My great uncle Roy Wilgress was a stoker on the HMS Hermes. He escaped the attack but DOW on a South African hospital ship in the pacific. His last letter is a family heirloom, that was received after my great grandmother had news of his death. It began "I am alive, but only just...". 2 years ago I visited his grave in Stellawood Cemetery, Durban. The first of my family who'd ever been able to visit him. God bless all those men.
Thank you for this great video. I've actually dived on the wreck of the Hermes, off of Batticaloa, in 2013. The ship rolled right over as she sank so all the flight deck etc is under the hull. Part of the bridge structure and the gun director tower lay to one side. Your video certainly brought back some memories for me.
Thanks for the video, from which I learned a couple of things I hadn't previously known. My late uncle, Able Seaman John Quinn, eldest of my father's four brothers, died when Hermes was sunk. In the late 1970s my father was in a Dunedin NZ fish & chip shop and noticed the owner had tattoos on his arms and a vinegar bottle on the counter, both signs together indicating Royal Navy. It turned out that he was a friend of John's and the last one to see him alive. He had glimpsed John and called to him, "Jump Quinny, jump," whereupon John moved more fully into view and shrugged with the one shoulder he had left, having just lost the other arm and shoulder to shrapnel when the bridge was hit. John had captained the fleet water polo team and was an excellent swimmer, but his injury was too serious and the waters were shark infested, hence the shrug. John was mentioned in dispatches for his part in the small boat night raid on Richeleau in Dakar harbour. He'd stowed the boat's ensign in his bag, and later left it with his fiancee in Capetown. Royal Naval tradition has ships retain an item belonging to the earlier ship of the same name, but when Hermes sank, there was nothing to hand on the later Hermes. In 1970, my father and I retrieved the ensign from Capetown, and presented it to the Royal Navy at Portsmouth. We were given a tour of HMS Victory, where I was asked to act as powder monkey in a demonstration of how the gunnery worked. HMS Victory was undergoing a refit at the time and the Royal Marine tour guide broke off a piece of one of the original oak gun deck timbers and told me to hide it up my jersey. When we got home to Manchester, my father made a show case and lined with HMS Victory postcards. I keep it in my office.
@@高茂原-f5h Mitsuo Fushida, the Japanese pilot leading the attack that killed my uncle, had also led the attack on Pearl Harbour four months earlier. At the end of the war he interviewed many returning Japanese prisoners of war, expecting to hear tales of allied atrocities, but instead found that Japanese prisoners had been treated well. Some spoke of Peggy Covell, whose Christian missionary parents had been murdered by the Japanese, but who worked with Japanese prisoners as a nurse and helper. He found and talked with her, and was profoundly affected by the forgiveness she showed. She explained that she forgave them because God had forgiven her in Christ. He later met Jacob DeSchazer, who had been taken prisoner after the Doolittle raid on Tokyo, and had been very badly treated. He had hated the Japanese but had been given a Bible. He read it, trusted Christ's payment on the cross for his sin, and became a missionary in Japan, leading an estimated 30,000 people to Christ, including Mitsuo Fushida, and they became the greatest of friends as brothers in Christ.
@@kevanquinn9559 What a coincidence, I just finished a model plane of Mitsuo and also HMS Hermes on which your uncle has ever served, also touched by the spirit of forgiveness shown after the war, do you want to take a look at the pics of HERMES I made and may your uncle rip
My dad, Leading Stoker Horace Gardner, was on the Hermes when it was attacked and sank in 1942. When the ship was attacked he was off watch and his battle station in this instance was to lead a fire party. This is probably why he survived as most, if not all, the on duty stokers unfortunately went down with the ship. My dad waited for the abandon ship order before he slid down the sloping flight deck into the water. He had been wounded by shrapnel during the attack and was lucky enough to be picked up by the hospital ship along with the other survivors as mentioned in the video. He spent two years in a naval hospital and lied about his fitness to return to sea duties. He later went on to serve on the Sylvia and the Hound. He was invalided out of the RN in 1948 and died in 2011. It was fantastic to see this video and see all the places in relationship to each other on the map that he had seen during his time on the ship. Thank you
Thanks for this. My Grandad was a Royal Marine on her when it sank. Met my Nan a South African from Cape Town after the collision. None of our massive family would be here if it was for the collision with HMS Corfu.
