Poor Man's Hammond M3 Foldback
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- This video shows how to add foldback for the highest drawbar tones on the upper 18 keys. The wires are already present and no additional parts are needed....(hence the name "Poor Man's" ). Gives much more accent to the upper keys, especially through a Leslie. You'll need basic tools, a soldering gun, and LOTS of patience.
This is a video version of my original 1999 written instructions which are posted on HammondWiki.
Have a look at several of my other videos dealing with Hammonds organs and Leslie speakers.....and ENJOY!
At least ! A clear and complete video about this delicate mod. And you didn't forget to make it atractive. Thanks and congratulations.
The discussions with this give a lot of BONUS information..like how to ZAP the M-3 and get dendrites handled.
So glad I could share this information and that it worked out well for you!
Best Wishes, Steve
would this also work on a hammond M? Not a m2 or m3, the plain ol' M? Seems to me like it would?
Looks like a fun project. I got an M3 for free and had a technician get working again ($$$). They are great little organs but do leave something to be desired in the high range from the factory. I'm looking forward to this mod. Thanks for the video!
Wow the best foldback vid of all time nice and clean clear instructions I’m gonna dive in to my m-102 often wondered if it’s possible to change the preamp tubes w/ some hotter tubes with out a fire
A really wonderful and useful video you have made. Thank you.
Awesome video, thanks, your method looms a lot easier than another video I saw where he was going from underneath somehow
Getting at this today. Thanks for the super informative video! Having a little trouble soldering in such a tight space but that's my only issue so far.
How did you get on with it?
Did it successfully with a bit of back pain and some uncomfortable positions. I think its possible to lift the manuals out higher than I got them.
What a killer sound after the mod. Looking at an M-3 this weekend. !!
No, I always had the organ turned off and unplugged when soldering. I only powered it up for the occasional test to make sure the connections were correct. Remember, when the organ is plugged in, the wires on the back of the Start/Run switches and the tone generator terminal are hot, even with the organ turned off.
Thanks so much for putting this together! Someone offered me an M3 recently and I’m trying to figure out if it’d be worth getting, as I’m going to have to wait to get a B3/C3/A100 until I’m in a larger space. Trying to see if it’d be worth having in the mean time, and looking at poorman’s foldback vs. those foldback kits that are available. I love soldering and tedious work like this so it seems doable.
The m3 will/could provide parts for a "better" organ once you get there.
Hammond did a great job of using the same parts everywhere.
A good M3 can revive a bad b3 pretty easily.
One rule, use only Hammond oil for the first 4-6 weeks. If that fails, try wd-40, then Hammond oil.
I thought I would be cute with singer oil once.
Nah.
super like thank you for your time putting that all together
Oh man that is a serious bummer - but I am SO glad I'm not finding out the hard way! Hopefully I'll come up with something equally poor-man-friendly; If so I'll let ya know. Thanks for getting back to me!
For future viewer reference:
Manuals for most Hammond stuff is available on archive.org
Also, remember that tube voltage can kill! Be safe and keep groovin'
holy crap !! why did it take so long to find this video !! i have been trying to do this mod forever THANKS BRO !!! now i get it
Recently discovered your videos and you have gained a subscriber! I'm no tech, but I recently acquired a free L102 and I am interested in maintenance and perhaps having it modded. Noooooot sure if I'm confident enough to do it myself, which means I probably shouldn't! lol
Hey, thanks to your video I successfully did the Poor Mans Foldback. It's awesome! Thank you!
Found this video through the HammondWiki. Thank you Seve for providing such a clear, concise, and informative video. I'm picking up an M-101 tomorrow and will definitely have to do this mod. Anything I need to beware of on the M101 vs the M3?
Even more compelling, the organist seems to have tossed the main theme from Zappa's 'Peaches en Regalia' into the Thompson song at 1:20. Clever, obscure, and highly enjoyable.
Michael Schatte, the main tune pkayung in the background sounds like "When The Spell Is Broken" by Richard Thompson!
Thanks A LOT. Not ehough people like you !
Incredible video, and amazingly generous of Drawbars888 to post this for the public benefit. Adding an additional layer of icing to the cake and demonstrating his impeccable musical taste, the creator has utilized an instrumental organ version of Richard Thompson's imperishable 'When the Spell is Broken' beginning at 0:31. Fantastic!
