I hope you enjoyed the video. I wrote it before the Bolt recall happened so that is not mentioned here. I'll do a video on it if people like this one. For other content on Energy, check out this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLKtxx9TnH76Tx1hDbCjyMiQZITz9Xq_Fw.html
These days LG has become synonymous with Bolt fires and Hyundai fires. Was just wondering why the video made no mention at all. We'll wait for the sequel. Cheers.
Great video. Could you do a video on mining companies? It would be interesting as they are talked about more from a supply chain perspective and geopolitical reasons
Another excellent, highly informative video... The polished, objective delivery of facts and statistics shames Canada's and the US's biggest for-profit media companies...
8:00 small correction on 4680. Tesla is only about to produce this large in quantities or put in a product around next year. The Tesla buildings to manufacture the 4680 is only about to get finished while the subcontracts to LG, Samsung, CATL are still in production testing. They dropped the zero as Elon doesnt like it, or is meaningless
Well the 4680 and 18650 are the same thing just that 4680 is larger so equal amount more power but a little bit less metal casing so a fraction better. I think that Tesla wants the better cooling/heating abilities with the metal cells but eventually I think in the end prismatic will win out simply to reduce manufacturing cost and time. The biggest issue with EV is just how long it takes to make the batteries but their cooling in a more performance car like Tesla is also a consideration so maybe cylinders work better for them.
I am not even sure the end "0" actually means cylindrical. It makes little sense to use a number for shape, and this labeling is used for button cells where some do measure tenth of milimeter in thickness.
@@musaran2 i agree. Elon got rid of it because no one uses the last digit. from my best knowledge, the next larger cell from the 18650 is 20700 then 21700....
@@robertlee6338 4680 is better than 18650 because batteries aren't lumber. They aren't just one material you chop up into any size. Larger battery = more actual battery chemicals with less casing material, therefore less wasted space and weight. The 4680 format also has internal structural differences (tabless) to reduce internal resistance and improve cooling.
Great video, but 5:50 is simply incorrect, LG manufacture whole packs for the Geely group in Korea and ship them for EV manufacture to the likes of Volvo in Sweden and LEVC in the UK, I know because I worked with the latter. Also some of your assumptions around cell types are incorrect - when it comes to a system level you can't "stuff more" pouch cells in the same space as they require additional cooling and management versus cylindrical, and as the big recall showed they're also relatively fragile.
@T C Don't pay attention to CCP 5 cent army. Ultium, GM and LG joint venture, battery is more accurate. But, it is a LG technology, and Ultium is in learning curve similar to Tesla and Panasonic were few years ago. All lithium batteries have fire hazard and some brands get more publicity than the other.
@T C in electric car the battery as the more important part of the car, we all agree in that, so it's the car get burn the car is a disaster,I know that the battery are LG but the damage is already done
Additional big update to LG Energy is their construction of 1.1 Billion USD - joint venture with Hyundai - EV battery plant in Karawang, West Java, Indonesia, which just began mid-September (15/09/21). They planned for 10 GWh battery production annually starting 2024, all of which is exclusively reserved for, unsurprisingly, Hyundai (in nearby Cikarang, which is currently under trial production phase, and expected to commence production in 2022. The old Hyundai Plant in Bekasi will be converted into contract assembly plant for other brands) & KIA.
@@khaizatulzaika3510 really? All my top brand cordless power tools use Samsung and LG lithium batteries. None of them catches fire and cordless tools demand higher current, higher capacity and faster charging per cell than EVs. EVs use more batteries per unit so EV batteries require lower price per kw than cordless tools. I use Milwaukee and some Dewalt. I define best technology as best performance at best price. Panasonic is good but lacks high capacity and best price to performance. I do use CATL for off grid solar battery farm, not optimal yet but best.
GMs investigation couldn't find out how the fire exactly was caused. GMs finding is based on suggestions. Same as Hyundai. LG Chem never confirmed their claims
@T C Switched out when? LG is trickling out batteries for bolt battery replacements. The dispute is certainly slowing down replacements. Most bolts owners are still waiting for batteries and it could take more than a year to get a replacement.
At 7:43 you are showing a picture of fake and dangerous 18650 cells (targeted at unwary consumers). Actual cells from reliable manufacturers have at most 3500 mAh capacity. Any seller claiming more than that cannot be relied on. They mostly sell very low quality, defective or recycled cells that are claimed to be new. This poses massive safety risks.
"spending billions on R&D" doesn't always seem to mean much. some of these companies claim to spend so much on R&D but end up just copying the market leader or popular product.
R and d is also a lottery u can spend alot and get nothing. I remember during the first few years of apple with the iphone, nokia was outspending them in r and d like 2 to 1 but apple was just crushing the market.
Whenever the Koreans say they are *spending billions on R&D* please be reminded that it includes truckloads of salt. Anyone familiar with the way the Koreans run their companies know that the Koreans' notion of R&D is but a way to siphon off huge amount of $$$ into their own personal accounts.
@@clocktower1164 and yet they have some of the most high tech and competitive companies in the world So if thats how it works there, imagine how worse it is elsewhere.
LG's quality control has always tended to be lower than other companies. It sucks because they make extremely great products at really great prices. My household has had several LG 4K 27" monitors for several years now, and they're so great! I recommend them to everybody. Great image quality, and very cheap. One monitor developed a delamination issue (red corners) which some people on Twitter also had. But panel was replaced for free under warranty, and I haven't had any issues with the other 3 monitors. I find LG makes good (to great) products, but tends to have bad (to terrible) quality control. Samsung are definitely far better in this regard. Also, interestingly enough they both tend to manufacture in South East Asia (Thailand, Malaysia etc) rather than in China.
@@shazmosushiLG may have slightly lower quality control than Samsung, but compared to any other Japanese brand LG has outperformed. I personally liked that LG has moved out of China. The fact you had problem with LG in the past but not any more is the proof. LG had a assembly factory in China but not any more.
I remember being in college around the time advances in lithium-ion batteries made EVs more viable because up until then there had been a reliance on ultracapacitors to store and dump enough energy on demand for appreciable acceleration.
