The Mystery of Hultafors Knife Steel Solved (Napisy) Tajemnica Stali Hultaforsa Wyjaśniona
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
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After my review of the Hultafors GK Heavy Duty knife, I kept trying to find out something more about the carbon steel it is made out of. This, then, unknown high carbon steel continued to amaze me and I simply couldn't let it go.
The answer to my question was closer than I thought - Facebook. More precisely, Hultafors Group Facebook page. I ask them my question and got the answer within several days. What did they tell me? Well, watch the video :)
I also took the opportunity to talk a bit about the importance of steel type, its chemical composition and heat treat (quenching, hardening, annealing, tempering and all that good stuff). For that reason, I brought out some of my other knives for comparison: Condor Windfang (1075), Blue Mountain Forge bushcraft knife (o1 tool steel) and a hand-made, Scandinavian knife with an antler handle and NC6 high carbon steel blade.
Odsłaniam tajemnicę stali węglowej używanej przez Hultafors'a (SK-5). Omawiam też pewne aspekty hartowania, odpuszczania i ogólnie pojętej obróbki cieplnej stali oraz jej wpływu na parametry takie jak trzymanie ostrości, giętkość ostrza, szczerbienie i rolowanie ostrza i ogólna sprężystość i wytrzymałość głowni (klingi).
Noz noze nóż noże
I fully agree with your conclusion. I have been using Hultafors GK knives now since 2011 as instructor knives for the Bushcraft Association and never had any of them fail. This also means we are teaching students batoning with the knife and of course they make mistakes so these knives are and have been under a lot of stress. They are tough as nails. Most students ended up buying one for themselves practicing bushcraft and never even heard of any damage on them.
It's all about the heat treat indeed. It's also about how you sharpen the knife.
I tested a knife in Colombia that was a tru scandi and it did roll cutting some hardwood. Gave it a tiny secondary bevel and stropped it into a micro convex and never had that problem again.
The Hultafors GK already has that secondary bevel so I just strop them basically.
Thank you very much for figuring out what kind of steel it is.
I enjoy my Hultafors knives a lot. The HVK and GK.
Steel is a work of art, the crystaline structure can be affected in many, many ways. Hardening the knife(quenching, air cooling etc is easy if soaked for long enough at the right temperacture providing the knife was destressed or normalized beforehand, after hardening its the destressing or tempering that is the critical part, long tempering at a lower temp tends to keeps the hardness up and gives great toughness and flexibility but costs a fortune, Busse knives are tempered for over 48 hours! So most production blades skip on a good tempering or use steels that have a fast temper rate turnover.Hultafors Gk is my main small heavy use knife along with my mora pro robust, but the reason hultafors knives are cheaper than mora is because they are made in Taiwan under licence using japanese sk5 , thats why you never see the country of manufacture on them which by law they should do which is a bit sneaky, the very fine edged bahco chisel knife is also from taiwan and is an exellent carver, but is labelled as being made in Taiwan. Hope this helps
Thanks for this video. I have my own knife channel and Hultafors sent me a knife to review and I was wondering about the steel type.
I TOTALLY agree with you on your main point in this video, that the heat treat on a knife is the biggest factor of it's performance. bad heat treat and there simply is no way that the knife will ever be good. Great heat treat and budget steek can perform very well.
I have bought 4 of these for Christmas gifts. I'll be buying more.
Simon very informative video. Have to agree Heat Treat is actually more important than maybe the type of steel. Both are important , but it's like a Chef taking a fine cut of beef and cooking it until tough and flavorless..Love my Hultafors GK, both of them.
falcon1487 Yup. And sometimes it's as if the Chef took it out from the oven too early making it raw, tough and brittle ;) Thanks for watching.
