Indeed Mr Hobby products are much appreciated by scale or Gunpla modellers. I think (not 100% sure) that it is lacquer acrylics, not enamel. This type of product chemically etch into the surface, hence they are much more resilient than water based acrylic primers. This also make the m great if you scractch build or use miwed media, resin plastic, metal or whatever, you will have an even surface in the end. Note that Mr Hobby surfacers contain micro filler, and the lower the number the thicker they are. For example 500 grade can be used to fill some gaps, in that case brush application is more precise. 1500 grade is fine for priming. You get something like your GW chaos black spray can, including the toxicity.
I love the Mr Hobby Surfacer 1500 rattle cans. Black, white, gray and oxide red. For those without space to safely spray I really suggest trying out the rattle cans. I use em all year round here in Japan with perfect results every time.
Hi vince. Not a question but more just a remark. You've been in this business for so long and I have learned quite a bit from you. Especially the color theory videos which are among my favorites. Just wanted to say: keep up the good work!
We swear by the spray version of 1500 here in Japan because even from June through September you can still get a super smooth prime coat despite the ridiculous humidity. That said I definitely leave them outside (in a box on the balcony) for at least half an hour before bringing them back in. Don’t mess with those fumes.
Hey Vince, love your videos. Do you have a dedicated video on posture, arm position and related stuff? There is probably not a universal way to paint, but I think there could be a great benefit for others to see someone who is painting a lot (and long hours) how he's doing it. I'm asking, because last month I started painting longer sessions (some days 6-10 hours) and am starting to feel it. Part of the problem might be my hight (6'4). Thanks for your great content. Have a nice weekend!
Great idea. As a 66 year-old with minor, but nagging back issues, I really need some ideas on comfortable painting posture, seat to desk height and the like.
Vince - I’m glad to see you give Gunpla products some attention 🎉. Mr. Hobby lacquers really are the best primers. I think you’ll really love the Mr. Hobby GX Metal Color line 😊. A couple interesting things: - the “400” in Mr Hobby leveling thinner refers to the amount of lacquer thinner in the bottle 400ml - “1500” in Mr Surface Finisher 1500 Black refers to the grit of the finish when dry, 1500 grit. - for safety, it’s worth mentioning that the respirator filters need to be rated organic compounds (VOCs). I like 3M P100 60926 or 60923 filters.
I’ve been using this for my gunpla and scale models for years and it is an amazing primer and paint. I would also recommend eye protection. Also I believe it’s lacquer based and not enamel.
Was dropping in here to mention that the paper mask shown along side the respirator in the video is no good, but I see someone was already on top of it.
The company that produces Mr Hobby, GSI Creos, also makes incredible bang for buck airbrushes. The 0.3mm PS-289 is eighty bucks and keeps up with $200 airbrushes in my collection. A starter airbrush you’ll never outgrow.
I've been spreading the good word of their airbrushes for years. I wholesale replaced all the badgers and iwatas a had and never looked back. Barbaros Rex sold me on them.
For those considering trying this, a couple of things not mentioned in the video: lacquer thinner (and other aggressive solvents) will deteriorate the seals in lower end airbrushes-- make sure your airbrush has ptfe seals before attempting. Also, n95 masks and similar are not sufficient for lacquer thinner, please use a mask rated for organic vapors
@@janfranc7427 I think I have the same as Vince. I went to Home Depot and bought one which I think was graded for organic compounds. Funnily enough, I bought it to clean a mess in my house. I did not want to deal with the odor, thus why it needed to filter organic compounds. As a side note, it seems that I have found a new usage for it!
@@janfranc7427 I use a 3M cartridge mask (similar to the one Vince is wearing at the beginning of the video). You can get cartridges for particles similar to N95 or vapors or both. I usually use the 3M 60923 cartridges that protect against particles/dust and vapors, covers pretty much all the bases.
If you haven’t yet, for zenithal lights, try thinning the Tamiya flat white acrylic with lacquer thinner (especially leveling lacquer thinners). It takes the already great Tamiya flat white to an insane level of control with functionally no tip dry.
The Tamiya X-2 white as they have a few ranges. It's cheap and with its thinner it is great. Durable, great control. Andy Wardle (Cult of Paint) swears by.
I’ve been using the Mr Hobby Lacquer white for all of my white zenithal work now. It is the perfect white airbrush paint it sprays perfectly and you can thin it all the way down to nothing and still get a perfect spray! Tamiya xf white is still fantastic!
For anyone who, like me, comes from a background of using other solvent-based finishes (and likes saving money) who thinks, "Hey, the Mr. Hobby Thinner is just lacquer thinner - I can just use regular old lacquer thinner to dilute the primer!" The Mr. Hobby thinner has a different ratio of solvents than hardware store lacquer thinner, and will add unwanted texture to your primer coat due to melting the plastic until the solvent flashes off. The Mr Hobby stuff doesn't melt your plastic - don't make the mistake I did :) That said, this primer is unparalleled in quality when used as directed in this video.
Thank you for addressing MrHobby Primer. I became very interested in it after seeing it on Ninjon's channel. Toxicity is a concern for me, and it means I will likely avoid using it. However, I'm even more interested in Tamiya X-20A as a thinner for airbrushing. The almost instant drying effect looks spectacular in Sergio Calvo's videos. Are you thinning with Tamiya X-20A? Are you taking similar precautions due to its toxicity?
I appreciate the mask warnings but they aren't quite correct. Particulate masks (n95 etc) and hepa filters don't do much for the nasty volatiles in lacquer. You need a filter cartridge rated for organic vapours and as much fresh airflow as you can get.
Honestly, Tamiya, Mr Hobby and other scale modeling brands are so much better than miniature brands. I only use rattle can primer atm but I’m saving up for a better spray booth before I switch. Then I plan on using the tamiya flat white for zenithal pre shading
Have you tried the Mr Hobby Aqueous yet Vince? Acrylic primer from the same range, I've found it very good, better than any of the other equivalent acrylic primers, but I've never tried using the enamel range so I can't say how it compares.
I've used both. IMO the lacquer primer is a bit better, with coverage, finish etc. But the Aqueous is still pretty great and needs a lot less PPE to use. The Aqueous is my go to now, just for convenience and I have kids in the house so I don't want to risk exposing them to anything nasty.
Pretty sure it is lacquer based, and not enamel. Laqcuer paint seems pretty nice in general. I don't have the capacity to use lacquers though. Curse my living situation.
I'm in Malaysia and we are humid all year round. This primer, and all of the Mr. color line JUST WORK. Often I even use this black mr. surfacer as a semi-gloss black.
For resin and plastic i've been using the mr hobby for years as I come from the gunpla hobby, I do notice that metal miniatures and metal in general it doesnt really grip that well. Best I've found for metal is the tamiya spray cans "surface primer fine"
Mr Hobby makes both resin and metal primers that stick perfectly to the intended material and are great for priming over as normal. The metal primer comes in both a rattle can and a bottle for brush-on application. Both forms dry clear. I’ve only seen the resin primer in a rattle can, and it dries grey.
3:51: As an FYI, that KN95 mask you show there briefly *_will not_* protect you from the organic solvent vapours created during airbrushing a solvent-based product. They're _only_ rated for particles.
@@jukuloma I'm not sure if the colours are universal (Google it for your country just in case) but at least here, filters rated for it have a band in black (organic solvents only), yellow (acid gases & organic solvents), or brown (acid gases, organic solvents, and ammonia). So, the respirator mask he wears at the start and shows later is an example of a suitable one, as the filters on it have a brown band. However, _all_ of the N# and P# masks, as well as pink filters, are _only_ rated for particulates.
I just started using this stuff recently as well, and I really like it. One thing to add is that the cartridges on your respirator should be rated for organic vapors to work with solvent based paints. I run 3M 60921 P100 cartridges in mine.
If you want an acrylic primer that applies smoothly unthinned and doesn't clog, I really recommend Molotow one4all. I can prime like 40 figures with it without ever cleaning the airbrush in between. It's also durable enough for handling the models, perhaps not as much as an enamel primer, but has the upside of not producing toxic fumes when sprayed
@@MrGunnar177 I haven't tried it on metals, only resin and plastic. I would expect it to behave differently from polyurethane primers, since those form a gummy layer that can peel off. Molotow by contrast is pretty unflexible, i.e. if you spill one drop it cracks when it dries, but from my experience it has good grip on the surfaces I used it on. Don't know how easily it can be scratched off metal though, but for sure it won't peel. By the way it's meant to be a refill for acrilyc markers from the same brand, so it will perform similar to those
I discovered Mr Hobby products when building gunpla. Started using their primers and clear coats on minis and it works like a charm. You get the same results from the rattle cans, too.
