I would even take Barbara and Damian out. It's call batfam for a reason, they are actually close families to Bruce, basically Bruce's father and children. Barbara got her own family with James Gordan, they are close friends of the family but not exactly THE family. And I hate Damian plus there's 3 robin, it's enough.
@@fiyfrost I think the barbara is fair but she’s just been associated with bruce since like the 60s and Damian is the blood son, he’s gotta be there 😭. He’s at least getting growth
I do think the larger Batfamily can work it’s just writers don’t let these Batman related characters be anywhere but Batman stories for example if you want a larger Batfamily say (Bruce Selina, Four Robins,3 Batgirls Duke and Batwoman) it’s an easy fix. Give Kate her own stories in a different NJ city other than Gotham, keep Dick in bloodhaven, keep Damian with the Titans, keep Tim with Young Justice. That leaves Bruce,Jason, Steph, Duke and Cass since Barbra is Oracle or be in Bludhaven with Dick and Duke protects Gotham in the daytime so that leaves 4 members to protect it Gotham during night it’s that simple and it’s not ridiculous that this city still has crime at night.
The problem with giving these characters their own stories is the lack of readers they'd likely have. I mentioned the problem with compelling nature's and I personally don't think many of them have what it takes.
@@tyrellmultimedia true the only one who could probably hold their own title are Jason and Dick but that why the other characters should be apart of teams
@@WeebGuru6Duke is in the Dark Multiverse, last I checked, so he's literally an outsider but he'd be a cooler member of the Outsiders team. Batwing and Batwoman are usually doing their own thing so they're harmless reserve characters for splash panels.
To me, the core Bat-Family will always be: Batman Alfred Dick Barb Jason Tim Damian And if you count him, Terry as the Future Batman Characters with come and go, but these are the core members
@@thedaltoid0266 Terry is cool for the show. But for actual comics Damian adds a great dynamic to Bruce's character, people just can't accept modern storytelling
the issues with the Batfamily can be resolved by seperating it into three groups: inner, middle and outer. Inner Batfamily is Batmam, Alfred, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian, and Barbara Gordon as Oracle Middle Batfamily is Azrael, Catwoman, Spoiler, Kate Kane, Duke Thomas and Ace. Outer Batfamily is everyone else The Batfamily works best as a small group of Batman's innermost circle. everyone else can frankly be treated as an ally of the crusade Edit: to explain some of my picks. the Inner Batfamily is characters who have been integral parts of Bruce's innermost circle for decades. I kept it to the Robins, Barbara and Alfred since they've been Bruce's longest-running, most loyal, and most indispensible allies. A batman story without Nightwing, or Barbara, or Alfred, feels weird unless it provides a reason why they aren't present. the middle Batfamily are characters who I'm aware of as having been important several times. Spoiler is a former Robin. Azrael is considered as Batman's possible successor several times. Catwoman is a villain turned love interest (being an ex-villain keeps her from being inner batfam) Kate, Duke, and Ace are all popular, but aren't as essential to the mythos as Barbara, TIm or Alfred. I didn't include Jim Gordon since, in my mind, he works best as Batman's ambassador/contact in the GCPD, rather than a full-on part of the Batfamily
@@tyrellmultimedia Disagree, Superman has more sales than the both of them. He’s an international icon just like they are. Saying that he’s not comp at all is insane. I’m not arguing that Batman & Spider-Man aren’t top 2, it’s just that whole ‘no one comes close to them’ part that I’m contesting
I think that the main problem is the lack of diverse skills more than anything else. All the members nowadays are a variation of the same concept: a martial artist with various degrees of detective skills. And the members that had different skills now are dead, changed or simply not used. Alfred was more of a comic relief/support character and now he's dead. Harold Allnut was the tech guy that gave Batman all his gadgets and now he's dead and apparently Bruce is a tech genius (which doesn't make any sense). Barbara as Oracle gave Batman constant tech support but now she returned to be just another good fighter. Leslie Thompkins was the medic and now nobody uses her. Man even Azrael that was just a straight up fighter with 0 detective skills got sidelined when he's basically the better version of Red Hood. As for Harley Quinn she should be put in Arkham, no way she got a free jail card just because she hangs around Bats now, Gordon will never let that slide.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Not if they're high tech. The point of the message is that Batman didn't have the knowledge necessary to build high tech gadgets (that's why i brought up Harold Allnut in that section) not gadgets in general. Gadgets like batarangs, grappling hooks with ropes or any kind of chemical product used for detective work can be crafted or bought without a problem, i have absolutely no problem with that. My issue is that Batman has been turned into some sort of automatic engineer that can build world-ending A.I.s when for the great majority of his existence he needed people like Harold or Hiro Okamura to craft any kind of high tech gadget
@@niccoloproia3678 Batman is smart he doesn't need harrold nut or whatever you call him. Most of Batman's inventions involve him taking inspirations from failed or developmental wayne tech and customizing them to his needs. Any help he needs he'll get it from Lucious Fox. But he mostly makes the stuff himself. He travelled around the world specifically to gain knowledge that would help him fight crime.
@@Rengokuo4o6 To respond to your points in order: - i'm not questioning Batman's intelligence but being smart doesn't mean you're knowledgeable in all fields of knowledge. I'll explain myself with other characters from the Batman mythos: Professor Hugo Strange is surely one of DC's greatest minds when it comes to psychology and psychiatry, does it make him good when it comes to Finance or Economy? Nope, Penguin on the other hand is an expert in Economy but i would never take psychological advice from him. I named 2 different people that Batman needed for their technological expertise: Harold Allnut and Hiro Okamura (the third Toyman that was introduced by Jeph Loeb on Superman Vol.2 #177 and that was recruited by Batman in Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman run). - Most of Batman's gadgets come from Wayne Enterprises that's for sure but as fully functional devices. Customizing a high-tech contraption by putting a bat-shaped symbol on it isn't the same as building it, according to your definition then Donald Trump must have designed the Trump Tower all by himself since he put his name on the building. - surely Lucius can help but not as an engineer, Lucius is the CEO of Wayne Enterprises therefore he presides over the strategy and management of Bruce's company. He helps Bruce by getting him the gadgets and resources he needs without compromising Bruce's vigilante identity. There are some alternative realities in which Lucius is an actual engineer (like Batman Earth One) but we're talking about mainline comics. - i think i proved this point wrong with the previous sections - about the "He travelled around the world specifically to gain knowledge that would help him fight crime" let me quote "The Legend of the Batman: Who He Is and How He Came to Be" (a 2 page introduction for Batman Hush written by Jeph Loeb and drawn by Jim Lee): "Lising his family's wealth, Master Bruce sought out the world's greatest minds in CRIMINOLOGY, MARTIAL ARTS, and the CRAFT OF DETECTING". Now i ask you were it was established that Bruce ever had any kind of formation on engineering during his travels around the world?
@@niccoloproia3678 Batman was trained by a russian engineer known as Sergey in engineering and gadgetry. That's how he got his knowledge from. Also using blueprints of wayne tech, making them work for him is not just putting a batsticker on it. WTF? They are a groundwork for his innovation so he doesn't start from scratch. What would even stop him from taking online classes and learning this shit especially in our modern world where information is readily available on his fingertips even as Batman?
I think my ideal version of the Bat family is Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Tim as robin, Barbra as oracle and Cassandra Cain as batgirl. Jason is alive, but it’s when he only just became active as red hood. Bruce is aware of him but doesn’t know his identity. I think any more than this is honestly overkill, and like you said, it feels more like a privatised military than an actually family
I think DC should make a TV series about the Bat-Family it's shocking that DC doesn't make a TV series about them and focus on all the relationship between Batman and everyone else in different seasons. Batman, Robin/Dick Grayson, Batgirl/Barbara Gordon in season one; Batman and Robin/Jason Todd season two; Batman, Robin/Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain in season three; Batman, Robin/Damian Wayne, Batgirl/Stephanie Brown in season four; and Batman, Batwoman, Batwing, Catwoman in season five.
Considering they're non-powered and have to cover all of Gotham and Bludhaven, I actually think it makes sense for the Batfamily to be really big to cover the most ground. Batman can jump in when a big villain shows up, the rest have a rota and can sub in when someone gets injured
I agree cuz Gotham is a big place like the size of New York so the Bat Family having like almost 9 to 10 members does make sense and especially like you said they're all non-powered heroes except for Duke Thomas/The Signal who's the only metahuman with powers in the Bat Family.
I feel like DC needs to do a better job of distinguishing whose part of the core family, extended family (Gotham Knights) and The Network (we have your number if we need you) For me The Family: Alfred Bruce Dick Babs Tim Cassie MAYBE Selina (only if they're willing to commit) Ace is there but in the same capacity as in Batman Beyond. He generally guard the home front and keeps Alfred company but can be included in specific missions. Then the Gotham Knights which is a select list of extended family/friends Spoiler Huntress Azrael Red Hood Harley The Outsiders Etc And the Network is just everyone else in Gotham and most of them don't even know "The Network" is a thing
Not only are there too many people, you could even kill Jason again. What a boring character. Also, whatever happened to just people operating in Gotham, and not in a bat family sense, just a crime fighter sense?
I see it in eras Era 1: batman and robin batgirl Era 2: Batman, nightwing, jason batgirl Era 3:Batman, nightwing, tim drake, spoiler, oracle, red hood Era 4:Batman, nightwing, red hood, red robin, damien, oracle, spoiler, Cassandra cain. They need to simplify it. Also most of these members do their own thing out of gotham like batwoman team
@@thegloveofficial3838 Here’s My Main Eras from Pre-Crisis-Post Crisis: Era 0: Batman & Alfred Era 1: Batman, Robin (Dick), Alfred Era 2: Batman, Robin (Dick), Alfred, Batgirl (Barbara) Era 3: Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl (Barbara), Alfred, Robin (Jason) Era 4: Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Alfred, Robin (Tim), Batgirl (Cassandra) Era 5: Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Alfred, Robin (Tim), Batgirl (Cassandra), Spoiler, Huntress, Azerial Era 6: Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Red Robin, Robin (Damian), Batgirl (Stephanie), Black Bat (Cassandra), Alfred
@@thegloveofficial3838 To me yes, But for me the ideal Bat-Family is Era 4. It has the Old versions of Sidekicks and the new ones perfect aligned and it’s not to bloated. Also, it’s the best characters of the Bat-family all together. Barbra and Dick act as mentor/older siblings to the new Robin and Batgirl. Not to mention characters like Huntress don’t align with the Moral and Spoiler is reckless.
It should just be Alfred, the 4 Robins, Barb, Cassandra, Catwoman, and Ace. Then in the future they should add Helena, and Terry. They shouldn’t add more than this.
I was considering this for a DC universe which characters I’d keep around from the Batfamily, as despite being apart of the internet who prefers their existence I think they've let it get too much. This is what I’ve reduced it to: - Batman - Nightwing (Dick) - Robin (Tim) - Batwoman (Kate) - Batgirl/Oracle (Barbara) I'm definitely going the Red Hood story route for my vision, but I don’t see him being apart of the main family for a while. Also I’d probably use Spoiler, but not on the main lineup. Edit: Almost forgot Alfred.
The bat family does needs to be reduced down. 1) Batman 2) Batwoman - Kate Kane 3) Robin - (Damian Wayne, Tim Drake) 4) Batgirl - (Cassandra Cain, Barbara Gordon) 5) Nightwing - Dick Grayson 6) Red Hood - Jason Todd 7) Alfred Are the top seven I would keep.