Thanks for the kind words, Michael. This version of instrumental version of "When the Spell is Broken" is from Al Kooper's album "ReKooperation". Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks! Im doing this with a M3 in Costa Rica
Nobody seems to have noticed, but the accompanying instrumental tune sounds like When the Spell Is Broken by Richard Thompson!
You got that right....thanks for noticing and enjoying!
drawbars888, I have been a huge Richard Thompson fan for well over 30 years and seen him play a number of times. back in the late 80s early 90s when he was still touring with a large band regularly, I never saw him with an actual keyboard player in the band except if you count John Kirkpatrick who played accordion and looked very much like Keith Richards brother. Kirkpatrick's accordion played everything that you would normally expect to hear from a keyboard, and it worked really well in the context of a large band with two guitarists and some horns, although you can't get a Leslie sound out of one, at least I've never heard anybody do it or even try! For what it's worth I'm an amplifier and hifi repair tech, and an amateur guitar player, not a keyboard player; but I am and have always been fascinated by weird electromechanical devices and unusual musical instruments and so a Hammond Organ and Leslie speaker really push my buttons, both musically and from the mechanical weirdness standpoint.
Awesome. I'm getting an M3 tomorrow. You wanna come over to my house :-)
2:03 is when I decide to call someone. Once those wires were cut. I never learned how to solder anything. Electrical things, well, I'm not really afraid of them. Let's just say I respect them too much to want to mess with them. Got shocked by a washer machine. Enough for me. I'm getting ready to score a brand new 60 something year old M3. It does not have the 1/4 jack added. I have to pay someone for that. SoCal
This is great, I will be making this change! Also, can you provide any info on Zapping my M3 percussion? I’m convinced that I have a dendrite problem which is holding my K terminal to 0V.. I just need to know where to zap....what point on the organ to zap. Maybe a photo or two? Thanks and kind regards!
Yes, I made a video for flashing the vibrato scanner... here it is:
ua-cam.com/video/LRoK3eNc5pk/v-deo.html
@@drawbars888 WOW, Great. I have been searching..for so long!
@drawbars888 I'm currently working on this. I've run into a problem where my multimeter isn't picking up any continuity from any of these wires. I tested the multimeter and it does work right. I have the drawbar at 8 with percussion off and I've tried holding keys and matching wires but I can't get anything. I'd hate to leave my organ apart for long. Do you have any ideas or advice?
I was having the same problem with my multimeter. It wasn't reading continuity (short circuit) in Ohms.The fix is to set the Ohms scale to K-Ohms... hope that helps
Damn!!! Genius!! Would this mod work with a Hammond M-111?
Having a lot of trouble getting the manual cover off, they really didn’t make those things to be taken apart!
Wow. I got all the way to the step before cutting the 18 tiny white wires. There's just so little room to work from underneath!
I guess you have more room putting it up on the dollies. I think these are pretty much required. Or at least put it up on blocks.
Hmmmmmm. ..
Make sure you tilt the keyboards up to give you more room. Work from whatever angle is best for you. You can even tip the organ on its left end, just make sure the tone generator is locked down, first.
Hi Packy- Unfortunately, the M101 is a different animal and you can't use this process. I found out the hard way..there were only about 12 wires to use and even when I connected them like on the M3, the tones where random....very strange beast. I haven't figure that one out yet...try to do some online searches. Good Luck! Steve
you realize these are not regular "wires," but rather resistance wires, right? they vary in resistance based on the length of the wire. that's why the same pitch has a different volume depending on where it's located on the keyboard, even though it comes from the same tone wheel.
@@chieftp Mm.
Amazing!
Great video. Did you do all the soldering while the organ was powered on?
It’s really quiet on mine. Yours seems louder. Any suggestions?
can the external speaker cabinet be added like a B3
the foldback sounds a lot better by the way.
hello Im working on modifying an M3 my self and your video has been helpful, thanks. Im also planing on lowering the bottom manual the octave for left hand bass playing but Im curious if it is possible to add another octave of keys to the lower manual making it 56 keys so as to get the higher octave given up, back? what are you thoughts?
+Daniel Nonweiler Not really feasible. Find yourself an E100...they have full 5-octave manuals, great bass and are usually very inexpensive, if not free. I consider them the "Poor Man's A100".... ;-)
And cheers to the hound ;-)
The soldering seems impossible from this angle. The wires have to be handled with tweezers and there's no way to hold them in place. I can't wrap them around the posts, and there's no way to secure them for soldering.