If I recall correctly, organic solvents demyelinate neurons. It would certainly be best to use a fume hood. I am not sure the precise value of neurons in cash, but if you're going to use these things the fume hood would be money well spent. I'm a patron of yours, and I endorse using some of that Patreon money for the hood :). EDIT: you might get good results if you can get the proper filter for an airbrush booth...???
I can't get you a precise value of neurons either, but if you have to spend the last few years of your life in a memory care facility, that'll run you at least $6k/month or $360,000 over 5 years. So they're worth at LEAST that.
As a possible alternative for people who might not want to use this, or do not have an airbrush, I get what looks like quite similar results with the rattle cans of Vallejo black. They are much cheaper than Citadel's, and they come with two nozzles. I always use the one for lower flow. The normal one is like Citadel's, it is very easy to put too much paint. The slow flow one actually works more like the airbrush in the video. I have decided to try this and see how it goes, but it will take 2 weeks to arrive, so...
It’s been a long twenty years of catch up. I came from scale modeling so I was shocked to see when I came into the hobby that people never used airbrushes or tamyia or any of the other standard products really
I just use a car acrylic primer in a rattle can. I always wear a mask, goggles and gloves when spraying. There are no hobby stores with four hours of my home and rattle cans are illegal to ship in Australia. So car primer it has to be. Especially since I still can't afford an airbrush.
Have been building models for 30 years and using Mr. Hobby for more than 15+ years on all my model kits (cars, military, Gundam and now miniatures) no complaints. If I made a mistake and need to strip the paint, good 91% alcohol will do. Also, you can pre-diluted (with self leveling thinner)and it will last you for months. Just keep it away from the sun light. Mr. Hobby primer is a must have. Highly recommended!!!
just to repeat… This is lacquer, not enamel. And lacquer primers always perform the best. You can reduce it much more than 50% and you can use pretty much any lacquer thinner. Mr. leveling thinner is great… And 400 is just the size of the bottle… But you can use cheap hardware store lacquer thinner as well.
You will need a filter qualified for VOC's (volatile organic chemicals). The usual N95, HEPA, or airbrush booth only really take care of small particles. They're not sufficient for chemical filtering.
Mr Hobby paints are hands down the best, but man am I sensitive to the fumes. I have an extraction fan and I use a respirator but I spray in my study. If you are able to use these easily, you cannot go wrong.
Just a note: Mr Hobby paints are better described as lacquers, not enamels. I've used Mr. Hobby's Mr. Surfacer 1000 as a gray primer for over a decade now. I've used it as a primer over PVC (soft vinyl) models. It adheres to the vinyl very well, passing the scratch test. It also forms a barrier layer that prevents the outer layers of acrylic paints from becoming tacky from extended contact with the vinyl. I've learned to spray it from further away from the model, so it doesn't have a glossy finish. This gives the surface a little extra tooth for acrylics to.
@@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891 paint naming is a complete mess. lacquer in hobby contexts generally refers to paints with an acrylic binder carried in a volatile organic solvent (acetone and others). They set extremely quickly as the solvent evaporates. Enamel generally refers to paints with an alkyd binder (the oil in oil paint, but chemically modified to cure faster) carried in a slowly evaporating organic solvent (like white spirit). They will set as the solvent evaporates and can be moved/removed with more solvent, but they continue to cure and get tougher for hours to days like oil paints. Note that "enamel" technically refers to the hard smooth finish, so you'll see "acrylic enamels" and "epoxy enamels" though these are uncommon in hobby contexts.
@@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891 there isn't one really. "Enamel" describes pretty much any kind of resin used in the paint. Lacquer, acrylic, oil based and so on simply describe the type of solvent used in that specific enamel formulation. There are lacquer, oil and acrylic enamels and then further subsets as well such as water and alcohol acrylic enamels on top of that.
@@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891 I generally define lacquers as those paints that dry quickly as their solvent evaporates, and can be reactivated by applying the solvent again. Enamels are paints that take time to cure and harden through oxidation after their solvent evaporates, and that can take days or weeks. The plasticizers in some materials can interfere with enamel’s curing, which is why for instance, Testor’s enamel paints would forever stay tacky and soft when painted on vinyl model kits.
true, but it is a hecking lot easier to get some paper and put it out on the driveway and prime some minis with a rattlecan. i do see the advantages of using an airbrush, but i am well satisfied with rattlecans (except bright whites and beiges.)
@@MrMockigton If you live in a city apartment like me, you get a portable spraying booth, a filtered mask and hobby on without killing ourselves, too. And works for either spray or airbrush.
Enamel primer is totally new to me. Not sure i see the benefits of it yet. - Rubber-based airbrush primers (like Vallejos Polyurethane) are mainly for Metal Minis since rubber sticks better to metal surfaces. - Spray can Primers contain a low amount of a solvent named N-Butyl-Acetate and sometimes a small amount of Acetone. Both melts plastic just a liiiitle bit, which makes the black plastic particles (mixed into the solvent) melt into the grey plastic and essentially become one and the same piece as the grey plastic. I only use spray can primers on plastic for this reason. 1: Soak your plastic parts (or entire sprues) in water & dish soap for 24 Hours and then... 2: ...rinse it clean under Hot water; you can now drag a clean (de-greased) finger across the plastic and it should squeak loudly because it's so clean. 3: Let it dry fully (pref for 24H)... 4: ...then use a spray can primer. 5: Let the primer harden for 24H... 6: Win! The results are amazing. No joke; I can't scrape it off even with my fingernails. - Note: I've only "stress tested" GWs and Vallejos primers like this and they yield equally good results. I do this with all my models and terrain and so far never experienced primer coming off.
- I don't think Vince mentioned it in the vid, but any excess enamel/lacquer paint or thinner should not be dumped down your sink. Soke it up with paper towel and throw it in the trash, or if you will have a lot of thinner used for cleaner put it in a glass jar and you'll need to take it to hazardous waste disposal day in your area (or equivalent). Excess paint could also just be dumped back into your paint pot. - A lot of Gundam modelers will take one of these jars and dump it into a larger dropper bottle. Then pre-thin it so they don't have to mix it every time they prime. - A covid KN95 mask is not good enough for your lungs. They are great for dust protection when sanding and trimming plastic and resin. But for paint spraying you should have a respirator with filters for chemical fumes like Vince is wearing at the start. - Lacquer sprayed minis still smell for quite awhile, probably best to let them offgas for a day or so before painting.
Senesi Vince, I love you you know.. but I dunno if I wanna move to this product.. I prefer to use something less toxic maybe, ai don’t know. Love you anyways. 🤗 Keep going! 👍🏻👍🏻
I appreciate the knowledge, but short of using it from rattle can occasionally no amount of benefit would outway the grief my wife would give me at the 1st hint of an odor! Stynylrez was my go to until I started using Pro Acryl, which has been great exept their white primer has been tricky. My standard zenithal now is inks cut with AK Ultra Matt Varnish. Thanks Vince!
as a scale modeler/miniature painter i am so glad that you guys are all finding MR surfacer. It is actually a lacquer based primer and you can thin it out 100/150 primer to thinner.
@bricktop2938 I can find Mr surfacer in all types here in the US at any of my local hobby stores they. Besides GSI Creos is a Japanese company. Also most online stores or Amazon stores ship from us stores to us customers because of the regulations on volatile organic compounds in lacquer paints.
Two points: 1) Want to further stress to everyone that the mask to wear for this stuff is like what Vince is wearing, a heavy duty respirator with a P100 filter. A paper N95 isn't going to cut it for this type of chemical. 2) The white primer is just as incredible. In some ways it's even more impressive, considering how much other white primers absolutely suck.
I don't want to be a dick but unless you're going to wear and fit a respirator correctly, use the correct filters and seal test you may as well not bother. If you're not clean shaved, don't bother - you are absolutely breathing in whatever you're trying not to. It's overkill to begin with for airbrushing some enamel models so why waste your time and money. 20 years working in with and around respiratory equipment as an auto paint tech.
@@VinceVenturella Not having a dig, you're a legend mate, I know. Me being me just felt the need to point that out. Plenty won't know and are just throwing money away, they literally may as well not bother if that's the case. Top stuff as always.
About the clean shaven thing, I'm no expert but I was told to just do a positive pressure test to check if it's sealed and so long as you don't have a leak you're fine. I have a bit of facial hair but presumably it still works because when I do the positive pressure test there's no leak. Were you exaggerating or will I still breathe in chemicals/particles despite the positive pressure test?
