What would you do in Rattlesnake Canyon?
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2023
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#1 -- "Rattlesnake Canyon" -- 1:18 -- Two people find themselves in a totally hopeless situation. As the story unfolds, ask yourself… what would you do?
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#hiking #missing #mrballen
Imagine going into a desert for a day and taking less water with you then you would drink on any other normal day. It's some kind of anti-survival instinct.
They brought 1.25 litres for both of them and used half of it to cook hot dogs. So they basically had a large cup of water for both of them
We call that darwinism
Back in the 90’s no one really thought twice about only drinking a one or two cups of water per day. It was the norm back then to only really drink water when you feel thirsty. People were always dehydrated before the year 2000.
@TheGhjgjgjgjgjg gotta be plum dumb. Js. First off u dnt need water to cook hot dogs. They taste better NOT cooked in water...
@@amandatyler4324im confused wheb u say that cuz i clearly remember the 8 glasses of water campaign going on then. I lived in arizona and they always talked about drinking water
I personally would've turned around the very moment I'd lost the path marked with the rock piles. Why people aimlessly walk for hours and carry maps they can't read is beyond me.
Exactly. It never crossed their minds to turn around and walk in the other direction?
They were already delirious from water deprivation and exhaustion, probably. Its the only way you could really explain their odd, illogical behavior.
@@MikadoYuma It was earlier.
These guys were obviously very stupid
These canyon lands are very dangerous places. You should not enter them if you're not fully prepared. Not bringing enough water was their first and worst mistake. Venturing into a wilderness and not knowing how to read a topographical map was a second mistake. Wandering around aimlessly without a clue where you're heading is a third mistake (better to have just stayed put and conserve all your energy). Murdering your "best" friend... I don't buy it.... but if it was really a mercy killing, still makes no sense. This was a fourth mistake.
For everyone who genuinely dont know this, if you find your self in this position, always time how long it takes to get where your going, if it takes longer to get back than it did to get there, stop, mark where your to, walk maybe 10 more mins to get your bearings and head back to your original camp spot, stop and chose another path, do this till you find your way out, always mark where you were 💯
Soooo much easier said than done.
Psychologically you just keep thinking:
"Wow I really screwed up. I'm sure I'm almost out of this mess though. I will be so glad when I am out! I never should have made such a series of stupid mistakes. But I will figure this out VERY SOON and be on the right path out! Just keep going... It CAN'T be much further. I should have turned back hours ago. But I can't turn back now because I've come so far. I will see something up ahead that will lead me out... What a dummy I was! But there must be something ahead because I can't possibly go all that way back and start over!"
so in this situation they ended up being about 15 mins from where they wanted to be. So if the took your advise they would have stopped 5 mins from were they wanted to be and then turned around and headed in the wrong direction
@@SilverMe2004I'm pretty sure he was using 10 mins as an example. If it took them 15 mins, then they should follow his advice but walk in 15 minute increments.
@@skylorhamilton9151 exactly lol it was an example obviously, what I meant was time your time in and time out and go by that, lol it was a quick comment lol appreciate the clarification 💯
So we walk 20 minutes in the Appalachian Mountains and start walking back another 20 minutes. Now you've walked 40 minutes. What are the odds you are going to walk in a straight line?
I’m from Arizona. I can’t even leave my house without bringing a gallon of water even if I’m working in the AC for the day. How these guys brought 3 small bottles of water to stay overnight in the desert is a literal death wish.
Same
🏜️ Right, always take more than you think you need.
Yes I live in Arizona too and ya its absolutely foolish to ignore the advice of park rangers and hydration advisory. You're literally asking for trouble if not certain death by the end of the week.
That's what they get for being frugal, harsh truth.
Exactly! Im from Arizona too. You always bring more water than you need when going out. It's so easy to get turn around in the desert and get lost.
The weirdest thing about this story is deciding to use part of your already inadequate water supply to boil hot dogs.
They could have cooked them on sticks LIKE EXPERIENCED CAMPERS
@@wms72 EXACTLY
Yea I was actually stunned at that, I never would have even considered using water for something as simple as hotdogs outdoors REGARDLESS of the circumstance.
@@wms72would have tasted better too
another thing : how is it possible that after walking for hours & reaching that cactus area but then going back to campsite, they were just 15 min away from the car?
I live in and grew up in New Mexico, the second I heard how much water they brought my heart sank. Please, if you don't have experience hiking in the terrain that you are camping in, listen to the park rangers advice.
The fact that they boiled hot dogs with some of their water shows they had zero wilderness experience. Just doesn't even make sense.
But ... water is heavy ! Would be easier not to bring any on the hike !
I felt the same. I live and have grown up in southern Arizona. People not familiar with the desert don't realize how dry it can be.
i feel you. i live in arizona and i am drinking water constantly even when i’m indoors most of the day, because dehydration can really sneak up on you if you’re not careful.
Honestly even what the ranger suggested is the bare minimum. The heat there is a furnace. How you would walk like that with just about no water, then use some for salty hot dogs? Did they bring beer? I can’t imagine making these kinds of choices. Boston is real different from the dessert.
A tip for hikers: while you are on a hike, turn around and look behind you intermittently. That way you will have an idea of what the trail should look like on your way back. Taking pictures would help if you have your smartphone. You don’t need reception to save photos.
This is really good advice. I'm from Britain and there aren't really any wildly huge trails or national parks. Not like in America anyway. Point is I'd of never considered this, having said that I'd also never considered trekking through the desert or any totally unfamiliar environment while I'm highly unprepared 🤣
But if on the off chance I am in that situation, I'll be sure to remember this, cheers bro
I have to do this now, especially because a) I already know my sense of orientation in space is pretty sub-normal (I regularly got lost in my square high school building) and b) not long ago I was in the woods on a paved road and got out of the car and walked maybe one minute away to get through some trees to watch the sunset. I was just far enough away that I didn't have line of sight to my car .. and I got completely lost for over an hour. I couldn't believe how an entire road and all clues about the path I'd walked from the car could simply vanish so quickly.
It will be unique for each person depending on their constitution, but I can attest to the emotional factor compounding the number of mistakes that can pile up so rapidly while you are still in denial ("no, no, no, surely the car's just over here....") + wrestling with the shame/embarrassment of having gotten lost so stupidly + fending off thoughts of what might happen if you don't find your way ... before stopping and making more level-headed, rational, useful decisions.
Now when I go on a hike I regularly look back to get a sense of what the return journey will look like, and if I step away from a trail even a few paces, I take a picture with my phone to try to do exactly what you described.
@@chriskaprysyou sound just as bad with directions and getting lost as I am. I've been in similar situations as you with only being a couple steps away from your car. It's always so embarrassing and you're left feeling stupid as hell.
Knowing how bad I am for getting lost, I'll likely never go on some great big hike, at least not alone
@@xXTwigManXx Yeah, I'm fairly dependant on my phone's GPS for navigation, especially around locations I haven't memorised by landmarks. That said, like anything with the brain, there are exercises which help. Some days I'll set myself the goal of, every time I'm about to pull my phone out of my pocket, try to guess which way North is before I turn on the screen, and/or if I'm driving, every time I take a turn, try to tell myself which direction I'll be heading in. The latter I have to do to a lesser degree because it can make me nauseous while driving, but practise does help.
I also just recently found out about a place in the brain called the retrosplenial complex (RSC) which, when it's damaged or misfiring, produces symptoms similar to what I experience when trying to navigate. Just in case that's an interesting bread crumb for you.
This is good advice. Things always look different when travelling in the opposite direct to the one you came in on.
