Should You Buy a Honda S2000 Over a New BRZ or GR86?
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- Now that I've had plenty of seat time in both, it's time to revisit the question - is it worth it to buy an old Honda S2000 over a new Subaru BRZ / Toyota GR86?
/ zygrene - Авто та транспорт
Just got my 2023 GR86! Couldn’t be happier, after owning 4 S2000’s in my lifetime, and being a bit older now the GR86 was the perfect choice for me.
I have one allocated to me. I've never bought a new car so I'm nervous but these used cars are crazy expensive
@@NoModsCoyote If you’re able to walkout paying MSRP you’ll be good.
@A fan of Joey The GR86 is great for what it is, but I would love to have an S2000 again. It’s such a special little car!! It would just have to be my weekend or track car only. I can’t daily an S2000 again.
How are you liking it one year later, if you still have it? I'm thinking about getting a tS, myself. I've owned my 06 STi for 16 years and I'm ready for something new.. I will be keeping the STi forever, so I'm wondering if the BRZ would be enough, for me. I've been leaning towards a V8..
You should buy a legendary Honda S2000 if and only if it is at a used price reasonable for a 20+ year old car launched in 1999. Two decades of rust, disrepair, torture, and abuse from negligent owners that are disgusting 20 year old boys/“men” don’t just magically disappear and needs to be factored in.
If the prices are unreasonable, then you should have little hesitation buying a brand new Toyota GR86, Subaru BRZ, or Mazda MX-5 Miata at MSRP instead. Greedy Dealerships that charge customers mark ups over MSRP deserve to go bankrupt and fail.
Not long ago 2018ish I'd see them for under 10k all day. Especially ap1 and blue ap1 going for 5k, ap2 200k miles 6k presine, fully built track ones 9k. Unfortunately stupid flu ruined everything for us seriously F 2020
Agreed
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks don't remember seeing any good examples under $10k.
yep i gave up on the s2k
Yes, made in 1999 and most modern cars can’t even compare. Not even the new Miata or GR86. That’s how great it is, that’s what everyone is now barely realizing, and that’s why the price is what it is.
I'm an older guy who loves the S2000. My S2K serves as a 2nd car to be enjoyed top-down during nice weather on the backroads. I can live with the car's faults, but I'm used to riding motorcycles (the S2K is fairly comfortable and quiet by comparison). Essentially, I love roadsters and the S2k is a doozy (I'd never put a hard top on mine).
All that said, those who can only swing one car are inevitably going to need to make some compromises, especially if that car is going to serve as their commuter. I personally wouldn't choose a S2000 for this task. While the GR86/BRZ makes a lot of sense , I don't know that I'd buy one of these cars until they have managed to truly prove themselves over a longer period of time. The sort of problems that you mentioned with the GR86/BRZ are surprising, but not as surprising as the way they were handled (or not handled as the case may be).
That the S2000 remains a benchmark all these years later says a lot about not only how well the car drives, but how well it has lasted. In reality, the S2000 is a pretty straightforward and simple car when compared to the cars of today, or even when compared to a number of its contemporaries for that matter.
Excellent review! Thank you. Will hold onto my AP1 until I cannot get out of it. Owner since May 2000.
There will never be another car like a S2000. It checks every box. The reliability is unmatched in any car produced nowadays. Now is it a good daily, probably not. There is a reason they are appreciating so rapidly. Finding a clean example is getting harder everyday. Oh and the looks are timeless.
except when the new s2000 comes out
@@Linclonable it’ll be electric 🤮
Good to see you driving around my home town of Pleasanton. Agreed, the S2000 is not something I enjoy daily driving, however, if go for more than a few days without driving it, I start to miss it a lot.
yea, there is no amount of mods you can do to an 86 to make struts handle like double wishbone suspension... also s2k are designed to live at redline for as long as you want 86 is not.