Another tip for those who live in a dry environment: Mr. Hobby makes a retarder called "Mr. Retarder". The "leveling" thinner already has some of this in it, but I find a couple extra drops can be super useful for getting a smooth result on particularly dry days. Also, if you also use your airbrush with typical water based acrylics, make absolutely sure you have done a super deep clean of your airbrush before swapping to a lacquer based paint like this. I find that when the lacquer thinner contacts a dried up water based acrylic paint it gets extremely gunky and nearly ruined my airbrush. To alieviate this, I now have a second, cheaper, airbrush that I use exclusively for lacquers, and my nicer airbrush is exclusively for water based acrylics. Lastly, after cleaning my airbrush with generic lacquer thinner, I like to do one last quick clean with "Mr. Tool Cleaner". This is like an extra extra strong version of the Mr. Color thinner that helps get out the last remnants of paint that stubbornly stayed in my airbrush. Once I started using this, I significantly cut down on the number of times I had to dismantle and deep clean my airbrush.
Mr Color paints are foolproof magic. Base coating large models like KO boats is a snap BUT they don’t brush well (you need another type of thinner for that) and the toxicity is STRONG which makes it tough to do touch up work.
I use the rattle can version, but otherwise 100% agree. Of course, this means I'm obligated to prime those minis on a day with good weather, so there's trade-offs.
The Mr Hobby line of products was available at the first hobby shop that I worked for back in the 80s. Everybody who used those products swore by them. In general, they have good stuff. Still, I didn't see anything here that made me want to divert from my own current favorite primer - Stynylrez. I REALLY don't like having to move back and forth from water-based product to non-water-based products because of the need for extra airbrush cleaning needed between those products. Not to mention the added fumes. On top of tall of that the Mr Hobby Primer is pretty expensive. Stynylrez is about $.05ml. Mr Finishing Surfacer is $.30ml. That's a huge difference. I appreciate you sharing your experience and I will probably still give it a try at some point to see if it might be worth the expense.
Safety first. Lacquer paints can ruin your health. 1. You absolutely need a properly fitting respirator with cartridges rated for VOCs. A particulate filter like N95 is not adequate. 2. Find a video tutorial on properly fitting and donning the respirator. Always make sure your cartridges are installed correctly. 3. With a properly fitting and working respirator, you will not smell the paint. If you can smell the paint, stop immediately, check the cartridge installation, and adjust your respirator. If you continue to smell the paint then you must replace the cartridges. 4. The more ventilation, the better. That amazon/ebay spray booth is not adequate enough to evacuate your hobby room in any reasonable time frame. Open the windows at a minimum.
You can buy bulk containers of lacquer thinner for cleaning your airbrush. Save the Mr. Leveling Thinner for mixing your paints. Get some mixing bottles to store your pre-thinned lacquer paints. They never go bad and will always be ready to go.
I'm looking into using this but I don't exactly have the perfect setup, with a proper respirator would a room with a door open to the outside and a fan running be enough ventilation?
Whatever gets put through an airbrush I wouldn't even waste my money on anything but the Scale Modelling/gunpla brands. The miniature world is decades behind.
Mr Hobby 1500 is also available in a spray can over here in Scotland so should be available everywhere else too. Ideal for spraying outside if you don't have an indoor setup
Hi Vince. Coming from scale modelling I have been using Mr Hobby primers for some while - ever since I managed to peel a complete layer of Vallejo primer off a model in one sheet! Indeed, I still have big bottles of acrylic primers on my racks but just don't use them. After almost throwing my airbrushes out in frustration a couple of years ago I switched from water based paint to lacquer based paint after chatting with a professional modeller and the experience was like an epiphany. I still use water based paints for brushing onto minis but on the occasions that I need to airbrush them I expect frustration and clogging. The big issue, as you correctly emphasise, is that the proper filtration and extraction equipment is required. I am fortunate that my hobby shed has this. My only question is why you use another thinner for cleaning when you already have Mr Hobby 400?
Maestro, have you tried applying the primer with the brush? It would be interesting to know whether it works, despite being slower, for people who do not have the ventilation to do the airbrush. The lacquer cleaner is still toxic, but it is easier to get out of your house to clean some brushes, than to move the entire station out to pain.
@@VinceVenturella Thank you. I bought it, and then I realized that while I have a setting and a mask, I may want to start with a potentially least toxic introduction, so I will mix half and half, and apply that with an old brush and see how it fares. 2 weeks until delivery, so I have time to ponder. Thank you, Maestro.
Excellent video Vince and while I respect you and your abilities greatly - I will be staying far far far away from atomizing enamel anything in my house. Super cancer? No Thank You. I genuinely hope that every single person watching this video that decides to try out these products listens to all of your cautionary statements and warnings.
Mr Hobby 1500 is a lacquer paint and you can dilute it with the 400 more than 1:1, it's not fussy at all about the ratio. A very good alternative is the Mr Hobby Aqueous primer. It's similar to Tamiya (solvent based lacquer), which you can clean with water. Less toxic than true lacquer. Also comes in a rattle can (1500 as well) - a good alternative if you don't have airbrush.
I really like this stuff, but even with full respirator, airbrush booth venting, and an air purifier, the smell afterwards is devastating. My next round of priming will be taking the airbrush outside.
I've absolutely fallen in love with it. Given avg humidity is sitting around 75% locally this primer has instantly fixed all my primer woes. I already had a mask certified for VOCs (due to the 3d printer a few metres away from my airbrush), so I already have the right safety gear. And it's just a breeze. Even the white is relatively painless, which is shocking for white. Not that I prime a lot in white, but when 95% of the vehicle is off-white I'd rather start with white and work down (and then back up) over fight my way over black.
Sounds like cleaning it takes about the same time as listening to Lacquerhead, and that’s a point for it. On a slightly more serious note, this is something I might look into if I ever have a ventilated area not even attached to the house to do things like this in.
Using this, I just primed the entire Stormcast half of the Skaventide box in one sitting without dry tip, clogging, or any inconsistencies. I can't get over how easy it was. It went like a champ through a 0.4mm nozzle at 25psi. 11:10 ratio of thinner to primer. One thing to be aware of: the 1500 is super thin which really exposes any shortcomings in your model prep: mold lines, sprue craters, etc.
OMG YES, I've been searching for something that will get me the convenience of airbrush priming without the durability loss you get with acrylic primers. Living in NC the humidity kills rattle can primers. Im going to try both the rattle cans mentioned in the comments and this. This video is literally a life saver as I went back to Vallejo primer which has better durability but requires me to do a full airbrush clean after using or risk a major clog.
When I read the title I knew it had to be Mr Surfacer. The 400 on the Leveling Thinner is the size of the bottle (400ml in this case) The 1500 is the grit, like in sandpaper. 1500 is very smooth, so best used as final primer like in your video. If you sand your pieces down (vehicles or gunpla) the grittier stuff like Mr Surfacer 500 will work great as filler primer. This stuff is not only durable, it also sands down without tearing and creating a hard edge like many acrylic primers do.
Ok, a few things about the Mr Hobby/Mr Color line. Mr Color Leveling Thinner 400 describes the size of the container (400 ml). The product is just Mr Color Leveling Thinner…and you can buy it in 100, 250, or 400ml sizes. The primer itself is Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500. While Vince keeps calling it Mr Hobby 1500, that potentially describes a couple of things in the GSI/Gunze product line. See, Mr Hobby is sort of an umbrella brand there’s Mr Hobby Aqueous primers, Mr Hobby Acrysion primers, and lots of varieties of the product within that naming convention. So, the product Vince is using here is a lacquer (not enamel) surfacing primer - Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500 Black. You can also find Mr Surfacer. The difference between Mr Finishing Surfacer and Mr Surfacer is the ability to fill scuffs, scratches, and minor blemishes. The bigger the number, the smaller the filler material in the surfacer. 1500 is smaller filler, 500 is very thick filler. Mr Surfacer 500 is more like a liquid putty than a sprayable primer/surfacer. 1000 and 1200 are somewhere in between. For minis, starting with the 1500 is probably fine because there isn’t a lot of surface prep done like you might do on a car model or a plane or whatever. Just as a personal preference, I don’t use Mr Color Leveling Thinner with the Mr Finishing Surfacer if I’m hand brushing a piece because I find that the first layer of my paint beads up because the finish is so satin-y. I use Mr Color Thinner rather than the Leveling Thinner which gives a slightly less satin finish and the paint beads up less. Since Vince is spraying the zenithal over the black surface in the video, I think this likely reduces that as an issue.