7:00 "an electrolyte that facilitates the flow of electrons back and forth between the cathode and the anode" AIUI in the electrolyte there is a flow of charged ions. When the battery discharges the positively charged cations move to the cathode and negatively charged anions move to the anode. The electrons flow outside the battery from the anode to the cathode (where the recombine with the positively charged ions).
14:48 definitely worth it as there isn't much batteries to go around for next several or 10 years. this the reason Panasonic sold all their Tesla stocks to gain cash for expansion, or in other words they will make more money producing batteries than hold that Tesla stock. However, I have concerns with LG's/GM strategy on pouch cells. while the format is great for everything, it is the least safe and reliable for rough applications. Consider that DJI drones could abandon the pouch cell through a leaked manual and might use the 18650 in their upcoming, latest DJI Mavic Pro drone. They always have used pouch cells but is too prone for bulging/expanding due to the abuse drone batteries take. Cordless power tools and vacuums also use the cylindrical format for a long time. To improve the format's shortcomings, it has to be bigger which I think Tesla got right.
How do tech-transfers work if one companies "jumps into bed" with various other companies? I.e. if there's Ford-LG tech-transfer, and another LG-Volkswagen tech-transfer, how would the carmakers protect their IP from travelling through LG to the other?
@8:05 you stated that Tesla is using 4680 batteries. not yet true, that was their plan announced on battery day. The original series of cars. Model S and X are thought to still use 18650 cylindrical cells, like the original Roadster. the second generation (Model 3 and Y) use 2170 cylindrical cells, except the Made in China Model 3 standard range plus, which is using LiFEPo cells... unclear on the format of those. Tesla is still working on the 4680, and it expected to debut in Model Y coming from Germany or Texas (two new factories being built.) perhaps early next year? They are still ironing out the production process.
Re the numbering system for the batteries You say the first two numbers are the circumference in one then the diameter in the second. Is this so or are they both one or the other? I see the problem now. You say the 18650 is 18mm wide but write that it is 18mm around.
Nice video. Curious to know how the ups and downs of China-Korea relations affect the performance of LG Energy. China has been known to impose punitive economic pressure on Korea, like when SK deployed THAAD, but I'm not sure if it really affected this firm/sector?
It wasn't SK but Lotte. Lotte sold/leased the land to US military so US can deploy THAAD missile defense for US troops in Korea. Lotte could not operate their department stores and other business in China, so they sold (ran) away from China. Lotte is a South Korean company owned by Japanese nationals, if I remember correctly.
Prismatic does not mean "highly varied". Prismatic means "having the form of a prism". "prism" is simply a name for a specific class of geometric bodies. Cuboids are a subtype of prism and these cells are cuboids.
-atic suffix does not imply form. prismatic would imply cells that can be arranged so that two faces of the cell are not bound by being parallel to each other.
@@w0ttheh3ll Do not rely on sources you can't trust. Do not bias by picking a result that backs up your thinking. -atic means "in the nature of" or if you like "in the spirit of" "automatic" by your thinking would have the form of auto when this is clearly not the case.
WRT battery sizes and regarding the superfluous "0" appended to the 18650... In dem olden days the cell sizes referred to button or coin sized cells. The thickness was measured to two decimal places eg. 2032 = 20mm dia 3.2mm thick and 1616 is 16mm dia and 1.6mm thick. With the thicker / longer cells the fractional digit served no purpose and has been quietly dropped.
I would argue that hexagonal would be much space-compact than a circle. But all we see are those cylindrical batteries and not that hexagonal tower form factor.
@@rashidisw Cylindrical has the pressure advantage; think high pressure gas cylinders. Look at the other formats, Prismatic and Pouch, they both suffer from swelling; you may have seen that in your older phones.
This analysis is detached from reality. Pouch cells are death traps. Q1 21 are irrelevant in the light of the Chevy Bolt recalls. LG may very well not survive this disaster
Correction: Tesla hasn't yet put 4680 cells into cars sold to consumers. Soon, they will, but it hasn't happened yet. They are using 18650 cells in Model S and X, and 2170 cells in Model Y and 3. An open question is whether Tesla will use 4680 cells from outside suppliers. Several suppliers have announced plans to produce cells in the 4680 form-factor, but I don't think Tesla has signed any contracts for those cells yet. Tesla will itself manufacture 4680 cells, but their appetite for cells is enormous, so sourcing cells from outside the company is a possibility. No other automaker uses cylindrical cells, as of yet. Batteries are indeed a dynamic business. Tech is advancing. It's a growth industry, but also an industry in the throes of disruption. There will be winners. There will be losers. Perhaps one of the most interesting questions to be answered is whether one of the three form-factors for automotive battery cells will come to dominate the market. My guess is that before 2030, pouch cells will be gone from the market, and prismatic won't be very far behind. Prismatic cells are hard to mass-produce, therefore command a price premium; and pouch cells suffer from hot spots and therefore cycle life and fire concerns. Neither lend themselves to structural cell-to-pack designs. When a manufacturer claims prismatic cells can be used in cell-to-pack designs, they are leaving out the word 'structural.' A structural cell-to-pack design relies on the rigidity of a cylindrical cell can for structural strength. Just epoxy the cans and there's no need other structural components. Prismatic cells lay in trays; you can make the trays structural but not the cells. So a prismatic cell-to-pack design is going to weigh more than a cylindrical cell-to-pack design. Energy density at the pack level will be worse. When cost is factored in, I don't think prismatic cells will provide automakers with a competitive advantage. The hot spot problem for pouch cells has been highlighted in the news, of late. GM has told all Bolt owners not to charge their cars unsupervised - even overnight slow-charging - or to park their cars within 50 feet of other cars. That is an absurd, extreme warning. Meanwhile GM and LG-Chem are battling over who is responsible for the problem and how to fix it. *Someone* is going to take a gigantic financial hit from this. Meantime, the Bolt production line is shut down, and that will affect LG-Chem's sales. I think there is a danger that pouch and prismatic manufacturing investments may be abandoned before the end of the decade. Tesla's patented dry-coating electrode technology is also a threat to LG-Chem and the other cell manufacturers. With this tech, driers are eliminated. Tesla can manufacture electrodes faster from smaller production lines and reduce per-KWh costs, reduce waste and reduce capital investment costs. I think the other cell manufacturers will either have to license the tech from Tesla or fail to be cost-competitive with their cells. I think LG-Chem is overvalued in the market right now, given the risk of abandoned investments and the Bolt situation. But that's just an opinion.