Completely nailed the comparison! After owning both platforms I couldn’t agree more. Currently on my third S2K as a track/weekend car and a new Frontier as my daily/S2K tow vehicle
Can’t wait for your next comparison with the E36 and RX8! Those are hands down two of my all-time favorite driver’s car 🤩
I’m honestly just astounded how fast I click on this video even though it’s like the 2nd or 3rd time you’ve done it. LOL I always love the true open minded perspective you give though!
Would love to see the S2000 ranking system video! That's a great idea
Brilliant comparison. I have been cross shopping the GR86 against the S2000 and am 6'1".
Happy New Year.
I think for those wanting a S2k, they will find that you can't really get the one you want because they are older and becoming more rare. So naturally the gr86 would be the next choice in terms of affordability, practicality, and availability
Great video and very well explained. I have a Tundra TRD Pro as a DD so don't need the GR or BRZ so S2k is my pick.
More and more I see people comparing the legendary s2000 which is now over 20 years old, and it STILL outperforms even today’s cars in terms of power, reliability, handling, aesthetics, balance, and pure raw driving experience. Mr. Spoon said it himself in his type One video: the Type R and S2000 are TRUE sports cars, while the FRS/BRZ cars are “sporty” type cars, but not real sports cars. It would take ten times the amount of money to get a FRS to perform at the same high level performance as the s2000. With that being said, I have reconditioned my own s2000, and is a wonderful daily driver. It has all the creature comforts- power windows, air conditioning, power steering (one of the best steering systems ever) and that shifter! I love commuting and driving my s2000 every day I get behind the wheel. To me, it just would seem like a downgrade for me to get a GR86/FRS in almost every aspect of the driving experience. A worse handling less powerful and not as good looking car. I guess you could say I’m spoiled by owning the most gorgeous looking Honda roadster ever made. You know the s2000 is a legend when everything is compared to it. Still. 20 years later and it still outperforms new cars. Long live the legend, the King: Honda S2000 👑
Man, that diff really does go bang bang! Awesome content!
Thanks for doing this video, I put 100k on my 03 AP1, it was a great car to drive. Been looking at these GR86 to kind of recycle the experience.
I'm excited for the s2k series it would be amazing to watch
Love this comparison, one of my dream cars is to own a yellow S2k! noticed that you drove around the Pleasanton area? haha looks like it!
I agree, daily driving/commuting, I wouldn't use mine for it. My preference for my car is the same as when I was riding sportbikes, pretty much dedicated to the track while I have my daily to do typical stuff. For me it's more enjoyable and less of a buzz kill when I separate these vehicles for their intended purpose.
Had to watch this again. Might pull the trigger on an S2k tomorrow sight unseen
Agree! As the only car and all around daily, GR86 for sure. Although I would wait until the next model year when hopefully the bad batch with excessive RTVs have been identified and isolated. For a second weekend/track car for the most thrills, superb engine and arguably the best manual transmission in the world, S2000 all day! Looking forward to more S2000 videos Fenton. There is always a reason to compare a new car to, or bring up, the S2000!
they never fixed the old one, they will never fix the new one either
This is a great video because I am asking myself this same question as I contemplate buying the Special Edition 86. I am leaning toward the S2000.
S2000. You will be it regret it. The s2000 outperforms the GR86 in every way....power, handling, looks, and still has all the comforts of a nice daily driver. Been daily driving mine since 2015. It has power everything, leather seats, air conditioning, power mirrors, and the best driving feel and experience anyone could ask for. I mean, what do people want out of a daily driver anyways? 🤷🏻♂️
Currently shopping around the gr86/BRZ but just found out there’s a silicone issue found in the pick up line and dip stick that will ultimately blow the engine. Hope they’ll have a recall soon. Stay safe y’all
BMW 228i RWD with M Sport Package was something that fit my search and I'm quite happy with it considering I'm older now ;). I'll always love the s2k for the raw thrilling experience it provided but the daily driver comforts of the BMW is on another level. Cheers!
I'm in my 30s and bought my S2K in March of last year as a daily driver. I have other more comfortable and more fuel efficient vehicles but for me the enjoyment I get out of driving the car outweighs the cons. If I need to buy or haul something big I plan ahead and drive my Silverado or my Accord but just to and from work it's top down for me on my 65+ mile daily commute.