I agree with you but I think it needs to be smaller imo. 1. Batman 2. Alfred 3. Nightwing 4. Oracle 5. Robin (Tim) 6. Batgirl (Cassandra) Left to me Jason wouldn’t be alive, but going based of Under the Red Hood and Lost Days, He shouldn’t be apart of the family because his moral code doesn’t align with Batman. Same for Damian even though his grown as a character. Kate Kane is a supporting character to me. If I were to replace Batwoman with someone else it would be Lesile Thompkins because of her role In Bruce’s upbringing.
Yes exactly. I feel the same way because The Signal is in a unique position he's a daylight hero and a metahuman that usually work best in the daytime.
I never really had any problems with the Bat-Family. And the ever growing size of it definitely never bothered me, because of the way I viewed bats as a whole. I want to start by stating/admitting that I’m definitely no expert on bats so what I say is not rooted in science or facts. In most media (and even real life examples), a lot of bats tend to be more social, traveling in groups. While there are definitely plenty examples of some bats being strong loners, I’ve rarely seen more examples of loner bats than colonies of bats. As for how this weird piece of trivia relates to Batman… bats often form large groups so why wouldn’t Batman? I believe that the definitive version of Batman is a bat who was a part of a small colony, but tragically lost his and he then became a loner so that he wouldn’t feel the hurt from losing anyone again. However, after a few other bats come to fly with him, his walls slowly crumble, and as time goes by more bats gather to him and a new colony is created around him. To make a long story short, Batman’s journey to me is like a bat becoming a loner, after losing one colony, only to gain a new colony that reminds him of the beauty of connections.
I'd say I agree as once it get's to the point where you can't list everyone you know it's too much. Everyone knows the core members like Alfred, Nightwing, Barbara, Jason, Tim, Damian, Catwoman, and Terry. Cassandra, Signal, Batwoman, Stephenie, Huntress, Carrie, Batwing, and Azrael are not as well known to mainstream audiences so most readers don't recognize them as often. Heck even I barely remember characters like Gotham girl, Harper Row, Tim Fox or Hawkfire not to mention that depending on the story Harley Quinn or Clayface may or may not even be members depending on the interpetation. It's hard to keep up with and at times it feels like even DC themselves doesn't know who is and isn't a member.
The problem is that Batman is great at everything to the point he basically has no weakness which makes his other members in his family not special. So an idea can be to maybe have their skills really stand out so that way Batman needs their help more. I know for us who love Batman it’s hard to see people who are just as skilled but it makes it more realistic. None of us are great at everything and we all learn from others. Not trying to get deep but I think it would make for good story writing
A rebuttal of the notion that having 15 Batman level hero’s in one city,and yet crime is ever rampant. Hero’s creating their own villains, I think other stories touched on that but I’m not sure
It's true, tho. An evergrowing bloated batfamily + other vigilantes in Gotham and the city is still a shithole. But that's more to do with the status quo.
I personally think a large Bat-Family can work Like Year 1 its just Bruce and Alfred Then by idk Year 20 he has like 20 members all protecting Gotham and by the end of Bruce time as batman Gotham is finally safe
The thing is, they can’t get rid of a lot of them. For example: they can’t get rid of Batwing because they don’t want a PR nightmare from the media saying they got rid of black Batman even though the media doesn’t know who he is.
All I think the Bat family needs is Bruce, Alfred, 4 Robins, Barbara, maybe Catwoman if you're doing a love interest thing and Bat-Cow. You can't have the Bat family without Bat-Cow. Truly one of the characters of all time.
I think it’s a double edged sword because they are a family of heroes with no powers which is why they need each other sometimes but it becomes confusing when they all have the skill of great martial artist and no crime gets stopped in terms of crime rate in Gotham. However, I am a die hard fan of the bat family 🤷🏾♂️
Batman, Alfred, Dick, Barbara, Jason, Tim, Cassandra, and Terry in the future. Nobody else. Damian is lame, Tim should be the last Robin. There should never be more than 4-5 members at a time (Not including Alfred and Bruce). The Bat-Family is definitely too large at this point.
I honestly always forget that BlueBird is a character of the Bat-Family, like, Ghostmaker, Bluebird, The Signal( Duke Thomas ) , Batwing, Jace Fox (Batman), and Huntress ( Helena Bertinelli ), Harley Quinn, and more ( I don't know if I missed anybody ), but those character that I just named are all useless and don't provide anything significant to the Bat-Family as a whole, like the original Batwing decided to stop being Batwing so he could go back to their country if I am not mistaken.
understandble but i feel there's still more use for Bluebird, The Signal and Batwing at the most. Huntress I felt never made sense to be apart of the bat family.
@@eriksnation231 BlueBird and The Signal are both characters that can easily be forgotten about and expanding more with those two characters isn't needed to be honest.
Short answer: *YEEEEEESSSSS JESUS CHRIST IT WAS ALREADY TOO MANY AFTER CASSANDRA KANE!!!!!!!!!* *STOOOOOOP IIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!* *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!*
I think all of those characters could exist, i just dont enjoy too many characters being around Batman himself, i think it makes his stories look kinda goofy. The idea of a kid or teenager sidecick already feels kinda unserious but it works, but when you add +10 characters make Bruce feel insuficient by his own. I think the DC trinity works a little better without sideckicks/derived characters. Also i loved the word "batallion" lol
I’m causal bat watcher, but for the core members I always thought it was: Batman, Robin(Damien), Nightwing, Batgirl/Oracle, Red Hood, Alfred and Tim. Perfect 7, Tim should take up the day shifts, I know Singal is a thing but…they never do much with him, same with Batwoman…
Even in advanced age such as 70 years old, Batman should still be in elite physical condition given his training and knowledge of herbs as well as his wealth granting access to both...!
I think the Bat-Family should stay relatively small (Batman, Alfred, The Robins, Batgirls, and MAYBE Catwoman). Even then, it’s a little big, but characters will fluctuate. After that I think they should branch out into Bat-Adjacent teams, like the Outsiders or Birds of Prey. Heck, you could make an entirely new team like “GOTHAM FORCE” or something like that
I think it’s time we finally got back to having one Robin, one Batgirl, having Barbara be Oracle, Jason either stays away from being part of the family or just goes back to being dead. As for the rest they should be regulated to supporting cast. That includes characters like Huntress, Azarial, Spoiler, and potentially Damian because Tim was done dirty.
Exactly there are way to many of them and so many of them are pointless in my opinion the only ones should be: Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Red hood, Batgirl, Red Robin, Robin
Here's my dream batfamily scenario (None of this is based off of canon, just how I think every character could thrive) Bat-Family: Batman Alfred Dick Grayson (Often leading Titans) Jason Todd (Mostly with The Outlaws) Damian Wayne Tim Drake (Red robin, often with Titans) Barbra Gordon (Oracle, consistently working with Titans and Bat-family evenly) Cassandra Cain (Batgirl) I think there is a lot of potential with an older bruce wayne raising Cassandra alongside Damian in Wayne Tower/Batcave. They both have fucked up mommy issues and can bond over that. With most of the bat-family elsewhere, good stories can be told. Dick is either working with Barbra in Bludhaven or working with the Titans (Red Robin (Tim Drake), Starfire, Flash (Wally West), Beast Boy, Cyborg, Raven, Wonder Girl (Donna Troy), Aqualad (Kaldur-Ahm), Miss Martian, Superboy, Blue Beetle), and Red Hood going on adventures with The Outlaws (Artemis, Arsenal, Bizarro, Crush) I think these situations would give each of these characters a lot of room for great storytelling.
It's too crowded, and although I think Batman does NEED a family, it shouldn't be that large. 5 members, tops, because it gets watered down reak quickly, every member you add is a a downgrade to the group in general, it's almost the Legion of Superheroes at this point
I'm so damn happy somebody FINALLY said it! I've been saying this for a while. It's just gotten ridiculous at this point. The fact that the superman family is SMALLER than the batfamily is crazy to me. In my opinion the bat-fam should include, Batman, Alfred, Dick, Barb, Tim, maybe Damien, and Ace. (Unpopular opinion but I think Jason should've stayed an antagonist to batman)
Why is that crazy? Batman is on a planet with over 8 billion other humans. Krypton was destroyed and SuperMan loses so much if there are a million other krypton’s around, not to mention it would be wild for the survivors to largely end up on earth.
Personally, I believe the family is too big, but it can most definitely work. For it to work, I think the Batfamily should be hugely spread out. I'd want the Batfamily to work outside of Gotham, like Dick. I'd believe that the people who should be in Gotham are Batman, Robin (Damien), Barbra, Alfred, Signal, and Red Hood. As they have the most connections to Gotham. They need to learn more as well or have a purpose in Gotham. Jason stays for Crime Alley. Those who should stay out of Gotham, Nightwing, Red Robin, Batwoman, Huntress, Blackbat, Batgirl, and almost the entire family. (Personally, I believe Luke Fox and others that aren't fully developed as well are retired.) Nightwing is in Blud, Red Robin is traveling the world like a spy, Batwoman is in a neighboring city, Huntress goes wherever, Blackbat is in South Korea, Batgirl a bit of a wonderer to me so I'm not 100% where'd she be stationed but it'd be outside Gotham. They can visit Gotham to help, but they're not really there besides visits in crisis and for hanging out for family. For more obscure family members like Carrie and Terry, they are future characters so they're in Gotham. The Batfamily is huge and the more obscure family members should be retired and done with that life.
I think Jason should be the Punisher of the DC, keep him a killer and make it so that he and Bruce NEVER work together, like maybe in a Nightwing book you can have the two team up in truely desperate situations but mostly just have Red Hood as his own guy
@isaacalexander5286. He’s a detective first and foremost, Not a military man. I say his own organized crime fighting unites, ala fbi which he started before the justice league came together. Truth be told it makes sense to a degree, as it shows his human side more in he can’t do it all himself in covering all The universe, the planet running around the world and his most important town and the biggest issue for him is fighting large scale assassins. Organizations like the court of owls and the larger parliament and the society or league of assassins who would rivals against each other and then leviathan all too much for one character or one small team when his opponents are larger then international depending how wild the writers get. If he keeps it to devisions or branches with clear people in charge it’ll be fine there just need to be clear definition.
Short Answer: Yes. But DC is handling them is a good way, not perfect but good enough way. The core Batfamily in current comics seem to be Batman, 4 Robins, Oracle, 2 Batgirls and Duke. (R.I.P Alfred) Jason's character is pretty inconsistent recent years, they keep making him the black sheep of the family and then suddenly he's welcome to have dinner with them? I would also add Catwoman but it seems she's still seprate which is a shame because in my opinion she should be apart of them now. The more extended Gotham Vigilantes are Bluebird, Batwing and Azreal which should stay that way. They shouldn't be welcomed to any family dinners, they're seprate vigilantes who got permission from Batman to also protect Gotham, they're home. Similar to Red Hood Hill comic where Jason stayed in a Gotham neighbourhood for a while and helped the locals who were fighting crime to protect their homes. I would give that treatment to Duke, sorry but I don't really like him being apart of the core family, ofcourse he and other vigilantes can have friendships with them but not apart of the main family. Edit: People also keep using that Batfamily image with Harley Quinn and like, Harley has never and will never join the Batfamily. That is a promotional image for the comics, Joker is literally ON IT on the left side. The outfit Damian is wearing, he never did in comics, they were still probably deciding on the design for his outfit in his solo book so they just slapped on a concept one. Huntress was also never apart of Batfamily, she was actually treated badly by Batman during No Man's Land.
