If you actually want to know why they're 'upset', this is a good place to hear JHS's thoughts. ua-cam.com/video/DJnwsHXFFKs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=JHSPedals
TLDR: It's not about the circuits. This is like AI ripping off the art of artists and people trying to claim it as their own. It's the likeness that's the issue. They copied not just the circuit but the actual art design and likeness of the pedal... that's why folks are a bit miffed.
@@ridethecliche247 yeah, I can understand it from both sides. JHS have been that side of the fence too with MGM sueing them for the use of the pink panther image and name without consent, but demon FX are doing it on a whole other level.
@@BudgetPedalChap the other side of what? What's the justification for copying trade dress? The reason the demonfx pedals sell to begin with is because they look like what they're copying. That's why you review them because people want to know if they sound close to the 'real deal'. I mean, I own some too so I get it. The everything is copied anyway argument is for circuits, not the housing and the branding which is what everyone using that argument fails to understand! But JHS got sued and had to correct their mistake and/or pay for it. How do you do that with things based in china that don't give a crap about things like intellectual property let alone trade dress. I totally get it though, some pedals are wildly expensive. Others are unobtanium. I don't think anyone going to find issue with someone copying the circuit and branding (within reason) of a pedal that's NLA. You're legit not hurting anyone when you do that. Thanks for the discussion. Cool channel btw. You've earned a subscriber!
@@whoisthecoppacnk cheers, thanks for the kind words. The Sonicake Levitate has a tap tempo if you hold down the switch. It's a dual reverb and delay and it sounds great, but if you are after a dedicated tap switch, maybe something like the d-seed by joyo. I've not tried one, but I've heard that they are very good 👍
Great demo vid BPC 👏👏👏 I really dig this pedal, it's my kind of thing & will consider purchasing. I really need to catch up on watching when your vids are live.
I only need a reverb for shimmer with a nice spacey delay. Which has a more ambient and overall better shimmer, this or the workstation? Love your demos!!!
I think this one is easier to dial in, the workstation is more involved. It's been a while since I played both as they were only on loan, so I can't give a definitive answer. Cheers for the kind words 👍
Hi, I'm not a guitar player but I'm looking to gift a pedal to my dad. I bought the Caline Ghost Rain pedal and was wondering if this pedal could do the same thing and if this was preferable (in your opinion) to the Ghost Rain pedal?
@@Greatscott88studios I'm not sure I'm familiar with the ghost rain, so I couldn't tell you how they compare. I can say that I really liked this one and the sound quality was great 👍
I liked that. As usual I liked the craziest setting right at the end with deep and shimmer. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for a pedal to do. I don't have anything with a shimmer on it at the moment. This looks ideal
I have the Keeley version 2. This sounds kind of same but with a little less depth and intensity. Could be UA-cams compression though. I own 3 DemonFX pedals. Build quality is little lack luster considering the price on them have been going up pretty steady over the last couple years. Ok for home use but would not rely on them in a working situation. The 3 i have all sound pretty much like the originals at least from what i can gather with youtubes compression coloring things. Not bad by any stretch but none are on my board. Nice vid.
@@lowgainproduction9119 I've not got any on my board either, but I would definitely give them a go live. I think they could withstand a bit of a beating, but I would be tempted to bring a backup just in case 😂😂 I know I'd rather one of these get beer spilt on them than the real thing
@@BudgetPedalChap Only thing that set me off on them was i have the Dual Gun "Duelist" clone. The top of the foot switch popped off not long after purchase. I was able to snap it back on and it has stayed ever since but it set in the back of my head they may be a little Fragile. Sound was very good though.
If you had to pick one would you go for the Ravine or the Reverb/Delay Workstation??? Or is the Mod Workstation enough to cover delay and reverb needs with the added bonus of various other modulation pedals thrown in?
@@fusionfan6883 the reverb delay workstation feels like it has more adjustable to it to cover everything. I would probably go for the ravine because I like a bit more simple of an interface. Both sound great though 👍
@@BudgetPedalChapSo I got the Workstation and hated it big time, it sucks tone both engaged and in bypass, and it is near impossible to dial in subtle effects. I am considering the Ravine as it sounds more organic and is true bypass but wish it had more conventional delay and reverb options. Can you suggest any other combined delay and reverb pedals worth exploring?