I picked up the 400 leveler thinner long ago because of the scale modeler community, I use it with Tamiya 'acrylics' it's great stuff regardless of the actual primer you use. Cheers
Just adding something here as I just got some in myself and had a couple false starts running it through the airbrush - lower pressure is very important. Blasting it at 30-40psi like you can with normal polyurethane based primers will cause it to dry inside the airbrush immediately. After I cleaned that out with hardware store thinner and lowered the pressure down to the 12-15psi range it sprayed beautifully!
I'm in the UK and prime with zero issues using VA Black Primer. Good grip, paint flows and sticks to it without a glitch. Details are kept crisp to. I do dilute it 1:1 with Airbrish thinner with 3 drops of Flow Improver already primed in the airbrush. I use small batches and clean up after going through 5-10 minis. While cleaning the airbrush the previous layer is curing on the minis. I do about 3 layers of black and then a zenithal using either an Ivory or tanned VA primer. So a total of like 4-5 thinned primer layers. After painting I just use an auto shop satin lacquer and presto: hard solid paint shop for gaming
Hell yeah! I love it when you cover scale model products. Thank you for forwarding the information on safety, this stuff rules but it’s nasty. I believe the Mr Surfacer also has a very fine (1500 grit in this case) sediment inside it for filling in tiny scratches and such? I’m not sure how that part works. I was told I’m supposed to stir the absolute bajeezus out of it. How hard would it be to get you to build and paint a Gundam? You can get one for like $10-20 easily. :]
This has probably already been pointed out but just for clarity, this isn't an enamel primer, it's a lacquer. But the same safety precautions should be followed. You can also thin this down a lot more than you have been. General recommended ratio is anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 thinner:primer. I usually go 1.5:1, bang for buck.
I spent quite a lot of money on an airbrush (H&S Infinity cult of paint version), compressor (Iwata Smart jet plus handle tank compressor), and airbrush booth. It all sits rarely used because I have so much trouble with using acrylic paint through it. When the airbrush was delivered, the box was damaged, and the airbrush itself had been rattling around in the cardboard box. There wasn't any visible damage, but I have so many problems when using it that I think it has something wrong with it. I think I will try this Mr Hobby primer to see if I can actually get some use out of my airbrushing stuff. Cheers, Vince.
I'm working on getting a decent airbrushing setup going. Would definitely like to Mr. Hobby. I usually use Vallejo or Monument Hobbies. I've never really had an issue with them, as of yet.
One note about thinners, if you want a little more matte finish use Mr.Color Thinner not levelling one. And the number in this case 400 is just the bottle size in ml.
Funny enough, i live in Japan. Everyone just recommending vallejo primer. arylic pro ink titanium and such, which are, extremely expensive for me. I just go f it, i am gonna go with mr hobby and tamiya matte flat white, and both comes out very very much better than the mentioned 2. But nobody is mentioning anything at all.
Humidity probably doesn't matter as much, since evaporation of the solvent is only effected by how much evaporated solvent is in your air. This is a good video, but personally I just avoid spraying solvents, even if the results aren't as good. I still wear a respirator and use an airbrush booth.
Seeing this I would love to have you do a tutorial/review of AKA interactives two-part varnishes. Which are also incredibly toxic. They are supposed to be more durable and run through an airbrush.
The Race for Terra channel has been singing the praises of this stuff for several years. I still haven't made the leap but need to. Honestly, Stynylrez works well for me IF it's a plastic mini. It does stick to metal for sh**.
So i am a scale modeler first and and used to use enamel paints. One thing you have to be careful with when using enamels is they are oil based and dry/cure more slowly than acrylics. The big challenge with that is your wonderful paint job will crack if the primer isn’t fully cured because enamels shrink as they dry. I have found if i wash my models with. 50/50 mix of simple green and water, i dont have adhesion issues with acrylics
Oh I wonder how this compares to the AK Primer and Microfiller, it seems to be very similar, I use that since it's easy to get here. But would love to try this out, too. The AK black primer is very glossy.
The toxicity pulls it down alot. Personally I use Vallejo mecha primer and never had anything to complain about.If u do the quick clean in between refills and run toothbrush over the needle to prevent tip dry.
I don't have the ability to set up my room for toxic fumes, unfortunately. Still great information though. Might be worth filling the tank up and giving a mode a prime outside though.
Agreed Mr Color products are the best along with Tamiya paint these are Lacquer and have a place on your bench try out the surfacer like 500 it's awesome filler
Fwiw, I use the primer in the cans, since I can use it outside, and get less toxic issues (still wear a respirator). I prefer the mahogany, but the black is good too. I do think it’s a laquer not an enamel, but I could be wrong. Yes the cans are more expensive, but they give the same result, I don’t have to clean my airbrush, and being outside I get less cross contamination
I believe Hobby Lobby carries it. Also, I bet your basement stinks after using it. If you're using the airbrush hood that everybody else uses, it's not doing much filtering
I use a bit of the MR Hobby stuff, but i absolutely *hate* dealing with the fumes. I prefer to stick to water-based stuff wherever possible. It is bloody good though.
Its the smell from mr hobby stuff turns me off, I prefer Ak primer and AK thinner, but that saud great video Vince its always good to know of other products.
Vince did you see Mr Hobby has an aqueous primer? I haven’t tried the airbrush variety because the store didn’t have it, but I did buy a spray can. Supposed to be much less toxic.
Great video and i’m sure enamels are absolutely great for mini painting but honestly is diminishing returns for me over acrylic based on the risk of exposure with toxic chemicals. Just not worth it for me.
Thank you for repping good enough safety practices however that enamel primer requires a minimum of 24 hours to cure before you put paint on it due to off gassing of vocs. This can cause the acrylics to become brittle over time due to their nature.
I am not a good enough painter, and im to lazy to do all the extra work of enamel. I also dont do oil paint/washes for the same reason. I dont want the hassle of all the extra stuff needed. i totally get why Vince would use this stuff. but I wonder how many people are willing to go the extra mile for the improvements.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Indeed Mr Hobby products are much appreciated by scale or Gunpla modellers. I think (not 100% sure) that it is lacquer acrylics, not enamel. This type of product chemically etch into the surface, hence they are much more resilient than water based acrylic primers. This also make the m great if you scractch build or use miwed media, resin plastic, metal or whatever, you will have an even surface in the end. Note that Mr Hobby surfacers contain micro filler, and the lower the number the thicker they are. For example 500 grade can be used to fill some gaps, in that case brush application is more precise. 1500 grade is fine for priming. You get something like your GW chaos black spray can, including the toxicity.
I love the Mr Hobby Surfacer 1500 rattle cans. Black, white, gray and oxide red. For those without space to safely spray I really suggest trying out the rattle cans. I use em all year round here in Japan with perfect results every time.
Didn't know they come in rattle cans. I am going to have to try that! Thanks for the tip.
Agreed
Hi vince. Not a question but more just a remark. You've been in this business for so long and I have learned quite a bit from you. Especially the color theory videos which are among my favorites. Just wanted to say: keep up the good work!
We swear by the spray version of 1500 here in Japan because even from June through September you can still get a super smooth prime coat despite the ridiculous humidity.
That said I definitely leave them outside (in a box on the balcony) for at least half an hour before bringing them back in. Don’t mess with those fumes.
My friend here always has to avoid the rainy days with his Citadel primers, but Mr Surfacer is great, it just doesn't care what the weather is like.
Thank you for the feedback. What does the number refer to? I have seen 1500 like Vince used but as well some 1000.
@@ThePingouin2terit’s the grit, the higher the number the smoother the finish, but also the more satin.
Japan is hot and humid as hell. If you guys swear by its performance then that’s all the endorsement we need.
That's pretty good info mate, I have the same issue in Istanbul and nothing seems to stick due to humidity.
Hey Vince, love your videos.
Do you have a dedicated video on posture, arm position and related stuff?
There is probably not a universal way to paint, but I think there could be a great benefit for others to see someone who is painting a lot (and long hours) how he's doing it.
I'm asking, because last month I started painting longer sessions (some days 6-10 hours) and am starting to feel it. Part of the problem might be my hight (6'4).
Thanks for your great content.
Have a nice weekend!
Great idea. As a 66 year-old with minor, but nagging back issues, I really need some ideas on comfortable painting posture, seat to desk height and the like.
I don't, but sounds like a good video.
Vince - I’m glad to see you give Gunpla products some attention 🎉. Mr. Hobby lacquers really are the best primers. I think you’ll really love the Mr. Hobby GX Metal Color line 😊.
A couple interesting things:
- the “400” in Mr Hobby leveling thinner refers to the amount of lacquer thinner in the bottle 400ml
- “1500” in Mr Surface Finisher 1500 Black refers to the grit of the finish when dry, 1500 grit.