@T C Solid state - to date, after decades of research - has never yet been commercialized. It's one of those ideas that *sounds* good, but is hard to actually *make* good. When contemplating *any* candidate battery technology in the world's laboratories, know that *most* of them will *never* attain commercialization. They will stumble on one of two points: performance isn't good enough, or they can't be made cheaply enough to compete with current-tech commercial batteries. Solid state has long suffered from both problems: poor cycle life and insanely expensive production costs. I don't predict that solid state will never achieve commercialization. Or that it will. It's a bird in the bush. Maybe it will come light on my hand, maybe it won't. It's okay to be enthusiastic about the *possibility* that solid state will make it to market. But certainty is the fool's error.
@T C Late 2022 to early 2023 is near term in the auto industry. It's a massive business, and it takes time to bring a new product to the market at scale.
@T C Granted. But it's still a mistake to express certainty about the outcome of research. Fact is, it hasn't proved to be commercially viable *yet.* Solid state is chasing a moving target, y'know. Energy density and cycle life are improving for liquid electrolyte batteries. It's not a foregone conclusion that solid state will bust through and deliver something better. Maybe! I hope so! But let's not eat our chicken sandwiches before the eggs are laid.
@T C This *is* the auto industry, y'know. It's perfectly normal for an automaker to take 6 years from prototype to commercial availability. Those *other* automakers usually water down the finished product, too - it's nothing like the prototype. (Mercedes, I'm looking at you!) Tesla *improves* the commercial version beyond what the prototype shows; they've done that consistently. In the auto industry, late 2022 or early 2023 *is* soon. These are complex products with vast numbers of parts and manufacturing processes, and those parts and processes *all* have to be ready, or nothing gets produced. So new products reaching market is a sluggish proposition. *All* automakers have to struggle with this, not just Tesla. In what universe is 2026 'soon' and late 2022/early 2023 'not soon?' Solid Power is working on prototypes. Hand-built in a lab. I'm *happy* that they are doing this work. I'm *hopeful* that they will deliver a product to market that beats competitive batteries. That would be *great!* But prototypes are easy. Manufacturing is hard. We'll see how they will do. Expressing certainty about that outcome isn't wise. It's a definite 'maybe.'
The world will change radically if we can make the next big jump in storage versus price and weight. It's a game changer, but we aren't quite there yet.
If you are doing on rolling battery fire hazard, you should also do its opposite and do the BYD Blade battery (LFP) that have the unfortunate inability to catch on fire even after nail puncture, overcharged 260%, heated to 572F, rolled over by a semitruck. Compared to LG Chem's battery that can catch on fire if you look at it the wrong way.
BYD battery are super boring. They cannot do anything except for energy storage. The Korean battery, on the other hand, are super fun ! Other than the boring job of storing up energy, the Korean battery also produce all kinds of sparkles !
Maybe not to him, since they only use cylinders. Where as company like LG, Panasonic or CATL absolutely has use for it since they might have a 4680 prismatic cell or a 4680 pouch cell. Specially pouch sell, say where it would be _this tall_ and _this wide_ pouch. So to them 0 is "this is from cylinder model series" instead of say a "46802" pouch cell (don't actually really know what their naming convention on pouch cells, but as example)
Pouch seems to have too many inherent advantages over cylindrical to lose out. Too many connections to go wrong & wasted space. Each pouch cell can be very large & the cell interconnects can be continuously flawlessly printed into cell arrays of any voltage during manufacture. Absent is that all types are good & bad. EVs will have a mix - cheap capacity regular & fast charge/discharge e.g. for regen/passing vs charge/cruising.
Nice vid, thanks! The only way LG will stay solvent and competitive is if they quickly transition over to LFP battery chemistry as their NMC batteries are catching on fire, all too often, and they're paying billions to replace them. NMC is garbage chemistry and needs to go away, asap. LFP is great for now, but we need to quickly move to solid-state prismatic cells for the future.
@@Asianometry don't mean to be so hard on you, but you have more content on Taiwan and SK is at least as important as Taiwan in the region, if you want to claim to be a channel about the region you should have more SK content. Just say'in.
@@edwardkim8972 and Japan. Japan is still the technology leader among Asian technology. If Asianometry is to be true Asian technology news, then more Japanese and Korean content should be included. So far Asianometry is a Chinese diaspora technology. Asianometry, you need Korean and Japanese native speakers to translate Korean and Japanese technology news for you. Most of them are not translated to English. Asianometry is valuable for Chinese speaker perspective of technology world. And, news from India, Pakistan, Australia, Iran, and Turkey are never mentioned. Are they in Asia?
@@thor8086 I would agree that Japan still leads East Asia in technology and Asianometry should do more Japan content too. Asianometry, despite its inclusive name, is too Sinocentric IMHO.
@@thor8086 functionally... Asianometry is East Asian centric, particularly the sintic origin countries. However, East Asia leads most of Asia's technological development, so a lack of coverage of south Asia, Southeast Asia and the Middle East shouldn't be criticized, but a lack of coverage of Japan and South Korea should be criticized... otherwise, it should just change its name to Sinticometry instead of Asianometry since "Asian'-ometry would clearly be false advertising.
@@odaialzrigat american companies are on the very top of the supply chain mostly on operating systems, chip design, and every major company that wants semiconductors place their orders with them and they in turn give orders to fabs like tsmc smic or global foundries, american firms also hold most of the advanced IP
@@odaialzrigat in recent years china's IC industry specifically Huawei's HiSillicon has been a competitor with american firms such as Qualcomm which is part of the reason other than 5g why huawei got sanctioned so hard. In my opinion this would only hurt china in the short term and america is really helping china become self reliant and form its own complete semicondutor supply chain
@@sophisticatedthumb5364 but that self reliance came with price if there any disruption in china , even slightest china will ended up like india chip plant.
