Duran Steals Home on Appeal to 1st
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
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He doesn't even touch Home Plate😮
Here's something that created this situation: White Sox pitcher Crochet mis-throws to first base BOTH times. That's a major league whiff and gives up two runs. Ouch.
According to the Box Score, he then pitched 3 scoreless inning and was credited with the Win.❤
@@dinog3052 Wait, the white Sox won after this? That's even more hilarious 😂
Not only that, but if you look closely at Home Plate as Duran crosses, it looks like he missed THAT too!
@@jonathonchalk6603 Yeah, I saw that, too. At least it looked like he did.
But can you score without touching all the bags? I remember if someone hit a home run but didn’t touch all the bags, he doesn’t score.
Awesome breakdown. Really like this type of content
Red Sox vs White Sox and a guy named Crochet on the mound. This was destiny!
Clever. 😊
Darn!
@@thirdlanternI see what you did here.
@@bradevans5566 Sew what?
@@thirdlantern Hole in One!!
From that angle, it sure looks like he missed home plate too. lol
That's what I thought at first too, but it's the batter's box chalk that he misses. He actually clearly steps on home.
😊 He Did
A variation of this happened either last year or 2022 - with Houston. They had runners on 2nd & 3rd, I believe, and I think it was a line drive caught by the shortstop who threw to 2B, trying to double R2. The throw was wild - on replay it was clear that (1) R2 did tag up before advancing to 3B on the wild throw, and (2) R3 did *not* tag up before running home. Not sure if the Houston dugout instructed this, or if it was the 3B coach, or if the runner himself did this - but the new R3, knowing his team was very likely about to lose a run on an appeal on the original R3, took off for home, got in a rundown, and was eventually tagged out. But the run now counted, since the fielding team had made a subsequent play to close the appeal window.
That would not close the appeal window. If I’m understanding you correctly the play continues, if that’s true they can still get a “4th” out on appeal. It’s not the same. In your case it appears to just be a mistake by the Def
I went back and found what you were talking about. The play did stop. They changed the appeal from a live ball to a dead ball. So when the pitcher stepped off the rubber and they started in the run down it canceled the appeal. If it was still a live ball appeal they could have completed the run down then do a dead appeal and it would have been a “4th out”. Once it’s a dead ball the only play they can make is on the appeal.
Love your channel. Great insight
Buck Showalter did this his first season as Mets manager. Had JD Davis break from second as pitcher stepped off to throw to first to challenge a call.
Looked it up found this. JD was on 1st and stole 2nd on throw for Appeal to 3rd base. They thought Smith left early on Sac Fly.
You covered it well. 💪
Love the analysis. Keep up the good work.
Thanks alot for this excellent and instructive vid! I could never teach this to my son, so I let you!! hehehe!! Looking forward to these great content!! Thanks Again!
this one was fun , keep it up
Great explanation. Thanks.
Why did crochet throw to first the 2nd time? No one was on
Great explanation of the all nuances. I did not know exactly when the appeal window closed and what constitutes the "next play" for the sake of that determination.
Duran should have rounded home and gone back to first lmao.
2:25 did Duran miss Home Plate as well?
Lmao. If you look he never even stepped on home plate either 🤣
Dude trolling everyone
Whoooops. Well done Duran.
On the appeal attempt at first base, WHY did the first baseman STRETCH for the throw? Just come off the base and catch the ball and then touch first base.
This was an inexcusable mistake by the manager. Really by the whole coaching staff. Someone on the bench should have known this play was reviewable.
Why did crochet throw to first when Vaughn was on 3rd? Can u explain
Doesn’t the pitcher stepping off the rubber to initiate the appeal process preclude the runner from advancing? Doesn’t he have to wait until the pitcher toes the rubber again?
Wow...that is friggin crazy...lol
This sort of interplay between the extraordinarily detailed rules and what actually happens in play, is among the fascination of baseball; I don't believe any other sport contains, or raises, the same, pitch by pitch, case by case, discrete, questions of the law of baseball. This is the key to baseball's special , unusual, appeal to lawyers, and to others trained to think, as lawyers are, about the factual details of an individual case, or play, against a background of written, necessarily in generalizations, law.... Jonathan Silver, Professor of Law.