Another incredibly well detailed video, your time and effort researching and in production are highly appreciated. A sad end, clearly a big mistake leaving port losing shore bassd air cover, compounded by leaving without their own aircraft.
Hermes, the messenger of the gods, is the symbol of the Comrades Marathon, a 90 km foot race between Durban and Pietermaritzburg, South Africa. It began just after WW1 in memory of the comrades who had fought and died in WW1. It has great traditions and is highly recommended for athletes to claim as an achievement on their bucket list. One of the early and significant competitors in this race was Mr Raubenheimer, who by legend, was one of the gunners on HMS Hermes when it was sunk.
I served on this version of the Hermes in the '70s, but I thought that she was sold to the Pakistan navy who renamed her Virkaat, however wiki does say INS Viraat, so I am wrong.
Think I saw her in Kochi around 2009 +/- forget exactly when I was there for a telecoms job and went for a drive around with colleagues over the weekend, passed naval dock and thought a harrier carrier but did not realise which at the time.
The Northern Historian Channel is now my sole income and you can help support the channel by firing up the UA-cam Algorithm with 'Likes' & 'Comments'. You can now even 'buy me a beer' using the new 'THANKS' button below the viewing window. Cheers!
Great vid. How did I miss this one? I see that the desire to ram the enemy in the RN was so strong that Hermes rammed its own ships by mistake!! Great stuff.
The mysteries of the UA-cam algorithm! Do you have notifications turned on by pressing the bell icon? I have heard that YT doesn't always issue notifications.
@@TheNorthernHistorian I checked before commenting and yes I was subscibed and the ringing bell icon had been selected (last night on PC) This morning on reading your reply I ckecked again and lo and behold subscription was turned off! Work that out. I wish your channel all successs.
Hermes was once an ocean liner called RMS Zealandic, which was operated by the White Star Line, during WW2, he was disguised as the Hermes, i know this because i Google searched Zealandic, and i saw some pictures of the ocean liner as an aircraft carrier.
The Zealandic is an interesting story. She was purchased by the admiralty to be a decoy for HMS Hermes and disguised with flight deck and false island to resemble Hermes. She is not to be confused with the actual HMS Hermes though.
Probably like a CAC Wirraway aka no doubt terribly, Fulmars were outclassed by the A6M's like a lot of early allied frighters (naval/land based)/ stop gap fighters.
I never realised that Armstrong's, who built so many fine cruisers and early battleships, also built the worlds FIRST purpose built aircraft carrier. And a very fine looking ship too. Such a shame that this great yard was then immediately closed.....
I live on Tyneside and was born just a couple of miles down river at Wallsend. This yard was just one of many on the river and Armstrong's would continue through various guises.
@@nighthawkentertainment Hermes was the first ship to be designed as an aircraft carrier. Hosho was originally designed as a seaplane carrier. The design was modified in April, 1919, after Japanese observers had seen HMS Argus.
A weird little piece of trivia about the Hermes...when designed, she was provided for emergency conversion into a cruiser (In case the RN desperately needed a 25-knot CL?).
Brilliant. Cheers mate🙏 I am really enjoying your unbiased narrative, and especially the, in some cases, lesser known stories that are equally important as the others👍 and great for me, mainly British and commonwealth. Thanks again🙏
Funny on the topic of firsts the HMS Furious who was converted to carrier was also the first cruiser & last cruiser to carry an 18 inch cannon, now imagine if that ship wasn't converted an the thought of all the ships later on that could of carried 18 inch cannons. But no like the her halfsisters Furious was converted to carrier. Like many ships of this time period many of their feats are forgotten by most of the modern world.
She was the only warship ever built to carry an 18 inch guns (although the Japanese battleships Yamato and Musashi got close, carrying marginally bigger 18.11 inch guns)
When a pilot missed a landing, he'd have to throttle up the engine to go around. The *propeller*torque* would force the airplane to the left, it wouldn't be his choice.