I pretty much agree. One other thing I really like the idea of a Batman Beyond with Terry McGinnis continuing the Batman mantle in Bruce's old age. Having a such large family makes it hard to justify. Even in the original show where there was just Dick, Barbara and Tim they had to make Barbara the GCPD Commissioner (taking after her father), retire Tim, and essentially write Dick out. If I had to cut the family down I'd keep, Dick, Jason, Barbara, Tim, and Damian. Then maybe the future you can have Dick retire, become the mayor Bludhaven, pass down the Nightwing mantle and the safety of Bludhaven to Damian, Jason leaves travel the country, Barbara again becomes the GCPD Commissioner, and Tim settles down to live a normal life with a wife and kids. Then you can introduce Terry as crime returns to Gotham and have that Batman Beyond storyline. If you can also reintroduce a Helena Wayne Batwoman as Terry's dynamic duo.
Yes. The Batfamily should only be Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Cassandra, and a possibility of Duke Thomas due to his mysterious father and the stories to come from it.
If it was up to me as a show runner or creative director for any kind of Batman project, my roster would consist of Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Barbara, Jason, Cassandra and Selina (with Terry and/or Damien coming in to serve as the Batman Beyond). No disrespect to any of the others, I do like a lot of these characters conceptually, I simply think those 7-9 characters are the ones I am most interested in and think make for some interesting dynamics and character arcs. I think it’s important that Bruce has this family. To me it’s literally Bruce’s reward for being Batman. It comes full circle that this man who had to grow up so alone, working so hard to protect his city and sometimes the world, trying his best to make it so no one ever has to feel alone or afraid comes to gain a family full of those he has guided and inspired to also fight for justice. I really like the DCAU interpretation of Batman, especially the early BTAS seasons, Justice League and Beyond, but I hate any future where this family is left broken and Bruce is left alone. He’s brought right back to square one. It renders his tale a tragedy, and I can get behind that sometimes, but I’d much rather it be a triumph. Depending on the timeline, you can occasionally reference Tim, Steph, Kate, or even Harley to name a few, some of them having once been part of the family and have either joined with other teams, moved away to operate on their own, moved on to either to operate without their costumes or just full on retiring after a certain point.
I feel like any kind of hero family, 6-7 pages max, if more, they just get lost in the background. So my pick would be Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, Cass. With Barbara and maybe Steph as supporting members, but not the core family because they have their own family and don't really need a place in Bruce's family. There can be very close friends of the family to support them, like Lucius Fox, Dr. Thompkins, James Gordan, etc., but they wouldn't be a Batfam members either.
I feel like there needs to be some sort of grouping or established hierarchy for gotham heros and vigilantes like how goons, clube, gangs, mafias, etc, are separated. The Bat-family (you know them) The Affiliated (people who work with the Bat-family and others) Long rangers (dont want to work or affiliate wity batfam but still wont kill, mother panic maybe or ragman, even huntress maybe) Lone gunmen (dont want to deal or work with the family or anyone and use deadly force, batwoman, simon dark and jason todd come to mind) Untapped solos (characters being to affiliated or Batfam who could work best in reboot situation, duke tomas for example, change his costume design and give him is own story outside the family, no connection at first)
I think its fine to have lots of members, but also consequences. That means maybe some get permanently injured, trauma, or others quit, etc. You can have a larger cast if you kill off some members, but that would require writers to allow bad things to happen to the characters or write grief well.
As much as I like a good chunk of the Batfamily, I have to agree, there are too many members. You can make this argument for all the "families" of the major DC superheroes. Here's a few: Look over at Superman's family: there is him, Lois, Jon, Conner, Supergirl, Jimmy, Super-Man of China, Krypto, Steel and his niece, Power Girl, the super-twins Clark adopted from Warworld. Or Flash's: Jay, Barry, Wally, Impulse, Kid Flash, Max Mercury, Jesse Quick, Flash of China, the Boom, Wally's kids: Jai, Irey, and Wade, Joan Garrick, Iris West, Linda Park. Wonder Woman's: Wonder Woman, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Yara Flor, Artemis, Hippolyta, Nubia, Steve Trevor, Wonder Woman's brother that everyone forgot. Even Green Arrow's is large: Green Arrow, Black Canary, Arsenal, Connor Hawke, Red Arrow, Speedy, Arrowette, Red Canary, Lian Harper. (I mostly tried to stick to characters that are currently used, these lists would obviously be longer if I named every character that's been a part of one of those families at some point.) The Marvel/Shazam family is my least favorite one. Everyone is just a reskins of Billy Batson. Only two of them need to be superheroes: Billy and someone else, the rest should be supporting characters. And with almost 10 human Green Lanterns, Green Lantern deserves a mention for overkilling it.
Yeah, the bigger the Bat-family gets, the less and less sanse the whole "GOTHAM IS A CESSPOOL OF UNENDING CRIME ITS GRIM AND DARK ALL THE TIME" thing makes. When there's like ten super genuises/combat prodogies/master detectives working overtime to put every crook in jail, it just feels weird that there's still a tidal wave of crime happening. Yes, yes, suspension of disbelief and all that, but come on, at some point it crosses from dramatic to straight up self-parody ridiculousness.
I’ll be honest when I think of the bat family I only think of : Batman,Nightwing, Robin(Tim), Batgirl(Barb), Red Hood, Damien(I hate him), Orphan, Azrael… of course Alfred and Lucious too but main talking about the combatants. I really never think of Huntress(love her), Catwoman, Betty, or Kathy immediately.
My ideal Bat-Family would be: Batman aka Bruce Wayne Alfred Lucius Nightwing aka Dick Grayson (Robin I) Red Hood aka Jason Todd (Robin II) Red Robin aka Tim Drake (Robin III) Spoiler aka Stephanie Brown (Robin IV and later Batgirl IV) Robin V aka Damian Wayne Batwoman aka Kate Kane Flamebird aka Betty Kane (Batgirl I) Oracle aka Barbara Gordon (Batgirl Il) Black Bat aka Cassandra Cane (Batgirl III) Batgirl V aka Carrie Kelly With Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Oracle, Alfred and Lucius in Gotham. Nightwing shifting beetwen protecting Bludhaven and leading the Titans. Red Robin, Black Bat and Spoiler being in Young Justice together. Batwoman and Flamebird can have their own respective cities like Chikago and Los Angeles to protect. Red Hood does his own thing going from place to place. Then from time to time whenever a situation like No Man's Land happens or there is a big gang war between Two Face, Penguin and the Joker we can have the whole gang coming together. No Batman Inc or Outsiders though those only complicate matters. Batman's only other team is the JL.
Nightwing does his own thing in another city. Oracle is a background character at this point. Red Hood should be like that cousin you only see on holidays. Bruce and Damian are the main duo. Tim Duke Cass and Steph could be a Gotham Knights team. Huntress Batwing and Batwoman can just not exist.
I always thought DC should do a “death of the family” reset where only Bruce, 4 robins, batwoman, and Barbara survive… I’d have Damien be a major part of the story where he does end up becoming the leader of the league of shadows and put bat woman in Europe… have most of Bruce’s relationships kind of ruined with the rest of the family for a couple risking decisions that do get some family members killed. Basically setting up the “Batman Beyond” future timeline so it can tie in perfectly. I do think the family is too big at this point and comics do need a big event not like a crisis
To me ,the core bat family will always be Batman Alfred Dick Barbara Jason Tim Damian Or sometimes Cass and Steph even batwoman but not the main member
As a related issue I get really depressed with all the emphasis placed on Killing Joke and Death in the Family. I don't need to see Barbara get paralyzed by the Joker again or Jason beaten to death with a crowbar again.
For me and as well based on other bat family interpretations Reduced yes, but not delete. Let them have something useful to stand out and to highlight them, but does not need to always be there Keep the 4 robins because spiritually they are brothers, but let them also operate in their respective teams, so they don't always have to be there, Dick with Titans, Todd with the outlaws, Tim with young justice, Damian being the main stay Barbs can just be oracle, while Cassandra operates as Batgirl (and kinda like bruce's adoptive daughter) while spoiler helps her out from time to time. Catwoman is a love interest so she stays So that is the core bat fam Now for the extend ones: Huntress does not need to pop up everytime, especially if its the version where she is bruce's child and she does her own thing without being associated with the bat fam that much Bat wing can be his technical support and just be on special missions in the field Batwoman, can just operate on a diff. City like she usually is Blue bird, not much of a fan of hers maybe like a random vigilante that just so happens to operate in gotham but not part of the family and butts heads with the bat fam. Duke/Signal has a lowkey superpower and is a dayshift vigilante so he got his own stuff to do.
Not to mention Batman Inc and the fact that technically every country in DC universe have its own Batman that we almost never see. The concept so underused it's just buffles me why they even bother to introduce it in the first place
I think some characters especially new ones should be substitutes for Robin, Nightwing and Batgirl, if they need time off, but otherwise no need for some of these.
Everyone but Harley quinn can stay, it makes no sense for her to be in the batfamily. But in my opinion, all of the batfamily were spectacular. But DC failed them, I mean they even failed tim drake (Still angry). Whether or not their lazy, or just find the main trio to be more popular.
I think it has and I don’t what do with them all, like I miss where it used to Batman on his own like in the 2004 Batman series before season 3 I even had a new member of the Bat family that is called the Bat king.
Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Red Robin, Robin, Catwoman, Batgirl, Black Bat, Batwoman, Batwing, and Huntress are all you really need in the BatFamily in terms of costumed heroes
I always took the main core batfamily to be Bruce, Alfred,Nightwing,Red Hood, Red Robin, Spoiler, Batgirl(Cassandra), Oracle and Damian with the rest of them (duke,Ghostmaker,kate kane etc) being the outer batfamily
11:20 I would say this is where the Batfamily stops. Huntress, Duke, Cass and Steph are all really well written and interesting characters when they do get spotlight that they deserve their spots imo. As for Kate, she's also so compelling but like you said the writers just don't have a clue with what to do with her(and everyone else but to her a great extent)
Stop right there... The answer to the question, is a resounding YES !!! In modern DC comics, there are at least 20 Vigilantes in Gotham, about 10 speedsters in central city alone, give or take 13 Kryptonians in Metropolis, A bus load of Green lanterns of earth, the wonder girls are piling up, like, 5 superhero teams, NONE OF WHICH IS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE ! DC has lost what made it special. It is now a bloated corpse...but back then, it was a mystery and a beautiful treasure trove of hope and the pursuit of Justice. It didn't matter that the villains were more, Justice would prevail. Now, characters like Jai have more page time than Barry Allen in Barry's OWN BOOK ! Ridiculous.
I would like to know what you thought of Batman the Caped Crusader I personally love the show for its 1940s film noir feel and I think the writing is really good.
A 90's Wizard Magazine image is still in my mind, even though its 25 years later. Batman is standing in front of so many Robin costume memorials. Hes reaching out to another kid "pepe I want you to be the 74th Robin" 🤣 shit dawg! We had four Robins. Nightwing, Tim, one dead, the other elseworlds. two bat girls, one retconned to never had been one alongside the very dead retconned away Batwoman. Left Bartinelli Huntress and Azrial... both of which where not exactly "family" but allies Bruce kept a watchful eye on.
Honestly though, i do like the idea that a one man war on crime and corruption has inspired a legion of Gothamites to not only be on Batman's side, but to fight alongside him, even former villains, and vigilantes who have turned away from murder as a means of solving the problem of crime. It's very inspiring...more importantly it sells merchandise. Case in point...If Flame Bird grew up and had a side kick of her own named Flame Thrower you'd buy the action figure. You know you would!