Be aware, most youth games are played under NFHS rules which are different. You can appeal during a dead ball by just saying your appeal to the umpire. No need to put the ball in play and then throw over.
True, but still most be done before the next play occurs
That’s graduate level stuff there. Good post.
In your opinion, how big a gaffe was that by the White Sox? Excusable, or something the players and coaching staff should have been on top of?
Did he touch home plate? the way the video stops at the end it is hard to tell.
Our high school coach, Michael Silletti, went to prison for a year and a half for being "inappropriate" with our stat girls.
Mildly speaking of course
Holy phoque. Unforced errors all over the place. Crazy.
what about call time? then appeal first base.
Time is never out during an appeal. All appeals must be done with a live ball, which means that during the appeal process, runners are free to advance at their own risk. Of course, that's one of the nuances when making appeals after all the action has stopped and the pitcher has the ball on the mound.
That won't work. Under ML rules, all appeals must be done during a live ball.
The way I understand the rules, once you appeal you cannot also then challenge that play.
If Duran knew he missed first, why didn't he just go back and get it before running to second? Seems like he had time. (I guess it worked out for him, but he just got lucky.)
Couldn't the pitcher have appealed to third base and tagged the runner who never touched 1st base? Wouldn't that be another way to appeal?
Per baseball almanac, that’s what happened in 1921 but the 3rd base umpire could not make a ruling (didn’t see any infraction) so they then threw to 1st base and touched the base and 1st base umpire ruled him out.
Couldn’t the ChiSox have just challenged the call at first? Or was that not challengeable bc it wasn’t technically a safe/out call (due to the errant throw) and the batter-runner touched other bases after first base?
He said they could have challenged..
@@fuddshake it seems like they only could have challenged after the appeal
Umpires will not call a baserunner missing a bag or home plate. It's got to be challenged by the defense before the next play, just the way the White Sox did it. The umps blew it by not requiring Durant to go back to third because, regardless what the base umpire decides, the ball was not in play.
@@mikes805they could have challenge the appeal call of safe. I think that’s how it works.
@@daviddecelles8714the ball was in play (live) when pitcher is on pitching rubber. He then stepped off and threw to 1stBase to Appeal.
Can the pitcher just walk over to first base with the ball and step on first base instead of throwing the ball over to first base?
Yes.
Yes! I umpired softball and baseball for 30 years. I often wonder why coaches didn't instruct their pitchers to do this--especially if there were no runners on base when the appeal was being made (such as missing a base on a home run).
Yes, but the pitcher has to engage the rubber before he can ask for an appeal. And as soon as he engages the rubber the runners can advance. So if he just steps off and starts walking to first the runners are free to run and as Matt said if he then makes any other play to any other base that closes the appeal window. So in this case it wouldn’t have been any better and probably worse. But in the case where there’s nobody on base then yes the safest play would be to engage the rubber, then step off and walk to the base you wish to appeal at.
@@djp928if they make the correct call at first him walking over or throwing over would had same result. But since umps blew the call it become irrelevant. But either way(running or throwing) would have resulted in same result if umps got call correct.
@@djp928 "So in this case it wouldn’t have been any better" Technically, it would have been better as a runner advancing would not have mattered if the umpire called the runner out on appeal. And even if not, they could have then challenged the call (after the runner stopped advancing or reached home).
Is it a valid legal Appeal if the Pitcher instead of throwing to 1stBase runs to 3rd base and tags the runner ?? If the runner knows this rule, would run towards home and get in a rundown.
Nope. The appeal should be to the original base, not to where the runner is.
according to CCS it is. They have chart “Can I Appeal? Rule 5.09(c)” never seen it done. Not common way teams do it. If it’s ever done .
The runner SHOULD run towards home,. The original play started with a man on first. If you catch Duran trying to score... the other guy's run counts. If you get the out on Duran not reaching first - it doesn't.