Went on a short hike in Arizona at the sand dunes. It was 110 degrees and we had two liters of water. A park ranger ripped up as we were walking in and gave us more water. We made it like a quarter mile and turned back because we were running out of water. It's like a convection oven out there
Arizona and Vegas r so hot it was like 118 in Vegas when I was out for like 9-10 hrs performing we had 3 bags full of water then Arizona I think was only 113 at night one night at a bar n I could feel the heat from the toliots 😅
one thing mrballen left out was the one who survived was released from the hospital an hour after he was checked in... not really the body of someone who was dehydrated and sunstroked for 4-5 days as he claimed...also their second campsite (the one they were discovered at) was only 1 mile away from the ranger station on foot and was clearly visible from the ridge they claim to have climbed up. Also the entirety of the national park they were lost at was only 186 km2 which is only about 3 manhattans... for 2 adult men it can be traversed across in 4 hours tops if they're slow no reason they couldn't have done that the second they realized they were lost....
@debodatta7398 just curious how you know this?
Once you said they used their drinking water to boil hot dogs, I knew this story wouldn’t end well.
Who would use any water to cook hotdogs in a desert😅
@@ashenmoonclashyou’re probably not allowed to use fires. They likely brought a small propane cooker with them, I know in Colorado ((what essentially is a dessert)) we aren’t allowed to use fires.
Boiling hotdogs is the only way to cook em.
The question was not why did they boil the hot dogs that way but why they waste their water in the desert. Then again, I am not surprised. If two people could be that stupid, it's no wonder you couldn't understand the question.
@@user-tp9hk8ox8s what’s with the hostility mate, there’s literally no reason to imply these comments are stupid, ya didn’t have to call anyone stupid in this comment section, we all agree they were dumb asf to not bring water, but like… “who would use any water to cook hotdogs in a desert” is implying it’s weird to cook hotdogs in water while in a desert, when in reality it’s normal for camping, fires are likely not allowed because of the dry climate and bush around the desert, they likely had a small propane tank and had to boil water to cook things.
Yeah, why wouldn't you cook them over a campfire like s normal person.
As someone from the desert... never lowball how much water you need. I bring 80oz of water with me just to go to work (for reference, these guys brought 48oz) And i get free water at work, so it's just for my commute (which is walking/riding the bus). I basically never end up drinking all the water, but there's been times where someone else was getting sick from the heat and not having enough water, and I was able to give them some. Besides, I walk with a cane because I have a hip deformity, and I have to go through an area of unstable ground with sinkholes, so there's always a chance one opens under my feet or I fall in, so I might get stranded and need it myself, and in the summer, it hits over 110° every day for a couple months. So it's better safe than risking it.
Better to have more than enough than not enough.
This. I drive, and when it hits that mark here in the western Colorado desert, you can wind up dehydrated in minutes. I forgot my water once and passed out doing yard work in under an hour. Hypovolemia due to dehydration. If my toddler hadn't found me, I'd have died. Now I don't leave my house for more than 5 minutes without at least a quart.
This is our new reality here in Central Texas. Over 40 days of triple digit heat was torture. I’m looking for cooler climates in order to eventually move. 😢
Same. Even in town I carry at least 2-3 gallons with me at all times, not counting what is i my cooler, that is usually in my car, and also has drinks. But I've lived out in the high desert, and I know that if you have water, you have time, and with time, you can solve most problems.
My husband does the same thing, and we don’t even live in the desert. But it gets in the 100s regularly in the summer, and you never know what emergency may happen.
The fact that their second campsite was a 15-20 min walk to their car is eerie to think that both of them had that level of a situation
something i do want to point out is, often the way back on a hike will look unfamiliar even if it's the same trail. because, well, you're facing the opposite direction and so everything, from the scenery to the turns, are different. make sure you look behind you at the opposite direction to make sure.
It is information like this that can save lives.
@@Dharmareneecant you just use a compass like a sane human being?
@@obvioustrash7833 a compass isn't much help if ur forced to follow trails that twist and turn a lot. it can even be misleading since a trail that eventually ends up west of ur position, for example, may start off with a long section going east and u could be mislead into thinking ur going east.
its way more important to try and maintain spacial awareness and to try and recognize terrain on ur way back to make sure ur on the same trial
@@fruitygranulizer540 O for sure, but I feel like a compass can definitely help to know which direction you went and should go roughly
The “I killed and buried my best friend today” was heavy. Geez. What a sad ending when safety was just around the corner.
I feel bad for those young men. To go through that and find out the next day you are rescued and you are 15 minutes from your car the entire time has to be driving that man insane.
Indeed, he must have kicked himself when he learned that.
Well, he did murder the other dude and got away scot free, so the plan worked.
Although John doesn't say it in this video, they were obviously friends from their days on the little school bus, where they licked the windows and drooled on themselves and talked about how unfair it was that Corky wasn't allowed to drive in "Life Goes On".
Yep, they was morons for sure!
They generally seemed a bit dim and totally unprepared tbh I'm not surprised how this ended considering how they started out, bit of a Darwin award there
This is why Park Rangers ask questions multiple times to make absolutely sure that you do actually know what you are doing. They aren't treating you like you are an idiot (unless you are), they are trying to keep you and those around you safe. This includes the safety of people who may have to risk their lives to rescue you.
This is a tragic event that shouldn't have happened. Many, many mistakes were made, but something I keep coming back to is - why didn't they see the car or parking lot when they were on the ridge?
Imagine being in the middle of the desert with 3 water bottles and watching your friend use 1 out of the 3 bottles to cook some hot dogs 😂🤬
Makes no sense, if you have a fire just cook the hot dogs over the fire da fuck you boiling them for??
Especially since they could've skipped the water and just cooked them over the fire
And most hotdogs are already cooked so…..
Outdoorsmen they were not.
They weren’t lost by that point
13:10 My son (his 7), yelled "RAPHIE!! There is No Road!" I didn't realize how invested he was in the story.
Isn’t this a bit much for a 7 year old?
I’ve missed watching these. My husband passed away last November after a long illness. We used to listen together…I just couldn’t face it after that, until now. Love Mr Ballen…these spooky videos bring back bittersweet memories.
Sorry for your loss! Welcome back! 💙
Yes, I understand it so much. I did that after my mom passed away. Couldn't watch anything we watched together... Very sorry!
sincere and deepest condolences!
So sorry to hear that about your husband 😞 I totally understand that though. My ex was a musician and I couldn't listen to music for the longest time. Welcome back to all of us and especially Mr Ballen 😊❤📖
Sorry for your loss. ..
When I was in the Marines, we had a guy who got lost out at 29 Palms, CA. I was literally the first person who got to his last known position where we found the bulk of his gear, including both canteens. By the time his platoon realized he was missing, it was about 3 days, which is unacceptable and resulted in very serious consequences for the platoon Sgt., company commander, and others. The first thing I found was a group of rocks making an arrow, presumably in the direction he traveled. Unfortunately, it was in the exact opposite direction from where he should have traveled. I believe that happened in August of 1988. They found him several miles away around January of 1989. When people are severely dehydrated and hungry, they make irrational decisions because their brains don’t function correctly in those situations. Always be prepared when you go out there, even for a short trip. You have to be able to use a map and compass. You have to stay hydrated, even more important than eating. And get a good knife, not to kill your partner, but to save your own life and anyone with you.
oh wow yeah I just commented to someone else that I imagine going that long without food and water would make you literally start tripping
Stationed at 29 palms 09-13. We were drilled with that story every year before our summer safety standown
I live in 29 palms. Cant imagine getting lost here especially with the heat that goes around here.
When hiking the Grand Canyon , there is a stopping point with a park ranger, sitting at it & he or she, WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT let you pass , ANY FURTHER, UNLESS , you are carrying enough food & water for at least 2 days & some basic required survival tools. I got to pass. I already prepare like that, even when hiking only a flat mile. Prepare for the worst & expect only the best. I grew up off grid , homesteading, in the remote forest, as a sustainence farmer. Eating only what we grew or raised. I was put in charge of foraging in the forest for edible tubers , plants and berries. Survival , was and is , ALWAYS at the forefront of my existence.
