He's not really trashing it. He has a valid point. Best managers are those who have worked in their field for a while, learned as much as possible about its ins and out, then pursued an MBA for a leadership position in their domain. That way, you get expert leaders, not bloated egos that know nothing about the technical side of their products but harass employees who need guidance rather than being chastised.
Knowing the ins and outs of a company and being able to manage it properly are two different things, that's why you see so many companies prosper after the original founders were sacked, ironically enough this is EXACTLY what happened at Tesla since Elon took over and pretty much got rid of the founders and look where it is now.
You can get a way above average job by being a good presenter, idk how that’s rylly a burn. You definitely give off the “If your not a multimillionaire entrepreneur then what are u doing with your life” type energy
true, hes kinda too extreme. Getting MBA should not be the goal but instead, it just helps people to make connections in the business world and to get more opportunities, and the knowledge learned there might not make you an elite business man instantly but sure helps in some sort of way
It way be worth spending time in some of the other responses in the comment section and cross checking that with job postings on tesla/spacex. Not everything requires a degree, especially the more business oriented positions.
I’m getting my MBA right now, after nearly 10 years experience in my field. The MBA teaches some useful knowledge, but that’s not why you get it. It’s purely to check a box to help move up the management ladder. My experience is far more valuable to employers than the MBA will be - the MBA is just an enhancement or a nice-to-have.
This is how I've felt every day for such a long time. PMP/PMO's are now another wave of this problem; a bunch of people who've taken certification courses in "project management" and come into organizations, technology in my experience, and are given Project Manager titles without knowing anything about what's actually involved in managing the projects. They just schedule meetings (include upper mgr's), and ask the engineers other team members what needs to be done. Next meeting: ask them if those tasks were done and ask what needs to be done next, and repeat that routine at the following meeting. That's not management. It's a secretary taking minutes and parroting back the engineers and other team members that actually know how to run the projects. Then they present the progress of the projects in meetings to senior management, taking credit for managing projects by virtue of their misleading titles and their access to senior management (who really hire them so that they can hand down distasteful demands through an intermediary and not have to face the professionals who actually do the heavy lifting of coordinating and delivering technically complex projects through their own collaboration).
I used to think the same, but you've missed a key component. Project Managers/Product Owners and Program Managers are also points of risk ownership. They own a delegated amount or designated level of risk of that project. So yes, they are hands off and are good at using Teams/Skype/WebEx for meeting booking. They also hold higher levels of delegation and weight within a strategic leadership chain. Its extremely beneficial to have someone like that onside, if you yourself don't have enterprise influence or presence within the chain of command. I will say, I have worked for/met both shit and good managers between military and corporate life. There is bigger incentives to nourishing your team with praise, noting the quality of work if you bear the burden/hold the delegation + stress for them. I'm not a PM, but I am a tasking lead and have been so on and off for a decade, so I have a myriad of experience as an individual contributor/team member and then a senior SME/Lead. There is a common denomination of quiet workers who don't posture themselves properly when conducting work and also allow poor leadership to occur. You don't have to be a position of authority, to be a good leader.
I'd also add, there are areas of delegation that are specified to those members within the strategic leadership chain. Being a risk owner is one, being a representative of enterprise is another given, being cognisant of contract/deliverables is another. Expectation Management (internal and external), Customer Management (or accounts, pending how your organisation structure is). The PMs I work with do not have it easier and unfortunately, despite what people think, your workload does not get easier as you progress. It becomes complicated and there are often more expectations of you (behavioural, enterprise knowledge, problem solving, addition meetings). Due to the complexity of the work, you need SMEs that are on tools and specialised at that problem solving, to give you that quality checked input. Then the PM owns the risk of it. People often say Managers don't do shit, but I still feel even as a lead, that I lose 18hours a week to meetings plus OT I do as a requirement of role, where as my troops are clocked out to meet our fatigue calculators requirements. Not a single one does more than 40 hours a week (as per their agreement, to get extra time off each month). But for me, I juggle execution roles + senior SME input and its extremely derailing doing both. Having people within the chain of command that can soak and babysit some ADHOC taskings/deliverables is extremely handy and it also helps prompt other departments input (especially when you're not getting their support). So there are perks and benefits to those roles in a chain of command and its up to every person individually to make a work environment where open conversations can happen, limiting shitbag behaviour that would be deemed stealing glory/thunder.
You need to be a junior business analyst or project manager and pay your due. No body should parachute into anything. Leadership is empathy and you only get empathy thru work experience. Understand what the low level employees go thru before you become a Director or Manager.
and lots of companies allow this to happen, the onboarded directors/managers do well #s wise for several quarters or years, then the company typically flops because the method isnt sustainable.
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 We also as a society have to rethink how make valuations. Economics and moreover administration need to be examined if we are truly going to in the direction of sustainable capitalism. Technocracy in the 30's is one of things that I'm surprised hasn't gained more steam politically as stem and digital capitalism begin to dominate the global north and other industrialized economies.
@@timmanto1022 Totally on the same page. From where I'm sitting, most people would rather remain blind and just continue to enjoy their bread and circuses unfortunately
If someone does an MBA directly after their Bachelors degree, it really is pointless. Get a few years experience and then do an Executive MBA. It is infinitely more valuable.
Seems to be the case with a lot of graduate schemes I've seen floating around online for various companies. Saw a supermarket posting about how a uni graduate had joined them through their graduate program and gone straight in as regional manager, they could only have been like 23 at the most so it seems strange that you'd bring someone new into your company and immediately give them that much responsibility.
I have a friend using her MBA degree as a way to ruin her ex husband in divorce court. I know someone else with an MBA whose running a start up that's losing money every month. I have a boss with an MBA degree that doesn't understand marketing and I considered getting an MBA myself but then I started making more with my own business just outsourcing work to web services, niche professionals and eager gen z workers who clear my plate so I can work on something else. Teamwork makes the dream work, not a piece of paper that proves you wrote a lot of essays
I went through a professional MBA Program where I had to have a minimum of 5 years of professional experience to gain entry. The program enhanced my leadership, ethics, communication and anylitical skills. I think Elon is correct on those who go straight through higher education and never held a "real job". California State Polytechnic University Pomona PMBA is a great program.
think twice before you pursue an MBA in this day and age. too many people have them now so the value is kinda low. one of my cousins had to send out nearly 300 applications before landing a job after getting an MBA.
MBA's are still teaching 1850's socio economic thinking. This is its major drawback. People come out thinking those ideas and ideals are set in stone for eternity, when in reality that thinking has 10 - 15 years left in it tops before it is completely irrelevant.
When I got my MBA, I thought the best thing I could do was to hire into a company at the lowest level possible and start learning about the company that way. No employer would allow that.
There's a study that proves mbas drive out the high performance workers, over a few years everyone's pay will go down and the mbas pay will increase. There will be more bad workers , underpaid workers, and less workers in general, all of this will lead to liabilities and huge lawsuits that will financially cripple the business.
Its a mixed bag. Corporations are extremely bureaucratic and political in nature, not these perfect meritocratic entities. Often times people who "grow into" leadership positions do so not because they "earned it" as Elon implies, but simply because they are liked on a personal level by the right people in senior positions and/or have simply been around for a while. Experience and education are both meant to be signposts to illustrate an individuals competency, but neither is certainly perfect. Will agree that experience is generally more useful, but it is not a binary subject by any stretch.
There should be a time/experience requirement to enter into an MBA Program. People who go from Undergrad > Grad school and then into the workplace should always start out as the Janitor!
Executives are some of the most helpless people in the office environment. Most are overpaid and have no technical skills in the age of technology. A lot of them are high stressed and have mental health issues. They are completely disconnected from the middle class and are socially awkward at best.
Took a job sweeping floors and ended up turning a 1 million a year retailer to 50 mill in 3 years. Didnt have my high school lol. Failed functions o. Purpose.
An MBA is about management and the structure of business in general. Has little to do with leadership. Leadership is a personal quality that a manager may or may not have. It’s best to have both in the C-Suite. An athlete may be a great leader and suck at tying marketing to profitability, while an MBA may be great at “PowerPoint presentations” but not have great charisma.
Experience is the education. Ppl need to stop calling the peice of paper "education" it's just a paper to separate yourself from all the other Experienced ppl.
As an engineer with an MBA, I totally agree. There is no substitute for real-world experience. However, MBA's were designed to supplement knowledge not replace it. It helps people that don't have the opportunity to gain business knowledge from their work environment.
basicaly, the MBA is for people to get promoted... not for a first job. so an engineer can become an engineering manager. not so a green horn can become a super-intendant.
