Fashion Police: Safe Guarding vs. Freedom of Expression | with the Solid Ground Crew
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- I join the Solid Ground livestream on @theradicalcenter and we talk about the twitter dust-up over the appearance of a man in a dress at the @Genspect conference last week.
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Call me traditional but I think a man parading his bloody fetish being lauded at Genspect event is slightly iffy. Just saying.
Don’t super care but eliza mondegreen wrote this comment on Ovarit which I thought summed it up (clipped): “The objection isn't "we are very uncomfortable with gender-nonconformity!" It's: This man told us his fetish is getting dressed up in women's clothing and he made a deliberately provocative decision to show to a conference full of people who have been harmed by gender crap in what is for him, as he has publicly stated, fetish gear, no doubt for the thrills (thrills that have likely continued all week given the fallout...).”
Almost like a guy showing up and eating a hot dog at the vegan convention or something. I mean, come on, do you expect ppl not to react to that?
@@user-yc5lb8fw5r People were also making the point that the conference is aimed at helping children and teens with sex/gender dysphoria, and that his presence in that specific attire was not helpful nor appropriate in that light.
@@user-yc5lb8fw5r But isn’t his voice at said conference actually helpful, as he’s affirming that AGP is a thing? And why wouldn’t he wear the outfit that says this clearly? I guess I do think that perhaps there is a validity to him wearing it there as it’s his identity within the community. Actually, I can see both arguments.
@@WonderfulWorldofAwesomeness to be honest I don’t really have an opinion, I suppose people on the anti-side might say we already know AGPs exist, as does likely anyone who went to genspec, and he doesn’t need to parade it around a bunch of traumatized people.
I think the dopamine aspect is vital. The problem with transgression for dopamine is it is a moving target and you need ever greater transgressions over time. So when AGP is an addiction and benefits from exhibitionism, it is a collision course with social order.
Ah, "breaking bad", if you will. Well said. This is evident in the mass-porn phenomenon. Think about the difference in ability to break bad with a magazine in your bathroom, or an iphone, where the next step of degeneracy is a tap away...
Malignant narcissists can always appear as kind and great people in public. They put on a wonderful facade. They love to costume and pretend to be what they are not and tickle your ears. They gauge and read people. They become sympathetic characters. This act cannot be sustained in long term reality.
I appreciate this observation so much. This movement has really exposed some people I knew for many years who suddenly became very obviously sick when engaged in social media. I know I'm not alone in this experience. I think social media should be renamed as "virtual reality" because there's a definitive problem with calling something social, which has mostly antisocial overtones. Just a thought.
I'm not a rad fem persay but I do think that even if Phil is a chill guy, he was still getting people involved in his fetish without consent. I think Ben was thinking of the most overt sexual kink to compare it to which makes the boundaries less clear but a fetish is sexualizing something that's not typically sexual. Like I worked at a restaurant where this one woman would come in often, prefer one thing, then hangout all day. It turned out that her kink was watching people eat. Once you know something like that, you feel infringed upon because you know someone is using you as an object of their fantasies without your consent. And it's not that same as just being aroused by someone on the street and living your life or even having that kink but finding consensual spaces to act in it. She was going out of her way to involve strangers in her sexuality. Phil has been clear that that form of stress is sexual for him and so doing it really publicly is getting other people to participate in his kink.
It's scary how little the women were even aware of all this. They've been living under a rock for years now.
No one believes me this is happening.
They had men to protect them... they've been hamstrung.
Here is the practical reality, this used to be fringe behaviour done by small numbers of people in specific neighbourhoods of big cities and away from the awareness of normal people.
That has changed and now these degens are front and center in media and the latest wedge for leftists to push their dielectic.
The best outcome for all involved is for this behaviour to return to the fringes of society where all involved are seeking it out, normal sensible people are not dragged into the behaviour, and those involved aren't used as political pawns by woke cultists.
I also don't expect women to understand the sexuality of men, this disgust response you see from a lot of guys is because we can understand far more of that mindset than a woman can. It is absolutely not acceptable in polite society.
thank you
Based
💯
I agree. And can I add that degens wanting to be praised for discussing their perversion is weird. I’m actually shocked some women pushed back on it cause I notice women love to praise men for explaining why they’re disgusting 😂😂
You are expecting this evil to return to Pandora's Box like a lid can be put on something that has been normalized, legalized, medicalized and institutionalized.