Great comparison video
hi Zygrene, would you say a gt86/brz is a good option? The markups on the GR86/BRZ is still kinda crazy.
I just bought an s2k and I honestly didn't even consider the other options, nothing matches the s2k engine-wise!
2zz cars (looking at lotus Elises and swapped mr2 spyders) are honestly pretty addictive in their vvti hit :)
@@PeterPangea worddd, having a dedicated Elise track car would be so sick lol
Can't wait for the E36/RX-8/S2000 comparo!
can you make a video talking about the RTV issue w the BRZ/86?
i have both ap2 and modified gr86 and the s2000 scares the shit out of my on track. but it is very rewarding.. i prefer the gr86 for daily/ track
the s2000 is a good dedicated track car or a weekend car.. also the shifter on the honda is the best
Can we talk about Zygrene blowing through a red at the 0:38 second mark 😂
Thuglife
I have an NC3 with Öhlins and A052’s. It’s so much fun to drive and the driving dynamics are superior due to the suspension architecture, but dang do I miss the AP1’s 9k redline I had years back.
The s2000 is better from 8000 to 9000rpm. In other words at the limit. It's just such a damn dog in the lower rpm. I currently have an nc2 and agree with you that the nc chassis is better, it just doesn't have the engine the s2000 has. But I find it way more fun to drive than I did my buddy's s2000 since most of the PowerBand is fun. Nc is 300 pounds lighter is some trims than the honda also which is a huge plus.
How do you think a NC3s suspension setup is better than an S2000s? Or do you mean vs McPherson strut on BRZ?
I’d love to get an s2000 over a gr86 but financing one just wouldn’t make sense vs a new car so I just went with the 86. Hopefully soon I’ll be able to get one before they become way too expensive.
I very recently got a Grand Prix White 2003 Honda S2000, couldn’t be happier. I value the analog feel and the ease of repair over newer cars. Also just love the 9000rpm redline & look of the car.
How about 981a compare with s2000? Which car handles better?
Back in 2014 I traded in my 01 S2k for a EX Civic ( due space issues ) knowing that couple years later I’ll get a 04 S2k as a weekend car. So that happened back 2017, but if I didn’t have the luxury of owning a point A-B car and a weekend toy, I would definitely get a GR 86.
i own a 2022 brz and yes, get an s2000 (:
Do you plan on doing anything about the sealant issue?
Stock ‘05 S2000 here, wouldn’t have it any other way.
Yep, no regrets about my BRZ - perfect daily commuter that absorbs ever Portland pothole it encounters. If you buy it knowing how you’re going to use it, there’s absolutely no buyers remorse!
Yes. Yes you should. No question about it buy the S2K.
Who is buying an S2000 for daily driving nowadays? S2K should be your 2nd car minimum (really just your "when you want to drive it" car), S2K wasn't meant to be a DD but a weekend driver car.
Having owned several S2000’s, BRZ/86 it’s all situational. If you need a daily vehicle, hands down BRZ/86. On public roads, the S2000 and BRZ/86 are very identical driving experience wise but you receive a lot more practicality and comfort features from the BRZ/86. If your purchasing a track vehicle, then S2000 it is.
Just curious what comfort features are you referring to?
If you only have budget & space for 1 car, GR86 - but you'll need some social media muscle to pressure for warranty issues (if it's an 11K engine, then factor that into your budget). Following the recent warranty debacle(s), Toyota needs to issue a statement clarifying what's covered if you do auto-x or do track days but leave your drivetrain stock - fighting/escalating warranty issues is a giant PITA and pushes me toward other options like MX5.
If you have budget and space for 2 cars, then GTI for daily and either an STR-prepped ND2 MX5 (more disposable) or S2000 (likely to appreciate).
The S2K. I daily drove a 2000 S2K AP1 for 6 years/70k miles.
Took it backpacking in Yosemite.
Never tracked it but did hit 100mph every day to work on Laguna Canyon Highway.
