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The bible is not really about morality or 'Good and Evil' how we understand it. It is just a manual to practice detachement. Only through detachment you will be able to 'see the Light'. (and real concentration of course!) The 'Light' has been called God, Hell, whatever... all these 'definitions' were put on it AFTER these searchers came back and could THINK about it. DURING their 'stay' in the Light there is no Good, there is no Evil, there are no thoughts or feelings, there are no angels or demons,... there is only Light. This is the lesson: "YOU are there to see it. Even though you saw 'yourself' be 'destroyed' moments ago." When you 'return' to the world, YOU see 'yourself' be created again. That is the lesson. You are not what you think you are. YOU are free from good and evil, guilt and shame,... those are the illusions put unto you.
@@adrianaslund8605 "inescapable eternal punishment" --- God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. That is inescapable and eternal. Are you suggesting an alternative to existence in and of itself by which you could exist? "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17) "those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41) "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69) "behold, he was no more; Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found” (Psalm 27) "the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112)
@@adrianaslund8605 "inescapable eternal" --- God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. That is inescapable and eternal. There is no alternative. "in him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17) "let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69) "they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41) "the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112) "they will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8) "this state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called hell... The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
@@adrianaslund8605 "inescapable eternal" --- God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. That is inescapable and eternal. There is no alternative. "in him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17) "let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69) "they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41) "the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112) "they will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8) "this state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called hell... The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
Three nuns died in a car crash and went up to the pearly gates But Peter said “you’ve got to answer a question before I can let you in” So he asked the first nun “ what was the first woman’s name?” “ Eve” “Ok you can go in” and asked the second nun “where did Adam and Eve live?” “Eden” “ very good in terms you go” Then he Asked the third nun “ what did Eve say when she saw Adam for the first time?” And the nun thought for awhile and said “ gee that’s a hard one” “ very good” said Peter “ in you go”
I still think my favorite joke about was on South Park. "Hey wait, I was a devoted Catholic all my life. Why am I in hell?" "Yeah, you chose wrong." "Then what about me? I was a protestant." "Yeah, you also chose wrong." "Then who the hell was right?" "That would be the Mormons. Yes, that's right. The Mormons. The Mormons got it right."
@@mai7201x Honestly South Park just had two of the best jokes about hell I have seen The silver medal being comparing Limbo to a plane stuck on a runaway, and then when it finally takes off, it immediately lands at the gates of Hell, which is a Towing Gate.
Hell was a huge driving factor in me becoming a hyper-conservative Roman Catholic. I think it partially led to my divorce. I was so afraid of hell and doing the wrong thing I was essentially immobilized. I was convinced the RCC was mostly corrupt and I'd indulge in these online content creators telling us the masses offered weren't valid and I needed to do specific prayers at home and hope God didn't damn me to hell if I did them wrong. Not to mention all of the fear around not doing confession correctly, forgetting or withholding a sin on accident/purpose and therefore going to hell. Hell permeates almost 100% of Christian doctrines today. There's almost no love, no peace, no community and no compassion. It's scary. I'm glad I've left it behind. I was massively overweight, depressed, afraid of death.
"hyper-conservative Roman Catholic" --- That is a contradiction, of course. “one who despairs despises My mercy, making his sin to be greater than mercy and goodness… See, therefore, that this sin alone leads him to hell… for at death when the worm of conscience sleeps no longer, but is gnawing at you, while the devils shout and render to you the reward which they are accustomed to give their servants, that is to say, confusion and condemnation, it is because they wish to bring you to despair” (St. Catherine of Siena “Dialogue: 31. Of the death of sinners” c.1370 AD) "Jesus spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and never lose heart" (Luke 18) "we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe" (1 Timothy 4) "who against all hope, believed in hope" (Romans 4) “we are saved by hope” (Romans 8) "In hope, the Church prays for all men to be saved" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1821) Peace be with you.
I’m so thankful for channels like this. When you see the magician behind the curtain are men who wrote tall fake ass tales, you can free yourself mentally of all fear/manipulation that Christian mythology brings, also all harmful religions for that matter. Live your life free of fake mental stories, be free to be yourself.
Having the Pentecostal nanny & constantly being told as a child that I was destined to be punished for eternity if I didn't submit to some imaginary sky-daddy was and is,at the very least, child abuse...
The Bible speaks of hell as a real / actual place of final torment for those who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You might want to read every word before you make silly comments
@@MrFireman164 .... This goes a bit more deeper....in the beginning.... There was nothing and only one God was roaming around aimlessly..... He then created things.... Among these, he also created evil..... Since evil existed before humans (as per the shit story). This means God created evil!
@@schnellster1 I know so many people who are terrified of hell, i was told at 13 years old that I would go to hell If I wasn’t saved… save from whom ? The devil? Nope from god.
@@MrFireman164 😂😂😂...the era where the Soviets stoked feminism as a propaganda...in comparision to all such things...this God and hell narration is so top notch that ...even logically inclined minds in this scientifically advanced world are strangely dumbed down to accept this narrative...hats of to the guy who did this mumbo jumbo!
I'm so glad that I dissected the myths about hell when I was breaking down the scriptures. Once I dispelled the notion, I realized that the Bible was full of mess. Very messy. I started to see the big lie. The rest is history, and I love my life the more
It's really telling how apologists arguments typically come down to them not wanting to go to hell more(in some cases I've seen at least) than wanting to go to heaven.
A friend of mine was badly burn't by a pot of boiling oil that fell on her as a child. What she recounts is the smell and burning of her face and back and chest. This is unimaginable. No way a god that loves his children could send one there. The mind can be a scary place when imagination runs wild. Doc Macdonald is very knowledgable and knows his mythology like mad. Thanks MV.
@@buzzwordy9951Try to understand that demons are outside the time illusion. A burn is an illusion. They are being playful. A burn is heavy depending on time. But it's a hack to impose an insurance of deep through from a higher dimension. Don't get it? Then stay shortform. Both ways work but I promise you, you will see it
@@buzzwordy9951Sorry, i was sleepy when I wrote it. A concept of the matrix is physical trauma is induced by demonic entities as reality is in the clutches of evil beings. I am of the mind that we are in a sub reality to a higher civilization which has an evil side casting this illusion of life, which is very painful and real enough. But there are other more real places out there. I am sorry about the story of this child. It's just when I step back far enough, I can see a lot at work and the day that family will wake up, on the other side, and where this nightmare with those scars, will have faded.
Screw your empy threats of hell empty promises of heaven. There is no god and all religions are no more than sick iron age tales. Also there is no magic so how can practitioners be sent to hell - another of many mistakes in the bible.
A retired Federal District Court Judge once told me that "As far as hell goes, a man can stand anywhere on Earth and throw a stone any notable distance in any direction, and find himself in a thousand unique hells on his way to retrieve it."
I would hope that such a person would say, “Given that the first principle of justice when sentencing any guilty party is that the punishment must fit the crime, the idea of anyone enduring cruel, sadistic, and eternal torments as recompense for temporal offenses is without question the most outrageous moral perversion ever perpetrated on the masses.
@@BrianForTheWin That seems like exactly what he would have said when applying to law school, and it's as perfectly _textbook_ as it is theo-rhetorically sound. On the actual topic of his statements regarding "A Thousand Hells...", however, this was spoken at the end of his life after decades of practice. Imagine being the person who knows the difference between pledging and ordaining knowledge on such a complex topic. (Unless your heart sinks, you don't get it.) Our conversation at the time began under a more esoteric context, and it's not actually "his" unique conclusion. He was paraphrasing a Buddhist parable that also serves as testament to the inherent suffering that results from fearing eternal damnation for temporal or circumstantial offences.
One More Paraphrasing of His Brilliance: _"The world is always warning about the ongoing war between "Good" and "Evil", but know also that a victory for either will be nothing more or less than a murder/suicide for both"_ . (Isaiah 45:7)
@@BrianForTheWin …. You have the opportunity to accept eternal life as a GIFT, for free no matter what you did. This is what God offers you.. YOUR CHOICE!!
@@DA-yd2ny I'm not convinced any god(s) exist. I am convinced the god of the bible doesn't exist tho. But I'll take that "free" eternal life as long as I can renege anytime I see fit. Eternity might get boring or depressing.
I was glad to see Dr. MacDonald mention that these Greek myths were pre scientific stories invented by philosophers to make sense of the natural world and of the superstitions of the day and age. After the Greeks started developing the scientific method, things changed but by then, the myth of a suffering afterlife in the underworld was like the proverbial cat out of the bag.
It is difficult to determine how Greek myths functioned in its earlier periods because we have few records. What we have a lot of records of are philosophers challenging Greek myths in various ways. But even Thales who is often considered „the first scientist“ put forth the idea that „the Gods live in material“ and give it its properties. Such as Magnetic stones, or various metals like Mercury etc. Thales explanation is written by Aristotle and is where we get the word Animism from „de Anima“ the title of the book. But it is a mistake to think that these philosopher „scientists“ were somehow atheistic, not in the least. They developed more and more abstract notions of God, or the forces ar play in the universe. Aristotle for example wrote extensively about daimons. But there appears to have been similar trends in Judaism, for example Isaiah had a very abstract transcendent notion of God, and in that narrative he ridicules idol worshippers in a similar way that the Greek philosophers did. Heraclitus proposal an invisible central order or truth of the universe, the Logos. What happens in Christianity, is Jesus is then designated as the full embodiment of the Logos, and is the Logos. But early Christians also believed Socrates and Heraclitus also spoke the Logos but were not the embodiment of the full Logos. The Greek philosophies would seem like a religion to modern people, not science, a very abstract religion, but that is why a strand of it naturally merged and evolved into Christianity and becomes very idolatrous within a few hundred years.
My trauma about hell become when I read Kathrine k. Bacster's book. I was a teenager when I read this. Even after I become atheist, the fear of hell lingered. Even though it's dissapating eventually
I watched a guy who wrote the book "Rethinking Hell" on the Preacher Boys Podcast and it changed everything for me. I became free that day....I am so grateful that there's no such place, and that I don't ever have to live in fear anymore. I just wish my parents would be willing to watch podcasts like this and become free as well.
In my days as a Baptist Fundamentalist preacher hell never really worried me. The torment that I endured was instead a litteral hell on earth based on a belief that Jesus was monitoring my thoughts 24/7. At least in Orwells novel no one really knew if the telescreen was monitoring you or not. But with jesus he was in your head, never sleeping and always reading your mind. Not only did Jesus read your mind, but he punished you for your impure thoughts. "For who he loves he corrects". So if something bad happened to me I always attributed it to something I either did wrong, or thought wrong. For example, the flat tire I got was probably due to checking out the womans ass in front of me at the gas station. This was a source of constant fear. Even sleep provided no protection since Jesus was always aware, waiting with his correcting rod. In fact, this cognitive distortion was the final shackles thrown off of my mind from my former faith. It was true freedom. Unfortunately it took years of internal struggles to finally break free from that loop that Christianity fettered me into. I had to use my own training in CBT to finally break it. I was alone and too embarrassed to explain what I was fighting. But when I finally stood in my kitchen and said out loud that there is no one reading my mind and that my thoughts have no bearing on events I cannot or could not control, and to prove my point I cursed the name of Jesus and went on about my day. For years Christianity was my personal Hell.
In a comment above, I describe how I went through a very traumatic struggle to leave Christianity in the early 1980's. What drove me into this very traumatic struggle is because of how Christians say you have free will. But, then with such insane, blatant hypocrisy, Christians say you either have to serve their angry god or serve satan and then be tortured forever in a fiery burning hell, with no second chance to be "saved" after death or taking the 666 mark of the beast! As if that is not bad enough, Christians also say if you do not worship their angry god, then you have to worship someone or something else as your "gods". It is absolutely impossible to get Christians to see and understand these insane, crazy contradictions! Even though I have been a member of the Freedom from Religion Foundation since 1983, and the leader of the Freedom from Religion Foundation, Dan Barker is a former preacher who is today one of the most famous atheists today, I still often have these very traumatic feelings of the Christian hell being real and how the angry Christian god is going to judge me and eternally punish me, and because of how I was not born into a Christian family, this angry Christian god is going blame me and hold me responsible for I could not convert my family and friends to what was my "born again" Christian fundamentalist insanity, during the years of when I was a Christian! These traumatic feelings often still come down upon me, especially when I read about people who claim to have visited the Christian hell in near-death experiences! It often angers me how Amnesty International and the American Civil Liberties Union are not doing anything about eternal torture in a fiery burning hell, and also how according to the Christian fundamentalists, we have to either serve their angry god or serve satan, and you have to worship! If I sound like a crazy crackpot, then I have to admit being an ex-Christian is just as much a hard struggle as being a recovered alcoholic! Throw the golden calf in the garbage can, because I don't want to worship any 'gods"! Since you are a former Baptist Fundamentalist preacher, I admit I sent you this reply for someone for whom I can relate to about religious trauma.
@kthalma999 "that still small voice" I remember hearing that phrase from the pulpit time and time again and I remember using it from the pulpit time and time again. 😆 It is interesting how much of the Christian belief system is just passed on catch phrases like that.
Well, you're correct. Heaven and hell are present-moment states of consciousness. Your story is a great example of that. They arise in your consciousness through your choices.
Hell can't be eternal punishment for sins. By the time we're in our 30s we can barely remember what we did when we were toddlers. Imagine how it will be trying to remember what one did wrong 3,000 years ago. After that much time in Hell, a person would change so much that they would essentially no longer be the person who was sent to Hell in the first place.