Ben's reaction when the lady discussed indecent exposure in public on a train shows the difference in sexuality between men and women. It's like Ben has no idea how often this happens to women.
I mean, as a woman who doesn’t ride trains in New York, I also have no idea how often that happens.
@@brittybee6615 The main point of the OP's comment was to shame a man for not fully empathizing with women's fears
@@annarboriter but the point is also that our fears are not always justified. I can also name an opposite example for myself. I have been going to festivals on my own for the past 2,5 years. I camp out on my own, wear yoga leggings while dancing and no man has harassed me there.
@@mirageprincess2768 Your personal anecdote is still less persuasive than the data which show that men are overwhelmingly the victims of violence even though society in general is for more concerned about how safe women feel
@@annarboriter I assume you meant women are overwhelming the victims of violence? Yes I understand and it's logical because we are on average physically weaker, so if someone means harm it's easier to do harm. But now it's like a witch hunt on predatory men when that's not always fair. I don't think it's helpful to make women even more scared then they are. And if you are more scared, predators will actually pick up on it so it makes you more vulnerable. I would instead like to encourage women to look around and see which men could be on your side if you were harassed and make a plan to move towards those men for protection. Maybe it sounds stupid, but it helps I think to gain back a bit of control.
The way people reacted to Phil's presence/manner of dress may have also been influenced on how familiar they are with Phil's online statements, and contents of his book. If someone had zero knowledge of Phil then of course they may just see him in his blue dress as "fun" but if someone had read his book then maybe it's understandable they found it "disturbing"
Also it’s your show and you can do whatever you want obviously. but imo someone who had the other pov to give their side would have made this a more interesting discussion imo
We can basically presume what they're going to say. This trans thing and the acceptance of it came with the same Marxist indoctrination and demoralization efforts we've been seeing for a decade now. There are programmed answers being shared among their circles.
For me, its the context. Similar to queer books at the public library vs at an elementary school. The public library is for everyone. The school library is for little kids learning the 3 Rs.
Any man in erotic/tight etc women's clothes is highly inappropriate at a GC, detransitioners conference.
A man in weird clothing on a public street, or dance club etc. is fine.
A man in the women's section of the bathroom, locker room, sauna etc. Is predatory and gross.
A man at a nudist colony where everyone is naked is normal.
A man in a general support group is fine. A man in a women's DV group, or a man in a miscarriage group is predatory and disgusting.
Context is everything here.
A public street is not the same as a woman's bathroom but it is still not anything goes - young kids are also using the public street ffs
@@hollythebordercollie2257 Agree. But the rest of tpomero's comments were sound. Context matters - though those with a loose bowel libertarian streak will inevitably try to frame this as a lack of nuance. That's what they do. The 'I'm intellectually superior' card. What they're calling nuance is often just sophistry..
It’s kind of a weird video to have 4 women led by a man shitting on a diverse group of women who are fighting for women’s rights. I like lots of Boyce’s content but this is odd.
It’s on both channels and he isnt mean to be “leading” it. I think it’s because the 4 women have a channel and Leslie is his wife and they all 5 wanted to have a conversation about it. I don’t think he “lead” it but I do think he’s one of the most accustomed to talking about this topic so they let him talk a lot. I’m pretty sure all of the women were quite content with this or they would have spoken up. Also sometimes he starts with things such as “mind if I …” or “may I …” so I don’t feel he was steamrolling other people.
This is Leslie's show
I don't think Phil's AGP is the issue.. It's that he's impervious to feedback. He doesn't care if he's creeping people out.I don't get a predatory vibe. I get an "I don't give a shit that people are uncomfortable" vibe. I give people like that a WIDE berth. I'll take responsibility for my unwillingness to waste my time on folks like Phil. Seems to me that this is not on Genspect. It's on Phil to make some grown up decisions about how he will handle the feedback he has been given in the marketplace of sartorial choice, and it is on him to acknowledge he can't dictate the responses of others.
That's just his tism. It's also the only thing you can do when youre getting struggle sessioned by thousands of people simultaneously and all of your friends are disowning you.
How can you say his vibe is not predatory. How many predators actually walk around with a predator vibe?
Because I have spoke with him at length. YMMV, of course, but it's a better gauge of vibe than looking at a picture.