The trunk is surprisingly large and my daughter and I could fit two fully loaded backpacks provisioned for 5 days in the back country.
The drivers seat, while comfortable gives you no options for positioning other than to be optimally placed to operate the controls and 300 mile road trips yielded a cramped sore body for my what was then 40 something 5'7" 155 lb frame.
The daily drive was all about the car and tge S2K demanded my attention always saying, "don't do that, don't try that, you, your two feet, two hands and teo eyes are here for me and only me."
It took corners at speed like a cart on rails and hitting V-tech every day was like a sex on wheels.
Top down was a must for every day except when raining or hot sun, meaning the afternoon drive home in SoCal was usually top up in the summer and early fall months but top down am was most every day of the year.
There is no privacy in this machine but it makes one feel like a highway rockstar.
I want another one but would I pay 28-30k for a good one with 40 something miles or get a new GR86 or GR Corolla? I think not, especially as my daily driver.
I've driven the GR Corolla and tho it is faster, the S2K is dynamically better and more fun and more exciting than the GR Corolla. Also, the GR Corolla is priced for stupidity and not worth it.
I have just started yesterday looking at the GR86, the reputedly better tuned of the
BRZ/GR86 cars.
Maybe yes, but I've not driven one and wish they would make them at least with a sunroof. If they did then I'd probably already have said "yes" yesterday.
Miata? no thank you.
I got a ap1 in Bay Area with light mods for street/track.
more videos of alex’s s2000!!
had my s2k for 3 weeks. fun car I use it for weekends only. I don’t think anyone gets the s2k for daily use, if they do then there’s no room to talk about space, tech, etc… i’d simply negate someone’s opinion by saying “natural selection” you knew what you bought . it’s not for daily comfort, it’s for the driving experience and to be driven hard . not to go get starbucks do grocery for a family of 6
Different cars for different occasions. BRZ doesn't have a drop top so potential buyers for a sports convertible will head towards the S2000 or Miata. Plus, the engine of the S2000 has been regarded as one of the best 4 cyl's ever made and not to mention the double wishbones all round.
However, for practicality and a more relaxing ride, the gt86 trumps it.
Ultimately, it all depends on what's the highest on the priority list when making that choice and for me, the total package and character of the S2000 wins it for me.
The gt86 is like a gt3 in the Porsche world - more useable and comfortable, whilst the S2000 is like a gt3rs compared - less comfortable but more track focused.
S2000s value continues to rise while the gr continues to fall. I'll take the s2k.
The irony is the s2k that is less street friendly is more reliable than the more city friendly BRZ.
You make some cool content :)
Well rounded out video Zygrene. You still need to get yourself another S2000 soon ;) S2000 is truly unique and is far more special than the new GR86/BRZ. Some people might not like it as a daily but it wasn't designed as one so they should keep that in mind before buying. GR86/BRZ are great new sports cars with a lot of potential. I'd take the Hachi Roku :) I'd let you review my supercharged '00 AP1 but sadly we're not in the same country :(
Been daily driving my s2000 since 2015, it’s incredible! Has power everything, windows mirrors, leather seats, air conditioning, all the comforts you could ask for. And gets good gas mileage as well. It also offers the best driving feel and experience anyone could ask for.
@@crxvtec0069 yeah it is fully loaded and I could happily daily my S2000 if I needed to but I have a really good performance daily so I don't need to :) I have an AP1 which is the most hardcore S2000. The later AP2 models, especially 2006 and up would be a little more daily-friendly as they are dialed back, with slower steering rack and more compliant suspension setup.
@@RolanTHUNDER what’s your daily driver?
@@crxvtec0069 Toyota AE111 Corolla RSi 20 Valve. Also known as the Corolla GT of the mid '90's to 2000.
I like to see and video on the lexus sc300
Where you gonna find an S2K for a reasonable price that hasn't been trashed?
Just bought the s2000 after reading the BAT boards and obviously the Honda’s appreciation
I love the S2000 and I have driven both the AP1 and AP2. I also own a 22 GR86 in Neptune blue.
