If you haven't signed up for Dennis MacDonald's course, you really should. Sign up here for Dennis MacDonald's course "Reading The Gospels With One Eye on Greek Poetry" - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/homeric-mimesis
@@jeremiah6540 Yes another Greek Legend & religious cult favorite: the Legend of Orpheus & Euridike has him going to Hades to bring his dead love back.
That's what sacrificing the First born means (... it's a kind of conditioned self, attached to the world, you give up)... then it the 'first death' occurs... you become one with the Father,... then of course you return, that's the 'resurrection' (some might say you've fallen out of Paradise)... The second death occurs when your physical body dies in this world. This is Nirvana. -- The fall from Paradise was no joke. Lucifer is the Morning Star. Note that Christ was also called that. -- Lucifer is not named in the bible iirc. The morning star is, but this refers to its course through the sky... An earthly king is compared to that star, for even though it is the brightest in the sky it doesn't climb as high as say Saturn or Jupiter, but falls back to earth rather quickly. Then this is actually saying the opposite of what Christ is meant to mean... too much attachment to the world, will never bring you enlightenment. -- Going on the path of christ, through the method, or through deep meditation, will make you see the light (this is literally what happens)... hence Christ as a lightbringer. - note that Saturn might be a stand-in for Yahweh, (yaldaboath, the creator) according to gnostics the bad guy...because it's the thing that creates the world again and kicks you out of paradise... -- and Jupiter a stand-in for the 'heavenly father' or El, the leader of gods, known through the divine spark for gnostics... -- note that a Flood would also erase everything (except the true son)... through history a flood was called, because it came too noisy for the God or there was too much sin... (too much noise or sin is basically the same thing... your mind gets overloaded... this literally points to the method on how to do it). Noah and Jesus were doing the same thing. In Noah's case it was water, for Christ it was fire. Some metaphors, imho, can only be understood by reaching the enlightenment state itself, and then it's still a mess. Some vedas or zen buddhist text are better understood. They don't seem to have so much 'politics' attached to it.
How can anyone imagine that an eternity of suffering is justice? Regardless of what evil someone did during their brief, finite time while they were on the Earth.
I'll Do you one better....if one existence is eternal and the other finite (ie only lasting one lifetime) then why would you call the brief existence life and the eternal one death...?? Have you ever considered that this is death and what comes next is life? Think about it because that's what the ancients thought.. This is the underworld, the land of the dead
No one wants it. Not even God wants it. But hell is a choice that he has to respect. Hell is not designed to make anyone suffer. It is designed to be isolated away from God. If you don't like serving others, you don't want to be with God.
@@fynflorentine2512 where do you get this idea from? What’s the point of resurrection & turning the wicked to ashes? The Bible mentions death countless times & the alternate thru Jesus is “eternal” life
@@fynflorentine2512 i see you skipped my comment lol what you fail to realize is that to the ancients this world we live in is hell, not that judeo Christian nonsense but the Norse version.. The lowest part of the tree of life.. we've fallen from the spiritual world and descended into matter... Where's your soul? It's entombed in flesh the element of earth.. Why do you think they say that Satan is the lord of this world?? You people need to wake up, this isn't life that comes next.. This is death, the underworld we must escape just as they did the ancient myths .. this isn't my opinion btw it's the first thing you're taught in any mystery school.. that's why you'll see so much death symbolism in the initiation rituals of secret societies like the masons and skull and bones... All secret societies are just mystery schools in disguise
Seek out the Origin of All human religions & God worship & you will find 3 Planets.............Saturn,Venus & Mars.......The Father,Mother & Son, The Original Trinity..Set yourself free!
@RobKoch1962 The real Gods of Humanity,the Original Gods were the Planets Saturn,Venus & Mars.....The Father Mother Son Trinity.If you feared any God it was Venus as she was the destroyer,flood bringer to humanity.
It can leave you, if you change your thinking to this: Why should anyone care about Christianity anyway? *It just doesn't matter by its own poorly thought out design.* Due to being a poorly thought out, conflicting and contradictory religion, _it just doesn't matter."_ With a tri-omni, presuppositional, so-called "god" that has a predecided plan, _nothing one does matters._ In order for the god to exist, nothing it supposedly sees in the future _can be wrong._ Or now we have busted the supposed All Knowing "god," *Question:* 1). Does this supposedly omnicient, omnipotent, omnipresent, presuppositional, so-called "god" that we're to believe "knows all things"… …this version of "god" that you want everyone to believe in… *_…does it know…_* …who will go to Christianity's supposed *"hell"…* *_👉 BEFORE* it "creates" each person? 2). In light of question #1, it becomes readily apparent that the ONLY way the Christian god model can work with a tri-omni god with a pre-determined "plan," is _pre-determination._ The Calvinists actually thought it through, got the logic right, and came to that simple logic truth - Christianity does NOT get to have it both ways! If your god knows all, and "only a relative few make it" *as the bible describes* - then the Christian god is meaningless. Nothing anyone says or doesn't say, does or doesnt do, wasn't already known and planned for by the supposed god 10 quadrillion year's ago and to 'infinity in the past' if such exists. If the god saw infinity 10²³ years ago (ha ha) that it would create *you* for "heaven" then it _must manipulate your life to lead you to exactly that._ Exactly what it saw ahead of time MUST happen - or it's a fraud god liar, that doesn't know a truthful future. Same thing for this supposed "hell." If the god sees anyone being tossed into hell, BEFORE creating them, then it created them for that purpose - eternal torture. The god MUST do whatever it takes to insure that what it _THOUGHT_ was truth in the future - actually _is_ truth… It MUST insure your life events and path leads you to "hell" or it's a total fraud god that doesn't know a truthful future. j Starting to see what a contradictory, deceptive joke the religion is? The god sees the human majority going to "hell" BEFORE even creating them. *And the contradictory, conflicting bible even admits it!* This means if the "Future Vision" that the the god supposedly saw 10 quadrillion years ago… …does not turn out to be 100% perfectly accurate with it's supposed knowledge of the future… _…then this is not the supposed god you've been gaslit and threatened into believing in. It's something much different, or most likely doesn't exist, per the assertions you were indoctrinated, threatend and frightened into believing in, if it exists at all.
@@ring-tone278 I read the bible many times, dude. Tell me something I don't know. Better yet, ask yourself who told you to believe what you believe, and why did you believe him/ her. There is a mind inside of you, which no one is entitled to tell you how to use. Use it freely, ask them as many questions as you please and then come back here and tell me I'm going to hell because your bible says so. Greetings.
Never be unafraid of becoming evil. If hell exists, the worst thing about it isn't any kind of physical torture. It's that it alters you into an evil person where you inflict torture as well as receive it. We know that kind of stuff exists on earth with all the drug addiction issues. The question is, does it continue beyond the grave?
I was never into religion until 3 years ago. America’s division and media propaganda had me depressed. So I jumped into Christianity at full bore. There were some beliefs that I could not embrace. Like the world is only 6 thousand years old told by my brother in law. I then began to look at scholars. Especially Mike Heiser. What struck me like a bolt of lightning that the bible is not a textbook. Then my brother in law asked me have you started service for the church yet. I replied no. He then said I’ll pray for you that the enemy creeps up and its a death trap for you. Then I decided to dig even further and found Dr Justin Sledge, Bart Ehrman, and many others on UA-cam. Bought many books and I’m starting to be free at last! Thank you ladies and gentlemen for keeping this informed Atheist happy!
My Catholic parents from Ireland were skeptical of hell. If hell were mentioned by a teacher or priest, my mother would say, "How do they know. Were they there? My father always in a witty way told us not to listen to priests when they talked about politics or religion. One teacher nun made it clear that hell may exist but no one is in it. The nun was getting her PhD at Columbia U in mEdival Women mystics. An uncle, also from Ireland, took it on himself ton correct what we might be being taught at Catholic school, pointed out that GHod loves everone, Catholic or not, and that God's love is eternal, never ceasing, and that God in hismlove could not possibly torture anone forever. The psrents and uncles were all from the same place in Ireland. It must have retasined the Irius Jesuit's teaching of "modernism" tat was condemned by the pope.
Consider yourself fortunate my friend and be sure to tell your parents, your aunts and uncles and that nun thank you for keeping you out of that awful mental trap that has caused so much mental illness.
A thought experiment also got me out of the hell doctrine. Imagine if God told you that you are now in charge of Hell to do what you wish with all those souls that have been tormented for the past 20,000 or more years. That you have His authority and that He trusts you because you have been faithful in so much. Well I don't know about you, but I would be getting ready to deal out some mercy! Lighten things up and start seeing about letting them go. How can I be more merciful than God?
You mentioned 20,000 years. Let's extend this thought experiment. What about lesser evolved ape-men from 30,000 years ago? Or 1,000,000 years ago? At what point back in time was the ape creature too animal & insufficiently human to be held accountable? I'm assuming you wouldn't think a naughty ape at a zoo should suffer eternal flames. So at some point as you roll forward in time you've got to make a call that the cave man is finally ready to be held accountable for violations of rules.
😂 that's a terrible thought experiment that says Evil Incarnate thinks just like you. Haha also the doctrine of eternal torment is wrong. This is only reserved for the demonic. Revelation and Jesus' own words clearly states this. Hell for most people will be "the outer darkness"
If calling yourself God and doing things differently because you think you have a better system than God counts as a thought experiment then yes this was a thought experiment.