Talking with a person also doesn't reveal much I think. For instance, usually it's not obvious who a domestic abuser is, as they are often charming. People are shocked to find out and often don't believe the victim. You can work and be friends with these people and not know.@@BenjaminABoyce
Yeah, I switched that interview off half way thru. Maybe Phil didn't creep you out because you are not the type he is creeping on?
I remember doing the same thing, circular victim blaming arguments, shifting sands, very grating. Also, it's best if a predator comes off as affably odd, a little quirky, charmingly ineptitude so you have lowered defend es and lowered expectations plus you're primed to give him the benefit of the doubt...... He'd never be so crass to do it in front of you, he just doesn't realise what he's doing, if you feel uncomfortable, it's because you're projecting your own weirdness on to him...... You should do that work on yourself to get okay with it..... He told you what he was straight up so now you have no recourse if you're now seeing red flags..... Lundy Bancroft and Don Hennessey cover these absurer tactics well in their books....
What is this vibe that you sense which confers predator status? Is it just another word for penis?
My problem wasn't with his outfit, my problem was that he most likely knew the upset this would cause and did it anyway. It took the wind out of Genspect's conference's sails and I don't think he minds that. It propped his book. However nice and non-threatening he may be, Phil is out for Phil. Having said that, since finding out that he is autistic, there is a small chance that he actually didn't know this would upset people. I just wish we could all focus on the amazing positive things that came out of this groundbreaking gathering.
Exactly. why can't more men read women's minds? Or at least anticipate what they all might be thinking?
@@annarboriter I didn't mean it as a men/women issue. I think you missunderstood my comment.
@@mariepicard8385 uh, yeah, and you've done nothing to clarify. Yes, Phil was there because of his having written a book and because of his advocacy for AGP. And you didn't like that. What have I misunderstood?
@@annarboriter He's allowed to be there and promote his book. He just failed to read the room by dressing the way he did. Sure some women on line were upset, but at the conference, there were parents who's children were groomed by AGP's and detrans who were groomed and mistreated by AGP's. These are the people Genspect is fighting for. He could've showed up in regular clothes and not overshadowed all the positive aspects of the conference. Sure, he says that he wasn't aroused by wearing that particular dress, but there was no way for other attendees to know that. It's just a complicated mess.
@@mariepicard8385 Exactly! Why cannot men read the room before entering the room and always have an extra set of clothes on hand to change into what everybody can agree to as appropriate for attendees with their own agendas and victimization priorities? It's just such a simple thing to do #gynocentrism
Mr Illy was there to publicise his book and get his tedious rocks off. IMHO .
The Instagram model is doing it for male gratification and the cross dresser is doing it for male gratification. So…
I agree that there is an attack on intimacy, which is also an attack upon stability and communication in relationships.
Some interesting points about AGP vs Gay MtF transition. From what i read like 90% of MtF are AGP. Maybe i am wrong.
They make up the highest percentage of the population globally, especially in geographical countries
... (cont) where homosexuality is more accepted.
Most trans women are in denial about the existence of AGP, let alone whether they have it, so they would not report that information themselves.
I’ve seen Eva Kurilikova say that you two are actually friends, and I know that she is pretty much a traditional full on radfem (radical feminist) AND that she tries her best to be reasonable and not hateful/reactionary … would you two be willing and able to record a convo about AGP and Phil and his book and all the conversation about the Genspect tweet etc? I would really love to see that. I’m a woman but not a radfem, but a different type of feminist, but as a detrans/desisted person I do support discussing and understanding AGP and think it will help others not to transition unnecessarily. So all of this is very interesting and important to me. I’d like to hear one of the radfems who doesn’t tend to yell about stuff and fight with people / insult them!!! To me that seems to be Eva :)
PS thank you so much for your interviews that you did with Phil previously, they were super great :)
I’ve also read a little bit of her writing (intending to read more soon) and I know she has looked into the history of Tri Ess turning from crossdressing activism to transgender “umbrella” activism and all that. Also I saw her on a panel of 4 radfems watching and pausing to discuss one of your interviews with Phil. So I think she is *not* clueless on this subject (although I wish she would read his book too and become even more informed!). I think she’d be a really good guest for an interesting but not hateful conversation.
I second this. Eva would be great ❤
Oh goodie! love the group streams. Lots of good minds here, so listen up, hoomans 🐈
Benjamin and the ladies let’s go!