I did the same route. Engineering for project managers. Even had to read case studies about this exact scenario Musk is talking about. Where greenhorn engineers with MBA’s parachute in and many of the blue collar employees view their new manager as not so much inept but view their manager as “having not earned their spot”. Best way to ease this tension is for both parties to recognize they are in the same team, to understand that both are going to work hard, and that just because scholastic work is more mental than physical that there is a lot of hard work involved to get those degrees. Unfortunately, Musk is very correct that those degrees have become devalued recently. The younger generation is told to “go to school” to procure a better future. But when they finally get out of school there are no jobs or companies refuse to hire them due to “lack of experience”. Really is a catch 22.
He’s not trashing the MBA. He’s trashing the mindset that some people may have behind what an MBA would do for them. Basically calling out those who think an MBA is their catalyst into leadership. There are a lot of pathways for advancement. I wish hard work and being good at your job was all that mattered, but unfortunately it is not. Otherwise the demographics of executive leadership would look very different in the U.S.
You need to understand something in life. When people give a reason, you need to understand the REAL reason. Yes he is trashing the MBA, but he's being nice about it. 99% of people arent gonna be leaders because it requires one to be a polymath, know a lot about a lot of things, sacrifice, valor, honor, high painthreshold, etc. Many combinations at a high level that most people wont have
This was my biggest frustration working as a COO and board members on a publicly traded company. There are people that have a certification for everything you can imagine, yet understand none of it.
That's why so many corporations want individuals with plenty of workforce experience because there, you are exposed in an environment that tests the thinking capacity and understand of the job description... Most fresh-out-of-college graduates barely understand much because they've been rushed through the system and bombarded with material that takes a lot of time to really digest and utilize in a practical situation later in life... They just memorize as much as they can for that exams and that's it... Forget all that the next day and you have a 'graduate'... To most individuals, that experience is a commodity they can never attain without being given the chance to try and fail first... This has to come at the expense of the corporation aiming for profits and those risks, they'll never take... So we end up stuck in a failing system that's only benefiting a minority and failing a majority...
I hear you, its a weird divide that should not exist. Its counterproductive to success. As the data and analytics muscle that understands all facets, I have turned very cautious on who and how much I help. Too many years of getting burned by the glory hunting pretenders. It sucks, because my caution does not get the company the best help which makes me even more mad. At the same time, how many times does a person have to allow the exploitation? 🤷♂️
I noticed this as well burned me bad last time i was on the hiring team for a new engineer guy had a masters in engineering management. And a bunch of certs i didnt look close enough at the work history due to being impressed by the schooling compared to my just a bachelors. 3 months into hiring the guy he constantly made junior engineer mistakes and quit in about 10 months
I make a point of never hiring people with too many qualifications. Those types are almost always useless at doing actual work. Work history beats certs every time.
I totally agree with Elon, I got my MBA from Penn and most of my classmates didn´t give a damn about the courses, they just wanted to get the degree to go boss around
I hear you. I did my MBA at one of FT Top 50 schools, and I can confidently say that I only learned something from 10% of the class. Everyone else was just in there for the degree, and they had nothing valuable to share.
Its refreshing to hear this, especially as an engineer. It feels like almost all companies went down this route of only MBAs are allowed in management and the engineering can be outsourced or swapped out. I've gotten sick of leaders that dont even know how to use the products they supposedly lead.
My last company was like this. The guy in charge of the engineers was NOT an engineer and you could see all the problems were rooted in him not being competent to lead them because he doesn’t know what they do or how they do it.
I never understood why corporations would hire a manager with no experience in the company, overlooking a hardworking employee who has been there for years
Because internal hiring still leaves you with a position to hire: the person who you just promoted. And usually, the lower employee is usually the one doing the work, so they're technically more difficult to replace.
@@acrxsls1766 that do not make sense because they are still looking for someone to hire for the manager position anyway. Either way they're looking for someone to hire.
Leadership is the only attribute that still till this day has no degree that properly represents it’s qualities. He has a very valid point and if you think he is trash talking you don’t understand what it takes to be a leader. Schools can’t really teach you how to be good at this, at best they can only give you examples. Life is best at teaching this!
It’s funny he says this but yet they don’t hire people that don’t have degrees pay attention to that, “you don’t need a degree” then they only hire the best with degrees
You have wrong info.there r plenty of freelance engineers and people who work in his companies without degrees but ofc you have to be exceptional for that.
he is talking about MBAs not standard University Degree .. and I do agree most people do an MBA primarly because they think it will give them more networking and visibility so they can get a better job .. they don't do it because they can learn something more.
Yeah in the "corporate world" it's all about presentation. Who cares whether you have the knowledge and technical edge, you just need to look like you know what you're doing. The thing about working a job is that it's not really about hard work, it's about taking the minimal effort to upward movement.
Exactly. This is capitalism. This is playing the game. Trying to only work your way up is risky because you can get laid off or hurt etc then you look so much worse on paper for the next job 100%.. Not everybody has the same path.
Yea Ima go with what's been stated, Elon isn't trashing MBAs, he's simply stating that MBA grads have this misconception that they'll be automatically great leaders once they join the workforce because of their completed education. But that's the thing, and education teaches you the fundamentals and sets a great foundation from where you can build on, and eventually establish yourself as a great leader but youre still starting at the bottom if you dont have the work experience
Actually there's a great barrier where the best MBA products are lousily treated and it takes years and years if working hard before you are given the opportunity but that time the desire and fire is gone in many case. And worse the knowledge also evaporates to an extent and bad habits set in.
A guy who grew up rich and never got past a bachelor’s degree in science who later tanked a social media powerhouse doesn’t give me much confidence on his opinion about master’s degrees or just business in general
Entirely different. Working in Tesla corp, yes a degree in engineering - mechanical, aerospace, software engineering, even degrees in mathematics or physics would be desired. An MBA is entirely different, it's practically useless and a waste of money.
A lot of people at Tesla corp hold a degree, yes, but they're not there because they hold a degree as much as it is a byproduct of it and something useful. Because even Elon Musk said you don't need a college degree to work at Tesla.
thats true because academics teach you whats written in a book but if you want to run or start a business it's very practical, there are no books about this. There is no step by step guide how to start a successful company, it depends on million things and a lot of it you just have to figure out as you go, it's not possible prepare yourself for it in the school
for their technical roles - and that's only for applicants looking at stem related positions. Looking at project managers, business roles, etc Tesla and SpaceX both value actual OTJ experience. Edit: changed Look to Looking to better match verb tense.
@@assasination1100 Go review the job postings for SpaceX and Tesla - I'd link you out here but unfortunately youtube doesnt allow external links in comments. The types of jobs I referred to do not require collegiate level education. Of course it's going to be recommended, but these jobs typically require 5+ years relevant PM experience and a business certification from an accredited organization. To answer your question no, I'm not willing to relocate from my current location just to work for a Musk founded company. I'm already sitting pretty with an engineering gig where I'm currently at. Cheers!
After working for 23 years, getting my MBA was the best and most rewarding decisions of my life. He’s right, an MBA for someone with zero work experience is useless. Its like sending someone to cooking school who has never eaten then hiring them as a head chef 🤷♀️ What misguided hiring manager would ever put a student with zero experience into a leadership position is the real question.
No it's not and he is not right. You people are so weird. Why do you think people with a MBA won't learn anything in their employment and can grow from where they start? Like wtf is this fallacious way of thinking.
@@JackRR15 .....sounds like you are one of those "experts" who knows everything right from the start. I have worked with people like you before. Always full of answers .....but unable to think. .
@@JackRR15work experience here says he is right🤷♂️ Had some talks about about as to "whyTF" and the reasoning was that the people in position know their work and if they were to promote them they might lose actual manpower.
Translation: "I wish nobody had an MBA. That way i'd be able to charge minimum pay for maximum work. MBA people know what they are doing and won't fall for my "You have to work harder for less money" scams."
Its really interesting to me that this is becoming a common attitude towards education in quite a few fields. With the wealth of information available at relatively low costs, people who have a natural predisposition for a trade or field, can work their way from the lowest rungs to the highest. Bosses who understand the work that is done at the lowest levels have a much better understanding of their capabilities and limitations.
This used to be the standard way of doing things. Back then businesses lasted alot longer and provided alot more value. Nowadays MBAs are all about their bonuses and cut, cut, cut. They dont know anything else besides slash and burn. MBAs are a stain on modern civilisation period! Know the cost of everything and the value of nothing...