This is exactly the kind for thinking I do. I am a Good Witch who believes in a creator and not just because of being a Christian in the past. But I don't believe in a creator who is willing to let his children suffer for all eternity because that's like giving his children a toy which the world is our toy in this sense then rips it away from us then goes over board and sends us to torture. Religious people always think me horrible for thinking this way and even if I can't always answer them properly I'm honestly glad now not to because frankly a lot of them only want to hear one word and that's Jesus is the way even though most of them don't even follow his teachings either. I have many atheist in my group of friends and family but it doesn't scare me any longer where they are going because they are good people and that to me is enough. Death is the great impossible we all will reach one day but no matter where it takes me next or doesn't I am so grateful to live this life. It's so hard right now too yet I can still say I'd still never give this life up for anything.
What are your thoughts about the after life and evil people now? Not debating just asking. I don't have an answer. It's problematic. If everything presumably happens within Gods will then what could God do with the evil despots. Secondly, despots vs those who lived decent in terms of reward No after life solves it of course but I think it exists. Nothing means there's no point to even trying. I've heard that countered with it matters in terms of what we leave. That has a wide margin of error though person by person. And ghosts do exist so that's another detail. @@leafe-lu3jd
Good idea to start a conversation about a heavy topic like this with a few good jokes! I recognised many elements of this discussion from Bart Ehrman's book "Heaven and Hell". I'm not a christian anymore since almost 1,5 years now and I rationally do not believe in the existence of hell, but it's so hard to get rid of the fear and nasty feelings about hell despite of that! The idea of a real hell has rooted for 31 years of my life. It's good to hear messages like this now and then.
@@acsberean4092 Oh my goodness, the most horrible cliché judgment that there is. You sound like you're God himself, who was totally involved in my painful process over the past years. Apparently you know it all. But I will tell you one thing: If I was never a truly born-again Christian, then I think nobody can be a Christian at all, because Jesus was my whole life.
@@ReligieVrij Actually, Jesus is the one who said it. You were maybe a believer, just like the demons in hell and Judas (James 2:19), but not a receiver. You called yourself a Christian, but you were not Born-Again, for if you were, you would have continued as one. You turned your back on the Creator of all things, who is Love, and gave Himself as a ransom and the final sacrifice for your sin. (Matt 20:28; 1 John 2:19,4:10) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I NEVER knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matt 7:21-23) It is clear that your heart has become hardened, your ears cannot hear, and you have closed your eyes-so your eyes cannot see, your ears cannot hear, your heart cannot understand, and you cannot turn to Jesus and let Him heal you (Matt 14:15). There is a way back through repentance because "if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1).
@@acsberean4092 I used the exact same bible verses and kind of reasoning to other people, so I can’t blame you. I forgive you and I don’t need the love of Jesus for that. That said, know that there are debates about this topic once saved always saved. Your view is just one view. Every camp has their bible verses to point to.
@@ReligieVrij When a person becomes Born-Again, their spirit, mind, and Body become the Temple of God, the Holy of Holies. Jesus promised to NEVER leave or forsake them. That means if they could somehow walk away from Jesus after becoming Born-Again, He would remain with them for all eternity.
Derrick, once again you drag the illogical shades of humanity's past kicking and screaming into the light of calm and rational reason. However, after spending Christmas with the extended family, I can tell you with certainty that hell does exist, and my drunk aunt is throwing up in the ninth ring's lavatory. Hope you had a great new year... Looking forward to the 2024 season of Mythvision!
I'm grateful that I took the time to examine and unravel the misconceptions surrounding the concept of hell while delving into the scriptures. Once I cleared away those misunderstandings, I began to perceive the intricate and nuanced narratives within the Bible. It was a transformative moment, as I recognized the complexity behind the beliefs I held. The journey since then has been a remarkable one, and I've come to cherish my life even more." 📖🙏🌟
It never made sense to me that there was a devil that was going to torture all the people that went to hell. It would seem to me that would be against Satan's own best interest. Having more members in his gang against a god who condemned them would make his war against God stronger.
Nobody in the atheist community has mentioned Mary K. Baxter. I was so happy to know someone else who's an atheist heard her awful story because it's what sent me on a downward spiral with my mental health back in 2015.
It really messed me up as a teen, like Derek said the attention to detail and creativity in the torture (it’s probably pretty ridiculous and poorly written if I read it as an adult not attached to Christian indoctrination) in that garbage book literally gave me nightmares, I’m sure her book was a best seller at the time
Don’t be deceived by the adversity. The scriptures don’t teach us hell is torture for all time. We fear the Lord not bc of hell but bc of his Goodness. His awesomeness
I’m almost tempted to say that a person should be jailed for writing such filth. It’s so unjust for a person to have that kind of power with words - where they are destroying peoples minds with fear and nightmares.
I converted to being a "born again" Christian fundamentalist at the age of 19 in the fall of 1975, or what were often "Jesus freaks" back then. Then in the early 1980's, I went through a very traumatic struggle to leave Christianity and eventually join the Freedom from Religion Foundation. However, I still have these very traumatic feelings the Christian hell may very well be real, especially since I often read about people who claim to have visited the Christian hell in near-death experiences. If there really is an eternal burning hell, even for good people who are not the right kind of Christians, with no second chance to be saved from this burning hell after death or taking the 666 mark of the beast, then this is a horrible abuse of human rights, as a violation of the 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, that clearly prohibits cruel and unusual punishment! So why aren't Amnesty International and the American Civil Liberties taking serious political human rights action and doing something about this eternal abuse of human rights? It really angers me how human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and civil rights organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union, are not doing anything about this eternal damnation in a fiery burning hell!
God is love brother. The more you remind yourself of this the easier it is to dismiss and dispel all notions of eternal conscious torment for his children. Peace.
The notion of an eternal torture in Hell is immoral, illogical and infantile. As it's illogical, it is easily disproven (unless one believes in a Satanic god).
What does a belief in hell have to do with civil liberties? Everyone is allowed to believe what they want to believe in a free society. I don't believe in hell but if I were to tell someone else that they can't believe in hell I'd be infringing on their civil liberties. The job of civil liberties organizations is to protect people from government abuse, not tell them what to think.
The concept of hell, a place of ETERNAL punishment is the most cruel and unjust idea. A punishment is meant to teach a lesson so that the 'sinner' doesn't repeat his 'sin'. What crime must a person do to merit ETERNAL DAMNATION? the Catholic church regards not going to church on Sunday a mortal sin! meaning that if you don't go to mass on Sunday may land you in hell FOR ETERNITY!
Yep. If you're not at approved locations at approved times, & stay there for an hour once a week the Sky Wizzard gets so angry he tortures you in a lake of fire FOREVER!! 😂 I think God needs a girlfriend. He's got way too much time on his hands. And, he needs to work on his forgiveness issues. Imagine caring that much about what other's do & think. 😂
Part of the problem with what you have just written, is you apparently believe that eternity has to do with time. You have conflated eternity with everlasting, as have many, but the words have too different meanings and this was understood by early Christians. Eternity has nothing to do with time, as it is transcendent of time. When the Greeks used the word eternity, (Aeon) they meant “the fullness of time.” That is to say, Eternity is the past, present and future all being experienced at once. And as Joseph Campbell explained: „Eternity isn't some later time. Eternity isn't even a long time. Eternity has nothing to do with time. Eternity is that dimension of here and now that all thinking in temporal terms cuts off. The experience of eternity right here and now, in all things, whether thought of as good or as evil, is the function of life.“ But to get the point across as far as early Christians, St. Augustine explained, something is eternal if it exists in a timeless, unchanging state. So eternal truths are unchanging and are not in, or influenced by, time. This is a strand of Platonist thought in Christianity. The ideal is not the real. The ideal is transcendent of the real, and yet is the kernel of which the real is derived from. So with this change of definition is there „eternal damnation“. I would say allegorically yes. I am writing this in a hotel room in Hamburg. A severely depressed friend was suppose to arrive. He never showed up and talked to him over the phone for 3 hours. He said he had a panic attack on the train platform, because he was afraid that he would arrive in Hamburg and when he gets here I would reject him and he would loose our friendship and he was afraid of being abandoned and facing rejection one more time. But in this neurosis he is going through he himself is abandoning his friendships, and he is abandoning himself, and rejecting himself. He is traveling through hell, repeating the same pattern. And the hell feels eternal, where the past, the present and future are conflated and conceived of in a very negative way. But what is the source and origin of this? In scientific terms perhaps his amygdala is irritated so he repeats a trauma, but this material reductionist view tells us next to nothing of the experience. We talked on issues and he felt a little better. But the point is we often experience various hells and Heavens while we are alive. Did Dante understand this. Of course he did. IMO there is some evidence that in the modern period there has been an increase religious literalism not a decrease. Part of the issue are reactionary groups, but part of the issue is the fact that fewer people understand how allegory and poetry functions.
@matthewkopp2391 We all know what the word eternity means. And it's not what you just said. 😆 The Bible has been translated hundreds of times. The word eternity keeps being selected because that is precisely what the ancient authors meant to convey. Eternal Hell was used to scare people into compliance & it worked. You're in a cult Matt. They have terrified you into believing in a Sky Wizzard. You have been brainwashed into believing in silly ancient myths.
"hell is preposterous"--- God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. That is inescapable and eternal. There is no alternative. "in him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17)
"let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69)
"they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41)
"the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112) "they will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8) "this state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called hell... The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
The concept of a "judgement" goes back to ancient Egypt during the Middle Kingdom era (i.e. 2055 BCE to 1650 BCE). It also appears later in the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism, which seems to be where Christianity picked it up from, and then later Islam (although Islam may have been influenced directly by Zoroastrianism via the Sassanid Empire in the 7th century CE). The Jews lived under Persian rule between 539 BCE to 330 BCE, where they encountered Zoroastrianism and its ideas. The Jews then lived under the Greeks (due to the empire of Alexander the Great) from 330 BCE up until 63 BCE when Judea was conquered by the Romans. When the Jews were living under Greek rule, this is when Hellenistic Judaism developed and in Alexandria, Egypt (also under the rule of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty) the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek (which is where we get mistranslations like the Hebrew word "alma", meaning "young woman", being translated into the Greek word for "virgin", which is the reason for the myth of the virgin birth of Jesus). The Jews picked up on the Greek underworld god Hades, which they then passed onto Christianity as "the Devil". The word Satan originally meant adversary in Hebrew and first appeared in the Old Testament book of Job (which was written during the Jews' captivity in Neo-Babylon between 586 BCE to 539 BCE, when they were liberated by Cyrus of Persia, who defeated the Neo-Babylonians). The book of Job was a Hebrew/Jewish version of a Babylonian myth called Ludlul bel nemeqi aka "Babylonian Job", which is about a nobleman named Shubshi-meshre-Shakkan and the supreme Babylonian god Marduk. The story of Job is also similar to the ancient Egyptian Middle Kingdom era story called the Tale of Sinuhe, which is about a palace worker named Sinuhe, who goes through trials and remains loyal to the king, just as Job goes through the trials he is put through by God and Satan but he still has faith in God. The Tale of Sinuhe is also similar to the Old Testament story of Joseph, which in turn is similar to the story of Jesus. The name "Lucifer" is a Latin name and was originally used for a Roman god of the morning star, and part of a trinity or triad with two other deities: Luna, the Roman moon goddess (from where we get the word "lunar"), and Vesper, the Roman god of the evening star. This trinity referred to the planet Venus in its two forms as the morning and evening stars, as well as the moon. The planet Venus is the second brightest celestial object in the night sky after the moon. The Greek underworld god Hades had a weapon called a bident (similar to the sea god Poseidon's trident), which eventually became the Devil's pitchfork. A pitchfork is a tool used by farmers, and Hades, being the god of the underworld, was closely associated with the earth and farming. The depiction of the Devil as a goat figure is borrowed from the Greek god Pan, who is depicted as half-goat/half-man. The word "Devil" is etymologically related to the word "daeva", who were ogres in Persian mythology, and also the enemies of the good Peri beings. The Daevas tried to lock the Peris in iron cages, and their enmity was kind of similar to that of Devils vs Angels. The word "demon" comes from the Greek word "daimon", which refers to a spirit in Greek mythology, and the word "angel" comes from the Greek word "angelos", meaning "messenger". In Greek mythology, Hermes was the messenger god and Iris was the messenger goddess.
In 2023 it boggles my mind that there are still humans with all the education available and the knowledge easily acquired and the advances attained, who still are duped by the abject myths of religions... just sad!
@@mai7201x "So many people want to live on forever"... and in the name of that wishful thinking they carry out all sorts of vile actions here and now on OTHERS... humanity is really a turpitude.
I read the exact same book by Baxter as a teenager. I had nightmares, went around thinking about what I had read, I was scared to death. I even brought the book to school so my friends could avoid hell too. I wish there were some kind of punishment for influencing people with horror stories like these.
Your first mistake was in believing any book written by a person who dreamed the contents. Not unlike another better-known volume where prophets made their proclamations after hearing inner voices, or experiencing visions and those pesky dreams... a book that has dominated untold millions since it was first cobbled together.
@@gregoryboyd7176 Well, being 13 years old with no critical thinking skills because of growing up in a pentecostal home, it's not that easy. I also truly believed in hell even before I read the book. It just confirmed what I thought to be true, and expanded on it.
The frightening thing is that there are actually people willing to worship an entity who can come up with that sadistic punishment and to admire and call it the epitome of goodness.
This is great. I never believed I was going to hell because I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness, and was one for 60 years. They had a strong hold on me because I was born in. we were taught that if Jehovah doesn’t approve of us, we would die at Armageddon with no chance of a resurrection and conscious of nothing. Basically no different than a rock. 😢
No birthday parties and no birthday presents to celebrate your birthday and no December Holiday Season celebrations and Holiday Season presents? As an adult, do you now feel you were robbed of your childhood?
