Brothers and sisters, God's electing love is not based on our future performance: 📕 Romans 9:11-13 "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" (Rom. 9:11-13) We love God because He performs His work on our hearts: 📕 Deut. 30:6 "And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."
When I just started to study about doctrines of Grace, I've saw miserable and sinful I was. Amazing grace saved a wretch like me! Thank you Jesus for saved me!
I think in Ephesians paul is speaking about corporate election- “us.” From the beginning of time he chose to save those who believe in Christ. To make Jew and gentile one people. You have to read whole letter to get context. I guess your saying that my view is the unconditional view? I think this debate complicates salvation and we loose a lot of new believers or teens growing up in the church. I’ve been a believer for 55 years, just learning about this and conditional election is a hard pill to swallow. Now I’m wondering if I’m elect, and is the wonderful relationship I’ve enjoyed all these years just in my head? Ive been trusting scripture’s revelation of Jesus Christ, that he loves the whole world, not just some.
I agree if election is true we cannot know if we are saved and that is scary. I hold to your position, the believer is predestinated to salvation, glory, to be in Christ. Not necessarily Brock Story. Believers were predestinated. I don't find it that difficult to me.
Thank you to Got Questions Ministries for having these discussions on these theological issues. This is a blessing and helps individual Christians to grow within the body of Christ.
Hi, I'm enjoying this series. Thank you for it. I made a comment in one of the earlier ones when you misspoke using hyper-Calvinist incorrectly. Can you listen at around the 26:30 point. Did you mean to use it there or was that incorrect again?
The unconditional election episode was recorded before the total depravity episode was published and I was corrected on the distinction between full Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism. I was more careful from this episode forward. Thank you again for the feedback.
That's not true. It does not matter whether we can or cannot see if someone is elected. According to reformed theology/calvinism, if someone's elected, they're elected by God's choice and there is nothing we can do to change it.
@@vincelapoint How would you know if he is not elected by God outwardly? No matter what, we will still evangelize to him. How would you know if he will not accept Jesus on his death bed? Thus no matter what, we will keep evangelizing regardless elected or not.
@@dank2476It doesn't matter if we know or not. According to the doctrine of predetermined salvation, if they're elected, they're going to be saved regardless of what you do. Your actions won't change a thing wrt to someone's salvation according to this false doctrine. But because the doctrine IS false, your actions DO matter.
@@vincelapoint The point is one will never know if one is elected or not, only God knows. Thus, it makes sense to evangelize as we will never know one is elected or not.
I don't see why faith is considered earning your salvation. Paul argues that faith is the opposite of works and no one can boast in faith. Salvation is all God's doing, faith is our reaction to a God who reached out to us, if all can believe then it isn't a boast. I push back against valvanism because it damages the character of God revealed to us in all of Scripture. If you don't think God reacts to our decisions then read through all of the prophets. If God isn't reacting to people's choice to either repent or not then it sure makes God out to be telling people to do something that they cannot do and then he gets angry about the choice they never could make. I would recommend looking up provisionalism, this has been the best interpretation of Ephesians Romans etc that makes the most sense with the character of God revealed in the scripture.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:3-12)
I was on the site and asked. Was cain and abel twins. Had nothing to show. Are they twins. Because the way the scriptures present them when they are born. It looks like they was twins.
When there is uncertainty as to the context of a particular verse I think we should be taking a prudent approach. Alternatively, we can evaluate the verse in the context of the Bible as a whole. If God overrides our free will then there is no point in having free will. God did not prevent Eve from eating the apple because that was her free will (eating the apple did not give her free will, she had it already - this is a lie of the snake). She bore the consequences of her actions. God did not predestine Eve to fail. God's sovereignty does not mean He will purposefully fail us. His sovereignty means no one can override His decision. When someone is preaching, he has a stronger faith relative to the congregation. He has to consider the impact of his teaching on the faith of the congregation or viewers. E.g. if someone preaches about rapture but then there is none, the preacher might still be able to overcome this and continue with his faith because his belief was not solely based on this event but it might not be the case for many members of his congregation. Stay on firm ground to remain faithful till the end.