- for safety, it’s worth mentioning that the respirator filters need to be rated organic compounds (VOCs). I like 3M P100 60926 or 60923 filters.
I’ve been using this for my gunpla and scale models for years and it is an amazing primer and paint. I would also recommend eye protection. Also I believe it’s lacquer based and not enamel.
This +1
Was dropping in here to mention that the paper mask shown along side the respirator in the video is no good, but I see someone was already on top of it.
The company that produces Mr Hobby, GSI Creos, also makes incredible bang for buck airbrushes. The 0.3mm PS-289 is eighty bucks and keeps up with $200 airbrushes in my collection. A starter airbrush you’ll never outgrow.
I purchased their equivalent of the micron for a fraction of the price and its SO GOOD
@@laneawakeDanI got a ps771 as well! I love mine!
I've been spreading the good word of their airbrushes for years. I wholesale replaced all the badgers and iwatas a had and never looked back. Barbaros Rex sold me on them.
Only thing I found it can be hard finding spare parts and needles, they might share some parts with Iwata but not sure on that.
@@WilliamHatton0 not as good as a FLGS, but spraygunner seems to consistently stock parts.
For those considering trying this, a couple of things not mentioned in the video: lacquer thinner (and other aggressive solvents) will deteriorate the seals in lower end airbrushes-- make sure your airbrush has ptfe seals before attempting. Also, n95 masks and similar are not sufficient for lacquer thinner, please use a mask rated for organic vapors
*looks at filter* P95
…
Well fuck me in the lungs repeatedly for 3 years
Ah okay what mask you use friend?
@@janfranc7427 I just received a full face mask qui organic vapour filters. I should be fine for the future. Thank you for asking
@@janfranc7427 I think I have the same as Vince. I went to Home Depot and bought one which I think was graded for organic compounds.
Funnily enough, I bought it to clean a mess in my house. I did not want to deal with the odor, thus why it needed to filter organic compounds.
As a side note, it seems that I have found a new usage for it!
@@janfranc7427 I use a 3M cartridge mask (similar to the one Vince is wearing at the beginning of the video). You can get cartridges for particles similar to N95 or vapors or both. I usually use the 3M 60923 cartridges that protect against particles/dust and vapors, covers pretty much all the bases.
If you haven’t yet, for zenithal lights, try thinning the Tamiya flat white acrylic with lacquer thinner (especially leveling lacquer thinners). It takes the already great Tamiya flat white to an insane level of control with functionally no tip dry.
The Tamiya X-2 white as they have a few ranges. It's cheap and with its thinner it is great. Durable, great control. Andy Wardle (Cult of Paint) swears by.
I need to try this. I know Cult of Paint swears by it too.
I’ve been using the Mr Hobby Lacquer white for all of my white zenithal work now. It is the perfect white airbrush paint it sprays perfectly and you can thin it all the way down to nothing and still get a perfect spray! Tamiya xf white is still fantastic!
Is the lacquer thinner as toxic as the thinner Vince showed?
I will be trying this!
You also need to wear eye protection with these paints, they can seriously damage your eyes if you get it in there.
For anyone who, like me, comes from a background of using other solvent-based finishes (and likes saving money) who thinks, "Hey, the Mr. Hobby Thinner is just lacquer thinner - I can just use regular old lacquer thinner to dilute the primer!" The Mr. Hobby thinner has a different ratio of solvents than hardware store lacquer thinner, and will add unwanted texture to your primer coat due to melting the plastic until the solvent flashes off. The Mr Hobby stuff doesn't melt your plastic - don't make the mistake I did :) That said, this primer is unparalleled in quality when used as directed in this video.
Thank you for addressing MrHobby Primer. I became very interested in it after seeing it on Ninjon's channel. Toxicity is a concern for me, and it means I will likely avoid using it. However, I'm even more interested in Tamiya X-20A as a thinner for airbrushing. The almost instant drying effect looks spectacular in Sergio Calvo's videos. Are you thinning with Tamiya X-20A? Are you taking similar precautions due to its toxicity?
I appreciate the mask warnings but they aren't quite correct. Particulate masks (n95 etc) and hepa filters don't do much for the nasty volatiles in lacquer. You need a filter cartridge rated for organic vapours and as much fresh airflow as you can get.
Saturday morning chemical warfare with Vincey V!
Honestly, Tamiya, Mr Hobby and other scale modeling brands are so much better than miniature brands. I only use rattle can primer atm but I’m saving up for a better spray booth before I switch. Then I plan on using the tamiya flat white for zenithal pre shading
Have you tried the Mr Hobby Aqueous yet Vince? Acrylic primer from the same range, I've found it very good, better than any of the other equivalent acrylic primers, but I've never tried using the enamel range so I can't say how it compares.
bumping
I've used both. IMO the lacquer primer is a bit better, with coverage, finish etc. But the Aqueous is still pretty great and needs a lot less PPE to use. The Aqueous is my go to now, just for convenience and I have kids in the house so I don't want to risk exposing them to anything nasty.
Haven't tried it yet, but I will have to give it a shot!
Pretty sure it is lacquer based, and not enamel.
Laqcuer paint seems pretty nice in general.
I don't have the capacity to use lacquers though. Curse my living situation.
Can confirm. Definitely lacquer.
I'm in Malaysia and we are humid all year round. This primer, and all of the Mr. color line JUST WORK. Often I even use this black mr. surfacer as a semi-gloss black.
For resin and plastic i've been using the mr hobby for years as I come from the gunpla hobby, I do notice that metal miniatures and metal in general it doesnt really grip that well. Best I've found for metal is the tamiya spray cans "surface primer fine"
I use etch primer on metal miniatures, and it works really well.
Mr Hobby makes both resin and metal primers that stick perfectly to the intended material and are great for priming over as normal.
The metal primer comes in both a rattle can and a bottle for brush-on application. Both forms dry clear.
I’ve only seen the resin primer in a rattle can, and it dries grey.
3:51: As an FYI, that KN95 mask you show there briefly *_will not_* protect you from the organic solvent vapours created during airbrushing a solvent-based product. They're _only_ rated for particles.
Curious: What ratings etc. should we be looking for in a mask?
@@jukuloma I'm not sure if the colours are universal (Google it for your country just in case) but at least here, filters rated for it have a band in black (organic solvents only), yellow (acid gases & organic solvents), or brown (acid gases, organic solvents, and ammonia).
So, the respirator mask he wears at the start and shows later is an example of a suitable one, as the filters on it have a brown band. However, _all_ of the N# and P# masks, as well as pink filters, are _only_ rated for particulates.
I would also suggest getting mixing bottles. For Gunpla I have bottles and bottles of paint ready to go in their own premixed container.
Do you mean paint already diluted in bottles ? How long you can keep paint already diluted?
I just started using this stuff recently as well, and I really like it. One thing to add is that the cartridges on your respirator should be rated for organic vapors to work with solvent based paints. I run 3M 60921 P100 cartridges in mine.
Is an A2P3 filter enough?
@@JackRovat I don't think so. I don't see anything on it says it's rated for organic vapors.
It is rated for Organic gases, is there a difference with vapours?
I don't know enough about that type of filter to say. I would get a respirator with the correct cartridges installed to be on the safe side.
If you want an acrylic primer that applies smoothly unthinned and doesn't clog, I really recommend Molotow one4all. I can prime like 40 figures with it without ever cleaning the airbrush in between. It's also durable enough for handling the models, perhaps not as much as an enamel primer, but has the upside of not producing toxic fumes when sprayed
Does it work well with metals? I’m not concerned with resin or plastics really
@@MrGunnar177 I haven't tried it on metals, only resin and plastic. I would expect it to behave differently from polyurethane primers, since those form a gummy layer that can peel off. Molotow by contrast is pretty unflexible, i.e. if you spill one drop it cracks when it dries, but from my experience it has good grip on the surfaces I used it on. Don't know how easily it can be scratched off metal though, but for sure it won't peel.
By the way it's meant to be a refill for acrilyc markers from the same brand, so it will perform similar to those
It is also non toxic. Super safe for those of us who lick their brushes to a point
@@baglio88It adheres well to metal. I use it for priming cars for gaslands.
@@MrGunnar177 yes, works perfectly. I prime / undercoat my metal Infinity miniatures with Molotow.
I discovered Mr Hobby products when building gunpla. Started using their primers and clear coats on minis and it works like a charm. You get the same results from the rattle cans, too.
I was wondering about the rattle cans, so this is great news. Will be nice for batch painting.