I don’t keep up with the comics, so it felt like it went from the classic 6 (Batman, 3 robins, batgirl, and Alfred) to a new robin making 7 (Damien) then all the sudden there’s 15 where did they come from help I have a bat infestation
My preference Alfred Nightwing Oracle Red Hood Red Robin Black Bat Robin Signal Or keep Tim as Robin Huntress and Batwoman are there but not as connected. Spoiler only if Clue Master exists, in that incarnation. Except The Batman, that Clue Master probably wouldn’t be able to make Stephanie.
Honestly yes there are new editions like Signal, Stephanie Brown/spoiler, Batwing, Harper row, Harley Quinn and Catwoman at some point, Clayface and Gotham girl (technically) And it feels like DC hardly knows what to do with them, not everyone knows about or characters people would rather gravitate towards like Jason, Dick, Cassandra and Barbara. I'd like to know Duke Thomas more but in most Batman comics he feels like a background or side character give him a few solo runs that are outstanding or have him serve an import role in New DC runs like absolute power It's a similar situation with Spider-Man, you got miles, Gwen, Venom, Ben Riley, Kaine, Mile's clone, Black cat, Spider woman to a certain extent.
When DC doesn't know what to do with a strand of characters it becomes, "oh let's make them an anti hero!" And then when it's a character in Gotham their first thought is to just make them an honorary member of the Bat-Family.
@@webtely true but DC still hasn't done anything substantial as of lately other than bonding with Cassandra Cain. The last thing I know what they did with her was fake her death, being pregnant and giving the baby up for adoption it's one of the things I mentioned about character like her and Duke being reduced to background characters
If I was doing it would just Batman having Alfred, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Catwoman and for the future era would be Helena Wayne and Batman Beyond that would be it.
Dick, Jason, Barbara, Cassandra, and Damian are always core family members for me. Outside of the New Batman Adventures, I haven’t seen enough of Tim to have any opinion on him. Stephanie only really became a superhero to go against her dad, so she’s always felt more like a solo character. Huntress counted as a member of the Bat Family back when she was Bruce’s daughter from another timeline, but Post-Crisis she’s only ever been Helena Bertinelli, and has little to do with the Bat Family at all. I haven’t been a fan of any version of Batwoman, especially since they made her Bruce’s cousin. I’m historically not a fan of pairing Bruce with Catwoman, since she always goes back to crime eventually, and pretty much every character added after Damian has felt rather half-baked. I’m a fan of Bruce taking in more kids, but I’d like them to be distinct within the family.
My Bat-Family is Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Barb, Red Hood, Tim, Damian, and personally I like adding Catwoman plus have Lucious and Jim as like add-ons tbh Batwoman, Batwing, Duke, Spoiler, and Cassandra are unnecessary also what do you think of the Superman and or Flash families
I think it can just be the following: 1. Batman 2. Nightwing 3. Oracle 4.Alfred 5. Red hood 6. Red Robin 7. Orphan/Batgirl 2 8. Robin (Damien) Tim & Damien would be in the titans/young justice. Barbara wouldn’t be on the field, Nightwing in bloodhaven. Jason doing his own thing with the outlaws. Leaving Batman,Alfred,Oracle & Cassandra. Only 2 people on the field I’d imagine steph, Duke & Kate would be on their on thing.
I think the main bat family should be dick as nightwing, Tim and Damian as robin, Cass as batgirl and Barbra as oracle with Jason not being a villain but not really vibing with the bat fam
I agree with all points. However, ironically, this is what was Joker's motivation behind the Death of the Family arc. I think members should leave and start somewhere like Dick, go against Batman ideologically in some way, or have an arc where a new villain appears that kills off a bunch of them.
I like the character Batwoman. But come on, she's the same case as Superman and Hulk "look, I have a cousin who is the female version of the hero" that tires me out. She can exist on a parallel Earth without any problems. Duke Thomas and Luke Fox are almost the same character, Batwing and Signal, in short "young man with no experience in a bat armor", for me this is ridiculous because practically all Marvel and DC heroes have an NPC sidekick like that. I only TOLERATE 4 Robins because they are all well built. Dick is the first one who evolved, Jason is the fallen hero, Tim is the most promising, Damian is the "legacy" Batman's son. Personally, we get to thorny terrain: I like Cassandra Cain's Batgirl, and also Spoiler, since the 90s, but come on, it's clear in front of the reader that they only exist because Barbara, who is the best Batgirl, was crippled. The two are a mere artifice to fill the vacancy of a hero that was missing, just like Tim was for Jason before people came up with the idea of resurrection and Red Hood. If they are radically modified to be heroes outside the core Batfamily, such as: Hawk, Dove, Black Canary herself, have patrolled Gotham at some point, but that does not make them members of the Batfamily. Something along those lines, I can accept. Other characters, like the forgettable Blue Bird or a name similar to that, man, come on. The Batman core is the biggest den of well-made characters that exists in the universe of heroes, only iconic people, then due to lack of creativity the editors come to create trash characters.
I realized that I forgot Huntress and Harley Quinn. Well, for me Huntress can be the same case as Hawk and Dove that I talked, as well as Question. Harley on the other hand, for me, she should've NEVER turned into a hero (or anti hero). She could simply still be part of Suicide Squad, mas theres no way Batman would work with literally a mass murderer that just because she was mistreated by the Joker and ended up "healing" and becoming good
@@m4sterpolk786 How can you be tired of it there aren't that many characters aren't like that in comics. By the way just because she's called she Hulk she is not the same as her cousin If you think Duke Thomas and Lucius fox are the same, Then that means you've never read their comics or Paid attention to their characters or personalities. Lucius fox is a super genius who made that version of the batwing suit and Duke Thomas is an inexperienced kid who has to train under the bat family to harness his skills and to master his superpowers. Depending on the continuity Harley Quinn hasn't actually killed anyone hurt some people's sure but hasn't killed anyone. Plus depending who's brightening Batman he can sometimes be up for giving guy especially if the criminal truly means to try and change.
@@kingj9664 You seem like the kind of guy who would say "Look man, T'Challa's Black Panther is VERY DIFFERENT from Shuri's Black Panther, man, because she's a princess and a scientist, and he's just a warrior prince". Or even "look, buddy, Peter Parker and Miles Morales are VERY DIFFERENT man, Miles lives with his parents, has electrical powers and invisibility, while Peter is an orphan and lives with his aunt. They are completely different Spider-Men". If thats the case, I cannot help you.
@@m4sterpolk786 The fact that you chose Sherri and Miles Morales makes me start to think you're part of a certain comic book group who Cries about the w word. You do know the black panther is a legacy character right? Meaning the only way for sure to become black panther is Chala leaves wakanda or He dies, Plus do you think that Challa was any different from when his father was the black panther. Good I never asked nor want your helpGood I never asked nor want your help
@@kingj9664 You seem to be quite pretentious. Yes, I know that Black Panther is a legacy, the name means literally the guardian/king of Wakanda. That doesn't change the fact that T'Chaka, T'Challa and Shuri's Black Panther hero are exactly the same character. This is a case of a "legacy" hero whose mantle is passed on to you. It's the same case with the Green Lanterns, only instead of a legacy, they are a Police Corps. It makes sense to have several members who are the same, basically Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart are exactly the same hero archetype as Kyle Rayner, Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz, for example. And yet, that doesn't change the fact that they are the SAME HERO. But when you get into issues like Wolverine, why do you feel the need for Laura (x-23) to also assume the heroic identity of Wolverine? That's Logan's unique name, it doesn't make sense that you would want multiple characters with the same name. It's the same problem that affected Tim Drake and Damian, who for a time were both known as "Robin." Thats the same case with Batman and Batwoman. Batman only exist because Bruce was afraid of bats and wanted to use this against criminals. Why then is Kate Kane (ironically Bruce's cousin) the same hero, but a woman? Why you need to make everyone related to the hero, a hero too? And in a worst way, with the SAME NAME???
I guess the issue here is that some of these characters are not gotham heroes, but will return if they feel he needs support. Nightwing is the hero of bludhaven and a titan. Batman Inc. is international. Alfred is gone. But i feel i agree mostly, barbra needed to stay aa oracle, Cassandra as batgirl, others need to be cleaned up
Immediate Batfamily members: Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Alfred Pennyworth, Cassandra Cain,Tim Drake, Damian Wayne. Extended family: Jadon Todd, Lucius Fox, Helena Bertinelli, Stephanie Brown. Allies: Plastic Man, Selina Kyle, Jim Gordon, Jean Paul Valley, Harley Quinn. I actually don't think Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown or Kate Kane need to exist. Much of the new characters are not even on my radar. Damian himself i struggled to attach to as a character. But he makes the most sense as a successor to Batman.
The Bat Family has too many members to the point that Gotham should be the safest city in the DC Universe. It makes no sense its still such a hellhole if all those heroes are there. Theres even heroes that arent in the Bat family that work in Gotham from time to time too.
I think the main members should be Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Barbra, Tim, Jason, Cassandra, and Damian. The rest would just be outer circle members
I agree. 2 people I would add, however, is Lucius Fox to make the toys and Leslie Thompkins to patch everyone up.
What about Stephanie Brown?
I would even take Barbara and Damian out. It's call batfam for a reason, they are actually close families to Bruce, basically Bruce's father and children. Barbara got her own family with James Gordan, they are close friends of the family but not exactly THE family. And I hate Damian plus there's 3 robin, it's enough.
@@fiyfrost I think the barbara is fair but she’s just been associated with bruce since like the 60s and Damian is the blood son, he’s gotta be there 😭. He’s at least getting growth
That is still to many
Batman: “I work alone.”
*Immense Batman family exists
Batman: “Ignore that.”
I do think the larger Batfamily can work it’s just writers don’t let these Batman related characters be anywhere but Batman stories for example if you want a larger Batfamily say (Bruce Selina, Four Robins,3 Batgirls Duke and Batwoman) it’s an easy fix. Give Kate her own stories in a different NJ city other than Gotham, keep Dick in bloodhaven, keep Damian with the Titans, keep Tim with Young Justice. That leaves Bruce,Jason, Steph, Duke and Cass since Barbra is Oracle or be in Bludhaven with Dick and Duke protects Gotham in the daytime so that leaves 4 members to protect it Gotham during night it’s that simple and it’s not ridiculous that this city still has crime at night.
The problem with giving these characters their own stories is the lack of readers they'd likely have. I mentioned the problem with compelling nature's and I personally don't think many of them have what it takes.
@@tyrellmultimedia true the only one who could probably hold their own title are Jason and Dick but that why the other characters should be apart of teams
@@ZQPPS Cassandra had 2 runs in the 2000s
Batman Alfred, The Three Batgirls, The Four Robins Batwoman and Batwing. I like Ghostmaker, Harley and Duke but they don’t neeed to be there at all
Duke can train with them for a bit but he becomes part of the outsiders. Also get rid of batwomen & batwing they add nothing
@@WeebGuru6Duke is in the Dark Multiverse, last I checked, so he's literally an outsider but he'd be a cooler member of the Outsiders team.
Batwing and Batwoman are usually doing their own thing so they're harmless reserve characters for splash panels.