Agreed, but what do you say to people like me who have spent the equivalent of the price of a home (not to mention all the years of depriving yourself of a social life) on their education because we were all told that this was the best way to get a good career - "tough luck"??
@@annieholbis2430 The only consolation I believe I can offer is a bit of empathy. I joined the service after high school. Most of my friends, at 17-19 years of age, bravely took on loans that will haunt their existence for the next decade or two. I got out after 3 years with a guaranteed education free of charge and good work experience. The library and clep exams have become my dearest of friends. There is a flaw in the boot strap theory, because the decision making process of most people is heavily affected by forces which exist beyond the realm of their consciosness. My heart really does go out to anyone who was never exposed to the alternative. Nevertheless, we as a society (US) have the almost pathological need to associate a degree (which essentially anyone can get, if they pay) with authority, competence, and prestige. We need to embrace our blue collar folk as the indispensable assets to society that they are, rather than as the “uneducated”.
I have an MBA and I need to be hands on to test theories we set forth. But, Elon isn’t bashing it, he’s just saying, living it is better than just saying it. Which I agree.
You're not an MBA, maybe you've completed an MBA. That's the reason Elon said, you don't tell anyone about it, especially if you think you are an MBA. Heheheheh!!
I am currently doing an MBA. I agree with him, but I honestly don't know anyone in my class that plans to just slot into a leadership position without having the experience. The MBA just gives you the leg up over ppl with the same experience. If I had to pick between someone with 15 years experience and someone with an MBA and only 3 years experience I will take the person with more experience. But between 2 people who both have 15 years experience but one has the MBA, then its a no brainer.
Basically degree provides evidence of one's abilities (atleast theoretically). Otherwise how else would you convince someone that you are good at something without them knowing you?
When MBA's were "invented" it was a ticket to higher management from middle management. A prerequisite was 6 years working in a management position. As Universities saw this as an opportunity to rake in more dough, the business school's departments of Economics changed the requirements having a degree in Business, and then to anyone with a degree and now to anyone with the money. An MBA currently is just more debt.
Well said. It's the same with most over- advertised degrees and diplomas and certifications. They're hyped because they're hollow and make the school a lot of money.
@@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470 And hiring people is contracted out to recruiting companies who only look at paper qualifications. I got rejected for technical jobs because years of experience and applicable tech certifications didn't meet the "university graduate" criteria.
He took one minute, stuttering and stammering, to say that experience is more important than a degree. He could use a course in public speaking. Hahaha
There are two types of people. People who read and have a lot of bookish knowledge. People who work in the real world and have a lot of real world experience. And guess what, no matter how many books you read, how many theories, philosophies, and ideas you read, none of those can compare to the experience you gain from actually working in the real space. Sure, for STEM fields, you need to study, get a degree, and then get a job. But after getting a job, its all the real world experience that helps you become a better at your job. But, in other fields, you don't really need to read hundreds of books to know what to do, just get your ass up, start working, and learn as you go. Most self made millionaires and billionaires were not Ph.D Graduates, they read enough to get started, and once they started, they kept grinding and improving.
I took my state's MBA program because 1) it's cheaper, 2) I'm close to home, 3) I needed some business knowledge since biology was my major from undergrad.
People might not like my POV but the way I see a MBA is taking the easy path and buying your way to a higher management role bc of 3 reasons. 1) Most things under “business” can self tought 2) As a Comp sci major most comp sci majors or engineering majors that can’t keep up most of the time switch to business because it easy 3) If you wanted a degree that pays extremely well, law or the medical field is only a additional 2 years of school
Actually you are wrong about law. The perception that law is the highest paid degree is an outdated perception from people who are oblivious to the economic projections of the future, and blindly relying upon past reputation. According to expert economic predictions, computer science and finance will have higher median and 90th percentile incomes over law due to the advancements in AI and technology. Even some sectors in engineering will exceed law like biotechnology and renewable energy. You have to keep up with the times.
I wonder if he thinks billionaires shouldn’t automatically become CEOs of companies they buy and have no experience in…they just parachute in and buy and start making random changes. Wtf is X?
@@4biFarm the apartment they rented was actual a store-front/business office they rented and slept in (for a 1/2 year or so) from what I've read. Definitely not the standard path and considering he went to Wharton and is now the richest man in the world i'd take his practical advice over a random university advocate personally :)
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 his dad owned a emerald mine he also invested 29k in his first business so I'm pretty sure Elon musk was well offf even before he sold zip 2
@@RandomVideos-kn3pf oh no doubt: he definitely had a better group of investors than most people did at his age - not to mention the support system therein. I dont think that should detract from the accomplishments he's been able to achieve in his 50 years of life though... granted it's mostly through building of teams and being the first to act on some big ideas, still no small feat
And then tesla gives priorities to people with MBA from big university. It is his opinion, But parterns, employees and Board member still ptefer High qualified people ( at least on paper)
From my experience, business can be learned fairly easily... I think studying a sector of STEM that inspires you is much more valuable in innovation and product creation. Elon Musk is a clear example of that.
Elon's points are all extremely well taken, however I will also say that personally going back for an MBA (the education, not the degree) was one of the best decisions I ever made. It was the only way I would have been able to stop working long enough to finish my education. Having the education (not the degree) continually enables me to keep my company out of trouble, mostly by being able to stop bad decisions and make persuasive arguments framed in terms of a P&L.
He's right. But there is also a reason why people pay so much fuckin money to go to these MBA programs. The job/ networking opportunities u get from the name on the diploma is what ur paying for, not the education
Goes for almost everything. All knowledge is available online but it takes time to be certified & you get privileges. Musk himself was doing PhD in Physics. I very much doubt he would have been so successful if he didn't utilise his contacts he made there to venture into business afterwards. He's not your average fellow if he was doing PhD in a STEM field.
@@gabbar51ngh Actually getting a PhD in STEM is different from starting it and dropping out of it. Anyone with a good enough bachelor's in physics can do a PhD and I don't think you need to be that smart to get a good enough bachelor's in physics. As long you're not completely dumb it should be fine. Completing a PhD is a different thing altogether. Not saying Elon Musk is not smart. Just saying that starting a PhD is not a big deal.
@@achyuththouta6957 you are assuming getting a bachelor's in physics is that easy & anyone can do it. That's not really the case based of how many fail to do STEM in general.
As much as I've experienced applying for MBAs, MBAs in USA do seem to care about leadership skills to an extent and mandate work experience (3+ yrs) to be considered eligible for the MBA programs. But when I come to Indian B-schools, the condition is deplorable. 9/10 B-schools in India, even the premier ones, have no minimum work ex requirement due to which majority of the class joins MBA straight out of undergrad. They do not make good managers, and def not good leaders atleast from what I've experienced after working under such people
So much true. Indian MBA have no clue how to solve a problem. Most of the times they play blame game. They don't know how to bring in profits without cutting employees off. There best friend is tell 1 guy to do 20 guy work and save money for company. They are worst in problem solving but like to show off alot.
I'm a chemical engineer who has worked up into an area manger position within a chemical plant. I'm going to MBA school because I want to learn the business side of things and eventually want to be a leader within my company. I think that is the right way to go
MBA Course is like £18,000 and that's the Online version in the UK with the Open University, so basically it's designed for rich people who want a ticket to being "the boss" and Elon Musk is absolutely right, ive worked in places where their arrogance supersedes the functionality of the business, they get so drunk on power, like everyday is the weekend. It can be toxic, but I bet there's also those who parachute in as the boss and make an effort to learn the business and care about it - those people are the exception though
In Germany, it can cost like 300 eur/mo in an international school online, but guys what about Msc in Business Administration? In some countries like Belgium and Italy, they can cost super cheap and u can go to top EU schools for (4k euros per year or less)
I haven't went to business school or have a master's in business but I'm working pretty well as Marketing Manager (after spending 6 years as marketer). So what Elon is saying is 100% true. You need to have ground level experience before working as a manager or director
100% agree. I earned a design degree and about 18 years later I earned an MBA at night for the ability to have more meaningful discourse with those that earned an mba in the director executive ranks. What I came to realize was, more than not, the upper ranks were filled with posers and scared they would be found out. It many ways having an mba threatened many directors and executives that were accustomed to dismissing my art skills as incidental. Now I arrive with decades of professional design experience and some certified business acumen (mba) ... and it impedes my ability to collaborate with the executives I was seeking to reach out to.
you may or may not do well to relocate to a different market, including that known as the internet. i have no idea what/how you do, but you might be the fish trying to grow in the wrong pond(s). similarly, read 48 Laws of Power and anything else by Robert Greene. you-yourself say it: you are dealing with threatened-feeling people. whether within your company or immediate market, you have to play the game to your best advantage at least until you get into something else, somewhere else. And people skills, for those who are threatened, or for those who have the myriad other foibles/problems of humanity, said people skills will never go out of style or out of need. the above said, if they don't want to work with you, go find those who view your experiences/talents as a plus, not a threat. similarly, for sake of a controlled experiment, you may want to leave mba off any resume you send out, then wait until right time in interviewing process (or not) to share of that particular credential. don't stay stuck. don't be afraid to try anything crazy. you're in the art field, there's shitloads of ways and places you can bring your full skillset/talents to bear so long as you don't get picky. you might have other problems, but you won't be stuck anymore, and first progress brings further progress if you keep on it. as Mursal Noor says "you can't stop here, go do your thing"
Yes, I moved from being a pure historian into economics and business and found that history skills are really valuable. Like when the poo hits the fan they always ask "What happened?"