@derekgarcia3069
Absolutely! Just make sure you go outside, or spray in a well-ventilated spot. As Vince said, the stuff is toxic.
If I recall correctly, organic solvents demyelinate neurons. It would certainly be best to use a fume hood. I am not sure the precise value of neurons in cash, but if you're going to use these things the fume hood would be money well spent. I'm a patron of yours, and I endorse using some of that Patreon money for the hood :). EDIT: you might get good results if you can get the proper filter for an airbrush booth...???
I can't get you a precise value of neurons either, but if you have to spend the last few years of your life in a memory care facility, that'll run you at least $6k/month or $360,000 over 5 years. So they're worth at LEAST that.
Yes. Seriously nasty.
As a possible alternative for people who might not want to use this, or do not have an airbrush, I get what looks like quite similar results with the rattle cans of Vallejo black.
They are much cheaper than Citadel's, and they come with two nozzles. I always use the one for lower flow. The normal one is like Citadel's, it is very easy to put too much paint. The slow flow one actually works more like the airbrush in the video.
I have decided to try this and see how it goes, but it will take 2 weeks to arrive, so...
Glad to see more wargame hobbyists catching up to the military modeling hobbyists like Night Shift
It’s been a long twenty years of catch up. I came from scale modeling so I was shocked to see when I came into the hobby that people never used airbrushes or tamyia or any of the other standard products really
I just use a car acrylic primer in a rattle can. I always wear a mask, goggles and gloves when spraying. There are no hobby stores with four hours of my home and rattle cans are illegal to ship in Australia. So car primer it has to be. Especially since I still can't afford an airbrush.
So glad you guys did listen and started using this primer, its just the best. And the 400 on the thinner bottle is just the ml
@@komma8203 It actually pertains to the filling potential. Thinner the higher.
Have been building models for 30 years and using Mr. Hobby for more than 15+ years on all my model kits (cars, military, Gundam and now miniatures) no complaints. If I made a mistake and need to strip the paint, good 91% alcohol will do. Also, you can pre-diluted (with self leveling thinner)and it will last you for months. Just keep it away from the sun light. Mr. Hobby primer is a must have. Highly recommended!!!
Do you paint your miniatures with mr hobby paints, or do you mean you use the primers and such only, and water based acrylics for the rest?
just to repeat… This is lacquer, not enamel. And lacquer primers always perform the best. You can reduce it much more than 50% and you can use pretty much any lacquer thinner. Mr. leveling thinner is great… And 400 is just the size of the bottle… But you can use cheap hardware store lacquer thinner as well.
You will need a filter qualified for VOC's (volatile organic chemicals). The usual N95, HEPA, or airbrush booth only really take care of small particles. They're not sufficient for chemical filtering.
Mr Hobby paints are hands down the best, but man am I sensitive to the fumes. I have an extraction fan and I use a respirator but I spray in my study. If you are able to use these easily, you cannot go wrong.
Just a note: Mr Hobby paints are better described as lacquers, not enamels.
I've used Mr. Hobby's Mr. Surfacer 1000 as a gray primer for over a decade now. I've used it as a primer over PVC (soft vinyl) models. It adheres to the vinyl very well, passing the scratch test. It also forms a barrier layer that prevents the outer layers of acrylic paints from becoming tacky from extended contact with the vinyl. I've learned to spray it from further away from the model, so it doesn't have a glossy finish. This gives the surface a little extra tooth for acrylics to.
Hmm what is exactly a difference between lacquer and enamel?
@@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891 paint naming is a complete mess. lacquer in hobby contexts generally refers to paints with an acrylic binder carried in a volatile organic solvent (acetone and others). They set extremely quickly as the solvent evaporates. Enamel generally refers to paints with an alkyd binder (the oil in oil paint, but chemically modified to cure faster) carried in a slowly evaporating organic solvent (like white spirit). They will set as the solvent evaporates and can be moved/removed with more solvent, but they continue to cure and get tougher for hours to days like oil paints. Note that "enamel" technically refers to the hard smooth finish, so you'll see "acrylic enamels" and "epoxy enamels" though these are uncommon in hobby contexts.
@@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891 there isn't one really. "Enamel" describes pretty much any kind of resin used in the paint. Lacquer, acrylic, oil based and so on simply describe the type of solvent used in that specific enamel formulation. There are lacquer, oil and acrylic enamels and then further subsets as well such as water and alcohol acrylic enamels on top of that.
@@marcinbaltazarsarnikowski5891 I generally define lacquers as those paints that dry quickly as their solvent evaporates, and can be reactivated by applying the solvent again. Enamels are paints that take time to cure and harden through oxidation after their solvent evaporates, and that can take days or weeks. The plasticizers in some materials can interfere with enamel’s curing, which is why for instance, Testor’s enamel paints would forever stay tacky and soft when painted on vinyl model kits.
Thah was very enlightening@@quondamreveries7258
All those precautions are still true for usual canned primers, like GW or Vallejo. Vaporized acetone and all...
true, but it is a hecking lot easier to get some paper and put it out on the driveway and prime some minis with a rattlecan. i do see the advantages of using an airbrush, but i am well satisfied with rattlecans (except bright whites and beiges.)
@@MrMockigton If you live in a city apartment like me, you get a portable spraying booth, a filtered mask and hobby on without killing ourselves, too. And works for either spray or airbrush.
Enamel primer is totally new to me. Not sure i see the benefits of it yet.
- Rubber-based airbrush primers (like Vallejos Polyurethane) are mainly for Metal Minis since rubber sticks better to metal surfaces.
- Spray can Primers contain a low amount of a solvent named N-Butyl-Acetate and sometimes a small amount of Acetone. Both melts plastic just a liiiitle bit, which makes the black plastic particles (mixed into the solvent) melt into the grey plastic and essentially become one and the same piece as the grey plastic. I only use spray can primers on plastic for this reason.
1: Soak your plastic parts (or entire sprues) in water & dish soap for 24 Hours and then...
2: ...rinse it clean under Hot water; you can now drag a clean (de-greased) finger across the plastic and it should squeak loudly because it's so clean.
3: Let it dry fully (pref for 24H)...
4: ...then use a spray can primer.
5: Let the primer harden for 24H...
6: Win! The results are amazing. No joke; I can't scrape it off even with my fingernails.
- Note: I've only "stress tested" GWs and Vallejos primers like this and they yield equally good results.
I do this with all my models and terrain and so far never experienced primer coming off.
- I don't think Vince mentioned it in the vid, but any excess enamel/lacquer paint or thinner should not be dumped down your sink. Soke it up with paper towel and throw it in the trash, or if you will have a lot of thinner used for cleaner put it in a glass jar and you'll need to take it to hazardous waste disposal day in your area (or equivalent). Excess paint could also just be dumped back into your paint pot.
- A lot of Gundam modelers will take one of these jars and dump it into a larger dropper bottle. Then pre-thin it so they don't have to mix it every time they prime.
- A covid KN95 mask is not good enough for your lungs. They are great for dust protection when sanding and trimming plastic and resin. But for paint spraying you should have a respirator with filters for chemical fumes like Vince is wearing at the start.
- Lacquer sprayed minis still smell for quite awhile, probably best to let them offgas for a day or so before painting.
So the paper towel in the trash, I don't need to take that to hazardous waste disposal right? Only if it's enough to put in a jar?
Senesi Vince, I love you you know.. but I dunno if I wanna move to this product.. I prefer to use something less toxic maybe, ai don’t know. Love you anyways. 🤗 Keep going! 👍🏻👍🏻
I understand
I appreciate the knowledge, but short of using it from rattle can occasionally no amount of benefit would outway the grief my wife would give me at the 1st hint of an odor! Stynylrez was my go to until I started using Pro Acryl, which has been great exept their white primer has been tricky. My standard zenithal now is inks cut with AK Ultra Matt Varnish. Thanks Vince!
as a scale modeler/miniature painter i am so glad that you guys are all finding MR surfacer. It is actually a lacquer based primer and you can thin it out 100/150 primer to thinner.
I'm not. Supplies are patchy enough in the UK as it is 😅
@bricktop2938 I can find Mr surfacer in all types here in the US at any of my local hobby stores they. Besides GSI Creos is a Japanese company. Also most online stores or Amazon stores ship from us stores to us customers because of the regulations on volatile organic compounds in lacquer paints.
Two points:
1) Want to further stress to everyone that the mask to wear for this stuff is like what Vince is wearing, a heavy duty respirator with a P100 filter. A paper N95 isn't going to cut it for this type of chemical.
2) The white primer is just as incredible. In some ways it's even more impressive, considering how much other white primers absolutely suck.