To tie in with your gigging question the other day... What would be your perfect gigging afforadaboard rig for this moment in time? Amp or guitar doesn't have to be necessarily budget.
My gigging board as it stands (though it won't be getting any immediate use as the band has wound down) is Dr green tuner, Marshall compressor, mojo mojo, Chevtone preacher, a Jeds Peds autowah, Caline green mama (gain low, used as a solo boost) and a Caline barn owl reverb. It was very specific for the kind of stuff I was doing, so I would necessarily call it the ultimate affordaboard, but it covered enough ground for me 👍
Got mine yesterday and it does sounds great! BTW, does anyone knows what the 3rd dipswitch does? It has 2 for TBP/Buffered (trails) but there's a 3rd one near the 9v jack.
actually I just had the time to open the pedal again and: the 2 switches does the individual TBP/buffered w trails. The 3rd one... muted everything lol.
Ok, this one is awesome. It made my list. I know people are ticked off that it’s a blatant copy of the caverns, but come on, everything is a copy of something. I would have loved if they had made the look their own so it wasn’t so close to copying trade dress, but if you’re actually looking at the caverns, you’re not looking at this one. This one looks like a great budget pedal. I loved the Jolene lick in there btw, always entertaining.
@@davidwagner85 they're not individual, but it's a trs jack that lets you put a splitter cable in and run the FX separately. That's what the Keeley website says, so it might be a newer addition maybe? Give it a go and let me know if it works 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap I have the workstation one exactly for this purpose, and a Flamma Ekoverb for the ambient stuff. How do you think this one compares to that? I think this one is a really beautiful pedal, I just can't for the life of me find one other reason to buy it. haha
I've not tried the flamma, so I couldn't say for certain. What I will say is that these probably won't stay in stock for long and they might also get a cease and desist for the 'inspired by' imagery, so I guess that could be a reason to get in quick 😉👍
@@BudgetPedalChap just checked the og (don't tell anyone) and found this at "thatguitarlover": "There are also internal DIP switches to enable True Bypass or Trails if you wish."
Demon is excellent at what they do. I have a struggle with buying a reverb pedal even in combo form. Im not sure why. I guess I just think it's in the amp so why bother. You made this one sound beautiful though.
As long as you enjoy the reverb your amp has built in, then absolutely. My Peavey has a lovely spring verb built in so I tend to rely on that, but I also have a second reverb to stack on top just for the extra roominess. Thanks as always for watching and for the kind words 👍
@@jfiery my instinct tells me to go for a used flashback mini. Load it with a tone print of your choice, winner 👍 I have heard good things about the nux space echo clone too. I'm doing the time echo soon and I think that has a tape mode in it. I'm sure there are others, but those are the first that sprung up mind
@@joybernardlee I don't think I've tried the atmosphere, but I imagine it's packed full of features much like this one. Are you happy with the tones you get out of it?
Thanks for the video. I have a few Reverbs on my main board (Oceans 11, Kafka, True Spring, and a Slo) since it is one of my three main effects (Dirt, Reverb, and Echo/Delay). So I have all of tyese settings covered as well as my Echo/Delay pedals (Dan Echo x2, Ibanez Echoshifter). So this pedal is definitely in my wheelhouse. The Pros of this pedal is it is pretty versatile overall and you have a good degree of control over each effect. Compared to two separate pedals it will save you room on you board. The Cons are that the sound is very digital and compared to my pedals and the Keely pedal, it definitely does not do that much. I looked up the price and this is $76 new on Amazon. For getting two effects its not a bad price. That said if you really want that deep true tone, you would be better off picking up a higher grade pedal used. I would take my Oceans 11 used over this even though this does slightly more. If you are building a budget board, this would be alright. Personally I would buy this used if I really wanted it. The Reverb reminds me a bit of my Caline "Old School Reverb" with the digital quality to it. That pedal is on my "Garage Rock budget board." Its cool but I purposely set it to get the fake digital reverb sounds since my other Reverbs won't do that. If you really want a Elevated production pedal (like my Echoshifter) or a Boutique pedal (like the Caverns) I would say hold off and get that over this. If what you heard in the demo really does it for you, go ahead and buy this pedal. I think its a Fine to Good grade pedal but it won't satisfy you if you want a higher quality pedal.