Tesla chose 18650 because what was made plentifully, easily and the number one factor cheaply at the time. Panasonic was the leader at the time with these cylindrical cells, as used in laptops.
Tesla is not yet using 4680 - they are still to come. Video is a bit misleading on that. Also Chevy recently recalled a large number of Volts which will cost a couple of billions USD. Chevy points it's due to LG Chems batteries causing fire
18650 is what the market has settled on. They are small enough to fit inside handheld appliances, have enough capacity for said appliances and are cheap enough to manufacture. So, the market has raised demand for the 18650 and as such, scale of production has made them even cheaper to manufacture. When something so small, powerful and inexpensive floods the market the market will find more ways to use them. For instance, they are almost mutually exclusively used in E-bike and E-scooter battery packs. With one-size-fits-all the assembly, service and reliability all profits from it. Imagine if everything in this world was unique... Imagine if a Toyota had the brake pedal where the accelerator pedal is...
Could you make one about Chimei? Chimei could be the Taiwan equivalent of Samsung or LG. On plastics like ABS they are well known, but for some reason their electronics and appliances are not.
Seriously, the LG made EV battery fires 🔥 saga is almost 2 years long now… They have lost confidence of some EV automakers switching to other suppliers. How in the world could you leave this out of your video…
Unfortunately your interesting, informative videos is already out of date, there is a significant move towards using LFP Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in EVs now, even Tesla have stated this which to my mind makes companies like BYD with their unique LFP Blade batteries far more relevant for the future, LG have a lot of catching up to do.
Its a question of price vs range. Tesla is moving to li iron phosphate batteries in china and for thier cheaper range cars. For higher price level they will still use other types bc it has higher chatge that can be stored ie greater range.
Yes range was an issues but it appears BYD are talking about significant range increases too around 600kms which is going to be more than enough for most, akso BYD are using 800v fast charge technology of around 25min to 80% which is ahead of Tesla so that’s not an issue!
Unfortunately I think you are a little blinded by bias but you may prove me wrong, however if a seriously good quality EV car arrives on your doorstep at a significant price advantage with all the latest 800v technology and a lifetime 1,000,000 km warranty on the battery do you really think the market is going to walk away from it, yes Tesla will be a major player in the high end market but it would be wrong to discount those like BYD to begin taking the affordable share of the EV market that Tesla does not address
You may not be aware but Toyota’s and Subarus initial range of EVs are all based fully on BYDs EV battery, chassis and software, also Mercedes have signed a deal with BYD too as well as a number of others so can I encourage you to take a wider look at the changes ahead
VW is going to use LFPs only in their entry lvl cars such as id.2/1. NMCs will remain in middle and high end models. luxury brands will be nmcs only at least outside of china
I hope you enjoyed the video. I wrote it before the Bolt recall happened so that is not mentioned here. I'll do a video on it if people like this one. For other content on Energy, check out this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLKtxx9TnH76Tx1hDbCjyMiQZITz9Xq_Fw.html
Ah, I wondered about that.
These days LG has become synonymous with Bolt fires and Hyundai fires. Was just wondering why the video made no mention at all. We'll wait for the sequel. Cheers.
Great video 👍 Dude
If you wrote it before the Bolt recall, you could have re-do the video before you post it.
There is also the Hyundai Kona recall that involves LG batteries made in their Nanjing plant
Didn't mention the Bolt recall...
Great video. Could you do a video on mining companies? It would be interesting as they are talked about more from a supply chain perspective and geopolitical reasons
Another excellent, highly informative video... The polished, objective delivery of facts and statistics shames Canada's and the US's biggest for-profit media companies...
Someone needs to take risks and find ways to make batteries cause nobody in North America does. Go LG !!!
China is doing a decent job
Hey there is this cool company called Tesla that makes batteries! You might have heard of them!
@@shallowabyss515 i dont think tesla makes batteries yet...they buy batteries from panasonic catl and lg
@@uncleho3085 Then you are remarkably misinformed.
@@shallowabyss515 besides the obvious player in the game. Tesla as a company struggled to get where they are will lots of sweat and lost sleep.
Good video. Jest expected some mention of the Chevy Bolt/Hyundai Kona issues where blame's been put on the LG cells and their manufacture.
8:00 small correction on 4680. Tesla is only about to produce this large in quantities or put in a product around next year. The Tesla buildings to manufacture the 4680 is only about to get finished while the subcontracts to LG, Samsung, CATL are still in production testing. They dropped the zero as Elon doesnt like it, or is meaningless
Well the 4680 and 18650 are the same thing just that 4680 is larger so equal amount more power but a little bit less metal casing so a fraction better. I think that Tesla wants the better cooling/heating abilities with the metal cells but eventually I think in the end prismatic will win out simply to reduce manufacturing cost and time. The biggest issue with EV is just how long it takes to make the batteries but their cooling in a more performance car like Tesla is also a consideration so maybe cylinders work better for them.
I am not even sure the end "0" actually means cylindrical.
It makes little sense to use a number for shape, and this labeling is used for button cells where some do measure tenth of milimeter in thickness.
@@musaran2 i agree. Elon got rid of it because no one uses the last digit. from my best knowledge, the next larger cell from the 18650 is 20700 then 21700....
In additional to the rest, the 4680 has a tabless design, which should prevent the cells from overheating due to internal friction.
@@robertlee6338 4680 is better than 18650 because batteries aren't lumber. They aren't just one material you chop up into any size. Larger battery = more actual battery chemicals with less casing material, therefore less wasted space and weight. The 4680 format also has internal structural differences (tabless) to reduce internal resistance and improve cooling.
Great video, but 5:50 is simply incorrect, LG manufacture whole packs for the Geely group in Korea and ship them for EV manufacture to the likes of Volvo in Sweden and LEVC in the UK, I know because I worked with the latter. Also some of your assumptions around cell types are incorrect - when it comes to a system level you can't "stuff more" pouch cells in the same space as they require additional cooling and management versus cylindrical, and as the big recall showed they're also relatively fragile.
You forget to mention that the Chevy bolt is a disaster, the battery get 🔥 by itself, is a big f failure for LG.most company's run away of LG battery
Checked the pinned comment.
Tes** got driver grilled, so scared!