@@miguelangelsucrelares5009From Wikipedia- To properly execute a live ball appeal, a fielder must, with a live ball, tag the runner or base in question and communicate to the umpire what the infraction was and which runner committed the infraction.
@@fionam3554this is an Appeal play after Duran already made it to 3rd base on the throwing error. The run scored. The Defense is Appealing Duran did not Touch 1st Base.
Whitesocks asked if they could appeal and the umps said "no you cant" then walked off and gsve a thumbs up to red socks... either the umps were wrong or you are, either way they 100% asked to challenge the call.
Did Duran step on home?
I didn’t think he missed first. How about a photo close up of the foot and the bag
I saw it on tv but wasn’t able to find that shot again. He definitely was short though
@@AntonelliBaseball What about home? It looked like he missed that, too.
@@AntonelliBaseball Yeah on the slow mo TV replay you can see his whole foot is down on the dirt before the base. On the other hand there's not much if any daylight between the toe or his cleat and the side of the bag. I reckon either the 1B ump didn't see it live... or gave him the benefit of the doubt as his toe maybe, possibly, arguably... musta! dragged across the top of the base incidentally, on the next stride?
This is sort of "baseball cousin" to middle infielders (pretty routinely) NOT explicitly stepping on 2B bag while turning double plays, but just incidentally sweeping their foot over the bag. Sometimes way over but still getting the call due to benefit of the doubt or contact / presumed contact with the SIDE of the bag. No rule says gotta step on top.
Coach, what's the difference between the written rule (about actually touching 2B on defense, or 1B bag say rounding for an attempted double ) and what is actually coached or done in practice?
Umpire should have called Duran out on the appeal. But, he probably did not see him miss the base and thought that he had touched it.
yep. And White Sox manager couldve challenged that missed call
Unless you are saying that the first base umpire saw him miss the base and still called him safe….then he should not have called him out. That is why the challenge exists….to address the possibility that something happened (or didn’t).
@@mptr1783 Yes. He could have. But more importantly, umpire could have called him out on the appeal. To save time of a challenge.
@@HomerErectus The umpire probably didn't see it, which is why MLB has replay reviews for this type of stuff in the first place.
@@freezer8530 Sadly, manager did not request a replay.
High school umpire here. How does the 1st baseman missing the throw from the pitcher on the appeal attempt keep the appeal window open if the new play by the runner from 3rd closes it?
They didn't attempt to make A play on the runner going home. And in high school, this won't work. You can make a dead ball appeal and don't need to even throw. Just say, Mr umpire, the runner missed first. That's it. Umpire makes the call. Coach or any player can appeal that way in NFHS rules.
@@MH-Tesla I've never had a verbal appeal. I am old enough to remember in high school the umpire had to call it even if it wasn't appealed.
My understanding is that MLB differentiates between defensive plays and offensive plays with regards to appeals. It doesn't matter that the runner on third is going home as that does not remove the appeal by the defense.
From what I read, as long as the ball doesn’t go out-of-play it’s still live and they can still Appeal by touching 1stBase.
@@SgvSth True, the runner going home does not remove the ability to appeal. But if the defense attempts to make a play on him, they can no longer appeal.
I just came from CloseCallSports video of this. You covered everything, and with perhaps more clarity.
I'd rather hear it from an ex baseball player than an alphabet person.
From this video, I would call the runner safe at first. There wasn't any definitive evidence either way.
I would have thrown to 3rd an tagged him and said he missed 1st base.
Why does a clip take so long to explain and show?
I’m not sure I just must be slow
Start your own channel and show us all how it's done.
I dont believe that should be legal. With all the confusion
Let me get this straight... You have the White Sox playing the Red Sox and Crochet is on the mound? No one sees the humor in that? No one can weave a yarn like that.... Too funny.
😂
Some helpful feedback: you need to get to the story quicker. Don't just show us a still shot of a pitcher on the mound as you talk in the background. FYI.
I believe when pitcher makes error throwing to 1B they lose the appeal.
They don't as long as it didn't go out of play.
Just appeal by stepping off, telling the first base umpire you are going to appeal, and walking over and tagging the runner. The base is only one way to appeal.
