EVERYONE is talking about THIS WOOFER! | Purifi SPK5 Review
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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First I must applaud you for taking a run at this review. But it should be made clear that Purify is not in the speaker business, they are into making quality drivers. I would suggest visiting their website to learn more about this driver and why the removal of intermodulation distortion is so important for what you *don’t* hear from a driver; the “clarity” you spoke of. If you live in the Dallas / Fort Worth metroplex you must give Toby Speakers a call and set an appointment to go see and hear how they have incorporated these drivers into their speaker designs. The ability of these drivers to “disappear” is understated in this review. Toby has 4 Purify’s surrounding a waveguide, sitting on top of two opposing active subs for each speaker. Powerful yet so delicate, it just has to be heard. My next upgrade will be to Purify no second thoughts!
I'm from Panther City. I didn't know Toby was still around! I built a pair of their 2.4's back in '77 or so.
Oh yes and they have some outstandingly great new speakers. Give True Taylor a call ( check the website )
Hi Ron. Interesting review of the new Purifi technologies. Too bad you do not get along with AMT tweeters that certainly muddied the waters. I have been enjoying Purifi PTT6.5 woofers since May 2020 and based on my experience am a bit surprised you were not more impressed by the depth and power of bass these are capable of. The SPK5 design NRD has is just a couple of inches larger than the LS50, on stands they take the same space out of one’s room. Pausing and screen capturing the SPK5 vs LS50 response you posted at 10:10 the SPK5 has 8 dB more bass at 40 Hz, 10 dB more at 35 Hz, and 12 dB more at 30 Hz vs the industry standard for reasonable stand mount LS50. The difference between 80dB bass vs 68 dB bass at 30 Hz is profound. The “less heft in bass” issue you discuss around the 8:00 mark I would lay at the feet of your LOTS setup which tunes for imaging over bass. Your love affair with big woofered open baffle systems fits perfectly into LOTS while challenging stand mount box speakers.
I’ve found over and over that his conclusions do not align with quantitative data.
Thanks for the review Ron. I suspect the tweeter issue you are hearing is a lack of integration caused by the differing directivity of the tweeter and woofer. They really need to be crossed lower down, but a small AMT won't be able to handle that. If you were to measure horizontally off axis, you'd see the lack of integration, with a big dip and boost in the treble.
Thanks Dan, I did measure them and horizontal off axis looked good. Vertical had some issues and we can see a hole in response there for sure. I do think you might be correct about the integration though.
@@Newrecordday2013 Maybe try replacing the passive crossover with a steep linear phase active crossover. ;)
@@Newrecordday2013 Could you post the horizontal off axis plot? Physics says there will be a big wobble between 1 and 5KHz because of the high crossover. A crossover of 2KHz or lower is more normal for a 6.5" + tweeter format. Really appreciate your digging into the technical side in your reviews, by the way. Both subjective and objective review methods have the limitations, but together you get a fuller picture of what's going on.
Solid review, Obi Ron. You had me til $380...
Half the price of a used Cessna.
@@Newrecordday2013 I’m sure they’re awesome. Some day... some day...
@@cheapaudioman Could be a DIY mono/one-speaker review? Haha
The All New Salk Audio Bepure 3 speakers use these Purifi Woofers !
One of the best speakers money can buy matched with a good Tube amp !
Ron, Great honest review. Any chance of reviewing a ZU speaker in the near future?
I've also noticed that AMT tweeters have a sound. I've heard AMT tweeters with less of a signature, but everything I have heard has it. I don't care for them personally. Props for picking it out and commenting on it.
“Signature” comes from crossover, I think.
AMT tweeters can be awesome if properly implemented. They go to a level of pure and clean that other forms of tweeter rarely match. Martin Logan Motion 40's for instance, very nice. If you heard a bad sounding speaker with an AMT, don't blame the AMT itself. It's likely that AMT tweeters will become much more prevalent on all but the cheapest speakers, IMO.
