsoft calculator.....and i really like my ACR
AEGs are officially the worst just by the number of tutorials you have to watch to set up a rif