Push Pull Drum Technique - James Payne
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- Опубліковано 19 січ 2018
- The Push Pull is a great hand technique that can be used for many different reasons. We can use it as a warm-up exercise since it involves both wrist and finger motions, we can use it for very fast blast beats and rolls without getting tired with a lot of power but also to gain control of the sticks, for double strokes, rudiments and grooves. Let's break it down together and understand how to take advantage of this great technique!
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this is really hard to do with my non dominant hand but im gonna keep practicing
You've got this
hi
Just keep doing it slowly and methodically. there’s no majic bullet. It will come!
James you are one of the best drum teachers on YT since you in detail speak of the mechanics behind motions and movements. Very pedagogical and thought through. Thank you :-)
I'm very happy to hear that! Thank you!
Pedagogical? Looking it up now 🤯
I didn't actually realize this was a legitimate technique. I've been working on my blast beats and speed in general lately and had an idea to try basically exactly this because in my mind it made sense with understanding how the gravity blast works and figured that if I could turn that basic concept into an actual hand technique it would probably save me a lot of energy and turns out this is exactly what I had in mind. I just didn't realize it was a thing already. I finally tried it out for the first time tonight and it'll definitely take some time to get used to the motion and overall feel but this video will definitely be a big help.
It is a great technique and I'll be glad if my video will help buddy!
This is the exact technique I use to play all my diddles (double strokes), and it takes time to get used to but it is definitely an essential technique for basically all the rudiments.
I accidentally started doing this sometimes and yeah I had the same reasoning. I think any drummer who wants speed should learn this
I saw Alex Grind use this technique in, "Light Speed" I couldn't comprehend honestly. Thank you for the detailed explanation!
this is one of the best push pull lessons out there, great work!
thank you so much buddy been working on my blast beats
Super great. Thanks for taking the time to break it down slowly and explain in detail.
Excellent demonstration. Thank you.
Its very useful for intermediate level. Thanks for a bright lesson and speech.
I accidentally started doing this when I finally learned matched grip (had a horrible grip for two years) finally glad to know what its called. The only thing is that my right hand got used to this almost immediately but my left is still struggling. Good video 👍🏽
Hey Nathan, I suggest you to play the Push Pull right and left hands unisone from slow to fast and look at what happens to your hands, what changes and work on the details on why the left hand stop working at one point and the right one doesn't.
James Payne Good idea, thanks!
Nathan Gonzalez it’s not an idea, it’s one of my practicing methods :)
yeah that's the spirit
Thanks for this. You are a very good teacher!
Thanks for the lesson. Haven't found anyone explaining where I should hold the stick which made a huge difference.
Excellent explanation, it has improved me a lot
Great teacher and awesome skills
Thank you very much James 👍🥁
James, thank you! You are amazing!
This is a really great video. Seriously helped me. Thank you
Great lesson keep it up !!!
Very good explanation !
The best i've seen about Push Pull Drum Technique
what a great explanation thank you
Thanks for those exercices
Your control is exceptional
That's nice man!
Good inspiration 🥁👍
Fantastic lesson. I will definitely be looking into all the others.
Awesome, I hope they'll help!
You save my life! Thanks
Thanks James! Really nice video.
You're welcome Florian, glad you liked it!
I just suscribed to your channel, the basic techniques are very well explained. Thanks
Great video, thanks for sharing! I'll rewatch this until I get the motion down.
Awesome, I hope it'll help!
Good job
The steelpan drum does not have much rebound, but fast rolls are crucial for sustaining the tuned percussion notes. Thank you for this video James 🔥🙌🏾✨😎
You're very welcome man!
best tutorial ever !
Very good lesson. I saw you upload some. I will definitely check it all. Regards
Glad you liked this one!
James Payne i definitely need to master this technique. Cheers from Brazil!!
Hi James, I think you're doin an excellent job with your lessons! :D Could you suggest a particoular "didactic" order to follow? :)
Im 48 and play just about every instrument but drums. Great video
This video is the best technique video ever
Well explained..!
Thank you, glad you liked it!
Excellent lesson🎸🎭🥁🕊🏴☠️😎
Thanx, glad you liked it!
thank you for this video
You''re very weclome!
So grateful for this video.. must have seen it 20 times already.. 50 years of matched grip and this technique was natural to me.. However I was putting the work load on my fingers by leaning into French grip too much.. This is very exciting to learn and to practice as long as I am patient.. 'Time' will tell .. Thank you JP
Awesome to heer that Bill! Exactly, be patient, keep the concentration on the details and you will overcome every problem!
congratulations bro
Like Jon. Great great teacher (and drummer).
Thank you very much!