This is the first video I see of your channel and, well, so many compliments for your approach, the way you express your thoughts and the clarity of the concepts lead to this review / evaluation. Good work and keep doing this. Subscription, bell activated and thumbs up for the video! :)
I was hoping to hear a little bit about the function of that surround. Pretty gnarly looking. But if it serves a purpose I'm all for it. Maybe they can come up with a larger driver for better impact for a three way model.
Ron I’ve had the same experience with AMT’s. While i enjoy the sound they do certainly draw attention to themselves even when rolled off. I wasn’t sure if i was a lone in that so it’s cool you mentioned that.
Good points you make. I also feel a bit like that with Ceramic driver units on speakers.
Yet another great review! Thanks!
amt tweeters in audiovector speakers sound fantastic
The surrounds remind me of some 1950’s seamonster gills..
AMT tweeters have 0 phase delay at any frequency and the impedance is constant throughout the range. whereas a regular voice coil speaker usually has wild impedance swings and they delay the signal at certain frequencies
Ron you should maybe get a set from Joseph Crowe a transmissionline line based on Purifi woofer and superb waveguide. Joseph is too good.
Looking at putting together one of his kits.
I love my Beyma TPL150H AMT tweeters.
It’s a good driver. But I still prefer the off-axis pattern control that horns provide. A good large format midrange horn still has more clarity by virtue of its controlled directivity.
My issues with class d is it is generally too powerful for it to not have high range attenuation, many think that there's a hiss in the high range, I personally feel that the power of a class d amplifier is the reasoning behind the high pitched hiss that is commonly misconstrued, generally speaking theres allot of overall power in class d on all frequency ranges whilst the other class a/b or class a amplifiers tend to make the bulk of it's power in the lower to mid range frequencies and fall off at the higher range frequencies
The obvious and striking thing about the woofer is the design of the surround. The first thing I thought of is that it is probably designed to do the same thing that the new KEF KC62 subwoofer surround is doing - resisting buckling from increased air pressure (positive and negative) inside the cabinet, that is more acute with a long throw woofer. Most of the time, the surround is just made thicker to stop the buckling, but that means it is much stiffer, and obviously, that is not a good thing for lowering distortion.
Having said that, to my novice level understanding, I would have expected the Qts (overall damping) factor to be higher than the 0.26 that (I think?) this driver has. The complicated name/model of the driver that you spoke is *close* to one of the drivers they show, and that is where I saw the Qts spec.
The other thing that is unusual - is the cabinet is a mass loaded transmission line, essentially. The port is pretty long, and their drawing shows that it is folded/bent with two 90 degree turns up and then back toward the tweeter. The angled baffle inside behind the woofer traps higher frequencies, to limit how much they reflect back out through the woofer cone.
It seems like, from what you have said, that they largely succeeded at the "main" parts of their design. The tweeter selection could be swapped for another, and it would not affect the woofer and cabinet design - which are very complex and interdependent.
Ron - super good drop
You are STILL The OG man
Keep going
So, what tweeter would work? A larger soft dome to allow for a mellow crossover?
I am no expert, but it seems the 3.2kHz crossover is a bit too high even for a well behaved 6.5" woofer. 3200Hz has a wavelength of 4.2375" - considerably smaller than the 6.5" diameter of the woofer - so the woofer's dispersion gets "beamy" and narrow at about 2kHz, which has a wavelength of 6.5". So, I would guess that a tweeter that can comfortably crossover at 1.8-2kHz would be a better choice. If the tweeter had an Fs at or below 1kHz, that would be good. I think that a dual ring tweeter would be a good choice.
@@NeilBlanchard I agree. A waveguide with a diameter similar to the woofer would help too.
Hi Ron. Our installation experience in different drivers suggest that they are both good but has different tonal qualities. Sometimes speaker of same brand much better than mix and match drivers because harder to blend. Great job
Thanks for sharing
Use audiocheck.net and compare different thd levels, that way you can tell if you can actually hear the difference of the lower distortion midbass drivers.