Get that diploma or any piece of paper plus work experience, and you'll always standout above the rest. Also, stop believing Bill Gates or Elon Musk are self-made, when their parents wealth or connections had a lot to do with their success.
I agree and have an MBA. Too many of my peers had a 'parachuting in' and short cuts mentality and stagnated later. It's a great course for condensing 10 or 15 years of business experience, but it's only a starting point to going deeper. If you really build knowledge on top of an MBA, then business becomes a playground.
work your way up?? many companies don't offer higher salaries to analysts. MBA boosts salaries. Atleast here, we can go for an MBA without any workex. It's upto us.
I worked my way up from a videographer to Director of Marketing in 5 years. No formal education, just a strong desire to learn and work my ass off. I can tell you from experience that when I got to that level & we hired on more directors with MBA’s , they struggled to lead people, come up with good ideas, and ultimately not respected by the team. Most of them took a different job for more pay cause they couldn’t get promoted or got fired. They sucked lol. Not saying this is always the case but definitely true in my situation.
He's not trash talking MBAs, so low of you, had to cut the exact part he was explaining how they are valuable in a different sense. All comment haters have no MBA and couldn't get into HBS! Lol we understand guys
Just wondering how many times he's going to repeat himself about MBA's parachuting in and working your way up. Did he say anything more substantive than that over the course of the full minute here?
Funny how we very often used to focus our attention on Elon during my MBA, because of his unique leadership skills and entrepreneurial abilities. I somehow believed at the time, he wanted to convince people about the unique experience of driving a Tesla. That's what resonated with me mostly at the time. It seemed he was committed in creating a unique experience. An experience you wouldn't have with any other car.
@@User-rz7de well it depends. An MBA allows you to get closer to the value of doing business, and understand different perspectives. You focus on the value of creating and generating profit. So an MBA encapsulates a set of skills development like leadership, which can help you become a better parent maybe and teach you how to be a team, understand where your value can be more concerned. This is not a perfect world and given constraints and priorities, an MBA is definitely not a guarantee, like any other degree. I am also a geologist and women are often not concidered for the job. Some people use the MBA make more money. Different people have different priorities.
Often the problems with MBAs is that they view a companies product as it's stock and their #1 incentive is to maximize their/bonus compensation before they're gone.
Says the man who was born rich, with blood diamonds. For the rest of us, who have to carve their way up the ladder, an mba might be a good choice. But street smarts and emotional intelligence are far more important.
Elon had privileged upbringing.. But In Canada. He worked crappy jobs..and he took alot of risk.its annoying people keep saying it's because his dad is rich that's how Elon became Elon.
From my experience in the corporate world, rarely does the best and most intelligent person truly advance in their careers. In fact I never saw that one time. Rather it's a political game, sometimes the person is friends with the hiring manager or has bedazzled them in other ways besides accmplishments in the workplace.
Elon says many things and talks a lot, he will tell you about how you don't need a stem degree to be an engineer (because he couldnt get one), he talks about how degrees are meaningless, he talks about MBA being a waste of money. But the reality in his companies are the absolute opposite: positions are filled with people that graduated from MIT, Stanford, Berkeley and Ivy League schools, managers high in the hierarchy all have MBAs, it is virtually impossible for someone that may have very good technical skills but zero credentials to ever be hired, and even less likely to be promoted, in any of his enterprises, period.
Elon laughing at Boeing 😂: ua-cam.com/video/n_tN1R1qKUs/v-deo.htmlsi=DLlXUNbOow7jSQ7W
Elon about Christianity: ua-cam.com/video/X16_OGNlNrE/v-deo.htmlsi=rLbtB2vw9GlkuatN
Elon about Christianity: ua-cam.com/video/X16_OGNlNrE/v-deo.htmlsi=rLbtB2vw9GlkuatN
He's not really trashing it. He has a valid point. Best managers are those who have worked in their field for a while, learned as much as possible about its ins and out, then pursued an MBA for a leadership position in their domain. That way, you get expert leaders, not bloated egos that know nothing about the technical side of their products but harass employees who need guidance rather than being chastised.
Exactly
Jokes on him I've gotten all of my jobs from the networking I did in college.
@@ANTIStraussian exactly,
he did say "I don't wanna trash mba too much"..bros :))))
Knowing the ins and outs of a company and being able to manage it properly are two different things, that's why you see so many companies prosper after the original founders were sacked, ironically enough this is EXACTLY what happened at Tesla since Elon took over and pretty much got rid of the founders and look where it is now.
“They could be good at PowerPoint presentations” worst burn ever 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
he just destroyed them xD
🤣
*incinerated*
Hey, the higher up the food chain you go, the more your job just becomes power point.
You can get a way above average job by being a good presenter, idk how that’s rylly a burn. You definitely give off the “If your not a multimillionaire entrepreneur then what are u doing with your life” type energy
Look at their actions and not words. If their job requirements still requires a degree then all what he said is utterly useless.
true, hes kinda too extreme. Getting MBA should not be the goal but instead, it just helps people to make connections in the business world and to get more opportunities, and the knowledge learned there might not make you an elite business man instantly but sure helps in some sort of way
It way be worth spending time in some of the other responses in the comment section and cross checking that with job postings on tesla/spacex. Not everything requires a degree, especially the more business oriented positions.
A lot of people are saying it’s not true that
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 yea, you dont need a degree to be a janitor at space x or tesla.
@@kaleup6164 So you pay all that money to make connections?
I’m getting my MBA right now, after nearly 10 years experience in my field. The MBA teaches some useful knowledge, but that’s not why you get it. It’s purely to check a box to help move up the management ladder. My experience is far more valuable to employers than the MBA will be - the MBA is just an enhancement or a nice-to-have.
This is how I've felt every day for such a long time. PMP/PMO's are now another wave of this problem; a bunch of people who've taken certification courses in "project management" and come into organizations, technology in my experience, and are given Project Manager titles without knowing anything about what's actually involved in managing the projects. They just schedule meetings (include upper mgr's), and ask the engineers other team members what needs to be done. Next meeting: ask them if those tasks were done and ask what needs to be done next, and repeat that routine at the following meeting. That's not management. It's a secretary taking minutes and parroting back the engineers and other team members that actually know how to run the projects. Then they present the progress of the projects in meetings to senior management, taking credit for managing projects by virtue of their misleading titles and their access to senior management (who really hire them so that they can hand down distasteful demands through an intermediary and not have to face the professionals who actually do the heavy lifting of coordinating and delivering technically complex projects through their own collaboration).
I used to think the same, but you've missed a key component. Project Managers/Product Owners and Program Managers are also points of risk ownership. They own a delegated amount or designated level of risk of that project. So yes, they are hands off and are good at using Teams/Skype/WebEx for meeting booking. They also hold higher levels of delegation and weight within a strategic leadership chain. Its extremely beneficial to have someone like that onside, if you yourself don't have enterprise influence or presence within the chain of command.
I will say, I have worked for/met both shit and good managers between military and corporate life. There is bigger incentives to nourishing your team with praise, noting the quality of work if you bear the burden/hold the delegation + stress for them. I'm not a PM, but I am a tasking lead and have been so on and off for a decade, so I have a myriad of experience as an individual contributor/team member and then a senior SME/Lead.
There is a common denomination of quiet workers who don't posture themselves properly when conducting work and also allow poor leadership to occur. You don't have to be a position of authority, to be a good leader.