29 Palms is a misnomer. It's a hellhole of a desert wasteland , waiting to vanquish any soul, lost in it.
Thank you so much for having the option of subtitles on your videos. I've been diagnosed with ADHD and an auditory processing disorder and major depressive disorder. Sometimes people will think I'm partially deaf, but my hearing is okay I'm just struggling to correctly process the information and pay attention. As they're entertaining your videos help lessen my depression, and the subtitles help me pay attention.
I have ADHD too let’s go 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
I work weekends and get up very early for the drive. And every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday I pop on one of your videos and listen to 2 or 3 of them. Thank you for helping me keep my sanity, keep up the amazing content!
I'm from New Mexico and years ago, i got lost in the Sanggre de Cristo Mountains. My first thought was, "No, this can't be happening. I'm an experienced hiker/camper." Well, this experienced hiker had left the campsite on a "little walk" and would be back within an hour to meet up with my partner. I didnt even take the basic backpack loaded with survival stuff that i ALWAYS took, even on short hikes, nor did i leave word where i was going. Luckily, i hiked out the next day to the relief of search and rescue, with severe hypothermia 0:03 . Oh, did i mention that i was a volunteer counselor for CISD? My point is, that no matter how experienced you are, you can't let your guard down for a minute. It could cost you your life.
As you know, ALWAYS tell someone your movements if nothing else.
Glad you're back safely
Exactly! I've gotten lost 2 times on hikes in NM. One in bitter cold rain, which I fortunately had brought enough emergency parkas for the entire group (apparently I was the only one to think to bring them). And another where we ran out of water, and had to find a stream. Both day hikes. Having a compass, remaining calm, and having emergency supplies is the only thing that kept us from disaster. We weren't tourists, some of us had even been on these trails before.
Beautiful mountains, I hike them when I visit Trinidad, Colorado! Stay safe!
Cool story Hansel!
Partner
I live in Australian desert. So many tourists that don’t listen to directions or take warnings. 1) never leave your vehicle and walk to get help 2) take extra water 3) know how to use a compass (at least know your east to west) 4) when there’s life, there’s hope
@@FerociousKZ say u don’t even have a compass or map like these guys did. When they checked in with the rangers and started walking they only needed to make a mental note of the direction (say they were walking west - the sun sets in the west , rises in the east) now u know your general direction/bearing. So because they are in open desert country (no trees to block your sun) u only need to see sun rising from the east to know that’s where your back tracking. Also following your foot marks left in sand. The fact Ranger policy is to find them after 3 days would tell them to ‘stay put’ until found. If your hurt or out of water and people know your general location (you’ll be missed) don’t go anywhere. 15 miles from their destination is so close lol it’s unbelievable they got so lost. Always follow Ranger or locals directions take warnings seriously
@@FerociousKZit’s way easier that you’re thinking, sun sets in the west. The key is not freaking out under the stress
The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.....the you can figure out north and south from that. But a 🧭 would he even better. Common sense would be best....
Exactly I live near the Jousha Tree national park near Palm Springs in California. It's warnings everywhere & us locals tell people the best and worst times to go. They never listen, get lost and when found they always have a small water bottle that's been empty. It's some people that are never found..
So nobody's gonna talk about how there's two 3s?
I gently touch the Like button. The things Mr Ballen wants us to do to it makes me feel for the poor guy. Love your story-telling ability, sir. You're the greatest. Thank you. May your social media platforms keep growing.
Hahah
I have often wondered what sort of secret evils the Like button has committed against Mr. Ballen to make him carry such a profound and persistent grudge :D
Your fantastic storytelling keeps me sane in this crazy mixed up world. Thank you for all that you do Mr. Ballen!
facts i’m so alert now 😂😂😂 i look at anything as possible danger lol
I lived in New Mexico for near a decade as an adult. There are so many stories of out of towners and other folks dying who didnt have any experience with arid and desert hiking. I remember one of the summers, a family of 4 from out of country went into White Sands to hike with only a small amount of water, a couple of parents and a couple of kids. (I wanna say it was Germany but this, sadly, happens a lot with folks from out of country.) They got lost and were found with the parents dead, shielding the kids from the elements and letting them have the water bottle. The kids survived but I can only imagine how heartbroken they were. I can only imagine they suffer from survivor's guilt. People underestimate the need for water and to stay on the trail at White Sands. I hiked there a lot during moonlight hikes. You could easily get lost if you dont follow the markers. Deserts aren't a joke. Bring water. In New Mexico, walking requires water.
Yes! I'm from around the area, and I remember that tragedy. It was a family from France. Very sad indeed.
@@cwest8010 France sounds right!! I wanna say it was 2014/2015. It was so sad. I remember them having a baby, now that I think of it. I don't remember if the baby survived. I hope the kids are okay!
Want to
One gallon of water per person per day is adequate for a stroll around the block or sitting in the shade. I have had sweat running out of the vents of my jungle boots before, though, and been wet with sweat from waist to ankles. Those were more like three- or four-gallon days.
I live in New Mexico. They were from France. Very sad situation. I was doing Search and Rescue during that time. Most calls are from people not being prepared for the environment/weather/terrain etc. There are signs at White Sands saying to bring a lot of water and you definitely don't want to do that hike during the hot months, which they did.😢
I remember reading this story a few yrs ago. Raffi is from my hometown, so it was all over the news there. I've lived half my life on the East Coast, half in Southern Ca, and one thing I've learned for sure: ppl who are not from the desert have no business messing around out there. They never bring enough water, they don't know how to read the maps, they don't bring a Sat phone. So many unnecessary tragedies. I always feel sorry for the park rangers, b/c they so frequently find ppl in states of such distress &/or death.
I'm from _way_ up north, close to 2000 miles north of Carlsbad Caverns, yet I would have the sense to bring tons of water if I ever went to hike in a desert. The same goes to compass, satellite phone, etc. It's just common sense.
Yeah, not just the desert though; I grew up in the Rocky Mountains and I know all this stuff... but I still don't know if I would go wandering around the desert for days/weeks like I do in the mountains because the mountains always have water (you just need to bring a filtration device). In saying that, I'd be more likely to be someone who would bring too much water than not enough and weigh my whole pack down!
I dont believe it's a geographical thing, I believe it's a dumb people thing. I've lived in the Appalachians all my life and if I ever went to the desert, I can guarantee you I'm doing my homework ahead of time and over preparing in terms of gear and water. You can never have too much. It's better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it. Same goes for people that get lost and die here in these mountains- they were dumb about it and weren't prepared at all. Preparation is key. Ignorance is inevitable amongst most of society unfortunately.
@@10zlowish more people took the same precautions. From AZ and every single summer we watch the news about someone needing to be rescued off the mountains because the lack of preparation, and hydration combined zero respect for the summer heat. There was one group that decided to go hike the superstition mountains in search of the lost Dutchman's mine with only one water bottle between 3 adults. They weren't from the SW and underestimated the AZ heat. It's gotten so bad with out of state hikers we had to start closing trails during the summer. Appalachian trails sound like a blast, one day!
It was 1999... two teenagers aren't going to have a satellite phone.
(The iPhone was still 8 years away from initial release).
I knew this one before ya told it, but it’s still astounding to me.
To not only bring less water than you’d drink on an ordinary day in a cool, air-conditioned office, but then to use half of it to boil hotdogs when you would’ve had less to carry (and in my opinion, better tasting hotdogs) if they had just cooked them over an open fire feels so incredibly naive. And to keep walking even though you’re lost and can’t read a map? Especially for Raffi to have supposedly had ‘experience’ with camping.
I grew up camping and learning survival skills from my father, but their mistakes felt like a complete lack of *basic* common sense.
Dude the way you tell these stories and narrate them is so good. Keep on going man.
It just goes to show, regardless of how much experience a person has, its always wise to be prepared for the unexpected/ worst case scenario.
Absolutely.
Raffi was the one who acted like he knew what he was doing, and so it came to dire circumstances. How they brought only that much water boggles my mind.
sounds like he intended to kill dave
Why?