@T C Don't pay attention to CCP 5 cent army.
Ultium, GM and LG joint venture, battery is more accurate. But, it is a LG technology, and Ultium is in learning curve similar to Tesla and Panasonic were few years ago. All lithium batteries have fire hazard and some brands get more publicity than the other.
@T C in electric car the battery as the more important part of the car, we all agree in that, so it's the car get burn the car is a disaster,I know that the battery are LG but the damage is already done
Additional big update to LG Energy is their construction of 1.1 Billion USD - joint venture with Hyundai - EV battery plant in Karawang, West Java, Indonesia, which just began mid-September (15/09/21). They planned for 10 GWh battery production annually starting 2024, all of which is exclusively reserved for, unsurprisingly, Hyundai (in nearby Cikarang, which is currently under trial production phase, and expected to commence production in 2022. The old Hyundai Plant in Bekasi will be converted into contract assembly plant for other brands) & KIA.
Sk inovation use "under licensed" lg tech batt...
Before that they have been sued ! Sk not a same level with lg !
Panasonic still produce the best quality ev battery in the world...that why premium tesla use panasonic batt....cheaper tesla use other brand lor !...
@@khaizatulzaika3510 really? All my top brand cordless power tools use Samsung and LG lithium batteries. None of them catches fire and cordless tools demand higher current, higher capacity and faster charging per cell than EVs. EVs use more batteries per unit so EV batteries require lower price per kw than cordless tools. I use Milwaukee and some Dewalt.
I define best technology as best performance at best price. Panasonic is good but lacks high capacity and best price to performance. I do use CATL for off grid solar battery farm, not optimal yet but best.
No mention of BYD batteries.
Note that Tesla isn't really using the 4680 cells yet, but they're expected to do so soon.
I am guessing that GM is looking to transfer as much liability as they can to LG. Surely this has wide ranging consequences.
GMs investigation couldn't find out how the fire exactly was caused. GMs finding is based on suggestions. Same as Hyundai. LG Chem never confirmed their claims
@T C Switched out when? LG is trickling out batteries for bolt battery replacements. The dispute is certainly slowing down replacements. Most bolts owners are still waiting for batteries and it could take more than a year to get a replacement.
At 7:43 you are showing a picture of fake and dangerous 18650 cells (targeted at unwary consumers).
Actual cells from reliable manufacturers have at most 3500 mAh capacity.
Any seller claiming more than that cannot be relied on. They mostly sell very low quality, defective or recycled cells that are claimed to be new. This poses massive safety risks.
LG Chemical's plan to stay solvent ... smh 🤣🤣🤣
LG Chemical's plan to stay sparkle, as ever !
I thought exactly the same, here we go with the LG exploding batteries 🤣🤣🤣
@@josecamacho3393 solvent ... chemical
I read, LG Chemical's plant to solvate.
7:45 8800mAH 18650s. WOW that's three times the capacity of current generation 18650s.
that's because these are fake.
Excellent historical coverage of LG evolution with nice coverage of the explosion in today’s auto battery competition!
A title pun that was pure gold
I don't intend on sending you an email anytime soon, but incase I did, which spelling of John do you use?
"spending billions on R&D" doesn't always seem to mean much.
some of these companies claim to spend so much on R&D but end up just copying the market leader or popular product.
R&D could mean "look at popular or market leader product and try to reverse engineer it" you know...
R and d is also a lottery u can spend alot and get nothing. I remember during the first few years of apple with the iphone, nokia was outspending them in r and d like 2 to 1 but apple was just crushing the market.
Whenever the Koreans say they are *spending billions on R&D* please be reminded that it includes truckloads of salt.
Anyone familiar with the way the Koreans run their companies know that the Koreans' notion of R&D is but a way to siphon off huge amount of $$$ into their own personal accounts.
@@clocktower1164 and yet they have some of the most high tech and competitive companies in the world
So if thats how it works there, imagine how worse it is elsewhere.
@@Mr30friends But of course, the crucial fact that you so conveniently forgot to tell us 。 。 。 all heavily subsidized by the South Korean government.
I'll always remember LG for the bootloops
LG's quality control has always tended to be lower than other companies. It sucks because they make extremely great products at really great prices. My household has had several LG 4K 27" monitors for several years now, and they're so great! I recommend them to everybody. Great image quality, and very cheap. One monitor developed a delamination issue (red corners) which some people on Twitter also had. But panel was replaced for free under warranty, and I haven't had any issues with the other 3 monitors.
I find LG makes good (to great) products, but tends to have bad (to terrible) quality control. Samsung are definitely far better in this regard. Also, interestingly enough they both tend to manufacture in South East Asia (Thailand, Malaysia etc) rather than in China.
@@shazmosushiLG may have slightly lower quality control than Samsung, but compared to any other Japanese brand LG has outperformed. I personally liked that LG has moved out of China. The fact you had problem with LG in the past but not any more is the proof. LG had a assembly factory in China but not any more.
some lenovo battries use lg chem cells
please do more about s.korean companies.
Do you know if the LG auto cells plant in Poland produces cylindrical other than pouch format?
Man I love your videos.. good guy!
LG Chem also has a plant in India. Is it the same subsidiary you mentioned in the video?
"Holland, USA" -> points to Ontario, Canada
This is a good title
I remember being in college around the time advances in lithium-ion batteries made EVs more viable because up until then there had been a reliance on ultracapacitors to store and dump enough energy on demand for appreciable acceleration.
I don’t have experience with LG Chem traction batteries, but with consumer I really have a great experience and find them really good and dependable.
agreed, great for vaping
7:00 "an electrolyte that facilitates the flow of electrons back and forth between the cathode and the anode"
AIUI in the electrolyte there is a flow of charged ions. When the battery discharges the positively charged cations move to the cathode and negatively charged anions move to the anode. The electrons flow outside the battery from the anode to the cathode (where the recombine with the positively charged ions).
14:48 definitely worth it as there isn't much batteries to go around for next several or 10 years. this the reason Panasonic sold all their Tesla stocks to gain cash for expansion, or in other words they will make more money producing batteries than hold that Tesla stock.