Could they just please get the ball to first base somehow.
If you can't throw it to the first baseman throw it to somebody who can.
I'm so glad you covered this play. I think it may be even more bizarre than you maintain. In my opinion, since the appeal procedure was correctly enacted, even though the first baseman had to go and retrieve the ball he missed from the pitcher; but came back to the bag and asked for the appeal without making any play; and even though the umpire was incorrect in not calling Durant out, Durant should not have been allowed to score but should have been required to return to third because the ball was not in play. The appeal formality, if done right, precedes the ball being next in play (no matter what the umpire's call might be) and, even though there was the glitch of the first baseman having to chase the ball down, he did not "try to make a play" which, if he had, the practice or custom seems to be that the umps will then treat the ball as being in play; but that did not happen. This was a terrible error by the umpires and, in my opinion, given all of the circumstances making up this play, it is extremely rare and I sincerely wonder if it's ever happened before.
Ball is by rule in play. In MLB you are not allowed to appeal with the ball not in play.
Respectfully disagree.
You can't make an appeal until the ball is in play. Additionally, straight from the rule book: "Time is not out when an appeal is being made."
@@daviddecelles8714 this isn't a matter of opinion.... you're wrong.
I'm confused, Duran gets to third on a bad throw to first. So why does the pitcher subsequently throw to first with no runner on first base like that?
That's how you make the appeal. The first baseman is supposed to catch the ball and step on the bag, then the umpire makes a call. In this case, the 1B apparently retrieved the loose ball and stepped on the bag, but the ump (incorrectly) signaled safe. For some reason they did not challenge it to NY; if they had the ruling would likely have been overturned.
It is an appeal in progress. They throw to first for the force out saying he never touched the base. Then they would video review it and see if it can be confirmed or not that the runner touched the base.
Procedure to Appeal that runner did not touch 1st Base.
@@pugmalley isn’t video review only on challenge process??
It's worse than that because not only did the ump miss the appeal call but the crew let Durant score when the ball was not in play! And I'm a Red Sox fan!
Coach, great explanation. However you missed the main element in my opinion. It’s a lefty pitcher and this is definitely a big no-no to pick off on 1st when there is someone on third, especially after you missed the throw the first time. Compound error.
Um what?
If the pitcher initially steps back off the rubber, he can do anything he wants without it being called a balk (except pitching the ball to the batter).
It looks like Duran also interfered on the initial throw to first base.
First for MLB the rule is about interfering with the player receiving the catch (first baseman) not the thrower (pitcher).
The batter runner does run outside the runner's lane (in the grass) the last half to first, so inference is possible but not guaranteed at the MLB level.
The throw has to have a reasonable chance of retiring the runner. That reason is why I don't have interference because of the bad throw.
If the throw was better than I would agree with you.
Good point but he’s lefty batter naturally hustling inside the baseline
@dinog3052 it's called the runner's lane (home to first) and the batter runner definitely ran outside of it (he stepped on the grass). At that point it doesn't matter if he goes back to the lane. The rule for this situation is once you run outside, you can still be at fault even if you move back to the correct spot.
@@holmj12 who’s call is to make this obstruction ?? Home plate Ump or 1stBase
@dinog3052 home plate umpire. And it's interference (obstruction is only committed by the fielding team). IMO the no call is correct because of the bad throw.
Batting team commits interference
Fielding team commits obstruction
(I remember this because B for batting is earlier in the alphabet than F for fielding and i for interference is earlier in the alphabet than O for obstruction)
Lets Crochet white socks and red socks
Plot twist: Runner never touched 2nd, 3rd, or home either. (OK, maybe not.)
Is that you, Marvelous Marv?
MLB really needs to start enforcing the rule to keep first and third base coaches in their boxes. It's annoying seeing them so far out of their boxes.
Hands down the silliest thing to be annoyed by. Are you also annoyed when players dont run exactly on top of chalk lines as well?