@@PaulH581 so you are pro hell then ? Like you want there to be a hell where good and bad people go that don’t believe that a loving god world torture them for all of eternity?
I think heaven and hell is a state of mind that we cultivate ourselves. If we live in true goodness, on our path fulfilling our full potential to enhance the human experience then we create heaven, we feel really good therefore we are creating the place where we go when we pass over ourselves. Same with hell, if we create suffering and pain to others we are tormented by our conscious and wallowing in our our self pity and misery. We create our own destiny, judgement and exploration into various states of existence. Our souls are eternal, if we find ourselves in a place that seems like hell it is just a purging process that purifies the soul. We are multidimensional space travellers capable of altering and manifesting reality with consciousness.
Don't get me wrong, I like what you're saying. But is there any evidence to support a belief in what you're saying? Wishing something were true doesn't make it a reality. That's what we've been making fun of the Christians for.
@@danmurray1143 my beliefs are from personal experience not what others say. I don't commit to believing anything lightly. I was brought up in a extremely controlling religion (JW cult) and it as taking me years of studying, research and death defying experiences to find my own truth. I am 56 years old, I left my family because of their mind control religion when I was 16. I don't need to convince anyone of what I know, we are all on our own journey. You simply can't comprehend what some people have been through so I won't even try to explain how I know what I know. You have to find your own truth. I spend a lot of time in the spiritual, etheric and astral realms, fighting demons and promoting holy spirit. I serve the Most High to create peace and harmony on this planet. That is my calling, duty and mission.
@@eprd313 yeah, there's lots of sane people in mental wards. If you want to go with the crowd and be a sheep being led to the slaughter that's up to you. If you'd rather be lazy and believe what other people say instead of finding things out for yourself that's also up to you. I think for myself, at one time everyone believed that the sun rotated around the planet. We will never expand and evolve if we are close minded and stuck in old fashioned thought processes. Try to think outside the box and be a pioneer in forward thinking or be stuck in the mud, that's up to you. Many genius people were put into asylums because they resisted against the matrix. You're words do not insult me or my intelligence.
I love the connecting point of the origins of torture porn with the early church's art. And here I thought that wasn't a thing until some filmmaker made the movie "Saw". 😂
Hello Greetings from Norway! I'm very thankful for this youtube channel! Thank's a thousand times! Now i ordered like 6 books, recommended from various MV podcast-programs. "Christmas gift for my self..." Keep spreading the knowledge!
I have never been able to balance an all loving, all powerful, all forgiving God with damnation for all eternity for the mostly small inconsequential sins we commmit in the blink of an eye in eternal terms. If we don't measure up why not just make it that we no longer exist, why torture us with no chance of redemption from hell? I have never understood how these two can co-exist with each other.
@@richardwitherow5289 yes i know, agree with one of the other comments about being raised a catholic, it is so hard to completely shake off. If it were true, we are in derp trouble.
@@garyhendrie4001 We're not going to be in any deep trouble, Gary. It simply isn't true and there isn't a shred of evidence to support the claims of those who insist it is.
What got me out of hell ... well the doctrine of hell was a dream with a voice telling me something and the next day a synchronicity involving what that voice was telling me corresponding exactly at the same with an investigation on the topic of hell made me realize that what we were taught about hell is not true. Blew me away!
@@pandawandasi had been in the process of shedding so much doctrinal indoctrination that was a result of an emotional-mental heaviness that had come to a head where it was so heavy for like a year maybe. So i had finally started to lighten up and was exploring alternate christian doctrines. Really looking hard at universalism. Well one night i had a dream about a number. A voice kept telling me over and over and over that it was a good number, a mighty fine number. When i woke up, i was thinking lottery maybe or something like that. It was Saturday but i was taking the day to do some work on my computer while listening to youtube videos on liberal christian doctrines. I had wrote that number on a small sticky note and pasted it to the lower right side of my computer monitor. One of the theological videos i was listening to was about hell. That if it did exist it was temporary so short that it was literally a split second... so.. when the video ended, i saw the ticker for the video elapsed time. It was right beside my sticky note and it was the same number.
You had a dream and then something that you perceived as corresponding to your dream happened the next day? That's what made you change your belief system?
@@MultipleGrievance yes! Edit: and "belief system" what is that anyway. For me it was an indoctrinational system or a program embedded in my psyche. It was a problem. A big problem. My guess is that someone outside this realm saw that i needed that program removed. So i was helped. Edit #2: and since then my life has been more abundant
@@clubdesalud1488 It sounds to me like you're just describing Learning. One man's indoctrination is another's Education. What usually Initiates why a person interprets Learning a particular thing as indoctrination is a choice they make. They choose to view the information as bad in some way. Now all of a sudden it's not learning, It's indoctrination.
Anyone who glibly says "Hitler should go to Hell" as a example of it's validity is instantly more evil than Hitler. To consider deeply the concept of eternity, outside of space and time, locked in an endless loop..universes will come and go but this human is tortured forever. Yes, to want anyone or anything to suffer that for any reason is pure, distilled evil
Of all the things that happened between my mom, the only two things I can't forgive are 1. Shipping me off to Lakeside Christian School for hellfire and brimstone sermons. 2. Having me circumcised.
The first time I saw Bosch’s Garden of Earthly Delights I was told that he had accidentally eaten ergot. This was in circa 1970. Last year I researched his work. From what I learned he was far from trippy, he was trying to scare the freak out of people. My father had an old copy of Dante’s Inferno with the wonderful Dore’ artwork. As a little girl in the 1950s I found the drawings fascinating and wanted to learn how Dore’ could do that! One branch of my family fully believes in Hell. I grew up without the fear. However, now being a Septuagenarian I a don’t find the belief silly anymore. It harms folks. Then again, now with people researching Soul Trap/Demuiuge/Matrix. All of the terrifying NDE stories! Well, mandatory reincarnation based on some bad thing you did after being inspected by some astral counsel…. Bosch’s Hell sounds better! My most favorite modern depiction of Hell is in the film Little Nicky. Thanks for this video!
I am not deep into gnosticism but demiurge mythology gives me some kind of hope, some strength to rebel against all the wrong in the world. I even had a dream recently , inspired by gnosticism, where I was making some kind of an insurgency against him. I remember walking over some sketchy planks above a wide well that leads to Hades. The journey led me through various landscapes, buildings, including a disgusting toilet. I was alone in the struggle, for others worshipped Demiurge, so I had to sneak around. Finally I was saved, either Demiurge or the supreme God was impressed by my little rebellion and intervened to free me from the schackles of this world.
So the Hell myth was created to keep us rightous. Well, despite being atheist, all that's happened is it's ruined my life and stripped away any desire to do any good because I think I'm going to Hell. What a disastrous evil that the story has given the world.
alot of this is related to nde's but can also tie into our consciousness also related to these myths and is relative and not a fixed thing how the 'after' death experience shows to the experiencer
In the Eastern Church there was a strong tradition of universal salvationsummarized in "No one is saced until all are saved." The "until" referred to God's time, the eternal now. Bishop Burnfield wrote a book thoroughly explicating Universal Salvation. He uses the Bible as well as other arguments for Universal Salvation. The book is called "Patristic Universalism." The trial s by bishops of St. Maximus the Confessor, who preached Universal Salvation, ended in exoneration. His teachings were approved as acceptable by the Pope of that time.
I spent 13 years in a Catholic school now at the age of 64 I realize how the church manipulates people I can proudly say I am Gnostic read a lot on Buddhism 🕉️.There’s a difference between believing and knowing ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Hell is real. It’s an in unrestrained state of mind. So when consciousness leaves the restraints of the human body and if consciousness is not developed while alive, it runs amok. As you think it manifests instantly. That’s hell.
Well Yes, What we know as the Doctrine of hellfire came specifically through an amalgamation of hellenistic Influence And medieval interpretation. You can't entirely blame the early church fathers. Depictions of the lake of fire in revelation for instance, Sound extremely familiar to the Hades greeks believed in. But that makes sense as well, The bible writers were immersed in these cultures. It's not possible that They didn't bleed into Their own conceptions.
Many important church fathers wrote that one of the principal joys of Heaven was to listen to the screams of the damned. One of the main sources of intelligence gathering for the Gestapo was neighbors denouncing neighbors.
The Greek for "fire and brimstone" in Revelation is interesting. As I recall, the Greek for :brimstone" or "sulphur" is something like 'ton theon', suggesting that those gone astray (Hebrew, 'resha'im') will be destroyed by the radiant effulgence of God who is like a consuming fire. It's been a while since I've thought about this stuff. I should look it up again. I'm fairly well convinced that all the heavenly visions in Revelation are purely symbolic, or metaphorical, maybe.
@@cygnustsp Maybe you weren't paying attention but most of what he spoke about ISN'T in the Bible. He's referring to Apocryphal literature & Hellenistic concepts.
I'm your huckleberry. Explain why this fellow Would interest me as a JW in training?🤔 I read both Apocryphal literature & greek mythology myself. In that sense I certainly like him, but you seem to think There's something more he can address to me specifically because of my belief system?
@@MultipleGrievance i m not sure to whom u ask this question, i read your comment to cygnustp, which directs me to address the NT does have scriptural passages, entire stories even, taken out from Homer, as per mcdonld s book details the findings. you can search him on prior mythvision podcast. there s some episodes dedicated to that.