Harley quinn for sure most definitely doesn't need to be there at all but Duke can
@@eliteghost1001 exactly this guy gets it if she ain’t dating Jason she ain’t gonna be there
Batwing isn’t needed
To me, the core Bat-Family will always be:
Batman
Alfred
Dick
Barb
Jason
Tim
Damian
And if you count him, Terry as the Future Batman
Characters with come and go, but these are the core members
Mine is Bats, Alfred, Luicus, Dick, Jason, Barbara, Selina, Helena, and Terry
@@thedaltoid0266not including Damian but including Terry is crazy 🤡
@@Itcouldbedust Keep it simple
@@thedaltoid0266 Terry is cool for the show. But for actual comics Damian adds a great dynamic to Bruce's character, people just can't accept modern storytelling
@Itcouldbedust yeah I get that. Helena, for me, is the sub for Damian in the biological kid department, but she also takes the role of the signal.
the issues with the Batfamily can be resolved by seperating it into three groups: inner, middle and outer.
Inner Batfamily is Batmam, Alfred, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Damian, and Barbara Gordon as Oracle
Middle Batfamily is Azrael, Catwoman, Spoiler, Kate Kane, Duke Thomas and Ace.
Outer Batfamily is everyone else
The Batfamily works best as a small group of Batman's innermost circle. everyone else can frankly be treated as an ally of the crusade
Edit: to explain some of my picks.
the Inner Batfamily is characters who have been integral parts of Bruce's innermost circle for decades. I kept it to the Robins, Barbara and Alfred since they've been Bruce's longest-running, most loyal, and most indispensible allies. A batman story without Nightwing, or Barbara, or Alfred, feels weird unless it provides a reason why they aren't present.
the middle Batfamily are characters who I'm aware of as having been important several times. Spoiler is a former Robin. Azrael is considered as Batman's possible successor several times. Catwoman is a villain turned love interest (being an ex-villain keeps her from being inner batfam) Kate, Duke, and Ace are all popular, but aren't as essential to the mythos as Barbara, TIm or Alfred.
I didn't include Jim Gordon since, in my mind, he works best as Batman's ambassador/contact in the GCPD, rather than a full-on part of the Batfamily
Heavily agree
duke is litterally one of his son
This but Spoiler is inner, she has too big of a relationship with Tim Barbra and especially Cass to keep getting put to side
I do agree but people also forget that the huntress (Helena Wayne) should be part of the family because she is the daughter of Bruce and Salena
You're completely missing Cassandra Cain
Batman’s only real competition is Spider-Man? Superman, helloo?
In popularity? I'm sorry, Batman and Spider-Man are undeniably 1 and 2.
@@tyrellmultimedia Disagree, Superman has more sales than the both of them. He’s an international icon just like they are. Saying that he’s not comp at all is insane. I’m not arguing that Batman & Spider-Man aren’t top 2, it’s just that whole ‘no one comes close to them’ part that I’m contesting
I think that the main problem is the lack of diverse skills more than anything else.
All the members nowadays are a variation of the same concept: a martial artist with various degrees of detective skills.
And the members that had different skills now are dead, changed or simply not used.
Alfred was more of a comic relief/support character and now he's dead.
Harold Allnut was the tech guy that gave Batman all his gadgets and now he's dead and apparently Bruce is a tech genius (which doesn't make any sense).
Barbara as Oracle gave Batman constant tech support but now she returned to be just another good fighter.
Leslie Thompkins was the medic and now nobody uses her.
Man even Azrael that was just a straight up fighter with 0 detective skills got sidelined when he's basically the better version of Red Hood.
As for Harley Quinn she should be put in Arkham, no way she got a free jail card just because she hangs around Bats now, Gordon will never let that slide.
Except Batman making gadgets for himself makes sense.
@@Rengokuo4o6
Not if they're high tech.
The point of the message is that Batman didn't have the knowledge necessary to build high tech gadgets (that's why i brought up Harold Allnut in that section) not gadgets in general.
Gadgets like batarangs, grappling hooks with ropes or any kind of chemical product used for detective work can be crafted or bought without a problem, i have absolutely no problem with that.
My issue is that Batman has been turned into some sort of automatic engineer that can build world-ending A.I.s when for the great majority of his existence he needed people like Harold or Hiro Okamura to craft any kind of high tech gadget
@@niccoloproia3678 Batman is smart he doesn't need harrold nut or whatever you call him. Most of Batman's inventions involve him taking inspirations from failed or developmental wayne tech and customizing them to his needs. Any help he needs he'll get it from Lucious Fox. But he mostly makes the stuff himself. He travelled around the world specifically to gain knowledge that would help him fight crime.
@@Rengokuo4o6
To respond to your points in order:
- i'm not questioning Batman's intelligence but being smart doesn't mean you're knowledgeable in all fields of knowledge.
I'll explain myself with other characters from the Batman mythos:
Professor Hugo Strange is surely one of DC's greatest minds when it comes to psychology and psychiatry, does it make him good when it comes to Finance or Economy? Nope, Penguin on the other hand is an expert in Economy but i would never take psychological advice from him.
I named 2 different people that Batman needed for their technological expertise: Harold Allnut and Hiro Okamura (the third Toyman that was introduced by Jeph Loeb on Superman Vol.2 #177 and that was recruited by Batman in Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman run).
- Most of Batman's gadgets come from Wayne Enterprises that's for sure but as fully functional devices.
Customizing a high-tech contraption by putting a bat-shaped symbol on it isn't the same as building it, according to your definition then Donald Trump must have designed the Trump Tower all by himself since he put his name on the building.
- surely Lucius can help but not as an engineer, Lucius is the CEO of Wayne Enterprises therefore he presides over the strategy and management of Bruce's company.
He helps Bruce by getting him the gadgets and resources he needs without compromising Bruce's vigilante identity.
There are some alternative realities in which Lucius is an actual engineer (like Batman Earth One) but we're talking about mainline comics.
- i think i proved this point wrong with the previous sections
- about the "He travelled around the world specifically to gain knowledge that would help him fight crime" let me quote "The Legend of the Batman: Who He Is and How He Came to Be" (a 2 page introduction for Batman Hush written by Jeph Loeb and drawn by Jim Lee):
"Lising his family's wealth, Master Bruce sought out the world's greatest minds in CRIMINOLOGY, MARTIAL ARTS, and the CRAFT OF DETECTING".
Now i ask you were it was established that Bruce ever had any kind of formation on engineering during his travels around the world?
@@niccoloproia3678 Batman was trained by a russian engineer known as Sergey in engineering and gadgetry. That's how he got his knowledge from. Also using blueprints of wayne tech, making them work for him is not just putting a batsticker on it. WTF?
They are a groundwork for his innovation so he doesn't start from scratch. What would even stop him from taking online classes and learning this shit especially in our modern world where information is readily available on his fingertips even as Batman?
I think my ideal version of the Bat family is Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Tim as robin, Barbra as oracle and Cassandra Cain as batgirl. Jason is alive, but it’s when he only just became active as red hood. Bruce is aware of him but doesn’t know his identity. I think any more than this is honestly overkill, and like you said, it feels more like a privatised military than an actually family
I think DC should make a TV series about the Bat-Family it's shocking that DC doesn't make a TV series about them and focus on all the relationship between Batman and everyone else in different seasons. Batman, Robin/Dick Grayson, Batgirl/Barbara Gordon in season one; Batman and Robin/Jason Todd season two; Batman, Robin/Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain in season three; Batman, Robin/Damian Wayne, Batgirl/Stephanie Brown in season four; and Batman, Batwoman, Batwing, Catwoman in season five.
Considering they're non-powered and have to cover all of Gotham and Bludhaven, I actually think it makes sense for the Batfamily to be really big to cover the most ground. Batman can jump in when a big villain shows up, the rest have a rota and can sub in when someone gets injured
I agree cuz Gotham is a big place like the size of New York so the Bat Family having like almost 9 to 10 members does make sense and especially like you said they're all non-powered heroes except for Duke Thomas/The Signal who's the only metahuman with powers in the Bat Family.
I'm glad to see other people appreciating Cassandra Cain
I like it. Makes it feel like Batman has his own little world in a corner of the DC universe.
I feel like DC needs to do a better job of distinguishing whose part of the core family, extended family (Gotham Knights) and The Network (we have your number if we need you)
For me
The Family:
Alfred
Bruce
Dick
Babs
Tim
Cassie
MAYBE Selina (only if they're willing to commit)
Ace is there but in the same capacity as in Batman Beyond. He generally guard the home front and keeps Alfred company but can be included in specific missions.
Then the Gotham Knights which is a select list of extended family/friends
Spoiler
Huntress
Azrael
Red Hood
Harley
The Outsiders
Etc
And the Network is just everyone else in Gotham and most of them don't even know "The Network" is a thing
Not only are there too many people, you could even kill Jason again. What a boring character. Also, whatever happened to just people operating in Gotham, and not in a bat family sense, just a crime fighter sense?
I see it in eras
Era 1: batman and robin batgirl
Era 2: Batman, nightwing, jason batgirl
Era 3:Batman, nightwing, tim drake, spoiler, oracle, red hood
Era 4:Batman, nightwing, red hood, red robin, damien, oracle, spoiler, Cassandra cain.
They need to simplify it. Also most of these members do their own thing out of gotham like batwoman team
yep and Era 0: which is Bruce and Alfred
@@Isaacisaperson4677 I also didn't go into depth so yea theres a lot of details or different versions you can do when adapting this to a movie or show
@@thegloveofficial3838 Here’s My Main Eras from Pre-Crisis-Post Crisis:
Era 0: Batman & Alfred
Era 1: Batman, Robin (Dick), Alfred
Era 2: Batman, Robin (Dick), Alfred, Batgirl (Barbara)
Era 3: Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl (Barbara), Alfred, Robin (Jason)
Era 4: Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Alfred, Robin (Tim), Batgirl (Cassandra)
Era 5: Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Alfred, Robin (Tim), Batgirl (Cassandra), Spoiler, Huntress, Azerial
Era 6: Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Red Robin, Robin (Damian), Batgirl (Stephanie), Black Bat (Cassandra), Alfred
@@ebenezeronile basically pre new 52 is how it should be
@@thegloveofficial3838 To me yes, But for me the ideal Bat-Family is Era 4. It has the Old versions of Sidekicks and the new ones perfect aligned and it’s not to bloated. Also, it’s the best characters of the Bat-family all together. Barbra and Dick act as mentor/older siblings to the new Robin and Batgirl. Not to mention characters like Huntress don’t align with the Moral and Spoiler is reckless.
It should just be Alfred, the 4 Robins, Barb, Cassandra, Catwoman, and Ace. Then in the future they should add Helena, and Terry. They shouldn’t add more than this.
I was considering this for a DC universe which characters I’d keep around from the Batfamily, as despite being apart of the internet who prefers their existence I think they've let it get too much. This is what I’ve reduced it to:
- Batman
- Nightwing (Dick)
- Robin (Tim)
- Batwoman (Kate)
- Batgirl/Oracle (Barbara)
I'm definitely going the Red Hood story route for my vision, but I don’t see him being apart of the main family for a while. Also I’d probably use Spoiler, but not on the main lineup.
Edit: Almost forgot Alfred.
Seeing my Stephanie Brown crossed out on the thumbnail made me sad. Haha!
The bat family does needs to be reduced down.
1) Batman
2) Batwoman - Kate Kane
3) Robin - (Damian Wayne, Tim Drake)
4) Batgirl - (Cassandra Cain, Barbara Gordon)
5) Nightwing - Dick Grayson
6) Red Hood - Jason Todd
7) Alfred
Are the top seven I would keep.
I agree with you but I think it needs to be smaller imo.