As a knife maker I believe that the cause is not bad heat treatment, but NO heat treatment at all.Many people have no concept of heat treatment/tempering. Even popular survival instructors as well. I was watching one of Dave Canterbury's videos about a $2 survival knife made out of a file. He proceeded to grind a short thick basically useless bevel on it.Powered through some feathering and called it good. When I made a comment about how the concept was good, but the execution not so much, and how it should be modified (More for the viewers of his videos to avoid injuries) he promptly deleted my comment.Files are good steel,but super hard and can break like glass and as such should be tempered back to rockwell 57-58, which can be done by shoving it in the oven for an hour between 400-500 Fahrenheit. When you buying an unknown origin knife,it's worth to carry a small metal file with you and when you test it on the edge it should not bite into the metal. It should kind of slide on it. Unrelated question. How old were you when you moved to England?
meatclone 'Power through feathering' is a very appropriate description of what I see most people do with their knives and a piece of wood when they first get to carve something :)
I only moved a few years ago. Well, let's say several years ago and I was 23/24.
Excellent video Simon - I have tried and failed to find out what carbon steel Hultafors use, so thank you :-)
A basic blade steel with a good heat treat will beat a premium steel with a bad heat treat every time.
My pleasure :) To be honest I don't understand why they won't just put that up with the knife specs. Seems like it's now a secret after all. That said, they're the star so I guess they're allowed to be a bit fussy sometimes ;)
Simon's Discoveries I think "Japanese high carbon steel" is more likely to impress the steel snobs :-)
nicestknives Oh, I never thought of that. Apparently, I'm not very good at selling things. May well be true lol
Some steels just don't like cold. I have a set of impact sockets. They were cheap and they are simply unbreakable under normal conditions. But one day when it was below 0 degrees F. outside I had to change a tire and the socket shattered like glass. I face planted into the fender and it hurt. The steel is great, the temper perfect, but when it gets cold it's useless. I guess that's just the property of some steels. Aside from the one socket that shattered, I still use all of the others and I've had them for over 30 years now.
Great video Szymon. You are so right about heat treat. It can make or break a knife. Look at the 420hc that Buck and Gerber use. On paper it's nothing special. But their heat treat really makes that steel shine.
Thanks. ***** mentioned that 420HC by Buck as well and that's something I personally have had some experience with. The problem is, I've never used any other 420HC knife so I have no clue how bad the bad ones are in this case :)
I haven’t had good 420HC except from Buck.
hello from new york city . great videos. your my go to guy when it comes to camping and tools. got me the gk because of you .living in the us there not a lot of info on knifes like this. your videos help alot !!!
I'm glad I can help. Thanks you :)
JR Fernandez If you are looking for some American knife reviewers, you should check out:
feral woodcrafter
High carbon steel love
Wealljuggleknives
Gideons tactical
These guys give pretty good reviews. Very informative.
Yes Simon I guess they are quite new. I am trying to order them to test zhem as they looks really like the improved version of our lovely GKs. OK1 looks to me like almost ideal knife (depends to price) for all outdoor activities. Improvement is in rust proof steel, grinding top spin to be matched for work with fire starter and even shied has space for fire steel itself... Good luck and Subscribing! ;) MS
Thank you. I subbed too.
Interesting information. I'm about to make a big order of knives, so I'll ask for extra heat treatment after seeing this video
Haha, many thanks for that vid! I have the Heavy Duty GK too and I can confirm it is workhorse for dirty job! It survived things I never believed before. I am laughing because I bought my GK for $8 from dealer about 5 mins from me ;) Did you tested Hultafors OK1 or OK4 please?
Hi. Actually, I didn't even know such knives like OK1 and OK4 existed :) They look nice. Thanks for letting me know.
Hi Simon, the OK1 and OK4 are the bushcraft versions of the GK and HVK GH, more expensive but in my opinion the perfect compromise between price and features...
Plain carbon steels at around 0.7-0.8%C are amazingly tough and take an incredibly sharp edge if heat treated right.
I just subscribed. Thanks for the work you've done. I think that one of the things that has been left out of much of the Bush crafting videos is the relationship to the woods. it's often couched as man against nature rather than man is part of nature. There's a certain amount of quiet that's needed.