Dude James you and Matt McGuire should do a massive Collab bro!! That would be sooooo Gnarly 🤙🏼 🥁
Cool! Greetings from germany Christoph 👍👍👍👍👍
or moller technique, I started practicing push-pull 4 months ago, playing 7 years behind the drums. 4 months later - the right hand is 280 bpm, the left hand is 200 bpm. Cons - hit weak when fast bpm. Plus - you're relaxed. It is advisable to use a trigger
You can still get volume and power out of both strokes at higher BPM. Take a look at Wanja Groger and Kevin Paradis:
ua-cam.com/video/2RlqvRcbl_4/v-deo.html - Wanja explaining push-pull
ua-cam.com/video/rRp4lcoqOq4/v-deo.html - Wanja from 200 to 310 BPM
ua-cam.com/video/Q8o9kNDoiBc/v-deo.html - Kevin at 310 BPM
Thank youfor your explanation. Very thorough and helpful.
No problem, glad you liked it!
Interesting video man! Good work from Italy🇮🇹
Grazie Mattia! Sono originariamente italiano anche io :)
@@JamesPayneDrums Allora ancora più bravo. Sono il papà di Mattia in realtà. Mio figlio è un batterista che studia da 6 anni alla Rockschool accademy e ora ha appena finito il grade 6! Passa per il nostro canale se vuoi ed iscriviti😁 noi ci siamo iscritti al tuo! Grazie e a presto
Ps: stiamo studiando il push and pull col tuo video!😁
Mattia è un grande!! E anche fortunato ad avere un appoggio come il tuo! Spero che i miei video siano di aiuto e grazie a voi!! :) :)
@@JamesPayneDrums A presto
I'm going to start on this right now. I really want to be faster!
thanks, not sure why this is hard for me, but I think I'm starting to get it.
Awesome lesson! Can you use this technique for blast beats up to 260/280 bpm?
wow I like your technique the push pull
Thanx man, glad you like it!
I don't think just anyone can learn this. This is a certain knack in the arm & wrist. He wiggles his wrists a certain way to get the speed.
I feel disabled. I dont know why this is so hard for me.
This is an advanced technique and will take many hours of practicing it slowly, repeatedly in order to see results.
You're not alone bro haha. I've been drumming for 17 years and wanted to learn a more efficient way to play blast beats while using less energy. Its been an humbling experience trying to apply this technique. But I love the journey of drumming man, the work is worth it.
@Ricci Hardow Thank you🌷
@Ricci Hardow well said.
dude, you can’t feel more disabled than me.. I’m contemplating whether I should shove the stick down my throat or stab it thru my chest..f!!
Has anyone bought this course from James' website? Is it just the same material or does he break down more detail on development exercises?
The Best Push in Pull is Ramon Montagner Brazilian Drummer
Or Yoni Madar!
Ramon's technique is a little different than what's shown here. There's a good instructional video about it by him and Kalani on World Drum Club channel.
@@anonagain Ramon's technique looks more effortless.
Wrong, the Best is jojo mayer
Is this really faster than regular strokes? And what if you don't want the first hit accented?
wow, very good explanation and clear demonstration of all phases of the hand movements! I know what to do for the coming two years or so :-(. Thank you! ;-)
sto provando a sviluppare questa tecnica usando i metodi di gordy knudtson, ma trovo molto difficile sviluppare quella velocità che dal video sembrerebbe molto intuitiva e naturale da tirare fuori. osservandoti sembra che la velocità venga fuori da un movimento molto naturale che sblocca un meccanismo delle articolazioni. ma il fatto è che io faccio fatica. eppure la studio da mesi. ti preciso che le mie dita durante l'open close sono sempre in costante contatto con la bacchetta cosi come dice
This is so great. Been practicing this for a couple days now and it's feeling impossible.
I've 'drummed in my head' for a very long time, but I'm realizing I've always 'crushed' (I think) for doubles/triples, if that makes sense. Having a hard time fixing that mental block.
I can do it slowly but the bounce is hard to be consistent. How long is a reasonable amount of time to learn this?
Yo I’ve been trying this for years. Though I was able to get the push pull doubles down in a month or so, the push pull singles are insane. I don’t practice too often though, I assume with a good few months of grinding you can get it pretty consistent.
I've been working on this technique for about a year and a half now for at least an hour a day and I can maintain a single stroke roll at 250 bpm for a good 30 seconds now. My right hand can top out around 280 bpm which allows me to play some really fast skank beats. Just keep a structured practice regimen and the speed and consistency will come bro. This is also a great technique for getting powerful and even double strokes for nasty fills but that for me is tougher than the single strokes.
Really Great lesson James, I've just got one question.. Are you holding the stick in a American grip or in a French grip? I'm holding my sticks with my palm facing the floor but I cannot go faster than 80 BPM using the Push Pull technique.
And now bro?