Here is my summary.
The GR86 is more tame compared to the s2k, the shifter is better in the s2k and the engine just wants to rev more.
However the GR86 is better looking in my opinion, has a more compliant ride, can fit a set of track wheels n tires with the seats down and is the best sports car for the money new right now.
I agree with everything besides the looks being better.
We’re all entitled to our own opinions but dam bruh, the s2000 design is one of the most iconic, timeless, classic roadsters ever built. It’s simply beautiful idk what you’re smokin to think the gr86 looks better 🤣
@@crxvtec0069 I respect what the S2K is, the high revving engine, slick manual transmission and great handling.
Style is subjective, I just happen to think the GR86, especially in the color I bought it in which in Neptune blue is just better looking.
Had a spa yellow 03' before covid. You don't experience the value out of the car if you live in a 4-seasons city. Moved on to bikes. Ride an RC51. Much better.
If you get a low mileage low owner s2000 and look after it’ll go up I’m Value. The other two won’t. For me it’s a no brainer
Yeah so which one helped improved your track driving skills? If S2k didn’t, no point getting it again…
S2000 all day. The GR86 is a great alternative though.
Looking to keep my car stock, would you prefer the GR86 or GR Supra as a daily driver with automatic transmission?
You lost me at automatic trans bro 🤣
Gr supra if you need auto, the auto box on the 86 isn't great
If you ever in DFW Texas drive my S2k.
Is that even a question? Ap1 4 life , never Guna sell mine
Owned 3 s2000s over the years, truly my favorite car ever, currently own a brz, could never go back to dailying a s2000 again. Also factor in the prices of both cars new and match the s2000s original price with the current market adjustment
S2k all the way. Better handling but tunability is crap. You can’t increase this engine at all except a few horsepower unless you want to ruin the car by adding a super or turbo charger
The S2000 AP1 is still a pretty comfortable ride but I can only handle it once a week
That one GR86 claim that was denied was mostly dealership-level error and it eventually got resolved. It sucks that it took a bit of pressure, but I don't want to jump straight to blaming Toyota Corporate when most manufacturers default to having it be dealt with at dealership-level.
Also the RTV issue is just the flavor of the month complaint. One person had an issue and spooked a ton of people, but most folks aren't having engine failures. If for any reason they did... well the thing is warrantied. But I think the groups (trust me I'm in a lot of them and there have been daily RTV posts) are blowing this 'issue' out of proportion.
But I ultimately agree with the assessment. The S2000 will always have a special place for me. I think it should for most people that really appreciate driving. But the new Twins get VERY VERY close while also being significantly more multi-purpose. I want an S2000 in my fleet as well, but I wouldn't trade my '22 BRZ for it to get there.
Plus I'm secretly hoping that once we can tune the FA24 it'll feel more like how I want an NA 4 to feel, but that's a whole other argument.
Toyota Europe (and I believe Japan) do not deny warranty claims based on track day use. It's only the North American branch that does. Sucks!
Every single person that has actually dropped their oil pan to check the pick-up has found RTV stuck in it. That is not an issue "being blown out of proportion" whatsoever. Lack of oil pressure is the number one way to kill an engine quick.
@@Chilicharger665 Yeah that is a MAJOR flaw. The engineers who built the engines at the factory need to be fired for using way too much RTV. Their carelessness has blown engines up so their mistake cannot be taken lightly. This is so uncharacteristic of Toyota...unless Subaru is solely responsible for screwing this up...
@@RolanTHUNDER Subaru makes everything, so it is their fault
@@Chilicharger665 haha! Subaru must improve if they want to get close to Toyota's super reliability
Well.. I regret selling my track prepped s2000 for sure.
Finding a non clapped out s2k for a reasonable price
I was curious about this question also. I live in N. Cal as well. I've never owned either car. I would also go with an 86 or Brz. I do thin nvh is a factor and I always prefer a hardtop car anyway with a 2+2 configuration. The warranty thing sucks and that should not happen. I have never tracked a car and curious about that.