I see so many similarities with radical veganism.
Loved this conversation thank you Ben and everyone.
No, sorry, Ben, if you thought Phil's explanation of his fetish is a sexual orientation, I've got some desert land for sale where you can bottle water. Every time I hear these theories, I'm just amazed that ANYONE buys it at all...and I'm not saying anyone in this conversation does- but I'm just shocked sometimes. 😳
It’s not a “freedom of expression” issue anymore when somebody has openly admitted that dresses and skirts are used as fetish gear (!) by them. At that point wearing such clothes in public, especially around women and children, is obviously a sexual and predatory act. This really isn’t difficult.
I’m surprised to see you constantly shill for these types of men.
Also really liked the lady in the upper left hand corner, although it was a good conversation in general!
Yes, the wonderful Jodi Shaw if I’m not mistaken 😊
If Phil gets caught doing anything bad in the future the women who co signed his behavior are gonna feel really silly.
Despite not being on twitter I heard there was a shitstorm about Phil Illy being at Genspect. From what I've seen I can't help but respect the man's honesty at least, this should be an interesting conversation.
What is it with people “respecting honesty?” It’s such a bare minimum thing. How about respecting people who keep their fetish in their household and never bother anyone else with it.
Honestly about harmful behavior doesn't remove responsibilty to handle that problematic behavior.
" Being honest" or "Knowing ones faults" is often weaponized to continue inappropriate words and actions. Not ok.
@@nowwhat1434 The reason honesty is so valuable is because the world of today is packed full of liars and charlatans. If his work is correct and most transwomen are AGPs, what is it that makes Phil so offensive to you that a passing AGP transwoman doesn't have? If the fetish is what bothers you then the reason you feel differently isn't about your morals, it's that you were fooled by the latter and failed to apply the same standard.
I can work with an honest man I disagree with, I can have a conversation with them and there's possibility of change or agreement or at least boundaries. Snakes on the other hand are always a danger and that doesn't change simply because you're ignorant of them. Keeping personal life private and concealing intentions aren't the same thing.
All that being said I don't know how accurate Phil's assessment is, or even assuming that it is that most trans people know what's going on so I don't know where my stance is in certain places of the issue. The thing I can respect about Phil is that there's progress to be made towards deciding where I stand because honesty allows me to at least make informed judgements.
There are better conversations to be had about this , especially re the CONTEXT of the particular conference , and the problem of kink / fetish being used as a qualifier for a special privileged voice in the space where policy and medical practice about children and adolescents is discussed. It's a bigger problem than one person , and the immediate situation is partly a response to what might be a fairly surface signifier of what is a very serious and deep problem in that policy space. One that needs to be spoken about openly, and about which both genuine concerns and resentments have simmered and been suppressed for too long.
We need to talk about the problem of sexologist who are kinksters dominating the framing of discourses that drive shaping of children's and adolescents development.
...and that has a relationship to authors selling claims essentializing AGP (as an orientation) to vulnerable young teens and young adults , a subset of whom are suffering experience shaped ( and porn shaped) alienation and sexual target displacement that is not inevitably the destiny Phil is posing it to be.
I'd also agree with what Alisdair Gunn has previously posed , that adolescent/ young adult males who cross identify and cross present aren't all either HST or AGP, there are other pathways. The fire between Phil and some Radfems etc debating "AGP gate" , in fact each of their individual arguments , are distracting from the real dynamics at play re young male cross identity, and might even drive young people observing to further misperceive themselves as " true trans ", because this flaming exchange is re-selling a false dichotomy that hides real paths to understanding.
I'd add that Phil's ( intentional or otherwise ) use of certain boundary breaching signifiers ( not discussed here ), is also creating a clown stereotype of AGP which by contrast , for those who believe exclusively in the Blanchard dichotomy, would tend to encourage actually effeminate and or feminine ( perceived by others ) adolescent males to see themselves as " true trans " by contrast. I don't think Phil's performance and argument (as a package) is going to convince one single confused young man that they are AGP and not trans , not even ( or maybe especially not ) the subset who may have AGP obsessions.
We need to talk about these issues in a more a more contextualised way , especially the current situation and the history of sexology and kinksters framing how children and young people are understood, what they are taught about themselves , and how medicine and society respond to them.