No birthday parties and no birthday presents, no December Holiday Season celebrations and no Holiday Season presents? As an adult today, do you feel you were robbed of your childhood?@@cygnustsp
@@rosskardon7195 Yes. Sitting in the school library during parties felt like a punishment. No holidays when all of the other family members (cousins, aunts, uncles) invited us to celebrate with them and we had to decline. That’s hard on a child. It’s now nice to have the freedom to do what I please.
I was never threatened with Hell or told I would be rewarded with heaven. When I was in High School an Evangelical Christian asked me if I was going to Heaven or Hell. I didn't know what to say because no one had ever mentioned Heaven or Hell. I’m Jewish no rabbi or religious instructor had nothing to say about either.
There's a simple question that disproves Hell: Can your god create someone who is _more loving, more forgiving, more logical, more moral, more mature, more sensible, more pragmatic, more imaginative, more merciful, more just, more empathetic, more compassionate_ than itself? Being brought up brainwashed into "thinking" in an infantile way, the religious have the childish urge to apply _all_ the superlatives to their deity, regardless of the logical problems such idiocy throws up, so they have to reply "no". Therefore, in order to prove the notion of an eternity in Hell to be false, all you have to do is find one person, _just one,_ who is too compassionate, too merciful, too forgiving, to send _anyone_ to such an awful fate. If THEY are too merciful and caring, then their god would HAVE to also be. It's simple Logic, but Logic and Facts are something the religious brain rejects, so they tend to either shut up, or come up with all kinds or ridiculous mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to reconcile a simple argument with their dangerous, vile bollocks.
Did you ever play the PS3 game? I thought it was really cool. It even has the full poem with cool music and maybe it was narrated but i could be misremembering that
The tone in this episode is so interesting. It starts out intense, with Derek's emotional account of how his beliefs harmed him. Then it segues into jokes. After that, we're treated to just some really chill storytelling that's relaxing to listen to, despite the subject matter. I also learned a lot!
Derek, up until I was in my early-20s (I'm early 70s now) I had similar fears to those you announced. Partly this was because I was "agnostic" but realised I was atheist. What brought me out of it was the realisation that both heaven and hell are tortures. Heaven because existing in a "perfected" human form for an infinite amount of time is a boredom of hellish proportions as you will be forced to repeat every experience infinitely. Then I started considering those with physical and mental debilities are they condemned? What if you go to heaven in your current state? Imagine the torture experienced by those with dementia. At this point I realised that the concept of an afterlife is irrational and dogmatic fantasy. Later on I found out that the visions and out of body experiences from which people describe the afterlife can be emulated with brain stimulation or deprivation of blood/oxygen to the brain or simple chemical effects from substances such as ketamine.
Back in 1984, I briefly lived with my late uncle, who had become a born-again Christian being Jewish all his life. He influenced his beliefs on me. I remember having a dream in his apartment, which coincidentally was his as a child growing up he took over the apartment when his mom, my grandmother, died. Anyway, I had this dream I was in Hell, and I remember that Moses, not Jesus, saved me. I remember hearing the Stryper song Loving you was similar to my dream. Jews don't believe in an ever lasting hell. You might go somewhere but it is temporary. I suggest Derek have a conversation with Rabbi Tovia Singer about this. I don't know if you guys talk anymore or what happened to the relationship you 2 had.
I don’t think people understand the mental damage that book by Mary Baxter did to a young person like myself who believed in Christianity, to this day I still remember scenes from that garbage book.
When my children were very young and asked do l believe in the devil, l told them the smartest people don't and dumbest people believe in the devil, they came back from catholic school and stated that they were atheists, that didn't go so moderately
Back in the day the local rubbish dump (sometimes dexcribed as a "pit" in the Bible) was constantly burning rubbish to keep it from overflowing. They kept the fire going night and day to get rid of the rubbish; to prevent it from building up. "Hell" is God's rubbish dump, a very unpleasant place, where "the fire is not quenched".
There are a 100X more vivid descriptions of hell, than there are of heaven. And the descriptions of heaven are confined to those things of value, as seen on earth.
Polybius, the ancient historian, says: "Since the multitude is ever fickle, full of lawless desires, irrational passions and violence, there is no other way to keep them in order but by the fear and terror of the invisible world; on which account our ancestors seem to me to have acted judiciously, when they contrived to bring into the popular belief these notions of ... the infernal regions."
Plenty of things can account for "visions", whether that be visions of Hell, Heaven, or other religious realms: Brain damage to the visual regions of the brain; schizophrenia; temporal lobe epilepsy; hallucinogenic drugs and plants; exposure to chemical gases; location (i.e. at high altitude where the air is thinner, resulting in oxygen deprivation to the brain, which can cause hallucinations i.e. "near-death experiences"); food and water deprivation, which the body compensates by hallucinating food and water i.e. desert mirages of ponds of water are a famous example.
We are the creator and God of our own destiny... everything starts with a thought... we meet our loved ones on the other side and can make our wishes come true with thought
You can see a state of hell here in a human life now, you don't have to wait for after life. Too much emphasis on that by some has not been beneficial .Following spiritual principles after falling into a state of hell has brought refreshment and much better life. Thank you God.
I like the Swedenborgian concept of hell. Where its more of a state of mind. You go to a place tainted with the spiritual energies of Stalin and Hitler. Its not great. But no one's torturing you. Except perhaps other spirits of the dead.
They're all insane books to be followed by insane people, but don't subject children to those false horrors like they did with me and countless others for thousand of years.
Awesome, i was a Christian for 60 yrs- ( I'm 70 now) was in the ministry- & P & W bands, & i always thought that i would go to Hell, - because of " THOUGHTS", that would arise, from outward perceptions ( things i would see) , but didnt act on my thoughts, - but because i would have these thoughts ( per bible- they would be sinful) - so i am glad i no longer believe in hell.
As a Christian, I had nightmares about hell and demons on occasion. Now that I have learned the truth, those silly dreams are gone! Now I can have fun dreams about Dracula and Jason!😊
“Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father, but there is one who accuses you…” (John 5)
"for whereas wickedness is fearful, it is because it bears witness to its own self-condemnation: for a troubled conscience always forecasts grievous things... and they become to themselves more grievous than the darkness" (Wisdom 17)
During my NDE I was taken to the edge of the void where I burned for an eternity and watched the stars burn out. Others may describe that as hell but from my perspective it was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced
These NDE people were taken too. NDE - LINDA S.: "The wrathful, vengeful God, as taught by my religion, instilled in me a deep fear of God, death, and the afterlife. The NDE transformed me, showing that God is only a loving God, WHO DOES NOT JUDGE AND PUNISH. THERE IS NO HELL or evil. I knew I was in the arms of a being who cherished me with PERFECT LOVE and carried me from the dark void into a new reality. There was no place that God did not exist and I was within God. I am an inseparable part of the light. THE TRUTH OF WHO I AM, INDEED, WHO WE ALL ARE, IS PERFECT LOVE as a creation of God. I had spent a lifetime of fear of judgment and now, standing with God, I HAD BEEN KNOWN COMPLETELY AND FOUND FAULTLESS. I KNEW GOD REGARDED ME AS PERFECT. Finally it all made sense. God could only love me because God is only love, nothing other than love. All is as it is supposed to be. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS OUR TRUE NATURE." Another Christian...and notice, again.... NDE - ROBYN C.: "I KNOW THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT OR HELL. I just know whatever form God takes, he loves us and welcomes us. I felt an overwhelming sense of complete bliss and contentment. I could see the light ahead of me and felt drawn to it, but I was moving slowly and enjoying the wondrous sensations I felt. Since my experience, I have been certain there is a God, but this is different to what I had believed as a Christian." Again, no "hell" and no judgement.... NDE - JASON H.: "I now know that there is a life after death. I NOW KNOW THAT THERE IS NO HELL. In that overwhelming radiating loving light, I met a glowingly beautiful, very loving being. His loving presence completely surrounded me, and together we went through my life and all that I had experienced, IN A LOVING WAY, NOT ANY JUDGING WAY." Very consistent... NDE - JASON J.: "After my NDE, I walked right out of the catholic church. Everything I was taught and told was a complete lie. THERE IS NO HELL, THERE IS NO SIN, THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT ON YOU WHATSOEVER. You are loved unconditionally. For all those still in the dark, they will have negative reactions to this." Yet again, no "hell" and can't be separated.... NDE - GORDON S.: "THERE IS NO 'heaven' and no 'HELL'. I am just now accepting that part of my purpose for coming back is to help other people awaken to the simple truth: WE ARE LOVE, we are part of God, and WE CANNOT EVER BE SEPARATED FROM GOD. The knowing that we are all inter-connected makes it easy for me to accept people, just as they are." Again, no "hell" and no reward.... NDE - STEVE L.: "THERE IS NO heaven or HELL. THERE IS NO "REWARD" FOR A "GOOD LIFE". Our careers, mistakes, money, etc., mean nothing. I soon realized I did not have my body, and that I was surrounded by consciousness. EVERYTHING IS JUST TOTAL LOVE. There was consciousness that came to me in the form of people I recognized. We join the pure consciousness at the time of leaving our body, and we are all one." Notice, he clearly understood.... NDE - DOUG F.: "IT WAS CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE IS NO heaven or HELL. Every part of the universe was part of me, and every part of me was part of the universe. THERE WAS COMPLETE INCLUSION AND ACCEPTANCE. This was so far beyond any expectation. Another realization came to me. Everything is known, and there is nothing to learn. Life on earth is not a school, there is nothing to learn. LIFE ON EARTH IS JUST AN EXPERIENCE. NOTHING MORE. As I was guided back, first into the 4th dimension, I could feel the expanded awareness shutting down. THIS LIFE IS ABOUT EXPERIENCE THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE TRULY ARE."
@@ros6111 exactly! When the stars have burned out I was left alone and the void with my resistance. As soon as I released it, then I passed through the veil and perceived that the void was not dark but completely filled with the brightest light imaginable. The light of unconditional love permeated everything, was everything, all things that ever were or will be. I can still feel it
For those who don't believe in hell, they apparently don't pay attention to the realm they inhabit, or their definition of hell is different than mine.
In my reading, the original version of the Hellfire Theology comes from Persia (ca. 500 BCE) and possibly from earlier Assyria (ca. 800 BCE). In the Persian (Farsi, Zarathustra) culture, Hellfire was the proper punishment for the truly wicked -- but it would last only three days, maximum. Then perhaps a much longer purgatory period. I don't blame the Catholics for inventing Hellfire theology -- I feel sure that the Persians and Assyrians also used it to control *their* children 3,000 years ago.
The Catholics didn't invent the doctrine of hell, Jesus spoke of it himself! This is nothing more than another gospel to tickle the ears of those who have little faith which is exactly what the prophecy says
@@onejohn2.26. Judge jury executioner is here, g-d for nothing can be hidden from him, he knows everything you do before you do it, no lies can be hidden, everything manifest before him. The vatican never had me fooled once, you do not have be a rocket science to figure this all of this out.
"...[L]ike an area that is still burning inside a piece of wood under the ashes[,] ... [m]urder lies hidden inside these feelings[:] ... hostility, hatred, and revenge, which involve longing for someone's [untimely bodily] death. Hellfire is nothing else. This is why we say someone blazes with hatred or burns for revenge. These feelings are murders at the level of intent even if not in act. If fear of the law, retribution, or revenge were taken away, these feelings would burst into action, ..." ~ Vera Christiana Religio 309 (Rose Translation)
hell signifies an unpleasant state of mind. Heaven signifies a pleasasnt state of mind. Those who die in a state of hell could be reincarnated in a bad place, a lower world, while those who die in a state of heaven could be reincarnated in a pleasant place, a higher world.
I have noticed similarities between the Christian idea of Lucifer and the last and 7th king of Rome Lucius Superbus, meaning "Lucius the Proud". Just like how the Christian Lucifer is known for pride, arrogance, and hubris. Just as Lucifer was kicked out of heaven by God, Lucius Superbus was overthrown and kicked off the throne in a coup by Roman aristocrats who established the Roman Republic in 509 BCE. Lucifer is similar to Lucius Superbus, and Romulus the first king of Rome is similar to Jesus. Jesus was a demi-god, with his mortal mother Mary and father as the god Yahweh, whereas Romulus (and his twin brother Remus) were demi-gods, being the sons of the mortal Vestal Virgin Rhea Silvia and the war god Mars. And just as Jesus was the "king of the Jews", Romulus was the first king of Rome. Jesus had a passion and so did Romulus; Jesus ascended and Romulus ascended; and Jesus had 12 disciples just as Romulus saw 12 vultures. And the story of Saint Paul's encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus is similar to the Roman myth of Proculus Julius being visited by Romulus. It just seems to me that the whole story of Lucifer aka "the Devil" is borrowed from Roman history and mythology. Also, the myth of Hell, specifically hellfire, comes from the ancient mistaken belief in geocentrism i.e. that the earth is at the center of the universe and the sun revolves around the earth. According to geocentrism, when the sun sets below the horizon and goes into the underworld, it sets the underworld, or hell, on fire, hence "hellfire", then rises the next morning and starts around the earth again in a cycle. I think knowing this would heal a person's fear of hell, specifically the hellfire that tortures people, since we now know that geocentrism is incorrect.
You can keep doing these videos for the next 20 years and you still will never get over it. There will always be the question in the back of your mind. I say this because I'm in the same boat. Good luck with it.
"The Wages of Sin is Death but the Gift of God is Eternal Life in Jesus Christ." Thank God that no one. Not even the Devil will be tormented by God forever without End...Annihilation is the Fate of the Lost...And Derek is on his way...Turn to Christ Jesus and be saved...Everyone...