I see from the video that it can be done, but I just don't know how you did it. Any clues on the soldering technique would help future viewers.
Yes, the soldering is a little tricky, if you're not used to fine soldering. I first melted a small dab of solder onto the terminal and let it cool. Then I used a pair of bent-nose pliers to hold the wire against the dab, while re-melting the dab of solder. Then gently push the wire into the melted solder until it's held in place.
Can I do this to an M2?
I have the same issue with my td3 here in México is hard to find people who knows how to do it... btw some notes did not catch the percussion sound is it the same kind of issue?
Don't know what a "td3" is...sorry.
Great video. One question. I just bought an M2 that has been modded to be an M3 (percussion, amp, etc....) Do you happen to know if the process of adding the foldback is the same? And from your video I'm guessing that I don't have to buy the expensive foldback kits for sale on Ebay, etc.... Thanks again for posting this.
I've never worked on an M2, but I did a quick search on the inter-web and apparently, the M2 does not have the extra wires that the M3 has. So you might be out of luck. Keep in mind, this "Poorman's Foldback" for the M3 only adds tones for the HIGHEST drawbar. The kits sold on ebay add foldback for ALL the drawbars. Without knowing how your M2 was modded, I'm guessing they used a lower drawbar to trigger the percussion. Hope this helps.
drawbars888 Thanks so much. Your response was very helpful.
I am doing the the upper foldback mod on an M3, and have a question.
I have the first 6 (right to left) wires rung out and soldered in place. The next 6 solder lugs are supposed to get two wires each, but I am only detecting one with my meter. What am I doing wrong? How do I ring out the remaining 6 wires?
Hi PWB87- To find the wires for Lug 7, hold down the HIGHEST C key and find it's wire, then hold down the C key one octave lower (second from the highest C) and find it's wire. Solder both to Lug 7. Lug 8 will connect to highest B and second highest B wires, Lug 9 to highest Bb and second highest Bb wires, etc. Hope this answers your question. Drawbars888
drawbars888
Yes! Thank you!
so what is done with the ground wires you don't use. Do you re-solder back to the ground terminal
There should not be any extra wires that go to ground. All wires should be attached to a key treminal. Some terminals get 2 wires per the chart.
Great video! Thanks! I have three quick questions: 1) How exactly do you unbolt the pedal drawbar can? In your video, you only show a slide, 2) My back cover does not resemble yours as mine has a bunch of electronics attached to it. How do I remove the back cover without damaging the attached electronics?, 3)I've read a few reports of people doing the mod and accidentally damaging the top key contact and that sounds worrisome. Any idea of how that might happen so I don't accidentally make the same mistake? Thanks again for the video.
Hi Amy. 1) You just want to disconnect the pedal can from the wooden case of the organ so you can raise the manuals. I think there's 1 or 2 wood screw that hold the guide in place. 2) Don't know about the additional electronics on your back cover.....do you have an M3? This mod won't work with an L100 or any other Hammond. 3) Never heard of damaging the top key contact, sorry.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's a M3. I notice by looking on pictures online that some M3s have the same electronics attached to the back as mine (the other poor man's foldback video on youtube has the same thing mine has). I believe it's attached to the Chorus or Vibrato? Not sure. Did you entirely remove your back cover (unscrew the whole thing)? Because at 1:34 in your video, I notice its still in the frame despite being unscrewed. Wondering if maybe I don't have to entirely remove mine and can leave the electronics untouched.
I think your organ has the "preset option"....which allows you to select pre-set drawbar settings from a dial on the lower right check block...Correct?
...and you're correct, you don't need to completely remove the back from the organ. Just remove all the screws so the back is separated from the manuals. This allows you to gain access to the underside of the top manuals when you tip them up. The underside is where the wires are that you need to modify...from the front side of the organ. Hope this helps.
What was the multimeter set to? I'm trying to get this mod done before the end of April.
Josh York Set it to "Beep" mode, so it beeps when you have continuity. Then you know you have the correct wire for each key.
Hello, two more questions, what was the multi meter set to and did you have the organ on while finding wires? Thanks
I have the same question...
The multimeter is just set to BEEP if there is a closed contact.... organ should be OFF when doing this. You are just trying to match up each wire with the key that is pressed down then solder to the corresponding terminal per the chart.