However, I have concerns with LG's/GM strategy on pouch cells. while the format is great for everything, it is the least safe and reliable for rough applications. Consider that DJI drones could abandon the pouch cell through a leaked manual and might use the 18650 in their upcoming, latest DJI Mavic Pro drone. They always have used pouch cells but is too prone for bulging/expanding due to the abuse drone batteries take. Cordless power tools and vacuums also use the cylindrical format for a long time. To improve the format's shortcomings, it has to be bigger which I think Tesla got right.
Pouches till need casing and pressure - that job is pushed onto the pack design.
How do tech-transfers work if one companies "jumps into bed" with various other companies? I.e. if there's Ford-LG tech-transfer, and another LG-Volkswagen tech-transfer, how would the carmakers protect their IP from travelling through LG to the other?
this doesn't really answer your main question, but Ford and VW have their own tech-transfer agreement as well.
The question should be the other way around. How can LG protect their IP from Ford, the carmaker. Is LG in the car making business ?
@8:05 you stated that Tesla is using 4680 batteries. not yet true, that was their plan announced on battery day. The original series of cars. Model S and X are thought to still use 18650 cylindrical cells, like the original Roadster. the second generation (Model 3 and Y) use 2170 cylindrical cells, except the Made in China Model 3 standard range plus, which is using LiFEPo cells... unclear on the format of those.
Tesla is still working on the 4680, and it expected to debut in Model Y coming from Germany or Texas (two new factories being built.) perhaps early next year? They are still ironing out the production process.
Can you make a video on Samsung and all their 1000 subsidiaries, great video.
Why have you excluded the GM Bolt battery fiasco that may cost LG Chem billons of dollars?
Re the numbering system for the batteries You say the first two numbers are the circumference in one then the diameter in the second. Is this so or are they both one or the other?
I see the problem now. You say the 18650 is 18mm wide but write that it is 18mm around.
i thought for a second the thumbnail says "low energy"
I am glad to hear that they are moving away from pouch cells. Pouch cells just seem fragile and hard to do good quality control checks on.
Thank you. Great video.
Nice video. Curious to know how the ups and downs of China-Korea relations affect the performance of LG Energy. China has been known to impose punitive economic pressure on Korea, like when SK deployed THAAD, but I'm not sure if it really affected this firm/sector?
It wasn't SK but Lotte. Lotte sold/leased the land to US military so US can deploy THAAD missile defense for US troops in Korea.
Lotte could not operate their department stores and other business in China, so they sold (ran) away from China. Lotte is a South Korean company owned by Japanese nationals, if I remember correctly.
Development still advances, and do not wait for any nation or society.
Thanks.
Great Video~ I'm from Taiwan also.
Prismatic does not mean "highly varied". Prismatic means "having the form of a prism".
"prism" is simply a name for a specific class of geometric bodies. Cuboids are a subtype of prism and these cells are cuboids.
so other shapes would imply variety?😂
-atic suffix does not imply form.
prismatic would imply cells that can be arranged so that two faces of the cell are not bound by being parallel to each other.
@@DirtyRobot "having the form of a prism" is straight out of wiktionary.
@@DirtyRobot Oxford advanced learner's gives us "in the shape of a prism"
@@w0ttheh3ll Do not rely on sources you can't trust. Do not bias by picking a result that backs up your thinking.
-atic means "in the nature of" or if you like "in the spirit of"
"automatic" by your thinking would have the form of auto when this is clearly not the case.
South Korea is basically Umbrella Corp. Not as evil though. Of Course
Interesting as always. However I feel left short on prismatic batteries. It seems more like a form factor rather than a unique battery chemistry.
None of the form factors are tied to any particular chemistry
@@csours The chemistry is very different from a cylindrical battery to a pouch battery.
Shame. you somehow forgot BYD.
WRT battery sizes and regarding the superfluous "0" appended to the 18650... In dem olden days the cell sizes referred to button or coin sized cells. The thickness was measured to two decimal places eg. 2032 = 20mm dia 3.2mm thick and 1616 is 16mm dia and 1.6mm thick. With the thicker / longer cells the fractional digit served no purpose and has been quietly dropped.
I would argue that hexagonal would be much space-compact than a circle.
But all we see are those cylindrical batteries and not that hexagonal tower form factor.
@@rashidisw Cylindrical has the pressure advantage; think high pressure gas cylinders. Look at the other formats, Prismatic and Pouch, they both suffer from swelling; you may have seen that in your older phones.
Hmmm ,,, There was no mention of the LG battery fires in the Chevy Bolt and the Hyundai Kona. This would seem to be big news for LG.
This analysis is detached from reality. Pouch cells are death traps. Q1 21 are irrelevant in the light of the Chevy Bolt recalls. LG may very well not survive this disaster
Correction: Tesla hasn't yet put 4680 cells into cars sold to consumers. Soon, they will, but it hasn't happened yet. They are using 18650 cells in Model S and X, and 2170 cells in Model Y and 3.
An open question is whether Tesla will use 4680 cells from outside suppliers. Several suppliers have announced plans to produce cells in the 4680 form-factor, but I don't think Tesla has signed any contracts for those cells yet. Tesla will itself manufacture 4680 cells, but their appetite for cells is enormous, so sourcing cells from outside the company is a possibility.
No other automaker uses cylindrical cells, as of yet.
Batteries are indeed a dynamic business. Tech is advancing. It's a growth industry, but also an industry in the throes of disruption. There will be winners. There will be losers.
Perhaps one of the most interesting questions to be answered is whether one of the three form-factors for automotive battery cells will come to dominate the market. My guess is that before 2030, pouch cells will be gone from the market, and prismatic won't be very far behind. Prismatic cells are hard to mass-produce, therefore command a price premium; and pouch cells suffer from hot spots and therefore cycle life and fire concerns. Neither lend themselves to structural cell-to-pack designs.
When a manufacturer claims prismatic cells can be used in cell-to-pack designs, they are leaving out the word 'structural.' A structural cell-to-pack design relies on the rigidity of a cylindrical cell can for structural strength. Just epoxy the cans and there's no need other structural components. Prismatic cells lay in trays; you can make the trays structural but not the cells. So a prismatic cell-to-pack design is going to weigh more than a cylindrical cell-to-pack design. Energy density at the pack level will be worse. When cost is factored in, I don't think prismatic cells will provide automakers with a competitive advantage.