There is no hell except by our own creation. There are 7 spheres of existence on the other side. The lower the sphere, the closer to earth it is. The lowest sphere is a cold and dark place but you can progress if you ask for instruction. When we die we go to the sphere that best suits our last life on earth plane. If you were a vicious gangster or psychopath with no regard for your fellow man, you go to the darker spheres and suffer cold. You are always cold the opposite of what we are taught by Christian religious sects. The light and warmth of God is absent. Spirits in upper spheres can go and visit lower spheres but the spirits in lower spheres cannot go to upper spheres. It is from the lower spheres they may choose to reincarnate to learn lessons on how to avoid going to lower spheres.
Jesus Said More about Hell Than Anyone in the Bible...So i prefer to stay with Jesus opinion,more safe! ;) Therefore, give heed to Jesus’s clear command to fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Hear it as a great mercy. What a wonderful thing it is that Jesus warns us. He does not leave us ignorant of the wrath to come. He not only warns. He rescues. This is the best effect of fear: it wakens us to our need for help and points us to the all-sufficient Redeemer, Jesus. Let it have this effect on you. Let it lead you to Jesus who says to everyone who believes in him, “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom”
Hell is where god punishes people over and over and over with suffering, depression, fear, anxiety, wars, child rape and sacrifice and evety evil imaginable, but it is here on earth.
Heaven and Hell are states of being in a sense... Both are within us; our choices lead our experience on Earth to be either. Right now, we are sitting in Hell, that should be obvious to anyone by the current state of world affairs; but the good news is we're on the cusp of Heaven on Earth.
There isn't one aspect of Judaism or Christianity that wasn't stolen/absorbed from previous religions/cultic practices around them. Greek-Egyptian-Sumerian ancient practices were all cobbled together to form Judaism.
I remember being brought to church as young as 6 yoa and remarking to myself that I was in a room with crazy people. I never found any of it compelling although I did follow the advice of adults and try to develop a supposed relationship with our imaginary friend. It's interesting studied as ancient literature or maybe in anthropology but shouldn't be taken as seriously as some people insist it be.
The Bible is very clear that those who "leave" Christianity never knew Jesus, were never Born-Again, and never became the dwelling place of God, the new Holy of Holies.
All sufferers of cardiac death who had visions still had brain activity. No one has come back from brain death with visions. Hallucinations are not evidence of anything, unfortunately.
Bet she read Dante's Inferno, and then dreamed about it, and of course, Jesus took her for a tour. Because what else would a supposed "god", do? Please wake up = no hell....made up after he died. FYI, NO Hell in the Old Testament. Everyone went to Shiloh.
It’s the valley of Gehenna where children were sacrificed passed/into/through through the fire to Molock (Molk sacrifice) and then the Catholic Church took it and added some more fun so you could be controlled further
Concepts in Hebrew traditions and beliefs have been passed from generation to generation the arrogance of this man to say that some thing was not the belief without any proof just his desire to say so it’s ridiculous
The simple reality of the so called doctrine of eternal damnation is that it works on fear which prevents growth, spiritual maturity and peace of mind. As human beings, when threatened we go into survival mode. By its very nature, and of necessity, we become completely self-centered to help insure our survival which negates any idea of being loving and charitable. Even as we're doing "good deeds" our goal, really, is to serve ourselves, to escape the pain of terror. And, to put it bluntly, it reflects horribly upon God's character, turning God into the worst asshole imaginable.
Now I wonder what the philosophers really believed in their heart-of-hearts, if they knew all their myths were just instrumental constructs to communicate a world view?
I am an Orthodox Christian - so, a little pagan, like all the Orthodoxy around me. We bring souls out of hell with memorials and prayers, and we know that, in the end, hell remains empty. We have strange customs that are laughed at by "intellectual" people and today's mass media, but I am sure that behind every custom there is a mechanism for the survival of the community.
And "you know in the end hell remains empty." First off no one in hell is redeemable. Only those in purgatory. Secondly, the message says the sinner is redeemed only through repentance. Prayers and memorials influence a soul to repent? but petitions are made to Jesus or to his mother depending on belief. So that then goes to the lost soul to influence repentance?? Or shorten purgatory time? How can God shorten it if the soul hasn't figured it out.
What you mean is that you are mainstream christian. You vote a certain way but also claim liberty in Jesus to be a little pagan which allows you to fit in and have friends.
The other conundrum is the resurrection for judgement. If you're already in heaven or hell there's no need for judgement because you already have been. It's a matter of getting your body back. So if the soul was in heaven and gets called back to earth to receive its glorified body then it does what. Return to heaven with it? Or earth is the new heaven because the old was done away with? "Where O death is thy sting." And the poor soul in hell goes back into it with a body to weep and knash forever. I know you are intelligent.
Sadly not. You see, our spirit is drawn from our bodies by the suns light, or gods light if you will. Unfortunately in this era there's something else in the heavens that falsely gives off the suns light (the moon) and this is where most people end up and it is not heaven. @@notanemoprog
Plato was enlightened. In a sense, the Fire in his Cave was the 'Light' or 'Hell' or 'God'. He describes a real thing here, maybe the most real, since it was not created by mind. Angels, demons, the Greek underworld, all stories, ... is just invention of mind. Even when you see angels before you see the light, these angels are mind only. Not real. Not important. The Light, that is what you seek, is important. This has been the drive for all kinds of stuff in mind world: God, Hell, Brahman, Atman, Sun, Fire, Spark, the Father, and so on...
Never fear, my brothers and sisters: life after death, eternal damnation, the Geena of Fire, are only fairy tales. Live well, do good, think high, fear nothing - everything will be just fine. Hell and its demonic torments don’t exist (unless of course you’ve experienced Sunday luncheons with the extended Greek family).
How does Dr Dennis know what ancient people thought of those old stories? So some thought them to be real, while others knew it was fiction. Which people thought what?
My favorit joke about who gets in to heaven is. " their was a buss driver and a Pastor who died at the same time. St Pete Looks at the bussdriver. you get to heaven. with out a moments thought. then Pete turn to the Pastor. Well we got to look at this. the pastor looks at him. but you let a man in who never spent anytime in church. he was a drinker and a womanizer. but I spent my life serving the Lord. was a Pastor for my adult life and never broke any comandment. Pete lookt at him. well, when you preached pepole fell a sleep at best, at worst they turnd away from religion. When he drove his buss. the passagers Prayed to God."
@@truthrevealer771 It certainly wasn't via the Biblical god. ----------------------------------------------- "In his famous dialogue between Socrates and Euthyphro, a philosophical quandary is posed thusly: *“Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?” Known as the Euthyphro Dilemma, the problem boils down to this: If something is morally good simply because it is commanded by God, then morality is arbitrary. God could decide tomorrow that murder and rape are morally acceptable, and voilà, it would be. On the other hand, if God commands what is already morally good, then morality exists independently of God. He is not the source or creator of morality, not the one who determines right from wrong, but merely one who dispenses a system of ethics that transcends his own authority.* In response, theists attempt to wiggle their way out of the dilemma by suggesting that God’s very nature, or character, is good, so that he would never condone such wicked acts as rape or murder. But then all one has to do is reformulate the question, à la philosopher Michael Martin: “Is God’s character the way it is because it is good, or is God’s character good simply because it is God’s character?” The dilemma stands, as God’s character remains subject to an external definition of what is moral or good. *Why is this? It’s because morality is an abstraction, or social contract, produced collectively by sentient beings, and to which all sentient beings are subject. And it’s something that naturally arises on a pragmatic basis for the sake of order and harmony within any civilized society. God, therefore, is neither the source of morality, nor a necessary explanation for its existence.* *But imagine for a moment the sheer absurdity of suggesting that the biblical God is the supreme author of morality.* A God who demands the extermination of men, women, and children (1 Sam. 15:1-3), who delights in the retaliatory act of seizing infants and dashing them against rocks (Ps. 137:8-9), of raping the wives of Israel’s enemies (Is. 13:16), even orchestrating the brutal death of dozens of children by savage bears, merely for having mocked one of his prophets (2 Kgs. 2:23-24). *This is a ferociously partisan, bloodthirsty, and vengeful deity, not one bound by any high-minded or all-encompassing moral code.* Theists will typically defend such verses in one of three ways: 1) by suggesting that “those were different times,” thus invoking moral relativism and destroying their own case for an objective morality stemming from God; 2) by appealing to context, of which there simply isn’t any to justify the depravity above; and 3) by pleading, “that was the Old Testament,” or, “Jesus changed all that,” tacitly admitting that the God they ostensibly worship was once horrible and in need of change, which further contradicts any claims to the immutable and unchanging character of God (e.g., Mal. 3:6; Heb. 13:8; Jm. 1:17). *Suffice it to say, neither God nor the Bible serve as the basis for morality."* *"Is God Necessary for Morality? | atheologica"* --------------------------------------------------------- Also look up: *"God is the Source of Morality. (Not.) | atheologica"* *"Morals Don't Come From God: For This I Know Because the Bible Tells Me So"* - Dr Steven DiMattei. *"Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies | Psychology Today"*
The way you describe Mary K Baxter’s book, Bill Wiese’s 23 Minutes in Hell was exactly like that for me. I heard about Mary K Baxter’s book from Bill Wiese.
I tend to gravitate towards the vedic stories of reincarnation. They speak of various hells but they aren't permanent. Karma must be paid, so it makes sense to have levels of hell in that context. The idea is, at least, just.
Lots of people know what happens after death. Near death experiences have been around for a long long time. People who have died know what happens. How does he not understand that?
Christianity conditions minds to believe in all kinds of fallacies and superstitions. My mother is also Christian, but unlike your mother, my mother believes she going to heaven. Good luck at de-conditioning her. She just has to grow out of it in her own time. Nothing you can do, in all likelihood. Heaven and hell are within you. They are states of consciousness, and they are present-moment, not occurring in a future time.
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Grab his book here - www.amazon.com/Synopses-Tragedy-Gospels-Dennis-MacDonald/dp/B0BPGCDV2F/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3S162M55XF0C7&keywords=Dennis+MacDonald&qid=1681333186&sprefix=dennis+macdonald%2Caps%2C232&sr=8-1
The bible is not really about morality or 'Good and Evil' how we understand it. It is just a manual to practice detachement. Only through detachment you will be able to 'see the Light'. (and real concentration of course!)
The 'Light' has been called God, Hell, whatever... all these 'definitions' were put on it AFTER these searchers came back and could THINK about it.
DURING their 'stay' in the Light there is no Good, there is no Evil, there are no thoughts or feelings, there are no angels or demons,... there is only Light. This is the lesson: "YOU are there to see it. Even though you saw 'yourself' be 'destroyed' moments ago."
When you 'return' to the world, YOU see 'yourself' be created again.
That is the lesson. You are not what you think you are. YOU are free from good and evil, guilt and shame,... those are the illusions put unto you.
I’ll take the big Mac meal
Telling children about hell as if it's real is child abuse.
Telling children they could get hit by a bus is child abuse.
@@andrewferg8737One is an accident. And the other is an inescapable eternal punishment for a flawed and finite life.
@@adrianaslund8605 "inescapable eternal punishment" ---
God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. That is inescapable and eternal.
Are you suggesting an alternative to existence in and of itself by which you could exist?
"in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17)
"those who war against You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41)
"Let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69)
"behold, he was no more; Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found” (Psalm 27)
"the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112)
@@adrianaslund8605 "inescapable eternal" ---
God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. That is inescapable and eternal. There is no alternative.
"in him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17)
"let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69)
"they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41)
"the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112)
"they will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8)
"this state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called hell... The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
@@adrianaslund8605 "inescapable eternal" ---
God is existence in and of Himself. To be without God is to not exist. That is inescapable and eternal. There is no alternative.
"in him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17)
"let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69)
"they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41)
"the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112)
"they will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8)
"this state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called hell... The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
Three nuns died in a car crash and went up to the pearly gates
But Peter said
“you’ve got to answer a question before I can let you in”
So he asked the first nun
“ what was the first woman’s name?”
“ Eve”
“Ok you can go in”
and asked the second nun
“where did Adam and Eve live?”
“Eden”
“ very good in terms you go”
Then he Asked the third nun
“ what did Eve say when she saw Adam for the first time?”
And the nun thought for awhile and said
“ gee that’s a hard one”
“ very good” said Peter
“ in you go”
Vicar of Dibley
I still think my favorite joke about was on South Park.
"Hey wait, I was a devoted Catholic all my life. Why am I in hell?"
"Yeah, you chose wrong."
"Then what about me? I was a protestant."
"Yeah, you also chose wrong."
"Then who the hell was right?"
"That would be the Mormons. Yes, that's right. The Mormons. The Mormons got it right."
@@mai7201x Honestly South Park just had two of the best jokes about hell I have seen
The silver medal being comparing Limbo to a plane stuck on a runaway, and then when it finally takes off, it immediately lands at the gates of Hell, which is a Towing Gate.
Hell was a huge driving factor in me becoming a hyper-conservative Roman Catholic. I think it partially led to my divorce. I was so afraid of hell and doing the wrong thing I was essentially immobilized. I was convinced the RCC was mostly corrupt and I'd indulge in these online content creators telling us the masses offered weren't valid and I needed to do specific prayers at home and hope God didn't damn me to hell if I did them wrong. Not to mention all of the fear around not doing confession correctly, forgetting or withholding a sin on accident/purpose and therefore going to hell. Hell permeates almost 100% of Christian doctrines today. There's almost no love, no peace, no community and no compassion. It's scary. I'm glad I've left it behind. I was massively overweight, depressed, afraid of death.
"hyper-conservative Roman Catholic" --- That is a contradiction, of course.