I'd also add, there are areas of delegation that are specified to those members within the strategic leadership chain. Being a risk owner is one, being a representative of enterprise is another given, being cognisant of contract/deliverables is another. Expectation Management (internal and external), Customer Management (or accounts, pending how your organisation structure is). The PMs I work with do not have it easier and unfortunately, despite what people think, your workload does not get easier as you progress. It becomes complicated and there are often more expectations of you (behavioural, enterprise knowledge, problem solving, addition meetings). Due to the complexity of the work, you need SMEs that are on tools and specialised at that problem solving, to give you that quality checked input. Then the PM owns the risk of it.
People often say Managers don't do shit, but I still feel even as a lead, that I lose 18hours a week to meetings plus OT I do as a requirement of role, where as my troops are clocked out to meet our fatigue calculators requirements. Not a single one does more than 40 hours a week (as per their agreement, to get extra time off each month). But for me, I juggle execution roles + senior SME input and its extremely derailing doing both. Having people within the chain of command that can soak and babysit some ADHOC taskings/deliverables is extremely handy and it also helps prompt other departments input (especially when you're not getting their support). So there are perks and benefits to those roles in a chain of command and its up to every person individually to make a work environment where open conversations can happen, limiting shitbag behaviour that would be deemed stealing glory/thunder.
There is a lot of merit in what you say. That is traditionally what happens-in government projects.
Correct
This is the best comment ever
You need to be a junior business analyst or project manager and pay your due. No body should parachute into anything. Leadership is empathy and you only get empathy thru work experience. Understand what the low level employees go thru before you become a Director or Manager.
and lots of companies allow this to happen, the onboarded directors/managers do well #s wise for several quarters or years, then the company typically flops because the method isnt sustainable.
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 We also as a society have to rethink how make valuations. Economics and moreover administration need to be examined if we are truly going to in the direction of sustainable capitalism. Technocracy in the 30's is one of things that I'm surprised hasn't gained more steam politically as stem and digital capitalism begin to dominate the global north and other industrialized economies.
@@timmanto1022 Totally on the same page. From where I'm sitting, most people would rather remain blind and just continue to enjoy their bread and circuses unfortunately
If someone does an MBA directly after their Bachelors degree, it really is pointless. Get a few years experience and then do an Executive MBA. It is infinitely more valuable.
sadly I'm working with too many of those "leaders" who have absolutely 0 idea how things work.
Seems to be the case with a lot of graduate schemes I've seen floating around online for various companies. Saw a supermarket posting about how a uni graduate had joined them through their graduate program and gone straight in as regional manager, they could only have been like 23 at the most so it seems strange that you'd bring someone new into your company and immediately give them that much responsibility.
I have a friend using her MBA degree as a way to ruin her ex husband in divorce court. I know someone else with an MBA whose running a start up that's losing money every month. I have a boss with an MBA degree that doesn't understand marketing and I considered getting an MBA myself but then I started making more with my own business just outsourcing work to web services, niche professionals and eager gen z workers who clear my plate so I can work on something else. Teamwork makes the dream work, not a piece of paper that proves you wrote a lot of essays
I went through a professional MBA Program where I had to have a minimum of 5 years of professional experience to gain entry. The program enhanced my leadership, ethics, communication and anylitical skills. I think Elon is correct on those who go straight through higher education and never held a "real job". California State Polytechnic University Pomona PMBA is a great program.
think twice before you pursue an MBA in this day and age. too many people have them now so the value is kinda low. one of my cousins had to send out nearly 300 applications before landing a job after getting an MBA.
MBA's are still teaching 1850's socio economic thinking. This is its major drawback. People come out thinking those ideas and ideals are set in stone for eternity, when in reality that thinking has 10 - 15 years left in it tops before it is completely irrelevant.
When I got my MBA, I thought the best thing I could do was to hire into a company at the lowest level possible and start learning about the company that way. No employer would allow that.
"just be rich off daddy's money bro"
There's a study that proves mbas drive out the high performance workers, over a few years everyone's pay will go down and the mbas pay will increase. There will be more bad workers , underpaid workers, and less workers in general, all of this will lead to liabilities and huge lawsuits that will financially cripple the business.
There is a reason why the top businesses all around the globe hire MBA graduates and for that reason is why people get MBA's.
I know someone with a Harvard MBA who became a actor and now is running for office 🤦🏾♀️
Biggest regret and waste of money in my entire life!
Its a mixed bag. Corporations are extremely bureaucratic and political in nature, not these perfect meritocratic entities. Often times people who "grow into" leadership positions do so not because they "earned it" as Elon implies, but simply because they are liked on a personal level by the right people in senior positions and/or have simply been around for a while. Experience and education are both meant to be signposts to illustrate an individuals competency, but neither is certainly perfect. Will agree that experience is generally more useful, but it is not a binary subject by any stretch.
That's why Tesla prices dropped 47% & Twitter fucked up 😂
There should be a time/experience requirement to enter into an MBA Program. People who go from Undergrad > Grad school and then into the workplace should always start out as the Janitor!
and this is where an MBA holder shows charisma
You should never be proud of the fact that you cut a corner to get there first.
An MBA to supplement your real degree is a decent idea if you want to get into managment.
An MBA should be something you do after you have had a number of years of experience in the field you're going to study. To enhance your skill.
Executives are some of the most helpless people in the office environment. Most are overpaid and have no technical skills in the age of technology. A lot of them are high stressed and have mental health issues. They are completely disconnected from the middle class and are socially awkward at best.
As an MBA guy...I appreciate and agree with Elon's assessment...
“I dont want to trash too much” 😂😂
Took a job sweeping floors and ended up turning a 1 million a year retailer to 50 mill in 3 years. Didnt have my high school lol. Failed functions o. Purpose.
lol all those transparent chairs around the desk are herman miller chairs, cost $1,570 each.
Meanwhile he has 2 ivy league degrees and attended a PhD program at Stanford
When your daddy owns a South African copper mine I guess and MBA is unnecessary.
Tall, good looking, top of the high school sports team? ...
... -> Macy's CEO ! 💥💨
Sounds pretty good but in reality those MBA got hired by these companies with lot of money 💰. That’s all we need with our IQ level.
An MBA is about management and the structure of business in general. Has little to do with leadership. Leadership is a personal quality that a manager may or may not have. It’s best to have both in the C-Suite. An athlete may be a great leader and suck at tying marketing to profitability, while an MBA may be great at “PowerPoint presentations” but not have great charisma.
got a harvard business school ad right after the video ended 🤣🤣
🤣
😂😂😂
UA-cam’s ad system bruh💀💀
I got MIT's😂
😂😂😂😂
Experience + education is the best combination
Lies again? Star Bucks Spank Bang
Experience is the best educator
Experience is the education. Ppl need to stop calling the peice of paper "education" it's just a paper to separate yourself from all the other Experienced ppl.
@@emmettoransky5088 yes
Which one comes first?
As an engineer with an MBA, I totally agree. There is no substitute for real-world experience. However, MBA's were designed to supplement knowledge not replace it. It helps people that don't have the opportunity to gain business knowledge from their work environment.
basicaly, the MBA is for people to get promoted... not for a first job. so an engineer can become an engineering manager. not so a green horn can become a super-intendant.
Except it doesn't. Having a masters gives a false sense of understanding when you don't have the experience to apply the knowledge.
@@BoBoZoBoyou missed the entire point of his comment.
I did the same route. Engineering for project managers. Even had to read case studies about this exact scenario Musk is talking about. Where greenhorn engineers with MBA’s parachute in and many of the blue collar employees view their new manager as not so much inept but view their manager as “having not earned their spot”. Best way to ease this tension is for both parties to recognize they are in the same team, to understand that both are going to work hard, and that just because scholastic work is more mental than physical that there is a lot of hard work involved to get those degrees. Unfortunately, Musk is very correct that those degrees have become devalued recently. The younger generation is told to “go to school” to procure a better future. But when they finally get out of school there are no jobs or companies refuse to hire them due to “lack of experience”. Really is a catch 22.
@@JM-vf8tk Negative, that's the entire point of his comment about parachuting in.
He’s not trashing the MBA. He’s trashing the mindset that some people may have behind what an MBA would do for them. Basically calling out those who think an MBA is their catalyst into leadership. There are a lot of pathways for advancement. I wish hard work and being good at your job was all that mattered, but unfortunately it is not. Otherwise the demographics of executive leadership would look very different in the U.S.
You need to understand something in life. When people give a reason, you need to understand the REAL reason. Yes he is trashing the MBA, but he's being nice about it. 99% of people arent gonna be leaders because it requires one to be a polymath, know a lot about a lot of things, sacrifice, valor, honor, high painthreshold, etc. Many combinations at a high level that most people wont have
Can u elaborate on what matters??other than hardwork.