The hot spot problem for pouch cells has been highlighted in the news, of late. GM has told all Bolt owners not to charge their cars unsupervised - even overnight slow-charging - or to park their cars within 50 feet of other cars. That is an absurd, extreme warning. Meanwhile GM and LG-Chem are battling over who is responsible for the problem and how to fix it. *Someone* is going to take a gigantic financial hit from this. Meantime, the Bolt production line is shut down, and that will affect LG-Chem's sales.
I think there is a danger that pouch and prismatic manufacturing investments may be abandoned before the end of the decade.
Tesla's patented dry-coating electrode technology is also a threat to LG-Chem and the other cell manufacturers. With this tech, driers are eliminated. Tesla can manufacture electrodes faster from smaller production lines and reduce per-KWh costs, reduce waste and reduce capital investment costs. I think the other cell manufacturers will either have to license the tech from Tesla or fail to be cost-competitive with their cells.
I think LG-Chem is overvalued in the market right now, given the risk of abandoned investments and the Bolt situation. But that's just an opinion.
@T C Solid state - to date, after decades of research - has never yet been commercialized. It's one of those ideas that *sounds* good, but is hard to actually *make* good.
When contemplating *any* candidate battery technology in the world's laboratories, know that *most* of them will *never* attain commercialization. They will stumble on one of two points: performance isn't good enough, or they can't be made cheaply enough to compete with current-tech commercial batteries. Solid state has long suffered from both problems: poor cycle life and insanely expensive production costs.
I don't predict that solid state will never achieve commercialization. Or that it will. It's a bird in the bush. Maybe it will come light on my hand, maybe it won't.
It's okay to be enthusiastic about the *possibility* that solid state will make it to market. But certainty is the fool's error.
@T C Late 2022 to early 2023 is near term in the auto industry. It's a massive business, and it takes time to bring a new product to the market at scale.
@T C Granted.
But it's still a mistake to express certainty about the outcome of research. Fact is, it hasn't proved to be commercially viable *yet.*
Solid state is chasing a moving target, y'know. Energy density and cycle life are improving for liquid electrolyte batteries. It's not a foregone conclusion that solid state will bust through and deliver something better. Maybe! I hope so! But let's not eat our chicken sandwiches before the eggs are laid.
@T C This *is* the auto industry, y'know. It's perfectly normal for an automaker to take 6 years from prototype to commercial availability. Those *other* automakers usually water down the finished product, too - it's nothing like the prototype. (Mercedes, I'm looking at you!) Tesla *improves* the commercial version beyond what the prototype shows; they've done that consistently.
In the auto industry, late 2022 or early 2023 *is* soon. These are complex products with vast numbers of parts and manufacturing processes, and those parts and processes *all* have to be ready, or nothing gets produced. So new products reaching market is a sluggish proposition. *All* automakers have to struggle with this, not just Tesla.
In what universe is 2026 'soon' and late 2022/early 2023 'not soon?'
Solid Power is working on prototypes. Hand-built in a lab. I'm *happy* that they are doing this work. I'm *hopeful* that they will deliver a product to market that beats competitive batteries. That would be *great!*
But prototypes are easy. Manufacturing is hard. We'll see how they will do.
Expressing certainty about that outcome isn't wise. It's a definite 'maybe.'
Chemicals. Solvent. Lol you're slaying me!
The world will change radically if we can make the next big jump in storage versus price and weight. It's a game changer, but we aren't quite there yet.
What about making a video about BYD?😊
Isn't Chaebol pronounced kai-bowl?
Jae-bul, chaebol is Japanese form of English.
If you are doing on rolling battery fire hazard, you should also do its opposite and do the BYD Blade battery (LFP) that have the unfortunate inability to catch on fire even after nail puncture, overcharged 260%, heated to 572F, rolled over by a semitruck. Compared to LG Chem's battery that can catch on fire if you look at it the wrong way.
BYD battery are super boring. They cannot do anything except for energy storage.
The Korean battery, on the other hand, are super fun !
Other than the boring job of storing up energy, the Korean battery also produce all kinds of sparkles !
LFPs have poor performance like batteries 3 decades ago. BEV with LFP are not fun
They dropped the 0 in the 4680 because Elon thought it didn't indicate anything.
Maybe not to him, since they only use cylinders. Where as company like LG, Panasonic or CATL absolutely has use for it since they might have a 4680 prismatic cell or a 4680 pouch cell. Specially pouch sell, say where it would be _this tall_ and _this wide_ pouch. So to them 0 is "this is from cylinder model series" instead of say a "46802" pouch cell (don't actually really know what their naming convention on pouch cells, but as example)
Pouch 🔥🔥
Theres some background static in the audio which sounds like a mosquito flying around LOL.
It would be great if it is edited out.
Pouch seems to have too many inherent advantages over cylindrical to lose out.
Too many connections to go wrong & wasted space. Each pouch cell can be very large & the cell interconnects can be continuously flawlessly printed into cell arrays of any voltage during manufacture.
Absent is that all types are good & bad. EVs will have a mix - cheap capacity regular & fast charge/discharge e.g. for regen/passing vs charge/cruising.
Hello Alfred! Long time no see no hear. Surely U no worry . . .
Are the LG batteries the one catching fire in GM EVs?
Uploading this without mentioning the massive trouble LG is currently in with the current GM recall is absurd, no matter when you scripted the video.
Massive is stretching it. A lot.
Ah yes, the timeless 8800mAh 18650 meme
Nice vid, thanks! The only way LG will stay solvent and competitive is if they quickly transition over to LFP battery chemistry as their NMC batteries are catching on fire, all too often, and they're paying billions to replace them. NMC is garbage chemistry and needs to go away, asap. LFP is great for now, but we need to quickly move to solid-state prismatic cells for the future.
Hahaha... finally some South Korea content. Asianometry you do realize that Asia is more than just China, Taiwan and Singapore, right?
In general I have found content on South Korea to have done pretty poorly. Like this one. Perhaps if more people watched it ...