Yes Raffi was at fault but so was Dave. Dave was a grown man and he should have insisted on carrying more water.
Apparently they also brought a topographical map, which neither of them could understand or read.
@@user-digitalfarmgirl Kill your buddy, drink his blood (an excellent source of both hydration and nutrients), make it sound like some "pact" gone wrong. I bet if they had thought to test Raffi's feces (did they even have the technology in '99?), they'd have found Dave's DNA.
Yo John, love the vids! After falling asleep to one your playlists I woke up experiencing my first case of mild sleep paralysis. There was a shadow demon that creeped over to me and disappeared when I came to, looked like the one you described from your first story, I think the strange dark and mysterious vibes manifested lol
You are an inspiration that found its way to the people that needed it. Thank you Mr. Ballen! Such an appropriate name! You take us “Over the top!” 💛🙏💛💯💯💯
A friend of mine was going to do an Outward Bound backpacking trip after graduation. He spent his whole life going backpacking with his family and spent the year preceding his big trip. I went with him for one of his practice hikes. It was a looped trail in Missouri. It was only going to take a couple of days but my friend loaded his frame pack like it was for his big cross country trip to get used to the weight. He planned on using iodine tabs and boiling the available water to get water. This was thirty years ago and water filters were not what they are now. I just had a surplus alice pack that had my tent, sleeping bag, food, and a few layers of extra clothes. I also brought three gallons of water. It upset my friend a little because he thought I was going to slow him down and it wasn't how he planned to get his water on his trip. By the end of the second day he had a bit of a change of heart and was more than happy to drink one of the gallons I brought with me since all the ponds near the trail were pretty rancid and stagnant.
I always bring 2 full canteens and a full camel back every time I go out for a weekend in Missouri
So, did he go on his trip?
@@rogiroja Yes he did. He had a blast.
@@igitaq I hope he learned his lesson and took sufficient water.
A tragic story, but a valuable reminder of the importance of being prepared when hiking in extreme conditions. My thoughts are with Dave's family and friends.
It's boggles my mind that Rafi ignored the park ranger re: the water.
Neither could read a topographical map??
I'm angry about this.
So avoidable.😠🥵
When Mrballen tells his kids the story of the three little pigs he still makes it last half an hour and he somehow makes it strange dark and mysterious.
Just watched this in the pub. I guessed the final twist, but the 4 that came before blindsided me. I genuinely said "WOW" at the end. Love u Mr Ballen.❤
"I killed and buried my best friend." That is so chilling and I am glad the family understood he didn't mean to kill. At that stage neither was thinking straight. Very sad story, but brilliantly told.
@@SSJacksWolfwhat’s happening in Canada?
Note to self: don't read the comment section before listening to the entire story because some people will post spoilers.
I think Rafi straight up killed Dave. Not a mercy killing. Just murder. Dave was probably blaming him for everything that went wrong. And Rafi stabbed him. Look at how he reveled in describing it.
@@lanaburke1819 They are probably talking about how self-forever sleep is being recommended in Canada as a treatment for depression or even just minor aches and pains there was one where the VA in Canada (Idk if it's called the VA up there but it's the same equivalent as in the U.S.) told a soldier with PTSD to go to the clinic and ask for an assisted forever sleep as a treatment for their PTSD. Pretty much you can ask for assisted forever sleep. The way it's laid out you can ask for assisted forever sleep because you are missing a leg or your eyesight isn't 20/20 all kinds of things that shouldn't qualify for assisted forever sleep are being allowed and hospitals aren't telling the patient's families that they have an appt for assisted forever sleep here is some stories.
ua-cam.com/video/hVxGOD8YNu8/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/users/shortsf_gRDTs8l_U
ua-cam.com/video/esiagRgpJg0/v-deo.html
@@pollypockets508 Death of David Coughlin on wikipedia reveals more of what you're saying. I absolutely do not believe Raffi could move his much bigger friend's body. Esp if he was truly in the condition he was supposedly in. There's a reason for the expression "dead weight". Even a healthy person would have trouble.
The picture shows David to be much bigger. I'm gonna do more research on this story. I lived in Carlsbad for 8-9 yrs right before this happened.
Also an article by the Guardian titled: "Desert killer may have had a thirst for fiction" was written right after this happened. It, too, has interesting info on the condition of both men when found. Suspicious
I grew up in west Texas, just 3 hours from Carlsbad Park. I have hiked Rattlesnake Canyon many times, and it is no joke, especially if you're unprepared. The heat and dry desert air will suck the moisture out of you in a hurry. Once dehydration hits, you become incapable of making rational decisions, and things begin to spiral even more out of control.
I grew up in AZ. tourists die there every year.
Yep, I'm in West Texas.. people that don't live here can't understand how insanely hot it gets and how quickly u can lose your mind! It can be miserable
@@Chemically_Induced I lived in AZ for a little while. I remember hearing about a lot of them.
@@user-wl9ue2gd1r whew Snyder is hard living. West Texas here too.
@@niki-smellsgooddon't forget the freezing cold winter
So heartbreaking 💔 preparation is EVERYTHING while enjoying the outdoors, I hope someone listens to this and improves their trip planning so that something good can come of something so dark.
I find it interesting that they could walk for hours away from their tent and then find their way back to it but couldn't successfully find their way back to the parking lot.
Edit: they got lost on a trail but were able to search for a road that didn't exist and find their way back to a small tent after becoming dehydrated and disoriented while coincidentally being relatively near the parking lot the whole time seems... Strange!
That just doesn't add up to me. It would make more sense if he had killed the friend and then eventually found the tent but his friend was buried near the tent.
You'd be surprised how easy it is, walking for hours in what you think is a straight line, often end ups being a large curve.. as well as desert like places being eerily similar and flat from most perspectives.
@@serwalkerofthekeynes8761 i know that's my point. The trail was marked but they got lost while they could walk hours to find an imaginary road and then find their way back to the tent.
@@MrTeddy1994yes I totally agree and found it odd as well
Walking in large circles. Very common.
Am I the only one suspicious of Raffi? He was the one who insisted they didn’t need that much water - backed by the fact that he had more experience - yet he wasn’t able to read the map or recognise sooner that they were going the wrong way? He was the one who insisted they keep going. He was the one who saw the moving lights(according to an article by NYTimes). And he and his friend had a suicide pact, but then he exerted the last of his energy burying his friend rather than killing himself? Maybe I’ve watched too many of these, but something about this story feels off.
I read in a comment that a possible motive brought up at trial was that David had had an affair with Raffi's girlfriend Kristin. I also find this whole story quite suspicious.
It's a little hard for me to accept that he'd go through all that and almost die himself just to kill his best friend.
@@kristinwojtowich8902maybe Raffi thought the ranger would come looking sooner, he knew where the car was but couldn't just blow his story and walk to it so had to wait it out until "help" came
No, non sei il solo...in più questi hanno camminato per giorni, ma erano sempre allo stesso posto...
When I read he didn't know how to read the map it felt like a handful of ice water to the back of my neck.
Wow I remember when you first started this channel its awesome to see how you've grown much success to you bud!
Love ALL of your stories Mr Ballen!
As a person with an extreme ability to get lost everywhere everytime, even on very familiar street, even on straight path, I find their situation so terrifying and creepy...
loved your videos
😂
I also have no innate sense of direction, so I get the panic they would have felt, but knowing that I had not only filed just an overnight hiking permit, and also had an in person conversation with a ranger about said hike, there's no way I would have given up all hope of rescue, after being only 48 hours late on my return. They'd only walked an hour from the parking lot initially, so the second they knew they'd taken a wrong turn going back, if they had just stayed in their tent, they would have been fine. Treated for dehydration yes, but it's like they collectively made every poor decision a person could make, in the smallest period of time.
After two days or so in a new place i can navigate pretty well with a map, but this is in cities where you have points of reference for example a certain building or tower. I can't imagine being in a barren desert and also no shops to buy water!