Steve Brettell Very true. Thak you. I subscribed back.
Am I right, you are not in the United States? Around here people seem to just be rediscovering simple bushcraft. We called it pioneering.
Unfortunately, they don't have good instruction in many cases. They weren't Boy Scouts. As children they didn't go in the woods and hunt. They are learning from people on the Internet you are learning from them and sort of making it up as they go. In many cases this works. In some, it's dangerous. It's certainly fun to see people getting excited.
Steve Brettell You're right, I'm originally from Poland but living in England.
I just got the William Rodgers Bushcraft from Blue Mtn. Forge. It's hardened to 57-59. William Collins told me O1 won't hold until 61. He takes his to 63. He ranks his O1 above VG10.
Are you having the same issues with it? I don't know how hard mine is. I'm not even sure if hardness is the main problem here. Apparently, sometimes wrong heat treat can cause oversized grains and I'm told that's not a good thing either.
I'm sure it's a great steel when heat treated correctly. I've never used VG10 but I've seen it tested and it wasn't too impressive considering how much it usually costs.
So my source was correct, it was SK5, but can you please confirm as well if Hultafors outsource their manufacturing from Taiwan? Thanks
Yes, I think that is one reason these knives are generally cheaper than Moras. This was the case when I was shooting this video some time ago.
Great vid, great channel
Thank you.
That's why I only buy factory blades from well established brands. If a new company wants to establish itself they really have to come out with aggressive pricing until they are proven. But some small knife makers / new companies want to start up and claim they are "premium" and charge a lot of money. They're not getting my money.
Nice Simon
+Joshuah “Wildman” Moran Thanks :)
Hultafors knives they are so strong :)
Are the angles the same on those two knives you noted had chipping/rolling issues?
Cliff Stamp Probably not. But those are already home-made, modified and tested in different grind angles. Nothing helps. What's more, they seem to have week spots, meaning the blade isn't even tempered uniformly. Really bad job.
Simon's Discoveries Unfortunate, but it happens. If it is consistent after several sharpenings there is often little you can do.Appreciate the details in the videos.
Myślę, że jak ktoś się zna robocie, to nawet badziewnym nożem sobie poradzi w lesie, choćby mu się tępił na brzozie i na obieraniu jabłka :) Ileż ja się nasłuchałem i naczytałem o moim KS wz.98. Jakie to dno. Jaka stal. Że do niczego się nie nadaje itp. Łażę z nim po górach i różnych krzakach już 15 lat. Jest nieco zdezelowany, ale rąbie gałęzie, struga patyki, otwiera konserwy, kroi chleb i pomidory, a ostatnio nim nawet kopałem dół pod swedish torch. Nie zawiódł. Wiem, że jest wiele noży sto razy lepszych i bardziej dopasowanych do bushcraftu i outdooru, ale kiedyś chodziło się z finką harcerską (to nie były prawdziwe finki) z plastikową rękojeścią (często pękała). I (zgroza) to był jedyny nóż. Bez drugiej mory, czy scyzoryka victorinoxa. Budowaliśmy szałasy, robiliśmy posiłek...
Mam jeszcze taką "finkę" z plastikową rękojeścią. I też mi pękła :D
I had a puukko made in the States that no matter what, it would not sharpen! We put it on a Worksharp after multiple hand stones , steel and ceramics. No go!..,....I sent it back, the maker not honoring a refund, I paid postage and just wanted it out of my life 😂 Heat treat ! Grizz 🐻
what is the stainless steel they use, i love it?
I believe it is 420
+spundj mc The stainless they use is AUS-8
what are your thoughts on the eka axeblade?
Pascal Marti Hi. I've never had one so can't say much about it, I'm afraid.
Exactly!! heat-treat is the issue, I get sick of hearing people dog Buck and Gerber because they use 420HC. Gerber's USA MADE 420 is tough stuff and there are plenty of stress test on UA-cam proving so. Regardless one might fail because a bad heat treat and presto that company gets a bad rumor going just because a knife broke on camera. Schrade makes many knives which come from China, I own 2 of them the schf51&52 and 1 the Schf 42 from Taiwan all 3 kick butt and have taken plenty of hits so far so good. I say if ya buy a known name brand and it chips or breaks send it back because it's a bad heat treat not the steel.