I'll add that there is apparent social boundary breaching in the photo that hasn't been discussed at all, and has nothing to do with a dress nor with gender conformity. Let's remember that there were other males in dresses at the conference , and in photos , and ONE display only evoked an extreme response from MANY women. There are reasons for that can be appreciated without endorsing policing of clothing in ordinary contexts ( or even at conferences).
Phil might be a great guy and I don’t think it was up to Genspect to police anyone’s attire. But the fact that he was wearing a semi-formal outfit to a conference-where most people were dressed casually-comes off as being deliberately provocative. It seems entirely legitimate to express discomfort with Genspect’s giving Phil special attention. Some women might even suspect that a man in a stand-out dress was mocking their gender critical sensibilities. As I say, I don’t know Phil’s intentions, but it’s unfair to disrespect the folks who objected.
My colleagues and I have collectively spent decades contemplating the ins and outs of feminism. Many times we've worked tirelessly through the night, studiously pondering the subject. My colleagues all agree that our unpaid labour is as serious as it is scientifically rigorous. I'd like to unpack our theory for you now.
We call it the Ice Cream Theory, also known as ICT. If you think I C T sounds like a refreshing beverage, you'd be histaken. Feminism is like ice cream.
First there is vanilla feminism; this is the type most gender-critical terfs fall into. This flavour is marketed mostly for its sex-based grift.
Then you have chocolate feminism. This flavour is marketed mostly for its intersectional, race-based grift.
Then you have Neapolitan feminism. This is the type most of the woke/trans and a sizeable portion of the alphabet mafia belong to. This flavour borrows heavily from the others but happens to also be chock full of nuts. Like the other flavors here, you'll find talk of the pink tax, the wage gap, gender roles, male fragility, inclusivity, diversity, white fragility, white supremacy, oppression, and not just bland vanilla patriarchy but the cis-hetero-normative white patriarchy. Our collective research analysis seems to indicate oppressed victims have a need to point to others' fragility. We feel its basis is adjacent to "I know you are, but what am I?" If you want the most bang for your buck, this flavour is queen. Or, if you rather, yas queen slay.
This theory may also help to explain why feminists used to be notoriously out of spoons. Many have called our work groundbreaking, but that's not the word we'd use. Groundbreaking conjures up sordid, toxically masculine imagery of the phallic shovel digging into the giving Gaia. I, as well as my colleagues, prefer the term revolutionary. They are progressive, they are on the right side of herstory, and their destiny shall be womanifest
The boundaries are interesting. For example, sometimes women are just giving too much with the type of leggings they're wearing, and of course it's more noticeable if their bodies are super bodacious, but seeing *any* man in leggings (who's not onstage) would be horrifying. It's so naive the way we go around as if displaying body parts in certain ways doesn't carry power with it. I see it in so many realms now. In honor of fairness and equality, we've lost all sense of reason.
Ben was on fire in this 🔥
The pill impacts our women's instincts, and takes away fears that protect us
Just another reason I promote non hormonal IUDs.
No unwanted sex trophies, no chemicals in the water that turn the freakin' frogs gay.
I agree with Leslie about the medicalizing piece and Illy not having medicalized making his agp less worrisome, but Illy also says that if he could pass better, he probably would medicalize, thus perhaps directly or indirectly advocating for childhood transition/puberty blockers and thus encouraging medicalization after all.
Radfem is not a religion or an ideology.It is more like a set of methods
True, every cult has a set of methods
This was fun
Nice conversation. I am definitely on the side of: more flexible gender expression, less medicalization. But its nuanced, for sure.
One phenomenon, multiple phenomena. Get it right, Boyce! You're triggering me!
a distinction without a differance
@@BenjaminABoyce I bet your wives would disagree!
"tack" Benjamin. Not "tact". It's a nautical term having to do with the direction of the sails and the wind.
"tact" uncleskipsprariejustice9367. Short for "tactic," which is a gaming term for an action or strategy devised to achieve a specific end.
Missed most of this. Tuned into the twitter chat on AGP that was just going nowhere, came here late. But I'm HERE NOW. I tried.