I don't want to be a dick but unless you're going to wear and fit a respirator correctly, use the correct filters and seal test you may as well not bother. If you're not clean shaved, don't bother - you are absolutely breathing in whatever you're trying not to.
It's overkill to begin with for airbrushing some enamel models so why waste your time and money.
20 years working in with and around respiratory equipment as an auto paint tech.
Totally fair, I wasn't wearing it properly for the joke with the video of course, because it was a joke for the video. :)
@@VinceVenturella Not having a dig, you're a legend mate, I know. Me being me just felt the need to point that out.
Plenty won't know and are just throwing money away, they literally may as well not bother if that's the case.
Top stuff as always.
About the clean shaven thing, I'm no expert but I was told to just do a positive pressure test to check if it's sealed and so long as you don't have a leak you're fine. I have a bit of facial hair but presumably it still works because when I do the positive pressure test there's no leak. Were you exaggerating or will I still breathe in chemicals/particles despite the positive pressure test?
MR. Hobby is a Laqcuer paint.
Another tip for those who live in a dry environment: Mr. Hobby makes a retarder called "Mr. Retarder". The "leveling" thinner already has some of this in it, but I find a couple extra drops can be super useful for getting a smooth result on particularly dry days.
Also, if you also use your airbrush with typical water based acrylics, make absolutely sure you have done a super deep clean of your airbrush before swapping to a lacquer based paint like this. I find that when the lacquer thinner contacts a dried up water based acrylic paint it gets extremely gunky and nearly ruined my airbrush. To alieviate this, I now have a second, cheaper, airbrush that I use exclusively for lacquers, and my nicer airbrush is exclusively for water based acrylics.
Lastly, after cleaning my airbrush with generic lacquer thinner, I like to do one last quick clean with "Mr. Tool Cleaner". This is like an extra extra strong version of the Mr. Color thinner that helps get out the last remnants of paint that stubbornly stayed in my airbrush. Once I started using this, I significantly cut down on the number of times I had to dismantle and deep clean my airbrush.
what airbrush booth do you have? i made a cheap thing out of plywood with a 100cfm fan sucking out the back, hope it's enough for fumes
One of the fold up ones with a Hepa filter.
Mr Color paints are foolproof magic. Base coating large models like KO boats is a snap BUT they don’t brush well (you need another type of thinner for that) and the toxicity is STRONG which makes it tough to do touch up work.
I use the rattle can version, but otherwise 100% agree. Of course, this means I'm obligated to prime those minis on a day with good weather, so there's trade-offs.
The Mr Hobby line of products was available at the first hobby shop that I worked for back in the 80s. Everybody who used those products swore by them. In general, they have good stuff. Still, I didn't see anything here that made me want to divert from my own current favorite primer - Stynylrez. I REALLY don't like having to move back and forth from water-based product to non-water-based products because of the need for extra airbrush cleaning needed between those products. Not to mention the added fumes. On top of tall of that the Mr Hobby Primer is pretty expensive. Stynylrez is about $.05ml. Mr Finishing Surfacer is $.30ml. That's a huge difference. I appreciate you sharing your experience and I will probably still give it a try at some point to see if it might be worth the expense.
For anyone without an airbrush, The Mr Hobby Surfacer spray cans also produce excellent results
Best lacquer primer I've used hands down on plastic minis ... it's 'hot' so eats into the surface well.
Safety first. Lacquer paints can ruin your health.
1. You absolutely need a properly fitting respirator with cartridges rated for VOCs. A particulate filter like N95 is not adequate.
2. Find a video tutorial on properly fitting and donning the respirator. Always make sure your cartridges are installed correctly.
3. With a properly fitting and working respirator, you will not smell the paint. If you can smell the paint, stop immediately, check the cartridge installation, and adjust your respirator. If you continue to smell the paint then you must replace the cartridges.
4. The more ventilation, the better. That amazon/ebay spray booth is not adequate enough to evacuate your hobby room in any reasonable time frame. Open the windows at a minimum.
You can buy bulk containers of lacquer thinner for cleaning your airbrush. Save the Mr. Leveling Thinner for mixing your paints. Get some mixing bottles to store your pre-thinned lacquer paints. They never go bad and will always be ready to go.
I'm looking into using this but I don't exactly have the perfect setup, with a proper respirator would a room with a door open to the outside and a fan running be enough ventilation?
Whatever gets put through an airbrush I wouldn't even waste my money on anything but the Scale Modelling/gunpla brands. The miniature world is decades behind.
Mr Hobby 1500 is also available in a spray can over here in Scotland so should be available everywhere else too. Ideal for spraying outside if you don't have an indoor setup
Vince wearing mask - "Mumbled voice"
Me - "Bless the Omnissiah!"
Hi Vince. Coming from scale modelling I have been using Mr Hobby primers for some while - ever since I managed to peel a complete layer of Vallejo primer off a model in one sheet! Indeed, I still have big bottles of acrylic primers on my racks but just don't use them. After almost throwing my airbrushes out in frustration a couple of years ago I switched from water based paint to lacquer based paint after chatting with a professional modeller and the experience was like an epiphany. I still use water based paints for brushing onto minis but on the occasions that I need to airbrush them I expect frustration and clogging. The big issue, as you correctly emphasise, is that the proper filtration and extraction equipment is required. I am fortunate that my hobby shed has this. My only question is why you use another thinner for cleaning when you already have Mr Hobby 400?
I didn't find the 400 cleaned as effectively.
Maestro, have you tried applying the primer with the brush? It would be interesting to know whether it works, despite being slower, for people who do not have the ventilation to do the airbrush. The lacquer cleaner is still toxic, but it is easier to get out of your house to clean some brushes, than to move the entire station out to pain.
Yep, you can do it, it's still a good idea to do the leveling thinner.
@@VinceVenturella Thank you. I bought it, and then I realized that while I have a setting and a mask, I may want to start with a potentially least toxic introduction, so I will mix half and half, and apply that with an old brush and see how it fares.
2 weeks until delivery, so I have time to ponder.
Thank you, Maestro.
Excellent video Vince and while I respect you and your abilities greatly - I will be staying far far far away from atomizing enamel anything in my house. Super cancer? No Thank You. I genuinely hope that every single person watching this video that decides to try out these products listens to all of your cautionary statements and warnings.
Mr Hobby 1500 is a lacquer paint and you can dilute it with the 400 more than 1:1, it's not fussy at all about the ratio.
A very good alternative is the Mr Hobby Aqueous primer. It's similar to Tamiya (solvent based lacquer), which you can clean with water. Less toxic than true lacquer. Also comes in a rattle can (1500 as well) - a good alternative if you don't have airbrush.
I really like this stuff, but even with full respirator, airbrush booth venting, and an air purifier, the smell afterwards is devastating. My next round of priming will be taking the airbrush outside.
I've absolutely fallen in love with it. Given avg humidity is sitting around 75% locally this primer has instantly fixed all my primer woes.
I already had a mask certified for VOCs (due to the 3d printer a few metres away from my airbrush), so I already have the right safety gear. And it's just a breeze. Even the white is relatively painless, which is shocking for white.
Not that I prime a lot in white, but when 95% of the vehicle is off-white I'd rather start with white and work down (and then back up) over fight my way over black.
Sounds like cleaning it takes about the same time as listening to Lacquerhead, and that’s a point for it.
On a slightly more serious note, this is something I might look into if I ever have a ventilated area not even attached to the house to do things like this in.
Using this, I just primed the entire Stormcast half of the Skaventide box in one sitting without dry tip, clogging, or any inconsistencies. I can't get over how easy it was. It went like a champ through a 0.4mm nozzle at 25psi. 11:10 ratio of thinner to primer. One thing to be aware of: the 1500 is super thin which really exposes any shortcomings in your model prep: mold lines, sprue craters, etc.
OMG YES, I've been searching for something that will get me the convenience of airbrush priming without the durability loss you get with acrylic primers. Living in NC the humidity kills rattle can primers. Im going to try both the rattle cans mentioned in the comments and this. This video is literally a life saver as I went back to Vallejo primer which has better durability but requires me to do a full airbrush clean after using or risk a major clog.
When I read the title I knew it had to be Mr Surfacer.
The 400 on the Leveling Thinner is the size of the bottle (400ml in this case)
The 1500 is the grit, like in sandpaper. 1500 is very smooth, so best used as final primer like in your video.
If you sand your pieces down (vehicles or gunpla) the grittier stuff like Mr Surfacer 500 will work great as filler primer. This stuff is not only durable, it also sands down without tearing and creating a hard edge like many acrylic primers do.