I think it would be amazing for you to interview David Bentley Hart and ask him why he’s still a Christian. You could also ask him about why he doesn’t believe in eternal conscious torment 🙂
Eternal torment is wrong. That's is only for demons. Revelation very very clearly say this. That Satan and his demons will be "tormented day and night" this is ONLY said about Satan but it does say that those who are separated from God will cease to exist. The second death is even in the Old testament.
@@donquixote8462 I'll play Devil's advocate (literally). Even Satan's infractions were finite. Why does he deserve infinite punishment? Does God have forgiveness issues?
No matter what anyone has done, if they were in Hell then eventually the punishment would exceed the crime. From that point on, the punishment is moving towards infinitely worse than the crime.
C.S. Lewis, who was well aware of various ancient mythological tropes of the underworld, wrote about hell: “We know much more about heaven than hell, for heaven is the home of humanity and therefore contains all that is implied in a glorified human life: but hell was not made for men. It is in no sense, parallel to heaven: it is 'the darkness outside', the outer rim, where being fades away into nonentity.” (The Problem of Pain) The quotes that MacDonald uses to justify a theological view of torture chamber like schadenfreude theology can only be found in the books that were rejected as apostolic Scriptures by the early church councils. Contrary to what MacDonald articulates, since these apocryphal works were clearly rejected as being fraudulent by the early church leaders & councils they should not be counted as authentic "Christian literature." One of the key canonical New Testament passages used to justify a theological view of Schadenfreude theology is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. However, the Greek word for punishment in Matthew’s account is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees, especially that of grape vines. Dead vine branches that are not tossed out (they were burned in Bible times) can result in wood-infecting fungi like Eutypa dieback disease. Mythical radiance is part of the enchantment of Christianity. For example, at the wedding of Cana which was a preview of the marriage supper of the Lamb, Jesus fulfilled all that was noble & excellent expressed within the archetypal image of Bacchus. The "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Rev. 19) requires a proper wedding garment (Matt. 22)-namely, Christ's righteousness-obtained by faith in His death for our sins and resurrection for our justification. Whatever you do, do not miss this banquet at the end of time by insisting it’s some sort of fictional invitation.
A Christian friend asked me if I wasn't afraid of going to hell in case I was wrong. I replied: if God exists and sends me to hell to be burnt forever just because I do not believe in him, despite me being a good person, He is an evil god. For an evil being there wouldn't be any honor in keeping his word, so the believer couldn't be totally sure that they are not going to be sent to hell as well. Therefore, forcing myself to believe in order to avoid hell wouldn't make me feel safe anyway. At the end of the day, I prefer not to believe in things for which there's no evidence whatsoever more than a few ancient scrolls written by scientific illiterate people who claimed having seen or heard God (or angels) in a dream and who thought the end of times will occur in the first century. And two thousand years later believers still say that "the end is about to happen".
@@tzai89 Yes, I could have. But my friend probably would have answered that Islam is a made up religion and therefore a Muslim hell and everything in the Coran is not true. And my follow-up response could have been 'in the same way Christians aren't afraid of the Muslim hell, because they don't consider the Coran to be true, atheists aren't afraid of the Christian hell nor any other punishment from supernatural beings cause we don't believe in them'. However, I wanted to make my friend aware about the logical implications of the existence of the God of the Bible and His actions; which we all would consider evil acts if we saw other people or depiction of supernatural beings doing it.
Just my opinion. Heaven and hell are the same thing. Distinction between the two is only made in the 'world'. I can imagine that those that are very attached to the 'world' will see the practice as something evil, because you do not concentrate on worldly affairs and are harder to control. I can imagine that those who want to reach that state or have reached it, see it more likely as something good.
Perhaps what was seen as hell might have at it’s core the vision of witnesses as they watched the inhabitants of the under world, as they burned up with molten lava while the cataclysm crunched up the earth and wiped most from existence.
I remember my dad telling me. If you keep being bad. You’re going to hell. The devil will make you wear a huge coat and shovel fiery coal for eternity. That must’ve been the rated G version. lol
None of them actually died as in not coming back, hence, dismissed. "Near" doesn't count, and why would it? Unless you're a Magical Thinker, in which case whatever you want to be true, magically becomes true, right? Funny how not one claim can be replicated and recorded under the steely-eyed, no-nonsense microscope of scientific scrutiny.
@@evangelicalsnever-lie9792 Sometimes I have wondered if these experiences may only be a preview of what’s to come after the resurrection so that when the person finally dies there will be nothing until the resurrection. The Bible does say that, “The dead know not anything.”
@@clarencehammer3556 That's the Old Testament. The New Testament says to be absent from the body (physically/ clinically dead) is to be face to face with the Lord.
Interesting thing is he is doing exactly the same thing he is accusing Dante of. To present a fictional viewpoint from his own perspectives, painting who is right, who is wrong, what hell is, what it is not, why the saints were wrong etc. Very popular technique of diverting the truth by calling it fiction. The concepts of hell as described by Dante is there in Buddhism in great description. It is an integral part of Sanatan and Jainism. Now did people misused it for their own personal goals - definitely yes. There is only one solution and that is to seek the ultimate truth and then comment on it, rather than just read stuff and present a scholarly viewpoint.
no. Buddhist Hells are strictly Karmic. IE you're only there long enough to burn off Karma for your next incarnation. In point of fact, several buddhist "denominations" don't believe in Hell. Kinda fascinating really.
Yes they are Karma based, but so does Dante's hells. Again people don't understand the difference between stories made up to scare people psychogically and the truth about how consciousness and Karma works, or how reincarnation happens. So they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Which buddhist denominations don't believe in hell?@@michaelshigetani433
The Christians' fantasy that their "plan of salvation" protects them from going to hell *_doesn't work any way according to the religion's own beliefs._* What if you go to heaven, and then you rebel against god? Or something else happens to alienate you from god?
You either know God on a personal level and want to be with him or you don't and we all make that choice before we die. How ppl spend their time will determine where their heart is so you either have a heart trying to get to know God or you spend your time chasing something else.
@@therealURBS He was a Devine being and his pride and ego got in his own way. We are not Devine and we don't have the knowledge he had so it's different
To quote another UA-camr, the Distributist, "We already have a massive amount of media which revels in carnality and the debasement of the human body and soul. We call it Pornography."
So I'm not at all coming at this matter this subject of Hell from a Christian standpoint I'm kind of coming at it from a common sense standpoint that is this point. The existence of Hell whether you believe it or not what do you got to lose and thinking it's their because I'll tell you what when you die if there is no hell then it will be no difference to you but if it does exist you're going to find out so it seems to me that you know at a very minimum believing that it actually exists is probably prudently wise giving the situation.
There's just Soo much conflicting information out there about the afterlife heaven/hell etc and ancient books being translated this way and that, not to mention the Near death experience survivors who (with so much conviction some with no religious agenda) that there IS a Hell and it's horrible. No wonder people are confused
Absolutely it's confusing. Not to mention NDE accounts seem to vary based on religion. ----------------------------------------------- "By contrast, the dominant religious imagery of India is Hindu, and predictably NDEs from India typically involve encounters with recognizably Hindu religious figures. Satwant Pasricha and Ian Stevenson provide us with the following case from one of the largest surveys of non-Western NDEs conducted so far: Four black messengers came and held me…. [T]he clerks had a heap of books in front of them…. *Yamraj was there sitting on a high chair with a white beard and wearing yellow clothes.* He asked me, “What do you want?” I told him that I wanted to stay there. He asked me to extend my hand. I don’t remember whether he gave me something or not. Then I was pushed down [and revived] (Pasricha and Stevenson 167). *Here an NDEr is seated near Yamaraj, the Hindu god of death, whose appearance also corresponds to the god’s portrayal in Hindu tradition.* While Western NDErs tend to encounter dead friends and relatives more often than religious figures, Hindu religious figures are prominent in NDEs from India. Additionally, we see that NDErs from different cultures also give different reasons for why they are sent back. Western NDErs are often ‘sent back’ in order to take care of immediate family or for some assumed purpose unknown to them; NDErs from India report meeting clerks in an impersonal afterlife bureaucracy who process the dead and send them back because they have been sent the wrong person due to paperwork mistakes (Pasricha and Stevenson 168-169). *While OBEs are rather common early on in Western NDEs, being visited by a Yamatoot is “the most common initial phase” of Thai NDEs (170).* Where OBEs do occur, “OBEs in Thai NDEs tend immediately to precede meetings with Yamatoots” (171). Tunnels are “largely absent in Thai NDEs” (with one exception unlike Western tunnel experiences), and feelings of peace or euphoria and experiences of light have not been reported at all (172). Thai NDErs are sometimes judged, but their deeds are recounted by reviewing written records of their lives or the testimony of others. The following case is typical: *I … found myself in the judgment hall of Yama’s palace.* I knew that they were ready to judge me for my sins. A giant rooster appeared who told Yama that I had killed him. He emphasized that I had tried to kill him again and again. The rooster also said that he remembered me exactly. An entire flock of roosters also [appeared] and testified that I had killed them, as well. I remembered my actions, and I had to admit that the roosters had told the truth. Yama said that I had committed many sins, and sentenced me to many rebirths both as a chicken, and many other types of birds as well…. But, quite suddenly, an enormous turtle appeared. It screamed at Yama, saying “Don’t take him; he is a good human, and should be allowed to live.” Yama answered the turtle “What did he do to help you?” [ellipses original] (Murphy, “Thailand” 167)." From: *"Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences » Internet Infidels"*
Omg...I know! 🙄 I spend so much time going back & forth! Worrying, then not worrying anymore, then back to worrying again. All because of something I hear somewhere. Like you mentioned about NDE's and whatnot. And also stories from exorcists and ex-satanists and whoever else. It's quite literally exhausting! Lol I find the concept itself ridiculous. I mean, we're basically children. We know practically nothing. And we don't live that long. So to be punished forever, in horrific ways no less, seems to be just about the most evil thing imaginable! But then, there does seem to be a good amount of spooky type evil, I guess. And I just can't figure out what's what at the end of the day. I really don't like this whole nonchalant "you'll find out when you get there" mentality! Lol But I honestly just don't know how to rectify this conundrum. 🤷🏻♂️ Can't tell you how much of my life, peace, and joy it has stolen from me. And continues to do so, in fact. I hate it. Hate the whole concept. And feel pretty bitter about the very possibility ever being thought up or pushed in the first place. I just hope it truly was a human invention, in the end. Even though that will mean I've suffered needlessly... It would still be such a relief to finally know it isn't true! 😇
@@johnnydi2231there are probably versions of hell from other (maybe ancient religions, maybe current religions) that you don’t believe in. I’m assuming these versions of hell don’t scare you. What you need to do is ask yourself why (whatever religion’s version) does scare you and try to evaluate why you give it so much power over you that you don’t give to all the other versions. In my mind, they are ALL man made, and ALL fail to stand up to scrutiny.