Absolutely. Like with a lot of the cheaper Chinese stuff, it's great for dipping your toes into that sound. If you find you end up loving it, it's well worth taking it to that next level and going for the original. Especially with the DSP based stuff, they are never going to sound quite as lush as the originals, but it's worth knowing for sure that you want to spend £200+ on a pedal before committing to it.
@@BudgetPedalChap If you want a Elevated Production pedal (like an EHX Oceans 12, or an Ibanez Echoshifter) or a Boutique pedal, I would suggest buying them used and then if it isn't your thing, you should be able to sell it for what you paid. So you are out little to nothing. I would honestly say try before you buy and if you have to travel before you buy it, that is time, money, and effort that's worth finding out you don't like it. I was able to pick up my Walrus Audio Slo for about $85 and I bought it because I knew it wasn't likely I would see that price again. It took me some time to find the settings I like. It also works well with my other pedals.
I wish DemonFx would put the Work in to change the Apearance of their Pedals. Those blatant Rip Offs aren't necessary in my Opinion. I'd be happy buying cloned circuits in an original designed enclosure if they sound good - everyone does it. But this is one step too far... Would love to know the Impact on Sales for Keeley and other Manufacturers.
Yeah, it's the elephant in the room with this brand. To play devil's advocate, the sheer cheek of this blatant copying has made it so they have become quite well known in a matter of only a few years. I'm not saying it's right to do so, but they have gained more traction than the other various Chinese brands like amoon and the such.
My guess is that what this is actually ruining is the USED sales of the originals. I'm in agreement with you both, but truly most of the stuff they take on is in that upwards of $200 range that I could never afford.
@@BudgetPedalChap I just don't like the sound. Dull and muddy, and the knobs don't seem to do all that much. Shimmer mode is unbearable, and I don't know what to make of the Modulation mode, Spring is okay(ish) but overall, it's just not a good pedal and definitely can't hold a candle to the original. I paid about 80 bucks, and don't think it was worth it.
@@eaglebauer944 I am sorry to hear that. It's not the experience I got, I found it to be quite expansive and lush, but I've not tried the Keeley so maybe I've got nothing truly to compare it to. Let me know if the sounds in the demo are similar to what you experienced, I'd be keen to hear your thoughts 👍
I really appreciate the text based, graphics assisted approach to this review. Cheers!
It lets the speak for itself 👍 Cheers for watching
I don’t know why JHS and other companies are so upset. All their petals are copies too. They just didn’t paint them the same color.
There is an argument for that, especially with things like tube screamers and such 👍
If you actually want to know why they're 'upset', this is a good place to hear JHS's thoughts.
ua-cam.com/video/DJnwsHXFFKs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=JHSPedals
TLDR: It's not about the circuits. This is like AI ripping off the art of artists and people trying to claim it as their own. It's the likeness that's the issue. They copied not just the circuit but the actual art design and likeness of the pedal... that's why folks are a bit miffed.
@@ridethecliche247 yeah, I can understand it from both sides. JHS have been that side of the fence too with MGM sueing them for the use of the pink panther image and name without consent, but demon FX are doing it on a whole other level.
@@BudgetPedalChap the other side of what? What's the justification for copying trade dress? The reason the demonfx pedals sell to begin with is because they look like what they're copying. That's why you review them because people want to know if they sound close to the 'real deal'. I mean, I own some too so I get it. The everything is copied anyway argument is for circuits, not the housing and the branding which is what everyone using that argument fails to understand!
But JHS got sued and had to correct their mistake and/or pay for it. How do you do that with things based in china that don't give a crap about things like intellectual property let alone trade dress.
I totally get it though, some pedals are wildly expensive. Others are unobtanium. I don't think anyone going to find issue with someone copying the circuit and branding (within reason) of a pedal that's NLA. You're legit not hurting anyone when you do that.
Thanks for the discussion. Cool channel btw. You've earned a subscriber!
Hi. I watched all of your demon fx videos and am loving them. I’ve ordered a few! Is there a budget delay with tap tempo you can recommend?
@@whoisthecoppacnk cheers, thanks for the kind words. The Sonicake Levitate has a tap tempo if you hold down the switch. It's a dual reverb and delay and it sounds great, but if you are after a dedicated tap switch, maybe something like the d-seed by joyo. I've not tried one, but I've heard that they are very good 👍
Great demo vid BPC 👏👏👏
I really dig this pedal, it's my kind of thing & will consider purchasing.