Dany should look at the crossover :D
Matched a ecw536 from morel with a Mundorf 19cm completely flat. They disappear completely.
Literally was watching your 3 hour live stream then bammmm!!...this pops up 😁 I was quite excited I must say.
Hi Ron, I see the Holo May and a Holo Spring on the shelf, are you going to make a comparing review?
Yup
Thanks for your review! Could you also add sound clips? I am very curious about the sound, including the tweeter.
I would rather employ multiple small woofers and drive them easier to get less distortion. And cross over to a bit larger multiple woofers than asking one small woofer to play down to 40Hz. But I am a real believer in Purifi and Bruno Putzey's class D designs after talking with him about how class D is an analog versus digital amplification process.
Its not about driving them at this point right? Its about phase. Not this kit but a purifi driver and some of their passive radiators would distort less and dispersion would be easier to design for.
The New Salk tower that uses these woofer and a Be tweeter sounded amazing. My guess would be they need some love from Jim and Dennis
I'm just about to build my own bookshelfs with these exact drivers. 😋 Should be fun
@@INeedsMoneys Yes is should be. There a great driver.
I believe the Viawave GRT-145W-4 sealed ribbon tweeter with waveguide to be a good match with the Purifi PPT6 woofer, perhaps they could look at that option for this speaker design ? Just a thought !
What are the frequencies where a woofer needs "meat on the bones"?
Under 80hz? Under 200hz?
It would be expensive, but an MTM, perhaps with a transmission line with these would be interesting.
Ron, check out the Qualio Audio IQ speakers. You would absolutely love them I’m sure (hint: has some open baffle elements). It’s unlikely you’ll be in a position to review them but you never know.
Could it be that the perceived lack of bass with low distortion woofers, is because most recordings are mastered for average quality sound systems that would otherwise sound bloated?...I wonder if there is a case for a low frequency equaliser between the preamp and power amp for such speakers to re-establish a balanced presentation?
I suspect it has to do with the port turning. I do see a resonance and even a potential issue with the tuning but it’s beyond my reach of full understanding it.
the problem with reviewing a woofer is when you use a ported box to do it, its wont let you review anything in range of the port tuning. and port is not the answer for great sound anyways. more subwoofers and get rid of the ports.
Or go with well designed acoustic suspension designs with perhaps 2 woofers of 6-8 inches.
@@johnhpalmer6098 i like how you think
How does it compare to the NX-Studio?
So when are they sending you the spk16?
Maybe your guess is correct. The bass "thump" might often just be resonances, harmonics and other such distortion.
I’m coming from a sound production angle but if you make a sine wave bass you barely feel or hear it below a certain hz until you add some harmonics. There is also another factor. Higher frequencies at the same volume are perceived to be louder. So you need the harmonics on a low note to feel the punch
I think It Works better with passive radiator
Hey Ron, take a look at Arakelyan Acoustics Byurakan that uses this same driver! (full disclosure - my own product :)
I'll check it out!
@@Newrecordday2013 Cool, thanks! I'm not sure if you're reviewing any ultra high-end speakers, but I would love to send you a pair in case you're interested. It's currently in pre-production, but would be great to get your opinion on the sound.
@@LevonArakelian send me an email with the details. Ron@newrecordday.com
WOW!
That's a very nice design, though I think I'll have to settle for a standard box with my budget :)
Good review, but the price of the woofer is ridiculous. The butyl surround looks torn
Speaking of the lack of heft with these woofers, I'm curious what they sound like with recordings where they've added a lot of harmonics to the bass, for example "Everyday" by Ariana Grande.
No. The lack of heft is from the box and overall speaker design.
You should demo a pair of Philharmonic HT towers.
They have the same 6.5” woofers but MLTL and an MTM up top.
Demo them man.
Making a tweeter that matches the Purifi driver? That is a serious issue. I have had to modify an existing tweeter to do just that. I do say that for most DIY'ers they should look to the "W" version of this driver rather than the "X" version - just my opinion.