When and why did MLB create a basecoach box if it were not neccessary for the game.@@Mudrabbit308
@Mudrabbit308 the commenter is the same umpire that ejected Adrian beltre for not standing on the on deck circle. I would consider apologizing to him before you get ejected from this comment section
@@Mudrabbit308this is what I was coming to say. Is it really that annoying?
Didn't look like he miss3d 1st base to me to begin with lol
Appeal rules are ridiculous. Did anyone see what happened in that minor league game in Midland?
Throw to third & tag the runner
You could do that ... IF AND ONLY IF the runner were to just simply cooperate by staying on the third base bag, making it easy for you to execute the appeal on him that way. Of course, the runner who knows that he missed a base is never going to cooperate with the defense and may try to steal the next base. You might get him in a rundown and get him out that way; but that action would close that appeal and any other appeals from the previous play. In this situation, it may not matter how you get the out unless it becomes the third out of the inning and runs have scored on the previous play.
In any case, after the action has stopped and the pitcher has the ball on the mound, it's a lot easier to concentrate on throwing to the missed base since that always remains stationary throughout the entire game.
You like these plays? To me plays like these just expose the flaws Of the game of baseball.
Shouldn't the White Sox have discussed the possibility before the appeal that Duran might try to steal home? The smart play would have been to just ignore his attempted steal, and then patiently make the appeal throw to third. Then it wouldn't have mattered if he stole home, because he would have been out anyway. Of course, then you still have to deal with the bad call at first, but they couldn't have known that would happen.
The problem was caused by missing the ball. Otherwise, the first baseman just steps on the bag.
They did take a mound visit before this and discussed. At least that’s what I read in an interview
The smart play would be using the other Appeal process. Pitcher steps off pitching rubber. Runs to 3rd base line then up towards the base runner and tags him and say “Appeal, this runner did not touch 1st base” This lets them defend the runner from attempting to steal home.
@@dinog3052 I think Durran would sprinted home and forced a throw before the pitcher could have gotten to the line
@@AntonelliBaseballit ain’t easy trying to get a Leadoff hitter (fromLongBeachState) Out on the bases even on an Appeal.
What you missed: Base runner going to first (the guy who missed the bag) was running out of his lane, it should have been interference against the runner.
The runner has a right to go to the base. The “lane” doesn’t continue all the way to the bag.
In 2024 the runner can be anywhere in the dirt because MLB got tired of arguments like this.
He didn’t miss it, it was the topic being discussed.
Sorry wasn’t the topic being discussed
The rule is, you must appeal within 15 seconds after the play is dead. The manager should have known that, and or at least someone should have known that. He had plenty of time to do so. That’s inexcusable.
When Duran stole home, why did the pitcher throw the ball to 1st base with no Red Sox player there?
He didn’t. Vaughn was there and he isn’t very good so he missed it
Why in the heck wouldn’t the White Sox challenge it? They obviously knew he missed the bag or they wouldn’t have appealed. What a brain fart.
Man. It’s the white Sox. They are having a historically bad season. They just want the games to be over. 😆
Pitch clock has no place in baseball. Not part of the game.
Hopefully, they can get new customers and survive.
Dude we gotta get you a new mic.
It’s just the room I do it in. My office has the sounds bouncing all over the walls
Am i the only one who see him missing the bag from the first basemens glove interfering with this stretch
Yes cause that’s not interference
@PRichards1981 Rhetorical question.
Having no DH in the National League makes managing a little easier in that league.
Are you from 2021
having a DH makes managing easier, not harder. You never have to decide to lift a pitcher who has been effective but may be tied or down a run. And the NBL approved the abomination anyway.
Is that a serious comment? There hasn't been a DH in the NL for a few years now...
Why couldn't they just challenge right away why have to throw to first and appeal
Until the appeal is made, there is nothing to challenge.
Can’t challenge until there’s a Safe or Out call. Which happened on the Appeal.
And that folks, is why the Chi Sox are the worst team in baseball.
Well, their manager should have not only sought a review of the first base call but also should have argued that the ball is not in play on an appeal of a mised bag, so a runner cannot advance.
Somehow they were able to Win this game 7-2 and end a losing streak.
Jesus just show the play over the constant stop reverse stop stutter nonsense