@@RR-et6zp what does being a polymath have to do with leadership?
@@jeffthevomitguy1178 everything
@@RR-et6zp can you use 1% of your oversized brain to elaborate to us lesser small brains what you mean by that?
This was my biggest frustration working as a COO and board members on a publicly traded company. There are people that have a certification for everything you can imagine, yet understand none of it.
That's why so many corporations want individuals with plenty of workforce experience because there, you are exposed in an environment that tests the thinking capacity and understand of the job description...
Most fresh-out-of-college graduates barely understand much because they've been rushed through the system and bombarded with material that takes a lot of time to really digest and utilize in a practical situation later in life... They just memorize as much as they can for that exams and that's it... Forget all that the next day and you have a 'graduate'...
To most individuals, that experience is a commodity they can never attain without being given the chance to try and fail first... This has to come at the expense of the corporation aiming for profits and those risks, they'll never take... So we end up stuck in a failing system that's only benefiting a minority and failing a majority...
I hear you, its a weird divide that should not exist. Its counterproductive to success.
As the data and analytics muscle that understands all facets, I have turned very cautious on who and how much I help. Too many years of getting burned by the glory hunting pretenders.
It sucks, because my caution does not get the company the best help which makes me even more mad. At the same time, how many times does a person have to allow the exploitation? 🤷♂️
I noticed this as well burned me bad last time i was on the hiring team for a new engineer guy had a masters in engineering management. And a bunch of certs i didnt look close enough at the work history due to being impressed by the schooling compared to my just a bachelors. 3 months into hiring the guy he constantly made junior engineer mistakes and quit in about 10 months
Humble brag
I make a point of never hiring people with too many qualifications. Those types are almost always useless at doing actual work. Work history beats certs every time.
I totally agree with Elon, I got my MBA from Penn and most of my classmates didn´t give a damn about the courses, they just wanted to get the degree to go boss around
Same with Masters in real estate investment and finance
Exactly
So why did you get it? Genuinely curious
@@Jamjar-iu3ji For me both learning and $$$ return. Is an achievement in life regardless of financial return.
I hear you. I did my MBA at one of FT Top 50 schools, and I can confidently say that I only learned something from 10% of the class. Everyone else was just in there for the degree, and they had nothing valuable to share.
Its refreshing to hear this, especially as an engineer. It feels like almost all companies went down this route of only MBAs are allowed in management and the engineering can be outsourced or swapped out. I've gotten sick of leaders that dont even know how to use the products they supposedly lead.
My last company was like this. The guy in charge of the engineers was NOT an engineer and you could see all the problems were rooted in him not being competent to lead them because he doesn’t know what they do or how they do it.
I never understood why corporations would hire a manager with no experience in the company, overlooking a hardworking employee who has been there for years
Same. Always undermined the fuckers anyway
Because internal hiring still leaves you with a position to hire: the person who you just promoted. And usually, the lower employee is usually the one doing the work, so they're technically more difficult to replace.
@@acrxsls1766 that do not make sense because they are still looking for someone to hire for the manager position anyway. Either way they're looking for someone to hire.
That's most companies
Leadership is the only attribute that still till this day has no degree that properly represents it’s qualities. He has a very valid point and if you think he is trash talking you don’t understand what it takes to be a leader. Schools can’t really teach you how to be good at this, at best they can only give you examples. Life is best at teaching this!
Thats why degrees are a prerequisite but not necessarily the requirement.
ROTC / Military Science can do a pretty good job.
degrees are horrible
@@leanit5756 That's the worst of all. An enlisted serviceperson with one day in a unit would do 20x better than a mere cadet.
It’s funny he says this but yet they don’t hire people that don’t have degrees pay attention to that, “you don’t need a degree” then they only hire the best with degrees
That's because they are more likely to find better candidates?
You don't need a degree to work for them
You have wrong info.there r plenty of freelance engineers and people who work in his companies without degrees but ofc you have to be exceptional for that.
he is talking about MBAs not standard University Degree .. and I do agree most people do an MBA primarly because they think it will give them more networking and visibility so they can get a better job .. they don't do it because they can learn something more.
Lol, no
Yeah in the "corporate world" it's all about presentation. Who cares whether you have the knowledge and technical edge, you just need to look like you know what you're doing. The thing about working a job is that it's not really about hard work, it's about taking the minimal effort to upward movement.
True
The entrepreneur cares, ..you've just been given an entrepreneur's perspective
Exactly. This is capitalism. This is playing the game. Trying to only work your way up is risky because you can get laid off or hurt etc then you look so much worse on paper for the next job 100%.. Not everybody has the same path.
@@andersonpyaban8042 vast major of people going to school arent worried about an entrepreneur’s perspective, unfortunately.
There is no shortcut upward, this person will be exposed eventually
Yea Ima go with what's been stated, Elon isn't trashing MBAs, he's simply stating that MBA grads have this misconception that they'll be automatically great leaders once they join the workforce because of their completed education. But that's the thing, and education teaches you the fundamentals and sets a great foundation from where you can build on, and eventually establish yourself as a great leader but youre still starting at the bottom if you dont have the work experience
MBA is pretty much a worthless degree that anyone can get if they want to. It's a glorified high school diploma.
Elon has the misconception that MBA's have the conception they'll automatically be great leaders.
@@dutchdna But a lot of them do....
Actually there's a great barrier where the best MBA products are lousily treated and it takes years and years if working hard before you are given the opportunity but that time the desire and fire is gone in many case. And worse the knowledge also evaporates to an extent and bad habits set in.
If they only knew that all they have to do is overhype something and never deliver. Hyperloop, self driving cars that net you profits, etc...lol
A guy who grew up rich and never got past a bachelor’s degree in science who later tanked a social media powerhouse doesn’t give me much confidence on his opinion about master’s degrees or just business in general
Try getting ajob in Tesla corp without a degree
Entirely different. Working in Tesla corp, yes a degree in engineering - mechanical, aerospace, software engineering, even degrees in mathematics or physics would be desired. An MBA is entirely different, it's practically useless and a waste of money.
Yes a lot of these people in leadership at these corps hold advance science degrees.
A lot of people at Tesla corp hold a degree, yes, but they're not there because they hold a degree as much as it is a byproduct of it and something useful. Because even Elon Musk said you don't need a college degree to work at Tesla.
ok. i am applying for janitor.
@@Verziroo you are wrong. Look under the HR application it requires a degree if you want to work at Tesla.
thats true because academics teach you whats written in a book but if you want to run or start a business it's very practical, there are no books about this. There is no step by step guide how to start a successful company, it depends on million things and a lot of it you just have to figure out as you go, it's not possible prepare yourself for it in the school
Yeah, but the diploma gets you in. It doesn't teach you anything useful, but it gets you in and then you do the rest.
@@jorgepadua5802 get in what? you mean joining existing company? I was talking about starting a new company
Go check Tesla's job requirements. They require college degrees LOL
for their technical roles - and that's only for applicants looking at stem related positions. Looking at project managers, business roles, etc Tesla and SpaceX both value actual OTJ experience.
Edit: changed Look to Looking to better match verb tense.
@@assasination1100 Go review the job postings for SpaceX and Tesla - I'd link you out here but unfortunately youtube doesnt allow external links in comments. The types of jobs I referred to do not require collegiate level education. Of course it's going to be recommended, but these jobs typically require 5+ years relevant PM experience and a business certification from an accredited organization.
To answer your question no, I'm not willing to relocate from my current location just to work for a Musk founded company. I'm already sitting pretty with an engineering gig where I'm currently at. Cheers!
PHYSICS / ENGINEERING
He said MBAs
It's nothing but showing experience required
After working for 23 years, getting my MBA was the best and most rewarding decisions of my life. He’s right, an MBA for someone with zero work experience is useless. Its like sending someone to cooking school who has never eaten then hiring them as a head chef 🤷♀️ What misguided hiring manager would ever put a student with zero experience into a leadership position is the real question.
No it's not and he is not right. You people are so weird. Why do you think people with a MBA won't learn anything in their employment and can grow from where they start? Like wtf is this fallacious way of thinking.
youd be surprised
@@JackRR15 .....sounds like you are one of those "experts" who knows everything right from the start. I have worked with people like you before. Always full of answers .....but unable to think.
.
@@JackRR15work experience here says he is right🤷♂️
Had some talks about about as to "whyTF" and the reasoning was that the people in position know their work and if they were to promote them they might lose actual manpower.