Palms facing the floor is German grip and American grip is in between French and German which is what most people use
Where can I find aluminum sticks for practice?
damn that is some powerful stuff... like nuclear power yo
Hi James, some people I've seen say that you need to have the wrist come above the arm. Do you think this is important or is it ok to have it straight and in line with the arm while you're doing your finger strokes? Also, where does the stick pivot after the first stroke? Is it on the first joint of the index finger or the middle joint at the knuckle?
Hi James, if you keep your wrist straight it means that you only work with your fingers. I would suggest to involve the wrist at slower speeds as it makes the Push-Pull more comfortable and as you speed up, you go to an finger-only approach.
To spot the pivot just emulate the motion without the stick and see where your thumb and index finger remain in contact mostly and then recreate that with the stick. Everyone has different finger length, so I might mislead you if I tell you where mine exactly happens :)
Keren
Serious question...how important is your pinky when pulling the stick back down? The way my hands are angled on the down stroke, it seems only my middle and ring fingers are able to grab the stick on the pull. I have to force myself to angle my hands so that my pinky is able to reach the stick. Nothing changes in the strokes, but I'm wondering if the pinky is crucial when going fast.
The pinky will be more involved when you speed up the motion as the motion will be more 'inside the hand' at that point the pinky will be very important!
What sticks is he using?
just curious , how many black t-shirts do you have james ?
Many
Yeah Good idea...
Thanks for the video. I have this down on the pad to an extent, but when I moved to the drum set, I keep hitting my thighs with the butts of my sticks, which throws off the momentum of the stick. The only way I can seem to avoid doing this is by raising my snare to an asinine height, which destroys the rest of my playing. How do you avoid that when you play push/pull on actual drums?
This might be a bit late but the way I do it is that I don't do the full motion. I kind of catch the stick with my ring or pinky finger to stop it from hitting me. Hope this helped
@@JJustJ-yb9wh Appreciate the reply. I got it worked out.
@@wxmachinegun what did u do to rectify the problem?
@@yasin7118 I gradually made the motion of the wrist less exaggerated. Think of dribbling a ping pong ball
Is this a good technique to play jazz in the ride cymbal?
Yes, it is!
I've been practicing this for a couple of months now, got up to 145bpm each hand singles. Can't seem to push past this speed? Do I keep going and it'll come or, I'm I missing something?
Thanks for the content 👍
You might be using your forearm more than wrist motion. Try to pay attention to that and see if it gets better!
Are your thumbs still or do they roll the stick when you get up to higher speeds? They look still which surprises me. (at 6:17)
They move with the sticks, I think they look still because the motions become smaller and smaller the more we speed it up, but they still follow the sticks :)
Super, thanks!
Question for anyone who'll take pity on a fellow drum fumbler: When using push pull in a single-handed 16th note hi hat groove, seems I accent the downbeats with the pull motion, rather than the push motion; years of accenting the downbeats with my right hand during the singles has made this motion more "pull, push" than "push, pull"...Am i doing this wrong? Should I make sure I do push, pull or can I vary it?
I wouldn't say it's wrong, if it's what you want or works for you, then it's ok! If, instead, you want to be comfortable to do it in both ways, so push-pull and pull-push, you can just break down the motions and get used to executing it in both ways. It's just a matter of how you're used to coordinate it and apply it more than a technical problem.
Jack Jeffries
The Reason Why Ramon Montagner is the Master Of this Technique is because he can Put the Accents anywhere
James does a Great Demo as well
This is really one of the better but still concise videos on push pull. Thanks a bunch!
depends to drum pad also.. need the bounce.. can u do it on the floor?
Yes, I can do it on the floor and on the toms or surfaces that don't have a lot of rebound
The steelpan drum does not have much rebound, but fast rolls are crucial for sustaining the tuned percussion notes. Thank you for this video James 🔥🙌🏾✨😎
Also...is your speed directly tied to the speed of your wrist-based (and wrist ONLY) strokes?
Not really, since there's both a wrist and finger motion, the good thing of the Push pull is that allows you to do a less wide motion with the wrist and help it with the fingers, so the speed it is based on the wrist motion, but being a smaller motion compared to the german grip or wrist motion only, it allows you to play faster with less effort
@@JamesPayneDrums Thanks, brother, I appreciate your replies. I've been making a lot of progress after following your instruction. Thanks again!
@@JamesPayneDrums Hm...so I thought about what you said and have been practicing since, and it seems my push-pull speed has caught up with my wrist-only speed and I feel like I need to increase my wrist-only speed in order to have a faster push-pull speed. How fast is your push-pull speed compared to your wrist-only speed?
I can get the wrist to bounce the stick back up straight, but after pushing it down with my fingers, it stays parallel to the floor. So hard!
Yessss 😭
Doing both is the thing bra
Does anyone get RSI from this sort of thing?