“one who despairs despises My mercy, making his sin to be greater than mercy and goodness… See, therefore, that this sin alone leads him to hell… for at death when the worm of conscience sleeps no longer, but is gnawing at you, while the devils shout and render to you the reward which they are accustomed to give their servants, that is to say, confusion and condemnation, it is because they wish to bring you to despair” (St. Catherine of Siena “Dialogue: 31. Of the death of sinners” c.1370 AD)
"Jesus spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and never lose heart" (Luke 18)
"we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe" (1 Timothy 4)
"who against all hope, believed in hope" (Romans 4)
“we are saved by hope” (Romans 8)
"In hope, the Church prays for all men to be saved" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1821)
Peace be with you.
I’m so thankful for channels like this. When you see the magician behind the curtain are men who wrote tall fake ass tales, you can free yourself mentally of all fear/manipulation that Christian mythology brings, also all harmful religions for that matter.
Live your life free of fake mental stories, be free to be yourself.
^vaxxed
Having the Pentecostal nanny & constantly being told as a child that I was destined to be punished for eternity if I didn't submit to some imaginary sky-daddy was and is,at the very least, child abuse...
Absolutely.
Big problems in Japan over this, Prime Minister got shot!
The myth of hell was developed to use the "Carrot and stick" technique. Scaring people into subservience just works better that way .
The Bible speaks of hell as a real / actual place of final torment for those who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You might want to read every word before you make silly comments
The myth of heroin addiction was developed to use the "Carrot and stick" technique.
Bible says immortality is a gift given by Jesus Christ to believers. How do unbelievers become immortality?@@acsberean4092
And it still works despite the fact that the second coming is a no show for over two thousand years.
@@acsberean4092you must not have listened to the video
The old testament never talks of hell.. And suddenly there is hell in new testament..... What a creation!
That’s because the god of the Old Testament sounds a lot like the devil, so maybe that was hell
@@MrFireman164 .... This goes a bit more deeper....in the beginning.... There was nothing and only one God was roaming around aimlessly..... He then created things.... Among these, he also created evil..... Since evil existed before humans (as per the shit story). This means God created evil!
@@schnellster1 I know so many people who are terrified of hell, i was told at 13 years old that I would go to hell If I wasn’t saved… save from whom ? The devil? Nope from god.
@@MrFireman164 😂😂😂...the era where the Soviets stoked feminism as a propaganda...in comparision to all such things...this God and hell narration is so top notch that ...even logically inclined minds in this scientifically advanced world are strangely dumbed down to accept this narrative...hats of to the guy who did this mumbo jumbo!
Zooarastarianism
I'm so glad that I dissected the myths about hell when I was breaking down the scriptures. Once I dispelled the notion, I realized that the Bible was full of mess. Very messy. I started to see the big lie. The rest is history, and I love my life the more
It's really telling how apologists arguments typically come down to them not wanting to go to hell more(in some cases I've seen at least) than wanting to go to heaven.
In my former childhood cult, United Pentecostals, many of us weren't living for Jesus. We were living to avoid hell. What a miserable way to live!
@@jeffreyp1855 you live for Jesus now?
@@MrGreekBlade , nope! I am an agnostic / atheist.
I feel the same
A friend of mine was badly burn't by a pot of boiling oil that fell on her as a child. What she recounts is the smell and burning of her face and back and chest. This is unimaginable. No way a god that loves his children could send one there. The mind can be a scary place when imagination runs wild. Doc Macdonald is very knowledgable and knows his mythology like mad. Thanks MV.
A demon accessed and implanted an illusion.
WTF@@migtvill
@@buzzwordy9951Try to understand that demons are outside the time illusion. A burn is an illusion. They are being playful. A burn is heavy depending on time. But it's a hack to impose an insurance of deep through from a higher dimension. Don't get it? Then stay shortform. Both ways work but I promise you, you will see it
@@buzzwordy9951Sorry, i was sleepy when I wrote it. A concept of the matrix is physical trauma is induced by demonic entities as reality is in the clutches of evil beings. I am of the mind that we are in a sub reality to a higher civilization which has an evil side casting this illusion of life, which is very painful and real enough. But there are other more real places out there. I am sorry about the story of this child. It's just when I step back far enough, I can see a lot at work and the day that family will wake up, on the other side, and where this nightmare with those scars, will have faded.
Screw your empy threats of hell empty promises of heaven. There is no god and all religions are no more than sick iron age tales. Also there is no magic so how can practitioners be sent to hell - another of many mistakes in the bible.
A retired Federal District Court Judge once told me that "As far as hell goes, a man can stand anywhere on Earth and throw a stone any notable distance in any direction, and find himself in a thousand unique hells on his way to retrieve it."
I would hope that such a person would say, “Given that the first principle of justice when sentencing any guilty party is that the punishment must fit the crime, the idea of anyone enduring cruel, sadistic, and eternal torments as recompense for temporal offenses is without question the most outrageous moral perversion ever perpetrated on the masses.
@@BrianForTheWin That seems like exactly what he would have said when applying to law school, and it's as perfectly _textbook_ as it is theo-rhetorically sound.
On the actual topic of his statements regarding "A Thousand Hells...", however, this was spoken at the end of his life after decades of practice. Imagine being the person who knows the difference between pledging and ordaining knowledge on such a complex topic. (Unless your heart sinks, you don't get it.)
Our conversation at the time began under a more esoteric context, and it's not actually "his" unique conclusion.
He was paraphrasing a Buddhist parable that also serves as testament to the inherent suffering that results from fearing eternal damnation for temporal or circumstantial offences.
One More Paraphrasing of His Brilliance:
_"The world is always warning about the ongoing war between "Good" and "Evil", but know also that a victory for either will be nothing more or less than a murder/suicide for both"_ .
(Isaiah 45:7)
@@BrianForTheWin …. You have the opportunity to accept eternal life as a GIFT, for free no matter what you did. This is what God offers you..
YOUR CHOICE!!
@@DA-yd2ny I'm not convinced any god(s) exist. I am convinced the god of the bible doesn't exist tho. But I'll take that "free" eternal life as long as I can renege anytime I see fit. Eternity might get boring or depressing.
I was glad to see Dr. MacDonald mention that these Greek myths were pre scientific stories invented by philosophers to make sense of the natural world and of the superstitions of the day and age. After the Greeks started developing the scientific method, things changed but by then, the myth of a suffering afterlife in the underworld was like the proverbial cat out of the bag.
But many people believed in hell before the greeks the cat predates the greeks.
It is difficult to determine how Greek myths functioned in its earlier periods because we have few records. What we have a lot of records of are philosophers challenging Greek myths in various ways. But even Thales who is often considered „the first scientist“ put forth the idea that „the Gods live in material“ and give it its properties. Such as Magnetic stones, or various metals like Mercury etc. Thales explanation is written by Aristotle and is where we get the word Animism from „de Anima“ the title of the book.
But it is a mistake to think that these philosopher „scientists“ were somehow atheistic, not in the least.
They developed more and more abstract notions of God, or the forces ar play in the universe. Aristotle for example wrote extensively about daimons.
But there appears to have been similar trends in Judaism, for example Isaiah had a very abstract transcendent notion of God, and in that narrative he ridicules idol worshippers in a similar way that the Greek philosophers did.
Heraclitus proposal an invisible central order or truth of the universe, the Logos.
What happens in Christianity, is Jesus is then designated as the full embodiment of the Logos, and is the Logos. But early Christians also believed Socrates and Heraclitus also spoke the Logos but were not the embodiment of the full Logos.
The Greek philosophies would seem like a religion to modern people, not science, a very abstract religion, but that is why a strand of it naturally merged and evolved into Christianity and becomes very idolatrous within a few hundred years.
The Greeks didn't discover or create anything. They too copied everything from older sources. I.e Sumerians
My trauma about hell become when I read Kathrine k. Bacster's book. I was a teenager when I read this. Even after I become atheist, the fear of hell lingered. Even though it's dissapating eventually
I watched a guy who wrote the book "Rethinking Hell" on the Preacher Boys Podcast and it changed everything for me. I became free that day....I am so grateful that there's no such place, and that I don't ever have to live in fear anymore. I just wish my parents would be willing to watch podcasts like this and become free as well.
@TupacMakaveli1996 yes that's the one. And the book is by the same guy, Chris Date.
The Bible clearly teaches that there is a place of eternal torment for those who reject Jesus as Lord and Savior.
@@acsberean4092 and you're going there yourself
@@matheusmuylart2597 Sorry, but I repented of my sin 56 years ago and received Jesus as my Lord and Savior. He promised to never leave or forsake me.
@@acsberean4092 wrong church, buddy
In my days as a Baptist Fundamentalist preacher hell never really worried me. The torment that I endured was instead a litteral hell on earth based on a belief that Jesus was monitoring my thoughts 24/7.
At least in Orwells novel no one really knew if the telescreen was monitoring you or not. But with jesus he was in your head, never sleeping and always reading your mind.
Not only did Jesus read your mind, but he punished you for your impure thoughts. "For who he loves he corrects". So if something bad happened to me I always attributed it to something I either did wrong, or thought wrong. For example, the flat tire I got was probably due to checking out the womans ass in front of me at the gas station. This was a source of constant fear. Even sleep provided no protection since Jesus was always aware, waiting with his correcting rod.
In fact, this cognitive distortion was the final shackles thrown off of my mind from my former faith. It was true freedom. Unfortunately it took years of internal struggles to finally break free from that loop that Christianity fettered me into. I had to use my own training in CBT to finally break it. I was alone and too embarrassed to explain what I was fighting. But when I finally stood in my kitchen and said out loud that there is no one reading my mind and that my thoughts have no bearing on events I cannot or could not control, and to prove my point I cursed the name of Jesus and went on about my day.
For years Christianity was my personal Hell.
In a comment above, I describe how I went through a very traumatic struggle to leave Christianity in the early 1980's. What drove me into this very traumatic struggle is because of how Christians say you have free will. But, then with such insane, blatant hypocrisy, Christians say you either have to serve their angry god or serve satan and then be tortured forever in a fiery burning hell, with no second chance to be "saved" after death or taking the 666 mark of the beast! As if that is not bad enough, Christians also say if you do not worship their angry god, then you have to worship someone or something else as your "gods". It is absolutely impossible to get Christians to see and understand these insane, crazy contradictions! Even though I have been a member of the Freedom from Religion Foundation since 1983, and the leader of the Freedom from Religion Foundation, Dan Barker is a former preacher who is today one of the most famous atheists today, I still often have these very traumatic feelings of the Christian hell being real and how the angry Christian god is going to judge me and eternally punish me, and because of how I was not born into a Christian family, this angry Christian god is going blame me and hold me responsible for I could not convert my family and friends to what was my "born again" Christian fundamentalist insanity, during the years of when I was a Christian! These traumatic feelings often still come down upon me, especially when I read about people who claim to have visited the Christian hell in near-death experiences! It often angers me how Amnesty International and the American Civil Liberties Union are not doing anything about eternal torture in a fiery burning hell, and also how according to the Christian fundamentalists, we have to either serve their angry god or serve satan, and you have to worship! If I sound like a crazy crackpot, then I have to admit being an ex-Christian is just as much a hard struggle as being a recovered alcoholic! Throw the golden calf in the garbage can, because I don't want to worship any 'gods"! Since you are a former Baptist Fundamentalist preacher, I admit I sent you this reply for someone for whom I can relate to about religious trauma.
Christ is Lord! He is Risen! All Glory to God! Yeshua my Lord!
I can relate to what you wrote. Thank you for sharing
@kthalma999 "that still small voice"
I remember hearing that phrase from the pulpit time and time again and I remember using it from the pulpit time and time again. 😆 It is interesting how much of the Christian belief system is just passed on catch phrases like that.
Well, you're correct. Heaven and hell are present-moment states of consciousness. Your story is a great example of that. They arise in your consciousness through your choices.
People who tell people they are going to hell are in hell themselves. Otherwise they wouldn't do this.
Psychologically that's true.
Hell can't be eternal punishment for sins. By the time we're in our 30s we can barely remember what we did when we were toddlers. Imagine how it will be trying to remember what one did wrong 3,000 years ago. After that much time in Hell, a person would change so much that they would essentially no longer be the person who was sent to Hell in the first place.
This is exactly the kind for thinking I do. I am a Good Witch who believes in a creator and not just because of being a Christian in the past. But I don't believe in a creator who is willing to let his children suffer for all eternity because that's like giving his children a toy which the world is our toy in this sense then rips it away from us then goes over board and sends us to torture. Religious people always think me horrible for thinking this way and even if I can't always answer them properly I'm honestly glad now not to because frankly a lot of them only want to hear one word and that's Jesus is the way even though most of them don't even follow his teachings either. I have many atheist in my group of friends and family but it doesn't scare me any longer where they are going because they are good people and that to me is enough. Death is the great impossible we all will reach one day but no matter where it takes me next or doesn't I am so grateful to live this life. It's so hard right now too yet I can still say I'd still never give this life up for anything.
After long enough time in hell you get used to it
One never gets used to burning in hell. It's torment for eternity.
@@aaronhicks6019 that isn't what I'm saying at all. One would not be the same one that first went to Hell after only about a few hundred years
What are your thoughts about the after life and evil people now? Not debating just asking. I don't have an answer. It's problematic. If everything presumably happens within Gods will then what could God do with the evil despots. Secondly, despots vs those who lived decent in terms of reward No after life solves it of course but I think it exists. Nothing means there's no point to even trying. I've heard that countered with it matters in terms of what we leave. That has a wide margin of error though person by person. And ghosts do exist so that's another detail. @@leafe-lu3jd
Good idea to start a conversation about a heavy topic like this with a few good jokes! I recognised many elements of this discussion from Bart Ehrman's book "Heaven and Hell". I'm not a christian anymore since almost 1,5 years now and I rationally do not believe in the existence of hell, but it's so hard to get rid of the fear and nasty feelings about hell despite of that! The idea of a real hell has rooted for 31 years of my life. It's good to hear messages like this now and then.