1. Batman
2. Alfred
3. Nightwing
4. Oracle
5. Robin (Tim)
6. Batgirl (Cassandra)
Left to me Jason wouldn’t be alive, but going based of Under the Red Hood and Lost Days, He shouldn’t be apart of the family because his moral code doesn’t align with Batman. Same for Damian even though his grown as a character. Kate Kane is a supporting character to me. If I were to replace Batwoman with someone else it would be Lesile Thompkins because of her role In Bruce’s upbringing.
I always liked the idea of Signal. A member of the bat family that operates during the daytime
Yes exactly. I feel the same way because The Signal is in a unique position he's a daylight hero and a metahuman that usually work best in the daytime.
I never really had any problems with the Bat-Family. And the ever growing size of it definitely never bothered me, because of the way I viewed bats as a whole.
I want to start by stating/admitting that I’m definitely no expert on bats so what I say is not rooted in science or facts. In most media (and even real life examples), a lot of bats tend to be more social, traveling in groups. While there are definitely plenty examples of some bats being strong loners, I’ve rarely seen more examples of loner bats than colonies of bats.
As for how this weird piece of trivia relates to Batman… bats often form large groups so why wouldn’t Batman? I believe that the definitive version of Batman is a bat who was a part of a small colony, but tragically lost his and he then became a loner so that he wouldn’t feel the hurt from losing anyone again. However, after a few other bats come to fly with him, his walls slowly crumble, and as time goes by more bats gather to him and a new colony is created around him.
To make a long story short, Batman’s journey to me is like a bat becoming a loner, after losing one colony, only to gain a new colony that reminds him of the beauty of connections.
Very well said! 👊👊✊✊👏👏👏👌👌
@@UnexpectedWonder thanks
@@Zekrel De nada. No problemo.
I agree plus Batman has to evolve as a character and this works well with me
Ever since I got into comics, I thought the Bat-Family was too big.
I'd say I agree as once it get's to the point where you can't list everyone you know it's too much. Everyone knows the core members like Alfred, Nightwing, Barbara, Jason, Tim, Damian, Catwoman, and Terry.
Cassandra, Signal, Batwoman, Stephenie, Huntress, Carrie, Batwing, and Azrael are not as well known to mainstream audiences so most readers don't recognize them as often. Heck even I barely remember characters like Gotham girl, Harper Row, Tim Fox or Hawkfire not to mention that depending on the story Harley Quinn or Clayface may or may not even be members depending on the interpetation.
It's hard to keep up with and at times it feels like even DC themselves doesn't know who is and isn't a member.
I couldn't agree with you more my friend, I also prefer Batman as a Solo act
The problem is that Batman is great at everything to the point he basically has no weakness which makes his other members in his family not special. So an idea can be to maybe have their skills really stand out so that way Batman needs their help more. I know for us who love Batman it’s hard to see people who are just as skilled but it makes it more realistic. None of us are great at everything and we all learn from others. Not trying to get deep but I think it would make for good story writing
Sure but i wouldn't make them field operatives at all. They'll be sidelined.
His weakness is asking for when actually needs it
A rebuttal of the notion that having 15 Batman level hero’s in one city,and yet crime is ever rampant.
Hero’s creating their own villains, I think other stories touched on that but I’m not sure
It's true, tho. An evergrowing bloated batfamily + other vigilantes in Gotham and the city is still a shithole. But that's more to do with the status quo.
I personally think a large Bat-Family can work
Like Year 1 its just Bruce and Alfred
Then by idk Year 20 he has like 20 members all protecting Gotham and by the end of Bruce time as batman Gotham is finally safe
The thing is, they can’t get rid of a lot of them. For example: they can’t get rid of Batwing because they don’t want a PR nightmare from the media saying they got rid of black Batman even though the media doesn’t know who he is.
So your telling me you wouldn't read The Adventures of Batwing & Signal? How has that not become a thing. 🤣
All I think the Bat family needs is Bruce, Alfred, 4 Robins, Barbara, maybe Catwoman if you're doing a love interest thing and Bat-Cow. You can't have the Bat family without Bat-Cow. Truly one of the characters of all time.
Yes, it’s too big. My ideal bat family is trimmed down:
Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Robin, Oracle, Alfred.
I think that's a solid amount 👍🏼
@@tyrellmultimedia preciate it
I think it’s a double edged sword because they are a family of heroes with no powers which is why they need each other sometimes but it becomes confusing when they all have the skill of great martial artist and no crime gets stopped in terms of crime rate in Gotham. However, I am a die hard fan of the bat family 🤷🏾♂️
Batman, Alfred, Dick, Barbara, Jason, Tim, Cassandra, and Terry in the future. Nobody else. Damian is lame, Tim should be the last Robin. There should never be more than 4-5 members at a time (Not including Alfred and Bruce). The Bat-Family is definitely too large at this point.
I honestly always forget that BlueBird is a character of the Bat-Family, like, Ghostmaker, Bluebird, The Signal( Duke Thomas ) , Batwing, Jace Fox (Batman), and Huntress ( Helena Bertinelli ), Harley Quinn, and more ( I don't know if I missed anybody ), but those character that I just named are all useless and don't provide anything significant to the Bat-Family as a whole, like the original Batwing decided to stop being Batwing so he could go back to their country if I am not mistaken.
understandble but i feel there's still more use for Bluebird, The Signal and Batwing at the most. Huntress I felt never made sense to be apart of the bat family.
@@eriksnation231 BlueBird and The Signal are both characters that can easily be forgotten about and expanding more with those two characters isn't needed to be honest.
That was very detailed TMM. I agree with many of your points. Well thought out video.
Thank you!!
Short answer:
*YEEEEEESSSSS JESUS CHRIST IT WAS ALREADY TOO MANY AFTER CASSANDRA KANE!!!!!!!!!*
*STOOOOOOP IIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!*
*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!*
Only newly created character I’d keep is Ghostmaker. Him training with Bruce in his younger years is pretty cool to me.
I think all of those characters could exist, i just dont enjoy too many characters being around Batman himself, i think it makes his stories look kinda goofy. The idea of a kid or teenager sidecick already feels kinda unserious but it works, but when you add +10 characters make Bruce feel insuficient by his own. I think the DC trinity works a little better without sideckicks/derived characters.
Also i loved the word "batallion" lol
I’m causal bat watcher, but for the core members I always thought it was: Batman, Robin(Damien), Nightwing, Batgirl/Oracle, Red Hood, Alfred and Tim.
Perfect 7, Tim should take up the day shifts, I know Singal is a thing but…they never do much with him, same with Batwoman…
I love how you talk so Serious like you're presenting a college history Report every video
Haha thanks man. When I'm passionate about something, I tend to talk that way when trying to explain my thoughts and reasons.
Even in advanced age such as 70 years old, Batman should still be in elite physical condition given his training and knowledge of herbs as well as his wealth granting access to both...!
I think the Bat-Family should stay relatively small (Batman, Alfred, The Robins, Batgirls, and MAYBE Catwoman). Even then, it’s a little big, but characters will fluctuate.
After that I think they should branch out into Bat-Adjacent teams, like the Outsiders or Birds of Prey.
Heck, you could make an entirely new team like “GOTHAM FORCE” or something like that
I think it’s time we finally got back to having one Robin, one Batgirl, having Barbara be Oracle, Jason either stays away from being part of the family or just goes back to being dead. As for the rest they should be regulated to supporting cast. That includes characters like Huntress, Azarial, Spoiler, and potentially Damian because Tim was done dirty.
Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Oracle, Red Hood, Red Robin, Spoiler, Orphan, and Robin then MAYBE EXTENDED Catwoman, Signal, Batwing, and Batwoman
Exactly there are way to many of them and so many of them are pointless in my opinion the only ones should be:
Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Red hood, Batgirl, Red Robin, Robin
Here's my dream batfamily scenario (None of this is based off of canon, just how I think every character could thrive)
Bat-Family:
Batman
Alfred
Dick Grayson (Often leading Titans)
Jason Todd (Mostly with The Outlaws)
Damian Wayne
Tim Drake (Red robin, often with Titans)
Barbra Gordon (Oracle, consistently working with Titans and Bat-family evenly)
Cassandra Cain (Batgirl)
I think there is a lot of potential with an older bruce wayne raising Cassandra alongside Damian in Wayne Tower/Batcave. They both have fucked up mommy issues and can bond over that. With most of the bat-family elsewhere, good stories can be told. Dick is either working with Barbra in Bludhaven or working with the Titans (Red Robin (Tim Drake), Starfire, Flash (Wally West), Beast Boy, Cyborg, Raven, Wonder Girl (Donna Troy), Aqualad (Kaldur-Ahm), Miss Martian, Superboy, Blue Beetle), and Red Hood going on adventures with The Outlaws (Artemis, Arsenal, Bizarro, Crush)
I think these situations would give each of these characters a lot of room for great storytelling.
Rename Red Robin to Cardinal!!
I agree with that. Tim needs a new codename cuz he's out grown Robin mantle now.
It's too crowded, and although I think Batman does NEED a family, it shouldn't be that large. 5 members, tops, because it gets watered down reak quickly, every member you add is a a downgrade to the group in general, it's almost the Legion of Superheroes at this point
I'm making a sims save of every bat family member currently on member number 19, and it's been a nightmare to organize 😭
I'm so damn happy somebody FINALLY said it! I've been saying this for a while. It's just gotten ridiculous at this point. The fact that the superman family is SMALLER than the batfamily is crazy to me. In my opinion the bat-fam should include, Batman, Alfred, Dick, Barb, Tim, maybe Damien, and Ace. (Unpopular opinion but I think Jason should've stayed an antagonist to batman)
Why is that crazy? Batman is on a planet with over 8 billion other humans. Krypton was destroyed and SuperMan loses so much if there are a million other krypton’s around, not to mention it would be wild for the survivors to largely end up on earth.
Personally, I believe the family is too big, but it can most definitely work. For it to work, I think the Batfamily should be hugely spread out. I'd want the Batfamily to work outside of Gotham, like Dick.
I'd believe that the people who should be in Gotham are Batman, Robin (Damien), Barbra, Alfred, Signal, and Red Hood. As they have the most connections to Gotham. They need to learn more as well or have a purpose in Gotham. Jason stays for Crime Alley.
Those who should stay out of Gotham, Nightwing, Red Robin, Batwoman, Huntress, Blackbat, Batgirl, and almost the entire family. (Personally, I believe Luke Fox and others that aren't fully developed as well are retired.)
Nightwing is in Blud, Red Robin is traveling the world like a spy, Batwoman is in a neighboring city, Huntress goes wherever, Blackbat is in South Korea, Batgirl a bit of a wonderer to me so I'm not 100% where'd she be stationed but it'd be outside Gotham. They can visit Gotham to help, but they're not really there besides visits in crisis and for hanging out for family.
For more obscure family members like Carrie and Terry, they are future characters so they're in Gotham.
The Batfamily is huge and the more obscure family members should be retired and done with that life.
I think Jason should be the Punisher of the DC, keep him a killer and make it so that he and Bruce NEVER work together, like maybe in a Nightwing book you can have the two team up in truely desperate situations but mostly just have Red Hood as his own guy
Haven't watched the video but yes. For such a loner he's practically got his private own army.
@isaacalexander5286. He’s a detective first and foremost, Not a military man. I say his own organized crime fighting unites, ala fbi which he started before the justice league came together. Truth be told it makes sense to a degree, as it shows his human side more in he can’t do it all himself in covering all The universe, the planet running around the world and his most important town and the biggest issue for him is fighting large scale assassins. Organizations like the court of owls and the larger parliament and the society or league of assassins who would rivals against each other and then leviathan all too much for one character or one small team when his opponents are larger then international depending how wild the writers get. If he keeps it to devisions or branches with clear people in charge it’ll be fine there just need to be clear definition.