@@taxicamelhe’s the one with the masters degree and he’s not able to think. Do you realize the ignorance ? It’s absurd
Translation: "I wish nobody had an MBA. That way i'd be able to charge minimum pay for maximum work. MBA people know what they are doing and won't fall for my "You have to work harder for less money" scams."
Its really interesting to me that this is becoming a common attitude towards education in quite a few fields. With the wealth of information available at relatively low costs, people who have a natural predisposition for a trade or field, can work their way from the lowest rungs to the highest. Bosses who understand the work that is done at the lowest levels have a much better understanding of their capabilities and limitations.
This used to be the standard way of doing things. Back then businesses lasted alot longer and provided alot more value. Nowadays MBAs are all about their bonuses and cut, cut, cut. They dont know anything else besides slash and burn.
MBAs are a stain on modern civilisation period!
Know the cost of everything and the value of nothing...
Facts 💯
Agreed, but what do you say to people like me who have spent the equivalent of the price of a home (not to mention all the years of depriving yourself of a social life) on their education because we were all told that this was the best way to get a good career - "tough luck"??
@@annieholbis2430 basically. The world sucks.
@@annieholbis2430 The only consolation I believe I can offer is a bit of empathy. I joined the service after high school. Most of my friends, at 17-19 years of age, bravely took on loans that will haunt their existence for the next decade or two. I got out after 3 years with a guaranteed education free of charge and good work experience. The library and clep exams have become my dearest of friends.
There is a flaw in the boot strap theory, because the decision making process of most people is heavily affected by forces which exist beyond the realm of their consciosness. My heart really does go out to anyone who was never exposed to the alternative. Nevertheless, we as a society (US) have the almost pathological need to associate a degree (which essentially anyone can get, if they pay) with authority, competence, and prestige. We need to embrace our blue collar folk as the indispensable assets to society that they are, rather than as the “uneducated”.
Yes Mr. Musk. Parachutes!
I have an MBA and I need to be hands on to test theories we set forth. But, Elon isn’t bashing it, he’s just saying, living it is better than just saying it. Which I agree.
You're not an MBA, maybe you've completed an MBA. That's the reason Elon said, you don't tell anyone about it, especially if you think you are an MBA. Heheheheh!!
Yeah I play in the NBA!
I don't trust people who have masks on their avatar
@@behrouz6625 you have to be college educated to be dumb enough to wear a mask for an avatar.
So he might be an MBA.
I am currently doing an MBA. I agree with him, but I honestly don't know anyone in my class that plans to just slot into a leadership position without having the experience. The MBA just gives you the leg up over ppl with the same experience. If I had to pick between someone with 15 years experience and someone with an MBA and only 3 years experience I will take the person with more experience. But between 2 people who both have 15 years experience but one has the MBA, then its a no brainer.
I wanna parachute into being the boss LOL!
Basically degree provides evidence of one's abilities (atleast theoretically). Otherwise how else would you convince someone that you are good at something without them knowing you?
Maybe a right opportunity of internships,nd it's certificates is helpful
A portfolio of projects and results can substitute a degree.
@@rustytrax4294 no.
@@dac8939 a degree doesn't necessarily mean results.
@@akshay4892 yea sure buddy. Look at you, you are making youtube videos while other mba grads are making more money than you could ever even dream of.
When MBA's were "invented" it was a ticket to higher management from middle management. A prerequisite was 6 years working in a management position. As Universities saw this as an opportunity to rake in more dough, the business school's departments of Economics changed the requirements having a degree in Business, and then to anyone with a degree and now to anyone with the money. An MBA currently is just more debt.
Well said. It's the same with most over- advertised degrees and diplomas and certifications. They're hyped because they're hollow and make the school a lot of money.
@@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470 And hiring people is contracted out to recruiting companies who only look at paper qualifications. I got rejected for technical jobs because years of experience and applicable tech certifications didn't meet the "university graduate" criteria.
😂🤣😂🤣😂 Reading the title of this video “I don’t want to trash MBA too much here”
He took one minute, stuttering and stammering, to say that experience is more important than a degree. He could use a course in public speaking. Hahaha
There are two types of people.
People who read and have a lot of bookish knowledge.
People who work in the real world and have a lot of real world experience.
And guess what, no matter how many books you read, how many theories, philosophies, and ideas you read, none of those can compare to the experience you gain from actually working in the real space.
Sure, for STEM fields, you need to study, get a degree, and then get a job. But after getting a job, its all the real world experience that helps you become a better at your job.
But, in other fields, you don't really need to read hundreds of books to know what to do, just get your ass up, start working, and learn as you go.
Most self made millionaires and billionaires were not Ph.D Graduates, they read enough to get started, and once they started, they kept grinding and improving.
Musk spent 7 years at University getting degrees in Economics and Physics.
I took my state's MBA program because 1) it's cheaper, 2) I'm close to home, 3) I needed some business knowledge since biology was my major from undergrad.
You did nothing wrong
Elon musk is trying to say MBA is not needed to the people who have majority of shares.
People might not like my POV but the way I see a MBA is taking the easy path and buying your way to a higher management role bc of 3 reasons.
1) Most things under “business” can self tought
2) As a Comp sci major most comp sci majors or engineering majors that can’t keep up most of the time switch to business because it easy
3) If you wanted a degree that pays extremely well, law or the medical field is only a additional 2 years of school
Actually you are wrong about law. The perception that law is the highest paid degree is an outdated perception from people who are oblivious to the economic projections of the future, and blindly relying upon past reputation. According to expert economic predictions, computer science and finance will have higher median and 90th percentile incomes over law due to the advancements in AI and technology. Even some sectors in engineering will exceed law like biotechnology and renewable energy. You have to keep up with the times.
I wonder if he thinks billionaires shouldn’t automatically become CEOs of companies they buy and have no experience in…they just parachute in and buy and start making random changes. Wtf is X?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️🤣😭 WTF is X
Easy for him to say after he went to Wharton which is the best business shcool in the world
I believe he dropped out of a physics degree in Stanford to build his first business in his apartment with his brother.
@@4biFarm the apartment they rented was actual a store-front/business office they rented and slept in (for a 1/2 year or so) from what I've read. Definitely not the standard path and considering he went to Wharton and is now the richest man in the world i'd take his practical advice over a random university advocate personally :)
@@4biFarm there are rumours he never went to Stanford, he probably lied so he gets more credibility
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 his dad owned a emerald mine he also invested 29k in his first business so I'm pretty sure Elon musk was well offf even before he sold zip 2
@@RandomVideos-kn3pf oh no doubt: he definitely had a better group of investors than most people did at his age - not to mention the support system therein. I dont think that should detract from the accomplishments he's been able to achieve in his 50 years of life though... granted it's mostly through building of teams and being the first to act on some big ideas, still no small feat
And then tesla gives priorities to people with MBA from big university.
It is his opinion, But parterns, employees and Board member still ptefer High qualified people ( at least on paper)
@Jalter Payton Ivy League MBAs. Totally different than anything else. MBAs from non top ranked school are nothing
Great point.
From my experience, business can be learned fairly easily... I think studying a sector of STEM that inspires you is much more valuable in innovation and product creation. Elon Musk is a clear example of that.
Elon's points are all extremely well taken, however I will also say that personally going back for an MBA (the education, not the degree) was one of the best decisions I ever made. It was the only way I would have been able to stop working long enough to finish my education. Having the education (not the degree) continually enables me to keep my company out of trouble, mostly by being able to stop bad decisions and make persuasive arguments framed in terms of a P&L.
He's right. But there is also a reason why people pay so much fuckin money to go to these MBA programs. The job/ networking opportunities u get from the name on the diploma is what ur paying for, not the education
Goes for almost everything. All knowledge is available online but it takes time to be certified & you get privileges. Musk himself was doing PhD in Physics. I very much doubt he would have been so successful if he didn't utilise his contacts he made there to venture into business afterwards.
He's not your average fellow if he was doing PhD in a STEM field.
@@gabbar51ngh Actually getting a PhD in STEM is different from starting it and dropping out of it. Anyone with a good enough bachelor's in physics can do a PhD and I don't think you need to be that smart to get a good enough bachelor's in physics. As long you're not completely dumb it should be fine. Completing a PhD is a different thing altogether. Not saying Elon Musk is not smart. Just saying that starting a PhD is not a big deal.
@@achyuththouta6957 you are assuming getting a bachelor's in physics is that easy & anyone can do it. That's not really the case based of how many fail to do STEM in general.