As a muslim, I agree that the hell myth is not true, but it doesn't mean that hell in reality version not exist, because the reality of this world, where people suffer from all kind of pain and stressful condition are enough to be categorized as hellish situation. In the case of Divine Guidance from the Divine Scripture, hell can be intepreted as the way people cannot find the solution of their life when searching it from the Divine Scripture, hence they feel that the Divine Scripture is useless for them, but the reality is they are suffering from the punishment of 'hell', where they cant understand the Divine Scripture, because they dont know how to utilize it as a Divine Guidance.
The Rhythm of Life is a movement and a rest. The optimum (Heaven) is always found somewhere between the extremes of too much and too little (hell). Pleasantness is the Rose found at the Heart of the Optimum. Just so. Narrow is the Way and straight the path, and few there are that find it. God = Life Jesus = Humane Humanity Christ = at One with Life Empty of ego (separateness) = Full of Life Holy Spirit = Eternally actualizing Infinite potential We are here to experience completion of Joy in form as conscious creative co-equal collaborators with the all-inclusive One. Soul: Integrated Psyche Mind = Inspiration Heart = Aspiration Will = Volition Integration = Integrity = Soul When the Heart aspires, the Mind inquires and the Will conspires (combines). Dream it, feel it, do it.
God is Love, God is Light, God is Mercy and infinite Grace But He wants Love in return. As such he has given us free will to choose, he has not shown us his full Glory be use he wants you to choose him out of Love and not fear If you had no choice, then it’s not Love. But all choices have consequences, now and in eternity. You choose to Love God or you choose to only live for and love yourself… Empty and meaningless God created the World to give you a real choice to make, so that if you choose him over the World it is sincere Hell is simply choosing the self over God. Choosing the now, instead of Salvation and Life everlasting. Hell is obviously real. Anyone with eyes can see what a life devoid of Love or light is…. Why would anyone allow themselves to be fooled into thinking that if such pain and suffering can and does exist here in the flesh, that it cannot exist in Spirit too…? Choose to have Faith in, to be with, and to truly love the Lord and your Spirit is set free from pain and suffering… or don’t and it won’t. It’s your Choice, he obviously wants your Love, is willing to forgive and accept you if you are sincere. Love is hard, it takes sacrifice, it’s not selfish. You can talk all you want about “scholarly” debates or whatever… it’s not that difficult to understand if you stop and think Peace be with you all.
Wait a minute here. There is a true Hell. It's on Earth and it is during your precious time being wasted by a religious fanatics talking their heads off about their religion!
I'm trying to watch all these. However, i'm curious why you haven't covered buddha or all of the multiple hindu gods. Why go so hard on the jews Christians and Muslims?
I wasn't following him on his comments about pornographic art related to Hell. I would love to understand this better...😂 I feel I need to research what he was talking about. I have spent much of my life... let's call it "researching pornography." 😂 Apparently I missed a few websites 😂
It's used often to describe something people are obsessed with and watch,look at ect even if it's not related at all with sex. Like war porn, car porn, water porn ect. It's a very modern term for things because I never heard the word porn used outside of sexual context until the last ten years or so. .
I think the notion of hell they tried to sell is doubly heinous, once you realize what you experience when you gain enlightenment. People describe it as a sun, a star, a flame, a fire, a divine spark that you experience. Notice that it is basically the same as those who had near death experiences. I think they tried to make people believe that that too was the entrance to hell. Why? Because that state holds a tremendous power. Some hindu texts tell that it burns away karma. It's like a bath. You return cleaner. Similarly christians will say that Christ 'died' for their sins. This dying is only dying in this world, he went to this blissful state, call it brahman and came back without sins. You'll return with a brandnew perspective. BUT what will you think when you return when previously people told you it was hell? Maybe their goal was to hold even more power over you. But when you leave that state and you have to make up concepts for it yourself, most of the time people will see it as blissful.
If you haven't signed up for Dennis MacDonald's course, you really should.
Sign up here for Dennis MacDonald's course "Reading The Gospels With One Eye on Greek Poetry" - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/homeric-mimesis
@@jeremiah6540 Yes another Greek Legend & religious cult favorite: the Legend of Orpheus & Euridike has him going to Hades to bring his dead love back.
That's what sacrificing the First born means (... it's a kind of conditioned self, attached to the world, you give up)... then it the 'first death' occurs... you become one with the Father,... then of course you return, that's the 'resurrection' (some might say you've fallen out of Paradise)...
The second death occurs when your physical body dies in this world. This is Nirvana.
-- The fall from Paradise was no joke. Lucifer is the Morning Star. Note that Christ was also called that.
-- Lucifer is not named in the bible iirc. The morning star is, but this refers to its course through the sky... An earthly king is compared to that star, for even though it is the brightest in the sky it doesn't climb as high as say Saturn or Jupiter, but falls back to earth rather quickly. Then this is actually saying the opposite of what Christ is meant to mean... too much attachment to the world, will never bring you enlightenment.
-- Going on the path of christ, through the method, or through deep meditation, will make you see the light (this is literally what happens)... hence Christ as a lightbringer.
- note that Saturn might be a stand-in for Yahweh, (yaldaboath, the creator) according to gnostics the bad guy...because it's the thing that creates the world again and kicks you out of paradise...
-- and Jupiter a stand-in for the 'heavenly father' or El, the leader of gods, known through the divine spark for gnostics...
-- note that a Flood would also erase everything (except the true son)... through history a flood was called, because it came too noisy for the God or there was too much sin... (too much noise or sin is basically the same thing... your mind gets overloaded... this literally points to the method on how to do it). Noah and Jesus were doing the same thing. In Noah's case it was water, for Christ it was fire.
Some metaphors, imho, can only be understood by reaching the enlightenment state itself, and then it's still a mess. Some vedas or zen buddhist text are better understood. They don't seem to have so much 'politics' attached to it.
How can anyone imagine that an eternity of suffering is justice? Regardless of what evil someone did during their brief, finite time while they were on the Earth.
@@ghernandez226325 earth years and half of eternity.
I'll Do you one better....if one existence is eternal and the other finite (ie only lasting one lifetime) then why would you call the brief existence life and the eternal one death...?? Have you ever considered that this is death and what comes next is life? Think about it because that's what the ancients thought.. This is the underworld, the land of the dead
No one wants it. Not even God wants it. But hell is a choice that he has to respect.
Hell is not designed to make anyone suffer. It is designed to be isolated away from God.
If you don't like serving others, you don't want to be with God.
@@fynflorentine2512 where do you get this idea from? What’s the point of resurrection & turning the wicked to ashes? The Bible mentions death countless times & the alternate thru Jesus is “eternal” life
@@fynflorentine2512 i see you skipped my comment lol what you fail to realize is that to the ancients this world we live in is hell, not that judeo Christian nonsense but the Norse version.. The lowest part of the tree of life.. we've fallen from the spiritual world and descended into matter... Where's your soul? It's entombed in flesh the element of earth..
Why do you think they say that Satan is the lord of this world?? You people need to wake up, this isn't life that comes next.. This is death, the underworld we must escape just as they did the ancient myths .. this isn't my opinion btw it's the first thing you're taught in any mystery school.. that's why you'll see so much death symbolism in the initiation rituals of secret societies like the masons and skull and bones... All secret societies are just mystery schools in disguise
As a Polish Catholic, I was raised to fear hell from childhood. It never leaves you completely.
Me too but as a Pentecostal.
Seek out the Origin of All human religions & God worship & you will
find 3 Planets.............Saturn,Venus & Mars.......The Father,Mother & Son,
The Original Trinity..Set yourself free!