You were never a Born-Again Christian.
@@acsberean4092 Oh my goodness, the most horrible cliché judgment that there is. You sound like you're God himself, who was totally involved in my painful process over the past years. Apparently you know it all. But I will tell you one thing: If I was never a truly born-again Christian, then I think nobody can be a Christian at all, because Jesus was my whole life.
@@ReligieVrij Actually, Jesus is the one who said it. You were maybe a believer, just like the demons in hell and Judas (James 2:19), but not a receiver. You called yourself a Christian, but you were not Born-Again, for if you were, you would have continued as one. You turned your back on the Creator of all things, who is Love, and gave Himself as a ransom and the final sacrifice for your sin. (Matt 20:28; 1 John 2:19,4:10)
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I NEVER knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matt 7:21-23)
It is clear that your heart has become hardened, your ears cannot hear, and you have closed your eyes-so your eyes cannot see, your ears cannot hear, your heart cannot understand, and you cannot turn to Jesus and let Him heal you (Matt 14:15).
There is a way back through repentance because "if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1).
@@acsberean4092 I used the exact same bible verses and kind of reasoning to other people, so I can’t blame you. I forgive you and I don’t need the love of Jesus for that. That said, know that there are debates about this topic once saved always saved. Your view is just one view. Every camp has their bible verses to point to.
@@ReligieVrij When a person becomes Born-Again, their spirit, mind, and Body become the Temple of God, the Holy of Holies. Jesus promised to NEVER leave or forsake them. That means if they could somehow walk away from Jesus after becoming Born-Again, He would remain with them for all eternity.
Derrick, once again you drag the illogical shades of humanity's past kicking and screaming into the light of calm and rational reason. However, after spending Christmas with the extended family, I can tell you with certainty that hell does exist, and my drunk aunt is throwing up in the ninth ring's lavatory. Hope you had a great new year... Looking forward to the 2024 season of Mythvision!
😂
I'm grateful that I took the time to examine and unravel the misconceptions surrounding the concept of hell while delving into the scriptures. Once I cleared away those misunderstandings, I began to perceive the intricate and nuanced narratives within the Bible. It was a transformative moment, as I recognized the complexity behind the beliefs I held. The journey since then has been a remarkable one, and I've come to cherish my life even more." 📖🙏🌟
It never made sense to me that there was a devil that was going to torture all the people that went to hell. It would seem to me that would be against Satan's own best interest. Having more members in his gang against a god who condemned them would make his war against God stronger.
Nobody in the atheist community has mentioned Mary K. Baxter. I was so happy to know someone else who's an atheist heard her awful story because it's what sent me on a downward spiral with my mental health back in 2015.
It really messed me up as a teen, like Derek said the attention to detail and creativity in the torture (it’s probably pretty ridiculous and poorly written if I read it as an adult not attached to Christian indoctrination) in that garbage book literally gave me nightmares, I’m sure her book was a best seller at the time
she's not the only one this is the first ive heard of Mary k Baxter..but i have read a lot of material those are just to instil fear
Don’t be deceived by the adversity. The scriptures don’t teach us hell is torture for all time. We fear the Lord not bc of hell but bc of his Goodness. His awesomeness
Bill Wiese's story also put me in a mental state of turmoil at that same time. @@mai7201x
I’m almost tempted to say that a person should be jailed for writing such filth. It’s so unjust for a person to have that kind of power with words - where they are destroying peoples minds with fear and nightmares.
I converted to being a "born again" Christian fundamentalist at the age of 19 in the fall of 1975, or what were often "Jesus freaks" back then. Then in the early 1980's, I went through a very traumatic struggle to leave Christianity and eventually join the Freedom from Religion Foundation. However, I still have these very traumatic feelings the Christian hell may very well be real, especially since I often read about people who claim to have visited the Christian hell in near-death experiences. If there really is an eternal burning hell, even for good people who are not the right kind of Christians, with no second chance to be saved from this burning hell after death or taking the 666 mark of the beast, then this is a horrible abuse of human rights, as a violation of the 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, that clearly prohibits cruel and unusual punishment! So why aren't Amnesty International and the American Civil Liberties taking serious political human rights action and doing something about this eternal abuse of human rights? It really angers me how human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and civil rights organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union, are not doing anything about this eternal damnation in a fiery burning hell!
Have you heard the story about heaven and hell and the 10 foot chopsticks?
God is love brother. The more you remind yourself of this the easier it is to dismiss and dispel all notions of eternal conscious torment for his children. Peace.
The notion of an eternal torture in Hell is immoral, illogical and infantile.
As it's illogical, it is easily disproven (unless one believes in a Satanic god).
@@corbentaylor7825 if that's the case then what is love?
What does a belief in hell have to do with civil liberties? Everyone is allowed to believe what they want to believe in a free society. I don't believe in hell but if I were to tell someone else that they can't believe in hell I'd be infringing on their civil liberties. The job of civil liberties organizations is to protect people from government abuse, not tell them what to think.
The concept of hell, a place of ETERNAL punishment is the most cruel and unjust idea. A punishment is meant to teach a lesson so that the 'sinner' doesn't repeat his 'sin'. What crime must a person do to merit ETERNAL DAMNATION? the Catholic church regards not going to church on Sunday a mortal sin! meaning that if you don't go to mass on Sunday may land you in hell FOR ETERNITY!
Yep. If you're not at approved locations at approved times, & stay there for an hour once a week the Sky Wizzard gets so angry he tortures you in a lake of fire FOREVER!! 😂 I think God needs a girlfriend. He's got way too much time on his hands. And, he needs to work on his forgiveness issues. Imagine caring that much about what other's do & think. 😂
@danmurray1143 I can imagine it and it would drive me crazy.
Part of the problem with what you have just written, is you apparently believe that eternity has to do with time. You have conflated eternity with everlasting, as have many, but the words have too different meanings and this was understood by early Christians.
Eternity has nothing to do with time, as it is transcendent of time. When the Greeks used the word eternity, (Aeon) they meant “the fullness of time.” That is to say, Eternity is the past, present and future all being experienced at once. And as Joseph Campbell explained:
„Eternity isn't some later time. Eternity isn't even a long time. Eternity has nothing to do with time. Eternity is that dimension of here and now that all thinking in temporal terms cuts off. The experience of eternity right here and now, in all things, whether thought of as good or as evil, is the function of life.“
But to get the point across as far as early Christians, St. Augustine explained, something is eternal if it exists in a timeless, unchanging state. So eternal truths are unchanging and are not in, or influenced by, time.
This is a strand of Platonist thought in Christianity. The ideal is not the real. The ideal is transcendent of the real, and yet is the kernel of which the real is derived from.
So with this change of definition is there „eternal damnation“. I would say allegorically yes.
I am writing this in a hotel room in Hamburg. A severely depressed friend was suppose to arrive. He never showed up and talked to him over the phone for 3 hours. He said he had a panic attack on the train platform, because he was afraid that he would arrive in Hamburg and when he gets here I would reject him and he would loose our friendship and he was afraid of being abandoned and facing rejection one more time. But in this neurosis he is going through he himself is abandoning his friendships, and he is abandoning himself, and rejecting himself.
He is traveling through hell, repeating the same pattern. And the hell feels eternal, where the past, the present and future are conflated and conceived of in a very negative way. But what is the source and origin of this? In scientific terms perhaps his amygdala is irritated so he repeats a trauma, but this material reductionist view tells us next to nothing of the experience.
We talked on issues and he felt a little better.
But the point is we often experience various hells and Heavens while we are alive.
Did Dante understand this. Of course he did.
IMO there is some evidence that in the modern period there has been an increase religious literalism not a decrease. Part of the issue are reactionary groups, but part of the issue is the fact that fewer people understand how allegory and poetry functions.
@matthewkopp2391 We all know what the word eternity means. And it's not what you just said. 😆 The Bible has been translated hundreds of times. The word eternity keeps being selected because that is precisely what the ancient authors meant to convey. Eternal Hell was used to scare people into compliance & it worked.
You're in a cult Matt. They have terrified you into believing in a Sky Wizzard. You have been brainwashed into believing in silly ancient myths.
does anyone get out of hell? if not then it's a never ending punishment. Call it eternity or everlasting. it is still never ending.@@matthewkopp2391
The concept of hell is preposterous, always was always will be. Grew out of that fear at about 11/12.
Same here. Never really believed in it even when I was a Christian.
The Bible speaks of Hell as a real/actual place and not a concept.
"hell is preposterous"---
God is existence in and of Himself.
To be without God is to not exist.
That is inescapable and eternal.
There is no alternative.
"in him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17)
"let them be blotted out of the book of the living" (Psalm 69)
"they shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing” (Isaiah 41)
"the wicked shall see and be grieved; he will gnash his teeth and waste away" (Psalm 112)
"they will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8)
"this state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called hell... The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church)
@acsberean4092 yeah and the Lord of The Rings talks about Mordor and there's about the same level of evidence for both. Zero
@andrewferg8737 I'm without God and I exist. I presume you don't believe Hades and Valhalla exist? Why not?
The concept of a "judgement" goes back to ancient Egypt during the Middle Kingdom era (i.e. 2055 BCE to 1650 BCE). It also appears later in the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism, which seems to be where Christianity picked it up from, and then later Islam (although Islam may have been influenced directly by Zoroastrianism via the Sassanid Empire in the 7th century CE). The Jews lived under Persian rule between 539 BCE to 330 BCE, where they encountered Zoroastrianism and its ideas. The Jews then lived under the Greeks (due to the empire of Alexander the Great) from 330 BCE up until 63 BCE when Judea was conquered by the Romans. When the Jews were living under Greek rule, this is when Hellenistic Judaism developed and in Alexandria, Egypt (also under the rule of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty) the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek (which is where we get mistranslations like the Hebrew word "alma", meaning "young woman", being translated into the Greek word for "virgin", which is the reason for the myth of the virgin birth of Jesus). The Jews picked up on the Greek underworld god Hades, which they then passed onto Christianity as "the Devil".
The word Satan originally meant adversary in Hebrew and first appeared in the Old Testament book of Job (which was written during the Jews' captivity in Neo-Babylon between 586 BCE to 539 BCE, when they were liberated by Cyrus of Persia, who defeated the Neo-Babylonians). The book of Job was a Hebrew/Jewish version of a Babylonian myth called Ludlul bel nemeqi aka "Babylonian Job", which is about a nobleman named Shubshi-meshre-Shakkan and the supreme Babylonian god Marduk. The story of Job is also similar to the ancient Egyptian Middle Kingdom era story called the Tale of Sinuhe, which is about a palace worker named Sinuhe, who goes through trials and remains loyal to the king, just as Job goes through the trials he is put through by God and Satan but he still has faith in God. The Tale of Sinuhe is also similar to the Old Testament story of Joseph, which in turn is similar to the story of Jesus.
The name "Lucifer" is a Latin name and was originally used for a Roman god of the morning star, and part of a trinity or triad with two other deities: Luna, the Roman moon goddess (from where we get the word "lunar"), and Vesper, the Roman god of the evening star. This trinity referred to the planet Venus in its two forms as the morning and evening stars, as well as the moon. The planet Venus is the second brightest celestial object in the night sky after the moon. The Greek underworld god Hades had a weapon called a bident (similar to the sea god Poseidon's trident), which eventually became the Devil's pitchfork. A pitchfork is a tool used by farmers, and Hades, being the god of the underworld, was closely associated with the earth and farming. The depiction of the Devil as a goat figure is borrowed from the Greek god Pan, who is depicted as half-goat/half-man. The word "Devil" is etymologically related to the word "daeva", who were ogres in Persian mythology, and also the enemies of the good Peri beings. The Daevas tried to lock the Peris in iron cages, and their enmity was kind of similar to that of Devils vs Angels. The word "demon" comes from the Greek word "daimon", which refers to a spirit in Greek mythology, and the word "angel" comes from the Greek word "angelos", meaning "messenger". In Greek mythology, Hermes was the messenger god and Iris was the messenger goddess.
Very nice work done here
You nailed it
In 2023 it boggles my mind that there are still humans with all the education available and the knowledge easily acquired and the advances attained, who still are duped by the abject myths of religions... just sad!
@@mai7201x "So many people want to live on forever"... and in the name of that wishful thinking they carry out all sorts of vile actions here and now on OTHERS... humanity is really a turpitude.
I read the exact same book by Baxter as a teenager. I had nightmares, went around thinking about what I had read, I was scared to death. I even brought the book to school so my friends could avoid hell too. I wish there were some kind of punishment for influencing people with horror stories like these.
There is. They are going to Hell.
Your first mistake was in believing any book written by a person who dreamed the contents. Not unlike another better-known volume where prophets made their proclamations after hearing inner voices, or experiencing visions and those pesky dreams... a book that has dominated untold millions since it was first cobbled together.
@@gregoryboyd7176 Well, being 13 years old with no critical thinking skills because of growing up in a pentecostal home, it's not that easy. I also truly believed in hell even before I read the book. It just confirmed what I thought to be true, and expanded on it.
@@notanemoprog😂😂😂😂😂
@@ring-tone278 I'm so scared. Go rant in a corner instead.
The frightening thing is that there are actually people willing to worship an entity who can come up with that sadistic punishment and to admire and call it the epitome of goodness.
Indeed. The "god of love"!!!!