A little bit of knowledge would have saved them
Sun rise east
Sets West
Sad story
This story breaks my heart. People should always listen to Park Rangers. They live and work there so they know what they are talking about. That water could have saved both lives. My heart goes out to the family who lost their loved one and I hope this story can serve as an example to other young hikers out there. Thank you once again for an awesome story very well told.
It seems absolutely mental to me that they just assumed that they brought enough water just because one of them is an experienced hiker. If I leave my house for more than an hour, I always make sure to bring more than enough water for the time period that I'm leaving for just in case something happens and I'm not able to access water. Perhaps I'm overly cautious, but I don't like feeling thirsty even when I'm not stuck in the desert on a super hot day so if it was me, I'd probably bring even more than what the park ranger said to bring. I'd rather my trip take a little while longer than have to die of dehydration, or ask my mate to kill me so that animals wouldn't eat me and I wouldn't have to die a slow death. It's absolutely heartbreaking what these two men went through, and so sad that that guy went to prison when he was just doing what he believed was right for his friend. I'm sure that living, while knowing that your friend could have also been saved would be enough to break someone.
They were stupid and deserved what they got.
❤ your narration very compassionate
Thank you for your service 🙏.
Nothing better than a spooky Mr. Ballen video on a nice relaxing Sunday during the fall!
Spooky ? Idk I don't think it's spooky anymore ? Or strange dark and mysterious it's usually true crime and crazy survival stories
It’s thanksgiving weekend in Canada … perfect time
@@leeannablanton8143True 😢
Yes
It's Monday for me 😢
I've hiked in the Mojave Desert dozens of times over 50 years. I've run into other hikers that were lost and in distress. I just don't understand how people can be so unprepared, yet think they have it all figured out...until they don't. The woods can be equally challenging.
People don't respect nature as much as they should, until they get humbled by it.
I just don’t understand how people actually go hiking to these dangerous places 🤦♀️ what’s the purpose
It's because people do not comprehend how weak human is in face of nature. I was like that but myself when I was a kid, but my ignorance was about water, rivers and oceans.
I never understood how people can be scared of it or why so many people died in water until I myself almost drowned in the river. After that my respect towards this element is immense and I understand how stupid I was.
i guess most of the time it's just poor judgement. i mean here in germany we have such a dense population on a rather small area, no deserts but just lush forests and meadows. you can essentially hike with nothing but the shirt on your back because there is plenty of streams, lakes and rivers and civilization is never really far, no matter where you are. but even here i would take at least the most basic things like enough water, some food and at least a knife, a flashlight, some container to boil water and a lighter.
never in my life would i go hiking so poorly prepared in the us with areas where you could hike for days and weeks without seing a single house, town, road or any form of civilization. i mean... there is a reason why the standard equipment every soldier caries around is like 30 kg. you can basically survive mostly anywhere for however long you want if you are prepared for the environment and if it offers food and water.
and those 2 guys went into the DESERT with 1.25 liters of water for 2 grown adults and used half of that to boil bloody hotdogs. 1 of them should drink 2 litres on a cloudy winter day so you can double that for the desert and calculate 3-4 liters per day per person. i mean into the desert i would rather take nothing else, no food, no tent but enough water and a sleeping bag.
very hard in Germany to end up in a Mr. Ballen story, it's true. There aren't even any animals that might eat us . . . @@Dunkelelf3
Weirdly I was just thinking about the film Gerry earlier today before clicking this video. Nearly 20 years since I watched that mesmerising, haunting film and I still get chills at the sound of footsteps crunching in dirt & gravel.
It is always so neat when you cover a subject I am familiar with! I find it thrilling. I own the book Journal of the Dead. Thank you for covering this!
One thing I always try to get people to understand is that everything in the desert looks much closer than it actually is. A road, mesa, or a monument may look just yards away when it's actually miles away. Also,
always bring more water than you think you need if there is no water source available. AND, never give up on being rescued. Even in the most awful situations, there is always hope.
Literally nothing has the physical capability of looking yards away that is actually miles away.
@@Hey_Jamieunless you don't know the actual size of the item you are looking at
@@Hey_Jamie sure it can. it's called perspective. on certain terrain where the ground is so flat, uniform in color, and without any vegetation, nothing to cast shadows, for miles in every direction. imagine you're a paperclip on a blank piece of paper and you're trying to determine how far the furthest edge of the paper is. because you're so close to the surface you're looking across, and the surface is completely blank, it would be impossible to make even a good guess... if it was a page from a book with text, you could probably at least guess, maybe not super accurately but you'd at least be able to estimate based on the spacing of the text. you need features to be able to tell distances, so on a featureless terrain it can be impossible. and even if there are features like rocks, it may be impossible to tell if you're seeing a small rock close by, or a large rock miles away, because there arent enough features between you and the object to gain perspective. now imagine, all of this on top of the extreme heat! high temperatures and vast, direct sunlight make it impossible to determine distance due to the spatial variations of the index refraction of the air. aka, mirages. if you are looking at something on the other side of a mirage, it is simply not possible to determine the distance. surely you've heard of mirages? they liked using them in old cartoons much like to quick sand or anacondas. there's no shortage of accounts of people getting lost in the desert due to them walking towards a mirage. not to mention, these people started the trip dehydrated and had no water for 3-4 days--they were delirious. the mind plays tricks, and you completely lose the ability to think logically without water even after just 48 hours. so even if they were on a hill and could CLEARLY see a road directly below them, they may not have been able to make the correct, rational decisions, required to make the hike without falling, or getting further lost or injured. there are a lot of things about desert hiking that make it extremely difficult, and it's not just a matter of planning ahead correctly, or even having enough experience. even very experienced desert hikers have gone missing. it is a very unforgiving landscape, and nature is smarter than we are. it's easy to overestimate your competency out in nature, especially in a place you've never been before. stay safe everyone!
@Hey_Jamie Since it's something I, along with others, have experienced, you're incorrect. As the other person pointed out, there is an effect that occurs when we see a mirage. An example of monuments is Shiprock on the Navajo reservation. In Newcomb, I can see Shiprock, and it seems so close, but it's 35 miles away. In the barren desert that is flat for many miles, everything seems odd. You're welcome to come see for yourself.
@@Hey_JamieEver looked into some side mirrors on cars? They literally carry that warning 😊
You know, I love these stories, This one makes me glad that I received military training for hostile environments, that means the area will kill you, not the wildlife occupying it, they will too but that's a side note. In the desert you don't travel during the day if you're lost, you find shade and wait till it cools down, you travel at night. It's harder to navigate but you'll survive longer. You use the daylight to find markers or points of interest from your shady spot and you try to get to those areas at night if you can see some more at night, get to those, just don't travel during the day under the sun and heat. You have to keep your core temp down as much as possible, you don't "guzzle" the water you sip it, take a gulp once in a while, but sip the water. The big thing is, keep your core temp down and never go into any desert even if you've been there hundreds of times without at least a gallon of water, hot water is still better than no water.
Yeah I was yelling at the screen about that whole traveling at night instead of during the day. Like how stupid can you be to decide to go out in the desert without looking up the basic survival information?
Amen brother.
@@ukchanak Exactly, it's like Do you want to die? Because that's how you die quickly, I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did, so kudos to him. But I was thinking, from the title, that he ate his buddy.
Thank you for taking the time to write this comment. As a 58 year old grandmother I get upset when I hear stories like these which star young men and women who had great futures ahead of them but died because they either didn't have the information to keep them safe in the great outdoors or, as in this tragic case, they refuse to listen. As Mr Ballen has a lot of younger subscribers who are watching this episode and we can only hope that they might read and listen to your words of wisdom and live to grow old and gain some wisdom of their own! From country NSW Australia.
You're not the only one benefitting! I was blessed to learn military survival techniques from all my kin that served! [I enlisted myself but didn't make the cut]
You will impart your knowledge and save many lives!