@@drawbars888 1 k ohm range on your meter and it will work
Have a Hammond M100 series since the 60's or so. Was last oiled 1980"s. Has not been played since. Has been moved around a lot. I want to sell it now, but don.t have any sound. I bought the Hammond oil 3 days ago, inserted it, waited a day before turning in on. It starts and runs, but no sound. What to do now short of hiring a repair pro? Much obliged for a reply.
mary donohue are all the vacuum tubes present in the amp? Look in the back of the Organ . Do they light up when you turn Oregon on?
Did you press the drawbar tab down and pull out some drawbars? Have you operated this organ your self before?
drawbars888, thanks for your reply. I,ve got sound now, but took the back off to see what's going on. I think most of the tubes are lit, but can't tell if the incased 3 tubes are lit.
also, they are very hot to the touch. 2 of the incased ones crackle to the touch which causes some loud vibration. I don't play. We bought this for our children when they were young.
there is a smaller chassis to the right that has 3 tubes. None of these light.
don't know what this is for and can't find anything on the Net about this.Also, some of the presets sick and hard to press down. Is there any lube to help on this? I'm not prevy to all of this. Can you help? Thanks so much.
drawbars888 I have replied to you. However, I think I replied to the wrong sequence conversation.. Would you be able to view the conversation above? If not, I can resend. Thanks for your time.
Hi! Great video! I'm also trying to do the Foldback mod on my M3. I've got the multimeter connected tot the drawbar and nothing happens if i touch the 18 wires one by one and press a key. The Multimeter is set to Ohms. What am I doing wrong? Greets from the Netherlands!
+Sander van Wonderen Set it to "Beep" mode, so it beeps when you have continuity. Then you know you have the correct wire for each key. There should be no resistance, that's why setting it to Ohms will NOT give you a reading. Hope this helps!
+drawbars888 Ahh! My multimeter doesn't have a beep function.
+Sander van Wonderen As a last resort, you could do it with the organ running, then listen for a tone....but be very careful working near the a/c power connections, like that start/run switch. .....!
Hi, thanks! I've got it up and running!! Great Video BTW
thanks for the video. i've done the mod, it works, but only with percussion set to off. is that right? also, i damaged the highest C by pressing it to hard, now it's on permanently. have to figure out a way to fix that.
Yes, percussion must be off for this mod to work, because, when on, the percussion uses the highest drawbar contacts. This is typical of all M3's, B3's, C3's and A100's. If you listen to "Evil Ways" by Santana, at the beginning of the organ solo, he turns on the percussion and it kills the highest drawbar tone.
Of course, you can do another mod to use the 2nd from highest drawbar instead for percussion...but that's another story....
drawbars888 how about that story ? i have been looking on the forum - you make it simple to understand . i know you can lower the bottom man. but can you still add the fb ie; highest draw on the bottom as well ?
So percussion works at all times, but if you turn it on you lose the foldback mod from highest drawbar? I've seen another video where it appears to be no issues, what are are the differences here? ref: ua-cam.com/video/rfSn0BtSYzI/v-deo.html at 2:44
are th e 18 wire underneath the first shield you removed?
You access the 18 wires from the FRONT of the organ, just above the start/run switch. You need to remove the right wooden check block for easy access. Start at 1:51 into the video.
Would this work on an L-122?
It sounds amazing
+Aye Pee No, that's a different animal..
ok thanks anyway
+Aye Pee ...You can only do Poorman's Foldback on the busbar which is A: Full length and B: used to activate the percussion.
On the L100 this is the 6th overtone (1-1/3' drawbar). All the other busbars are either fully wired or not full length.
If you wanted 1' foldback you would have to remove the manual, replace the 1' busbar with a full length busbar and add the missing key contacts.
wish the inside of my M3 look like that I have one ground wire
1>0
does this also apply to a l100 hammond or is it just the m3?
+Darren iii No, that's a different animal..
+drawbars888 is there a way it could be done does anyone to a hammond l-100 as iam missing the same 18 keys. just curious if there is a way. Cheers
+Darren iii Please see my previous reply.....
I've got a chopped & modded Hammond T-243. The percussion, tone filters & key click were all modded to sound more M or B like before I even bought it, but no foldback. Would this same mod work on that organ?
+Mike Kiker No, the T series is a different animal. Just keep an eye out for a classic M3...they are everywhere..and cheap. Best
I have the tools, the time , but the nerve to attempt?