As long as you have rebound
this works very well. But when doing
triplets and have like '0' rebound this is useless. You need rebound here otherwise you can't do doubles.
Either rebound-doubles or play single-single.
Yes, of course... even tho having the first stroke (the push) with the arm or wrist can help having more rebound and you can still use it on surfaces that don't have a lot of rebound. But yeah, if you try to play triplets with a 2 motions based techique, that is not very smart ahah
for me it's my dominant hand the one that soemhow doesn't budge
that's very common. Is due to habits that that limb developed and now that you do something new it goes back to the old habits that it has. It's a bit tricky because you feel less discomfort compared to your left hand but it actually works worst than your left hand in doing certain motions. Your left hand has less confirmed habits and when you give a new input it picks it up faster but it'll be harder to control because it still is less educated. Do unison hands exercises, your left will teach to your right and your right will teach to your left. It still is the same brain that is figuring out the 2 limbs, so the 2 hands information will then become one good for both hands
I think this is what Freddie Gruber taught
Man slowly i can figure it out but speeding up tempo indont understand how you get your wrist to act in the same way as your arm in slower tempo.
the wrist comes in only when you start speeding up and it takes the role of the arm since the arm motion would start to become too slow for certain speeds. I don't know exactly what you are doing to help you more in detail, I should see it to tell better buddy
I keep hitting the rim. It makes me want to tear my hair out.
It’s also a lot of fingers
I don't think this is something that just anyone can do if they practice enough. Some arms and wrists can do it and some can't.
Can you show the advanced version of the technique where you use your thumb for the down-stroke and you can legitimately play around 400-500bpm on one hand with that technique (roughly 2x as fast as you're playing at 12:06)?
I can not :)
Leave this guy, com'on best in push pull technique is lars ulrich
Leave this guy, the real master and monster of push & pull technique is Gordy Knudtson
I cannot for the life of me not follow the stick back on the initial throw.
Curt Priestley right
Where my left handed drummers at?
I can do it easily at your speed but what about a faster faster speed ?? 😂
Otherwise this technique has no interest to me …..
see Ramon montagner videos if you don’t know what speed I am talking about 😂
its not working budd
UA-cam gracias por crear la "velocidad de reproducción" (x0.25)
Atte: Los Bateristas
Is imposible, is fake.
Too much talking....just get to the point...
Check out Ramon Montagner Channel..
Cheers
u r good but ur videos are way too long
I think you should do first tutorials on your NATIVE language. Or hold on for tutorials in english untill you master english first... it will make it clearer. Same as with the hand techbique. or could one that doesn't have the technique, teach the technic? The same with language, how could you teach anything if you do not speak the language?
How could someone who doesn't appreciate free information, appreciate anything in life? The point should be for you to get something useful from this video to hopefully improve something or discover something you didn't know before. If the video wasn't helpful to you, at least you didn't spent money on it, no? I hope this can put this and other things in your life in a different perspective, I think that that would really help and improve you. And hopefully there aren't mistakes in this reply and you get at least this point. Good luck with everything
@@JamesPayneDrums how could some one be a "teacher" if he doesn't recognize weaknesses? Why do you get upset by my words? Are they true perhaps? Everything in Life is FREE MATE! Whoever doesn't see it that way, that one is not LIVING! So NO money has NOTHING to do with anything! So because it is free I have to eat whatever I am given? Look around and tell me if that way has brought any decent results for mankind. Making a free video doesn't give you the RIGHT to speak poorly on a language it is NOT YOUR OWN NATIVE LANGUAGE and the teaching or ANY potential useful information is lost because the LANGUAGE IS NOT THERE! And my point is proven by the fact that you DON'T UNDERSTAND my comment and get "offended" like a little girl... grow up dude! And improve your English !
@@JamesPayneDrums and by the way, your argunent is logically as weak as your ENGLISH!! HAHAHA TRY AGAIN!
@@Cuisinenomade1 I do recognise my english is not perfect, obviously, but that’s because it is not my first language. But communicating in English, doing my best to do so while I try to improve it in every video, is a way to reach way more people than communicating in my native language.
My argument was to try and make you see what YOU could benefit from things instead of focusing your energy to tell what does not work. I am thankful that you underlined such an obvious thing of my video, something that probably everyone else noticed as it’s not so hard to hear, but I also hope that you still get something positive out of it and out of my replies, which are not of an offended person, but of someone who is trying to make you see that you are not taking advantage of the powerful tools that you have the priviledge to have for no cost or sacrifice in life. My message was beyond the money etc... good luck
Dude if you don't like it then leave, no one forces you to be here and other people are actually benefitting from this lesson. Yeah he's not perfect, but he's trying. His English is good enough to teach and give a good explanation and his technique makes up for the rest. Also if you have to insult a person's knowledge of a language to prove a point you've already lost