So I read the book, did the research on this story, drove from Washington State all the way to Carlsbad and hiked this trail. I don't know how it looked in 99, but present day the trail is hard to lose. Even if you take out the 100 rock piles that are there now, I find it so hard to believe they got turned around that bad. Hell, they even saw headlights one night, they should have been able to get out.
I guess they weren't the brightest
I suspect one of them didn't want the other to get out.
@ruirosado9737 It took too long to find someone talking sense. This sounded like a way to get away with murder.
They took three little water bottles with them to the dessert and used one to cook hot dogs.... I think we can assume they weren't the brightest.
@@anaaguilar3304literally the worst way to even enjoy a hot dog 🤯
“Real Photo of a Different Storm Cloud” lollol that would’ve been funny.
So great to see how far you’ve come I remember when you were at 400k and we’d look for the hidden picture you’d throw in the videos! 10 mill soon
@longkiks608kikz3 think it use to be a ghost thing appearing behind trees and shit
@@longkiks608kikz3 You can look at his older videos at anytime and see them. Just look at the pinned comments for them
I miss those days!! When we had to find the hidden like button
I never could find those pictures.
@@longkiks608kikz3there was a bunch there was like different faces I remember mike myers being one I think Jason vorhees was another probably closer to 800k -1 mil was when he was doing that could be off number wise as when I started watching him he had basically just switched from telling stories on tik tok and started on UA-cam
So Raffi lead Dave into a desert to camp because he had "way more camping experience" but decided to ignore the park rangers warning about how much water they would need because he "knew better", kept his friend walking in a direction that he knew the parking lot was in but was wrong, then knew there was a highway ahead and insisted on walking ahead even when Dave wanted to return to the camp, then murdered his friend because "his friend wanted him to", not sure I believe that Raffi all of a sudden decided to listen to someone other than his own faulty logic and it was to murder Dave.
Unfortunately "experience" often equals "arrogance".
I agree. Murder was the point.
@@wms72 go back to 4chan. Such a stupid comment
I don’t think murder was the point. He had no way of knowing when rangers would find him if at all. Unless he for some unknown reason wanted to attempt a murder suicide, he would have done so before they were starving to death. I mean does that really make sense? To go out and die a slow and painful death just to kill someone else? And if Raffi’s intent was to die, why not just kill Dave and himself when they were far enough away from the trail? If the argument is that Raffi nearly died just to make his murder story more believable- that just doesn’t make sense logically. He was near death himself, which circles us back to the previous argument which is if murder suicide was the plan, why die slow yourself when you could make it fast? Why torture yourself and the other person for days? With no way of knowing when he would be found he couldn’t guarantee he would be saved, and he was on deaths door as well when he was found, so it wasn’t like he was going to walk the remaining 15 minutes to the trail- he was too weak.
If it was a plan for murder suicide He would have just shot himself and Dave and wouldn’t have waited days until they were both near death just to do what he always intended.
So a murder/suicide doesn’t make sense and him using all this as a cover doesn’t make sense because he was dying too.
Nah, there was no reason for him to kill his friend and it just doesn’t make sense to do it that way at all. I think this was a case of ego getting in the way of logic and intelligence which put them in a SHITuation.
🤔
Love you Mr. Ballen!
Wow. That is a story of what happens when you are under prepared and over confident. I couldn't believe they made any of those decisions (literally the worst thing they could have done at every turn). What a shame that happened.
My wife and her friend went out to hike while her brother and I were finishing setting up campsite. They got lost. Here's the kicker, we were camped at the base of a granite rock mountain. You literally would have to be completely oblivious of your surroundings to get lost. Fortunately, when the girls hadn't come back my brother in law and I took off to find them. We found them a couple of miles away a little ways from the trail hugging each other and crying their eyeballs out. I asked why they didn't just walk around the base of the mountain until they came back to campsite. They said they hadn't thought about it. Maybe they would have if we weren't so quick to go looking for them or maybe they wouldn't, but after that I made sure to show my wife how to stay focused on situational awareness when hiking.
When you go into panic mode, you lose your rational thinking. That happened to me right when I moved to my city, where I live right on the main street. I got lost while out on foot and had to ask for directions about 3x but when I went to that spot a few years later I realised that all I would have had to do back then was to STOP, calm down, and LISTEN for the sounds of the main road.
😂 sorry I know it wasn't funny then , but a lil now
@@kristiwetsel9531 Yeah, I used to tease her a little about it every now and then. I'd basically forgotten about it until I watched this video.....🙂
In sequoia national park?
I live in the Ozark Mountains. I go hiking all the time with amazing trails. People get lost every year. I never thought it would happen to me but even I got lost with a friend because we decided to go off the trail to check some stuff out. Only walked about 300 or 400 ft, took us 3 hours to find our way back to the trail. We were lucky that we did at all
You have to mark the trail so you know where you came from. You also need to look back so you recognize the landscape.
How does that happen?
@@Wisdom-Nuggets-Tid-Bits there are a lot of Bluffs. We climb down a part where we could get using a tree to help us step down the Steep Rock. Then we went exploring. Twists and turns, after a hundred yards or so we decided to go back. Couldn't find the exact spot we got up the bluff but tried three or four different places. Ended up getting lucky in finding the one that led back to the trail. The trails around here aren't what you would think normal Trails look like in a national forest. People go missing all the time, it is super easy to get lost because everything looks the same
@@kalanhitchens8782 Ah, well veering off more than 300 feet is risky - I can see why you got lost. I would say to veer off no more than 50 feet. Even in the national and state forests on the actual trails can be tricky because the trails break into different legs and then you forget where you want to go. I have never been hiking more than 3 hours anywhere.
Been following you for almost 3 years now before you broke 400k subs. Love every video. Keep it up 👍
I've missed your story's bro.much love clint
I personally wouldn't kill my best friend, we started the hike together and that's how we would end it, together. If we both died, it would be together. Always be prepared for anything especially in those circumstances. Thanks again John for another "Strange,Dark and Mysterious". episode. I look forward to hearing these stories each week. Stay safe and strong! Much love from Canada 🇨🇦 ❤️
In this situation, you can’t give up as long as you’re still breathing.
🇨🇦🇺🇸
If you are in a situation of your lowest physically and mentally it's hard to weigh what's moral, what's right, what's not. These men decided what is the most reasonable act to do given their most desperate situation their lives would ever experience. All throughout history men will do the most unthinkable when desperate.
No one would, Raphy killed Rave and created a cover story.
It’s easy to say that from the comfort of your living room, but it when it looks certain that you’re going to die the horrific death of dehydration, a quick way out would seem like bliss.
It would seem like an act of mercy and actually would be in many cases
So sad! I've actually been there with my parents as a kid, in 1960, whilst in the U.S. Having seen the desolation, felt the heat etc. it made this story even more real and frightening. I feel for both these young men!! This should be a warning lesson to all prospective hikers!! Well told as always Mr Ballen, thank you! 💖
Very sad and the fact they both could've led great lives is also frustrating. People are so stupid sometimes. This Raffi person has to live with knowing he cost his friend his life.
I don’t hike. I don’t camp. I stay in my house safe and sound and watch the stars from my balcony and Mr Ballens videos.
The saddest part is the guilt raffi now has to live with of killing his best friend.
Upon that he even got sent to prison.
So horrifying that they both would've survived together if they just waited a few more hours. In this case, it's impossible to know what happened between them (if there was really a suicide pact or not). Only Dave and Raffi know for sure. So I do understand the court system holding Raffi accountable for murder, especially since there were some complicated circumstances in their relationship that were suggested during the trial. As for what I think I would do in that situation, I think I would just lie there and wait to die. Especially since the delirium from dehydration would make it so difficult to do anything else. I don't think I'd take action to kill myself unless I was badly injured and in immense pain with no hope (rattlesnake bite, broken leg, etc.)
What were the complicated circumstances?
That's the thing, they were in immense pain.