You must’ve come to that conclusion after studying the bible thoroughly, I hope
@@DA-yd2ny I've studied the bible extensively and found it to be full of contradictions and inconsistencies.
This is great. I never believed I was going to hell because I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness, and was one for 60 years. They had a strong hold on me because I was born in. we were taught that if Jehovah doesn’t approve of us, we would die at Armageddon with no chance of a resurrection and conscious of nothing. Basically no different than a rock. 😢
I was JW too and hell is one thing they actually got right
No birthday parties and no birthday presents to celebrate your birthday and no December Holiday Season celebrations and Holiday Season presents? As an adult, do you now feel you were robbed of your childhood?
No birthday parties and no birthday presents, no December Holiday Season celebrations and no Holiday Season presents? As an adult today, do you feel you were robbed of your childhood?@@cygnustsp
@@rosskardon7195
Yes. Sitting in the school library during parties felt like a punishment. No holidays when all of the other family members (cousins, aunts, uncles) invited us to celebrate with them and we had to decline. That’s hard on a child. It’s now nice to have the freedom to do what I please.
I was never threatened with Hell or told I would be rewarded with heaven. When I was in High School an Evangelical Christian asked me if I was going to Heaven or Hell. I didn't know what to say because no one had ever mentioned Heaven or Hell. I’m Jewish no rabbi or religious instructor had nothing to say about either.
There's a simple question that disproves Hell:
Can your god create someone who is _more loving, more forgiving, more logical, more moral, more mature, more sensible, more pragmatic, more imaginative, more merciful, more just, more empathetic, more compassionate_ than itself?
Being brought up brainwashed into "thinking" in an infantile way, the religious have the childish urge to apply _all_ the superlatives to their deity, regardless of the logical problems such idiocy throws up, so they have to reply "no".
Therefore, in order to prove the notion of an eternity in Hell to be false, all you have to do is find one person, _just one,_ who is too compassionate, too merciful, too forgiving, to send _anyone_ to such an awful fate. If THEY are too merciful and caring, then their god would HAVE to also be.
It's simple Logic, but Logic and Facts are something the religious brain rejects, so they tend to either shut up, or come up with all kinds or ridiculous mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to reconcile a simple argument with their dangerous, vile bollocks.
Dante's Inferno now that's some interesting Christian fanfic.
Reads pretty much like revenge fantasy p*rn, especially since he included contemporaries and historical figures he didn't like all getting tortured.
Did you ever play the PS3 game? I thought it was really cool. It even has the full poem with cool music and maybe it was narrated but i could be misremembering that
@GameTimeWhy I played a little of the 360 I believe version it was pretty good. The game developers did excellent in recreating Dantes Inferno.
The tone in this episode is so interesting. It starts out intense, with Derek's emotional account of how his beliefs harmed him. Then it segues into jokes. After that, we're treated to just some really chill storytelling that's relaxing to listen to, despite the subject matter. I also learned a lot!
This myth ruined my entire childhood...i was scared every night...every meal scared my dads prayer wouldnt be good enough
Derek, up until I was in my early-20s (I'm early 70s now) I had similar fears to those you announced. Partly this was because I was "agnostic" but realised I was atheist. What brought me out of it was the realisation that both heaven and hell are tortures. Heaven because existing in a "perfected" human form for an infinite amount of time is a boredom of hellish proportions as you will be forced to repeat every experience infinitely.
Then I started considering those with physical and mental debilities are they condemned? What if you go to heaven in your current state? Imagine the torture experienced by those with dementia. At this point I realised that the concept of an afterlife is irrational and dogmatic fantasy.
Later on I found out that the visions and out of body experiences from which people describe the afterlife can be emulated with brain stimulation or deprivation of blood/oxygen to the brain or simple chemical effects from substances such as ketamine.
Back in 1984, I briefly lived with my late uncle, who had become a born-again Christian being Jewish all his life. He influenced his beliefs on me. I remember having a dream in his apartment, which coincidentally was his as a child growing up he took over the apartment when his mom, my grandmother, died. Anyway, I had this dream I was in Hell, and I remember that Moses, not Jesus, saved me. I remember hearing the Stryper song Loving you was similar to my dream. Jews don't believe in an ever lasting hell. You might go somewhere but it is temporary. I suggest Derek have a conversation with Rabbi Tovia Singer about this. I don't know if you guys talk anymore or what happened to the relationship you 2 had.
I don’t think people understand the mental damage that book by Mary Baxter did to a young person like myself who believed in Christianity, to this day I still remember scenes from that garbage book.
I never heard of it. I'll have to read it sometime.
@@debrapaulino918 it’s an interesting book, it actually started my fascination with horror
When my children were very young and asked do l believe in the devil, l told them the smartest people don't and dumbest people believe in the devil, they came back from catholic school and stated that they were atheists, that didn't go so moderately
Back in the day the local rubbish dump (sometimes dexcribed as a "pit" in the Bible) was constantly burning rubbish to keep it from overflowing. They kept the fire going night and day to get rid of the rubbish; to prevent it from building up. "Hell" is God's rubbish dump, a very unpleasant place, where "the fire is not quenched".
There are a 100X more vivid descriptions of hell, than there are of heaven. And the descriptions of heaven are confined to those things of value, as seen on earth.
I agree with you but why do you think the descriptions of hell were made to be more vivid?
There’s also 100x more stories of people going to heaven then hell. And everyone’s hell story is not the same
Polybius, the ancient historian, says: "Since the multitude is ever fickle, full of lawless desires, irrational passions and violence, there is no other way to keep them in order but by the fear and terror of the invisible world; on which account our ancestors seem to me to have acted judiciously, when they contrived to bring into the popular belief these notions of ... the infernal regions."
Heaven is symbol of the wealthy.Hell is a symbol of the working class and the poor.
Plenty of things can account for "visions", whether that be visions of Hell, Heaven, or other religious realms:
Brain damage to the visual regions of the brain; schizophrenia; temporal lobe epilepsy; hallucinogenic drugs and plants; exposure to chemical gases; location (i.e. at high altitude where the air is thinner, resulting in oxygen deprivation to the brain, which can cause hallucinations i.e. "near-death experiences"); food and water deprivation, which the body compensates by hallucinating food and water i.e. desert mirages of ponds of water are a famous example.
We are the creator and God of our own destiny... everything starts with a thought... we meet our loved ones on the other side and can make our wishes come true with thought
You can see a state of hell here in a human life now, you don't have to wait for after life.
Too much emphasis on that by some has not been beneficial
.Following spiritual principles after falling into a state of hell has brought refreshment and much better life.
Thank you God.
I like the Swedenborgian concept of hell. Where its more of a state of mind. You go to a place tainted with the spiritual energies of Stalin and Hitler. Its not great. But no one's torturing you. Except perhaps other spirits of the dead.
They're all insane books to be followed by insane people, but don't subject children to those false horrors like they did with me and countless others for thousand of years.
Awesome, i was a Christian for 60 yrs- ( I'm 70 now) was in the ministry- & P & W bands, & i always thought that i would go to Hell, - because of " THOUGHTS", that would arise, from outward perceptions ( things i would see) , but didnt act on my thoughts, - but because i would have these thoughts ( per bible- they would be sinful) - so i am glad i no longer believe in hell.
As a Christian, I had nightmares about hell and demons on occasion. Now that I have learned the truth, those silly dreams are gone! Now I can have fun dreams about Dracula and Jason!😊
See, so people only believers because fear of hell and dying. Its not that they really love their god
Yay!
A new MythVision!
It’s a great weekend!!
This mortal realm is the HELL. Don't worry about dying and going to HELL. Instead, worry about dying and RETURNING to HELL.
“Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father, but there is one who accuses you…” (John 5)
"for whereas wickedness is fearful, it is because it bears witness to its own self-condemnation: for a troubled conscience always forecasts grievous things... and they become to themselves more grievous than the darkness"
(Wisdom 17)
The Pinocchio joke 😬
Derek you are a good interviewer, you let people have the mic and only ask clarifying questions. Nicely done as usual.
Happy and Blessed Sabbath everyone !!
Huzzah!
During my NDE I was taken to the edge of the void where I burned for an eternity and watched the stars burn out.
Others may describe that as hell but from my perspective it was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced
These NDE people were taken too.
NDE - LINDA S.: "The wrathful, vengeful God, as taught by my religion, instilled in me a deep fear of God, death, and the afterlife. The NDE transformed me, showing that God is only a loving God, WHO DOES NOT JUDGE AND PUNISH. THERE IS NO HELL or evil. I knew I was in the arms of a being who cherished me with PERFECT LOVE and carried me from the dark void into a new reality. There was no place that God did not exist and I was within God. I am an inseparable part of the light. THE TRUTH OF WHO I AM, INDEED, WHO WE ALL ARE, IS PERFECT LOVE as a creation of God. I had spent a lifetime of fear of judgment and now, standing with God, I HAD BEEN KNOWN COMPLETELY AND FOUND FAULTLESS. I KNEW GOD REGARDED ME AS PERFECT. Finally it all made sense. God could only love me because God is only love, nothing other than love. All is as it is supposed to be. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS OUR TRUE NATURE."
Another Christian...and notice, again....
NDE - ROBYN C.: "I KNOW THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT OR HELL. I just know whatever form God takes, he loves us and welcomes us. I felt an overwhelming sense of complete bliss and contentment. I could see the light ahead of me and felt drawn to it, but I was moving slowly and enjoying the wondrous sensations I felt. Since my experience, I have been certain there is a God, but this is different to what I had believed as a Christian."
Again, no "hell" and
no judgement....
NDE - JASON H.: "I now know that there is a life after death. I NOW KNOW THAT THERE IS NO HELL. In that overwhelming radiating loving light, I met a glowingly beautiful, very loving being. His loving presence completely surrounded me, and together we went through my life and all that I had experienced, IN A LOVING WAY, NOT ANY JUDGING WAY."
Very consistent...
NDE - JASON J.: "After my NDE, I walked right out of the catholic church. Everything I was taught and told was a complete lie. THERE IS NO HELL, THERE IS NO SIN, THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT ON YOU WHATSOEVER. You are loved unconditionally. For all those still in the dark, they will have negative reactions to this."
Yet again, no "hell" and can't be separated....
NDE - GORDON S.: "THERE IS NO 'heaven' and no 'HELL'. I am just now accepting that part of my purpose for coming back is to help other people awaken to the simple truth: WE ARE LOVE, we are part of God, and WE CANNOT EVER BE SEPARATED FROM GOD. The knowing that we are all inter-connected makes it easy for me to accept people, just as they are."
Again, no "hell" and no reward....
NDE - STEVE L.: "THERE IS NO heaven or HELL. THERE IS NO "REWARD" FOR A "GOOD LIFE". Our careers, mistakes, money, etc., mean nothing. I soon realized I did not have my body, and that I was surrounded by consciousness. EVERYTHING IS JUST TOTAL LOVE. There was consciousness that came to me in the form of people I recognized. We join the pure consciousness at the time of leaving our body, and we are all one."
Notice, he clearly understood....
NDE - DOUG F.: "IT WAS CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE IS NO heaven or HELL. Every part of the universe was part of me, and every part of me was part of the universe. THERE WAS COMPLETE INCLUSION AND ACCEPTANCE. This was so far beyond any expectation. Another realization came to me. Everything is known, and there is nothing to learn. Life on earth is not a school, there is nothing to learn. LIFE ON EARTH IS JUST AN EXPERIENCE. NOTHING MORE. As I was guided back, first into the 4th dimension, I could feel the expanded awareness shutting down. THIS LIFE IS ABOUT EXPERIENCE THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE TRULY ARE."
@@ros6111 exactly! When the stars have burned out I was left alone and the void with my resistance. As soon as I released it, then I passed through the veil and perceived that the void was not dark but completely filled with the brightest light imaginable. The light of unconditional love permeated everything, was everything, all things that ever were or will be. I can still feel it
We've all been threatened with hell. It's actually a threat!
For those who don't believe in hell, they apparently don't pay attention to the realm they inhabit, or their definition of hell is different than mine.
In my reading, the original version of the Hellfire Theology comes from Persia (ca. 500 BCE) and possibly from earlier Assyria (ca. 800 BCE).
In the Persian (Farsi, Zarathustra) culture, Hellfire was the proper punishment for the truly wicked -- but it would last only three days, maximum. Then perhaps a much longer purgatory period.
I don't blame the Catholics for inventing Hellfire theology -- I feel sure that the Persians and Assyrians also used it to control *their* children 3,000 years ago.
The Catholics didn't invent the doctrine of hell, Jesus spoke of it himself!
This is nothing more than another gospel to tickle the ears of those who have little faith which is exactly what the prophecy says
@@onejohn2.26.Jesus and his father are burning 🔥 in hell for their sins against mankind.❤
Egyptians are the first
Your heart gets weighed
@@RyanDavis-zg2bw did you know that you will be judged by every word that comes out of your mouth?
@@onejohn2.26. Judge jury executioner is here, g-d for nothing can be hidden from him, he knows everything you do before you do it, no lies can be hidden, everything manifest before him. The vatican never had me fooled once, you do not have be a rocket science to figure this all of this out.
"...[L]ike an area that is still burning inside a piece of wood under the ashes[,] ... [m]urder lies hidden inside these feelings[:] ... hostility, hatred, and revenge, which involve longing for someone's [untimely bodily] death. Hellfire is nothing else. This is why we say someone blazes with hatred or burns for revenge. These feelings are murders at the level of intent even if not in act. If fear of the law, retribution, or revenge were taken away, these feelings would burst into action, ..." ~ Vera Christiana Religio 309 (Rose Translation)
Honestly thinking about what hell was like in terms of how Jesus described it helped me understand demons and spirits and stuff.
hell signifies an unpleasant state of mind. Heaven signifies a pleasasnt state of mind. Those who die in a state of hell could be reincarnated in a bad place, a lower world, while those who die in a state of heaven could be reincarnated in a pleasant place, a higher world.