As much as I've experienced applying for MBAs, MBAs in USA do seem to care about leadership skills to an extent and mandate work experience (3+ yrs) to be considered eligible for the MBA programs. But when I come to Indian B-schools, the condition is deplorable. 9/10 B-schools in India, even the premier ones, have no minimum work ex requirement due to which majority of the class joins MBA straight out of undergrad. They do not make good managers, and def not good leaders atleast from what I've experienced after working under such people
So much true. Indian MBA have no clue how to solve a problem. Most of the times they play blame game. They don't know how to bring in profits without cutting employees off. There best friend is tell 1 guy to do 20 guy work and save money for company. They are worst in problem solving but like to show off alot.
@Paul S racist
@Paul S why are you so rude
The exception being ISB.
Now I know why corporate hospitals are run the way they are.... 😶😶😶
I'm a chemical engineer who has worked up into an area manger position within a chemical plant. I'm going to MBA school because I want to learn the business side of things and eventually want to be a leader within my company. I think that is the right way to go
I think MBA is only one of the requirements to get higher management positions, not the only requirement.
It’s becoming something that smart companies don’t want around. They want real world people.
@@JamesPhillipsOfficial nobody will read it. Including me.
MBA Course is like £18,000 and that's the Online version in the UK with the Open University, so basically it's designed for rich people who want a ticket to being "the boss" and Elon Musk is absolutely right, ive worked in places where their arrogance supersedes the functionality of the business, they get so drunk on power, like everyday is the weekend. It can be toxic, but I bet there's also those who parachute in as the boss and make an effort to learn the business and care about it - those people are the exception though
some companies won't consider you for leadership without an MBA
@@tg-us3hw Not some, MOST of them.
In Germany, it can cost like 300 eur/mo in an international school online, but guys what about Msc in Business Administration? In some countries like Belgium and Italy, they can cost super cheap and u can go to top EU schools for (4k euros per year or less)
MBA's a re not a waste of money, he should double check the statistics on MBA grads compensation.
I haven't went to business school or have a master's in business but I'm working pretty well as Marketing Manager (after spending 6 years as marketer). So what Elon is saying is 100% true. You need to have ground level experience before working as a manager or director
Elon: "I don't want to trash MBAs" Title: Elon musk roasting MBA degree
😅
100% agree.
I earned a design degree and about 18 years later I earned an MBA at night for the ability to have more meaningful discourse with those that earned an mba in the director executive ranks. What I came to realize was, more than not, the upper ranks were filled with posers and scared they would be found out. It many ways having an mba threatened many directors and executives that were accustomed to dismissing my art skills as incidental. Now I arrive with decades of professional design experience and some certified business acumen (mba) ... and it impedes my ability to collaborate with the executives I was seeking to reach out to.
you can't stop here, go do your thing
you may or may not do well to relocate to a different market, including that known as the internet. i have no idea what/how you do, but you might be the fish trying to grow in the wrong pond(s).
similarly, read 48 Laws of Power and anything else by Robert Greene. you-yourself say it: you are dealing with threatened-feeling people. whether within your company or immediate market, you have to play the game to your best advantage at least until you get into something else, somewhere else. And people skills, for those who are threatened, or for those who have the myriad other foibles/problems of humanity, said people skills will never go out of style or out of need.
the above said, if they don't want to work with you, go find those who view your experiences/talents as a plus, not a threat. similarly, for sake of a controlled experiment, you may want to leave mba off any resume you send out, then wait until right time in interviewing process (or not) to share of that particular credential.
don't stay stuck. don't be afraid to try anything crazy. you're in the art field, there's shitloads of ways and places you can bring your full skillset/talents to bear so long as you don't get picky. you might have other problems, but you won't be stuck anymore, and first progress brings further progress if you keep on it.
as Mursal Noor says "you can't stop here, go do your thing"
As it is with most professions. Sadly
Yes, I moved from being a pure historian into economics and business and found that history skills are really valuable. Like when the poo hits the fan they always ask "What happened?"
Said someone who held a bachelor degree and cannot go through his PHD😅
Get that diploma or any piece of paper plus work experience, and you'll always standout above the rest. Also, stop believing Bill Gates or Elon Musk are self-made, when their parents wealth or connections had a lot to do with their success.
I agree and have an MBA. Too many of my peers had a 'parachuting in' and short cuts mentality and stagnated later. It's a great course for condensing 10 or 15 years of business experience, but it's only a starting point to going deeper. If you really build knowledge on top of an MBA, then business becomes a playground.
work your way up?? many companies don't offer higher salaries to analysts. MBA boosts salaries. Atleast here, we can go for an MBA without any workex. It's upto us.
Maybe it's the long term solution that he's talking about
omg you didnt pay attention lol
@@akshay4892 he didnt listen to the convo
@Señor Taco MBAs dont get leadership roles directly after grad.
@@jgalvan09 You need to listen properly.
Not a roast, just making very valid points
I worked my way up from a videographer to Director of Marketing in 5 years. No formal education, just a strong desire to learn and work my ass off. I can tell you from experience that when I got to that level & we hired on more directors with MBA’s , they struggled to lead people, come up with good ideas, and ultimately not respected by the team. Most of them took a different job for more pay cause they couldn’t get promoted or got fired. They sucked lol. Not saying this is always the case but definitely true in my situation.
Musk spent 7 years at University, and has 2 degrees.
I actually agree 100% Hey I have a degree now give me all that money!!!! even thou I am 24 years old and I don't know anything! well said.
He's not trash talking MBAs, so low of you, had to cut the exact part he was explaining how they are valuable in a different sense. All comment haters have no MBA and couldn't get into HBS! Lol we understand guys
Just wondering how many times he's going to repeat himself about MBA's parachuting in and working your way up. Did he say anything more substantive than that over the course of the full minute here?
Uh... uh... uh... uh... He talks like a stupid 14 years old. He repeated the same concept like 3 times. Oh,I don't have an MBA.
Funny how we very often used to focus our attention on Elon during my MBA, because of his unique leadership skills and entrepreneurial abilities. I somehow believed at the time, he wanted to convince people about the unique experience of driving a Tesla. That's what resonated with me mostly at the time. It seemed he was committed in creating a unique experience. An experience you wouldn't have with any other car.
As an MBA degree holder, do you think MBA is worth it as in employment? Is it a high payed skill?
@@User-rz7de well it depends. An MBA allows you to get closer to the value of doing business, and understand different perspectives. You focus on the value of creating and generating profit. So an MBA encapsulates a set of skills development like leadership, which can help you become a better parent maybe and teach you how to be a team, understand where your value can be more concerned. This is not a perfect world and given constraints and priorities, an MBA is definitely not a guarantee, like any other degree. I am also a geologist and women are often not concidered for the job. Some people use the MBA make more money. Different people have different priorities.
Often the problems with MBAs is that they view a companies product as it's stock and their #1 incentive is to maximize their/bonus compensation before they're gone.
"MBA are wothless"
Also Tesla and PayPal :"We need people with masters and MBA"
MBA is pretty much a worthless degree that anyone can get if they want to. It's a glorified high school diploma.
@@AAAA-gj7tn sure buddy sure
Whatever make you sleep tonight
@@fdvkkkkkkkk4542 Facts don't care about your feelings.
@@AAAA-gj7tn what facts?
And why did you delete your comments 🤣
How many really practice what they learnt from an MBA course? - many just want a MBA cert titled in their resume. Period.
I didn't imagine MBA's are that incompetent
Says the man who was born rich, with blood diamonds. For the rest of us, who have to carve their way up the ladder, an mba might be a good choice. But street smarts and emotional intelligence are far more important.
Elon had privileged upbringing..
But In Canada. He worked crappy jobs..and he took alot of risk.its annoying people keep saying it's because his dad is rich that's how Elon became Elon.
It's funny how he says "I don't wanna trash MBA's too much here"
From my experience in the corporate world, rarely does the best and most intelligent person truly advance in their careers. In fact I never saw that one time. Rather it's a political game, sometimes the person is friends with the hiring manager or has bedazzled them in other ways besides accmplishments in the workplace.
Elon says many things and talks a lot, he will tell you about how you don't need a stem degree to be an engineer (because he couldnt get one), he talks about how degrees are meaningless, he talks about MBA being a waste of money.
But the reality in his companies are the absolute opposite: positions are filled with people that graduated from MIT, Stanford, Berkeley and Ivy League schools, managers high in the hierarchy all have MBAs, it is virtually impossible for someone that may have very good technical skills but zero credentials to ever be hired, and even less likely to be promoted, in any of his enterprises, period.