If you'd ever gone that long without food and water, you'd understand.
I 100% get it!
Never give up.
You are absolutely right. My husband and I are friends with Raffi and his family...this was totally a circumstantial tragedy.
How can you say that? “If they would’ve waited a few hours” they aren’t in control of that
Lance is a family friend. You've told this story accurately and respectfully for a tragic event.
Blessings to you
I camped in this canyon in 2016 after hitchhiking to Carlsbad and getting dropped off at the mouth of the canyon by a park ranger. I've heard this story before, but still surprised they got lost.. there's only one path in and one path out. How that place came alive at night I'll never forget.
Can you clarify a bit more about how the canyon cable alive at night?
@@xXTwigManXx Under the sun, everything was still. But when the lights went out, there were sounds coming from every which way. Slithering, creaking, scuttling, snapping.. All sorts of creatures were on the move, although I could only guess what they were. I wasn't frightened, but it was a bit eerie. I would say there was a lot more action out there in the desert at night than I'd ever experienced out in the woods at night.
WOW. Another riveting story
My heart is broken for all involved. So close to rescue but Dave just couldn’t take it. I can’t imagine the guilt his best friend deals with daily. Prayers for all. ❤
Or could he? We only have his ‘friends’ word for that. We have no idea what actually happened out there.
@@Irunwithscissors63 what? you cant be serious lol
@@user-lovesyou yes. I can be. This sort of thing has happened before - not this situation but times where there’s no witnesses and only the other guys word for it.
@@Irunwithscissors63 so wait can you explain what u think happened im curious?
@@user-lovesyou I don’t know what happened. No one does except David and his friend.
They’re in what they believe to be the middle of nowhere with no obvious hope. In their frustration and fear they start blaming each other for the circumstances they’re in. Out comes the knife. Who knows?! But that’s a real possibility.
Funny how they didn’t have the energy to finish lifting SOS rocks but he had the energy to pile rocks on top of his friend.
Those poor men… I wish nothing but peace to everyone that this personally affected. I cannot imagine the suffering they must have experienced to have brought them to make such a tragic decision.
I'm just absolutely shocked they chose to ignore the seasoned park rangers sound advice to bring at least 1 gallon per person per day and I stead chose to bring a grand total of 1.5 liters for the both of them! If they had shared that plan with the ranger he likely would have chose not to grant them permission to visit that section of the park.
@@cdk1016Yea we all are. Still r.i.p❤️❤️❤️
So what happened to Dave wasn't beautiful? Weird.
@@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah My username is just a reference to leaves in the fall. When they change colors as the seasons shift from summer to autumn.
@@DEADisBEAUTIFUL Very poorly worded then.
As a born and rasied New Mexican here's some advice. If you're planning on hiking at Carlsbad Caverns at any time of the year, my best advice is to listen to the park rangers' advice. I can't stress enough how hot it can get in New Mexico, especially out in the middle of nowhere. And as it is New Mexico, that rain storm that they were in? That's natural for New Mexico. It could be hot and dry one minute, and cloudy and rainy the next. It's always a gamble with the weather, and the weather isn't your only trouble. The environment is not forgiving either. So in conclusion, always listen to the park rangers' advice, cause it just might save you.
This gave out The Mist's ending vibe. Very tragic. RIP, Dave. My condolences to the bereaved.
I remember this incident. The Chihuahuan Desert is my home, and it's a vast and VERY hot place for most of the year. Each year I run into folks who come from other parts of the country to do some exploring, hiking and camping. They hit trails with no water, bring no sunscreen, drive family cars with under-rated tires into the desert and laugh when you say how much water they might need. They forget that a temperature of, say, 112° is the temperature in the shade, not out in the sun and the sun is pretty brutal most days. Just this summer I stopped to help a couple in the middle of nowhere and between them they had a cooler with three beers and two sodas! Had I not driven them 76 miles back to civilisation, they'd be on Mr. Ballen's list. When travelling to other parts of the country, I've learned that if the locals...or rangers...say you need a coat, need bear spray, need water, need whatever, then it is best to have that stuff. The body count each year out here is nothing to sneeze at. Good vid!
I went to High School with Raffi. He was a nice and fun guy. Not the kind of guy to be violent or underhanded. Just such a tragic story…to have to live with the weight of the guilt. He’s doing well enough now, it seems…but I hope he can forgive himself.
Was it your opinion that the guy was a know it all moron?
It just seems like the stupidest decisions were his and we only have his version that Dave 'wanted' to die by knife.
Was he a rational guy or did he like to break rules and do things his way
Thanks for the update, I was wandering how he was doing. I wish too he can forgive himself.
Thank you for updating us. I hope he got help dealing with the unimaginable guilt and heartache he had to live with. 🙏
It must have been awful, to do what his friend asked, you could argue that here was a very true friend, who when asked to do the impossible, he did. Not knowing if they would be rescued, I think anyone sitting in comfort of their own home, or office etc shouldn't judge the guy. Easy to make judgements when in no danger yourself.
Thats insane..another epic mr ballen bed time story..good night
Bro…how did you not talk about the suspicion around the love triangle involving the ex girlfriend and the size of the burial mound Raffi built not being consistent with someone who was weak from dehydration? Also how the investigators only suspected moderate dehydration from the survivor when found?
Yes, exactly!! 💯🎯
Damn. I read your comment before I got to that part! 😖🤣
yep im 10 minutes in and I came to the comments and read this. This is a bad habit of mine.
I don't buy Raffi's story
I was looking through the comments for more info because I suspected murder not just so accident nonsense
I was raised and live in the area where this happened. When i heard the amount of water they took with them i knew it was going to be ugly. During the summer here it is unusual for the temps to be under 100, and in August we reach 110 plus. Always carry more water than you need. You can go weeks without food, but only days without water.
I live in San Diego and east of the city is a huge park of over 7,000 acres. (Mission Trails Regional Park). It’s inland enough that in the summer it can easily be in the mid 90s and above. It’s not only the temp, but the total lack of shade. Every year, multiple people have to be rescued and multiple dogs die.
I agree. Shade helps.
I was paralyzed in March and Mr Ballen helped me get through the early days 💗
i listened to him in the hospital and rehab and it brought me so much comfort while i was injured so bad and alone
Bless your heart! Never give up.
I hope things get better!❤
I can't even begin to wrap my head around giving up all hope and asking my friend to end my life. Then going through with it just to be rescued shortly afterwards. My heart and prayers go out to him, his friend and everyone affected by such a tragedy. I pray that they hv held one another close and forgiven and healed from the ordeal! God be with you and know that even in death love survives 💞
Love your show and excited to find this one! Starting at square one!
Ugh I remember this story now. So sad that they both couldn’t have just gone to sleep and agree to not make the decision until after one more night of rest. Tragic. Side note, I never realized this was at Carlsbad Caverns! I just visited that place and it was absolutely stunning. Thanks for the great story Mr. B! RIP Dave.
I visited Carlsbad once when I was a kid. Definitely memorable even all these years later.
Don't be naive, Raffy murdered Dave and created a cover story.
@@leeow3n it’s ok to have suspicions and think that way, but it’s also ok to believe his story, since I have no idea what took place that night because I was hydrated, in bed with a full stomach, 1000s of miles away.
1:04 absolutely want you to know I am thankful for all you do for victims and their families. Not to mention your story telling is above all the very best ❤
I would have turned back to the original campsite as soon as I noticed the marked path ended.
Also, at the end, why did they decide to kill themselves, instead of at least trying to wait until the park rangers come. They had only been there for 2 nights at that point, so there was definently hope in at least trying to cling on to life.
They didn't want to suffer until someone found them (if it happened at all).
Mr. Ballen Needs to bring back missing 411 stories!!!