Short Answer: Yes. But DC is handling them is a good way, not perfect but good enough way. The core Batfamily in current comics seem to be Batman, 4 Robins, Oracle, 2 Batgirls and Duke. (R.I.P Alfred) Jason's character is pretty inconsistent recent years, they keep making him the black sheep of the family and then suddenly he's welcome to have dinner with them? I would also add Catwoman but it seems she's still seprate which is a shame because in my opinion she should be apart of them now.
The more extended Gotham Vigilantes are Bluebird, Batwing and Azreal which should stay that way. They shouldn't be welcomed to any family dinners, they're seprate vigilantes who got permission from Batman to also protect Gotham, they're home. Similar to Red Hood Hill comic where Jason stayed in a Gotham neighbourhood for a while and helped the locals who were fighting crime to protect their homes. I would give that treatment to Duke, sorry but I don't really like him being apart of the core family, ofcourse he and other vigilantes can have friendships with them but not apart of the main family.
Edit: People also keep using that Batfamily image with Harley Quinn and like, Harley has never and will never join the Batfamily. That is a promotional image for the comics, Joker is literally ON IT on the left side. The outfit Damian is wearing, he never did in comics, they were still probably deciding on the design for his outfit in his solo book so they just slapped on a concept one. Huntress was also never apart of Batfamily, she was actually treated badly by Batman during No Man's Land.
I pretty much agree. One other thing I really like the idea of a Batman Beyond with Terry McGinnis continuing the Batman mantle in Bruce's old age. Having a such large family makes it hard to justify. Even in the original show where there was just Dick, Barbara and Tim they had to make Barbara the GCPD Commissioner (taking after her father), retire Tim, and essentially write Dick out.
If I had to cut the family down I'd keep, Dick, Jason, Barbara, Tim, and Damian. Then maybe the future you can have Dick retire, become the mayor Bludhaven, pass down the Nightwing mantle and the safety of Bludhaven to Damian, Jason leaves travel the country, Barbara again becomes the GCPD Commissioner, and Tim settles down to live a normal life with a wife and kids. Then you can introduce Terry as crime returns to Gotham and have that Batman Beyond storyline. If you can also reintroduce a Helena Wayne Batwoman as Terry's dynamic duo.
Yes. The Batfamily should only be Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Cassandra, and a possibility of Duke Thomas due to his mysterious father and the stories to come from it.
If it was up to me as a show runner or creative director for any kind of Batman project, my roster would consist of Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Barbara, Jason, Cassandra and Selina (with Terry and/or Damien coming in to serve as the Batman Beyond). No disrespect to any of the others, I do like a lot of these characters conceptually, I simply think those 7-9 characters are the ones I am most interested in and think make for some interesting dynamics and character arcs.
I think it’s important that Bruce has this family. To me it’s literally Bruce’s reward for being Batman. It comes full circle that this man who had to grow up so alone, working so hard to protect his city and sometimes the world, trying his best to make it so no one ever has to feel alone or afraid comes to gain a family full of those he has guided and inspired to also fight for justice.
I really like the DCAU interpretation of Batman, especially the early BTAS seasons, Justice League and Beyond, but I hate any future where this family is left broken and Bruce is left alone. He’s brought right back to square one. It renders his tale a tragedy, and I can get behind that sometimes, but I’d much rather it be a triumph.
Depending on the timeline, you can occasionally reference Tim, Steph, Kate, or even Harley to name a few, some of them having once been part of the family and have either joined with other teams, moved away to operate on their own, moved on to either to operate without their costumes or just full on retiring after a certain point.
I miss Batman Beyond
For real. He needs to make a comeback.
I feel like any kind of hero family, 6-7 pages max, if more, they just get lost in the background.
So my pick would be Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, Cass.
With Barbara and maybe Steph as supporting members, but not the core family because they have their own family and don't really need a place in Bruce's family. There can be very close friends of the family to support them, like Lucius Fox, Dr. Thompkins, James Gordan, etc., but they wouldn't be a Batfam members either.
Yes. Having more than two Robins is crazy already. That’s part of the reason we never get a Robin in the movies.
I feel like there needs to be some sort of grouping or established hierarchy for gotham heros and vigilantes like how goons, clube, gangs, mafias, etc, are separated.
The Bat-family (you know them)
The Affiliated (people who work with the Bat-family and others)
Long rangers (dont want to work or affiliate wity batfam but still wont kill, mother panic maybe or ragman, even huntress maybe)
Lone gunmen (dont want to deal or work with the family or anyone and use deadly force, batwoman, simon dark and jason todd come to mind)
Untapped solos (characters being to affiliated or Batfam who could work best in reboot situation, duke tomas for example, change his costume design and give him is own story outside the family, no connection at first)
I think its fine to have lots of members, but also consequences. That means maybe some get permanently injured, trauma, or others quit, etc. You can have a larger cast if you kill off some members, but that would require writers to allow bad things to happen to the characters or write grief well.
batman is a loner in name only, what kind of loner has over 10 sidekicks
As much as I like a good chunk of the Batfamily, I have to agree, there are too many members.
You can make this argument for all the "families" of the major DC superheroes. Here's a few:
Look over at Superman's family: there is him, Lois, Jon, Conner, Supergirl, Jimmy, Super-Man of China, Krypto, Steel and his niece, Power Girl, the super-twins Clark adopted from Warworld.
Or Flash's: Jay, Barry, Wally, Impulse, Kid Flash, Max Mercury, Jesse Quick, Flash of China, the Boom, Wally's kids: Jai, Irey, and Wade, Joan Garrick, Iris West, Linda Park.
Wonder Woman's: Wonder Woman, Donna Troy, Wonder Girl, Yara Flor, Artemis, Hippolyta, Nubia, Steve Trevor, Wonder Woman's brother that everyone forgot.
Even Green Arrow's is large: Green Arrow, Black Canary, Arsenal, Connor Hawke, Red Arrow, Speedy, Arrowette, Red Canary, Lian Harper.
(I mostly tried to stick to characters that are currently used, these lists would obviously be longer if I named every character that's been a part of one of those families at some point.)
The Marvel/Shazam family is my least favorite one. Everyone is just a reskins of Billy Batson. Only two of them need to be superheroes: Billy and someone else, the rest should be supporting characters. And with almost 10 human Green Lanterns, Green Lantern deserves a mention for overkilling it.
if you don’t have a bat or bird related name you shouldn’t be included
Yeah, the bigger the Bat-family gets, the less and less sanse the whole "GOTHAM IS A CESSPOOL OF UNENDING CRIME ITS GRIM AND DARK ALL THE TIME" thing makes.
When there's like ten super genuises/combat prodogies/master detectives working overtime to put every crook in jail, it just feels weird that there's still a tidal wave of crime happening.
Yes, yes, suspension of disbelief and all that, but come on, at some point it crosses from dramatic to straight up self-parody ridiculousness.
I’ll be honest when I think of the bat family I only think of :
Batman,Nightwing, Robin(Tim), Batgirl(Barb), Red Hood, Damien(I hate him), Orphan, Azrael… of course Alfred and Lucious too but main talking about the combatants.
I really never think of Huntress(love her), Catwoman, Betty, or Kathy immediately.
My ideal Bat-Family would be:
Batman aka Bruce Wayne
Alfred
Lucius
Nightwing aka Dick Grayson (Robin I)
Red Hood aka Jason Todd (Robin II)
Red Robin aka Tim Drake (Robin III)
Spoiler aka Stephanie Brown (Robin IV and later Batgirl IV)
Robin V aka Damian Wayne
Batwoman aka Kate Kane
Flamebird aka Betty Kane (Batgirl I)
Oracle aka Barbara Gordon (Batgirl Il)
Black Bat aka Cassandra Cane (Batgirl III)
Batgirl V aka Carrie Kelly
With Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Oracle, Alfred and Lucius in Gotham.
Nightwing shifting beetwen protecting Bludhaven and leading the Titans.
Red Robin, Black Bat and Spoiler being in Young Justice together.
Batwoman and Flamebird can have their own respective cities like Chikago and Los Angeles to protect.
Red Hood does his own thing going from place to place.
Then from time to time whenever a situation like No Man's Land happens or there is a big gang war between
Two Face, Penguin and the Joker we can have the whole gang coming together.
No Batman Inc or Outsiders though those only complicate matters. Batman's only other team is the JL.
Nightwing does his own thing in another city. Oracle is a background character at this point. Red Hood should be like that cousin you only see on holidays. Bruce and Damian are the main duo. Tim Duke Cass and Steph could be a Gotham Knights team. Huntress Batwing and Batwoman can just not exist.
I always thought DC should do a “death of the family” reset where only Bruce, 4 robins, batwoman, and Barbara survive… I’d have Damien be a major part of the story where he does end up becoming the leader of the league of shadows and put bat woman in Europe… have most of Bruce’s relationships kind of ruined with the rest of the family for a couple risking decisions that do get some family members killed. Basically setting up the “Batman Beyond” future timeline so it can tie in perfectly.
I do think the family is too big at this point and comics do need a big event not like a crisis
To me ,the core bat family will always be
Batman
Alfred
Dick
Barbara
Jason
Tim
Damian
Or sometimes Cass and Steph even batwoman but not the main member
As a related issue I get really depressed with all the emphasis placed on Killing Joke and Death in the Family. I don't need to see Barbara get paralyzed by the Joker again or Jason beaten to death with a crowbar again.
For me and as well based on other bat family interpretations
Reduced yes, but not delete. Let them have something useful to stand out and to highlight them, but does not need to always be there
Keep the 4 robins because spiritually they are brothers, but let them also operate in their respective teams, so they don't always have to be there, Dick with Titans, Todd with the outlaws, Tim with young justice, Damian being the main stay
Barbs can just be oracle, while Cassandra operates as Batgirl (and kinda like bruce's adoptive daughter) while spoiler helps her out from time to time.
Catwoman is a love interest so she stays
So that is the core bat fam
Now for the extend ones:
Huntress does not need to pop up everytime, especially if its the version where she is bruce's child and she does her own thing without being associated with the bat fam that much
Bat wing can be his technical support and just be on special missions in the field
Batwoman, can just operate on a diff. City like she usually is
Blue bird, not much of a fan of hers maybe like a random vigilante that just so happens to operate in gotham but not part of the family and butts heads with the bat fam.
Duke/Signal has a lowkey superpower and is a dayshift vigilante so he got his own stuff to do.
Not to mention Batman Inc and the fact that technically every country in DC universe have its own Batman that we almost never see. The concept so underused it's just buffles me why they even bother to introduce it in the first place
I think some characters especially new ones should be substitutes for Robin, Nightwing and Batgirl, if they need time off, but otherwise no need for some of these.
Everyone but Harley quinn can stay, it makes no sense for her to be in the batfamily.
But in my opinion, all of the batfamily were spectacular. But DC failed them, I mean they even failed tim drake (Still angry). Whether or not their lazy, or just find the main trio to be more popular.
I think it has and I don’t what do with them all, like I miss where it used to Batman on his own like in the 2004 Batman series before season 3
I even had a new member of the Bat family that is called the Bat king.