@@carlo6912Do Pentecostals get to run around in Hell like they do during church services? 😂
@RobKoch1962 The real Gods of Humanity,the Original Gods were the
Planets Saturn,Venus & Mars.....The Father
Mother Son Trinity.If you feared any God it
was Venus as she was the destroyer,flood
bringer to humanity.
It can leave you, if you change your thinking to this:
Why should anyone care about Christianity anyway? *It just doesn't matter by its own poorly thought out design.*
Due to being a poorly thought out, conflicting and contradictory religion, _it just doesn't matter."_
With a tri-omni, presuppositional, so-called "god" that has a predecided plan, _nothing one does matters._
In order for the god to exist, nothing it supposedly sees in the future _can be wrong._ Or now we have busted the supposed All Knowing "god,"
*Question:*
1). Does this supposedly omnicient, omnipotent, omnipresent, presuppositional, so-called "god" that we're to believe "knows all things"…
…this version of "god" that you want everyone to believe in…
*_…does it know…_*
…who will go to Christianity's supposed *"hell"…*
*_👉 BEFORE* it "creates" each person?
2). In light of question #1, it becomes readily apparent that the ONLY way the Christian god model can work with a tri-omni god with a pre-determined "plan," is _pre-determination._
The Calvinists actually thought it through, got the logic right, and came to that simple logic truth - Christianity does NOT get to have it both ways!
If your god knows all, and "only a relative few make it" *as the bible describes* - then the Christian god is meaningless.
Nothing anyone says or doesn't say, does or doesnt do, wasn't already known and planned for by the supposed god 10 quadrillion year's ago and to 'infinity in the past' if such exists.
If the god saw infinity 10²³ years ago (ha ha) that it would create *you* for "heaven" then it _must manipulate your life to lead you to exactly that._
Exactly what it saw ahead of time MUST happen - or it's a fraud god liar, that doesn't know a truthful future.
Same thing for this supposed "hell." If the god sees anyone being tossed into hell, BEFORE creating them, then it created them for that purpose - eternal torture.
The god MUST do whatever it takes to insure that what it _THOUGHT_ was truth in the future - actually _is_ truth…
It MUST insure your life events and path leads you to "hell" or it's a total fraud god that doesn't know a truthful future. j
Starting to see what a contradictory, deceptive joke the religion is?
The god sees the human majority going to "hell" BEFORE even creating them. *And the contradictory, conflicting bible even admits it!*
This means if the "Future Vision" that the the god supposedly saw 10 quadrillion years ago…
…does not turn out to be 100% perfectly accurate with it's supposed knowledge of the future…
_…then this is not the supposed god you've been gaslit and threatened into believing in. It's something much different, or most likely doesn't exist, per the assertions you were indoctrinated, threatend and frightened into believing in, if it exists at all.
A very cool explanation of the horror we all suffered as believers. Thank you so much.
@@ring-tone278 I read the bible many times, dude. Tell me something I don't know. Better yet, ask yourself who told you to believe what you believe, and why did you believe him/ her. There is a mind inside of you, which no one is entitled to tell you how to use. Use it freely, ask them as many questions as you please and then come back here and tell me I'm going to hell because your bible says so. Greetings.
That is what people are asking for, an honest explanation about what you mentioned.
I grew up pentecostal with a real fear of hell. It took me years to get over this madness.
I am with you. Soooooo grateful to NOT be part of the insanity 🙏
Never be unafraid of becoming evil. If hell exists, the worst thing about it isn't any kind of physical torture. It's that it alters you into an evil person where you inflict torture as well as receive it. We know that kind of stuff exists on earth with all the drug addiction issues. The question is, does it continue beyond the grave?
Hell is real, but it ain't after or death and is not eternal unless you choose that. As it says in the Psalms " The wicked shall be TURNED INTO hell"
why would you have such a traumatic fear of hell if you grew up with Christ? You should know he is your savior
@@kiwidubz reLIEgions are based on fear, ssssstrrreeess, emotionally traumatizing, ....everything WRONG and negative about you.
I was never into religion until 3 years ago. America’s division and media propaganda had me depressed. So I jumped into Christianity at full bore. There were some beliefs that I could not embrace. Like the world is only 6 thousand years old told by my brother in law. I then began to look at scholars. Especially Mike Heiser. What struck me like a bolt of lightning that the bible is not a textbook. Then my brother in law asked me have you started service for the church yet. I replied no. He then said I’ll pray for you that the enemy creeps up and its a death trap for you. Then I decided to dig even further and found Dr Justin Sledge, Bart Ehrman, and many others on UA-cam. Bought many books and I’m starting to be free at last! Thank you ladies and gentlemen for keeping this informed Atheist happy!
My Catholic parents from Ireland were skeptical of hell. If hell were mentioned by a teacher or priest, my mother would say, "How do they know. Were they there? My father always in a witty way told us not to listen to priests when they talked about politics or religion. One teacher nun made it clear that hell may exist but no one is in it. The nun was getting her PhD at Columbia U in mEdival Women mystics. An uncle, also from Ireland, took it on himself ton correct what we might be being taught at Catholic school, pointed out that GHod loves everone, Catholic or not, and that God's love is eternal, never ceasing, and that God in hismlove could not possibly torture anone forever. The psrents and uncles were all from the same place in Ireland. It must have retasined the Irius Jesuit's teaching of "modernism" tat was condemned by the pope.
Consider yourself fortunate my friend and be sure to tell your parents, your aunts and uncles and that nun thank you for keeping you out of that awful mental trap that has caused so much mental illness.
Break the shackles of fear!❤
Ive never been more proud of humanity!!
A thought experiment also got me out of the hell doctrine. Imagine if God told you that you are now in charge of Hell to do what you wish with all those souls that have been tormented for the past 20,000 or more years. That you have His authority and that He trusts you because you have been faithful in so much. Well I don't know about you, but I would be getting ready to deal out some mercy! Lighten things up and start seeing about letting them go. How can I be more merciful than God?
Yep
You mentioned 20,000 years. Let's extend this thought experiment. What about lesser evolved ape-men from 30,000 years ago? Or 1,000,000 years ago? At what point back in time was the ape creature too animal & insufficiently human to be held accountable? I'm assuming you wouldn't think a naughty ape at a zoo should suffer eternal flames. So at some point as you roll forward in time you've got to make a call that the cave man is finally ready to be held accountable for violations of rules.
😂 that's a terrible thought experiment that says Evil Incarnate thinks just like you. Haha also the doctrine of eternal torment is wrong. This is only reserved for the demonic. Revelation and Jesus' own words clearly states this. Hell for most people will be "the outer darkness"
If calling yourself God and doing things differently because you think you have a better system than God counts as a thought experiment then yes this was a thought experiment.
@@PaulH581 so you are pro hell then ? Like you want there to be a hell where good and bad people go that don’t believe that a loving god world torture them for all of eternity?
I think heaven and hell is a state of mind that we cultivate ourselves. If we live in true goodness, on our path fulfilling our full potential to enhance the human experience then we create heaven, we feel really good therefore we are creating the place where we go when we pass over ourselves. Same with hell, if we create suffering and pain to others we are tormented by our conscious and wallowing in our our self pity and misery. We create our own destiny, judgement and exploration into various states of existence. Our souls are eternal, if we find ourselves in a place that seems like hell it is just a purging process that purifies the soul. We are multidimensional space travellers capable of altering and manifesting reality with consciousness.
Don't get me wrong, I like what you're saying. But is there any evidence to support a belief in what you're saying? Wishing something were true doesn't make it a reality. That's what we've been making fun of the Christians for.
I agree with you
@@danmurray1143 my beliefs are from personal experience not what others say. I don't commit to believing anything lightly. I was brought up in a extremely controlling religion (JW cult) and it as taking me years of studying, research and death defying experiences to find my own truth. I am 56 years old, I left my family because of their mind control religion when I was 16. I don't need to convince anyone of what I know, we are all on our own journey. You simply can't comprehend what some people have been through so I won't even try to explain how I know what I know. You have to find your own truth. I spend a lot of time in the spiritual, etheric and astral realms, fighting demons and promoting holy spirit. I serve the Most High to create peace and harmony on this planet. That is my calling, duty and mission.
@@ring-tone278 what about people who have another religion? Are they lost souls?
@@eprd313 yeah, there's lots of sane people in mental wards. If you want to go with the crowd and be a sheep being led to the slaughter that's up to you. If you'd rather be lazy and believe what other people say instead of finding things out for yourself that's also up to you. I think for myself, at one time everyone believed that the sun rotated around the planet. We will never expand and evolve if we are close minded and stuck in old fashioned thought processes. Try to think outside the box and be a pioneer in forward thinking or be stuck in the mud, that's up to you. Many genius people were put into asylums because they resisted against the matrix. You're words do not insult me or my intelligence.
This guy is a genius
😂
I love the connecting point of the origins of torture porn with the early church's art.
And here I thought that wasn't a thing until some filmmaker made the movie "Saw". 😂
Fear based religion for sure 💯
Completely fear based and thanks for telling me nothing I didn’t already know 🙏
@@ring-tone278besides liking your own comments and spamming with copy pasted material, don't you have anything else to do?
@@eprd313 spamming more scripted responses in atheist channels probably.
@@littleswol1 Snooty much.
Like When Mom Said, Just Wait Until Your Father Gets Home.