+Airik1111 Agree. Most likely. Mora knives break too BTW. Technically, you can break any knife if you try hard enough. That shouldn't really be the point because some of those knives are heat treated to do different tasks and don't have to be unbreakable. Hunting knives, for example, are supposed to hold an edge longer, which tends to make them more brittle. It shouldn't matter though since most hunters don't ever need to baton their knives :)
Me and another lad where just speaking about this the other day... I know it's from Japan and mora is Swedish 1095 but I dnt know what Japanese steel Hultafor's uses but I know my GK is a bitch to reprofile hard stuff for sure
What do you use to reprofile it and how do you want to reprofile it? I always get rid of that nasty secondary bevel on a hard water-stone. Works pretty well but that's not much steel to remove.
I used it as my Guinea pig for my belt sander... I liked it but it was my cheapest knife and I figured Id just make it nicer but I didnt lol it's kinda convexed now but sharper than bloody hell now. But I used a few things here and there but I want my scandi back lol
John Kenneally Well, I convex my blades on purpose. Makes them stronger :)
Yeah. I do like some of my blades vexed but I do more carving and whittling than Chopping and skinning deboning so I love my scandis... You shld take the scales off those blades that aren't holding their edge and reheat treat them... Then put the scales or new ones back on. There are tons of vids on here to show you how to. If sending them back for new ones are out of the question.
Simon's Discoveries
John Kenneally I think it might just be a bit too late for sending the bushcrafter back. It's been almost a year. The problem is, I practically live in two different places and have to split my collection between the, which often means I have no access to some of my tools for a long time. And when I finally do test them properly, it may be too late to complain.
The guy fro that renaissance fair is impossible to track down. I only met him once and that's it.
I might try retreating them at some point, although, it's probably a bit more difficult than it seems. If it wasn't, the guys I got the knives from would've don it right ;)
On the upside, they are still good-looking 'wall-hangers' lol
lol "just because they make knives doesn't mean they know what there doing"
:) It's true though.
Simon's Discoveries With tools also, I'm afraid.
Simon's Discoveries I began making knives about a year and half back but I don't offer them forsale for this reason. I haven't got my heat treat down yet.
Gary Hull I wish the knife-makers I got those knives from also had the decency to admit what they can and cannot do :)
one question: are you polish?
Yes I'm Polish
Okay thanks. I would say you that I searched video on the "Puukko" of the Fiskars, but I've just found video in Russian! Can you do a review of it? thanks so much, bye
I'll look it up and think about it. Thanks.
thank you to think about my idea! bye.
Comparing SK-5 to common carbon steel is misleading. Chemical composition of this alloy is much more complicated. Get your facts straight.
+RaphaelAtherill Really? Much more complicated than what exactly? And how did you measure that complexity?
Look, here you've got 1075 steel ingredients in %:
Carbon 0.7 - 0.8
Manganese 0.4 - 0.7
Phosphorus 0.04 max
Sulphur 0.05 max
While at first glance it seems similar to SK-5, you should notice that it lacks chromium, nickel, copper, silica, has significantly lower carbon percentage and has less strict sulfur limit. Maybe raw numbers don't seem like much but in metalurgy sometimes even tenth of a percent makes the difference.
Perhaps the word "complicated" wasn't suitable after all. I just couldn't help but notice that these are different steels and they should not be compared on par.
RaphaelAtherill This is an old video but if memory serves right, I'm pretty sure I never said they were identical. I only said they're similar, with roughly the same carbon content (and their C % do overlap sometimes). Besides, my point was - heat treat is far more important than chemical composition. Mind you, I also compare sk-5 to o1 and NC-6, which look even better in the charts but in those knives, with that particular heat treat, just suck.
Agreed.