Concerned that non of the panel seem to be not taking men displaying fettish without concent!
love that end rant!
when you kinda get married is that a half-hearted getting married
The problem with radical feminism is that it's identity politics. It'll always be flawed if it has no space to account for individualism. According to radical feminism, some single dad in Yorkshire making ends meet has more power than and is the oppressor of Oprah Winfrey simply by the circumstance of being male. It's a very flawed ideology at its core, but it has very useful insights. For example, deconstruction of penetration by Andrea Dworkin is really an amazing piece of work and hits the nail on the head. Just as with intersectionality, radical feminist ideology has some really fantastic insights, but fails when taken as wholesale ideology. It should be used as a method to analyse texts and specific social phenomena, but not as a comprehensive way to understand society as a whole.
Highheels and dresses, good. Men in dresses, bad.
Im a fan of dress codes. From what I see of Dave Greene et al and their Scyldings conferences they have attendees dress in formal attire. I can't say I know how the 'logistics' would work for those who've already been down some step of the medical transitioning "process" though. Regardless, in general I think formal attire sets the tone, puts people in a mindset to get things done, and just looks good optically. Looking normal is just a good all around
I don't ever hear anyone objecting to formal wear dress codes on party invitations. Anyone objecting is free not to attend so dress codes for serious conferences are not a bad idea. Especially the Genspect sort that will attract men who want to push boundaries. Like another commenter said - like bringing your hot dog to eat at the vegan gathering.
This freedom to express oneself is liberal, small 'l', bs in the context of the very serious matter of protecting children and mothers and others from the savage consequences of gender ideology. BB has a bee in his bonnet.
‘Dust up over the appearance of a man in a dress’. Oh, Ben 🤦♀️
Congratulations!
40:16 - it’s not just fashion sometimes. There are two guys who walk around the Castro district of San Francisco, both wearing leather chaps and nothing else, except one who is wearing a leash around his junk and being lead around by that leash by the other one. And I’m not talking about this happening on a Friday night. We’re talking Tuesday afternoon. And they don’t stick to Castro Street proper, they walk around the neighborhood. Anyone can pass them on their way to some other area. I’ve seen them while on the employee shuttle back home from my healthcare job. Listen, whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is fine. But once you take it out into the street it does involve me, as you’re involving me in order to get off on the involvement of me. Even if everyone looks away, these dudes know people are seeing this. And I don’t want to see it. I didn’t consent to seeing some old fat dudes junk. And yes, the fact that they’re old and fat does play a role, I’ll admit.
The comment about staring at a woman in the supermarket in yoga pants degenerated into creepiness and humiliating his wife. She may not have seen it this way but why did BB need to foreground talk about needing to hide his desires for other women while in a group of women. No gentleman
allowing your limbic system to be aroused by every passing woman in a supermarket undermines intimacy - a choice of fantasy over reality and the relationship with your wife
54:00 Benjamin, you’re mistaking the attraction for the fulfilment of the attraction. It’s one thing to be attracted to idea of having sex with a woman / the idea of being a woman. It’s completely different to act out that attraction. In one case that would be to have sex with the woman, in the other that would be to wear women’s clothing and long hair, etc.
I'm against the pill too
The pill messed this woman UP. What's funny tho is they gave me one that was androgen based to clear my skin up and left me on it too long, that made me feel better than the other pills funnily enough but they freaked out like mad when they realised.
Yes. Other methods of non-hormonal contraception work just as well, if the pair cooperate.
@@meretriciousinsolentI’ve never heard of that! I wonder the name and the dose. I gotta try to look this up!!! Did it have any effects that one would expect from Testosterone? Or not really noticeable in that way / too small of a dose? I’ve heard of some females “microdosing” testosterone (they IDed as non binary) but I’m gonna guess their dose was still much larger than this birth control androgen situation.
@@carolynbrightfield8911 They work well if their biology works on textbook timing in the first place.
I like promoting non hormonal IUDs. No unwanted sex trophies, and no chemicals inthe water that turn the freakin' frogs gay.
They get offended about being offended.
10:00 Oh that reaction is just golden! 😂
1:00:00 He used my line! Touch Grass or Your WIfe's Ass!! Get grounded in the real people!
37:30 they are doing that. I reckon they’re the same people telling men what to wear as tell women what to wear. Women have been fired for wearing yoga pants to work because it was deemed “inappropriate”.
Older women tell younger women not to dress “provocatively” and tell men not to dress in a “predatorily”.
My opinion is that people sound be able to wear whatever they want. Id rather there be AGP males who know they’re men and wearing dresses, than them being convinced to cut off their genitalia.