Dad Comes Home, Nothing Happens, And He’s In A Great Mood.
It’s The Threat…❤
Bart Ehrman’s book “Heaven and Hell” might be a good read if you enjoied this.
Thanks for this, for the longest time I had my thoughts on this subject
Hello Greetings from Norway!
I'm very thankful for this youtube channel! Thank's a thousand times! Now i ordered like 6 books, recommended from various MV podcast-programs. "Christmas gift for my self..." Keep spreading the knowledge!
Oh yeah Dante has quite the lovecraftian style imagination.
I have never been able to balance an all loving, all powerful, all forgiving God with damnation for all eternity for the mostly small inconsequential sins we commmit in the blink of an eye in eternal terms. If we don't measure up why not just make it that we no longer exist, why torture us with no chance of redemption from hell? I have never understood how these two can co-exist with each other.
I've always found it utterly repugnant and ridiculous, but so hard to shake.
@@richardwitherow5289 yes i know, agree with one of the other comments about being raised a catholic, it is so hard to completely shake off. If it were true, we are in derp trouble.
@@garyhendrie4001 We're not going to be in any deep trouble, Gary. It simply isn't true and there isn't a shred of evidence to support the claims of those who insist it is.
@@richardwitherow5289 but if it were.....
Derek you look so healthy in mind and body; I was not aware you had additction challenges. Thanks for the work you're doing. ❤
If there is any truth to the scriptures at all at one point in time it is been completely obliterated
Well done finding inspiration for such myths through syncretism of even older religions like Zoroastrianism and Egyptian myths.
The cross cultural references about hell are hilariously obvious too, im mad i didnt catch alot of these years ago
Thanks for the share ….. found this offering of wisdom and good words like medicine even got a laugh ….. much appreciation 🙏
Take care ✝️
Assuming you're Christian. Thanks for stepping outside of the echo chamber to listen to other's views. I don't see that done often, or so politely.
Thank you MythVision and Dr.MacDonald
What got me out of hell ... well the doctrine of hell was a dream with a voice telling me something and the next day a synchronicity involving what that voice was telling me corresponding exactly at the same with an investigation on the topic of hell made me realize that what we were taught about hell is not true. Blew me away!
could you elaborate?
@@pandawandasi had been in the process of shedding so much doctrinal indoctrination that was a result of an emotional-mental heaviness that had come to a head where it was so heavy for like a year maybe. So i had finally started to lighten up and was exploring alternate christian doctrines. Really looking hard at universalism. Well one night i had a dream about a number. A voice kept telling me over and over and over that it was a good number, a mighty fine number. When i woke up, i was thinking lottery maybe or something like that. It was Saturday but i was taking the day to do some work on my computer while listening to youtube videos on liberal christian doctrines. I had wrote that number on a small sticky note and pasted it to the lower right side of my computer monitor. One of the theological videos i was listening to was about hell. That if it did exist it was temporary so short that it was literally a split second... so.. when the video ended, i saw the ticker for the video elapsed time. It was right beside my sticky note and it was the same number.
You had a dream and then something that you perceived as corresponding to your dream happened the next day?
That's what made you change your belief system?
@@MultipleGrievance yes! Edit: and "belief system" what is that anyway. For me it was an indoctrinational system or a program embedded in my psyche. It was a problem. A big problem. My guess is that someone outside this realm saw that i needed that program removed. So i was helped. Edit #2: and since then my life has been more abundant
@@clubdesalud1488
It sounds to me like you're just describing Learning. One man's indoctrination is another's Education.
What usually Initiates why a person interprets Learning a particular thing as indoctrination is a choice they make.
They choose to view the information as bad in some way.
Now all of a sudden it's not learning, It's indoctrination.
The production quality of these videos are pro level now.
Dante's interest in hell makes him sound like a US Evangelical ahead of time.
This was brilliant! Thanks Derek and Dr MacDonald!
Anyone who glibly says "Hitler should go to Hell" as a example of it's validity is instantly more evil than Hitler. To consider deeply the concept of eternity, outside of space and time, locked in an endless loop..universes will come and go but this human is tortured forever. Yes, to want anyone or anything to suffer that for any reason is pure, distilled evil
15:19 Second death? That's only for people who were born again.
Of all the things that happened between my mom, the only two things I can't forgive are
1. Shipping me off to Lakeside Christian School for hellfire and brimstone sermons.
2. Having me circumcised.
Thanks for sharing this discussion.
What about the Sartrean idea that "Hell is other people"?
So I see you've met my ex-wife. 😂
Everyone gets thrown into the same pit. The Christians like it though, if only to gloat over their critics.
Lucky me to see this right away!!
What about SHEOL?
Sheol was more or less the grave.
@@Raiden-the-Goat32
Rubbish, it is the afterlife. No heaven, no hell.
The first time I saw Bosch’s Garden of Earthly Delights I was told that he had accidentally eaten ergot. This was in circa 1970.
Last year I researched his work. From what I learned he was far from trippy, he was trying to scare the freak out of people.
My father had an old copy of Dante’s Inferno with the wonderful Dore’ artwork. As a little girl in the 1950s I found the drawings fascinating and wanted to learn how Dore’ could do that!
One branch of my family fully believes in Hell. I grew up without the fear. However, now being a Septuagenarian I a don’t find the belief silly anymore. It harms folks.
Then again, now with people researching Soul Trap/Demuiuge/Matrix. All of the terrifying NDE stories! Well, mandatory reincarnation based on some bad thing you did after being inspected by some astral counsel…. Bosch’s Hell sounds better!
My most favorite modern depiction of Hell is in the film Little Nicky.
Thanks for this video!
I am not deep into gnosticism but demiurge mythology gives me some kind of hope, some strength to rebel against all the wrong in the world.
I even had a dream recently , inspired by gnosticism, where I was making some kind of an insurgency against him.
I remember walking over some sketchy planks above a wide well that leads to Hades.
The journey led me through various landscapes, buildings, including a disgusting toilet.
I was alone in the struggle, for others worshipped Demiurge, so I had to sneak around.
Finally I was saved, either Demiurge or the supreme God was impressed by my little rebellion and intervened to free me from the schackles of this world.
So the Hell myth was created to keep us rightous. Well, despite being atheist, all that's happened is it's ruined my life and stripped away any desire to do any good because I think I'm going to Hell. What a disastrous evil that the story has given the world.
alot of this is related to nde's but can also tie into our consciousness also related to these myths and is relative and not a fixed thing how the 'after' death experience shows to the experiencer
In the Eastern Church there was a strong tradition of universal salvationsummarized in "No one is saced until all are saved." The "until" referred to God's time, the eternal now. Bishop Burnfield wrote a book thoroughly explicating Universal Salvation. He uses the Bible as well as other arguments for Universal Salvation. The book is called "Patristic Universalism." The trial s by bishops of St. Maximus the Confessor, who preached Universal Salvation, ended in exoneration. His teachings were approved as acceptable by the Pope of that time.
If so can those redeemed from eternal cremation (hell) do so without having a desire to acknowledge & be with Jesus as their Lord & Savior?
Mythology is very powerful in the human psyche
It's inseparable actually
I spent 13 years in a Catholic school now at the age of 64 I realize how the church manipulates people I can proudly say I am Gnostic read a lot on Buddhism 🕉️.There’s a difference between believing and knowing ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Totally magnificent ❤
ほんとうにすばらしいですね ⚘
はい。
This was the best explanation ever
Hell is real. It’s an in unrestrained state of mind. So when consciousness leaves the restraints of the human body and if consciousness is not developed while alive, it runs amok. As you think it manifests instantly. That’s hell.
Love is our safety equipment ❤️🛟
@@TrueLoveLovesAll it who we actually are. That is our essence.
I have been suffering for most of my life and I once believed that this cruel world is a bastion of HELL
You are such a beautiful soul, may joy forever be with you ❤️
10:00 If you revel in the thought of how God is going to punish your enemies, you haven't understood the very core of Jesus' teaching.
Well Yes,
What we know as the Doctrine of hellfire came specifically through an amalgamation of hellenistic Influence And medieval interpretation.
You can't entirely blame the early church fathers. Depictions of the lake of fire in revelation for instance, Sound extremely familiar to the Hades greeks believed in.
But that makes sense as well,
The bible writers were immersed in these cultures. It's not possible that They didn't bleed into Their own conceptions.
Yes, it is nice to realize hell doesn't exist.
Many important church fathers wrote that one of the principal joys of Heaven was to listen to the screams of the damned. One of the main sources of intelligence gathering for the Gestapo was neighbors denouncing neighbors.
What about NDE's?
The Greek for "fire and brimstone" in Revelation is interesting. As I recall, the Greek for :brimstone" or "sulphur" is something like 'ton theon', suggesting that those gone astray (Hebrew, 'resha'im') will be destroyed by the radiant effulgence of God who is like a consuming fire. It's been a while since I've thought about this stuff. I should look it up again. I'm fairly well convinced that all the heavenly visions in Revelation are purely symbolic, or metaphorical, maybe.
fits the season, "be good for goodness sake🤔
free them from evil
so a propos, i recommended this guest from your show just a few hours ago to some die hard JW. u r tuned to the realms of the gods to deliver.
This is way above most JWs heads. They'll think he's speaking nonsense about stuff that isn't in the Bible so it doesn't matter.