Ok, a few things about the Mr Hobby/Mr Color line. Mr Color Leveling Thinner 400 describes the size of the container (400 ml). The product is just Mr Color Leveling Thinner…and you can buy it in 100, 250, or 400ml sizes. The primer itself is Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500. While Vince keeps calling it Mr Hobby 1500, that potentially describes a couple of things in the GSI/Gunze product line. See, Mr Hobby is sort of an umbrella brand there’s Mr Hobby Aqueous primers, Mr Hobby Acrysion primers, and lots of varieties of the product within that naming convention. So, the product Vince is using here is a lacquer (not enamel) surfacing primer - Mr Finishing Surfacer 1500 Black. You can also find Mr Surfacer. The difference between Mr Finishing Surfacer and Mr Surfacer is the ability to fill scuffs, scratches, and minor blemishes. The bigger the number, the smaller the filler material in the surfacer. 1500 is smaller filler, 500 is very thick filler. Mr Surfacer 500 is more like a liquid putty than a sprayable primer/surfacer. 1000 and 1200 are somewhere in between. For minis, starting with the 1500 is probably fine because there isn’t a lot of surface prep done like you might do on a car model or a plane or whatever.
Just as a personal preference, I don’t use Mr Color Leveling Thinner with the Mr Finishing Surfacer if I’m hand brushing a piece because I find that the first layer of my paint beads up because the finish is so satin-y. I use Mr Color Thinner rather than the Leveling Thinner which gives a slightly less satin finish and the paint beads up less. Since Vince is spraying the zenithal over the black surface in the video, I think this likely reduces that as an issue.
I picked up the 400 leveler thinner long ago because of the scale modeler community, I use it with Tamiya 'acrylics' it's great stuff regardless of the actual primer you use. Cheers
Just adding something here as I just got some in myself and had a couple false starts running it through the airbrush - lower pressure is very important. Blasting it at 30-40psi like you can with normal polyurethane based primers will cause it to dry inside the airbrush immediately. After I cleaned that out with hardware store thinner and lowered the pressure down to the 12-15psi range it sprayed beautifully!
I'm in the UK and prime with zero issues using VA Black Primer. Good grip, paint flows and sticks to it without a glitch. Details are kept crisp to. I do dilute it 1:1 with Airbrish thinner with 3 drops of Flow Improver already primed in the airbrush. I use small batches and clean up after going through 5-10 minis. While cleaning the airbrush the previous layer is curing on the minis. I do about 3 layers of black and then a zenithal using either an Ivory or tanned VA primer. So a total of like 4-5 thinned primer layers. After painting I just use an auto shop satin lacquer and presto: hard solid paint shop for gaming
Hell yeah! I love it when you cover scale model products. Thank you for forwarding the information on safety, this stuff rules but it’s nasty.
I believe the Mr Surfacer also has a very fine (1500 grit in this case) sediment inside it for filling in tiny scratches and such? I’m not sure how that part works. I was told I’m supposed to stir the absolute bajeezus out of it.
How hard would it be to get you to build and paint a Gundam? You can get one for like $10-20 easily. :]
This has probably already been pointed out but just for clarity, this isn't an enamel primer, it's a lacquer. But the same safety precautions should be followed.
You can also thin this down a lot more than you have been. General recommended ratio is anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 thinner:primer. I usually go 1.5:1, bang for buck.
I spent quite a lot of money on an airbrush (H&S Infinity cult of paint version), compressor (Iwata Smart jet plus handle tank compressor), and airbrush booth. It all sits rarely used because I have so much trouble with using acrylic paint through it. When the airbrush was delivered, the box was damaged, and the airbrush itself had been rattling around in the cardboard box. There wasn't any visible damage, but I have so many problems when using it that I think it has something wrong with it.
I think I will try this Mr Hobby primer to see if I can actually get some use out of my airbrushing stuff. Cheers, Vince.
I'm working on getting a decent airbrushing setup going. Would definitely like to Mr. Hobby. I usually use Vallejo or Monument Hobbies. I've never really had an issue with them, as of yet.
One note about thinners, if you want a little more matte finish use Mr.Color Thinner not levelling one. And the number in this case 400 is just the bottle size in ml.
Funny enough, i live in Japan. Everyone just recommending vallejo primer. arylic pro ink titanium and such, which are, extremely expensive for me. I just go f it, i am gonna go with mr hobby and tamiya matte flat white, and both comes out very very much better than the mentioned 2. But nobody is mentioning anything at all.
Humidity probably doesn't matter as much, since evaporation of the solvent is only effected by how much evaporated solvent is in your air.
This is a good video, but personally I just avoid spraying solvents, even if the results aren't as good.
I still wear a respirator and use an airbrush booth.
Seeing this I would love to have you do a tutorial/review of AKA interactives two-part varnishes. Which are also incredibly toxic. They are supposed to be more durable and run through an airbrush.
The Race for Terra channel has been singing the praises of this stuff for several years. I still haven't made the leap but need to. Honestly, Stynylrez works well for me IF it's a plastic mini. It does stick to metal for sh**.
Hobby Lobby in the U.S carries this and other MrHobby stuff. I prefer their plastic cement over Tamiya and the Matt Varnish is great too.
So i am a scale modeler first and and used to use enamel paints. One thing you have to be careful with when using enamels is they are oil based and dry/cure more slowly than acrylics. The big challenge with that is your wonderful paint job will crack if the primer isn’t fully cured because enamels shrink as they dry. I have found if i wash my models with. 50/50 mix of simple green and water, i dont have adhesion issues with acrylics
Oh I wonder how this compares to the AK Primer and Microfiller, it seems to be very similar, I use that since it's easy to get here. But would love to try this out, too. The AK black primer is very glossy.
The toxicity pulls it down alot. Personally I use Vallejo mecha primer and never had anything to complain about.If u do the quick clean in between refills and run toothbrush over the needle to prevent tip dry.
When I lived in Tokyo in the early 2000's, Mr Hobby Surfacer in rattle cans was all I could reliably get.
I think cracking open a new pot of Mr hobby surfacer is my favourite smell - but definitely don't inhale deep. Mr hobby is a great brand.
I don't have the ability to set up my room for toxic fumes, unfortunately. Still great information though. Might be worth filling the tank up and giving a mode a prime outside though.
Agreed Mr Color products are the best along with Tamiya paint these are Lacquer and have a place on your bench try out the surfacer like 500 it's awesome filler
Fwiw, I use the primer in the cans, since I can use it outside, and get less toxic issues (still wear a respirator). I prefer the mahogany, but the black is good too. I do think it’s a laquer not an enamel, but I could be wrong.
Yes the cans are more expensive, but they give the same result, I don’t have to clean my airbrush, and being outside I get less cross contamination
I believe Hobby Lobby carries it. Also, I bet your basement stinks after using it. If you're using the airbrush hood that everybody else uses, it's not doing much filtering
Eeeeh I just kinda use more Mr. Hobby 400 to clean my airbrush afterwards, no real problems.
I use a bit of the MR Hobby stuff, but i absolutely *hate* dealing with the fumes. I prefer to stick to water-based stuff wherever possible. It is bloody good though.
Its the smell from mr hobby stuff turns me off, I prefer Ak primer and AK thinner, but that saud great video Vince its always good to know of other products.
Vince did you see Mr Hobby has an aqueous primer? I haven’t tried the airbrush variety because the store didn’t have it, but I did buy a spray can. Supposed to be much less toxic.
Great video and i’m sure enamels are absolutely great for mini painting but honestly is diminishing returns for me over acrylic based on the risk of exposure with toxic chemicals. Just not worth it for me.
Thank you for repping good enough safety practices however that enamel primer requires a minimum of 24 hours to cure before you put paint on it due to off gassing of vocs. This can cause the acrylics to become brittle over time due to their nature.
You don't have to use the leveling thinner. The Mr Hobby rapid thinner and regular medium dry thinner work just as good..
Mr Hobby now do a water based version of there surfacers......probably doesn't have the same bite as the lacquers but way less toxic
When I saw the Mr. Hobby bottle I immediately had Night Shift (Scale model channel) talking in my head
Google tells me they have a specific metal primer. Anyone have any opinions on it? Or applying this primer with a normal brush instead of an airbrush?
NIce video, but for me.. no thanks, too much toxic and fumes. Keep up the good work Vince.. cant wait too see the rat ogres painted up.
I am not a good enough painter, and im to lazy to do all the extra work of enamel. I also dont do oil paint/washes for the same reason. I dont want the hassle of all the extra stuff needed. i totally get why Vince would use this stuff. but I wonder how many people are willing to go the extra mile for the improvements.