I really need to catch up on watching when your vids are live.
Thanks for the kind words. You're always welcome here gent 👍
I only need a reverb for shimmer with a nice spacey delay. Which has a more ambient and overall better shimmer, this or the workstation? Love your demos!!!
I think this one is easier to dial in, the workstation is more involved. It's been a while since I played both as they were only on loan, so I can't give a definitive answer. Cheers for the kind words 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap then I might have to go with this one if it's easier to dial in, I love simplicity as much as I love your demos, cheers!
Love the sound of this one
It does alright, doesn't it? 👍
Really looking forward to this. I'm looking for a good pedal for my 'ambient board'
This does ambience very well, let me know what you think when the vid premiers 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap will do dude 😉
_"I'm looking for a good pedal..."_ Then you should look elsewhere, this is not a good pedal.
Hi, I'm not a guitar player but I'm looking to gift a pedal to my dad. I bought the Caline Ghost Rain pedal and was wondering if this pedal could do the same thing and if this was preferable (in your opinion) to the Ghost Rain pedal?
@@Greatscott88studios I'm not sure I'm familiar with the ghost rain, so I couldn't tell you how they compare. I can say that I really liked this one and the sound quality was great 👍
I liked that. As usual I liked the craziest setting right at the end with deep and shimmer. That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for a pedal to do. I don't have anything with a shimmer on it at the moment. This looks ideal
Yeah, the shimmer is decent. Cheap shimmer can be a bit hit or miss, so it's nice to see one that's good 👍
I definitely need this i would replace two on my board.
@@omarsharif927 I could see it stepping in for a few pedals all at once 👍
I have the Keeley version 2. This sounds kind of same but with a little less depth and intensity. Could be UA-cams compression though.
I own 3 DemonFX pedals. Build quality is little lack luster considering the price on them have been going up pretty steady over the last couple years. Ok for home use but would not rely
on them in a working situation. The 3 i have all sound pretty much like the originals at least from what i can gather with youtubes compression coloring things.
Not bad by any stretch but none are on my board.
Nice vid.
@@lowgainproduction9119 I've not got any on my board either, but I would definitely give them a go live. I think they could withstand a bit of a beating, but I would be tempted to bring a backup just in case 😂😂 I know I'd rather one of these get beer spilt on them than the real thing
@@BudgetPedalChap Only thing that set me off on them was i have the Dual Gun "Duelist" clone. The top of the foot switch popped off not long after purchase. I was able to snap it back on and it has stayed ever since but it set in the back of my head they may be a little Fragile. Sound was very good though.
If you had to pick one would you go for the Ravine or the Reverb/Delay Workstation??? Or is the Mod Workstation enough to cover delay and reverb needs with the added bonus of various other modulation pedals thrown in?
@@fusionfan6883 the reverb delay workstation feels like it has more adjustable to it to cover everything. I would probably go for the ravine because I like a bit more simple of an interface. Both sound great though 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap The Mod Workstation has delay and reverb plus a ton of other effects, have you tried it?
@@fusionfan6883 I've not tried that one yet, I'm sure it won't be long before it'll make it's way onto the channel though 👍
@@BudgetPedalChapSo I got the Workstation and hated it big time, it sucks tone both engaged and in bypass, and it is near impossible to dial in subtle effects. I am considering the Ravine as it sounds more organic and is true bypass but wish it had more conventional delay and reverb options. Can you suggest any other combined delay and reverb pedals worth exploring?
@@fusionfan6883 the Levitate by Sonicake is a quite conventional sounding delay/reverb combo and it impressed me 👍
To tie in with your gigging question the other day... What would be your perfect gigging afforadaboard rig for this moment in time? Amp or guitar doesn't have to be necessarily budget.
My gigging board as it stands (though it won't be getting any immediate use as the band has wound down) is Dr green tuner, Marshall compressor, mojo mojo, Chevtone preacher, a Jeds Peds autowah, Caline green mama (gain low, used as a solo boost) and a Caline barn owl reverb. It was very specific for the kind of stuff I was doing, so I would necessarily call it the ultimate affordaboard, but it covered enough ground for me 👍
Got mine yesterday and it does sounds great! BTW, does anyone knows what the 3rd dipswitch does? It has 2 for TBP/Buffered (trails) but there's a 3rd one near the 9v jack.