Ron they are also goog for open baffel
I have used LOTS. OK, the lazy version of it and I think I had my speakers to close. I have just moved them back about roughly 6 inches or so and they sound much better this way. But yeah they are still almost in the center of my living room!
Good work Kevin! Thanks
@@Newrecordday2013 THANK YOU! Speaker placement is vital! Just plopping them up against the wall behind them should be illegal!
its funny make a tweeter as good as the woofer. by many (not me) these are the pinacle of amt tweeters. they are more espencive thenh the woofer itself.. :)
Lack of body , extension or slam?
How much power did you throw at these woofers?
I have noticed that high quality crossovers can make speakers more power hungry.... Some class AB 300wpc could wake these woofers up .
AMT tweeters can disappear, Mundorf makes awesome stuff, how long did these tweeters and speakers play before your evaluation and conclusions?
These woofers look like they are damaged lol. Great review, cheers!
It's done through complex modelling which is why it looks so different around the surround edges
xD
I had to stop watching. Those woofers look hideous. Yes. The foam surrounds looked all torn apart.
I thought the same thing lol.
Had to stop watching because of the way they look? What if they sound better because of the way they look?
Mundorf AMT CM21 is a good tweeter but it is a poor choice for such heavy midwoofers.
I would use a big dome tweeter.
With such drivers you will always hear the different sounding notes from the tweeter and woofer. Especially well heard for the piano. You can avoid this with lower order crossovers but a small AMT limits the use of such crossovers.
3 kHz crossover frequency is high for the woofers and low for Mundorf.
And Mundorf does not have a "sag" in response - it is a bad tweeter placement.
My suspicion is that the Purifi is not a good match to that particular tweeter. i suspect an RS150P crossed at 5k would work much better.
How about if we get to hear the speakers???????
Completely mirrors the results of the ASR testing.
I’m not talking about it. Oh, wait - you got me! You scamp!
They may go really loud but model those midbass drivers on speaker box lite, they drop off a cliff below 40hz. Btw beyma tpl75 amt kills that mundorf
No issue with the AMT tweeters "standing out" on the Emotiva speakers I have. The speakers just vanish and everything is there.
You know what’s interesting, I noticed the same thing when I reviewed Emotiva. That tweeter didn’t call attention to itself as much.
I don't care how good they sound, I couldn't live with a woofer that looks like that.
I actually think it looks pretty cool
Thanks Ron !
You are welcome!
Ron, how does this speaker, using the purify spk-5 woofer, compare to something like Danny' Richie's encore xls?
This is WAY better, these are state of the art drivers where the encore xls aren’t even close...
They could offer two models: ONE for young People like Ron, and one for old farts, that have lost a few k in the upper range... So, someone that hears 19k, may consider a tweeter sounds harsh, where one that is limited by 15k says "what do you want, this tweeter sounds sweet! Less would not be good ;-)
Solid review m8. Lines up well with the ongoing saga over at asr with these speakers. Scary expensive drivers though 😲
Haha, I’ll have to check out their review. Thanks for watching!
Use it in a 3-way
Sorry, that surround does not look nice, lmao. Sorry.
Ofc is all compromise, if it makes good midrange it''s physically imbossible make perfect bass response / subs are for that. Also AMT's not make best with 2-way design imho 🤠
I want a put over the table something that can lead us to know about the accuracy or any audio reviewer opinion.
EVery opinion is subjective for every reviewer but i think, how do we know that the reviewer has a qualify ears to give us her opinion if he can hear only up to 12khz or 13khz or less, it means if my assumption is true "he can perceive any gear like speakers as laid back or without highs because he is not be able to listen that frequencies , another reviewer with better ears or he can listen up to 18khz or 19khz is going to have a more accurate review. I think every proffesional reviewer has to show his audiometry in order to show that he has accurate hearing to make a review.
Ear's reviewers are the tools for them to evaluate a gear and an audiometry is the way to test them.