Gratz on kinda getting married. Oh and the beach!
There are rad fems who characterize "the patriarchy" as negative and harmful and some who do not. Oddly, some who belong to the group that sees the patriarchy as harmful are also amongst the group promoting gender ideology and also amongst those objecting to it.
They never cared about any of that stuff. It was all just obvious and open resentment against men and personal responsibility. As a general rule, every single group is always lying about their motivations, which are always in reality one of the 7 deadly sins
Are you suggesting that feminism somehow be internally logical?
@@annarboriter I frequently joke about the intersection of women's rights and Islamophobia.
First
You need to get a life. 😆
You think you are ALL that _and_ a bag of chips, huh?😾Well, you ARE... so take _that_ !
@@NinjaKittyBonks are you 12 years old?
@@grosbeak6130 No. He is an old man who pretends to be a cat. So much worse.
@@grosbeak6130 ... Kitty years are 6 of hoomans, so I am about 10 weeks old 😸
34:44
Or maybe it’s just me.
My cognitive dissonance is on display because I cant figure out whether I hate the AGP or the resentful feminists more. I would rather not hate anybody, but I think I'm gonna go with the feminists.
This channel is dying an abject death, very sad
This channel provides excellent conversations without vitriol.
Radfem hate admitting to vulnerability
If events police what people wear, what about the 'kilt'? Technically, it's a skirt on a male and they don't wear underpants as far as I know. I live somewhere where these are worn ceremoniously like in weddings and parades. Why would that be okay but a dress wouldn't be? Plus, I have seen other forms of clothing in cultures in males that could equate to being 'dress-like'.
I just read an article on Substack that covered the rest of the conference without reference to the blue dress. It looked like a good event. Why is it always a blue dress that causes controversy? 😂
All males need to report to the next Highland Games! They will wear traditional kilts and toss logs! It’s somewhat equivalent to a strong man contest. 🌻
The problem is that the man in question is a self-described AGP. These men get sexual gratification from wearing dresses and skirts, especially in public around other people. It’s fetish clothing for them. This is the reason why he wore that outfit and the reason why women are angry at Genspect atm.
Men in Scotland wearing traditional clothes or even gay (or straight) men wearing dresses and skirts as a way to express gender non-conformity are obviously fine and welcome. As far as I’m aware, there even was a gay man wearing a dress at that event and no one bothered him.
Boyce and company are purposely misrepresenting us for some reason.
@lmr1049 I have been told that he was there as a member of the public. He wasn't there as a guest speaker, so I don't understand how he was promoting his book. There could have been many AGP there since it takes place in the same city as WPATH. I guess if you didn't know anything about him, you wouldn't care if he was wearing a dress. Do AGPs continuously get off the whole day? I am a bit confused at how that is possible. I am not trying to discredit other points of view. I sincerely want to understand. I don't think it's the same as publicly arousing oneself, which I have encountered many times growing up in a big city. I also had a friend gropped by a passerby. There was a man in my city who dressed like a man from the waist down, but like a man from the waist up. He stood out at the time, but 12 years later, when I moved back, he was doing the same dressing up thing. I imagine it was a kink, but I don't think you could control what other people do. I would prefer not being dictated about what to wear in public so I prefer not to do such a thing. For instance, if I was told I had to wear a bikini around other people, it would make me uncomfortable. I just think that the only reason people are actually upset is about his book and not so much his dress. There appeared to be so many other important things that happened at the event that are being sidelined for something so ridiculous.
At an Anglican church conference I was at, a few men of Scottish heritage wore kilts. There was one black gay dude who took advantage of this and also wore a kilt, in a much more flamboyant way than the Scots were wearing it. It was cringe but nobody really said anything about it. The Scots took pictures with him.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
I think we can thank Trump for such extreme victim- centered tirades.
@suedavis1781... WTF are you talking about?!?!?!? You are gonna have to lay this one out for me... I'll wait.
@@NinjaKittyBonks I love your sarcastic tone. Thanks! I wasn't talking about this group of interesting conversants. I was thinking about the people who demand to be acknowledged and who give no quarter to different views.
@@suedavis1781 ... Are you referring to the TDS of those tirades? OK, that makes more sense. I took you to mean they were Trump supporters and going off on WOKE tirades.
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The Kitty was all.... whuuuu?😹