@@cygnustsp
Maybe you weren't paying attention but most of what he spoke about ISN'T in the Bible.
He's referring to Apocryphal literature & Hellenistic concepts.
I'm your huckleberry.
Explain why this fellow Would interest me as a JW in training?🤔
I read both Apocryphal literature & greek mythology myself. In that sense I certainly like him, but you seem to think There's something more he can address to me specifically because of my belief system?
@@MultipleGrievance i m not sure to whom u ask this question, i read your comment to cygnustp, which directs me to address the NT does have scriptural passages, entire stories even, taken out from Homer, as per mcdonld s book details the findings. you can search him on prior mythvision podcast. there s some episodes dedicated to that.
@@MultipleGrievance yeah, you didn't pay attention to what I said
I think it would be amazing for you to interview David Bentley Hart and ask him why he’s still a Christian. You could also ask him about why he doesn’t believe in eternal conscious torment 🙂
"Eternal conscious torment?" How do you know about my 1st marriage? 😂
@@danmurray1143 😆
Eternal torment is wrong. That's is only for demons. Revelation very very clearly say this. That Satan and his demons will be "tormented day and night" this is ONLY said about Satan but it does say that those who are separated from God will cease to exist. The second death is even in the Old testament.
@@donquixote8462 I'll play Devil's advocate (literally). Even Satan's infractions were finite. Why does he deserve infinite punishment? Does God have forgiveness issues?
No matter what anyone has done, if they were in Hell then eventually the punishment would exceed the crime. From that point on, the punishment is moving towards infinitely worse than the crime.
C.S. Lewis, who was well aware of various ancient mythological tropes of the underworld, wrote about hell:
“We know much more about heaven than hell, for heaven is the home of humanity and therefore contains all that is implied in a glorified human life: but hell was not made for men. It is in no sense, parallel to heaven: it is 'the darkness outside', the outer rim, where being fades away into nonentity.” (The Problem of Pain)
The quotes that MacDonald uses to justify a theological view of torture chamber like schadenfreude theology can only be found in the books that were rejected as apostolic Scriptures by the early church councils. Contrary to what MacDonald articulates, since these apocryphal works were clearly rejected as being fraudulent by the early church leaders & councils they should not be counted as authentic "Christian literature."
One of the key canonical New Testament passages used to justify a theological view of Schadenfreude theology is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life.
However, the Greek word for punishment in Matthew’s account is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees, especially that of grape vines. Dead vine branches that are not tossed out (they were burned in Bible times) can result in wood-infecting fungi like Eutypa dieback disease.
Mythical radiance is part of the enchantment of Christianity. For example, at the wedding of Cana which was a preview of the marriage supper of the Lamb, Jesus fulfilled all that was noble & excellent expressed within the archetypal image of Bacchus.
The "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Rev. 19) requires a proper wedding garment (Matt. 22)-namely, Christ's righteousness-obtained by faith in His death for our sins and resurrection for our justification. Whatever you do, do not miss this banquet at the end of time by insisting it’s some sort of fictional invitation.
2:55
Ouchy that sucks. Thank you very much 😅
Dont forget about ahmet devourer of souls (egypt) which really eradicates spirit.
A Christian friend asked me if I wasn't afraid of going to hell in case I was wrong. I replied: if God exists and sends me to hell to be burnt forever just because I do not believe in him, despite me being a good person, He is an evil god. For an evil being there wouldn't be any honor in keeping his word, so the believer couldn't be totally sure that they are not going to be sent to hell as well. Therefore, forcing myself to believe in order to avoid hell wouldn't make me feel safe anyway. At the end of the day, I prefer not to believe in things for which there's no evidence whatsoever more than a few ancient scrolls written by scientific illiterate people who claimed having seen or heard God (or angels) in a dream and who thought the end of times will occur in the first century. And two thousand years later believers still say that "the end is about to happen".
@@tzai89 Yes, I could have. But my friend probably would have answered that Islam is a made up religion and therefore a Muslim hell and everything in the Coran is not true. And my follow-up response could have been 'in the same way Christians aren't afraid of the Muslim hell, because they don't consider the Coran to be true, atheists aren't afraid of the Christian hell nor any other punishment from supernatural beings cause we don't believe in them'. However, I wanted to make my friend aware about the logical implications of the existence of the God of the Bible and His actions; which we all would consider evil acts if we saw other people or depiction of supernatural beings doing it.
The concept seems present in Buddhism, Hinduism ,Zoroastrianism and other religious traditions.
Hell is the total absence of good !
When MIND came into existence to our Spirit, the games of laws, and knowledge started
Just my opinion. Heaven and hell are the same thing.
Distinction between the two is only made in the 'world'.
I can imagine that those that are very attached to the 'world' will see the practice as something evil, because you do not concentrate on worldly affairs and are harder to control.
I can imagine that those who want to reach that state or have reached it, see it more likely as something good.
"If I believed in Hell, I would want to put people that believe in Hell there." 😂
Perhaps what was seen as hell might have at it’s core the vision of witnesses as they watched the inhabitants of the under world, as they burned up with molten lava while the cataclysm crunched up the earth and wiped most from existence.
Those who glee about those going to hell are the ones that are the twisted demented deranged....one's and know nothing of REAL.
I remember my dad telling me. If you keep being bad. You’re going to hell. The devil will make you wear a huge coat and shovel fiery coal for eternity. That must’ve been the rated G version. lol
Christian Mythology is full of some truly crazy fables for sure.
What about all those testimonials from people who have experienced NDEs?
None of them actually died as in not coming back, hence, dismissed. "Near" doesn't count, and why would it? Unless you're a Magical Thinker, in which case whatever you want to be true, magically becomes true, right?
Funny how not one claim can be replicated and recorded under the steely-eyed, no-nonsense microscope of scientific scrutiny.
@@evangelicalsnever-lie9792 Sometimes I have wondered if these experiences may only be a preview of what’s to come after the resurrection so that when the person finally dies there will be nothing until the resurrection. The Bible does say that, “The dead know not anything.”
@@clarencehammer3556 That's the Old Testament. The New Testament says to be absent from the body (physically/ clinically dead) is to be face to face with the Lord.
Interesting thing is he is doing exactly the same thing he is accusing Dante of. To present a fictional viewpoint from his own perspectives, painting who is right, who is wrong, what hell is, what it is not, why the saints were wrong etc. Very popular technique of diverting the truth by calling it fiction. The concepts of hell as described by Dante is there in Buddhism in great description. It is an integral part of Sanatan and Jainism. Now did people misused it for their own personal goals - definitely yes. There is only one solution and that is to seek the ultimate truth and then comment on it, rather than just read stuff and present a scholarly viewpoint.
no.
Buddhist Hells are strictly Karmic. IE you're only there long enough to burn off Karma for your next incarnation. In point of fact, several buddhist "denominations" don't believe in Hell. Kinda fascinating really.
Yes they are Karma based, but so does Dante's hells. Again people don't understand the difference between stories made up to scare people psychogically and the truth about how consciousness and Karma works, or how reincarnation happens. So they throw the baby out with the bathwater. Which buddhist denominations don't believe in hell?@@michaelshigetani433
The Christians' fantasy that their "plan of salvation" protects them from going to hell *_doesn't work any way according to the religion's own beliefs._* What if you go to heaven, and then you rebel against god? Or something else happens to alienate you from god?
In heaven you're at peace so why would a person want to rebel when they're in a place of peace and harmony?
You either know God on a personal level and want to be with him or you don't and we all make that choice before we die. How ppl spend their time will determine where their heart is so you either have a heart trying to get to know God or you spend your time chasing something else.
@@lucialare7590Satan was in a place a peace and harmony. What caused him to rebel?
@@therealURBS He was a Devine being and his pride and ego got in his own way. We are not Devine and we don't have the knowledge he had so it's different
Hell is mostly used as a coping mechanism for believers to dismiss “non believers”
Isn't it curious that all of the phantasmagorical, imaginings and proclamations throughout all of human religiosity have no evidence whatsoever?
To quote another UA-camr, the Distributist, "We already have a massive amount of media which revels in carnality and the debasement of the human body and soul. We call it Pornography."
I watch plenty of horror fantasy movies,hell must be real😂😂😂
Oh Hell is real. Have you had to suffer through a Disney movie lately? 😂 I'd rather the flames 😅
So I'm not at all coming at this matter this subject of Hell from a Christian standpoint I'm kind of coming at it from a common sense standpoint that is this point. The existence of Hell whether you believe it or not what do you got to lose and thinking it's their because I'll tell you what when you die if there is no hell then it will be no difference to you but if it does exist you're going to find out so it seems to me that you know at a very minimum believing that it actually exists is probably prudently wise giving the situation.
There's just Soo much conflicting information out there about the afterlife heaven/hell etc and ancient books being translated this way and that, not to mention the Near death experience survivors who (with so much conviction some with no religious agenda) that there IS a Hell and it's horrible. No wonder people are confused
Absolutely it's confusing. Not to mention NDE accounts seem to vary based on religion.
-----------------------------------------------
"By contrast, the dominant religious imagery of India is Hindu, and predictably NDEs from India typically involve encounters with recognizably Hindu religious figures. Satwant Pasricha and Ian Stevenson provide us with the following case from one of the largest surveys of non-Western NDEs conducted so far:
Four black messengers came and held me…. [T]he clerks had a heap of books in front of them…. *Yamraj was there sitting on a high chair with a white beard and wearing yellow clothes.* He asked me, “What do you want?” I told him that I wanted to stay there. He asked me to extend my hand. I don’t remember whether he gave me something or not. Then I was pushed down [and revived] (Pasricha and Stevenson 167).