@@cavernna_audio I didn't even know it had dip switches 🤣🤣 someone else might have the answer 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap lol no worries
actually I just had the time to open the pedal again and: the 2 switches does the individual TBP/buffered w trails. The 3rd one... muted everything lol.
Ok, this one is awesome. It made my list. I know people are ticked off that it’s a blatant copy of the caverns, but come on, everything is a copy of something. I would have loved if they had made the look their own so it wasn’t so close to copying trade dress, but if you’re actually looking at the caverns, you’re not looking at this one. This one looks like a great budget pedal.
I loved the Jolene lick in there btw, always entertaining.
😉 glad you noticed that cheeky little nod to Jolene. That's how I see it too, the same people will buy demon FX aren't even considering Keeley tbf
The Keeley version does NOT have individual output jacks for delay and reverb like the video says. At least the version I have doesn't.
@@davidwagner85 they're not individual, but it's a trs jack that lets you put a splitter cable in and run the FX separately. That's what the Keeley website says, so it might be a newer addition maybe? Give it a go and let me know if it works 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap holy crap! It works!
There ya go buddy, something new for you 👍
That's versatile! Maybe too many controls for my couple of brain cells though 🤔😲🙄✌️👍💜
If you think of it as 2 separate pedals, they only have 4 controls each and a switch. It is daunting though eh?
@@BudgetPedalChap You're right of course, but my brain can't always cope😲🙄💔 Fantastic tones though👍✌️💜😊
Does delay have tap tempo?? 🤔
No, pretty sure it doesn't
I feel like I've seen this one somewhere before...
Now you mention it, if you squint, it kind of looks like ...
This or the workstation one?
Workstation for standard tones, this for more experiential sounds
@@BudgetPedalChap I have the workstation one exactly for this purpose, and a Flamma Ekoverb for the ambient stuff. How do you think this one compares to that? I think this one is a really beautiful pedal, I just can't for the life of me find one other reason to buy it. haha
I've not tried the flamma, so I couldn't say for certain. What I will say is that these probably won't stay in stock for long and they might also get a cease and desist for the 'inspired by' imagery, so I guess that could be a reason to get in quick 😉👍
Can you tap the tempo?
No, I don't think it does
The delay have trails?
I don't think it does, I could be wrong though
Has internal switches to choose between True/Trails bypass for delay and reverb (from the manual at Demonfx site)
@@wolfgangdevries127 cheers for that 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap just checked the og (don't tell anyone) and found this at "thatguitarlover": "There are also internal DIP switches to enable True Bypass or Trails if you wish."
Shimmer is hard to get right, this sounded ok in that regard.
Cheap shimmer is usually really jarring, this one does a decent job eh? 👍
Demon is excellent at what they do. I have a struggle with buying a reverb pedal even in combo form. Im not sure why. I guess I just think it's in the amp so why bother. You made this one sound beautiful though.
As long as you enjoy the reverb your amp has built in, then absolutely. My Peavey has a lovely spring verb built in so I tend to rely on that, but I also have a second reverb to stack on top just for the extra roominess. Thanks as always for watching and for the kind words 👍
@@BudgetPedalChap well My Vox has a great reverb to my ears so that's why. Been looking for an affordable tape echo though. Any suggestions?
@@jfiery my instinct tells me to go for a used flashback mini. Load it with a tone print of your choice, winner 👍 I have heard good things about the nux space echo clone too. I'm doing the time echo soon and I think that has a tape mode in it. I'm sure there are others, but those are the first that sprung up mind
@@BudgetPedalChap thanks Chappie. Will hold off until you do your review then pick one of the 3.
This demo makes me think to replace my Joyo Atmosphere to this.... but the price almost similar.
@@joybernardlee I don't think I've tried the atmosphere, but I imagine it's packed full of features much like this one. Are you happy with the tones you get out of it?
Tap tempo?
@@AllMusic77743 I am pretty sure it doesn't have tap tempo
Thanks for the video. I have a few Reverbs on my main board (Oceans 11, Kafka, True Spring, and a Slo) since it is one of my three main effects (Dirt, Reverb, and Echo/Delay). So I have all of tyese settings covered as well as my Echo/Delay pedals (Dan Echo x2, Ibanez Echoshifter). So this pedal is definitely in my wheelhouse.