As someone who lives across the valley from where this happened, I am always shocked to find out how little people prepare for a trek in the desert. Especially one they are unfamiliar with. Let alone, underestimating the vastness of the Chihuahuan desert. This has happened around here several times. There was another time this sort of thing happened just north of here at White Sands where a family from somewhere in Europe got lost in the dunes that all look the same and ended up dying leaving their child without their parents. Their child was with them. They didn’t bring enough water. They had one or two bottles each and they ended up letting the child drink most of it to stay alive and sacrificed themselves.
As a local to the Chihuahuan, I must warn everyone who is interested in visiting this desert or any desert anywhere to do their research about the weather of the season you plan on coming in and how to deal with the harshness of the heat or the dryness of the cold. Not to mention how incredibly difficult it is to find food here that you don’t have to shoot or trap. The desert is NO JOKE! There are many reasons why we tend to cluster in urban and rural areas along the major rivers that flow through the deserts of the world.
Similar thing going on in Croatia, where tourists tend to go hiking in Biokovo mountain in their flip flops and very small amounts of water. Every year there is at least one or two helicopter interventions, and it's funny how almost everytime they have some silly footwear.
Its not rocket science dude. Only to these two
@@peho8206
croations are dumb cowards lmao
Desert = dangerous
Yeah I worked in Big Bend National Park and there were always search parties looking for lost people. 🤦♀️
Always a great idea not to follow the instructions & advice given by the professionals in a place you've never been to.
a better idea is to make a suicide pact after 3 days of forgetting where you parked...
Typical American attitude
@@2010Dilysnot really.
@@kristinwojtowich8902 most definitely is
I actually did a hike at this area. Beautiful hike. Was actually a really challenging hike too. Lost the trail MANY times. Very glad I downloaded the map before I went and had gps tracking while I was out there. Honestly not surprised that they got lost, but I am surprised that they got lost so close to the trailhead. I guess I figured you would be able to hear the interstate that runs so close to that area.
These photos are beautiful
Lived and went to school in Arizona. Did a lot of hiking. When Mr. Ballen told us how much water they brought, I knew how this story would end. Desert topography is made up of endless acres that to the inexperienced eye all seem to be exact duplicates of one another. Most of all, that desert sun is no joke. It doesn’t suffer foolishness or bravado. You have to plan as though something will go terribly wrong. The first time you don’t will likely be the last time you plan for anything.
I always tell it like this -- when you go hiking in the desert, everything there is trying to kill you -- most of all the sun.
I grew up there, and the amount of sad stories every summer is crazy. Just people not respecting the desert. Besides the water issue, we were always taught to *stay put* if you are lost. If you are in a car, stay in it. Once you go wandering around on foot out there, you're in trouble.
Just up to that point and thought the same!
1. In arid environments where i know there will be no water source, I carry more water.
2. I make sure to leave my own trail marks as I walk and look around for things I can use for landmarks.
3. I stick to my route and don't deviate until I set up camp.
4. I keep my campsite in view when exploring _and_ make trail marks along the path I take.
5. I do not stay longer than my water supply will last for the return hike.
6. I follow the same path out that I took in.
I learned these important steps from a friend who spent a lot of time in and around desert. Those tips will save your life.
Other things to know are about where you're going. Is there any hidden source of water? Do you have a lightweight filter pump to refill a water bottle? Do you know if there are edible plants and when they're safe to eat? What kind of fauna is in that area?
Also, always carry a first aid kit, a beacon of some kind, and a wide brimmed hat. If you do these things, you will increase your chances of survival/rescue if anything goes awry.
Thank you for this life saving info!
You are a smart and sensible person. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
very smart but do you knock down the trail markers after you come back? it's really easy for inexperienced people to get lost following unofficial markers
Been watching since 1.89 subs. I subbed at 2.46. Now you have 4 times that it’s Insane!
This story hits close to home, cuz I go camping and hiking with people who are very underprepared. If it is not for me and another guy we probably would be in a Mrballen story
This is one of the most heartbreaking stories I've ever heard. I can't imagine the pain and guilt Rafi must deal with on a daily basis.
Same here. I just can't get past the thousands of comments here saying things like, "These stories are the best part of my week!!" And, "Loved this one. What a spooky story." He killed his best friend, not realizing that they were SO close to help. They both could have survived. Now he has to live with that. Talk about trauma. 💔😥💔
@@VioletJoy I don't feel sad because they're complete idiots who got exactly what they deserved.
@@VioletJoy Not only did Ravi kill his best friend, he was the one who said they didn't need that much water and packed less than a single person would need for 24 hours even if they were sitting in their air-conditioned living room.
@@audreymuzingo933Do you think it was a setup? (Just curious by your reply) Raffi just wanted Dave gone even if he died too? (There was an allegation that Dave started dating Raffi's ex)
@@OhCeCelia LOL no I don't think it was a setup. Just that killing Dave a few hours before they would be rescued isn't the only thing Rafi has to feel guilty for.
What I have learned from my morbid obsession with these kinds of stories is Stay Put! The moment you think you are lost, sit and wait for rescue.
A lot of these stories took place before smartphones though. In most situations a phone should get you out of these messes. Either by calling help, or at the very least the compass or maps. Not 100% of them, but most
Also, if you have to move in the desert in a survival scenario, you should do it at night. Shelter in place in the day.
What I have learned is stay home. So far, it's worked out OK.
@@Und34d_R NO. You don't want to try that at night. Visibility will be horrible. It will also be hard to spot dangerous animals like snakes. You travel dawn and dusk.
There's some situations in which that could be what gets you killed though if nobody is looking for you, or at least not in the right area or not yet. Just gotta have good wits about you or have someone there who does. Know your situation and whether or not you gotta figure out a plan and get moving, especially when it comes to dehydration, you're on a clock and can't afford to be found a week later.
These guys were just full of great ideas
I was born and raised in Carlsbad New Mexico so to hear you tell a story that happened in my towns national park is so freaking awsome to hear!!! Also it’s called rattle snake springs because the beginning of the canyon is a spring like area with a big pond and a few buildings. What you showed way deep in the canyon. We use to go to the springs on field trips in elementary school. Really cool place though!
If I remember it correctly….its been YEARS since I’ve been out there. But we have a lot of canyons that we use as hunting grounds. We even have one called “slaughter canyon”
It's hard to know what to think from this story. If I was on the jury I probably would have thought Raffi was guilty too. Raffi supposedly had some camping and hiking experience but yet he overrides the ranger's suggestion about how much water they need. Usually the rule of thumb is that when lost, stay by the campsite making to easier to be found. They decided to walk for days instead. It didn't sound like they were walking in circles since they did find their way back to their campsite. Raffi claims they couldn't finish the SOS because they were exhausted yet he found the strength to haul the dead weight body of his friend quite a ways from the tent. I could understand if they had made some kind of pact about regarding one killing the other and drinking the blood or eating some flesh for nourishment to stay alive as others have done. But that wasn't the case. Raffi claims that they were both going to kill themselves but only David ends up dead. Raffi claims he was too exhausted to kill himself but again he found the strength to haul his friends body away from the tent. Raffi claims they didn't want their bodies left to the buzzards but then he drags his buddy out of the tent and leaves it laying where buzzards or animals can find it. There just seems to be way too many strange answers. I just think something happened in that tent and Raffi decided to kill David for whatever reason. It's a sad story indeed and I have a hard time buying it. I've seen plenty of interviews where the killer claimed they intended to kill someone and then themself but they don't commit suicide. Most juries don't buy it as well.
it’s likely that they got angry with each other , the talk could have been an argument
He did place rocks over his body in a memorial to him though, didn't he? The rescuers had to move the rocks to figure out & I would assume (you might be right, I legit have no idea; was just my thought) that vultures wouldn't be able to get to the rocks. Again, just my guess.
Although it adds more to what you said as rocks would be quite heavy to lay over a full grown man. I have no idea if he killed him as mercy or an actual kill, but you do bring up some interesting points.
Adrenaline could have given him just enough energy in that moment before it wore off.. the killing & dragging the friend off & covering him
@@cailin5309 Excellent point.