@@Asianometry don't mean to be so hard on you, but you have more content on Taiwan and SK is at least as important as Taiwan in the region, if you want to claim to be a channel about the region you should have more SK content. Just say'in.
@@edwardkim8972 and Japan. Japan is still the technology leader among Asian technology. If Asianometry is to be true Asian technology news, then more Japanese and Korean content should be included. So far Asianometry is a Chinese diaspora technology. Asianometry, you need Korean and Japanese native speakers to translate Korean and Japanese technology news for you. Most of them are not translated to English.
Asianometry is valuable for Chinese speaker perspective of technology world.
And, news from India, Pakistan, Australia, Iran, and Turkey are never mentioned. Are they in Asia?
@@thor8086 I would agree that Japan still leads East Asia in technology and Asianometry should do more Japan content too. Asianometry, despite its inclusive name, is too Sinocentric IMHO.
@@thor8086 functionally... Asianometry is East Asian centric, particularly the sintic origin countries. However, East Asia leads most of Asia's technological development, so a lack of coverage of south Asia, Southeast Asia and the Middle East shouldn't be criticized, but a lack of coverage of Japan and South Korea should be criticized... otherwise, it should just change its name to Sinticometry instead of Asianometry since "Asian'-ometry would clearly be false advertising.
Hi John, how the US was able to put sanctions on China's semiconductors industry? What levers did they use to achieve that?
they banned us companies with working with china and also blocked EUV Lithography machines from ASML to china which bars china from 7-3nm processes
@@sophisticatedthumb5364 are Amercian companies irreplaceable? How applied materials, lka and lam research fit into the semiconductor industry?
@@odaialzrigat american companies are on the very top of the supply chain mostly on operating systems, chip design, and every major company that wants semiconductors place their orders with them and they in turn give orders to fabs like tsmc smic or global foundries, american firms also hold most of the advanced IP
@@odaialzrigat in recent years china's IC industry specifically Huawei's HiSillicon has been a competitor with american firms such as Qualcomm which is part of the reason other than 5g why huawei got sanctioned so hard. In my opinion this would only hurt china in the short term and america is really helping china become self reliant and form its own complete semicondutor supply chain
@@sophisticatedthumb5364 but that self reliance came with price
if there any disruption in china , even slightest china will ended up like india chip plant.
Tesla chose 18650 because what was made plentifully, easily and the number one factor cheaply at the time. Panasonic was the leader at the time with these cylindrical cells, as used in laptops.
Next do panasonic
Is it not these batteries that are in the cars that catch fire?? Chevy Bolt, Hyundai???
No.. it's gas which catch fire easily.
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥To GM $$$$$
Tesla is not yet using 4680 - they are still to come. Video is a bit misleading on that. Also Chevy recently recalled a large number of Volts which will cost a couple of billions USD. Chevy points it's due to LG Chems batteries causing fire
We're finally making money!! We're on fire!!! Oh, wait.
LG Chem battery is very good at starting camp fire.
Length can be 1000 mm.
Why only 65 mm?
1000 mm long battery less expenciev to mfg.
18650 is what the market has settled on. They are small enough to fit inside handheld appliances, have enough capacity for said appliances and are cheap enough to manufacture.
So, the market has raised demand for the 18650 and as such, scale of production has made them even cheaper to manufacture.
When something so small, powerful and inexpensive floods the market the market will find more ways to use them. For instance, they are almost mutually exclusively used in E-bike and E-scooter battery packs.
With one-size-fits-all the assembly, service and reliability all profits from it.
Imagine if everything in this world was unique... Imagine if a Toyota had the brake pedal where the accelerator pedal is...
If EV battery is 1000mm tall, where will you put people? Thus Tesla went to 6840 for shorter and stronger battery pack.
*Starts at **1:20*
Thank you
Could you make one about Chimei? Chimei could be the Taiwan equivalent of Samsung or LG. On plastics like ABS they are well known, but for some reason their electronics and appliances are not.
He can properly pronounce Hyundai but not DRAM 😂🤣🥲
Solvent! Ha!
No mention of the bolt recall and $1.8B bill from GM?
Bolt catches fire Hugh problem for LG. LFP is the future for mainstream BEVs. If LG survives. They are loosing customers due to Bolt, Hundi and Kia.
Seriously, the LG made EV battery fires 🔥 saga is almost 2 years long now… They have lost confidence of some EV automakers switching to other suppliers. How in the world could you leave this out of your video…
It's for a separate video.
Fiery company
👍
8:06 they dropped the zero becoz no one in the Tesla team could find out why a zero is appended in battery names (e.g. 18650)
Unfortunately your interesting, informative videos is already out of date, there is a significant move towards using LFP Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in EVs now, even Tesla have stated this which to my mind makes companies like BYD with their unique LFP Blade batteries far more relevant for the future, LG have a lot of catching up to do.
Its a question of price vs range. Tesla is moving to li iron phosphate batteries in china and for thier cheaper range cars. For higher price level they will still use other types bc it has higher chatge that can be stored ie greater range.
Yes range was an issues but it appears BYD are talking about significant range increases too around 600kms which is going to be more than enough for most, akso BYD are using 800v fast charge technology of around 25min to 80% which is ahead of Tesla so that’s not an issue!
Unfortunately I think you are a little blinded by bias but you may prove me wrong, however if a seriously good quality EV car arrives on your doorstep at a significant price advantage with all the latest 800v technology and a lifetime 1,000,000 km warranty on the battery do you really think the market is going to walk away from it, yes Tesla will be a major player in the high end market but it would be wrong to discount those like BYD to begin taking the affordable share of the EV market that Tesla does not address
You may not be aware but Toyota’s and Subarus initial range of EVs are all based fully on BYDs EV battery, chassis and software, also Mercedes have signed a deal with BYD too as well as a number of others so can I encourage you to take a wider look at the changes ahead
VW is going to use LFPs only in their entry lvl cars such as id.2/1. NMCs will remain in middle and high end models.
luxury brands will be nmcs only at least outside of china
LG sucks, they going down because of their stupid battery packs failing in the bolts. Go Tesla!!!
Shame. you somehow forgot BYD.