The Pros of this pedal is it is pretty versatile overall and you have a good degree of control over each effect. Compared to two separate pedals it will save you room on you board. The Cons are that the sound is very digital and compared to my pedals and the Keely pedal, it definitely does not do that much.
I looked up the price and this is $76 new on Amazon. For getting two effects its not a bad price. That said if you really want that deep true tone, you would be better off picking up a higher grade pedal used. I would take my Oceans 11 used over this even though this does slightly more. If you are building a budget board, this would be alright. Personally I would buy this used if I really wanted it. The Reverb reminds me a bit of my Caline "Old School Reverb" with the digital quality to it. That pedal is on my "Garage Rock budget board." Its cool but I purposely set it to get the fake digital reverb sounds since my other Reverbs won't do that.
If you really want a Elevated production pedal (like my Echoshifter) or a Boutique pedal (like the Caverns) I would say hold off and get that over this. If what you heard in the demo really does it for you, go ahead and buy this pedal. I think its a Fine to Good grade pedal but it won't satisfy you if you want a higher quality pedal.
Absolutely. Like with a lot of the cheaper Chinese stuff, it's great for dipping your toes into that sound. If you find you end up loving it, it's well worth taking it to that next level and going for the original. Especially with the DSP based stuff, they are never going to sound quite as lush as the originals, but it's worth knowing for sure that you want to spend £200+ on a pedal before committing to it.
@@BudgetPedalChap
If you want a Elevated Production pedal (like an EHX Oceans 12, or an Ibanez Echoshifter) or a Boutique pedal, I would suggest buying them used and then if it isn't your thing, you should be able to sell it for what you paid. So you are out little to nothing. I would honestly say try before you buy and if you have to travel before you buy it, that is time, money, and effort that's worth finding out you don't like it.
I was able to pick up my Walrus Audio Slo for about $85 and I bought it because I knew it wasn't likely I would see that price again. It took me some time to find the settings I like. It also works well with my other pedals.
Where is the ambiance? Didn't hear any at all.
@@SonicReels I don't know how to fix this for you. I can assure you there is some
Maybe there is a budget pedal that can remove the cheese in their ears.
I wish DemonFx would put the Work in to change the Apearance of their Pedals. Those blatant Rip Offs aren't necessary in my Opinion. I'd be happy buying cloned circuits in an original designed enclosure if they sound good - everyone does it. But this is one step too far... Would love to know the Impact on Sales for Keeley and other Manufacturers.
Yeah, it's the elephant in the room with this brand. To play devil's advocate, the sheer cheek of this blatant copying has made it so they have become quite well known in a matter of only a few years. I'm not saying it's right to do so, but they have gained more traction than the other various Chinese brands like amoon and the such.
My guess is that what this is actually ruining is the USED sales of the originals. I'm in agreement with you both, but truly most of the stuff they take on is in that upwards of $200 range that I could never afford.
Well considering I wouldn’t never bought the authentic I only discovered this brand from Ali so i was only going to spend £30 to £55
Is that a Keeley electronics clone? xD
It might very well be 🤣🤣
Bought one a few weeks ago, and I was very disapointed. It just sounds like garbage.
That's a surprise. What was wrong with it, if you don't mind me asking?
@@BudgetPedalChap I just don't like the sound. Dull and muddy, and the knobs don't seem to do all that much. Shimmer mode is unbearable, and I don't know what to make of the Modulation mode, Spring is okay(ish) but overall, it's just not a good pedal and definitely can't hold a candle to the original. I paid about 80 bucks, and don't think it was worth it.
@@eaglebauer944 I am sorry to hear that. It's not the experience I got, I found it to be quite expansive and lush, but I've not tried the Keeley so maybe I've got nothing truly to compare it to. Let me know if the sounds in the demo are similar to what you experienced, I'd be keen to hear your thoughts 👍
Have you tried changing the positions of the internal DIP switches? They can radically alter the performance of the Ravine, adjusting trails etc
What an obvious ripoff!
@@BobbyGeneric145 yup, demon FX are not subtle with their 'inspiration' for sure