Wow Derrick. What a great intro. Love this channel so much. Thank you for what you do. !!!
I have noticed similarities between the Christian idea of Lucifer and the last and 7th king of Rome Lucius Superbus, meaning "Lucius the Proud". Just like how the Christian Lucifer is known for pride, arrogance, and hubris. Just as Lucifer was kicked out of heaven by God, Lucius Superbus was overthrown and kicked off the throne in a coup by Roman aristocrats who established the Roman Republic in 509 BCE. Lucifer is similar to Lucius Superbus, and Romulus the first king of Rome is similar to Jesus. Jesus was a demi-god, with his mortal mother Mary and father as the god Yahweh, whereas Romulus (and his twin brother Remus) were demi-gods, being the sons of the mortal Vestal Virgin Rhea Silvia and the war god Mars. And just as Jesus was the "king of the Jews", Romulus was the first king of Rome. Jesus had a passion and so did Romulus; Jesus ascended and Romulus ascended; and Jesus had 12 disciples just as Romulus saw 12 vultures. And the story of Saint Paul's encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus is similar to the Roman myth of Proculus Julius being visited by Romulus. It just seems to me that the whole story of Lucifer aka "the Devil" is borrowed from Roman history and mythology.
Also, the myth of Hell, specifically hellfire, comes from the ancient mistaken belief in geocentrism i.e. that the earth is at the center of the universe and the sun revolves around the earth. According to geocentrism, when the sun sets below the horizon and goes into the underworld, it sets the underworld, or hell, on fire, hence "hellfire", then rises the next morning and starts around the earth again in a cycle. I think knowing this would heal a person's fear of hell, specifically the hellfire that tortures people, since we now know that geocentrism is incorrect.
You can keep doing these videos for the next 20 years and you still will never get over it. There will always be the question in the back of your mind. I say this because I'm in the same boat. Good luck with it.
But Kardecists are certain, not only about the existence of life after death, but also about reincarnation.
"The Wages of Sin is Death but the Gift of God is Eternal Life in Jesus Christ." Thank God that no one. Not even the Devil will be tormented by God forever without End...Annihilation is the Fate of the Lost...And Derek is on his way...Turn to Christ Jesus and be saved...Everyone...
There is no hell except by our own creation. There are 7 spheres of existence on the other side. The lower the sphere, the closer to earth it is. The lowest sphere is a cold and dark place but you can progress if you ask for instruction. When we die we go to the sphere that best suits our last life on earth plane. If you were a vicious gangster or psychopath with no regard for your fellow man, you go to the darker spheres and suffer cold. You are always cold the opposite of what we are taught by Christian religious sects. The light and warmth of God is absent. Spirits in upper spheres can go and visit lower spheres but the spirits in lower spheres cannot go to upper spheres. It is from the lower spheres they may choose to reincarnate to learn lessons on how to avoid going to lower spheres.
Jesus Said More about Hell Than Anyone in the Bible...So i prefer to stay with Jesus opinion,more safe! ;)
Therefore, give heed to Jesus’s clear command to fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Hear it as a great mercy. What a wonderful thing it is that Jesus warns us. He does not leave us ignorant of the wrath to come. He not only warns. He rescues. This is the best effect of fear: it wakens us to our need for help and points us to the all-sufficient Redeemer, Jesus. Let it have this effect on you. Let it lead you to Jesus who says to everyone who believes in him, “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom”
No hell, no Jesus.
@@notanemoprog i stay with Jesus words
Well, hope it works out for ya in the end@@MrGreekBlade
@@MrGreekBlade Wast of time.
So you bought Fire insurance? You believe just in case
Hell is where god punishes people over and over and over with suffering, depression, fear, anxiety, wars, child rape and sacrifice and evety evil imaginable, but it is here on earth.
Heaven and Hell are states of being in a sense... Both are within us; our choices lead our experience on Earth to be either. Right now, we are sitting in Hell, that should be obvious to anyone by the current state of world affairs; but the good news is we're on the cusp of Heaven on Earth.
There isn't one aspect of Judaism or Christianity that wasn't stolen/absorbed from previous religions/cultic practices around them. Greek-Egyptian-Sumerian ancient practices were all cobbled together to form Judaism.
I remember being brought to church as young as 6 yoa and remarking to myself that I was in a room with crazy people. I never found any of it compelling although I did follow the advice of adults and try to develop a supposed relationship with our imaginary friend. It's interesting studied as ancient literature or maybe in anthropology but shouldn't be taken as seriously as some people insist it be.
The Bible is very clear that those who "leave" Christianity never knew Jesus, were never Born-Again, and never became the dwelling place of God, the new Holy of Holies.
All sufferers of cardiac death who had visions still had brain activity. No one has come back from brain death with visions. Hallucinations are not evidence of anything, unfortunately.
That is laughably rediculous. Surgeons stop hearts daily to perform procedures.
@@markdaniels1730that's not true though. There is a difference between brain death and heart death. Also difference between warm or cold and dead.
Bet she read Dante's Inferno, and then dreamed about it, and of course, Jesus took her for a tour. Because what else would a supposed "god", do?
Please wake up = no hell....made up after he died. FYI, NO Hell in the Old Testament. Everyone went to Shiloh.
Amen
I think that you meant Sheol. “Damn you auto correct “.
It’s the valley of Gehenna where children were sacrificed passed/into/through through the fire to Molock (Molk sacrifice) and then the Catholic Church took it and added some more fun so you could be controlled further
Concepts in Hebrew traditions and beliefs have been passed from generation to generation the arrogance of this man to say that some thing was not the belief without any proof just his desire to say so it’s ridiculous
I heard said. When in Hell for a short time. Your burnt up and just rise in smoke forever. You just do not exist.
The simple reality of the so called doctrine of eternal damnation is that it works on fear which prevents growth, spiritual maturity and peace of mind. As human beings, when threatened we go into survival mode. By its very nature, and of necessity, we become completely self-centered to help insure our survival which negates any idea of being loving and charitable. Even as we're doing "good deeds" our goal, really, is to serve ourselves, to escape the pain of terror. And, to put it bluntly, it reflects horribly upon God's character, turning God into the worst asshole imaginable.
One thumb up for the Pinocchio
joke alone
Now I wonder what the philosophers really believed in their heart-of-hearts, if they knew all their myths were just instrumental constructs to communicate a world view?
I Encourage Everyone - "Don't Get Comfortable With this guys "THERE IS NO HELL!"
*WE HAVE IT RIGHT HERE ON EARTH!*
I am an Orthodox Christian - so, a little pagan, like all the Orthodoxy around me. We bring souls out of hell with memorials and prayers, and we know that, in the end, hell remains empty. We have strange customs that are laughed at by "intellectual" people and today's mass media, but I am sure that behind every custom there is a mechanism for the survival of the community.
Yes. Buying indulgences.
And "you know in the end hell remains empty." First off no one in hell is redeemable. Only those in purgatory. Secondly, the message says the sinner is redeemed only through repentance. Prayers and memorials influence a soul to repent? but petitions are made to Jesus or to his mother depending on belief. So that then goes to the lost soul to influence repentance?? Or shorten purgatory time? How can God shorten it if the soul hasn't figured it out.
What you mean is that you are mainstream christian. You vote a certain way but also claim liberty in Jesus to be a little pagan which allows you to fit in and have friends.
I know the christian testament really well. Your prayers and memorials belief to get souls out of hell isn't in it.
The other conundrum is the resurrection for judgement. If you're already in heaven or hell there's no need for judgement because you already have been. It's a matter of getting your body back. So if the soul was in heaven and gets called back to earth to receive its glorified body then it does what. Return to heaven with it? Or earth is the new heaven because the old was done away with? "Where O death is thy sting." And the poor soul in hell goes back into it with a body to weep and knash forever. I know you are intelligent.
Hell is for sure real
As real as you want it to be, actually
Proof, please.
Sadly not. You see, our spirit is drawn from our bodies by the suns light, or gods light if you will. Unfortunately in this era there's something else in the heavens that falsely gives off the suns light (the moon) and this is where most people end up and it is not heaven. @@notanemoprog
None believers usually end up seeing it for themselves, I wont waste my time.@@gleanerman2195
Plato was enlightened. In a sense, the Fire in his Cave was the 'Light' or 'Hell' or 'God'.
He describes a real thing here, maybe the most real, since it was not created by mind.
Angels, demons, the Greek underworld, all stories, ... is just invention of mind.
Even when you see angels before you see the light, these angels are mind only. Not real. Not important. The Light, that is what you seek, is important. This has been the drive for all kinds of stuff in mind world: God, Hell, Brahman, Atman, Sun, Fire, Spark, the Father, and so on...
Never fear, my brothers and sisters: life after death, eternal damnation, the Geena of Fire, are only fairy tales. Live well, do good, think high, fear nothing - everything will be just fine. Hell and its demonic torments don’t exist (unless of course you’ve experienced Sunday luncheons with the extended Greek family).
How does Dr Dennis know what ancient people thought of those old stories? So some thought them to be real, while others knew it was fiction. Which people thought what?
My favorit joke about who gets in to heaven is. " their was a buss driver and a Pastor who died at the same time. St Pete Looks at the bussdriver. you get to heaven. with out a moments thought. then Pete turn to the Pastor. Well we got to look at this. the pastor looks at him. but you let a man in who never spent anytime in church. he was a drinker and a womanizer. but I spent my life serving the Lord. was a Pastor for my adult life and never broke any comandment. Pete lookt at him. well, when you preached pepole fell a sleep at best, at worst they turnd away from religion. When he drove his buss. the passagers Prayed to God."
Hah, that's a good one
The bus driver must have been bad at driving in order for his passengers to start praying to God while riding his bus.
You can find hell right here on earth.
His truth is marching on
How did morals come into existence?
Morals don't exist. It's an abstract concept
How do you know if something exist or not? Please provide evidence that support your claim.
@@truthrevealer771 It certainly wasn't via the Biblical god.
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"In his famous dialogue between Socrates and Euthyphro, a philosophical quandary is posed thusly: *“Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?” Known as the Euthyphro Dilemma, the problem boils down to this: If something is morally good simply because it is commanded by God, then morality is arbitrary. God could decide tomorrow that murder and rape are morally acceptable, and voilà, it would be. On the other hand, if God commands what is already morally good, then morality exists independently of God. He is not the source or creator of morality, not the one who determines right from wrong, but merely one who dispenses a system of ethics that transcends his own authority.*
In response, theists attempt to wiggle their way out of the dilemma by suggesting that God’s very nature, or character, is good, so that he would never condone such wicked acts as rape or murder. But then all one has to do is reformulate the question, à la philosopher Michael Martin: “Is God’s character the way it is because it is good, or is God’s character good simply because it is God’s character?” The dilemma stands, as God’s character remains subject to an external definition of what is moral or good. *Why is this? It’s because morality is an abstraction, or social contract, produced collectively by sentient beings, and to which all sentient beings are subject. And it’s something that naturally arises on a pragmatic basis for the sake of order and harmony within any civilized society. God, therefore, is neither the source of morality, nor a necessary explanation for its existence.*
*But imagine for a moment the sheer absurdity of suggesting that the biblical God is the supreme author of morality.* A God who demands the extermination of men, women, and children (1 Sam. 15:1-3), who delights in the retaliatory act of seizing infants and dashing them against rocks (Ps. 137:8-9), of raping the wives of Israel’s enemies (Is. 13:16), even orchestrating the brutal death of dozens of children by savage bears, merely for having mocked one of his prophets (2 Kgs. 2:23-24). *This is a ferociously partisan, bloodthirsty, and vengeful deity, not one bound by any high-minded or all-encompassing moral code.* Theists will typically defend such verses in one of three ways: 1) by suggesting that “those were different times,” thus invoking moral relativism and destroying their own case for an objective morality stemming from God; 2) by appealing to context, of which there simply isn’t any to justify the depravity above; and 3) by pleading, “that was the Old Testament,” or, “Jesus changed all that,” tacitly admitting that the God they ostensibly worship was once horrible and in need of change, which further contradicts any claims to the immutable and unchanging character of God (e.g., Mal. 3:6; Heb. 13:8; Jm. 1:17).
*Suffice it to say, neither God nor the Bible serve as the basis for morality."*
*"Is God Necessary for Morality? | atheologica"*
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Also look up:
*"God is the Source of Morality. (Not.) | atheologica"*
*"Morals Don't Come From God: For This I Know Because the Bible Tells Me So"* - Dr Steven DiMattei.
*"Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies | Psychology Today"*
The way you describe Mary K Baxter’s book, Bill Wiese’s 23 Minutes in Hell was exactly like that for me. I heard about Mary K Baxter’s book from Bill Wiese.
Religion is Division. God is ONE.
I tend to gravitate towards the vedic stories of reincarnation. They speak of various hells but they aren't permanent. Karma must be paid, so it makes sense to have levels of hell in that context. The idea is, at least, just.
The heaven joke I already knew, but the hell joke was just delicious!
I didn't know either and I was in stitches after the Lutheran one. MacDonald is a great storyteller
Lots of people know what happens after death. Near death experiences have been around for a long long time. People who have died know what happens. How does he not understand that?
Christianity conditions minds to believe in all kinds of fallacies and superstitions.
My mother is also Christian, but unlike your mother, my mother believes she going to heaven. Good luck at de-conditioning her. She just has to grow out of it in her own time. Nothing you can do, in all likelihood.
Heaven and hell are within you. They are states of consciousness, and they are present-moment, not occurring in a future time.