Batman, Nightwing, Oracle, Red Robin, Robin, Catwoman, Batgirl, Black Bat, Batwoman, Batwing, and Huntress are all you really need in the BatFamily in terms of costumed heroes
I always took the main core batfamily to be Bruce, Alfred,Nightwing,Red Hood, Red Robin, Spoiler, Batgirl(Cassandra), Oracle and Damian with the rest of them (duke,Ghostmaker,kate kane etc) being the outer batfamily
11:20 I would say this is where the Batfamily stops. Huntress, Duke, Cass and Steph are all really well written and interesting characters when they do get spotlight that they deserve their spots imo. As for Kate, she's also so compelling but like you said the writers just don't have a clue with what to do with her(and everyone else but to her a great extent)
Stop right there...
The answer to the question, is a resounding YES !!!
In modern DC comics, there are at least 20 Vigilantes in Gotham, about 10 speedsters in central city alone, give or take 13 Kryptonians in Metropolis, A bus load of Green lanterns of earth, the wonder girls are piling up, like, 5 superhero teams, NONE OF WHICH IS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE !
DC has lost what made it special. It is now a bloated corpse...but back then, it was a mystery and a beautiful treasure trove of hope and the pursuit of Justice. It didn't matter that the villains were more, Justice would prevail. Now, characters like Jai have more page time than Barry Allen in Barry's OWN BOOK !
Ridiculous.
I would like to know what you thought of Batman the Caped Crusader I personally love the show for its 1940s film noir feel and I think the writing is really good.
A 90's Wizard Magazine image is still in my mind, even though its 25 years later. Batman is standing in front of so many Robin costume memorials. Hes reaching out to another kid "pepe I want you to be the 74th Robin" 🤣
shit dawg! We had four Robins. Nightwing, Tim, one dead, the other elseworlds. two bat girls, one retconned to never had been one alongside the very dead retconned away Batwoman. Left Bartinelli Huntress and Azrial... both of which where not exactly "family" but allies Bruce kept a watchful eye on.
We need a Talia hot take
Respectfully, no
@@ZQPPS nah do it
Oooo. This has potential
Honestly though, i do like the idea that a one man war on crime and corruption has inspired a legion of Gothamites to not only be on Batman's side, but to fight alongside him, even former villains, and vigilantes who have turned away from murder as a means of solving the problem of crime. It's very inspiring...more importantly it sells merchandise. Case in point...If Flame Bird grew up and had a side kick of her own named Flame Thrower you'd buy the action figure. You know you would!
I don’t keep up with the comics, so it felt like it went from the classic 6 (Batman, 3 robins, batgirl, and Alfred) to a new robin making 7 (Damien) then all the sudden there’s 15 where did they come from help I have a bat infestation
Too big, Jarro should have been a Martian Manhunter sidekick… though it wouldn’t have been as cute lol
I would pare it down to Batman (Bruce), Nightwing, Robin (Damian), Batgirl (Barbara), and Alfred.
My preference
Alfred
Nightwing
Oracle
Red Hood
Red Robin
Black Bat
Robin
Signal
Or keep Tim as Robin
Huntress and Batwoman are there but not as connected.
Spoiler only if Clue Master exists, in that incarnation. Except The Batman, that Clue Master probably wouldn’t be able to make Stephanie.
Honestly yes there are new editions like Signal, Stephanie Brown/spoiler, Batwing, Harper row, Harley Quinn and Catwoman at some point, Clayface and Gotham girl (technically)
And it feels like DC hardly knows what to do with them, not everyone knows about or characters people would rather gravitate towards like Jason, Dick, Cassandra and Barbara.
I'd like to know Duke Thomas more but in most Batman comics he feels like a background or side character give him a few solo runs that are outstanding or have him serve an import role in New DC runs like absolute power
It's a similar situation with Spider-Man, you got miles, Gwen, Venom, Ben Riley, Kaine, Mile's clone, Black cat, Spider woman to a certain extent.
When DC doesn't know what to do with a strand of characters it becomes, "oh let's make them an anti hero!"
And then when it's a character in Gotham their first thought is to just make them an honorary member of the Bat-Family.
@@webtely true but DC still hasn't done anything substantial as of lately other than bonding with Cassandra Cain. The last thing I know what they did with her was fake her death, being pregnant and giving the baby up for adoption it's one of the things I mentioned about character like her and Duke being reduced to background characters
If I was doing it would just Batman having Alfred, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Catwoman and for the future era would be Helena Wayne and Batman Beyond that would be it.
Core members to me has always been:
Bruce
Alfred
Dick
Jason
Tim
Damian
Babs
Cassandra
Stephanie
Kate
Selina
Dick, Jason, Barbara, Cassandra, and Damian are always core family members for me. Outside of the New Batman Adventures, I haven’t seen enough of Tim to have any opinion on him. Stephanie only really became a superhero to go against her dad, so she’s always felt more like a solo character. Huntress counted as a member of the Bat Family back when she was Bruce’s daughter from another timeline, but Post-Crisis she’s only ever been Helena Bertinelli, and has little to do with the Bat Family at all. I haven’t been a fan of any version of Batwoman, especially since they made her Bruce’s cousin. I’m historically not a fan of pairing Bruce with Catwoman, since she always goes back to crime eventually, and pretty much every character added after Damian has felt rather half-baked. I’m a fan of Bruce taking in more kids, but I’d like them to be distinct within the family.
My Bat-Family is Batman, Alfred, Nightwing, Barb, Red Hood, Tim, Damian, and personally I like adding Catwoman plus have Lucious and Jim as like add-ons tbh Batwoman, Batwing, Duke, Spoiler, and Cassandra are unnecessary also what do you think of the Superman and or Flash families
I think it can just be the following:
1. Batman
2. Nightwing
3. Oracle
4.Alfred
5. Red hood
6. Red Robin
7. Orphan/Batgirl 2
8. Robin (Damien)
Tim & Damien would be in the titans/young justice. Barbara wouldn’t be on the field, Nightwing in bloodhaven. Jason doing his own thing with the outlaws. Leaving Batman,Alfred,Oracle & Cassandra. Only 2 people on the field
I’d imagine steph, Duke & Kate would be on their on thing.
I think the main bat family should be dick as nightwing, Tim and Damian as robin, Cass as batgirl and Barbra as oracle with Jason not being a villain but not really vibing with the bat fam
I agree with all points. However, ironically, this is what was Joker's motivation behind the Death of the Family arc.
I think members should leave and start somewhere like Dick, go against Batman ideologically in some way, or have an arc where a new villain appears that kills off a bunch of them.
I like the character Batwoman. But come on, she's the same case as Superman and Hulk "look, I have a cousin who is the female version of the hero" that tires me out. She can exist on a parallel Earth without any problems.
Duke Thomas and Luke Fox are almost the same character, Batwing and Signal, in short "young man with no experience in a bat armor", for me this is ridiculous because practically all Marvel and DC heroes have an NPC sidekick like that.
I only TOLERATE 4 Robins because they are all well built. Dick is the first one who evolved, Jason is the fallen hero, Tim is the most promising, Damian is the "legacy" Batman's son.
Personally, we get to thorny terrain: I like Cassandra Cain's Batgirl, and also Spoiler, since the 90s, but come on, it's clear in front of the reader that they only exist because Barbara, who is the best Batgirl, was crippled. The two are a mere artifice to fill the vacancy of a hero that was missing, just like Tim was for Jason before people came up with the idea of resurrection and Red Hood. If they are radically modified to be heroes outside the core Batfamily, such as: Hawk, Dove, Black Canary herself, have patrolled Gotham at some point, but that does not make them members of the Batfamily. Something along those lines, I can accept.
Other characters, like the forgettable Blue Bird or a name similar to that, man, come on. The Batman core is the biggest den of well-made characters that exists in the universe of heroes, only iconic people, then due to lack of creativity the editors come to create trash characters.
I realized that I forgot Huntress and Harley Quinn. Well, for me Huntress can be the same case as Hawk and Dove that I talked, as well as Question. Harley on the other hand, for me, she should've NEVER turned into a hero (or anti hero). She could simply still be part of Suicide Squad, mas theres no way Batman would work with literally a mass murderer that just because she was mistreated by the Joker and ended up "healing" and becoming good
@@m4sterpolk786 How can you be tired of it there aren't that many characters aren't like that in comics. By the way just because she's called she Hulk she is not the same as her cousin
If you think Duke Thomas and Lucius fox are the same, Then that means you've never read their comics or Paid attention to their characters or personalities. Lucius fox is a super genius who made that version of the batwing suit and Duke Thomas is an inexperienced kid who has to train under the bat family to harness his skills and to master his superpowers.
Depending on the continuity Harley Quinn hasn't actually killed anyone hurt some people's sure but hasn't killed anyone. Plus depending who's brightening Batman he can sometimes be up for giving guy especially if the criminal truly means to try and change.
@@kingj9664
You seem like the kind of guy who would say "Look man, T'Challa's Black Panther is VERY DIFFERENT from Shuri's Black Panther, man, because she's a princess and a scientist, and he's just a warrior prince".
Or even "look, buddy, Peter Parker and Miles Morales are VERY DIFFERENT man, Miles lives with his parents, has electrical powers and invisibility, while Peter is an orphan and lives with his aunt. They are completely different Spider-Men".
If thats the case, I cannot help you.
@@m4sterpolk786 The fact that you chose Sherri and Miles Morales makes me start to think you're part of a certain comic book group who Cries about the w word. You do know the black panther is a legacy character right? Meaning the only way for sure to become black panther is Chala leaves wakanda or He dies, Plus do you think that Challa was any different from when his father was the black panther.
Good I never asked nor want your helpGood I never asked nor want your help
@@kingj9664 You seem to be quite pretentious. Yes, I know that Black Panther is a legacy, the name means literally the guardian/king of Wakanda. That doesn't change the fact that T'Chaka, T'Challa and Shuri's Black Panther hero are exactly the same character. This is a case of a "legacy" hero whose mantle is passed on to you. It's the same case with the Green Lanterns, only instead of a legacy, they are a Police Corps. It makes sense to have several members who are the same, basically Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart are exactly the same hero archetype as Kyle Rayner, Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz, for example. And yet, that doesn't change the fact that they are the SAME HERO.
But when you get into issues like Wolverine, why do you feel the need for Laura (x-23) to also assume the heroic identity of Wolverine? That's Logan's unique name, it doesn't make sense that you would want multiple characters with the same name. It's the same problem that affected Tim Drake and Damian, who for a time were both known as "Robin." Thats the same case with Batman and Batwoman.
Batman only exist because Bruce was afraid of bats and wanted to use this against criminals. Why then is Kate Kane (ironically Bruce's cousin) the same hero, but a woman? Why you need to make everyone related to the hero, a hero too? And in a worst way, with the SAME NAME???
I guess the issue here is that some of these characters are not gotham heroes, but will return if they feel he needs support. Nightwing is the hero of bludhaven and a titan. Batman Inc. is international. Alfred is gone. But i feel i agree mostly, barbra needed to stay aa oracle, Cassandra as batgirl, others need to be cleaned up
Immediate Batfamily members: Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Alfred Pennyworth, Cassandra Cain,Tim Drake, Damian Wayne.
Extended family: Jadon Todd, Lucius Fox, Helena Bertinelli, Stephanie Brown.
Allies: Plastic Man, Selina Kyle, Jim Gordon, Jean Paul Valley, Harley Quinn.
I actually don't think Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown or Kate Kane need to exist. Much of the new characters are not even on my radar. Damian himself i struggled to attach to as a character. But he makes the most sense as a successor to Batman.
The Bat Family has too many members to the point that Gotham should be the safest city in the DC Universe.
It makes no sense its still such a hellhole if all those heroes are there. Theres even heroes that arent in the Bat family that work in Gotham from time to time too.