Give me your opinions
I bought these drivers for car, only 1 driver in a car door and whole car shakes when I listen to music!
If you want good Class D , it doesn't come cheap.
bass is distortion, bass will muddie vocal ranges and more generally if your goal is sound quality your not going to to be playing anything bellow 80 hz from your front stage due to it's affect on vocal imaging, 80hz and below should be handled by a subwoofer, weather you like to hear this or not, "full range" is never going to be 100% feasible in a 2 way system without adding some kind of color or distortion to the sound
it a good driver but very expensive.
Class D isn’t good. Sure a $4K Class D will beat some Class AB amps. But against reputable $4K Class AB, A, H… amps, it’s just ok. I live in Minneapolis, home of Audio Research, Bel Canto, Magnepan, Van Alstine, etc. I’ve had two opportunities to listen to Bel Canto Class D amps… supposedly one of the best. And I wish I can say Bel Canto’s sound great since I’m loyal to my local community businesses.
why you don't play these, excruciating
Woofer looks like at ScanSpeak. Is it?
No. Not even close.
@@editorjuno Who did ?
@@jeffkalina7727 it's a Purifi woofer as mentioned
So Ron, review on something that you can't buy? Why
I have done DIY on my channel a few times, this isn’t much different
Not cool to take a dig at AMT tweeters. While the AMTs might or might not sound right in the SPK5, it's silly to dismiss them as a useful speaker enhancement. There's good reason why more and more speaker designs are using AMT tweeters - it's because they sound great, very clean and fast, when properly implemented.
I'm not sure what a tweeter "calling attention to itself" means, but maybe your ears need to adjust to reality after many years of hearing what are now bad tweeters compared with AMTs. Legacy Audio is putting AMTs into some very high end speakers such as their Whisper XDS and Aeris. DIYers are even adding external ESS "Great Heil" AMTs to existing speakers, with a claimed remarkable improvement. AMT has come of age, and speaker designers as well as speaker buyers should audition them rather than dismissing them outright.
Seems like you came to a bigger conclusion than I did in my video. Let’s be clear so we can have a meaningful conversation: I have heard some good sounding AMTs and some that don’t call attention to themselves. Unfortunately, this particular AMT was not one of them. Thanks for the comment.
@@Newrecordday2013 Thanks for the reply. I was reading more into your AMT comment than you intended.
Totem tribe Tower
Class D sounds great until you hear Class A.
Pronounces Poozzi
Something going on with your sound
That’s helpful.
Why does it look like a dog gnawed on one of the woofers?
The funniest jab at these surrounds I've heard was that they look like someone took the heat gun and melted them. Dog gnawed surrounds may be the new gold standard. If I understand correctly, they virtually eliminate all diffraction. Erin's Audio Corner ran all the fancy testing on them and they basically had no distortion and or diffraction. From a purely technical standpoint they are the best speakers he's ever measured, IIRC.
It helps reduce issues by cone surround interface and the output from the surround interfering with the sound from the cone itself. Even Scanspeak has the cone surround interface causing a problem with their regular half roll.
Sorry, but after listening to the woofer's price, I lost total interest about the rest.
What's wrong with it? Highly capable drivers cost a little bit .
@@RennieAsh A little bit???
Yeah no
I don't want to hear talk. I want to hear the woofer.
Can’t win then all Amigo. Thanks for the comment!
You sure can't, but you'll win more with a half decent sound demo rather than all that gasbagging.
You're welcome.
You must be new to my channel. Enjoy the stay. You might dig the sound clips I typically provide.
@@Newrecordday2013 A sound demo is far more useful. I skip through unless there's a sound demo.
Sounds good, thanks for watching anyway
Those are hideous, they look ruined...leave the cover on. lol
The constant edits become distracting
Cheers Bob!
Ugliest woofer I’ve ever seen. I wouldn’t own them if they were the best woofer on the planet!
That's what people said when airpods were out first. Once u will hear then u will ignore the look of the surround
Really? You buy your speakers based on how purty the woofers are?