Your issue is your understanding of what “free will” really means and how that plays out. See Martin Luther’s Bondage of the Will and Jonathan Edwards’ Freedom of the Will…both highly regarded historical Christian leaders who would affirm unconditional election. There are nuances to what it means to have “free” will which are discussed in these and many other books.
The regenerate man is granted the gift of faith and the gift of repentance and that repentance is accomplished through prayer. Prayer will continue beyond repentance as the regenerate man strives to be holy as God is holy, deepening his love, faith and obedience for and to the Father and the Son.
If a novel is well written, we talk about how stupid a certain character may be; if it is not well written, we talk about how stupid the author is. With a well written novel, we tend to think of the characters as having choice, even though everything in the book came out of the author's head. God uses a different media to record His story and He interacts with His story in a way no other author can. I think unconditional election is right, but not the whole story; there is something more going on. If two views seem to have merit but appear mutually exclusive and neither deny the goodness of God, then maybe the mutual exclusivity really is only an appearance. How powerful, then, is the Lord God Almighty!
Thank God for absolute sovereignty in all things. I don't even know why we are obsessed with man and his opinions. Let God be true and EVERY man a liar
It creates more confusion when we say that scripture teaches both Unconditonal Election and doesn't teach it. I know it's hard to accept at first, but all scripture confirms Unconditional Election. God has a moral will (wanting all to come to repentance), but He has a sovereign will that is different. He only grants repentance to some (Acts 5:31, 2 Tim 2:25). God readies the ungodly for punishment: 📕 2 Peter 2:9 "then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment," (2 Pet. 2:9) Free will is not what we usually think it is. Prior to our new birth, our natural instincts are corrupted due to our enslavement to sin (Jn 8:34).
I did not get they were trying to say Scriptures teach unconditional election and doesn't teach it. Rather predestination and human choice somehow work together for the results we have. I would call it a paradox. If this were understandable, Psalm 131 would not have been written.
@Adrenalean767 Hi, John 3:16 doesn't promise universal salvation. It says that we must put our faith in Jesus. Jesus died on the cross to save people, not just make them saveable. The question isn't so much "why doesn't God save everyone," but instead: "why does He save any at all?" Jesus is understanding, as it is the same posture that Peter had in John 21:21. But let us see God rightly. Shalom to you.
@@Adrenalean767 It is an interesting concept that God would reject some people and yet die for their sins. Is what is true for a finite existence still true in the infinite?
If one chooses to believe in God then all honor and glory goes to the believer. Therefore in order to honor and give glory to God; it is He who chooses.
I'd love for you guys to discuss this with Leighton Flowers. Unlike some on youtube, I think you guys will address his actual points and show how he is incorrect, rather than insulting his character.
Brothers and sisters, God's electing love is not based on our future performance:
📕 Romans 9:11-13
"for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'"
(Rom. 9:11-13)
We love God because He performs His work on our hearts:
📕 Deut. 30:6
"And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."
When I just started to study about doctrines of Grace, I've saw miserable and sinful I was.
Amazing grace saved a wretch like me! Thank you Jesus for saved me!
Thank y'all for discussing this topic using Scripture. Much about this topic is mysterious. GOD IS IN CONTROL
Thank you for this series!
Predestination by foreknowledge is not the same as Predestination by predetermination.
I think in Ephesians paul is speaking about corporate election- “us.” From the beginning of time he chose to save those who believe in Christ. To make Jew and gentile one people. You have to read whole letter to get context. I guess your saying that my view is the unconditional view? I think this debate complicates salvation and we loose a lot of new believers or teens growing up in the church. I’ve been a believer for 55 years, just learning about this and conditional election is a hard pill to swallow. Now I’m wondering if I’m elect, and is the wonderful relationship I’ve enjoyed all these years just in my head? Ive been trusting scripture’s revelation of Jesus Christ, that he loves the whole world, not just some.