*Here an NDEr is seated near Yamaraj, the Hindu god of death, whose appearance also corresponds to the god’s portrayal in Hindu tradition.* While Western NDErs tend to encounter dead friends and relatives more often than religious figures, Hindu religious figures are prominent in NDEs from India. Additionally, we see that NDErs from different cultures also give different reasons for why they are sent back. Western NDErs are often ‘sent back’ in order to take care of immediate family or for some assumed purpose unknown to them; NDErs from India report meeting clerks in an impersonal afterlife bureaucracy who process the dead and send them back because they have been sent the wrong person due to paperwork mistakes (Pasricha and Stevenson 168-169).
*While OBEs are rather common early on in Western NDEs, being visited by a Yamatoot is “the most common initial phase” of Thai NDEs (170).* Where OBEs do occur, “OBEs in Thai NDEs tend immediately to precede meetings with Yamatoots” (171). Tunnels are “largely absent in Thai NDEs” (with one exception unlike Western tunnel experiences), and feelings of peace or euphoria and experiences of light have not been reported at all (172). Thai NDErs are sometimes judged, but their deeds are recounted by reviewing written records of their lives or the testimony of others. The following case is typical:
*I … found myself in the judgment hall of Yama’s palace.* I knew that they were ready to judge me for my sins. A giant rooster appeared who told Yama that I had killed him. He emphasized that I had tried to kill him again and again. The rooster also said that he remembered me exactly. An entire flock of roosters also [appeared] and testified that I had killed them, as well. I remembered my actions, and I had to admit that the roosters had told the truth. Yama said that I had committed many sins, and sentenced me to many rebirths both as a chicken, and many other types of birds as well…. But, quite suddenly, an enormous turtle appeared. It screamed at Yama, saying “Don’t take him; he is a good human, and should be allowed to live.” Yama answered the turtle “What did he do to help you?” [ellipses original] (Murphy, “Thailand” 167)."
From:
*"Hallucinatory Near-Death Experiences » Internet Infidels"*
Omg...I know! 🙄 I spend so much time going back & forth! Worrying, then not worrying anymore, then back to worrying again. All because of something I hear somewhere. Like you mentioned about NDE's and whatnot. And also stories from exorcists and ex-satanists and whoever else.
It's quite literally exhausting! Lol
I find the concept itself ridiculous. I mean, we're basically children. We know practically nothing. And we don't live that long. So to be punished forever, in horrific ways no less, seems to be just about the most evil thing imaginable!
But then, there does seem to be a good amount of spooky type evil, I guess. And I just can't figure out what's what at the end of the day. I really don't like this whole nonchalant "you'll find out when you get there" mentality! Lol
But I honestly just don't know how to rectify this conundrum. 🤷🏻♂️
Can't tell you how much of my life, peace, and joy it has stolen from me. And continues to do so, in fact. I hate it. Hate the whole concept. And feel pretty bitter about the very possibility ever being thought up or pushed in the first place. I just hope it truly was a human invention, in the end. Even though that will mean I've suffered needlessly... It would still be such a relief to finally know it isn't true! 😇
@@johnnydi2231there are probably versions of hell from other (maybe ancient religions, maybe current religions) that you don’t believe in. I’m assuming these versions of hell don’t scare you. What you need to do is ask yourself why (whatever religion’s version) does scare you and try to evaluate why you give it so much power over you that you don’t give to all the other versions. In my mind, they are ALL man made, and ALL fail to stand up to scrutiny.
@@homespuncovers89Spot on homespun, you nailed it!
As a muslim, I agree that the hell myth is not true, but it doesn't mean that hell in reality version not exist, because the reality of this world, where people suffer from all kind of pain and stressful condition are enough to be categorized as hellish situation.
In the case of Divine Guidance from the Divine Scripture, hell can be intepreted as the way people cannot find the solution of their life when searching it from the Divine Scripture, hence they feel that the Divine Scripture is useless for them, but the reality is they are suffering from the punishment of 'hell', where they cant understand the Divine Scripture, because they dont know how to utilize it as a Divine Guidance.
The Myth of Fast Food: Manipulative Propaganda of The Burgers | Dr. Ronald MacDonald
😂
Well ive been shown hell so. Many nde and hell testimonies on youtube also
Plenty of anecdotal evidence for Bigfoot, aliens, leprechauns and the lochness monster too.
Does that prove all these things real?
@@BenjiKane-rw1zn I dont believe that I've seen many of ppl of other religions describing seeing Jesus
The purpose of hell is to make ppl scare straight to do good cuz fear is the best motivator
Qhen- I'd died, I was between Acceptance & Attatchment; there's neither, it's how my subconscious perceived death; so, I knew, I was still of a mind.
Jesus sitting on a throne is truly a vision of hell
Do not fear, simply believe. Hell is what Jesus has come to save us from.
I feel sorry for you
The Rhythm of Life is a movement and a rest. The optimum (Heaven) is always found somewhere between the extremes of too much and too little (hell).
Pleasantness is the Rose found at the Heart of the Optimum. Just so.
Narrow is the Way and straight the path, and few there are that find it.
God = Life
Jesus = Humane Humanity
Christ = at One with Life
Empty of ego (separateness) = Full of Life
Holy Spirit = Eternally actualizing Infinite potential
We are here to experience completion of Joy in form as conscious creative co-equal collaborators with the all-inclusive One.
Soul: Integrated Psyche
Mind = Inspiration
Heart = Aspiration
Will = Volition
Integration = Integrity = Soul
When the Heart aspires, the Mind inquires and the Will conspires (combines).
Dream it, feel it, do it.
God is Love, God is Light, God is Mercy and infinite Grace
But
He wants Love in return. As such he has given us free will to choose, he has not shown us his full Glory be use he wants you to choose him out of Love and not fear
If you had no choice, then it’s not Love.
But all choices have consequences, now and in eternity. You choose to Love God or you choose to only live for and love yourself… Empty and meaningless
God created the World to give you a real choice to make, so that if you choose him over the World it is sincere
Hell is simply choosing the self over God. Choosing the now, instead of Salvation and Life everlasting.
Hell is obviously real. Anyone with eyes can see what a life devoid of Love or light is…. Why would anyone allow themselves to be fooled into thinking that if such pain and suffering can and does exist here in the flesh, that it cannot exist in Spirit too…?
Choose to have Faith in, to be with, and to truly love the Lord and your Spirit is set free from pain and suffering… or don’t and it won’t.
It’s your Choice, he obviously wants your Love, is willing to forgive and accept you if you are sincere.
Love is hard, it takes sacrifice, it’s not selfish.
You can talk all you want about “scholarly” debates or whatever… it’s not that difficult to understand if you stop and think
Peace be with you all.
Hell could be a coping mechanism for belivers against to sinners, they think they get vengeance with hell at least
Yes!
I had a near death experience on a spaceship.
Do tell.
Jesus time they burned criminals with trash, lake of fire, doing bad things can make hell on earth
Wait a minute here. There is a true Hell. It's on Earth and it is during your precious time being wasted by a religious fanatics talking their heads off about their religion!
I'm trying to watch all these. However, i'm curious why you haven't covered buddha or all of the multiple hindu gods. Why go so hard on the jews Christians and Muslims?
Because it's what his fans want. The religions that are the biggest threats to peace, freedom and democratic principles.
Consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution.
I wasn't following him on his comments about pornographic art related to Hell. I would love to understand this better...😂 I feel I need to research what he was talking about. I have spent much of my life... let's call it "researching pornography." 😂 Apparently I missed a few websites 😂
It's used often to describe something people are obsessed with and watch,look at ect even if it's not related at all with sex. Like war porn, car porn, water porn ect. It's a very modern term for things because I never heard the word porn used outside of sexual context until the last ten years or so. .
@@spartacusthebringerofrain3007 OK. I get it. Thanks.
@@spartacusthebringerofrain3007my favorite is bookshelf porn 😂
I think the notion of hell they tried to sell is doubly heinous, once you realize what you experience when you gain enlightenment.
People describe it as a sun, a star, a flame, a fire, a divine spark that you experience.
Notice that it is basically the same as those who had near death experiences.
I think they tried to make people believe that that too was the entrance to hell. Why? Because that state holds a tremendous power. Some hindu texts tell that it burns away karma. It's like a bath. You return cleaner.
Similarly christians will say that Christ 'died' for their sins. This dying is only dying in this world, he went to this blissful state, call it brahman and came back without sins.
You'll return with a brandnew perspective. BUT what will you think when you return when previously people told you it was hell?
Maybe their goal was to hold even more power over you.
But when you leave that state and you have to make up concepts for it yourself, most of the time people will see it as blissful.
I highly recommend NOT doing a myth of sin or myth of evil topic.
so much about Hell never made any sense
It sounds like the alleged devil doesn't want to take over the whole universe.
I like the idea of reincarnation.
It would be the ultimate form of hell - you have to return and try again - here on Earth.
Hell does exist. Your living on it. 😈
It's "you're". Learn english.
@@Gretel8Hansel you're right. I stand corrected by AI 🤣