S2000. No decision here.
The Honda S2000 ROCKS and looks super cool.
Do yourselves a solid and buy an NC Miata and do a 2.5 swap. You won't regret it.
Honda needs to give us a rwd coupe to compete with the 86 chassis
I agree that an s2000 doesn't make a good daily driver (maybe 20 years ago but comfort standards have moved on) but I wouldn't say the 86/BRZ is 2 or 3 times better. It's not really fair you comparing the example you borrowed either, as the spring rates on that are absurdly high for the street, and the noises it makes is comical :D it's clearly a track car
Toyota ended up fixing the car mentioned under warranty …..
GR86, definitely, would like to try S2K but it's too old, it is gonna cost you lots of money on repair and maintenance.
I have 110,000 miles on my 2001 AP1 and no major problems at all. Only parts ever needed were new rear brake pads, a battery change, new wiper blades and four new spark plugs. With regular fluid changes my S2K has been incredibly reliable and unlike many, doesn't burn oil at all. I love this car and its fun when people comment on how great it still looks compared to more modern cars. Driving it when the VTech kicks in at screaming high revs still makes me smile every time.
But the brz and gr86 drive differently tho
This guy is very biased 😂. I’ve owned an s2k and now have a 2023 BRZ. I can tell you that the GR86/BRZ is way better than the s2k. People have proven and so many videos showing stock for stock and even modified. I get it.. the s2000 has a a better driving experience but to be honest it’s a hard car to daily. If it’s a pure track car then that’s ok. But we’re talking about the average person who has one vehicle. The BRZ/GR86 is the answer. Also a very good stock low mile s2k is already around the same price as a new gr86/BRZ.
You should be cool and buy a RX-8 :) get the 9k redline and sublime handling and all the practicality (and then some) of a GR86, all for the low low cost of fuel and oil!
I think Toyota has recanted their statements and are now authorizing the warranty claims.
get s2000 for the drive/engine, get gr86 for the modern tech with better practical driving. I daily my s2000 since 2005 and my lower back hurts (I'm in my mid 30s) and hardtop latches rattle. 😂
S2000 👏🏼is👏🏼always👏🏼the👏🏼answer👏🏼
i feel like were just doging on the 86 and frs so it will stay cheep
Yes!
Any brz or frs boi's wanna Crack at my s2k? Socal here. NA vs NA.
Why not😂only if I got the chance here in mainland China
Your mileage on the BRZ is OVER 9000!!!
Lol sorry had to say it.
On a more serious note, is the ride so stiff in this S2000 that the windscreen is cracked? Or am I the one on crack? Lol
Pleasanton stop lights confirmed
I'm thinking about selling my DC2r to buy an S2k
Toyota did honor the warranty. Basically a Toyota dealership denied the clam and due to the backlash, Toyota cooperation stepped in and honored the warranty claim
In my area they want $40k+ for a new 86
The s2000 looks way better in person, sounds better and will out perform the brz by a mile when u keep going up the mod ladder. The engine just has so much more potential....people have made over 900hp with a oem block with 100s of passes. With that being said I personally wouldn't buy either one as a daily driver. I'd get a CTR or something practical.
Not to mention Nothing beats a drop top on a perfect summer night 👌
Ok, Honda fan boy, I own a Honda Civic EG and an ITR which I sold. I've never been a fan of a S2000 they're on the bottom list of Honda cars, just above the Prelude and accord. The best Hondas are the Integra and Civic. We can't talk about the Nsx because it's unattainable by 99% of people. Now I'm getting a GR86. Honda has been a letdown for me since 2005. I mean, look at the new Civic Type R and Integra, a 4 door boat. lol I'm not going to support a company that makes crappy, ugly family boat cars and just slaps on a turbo engine and calls it a performance car lol.
Toyota has reversed its discission and will now honor warrantee on tracked gr 86's
s2000. I wish my college exam questions were this easy.
I’m glad I bought my S2000 5 years ago
Sold my Brz for a S2k. No regrets but they are not my daily.