I agree if election is true we cannot know if we are saved and that is scary. I hold to your position, the believer is predestinated to salvation, glory, to be in Christ. Not necessarily Brock Story. Believers were predestinated. I don't find it that difficult to me.
Thank you to Got Questions Ministries for having these discussions on these theological issues. This is a blessing and helps individual Christians to grow within the body of Christ.
Hi, I'm enjoying this series. Thank you for it.
I made a comment in one of the earlier ones when you misspoke using hyper-Calvinist incorrectly. Can you listen at around the 26:30 point. Did you mean to use it there or was that incorrect again?
The unconditional election episode was recorded before the total depravity episode was published and I was corrected on the distinction between full Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism. I was more careful from this episode forward. Thank you again for the feedback.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.Rom.4:3
Even if we believe in election, we still need to evangelize because outwardly we cannot see one is elected or not.
That's not true. It does not matter whether we can or cannot see if someone is elected. According to reformed theology/calvinism, if someone's elected, they're elected by God's choice and there is nothing we can do to change it.
@@vincelapoint How would you know if he is not elected by God outwardly? No matter what, we will still evangelize to him. How would you know if he will not accept Jesus on his death bed? Thus no matter what, we will keep evangelizing regardless elected or not.
@@dank2476It doesn't matter if we know or not. According to the doctrine of predetermined salvation, if they're elected, they're going to be saved regardless of what you do. Your actions won't change a thing wrt to someone's salvation according to this false doctrine. But because the doctrine IS false, your actions DO matter.
@@vincelapoint The point is one will never know if one is elected or not, only God knows. Thus, it makes sense to evangelize as we will never know one is elected or not.
Chosen in him, this doesn’t mean God picks an specific individual to be in the body, it can be that believers are predestinated
I don't see why faith is considered earning your salvation. Paul argues that faith is the opposite of works and no one can boast in faith. Salvation is all God's doing, faith is our reaction to a God who reached out to us, if all can believe then it isn't a boast.
I push back against valvanism because it damages the character of God revealed to us in all of Scripture. If you don't think God reacts to our decisions then read through all of the prophets. If God isn't reacting to people's choice to either repent or not then it sure makes God out to be telling people to do something that they cannot do and then he gets angry about the choice they never could make.
I would recommend looking up provisionalism, this has been the best interpretation of Ephesians Romans etc that makes the most sense with the character of God revealed in the scripture.
Seems if what these guys are saying Paul should have just said "its not of works, God chose you."
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
(Ephesians 1:3-12)
וַתֹּ֣סֶף לָלֶ֔דֶת אֶת־אָחִ֖יו אֶת־הָ֑בֶל וַֽיְהִי־הֶ֙בֶל֙ רֹ֣עֵה צֹ֔אן וְקַ֕יִן הָיָ֖ה עֹבֵ֥ד
אֲדָמָֽה׃
What has happened to the rest of the series?
Thank you for your words, they are so needed.
I was on the site and asked. Was cain and abel twins. Had nothing to show. Are they twins. Because the way the scriptures present them when they are born. It looks like they was twins.
❤
He has granted to you not only to believe in Him PHILLIPIANS 1:29a
When there is uncertainty as to the context of a particular verse I think we should be taking a prudent approach. Alternatively, we can evaluate the verse in the context of the Bible as a whole.
If God overrides our free will then there is no point in having free will. God did not prevent Eve from eating the apple because that was her free will (eating the apple did not give her free will, she had it already - this is a lie of the snake). She bore the consequences of her actions. God did not predestine Eve to fail. God's sovereignty does not mean He will purposefully fail us. His sovereignty means no one can override His decision.
When someone is preaching, he has a stronger faith relative to the congregation. He has to consider the impact of his teaching on the faith of the congregation or viewers. E.g. if someone preaches about rapture but then there is none, the preacher might still be able to overcome this and continue with his faith because his belief was not solely based on this event but it might not be the case for many members of his congregation. Stay on firm ground to remain faithful till the end.
Your issue is your understanding of what “free will” really means and how that plays out. See Martin Luther’s Bondage of the Will and Jonathan Edwards’ Freedom of the Will…both highly regarded historical Christian leaders who would affirm unconditional election. There are nuances to what it means to have “free” will which are discussed in these and many other books.
The regenerate man is granted the gift of faith and the gift of repentance and that repentance is accomplished through prayer. Prayer will continue beyond repentance as the regenerate man strives to be holy as God is holy, deepening his love, faith and obedience for and to the Father and the Son.
Why does Jesus not tell us how to be born again, but just that we have to be.
If a novel is well written, we talk about how stupid a certain character may be; if it is not well written, we talk about how stupid the author is. With a well written novel, we tend to think of the characters as having choice, even though everything in the book came out of the author's head. God uses a different media to record His story and He interacts with His story in a way no other author can. I think unconditional election is right, but not the whole story; there is something more going on. If two views seem to have merit but appear mutually exclusive and neither deny the goodness of God, then maybe the mutual exclusivity really is only an appearance. How powerful, then, is the Lord God Almighty!
#2
Thank God for absolute sovereignty in all things. I don't even know why we are obsessed with man and his opinions. Let God be true and EVERY man a liar
It creates more confusion when we say that scripture teaches both Unconditonal Election and doesn't teach it.
I know it's hard to accept at first, but all scripture confirms Unconditional Election.
God has a moral will (wanting all to come to repentance), but He has a sovereign will that is different.
He only grants repentance to some (Acts 5:31, 2 Tim 2:25).
God readies the ungodly for punishment:
📕 2 Peter 2:9
"then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,"
(2 Pet. 2:9)
Free will is not what we usually think it is. Prior to our new birth, our natural instincts are corrupted due to our enslavement to sin (Jn 8:34).
I did not get they were trying to say Scriptures teach unconditional election and doesn't teach it. Rather predestination and human choice somehow work together for the results we have. I would call it a paradox. If this were understandable, Psalm 131 would not have been written.
So people go to hell because God rejected them,not because they rejected christ. So much for John 3:16
@Adrenalean767
Hi,
John 3:16 doesn't promise universal salvation. It says that we must put our faith in Jesus.
Jesus died on the cross to save people, not just make them saveable.
The question isn't so much "why doesn't God save everyone,"
but instead: "why does He save any at all?"
Jesus is understanding, as it is the same posture that Peter had in John 21:21.
But let us see God rightly. Shalom to you.
@@Adrenalean767 It is an interesting concept that God would reject some people and yet die for their sins. Is what is true for a finite existence still true in the infinite?
@@gummylens5465 That sounded like a rote answer for a question that was not asked.
Thank each of you very much. Maranatha!
Thank God in mercy HE chooses some because in our depravity we refuse HIS claims on us. Thank you Jesus
the question is how does he choose and how does he predestinate.
If one chooses to believe in God then all honor and glory goes to the believer. Therefore in order to honor and give glory to God; it is He who chooses.
yes, there's a lot of hostility about God's absolute sovereignty.
Answer: It is the 2nd tenet of Reformed theology in Calvinism. Aka. T.U.L.I.P.
Amen.
I'd love for you guys to discuss this with Leighton Flowers. Unlike some on youtube, I think you guys will address his actual points and show how he is incorrect, rather than insulting his character.
Third option, I think not.
Why not?
There are very few scriptures that go against the Calvinist idea, but so very many that go against the Arminian scheme!
He causes the sheep to hear, and understand .This is how he decided to accomplish his purpose.
God is only accepting those who will do the work, even though they Don't have to.