Argus was never intended to be a carrier and was a converted ocean liner, having been requisitioned by the admiralty well into her construction. All carriers at this point were conversions. The premise of this video was that Hermes was the first carrier to be designed and built always as a carrier.
but your opinion is wrong :P just joking of course but it works fine as this way Hermes gets the notoriety of bing the first laid down and Hosho can say its first operational this way everyone gets some kind of prize lol
You have to wonder why the Brits were obsessed with biplanes and mono wings were not used until the Americans put them to shame with wildcats taking off from jeep carriers. You just didn't see spits and hawkers flying off carriers.
The Royal Navy was flying Hurricanes off carriers from 1941 and Spitfires from 1942. Take a look at the Supermarine Seafire and the Hawker Sea Hurricane.
You stated at the Naval Wing of the Royal flying corp. There was not and will never be such a thing the RFC and the RNAS (Royal Naval Air Service) were completely separate organizations. The RFC was part of the Army while the RNAS was part of the Navy. They were 100% separate organizations that merged in 1918 to form the RAF (A move that set back combined arms doctrine in the UK by at least 20 years). It is simply wrong to state the RNAS had anything to do with the RFC.
This is an excerpt from my research notes. The RFC originally came under the responsibility of Brigadier-General Henderson, the Director of Military Training, and had separate branches for the Army and the Navy. Major Sykes commanded the Military Wing[3] and Commander C R Samson commanded the Naval Wing.[4] The Royal Navy however, with different priorities to that of the Army and wishing to retain greater control over its aircraft, formally separated its branch and renamed it the Royal Naval Air Service on 1 July 1914, although a combined central flying school was retained. You are correct that the RNAS were never in the RFC but wrong to say that the Naval Wing was separate to the Army wing. Thanks for your comments.
@@TheNorthernHistorian while you are correct that they came under the directorship of military training you fail to understand the nature of the organisation and it's colorful history first point it and a common mistake it was not part of the army and was a joint service board part of the aerial subcommittee of the committee of imperial defence and was comprised with members of both forces as well as select politicians set up by Asquith in 1908 that just happened to have an army head at the time a precursor to the modern chief of the defence staff with even more infighting, this is important as it these committee meetings that after almost 4 years of discussion created the Royal warrant that set up the RFC in 1912. The Royal warrant of 1912 founding the RFC and replacing the pre-existing system where the Royal Engineers had Thier own air corp and the Navy had been gifted some planes by the Royal Aero Club and various other groups had a hodgepodge of aviation capabilities specifically stated the the Naval wing was a separate organisation from the Military wing and although part of the aerial subcommittee was not part of the RFC.This is often missed when looking into it and led to the a common misconception still found on Wikipedia and in many books etc is that it was part of the RFC, it simply wasn't and was funded completely by the Admiralty and reported to the Sea Lords this was part of a compromise arrangement set up after significant debate in the Arial subcommittee. Although the Navy did withdraw from the Aerial subcommittee and significantly restructure it's air asset's and become much more independent when Churchill became the political head of the Royal Navy as he believed the organisation did not reflect the needs of the senior service and he was very keen on expanding his personal powerbase at the expense of some of his cabinet colleagues as seen by the establishment of the Royal Naval Armoured Car Service with the joint flying school being kept open as a wartime expedient. You may want to check out the work of Dr Alexander Clarke on UA-cam his PHD paper was on naval aviation. The foundation of joint training facilities was part of the drive towards improved coordination as a result of the lessons of the Second Boar war and operations in Sudan and Egypt but led to many weird compromises. Even if you were correct that between 1912 and 1914 what was renamed RNAS was part of the RFC it would be highly disengenuous to credit that organisation for ship borne aviation that did not start until later after the withdrawal and restructuring with the first sea plane tenders of the RN not being requisitioned until after the split let alone converted and pressed into service and the idea of flat deck carriers not coming until later still.
@@jonsouth1545 You clearly know your facts but you need to work on the tone of your presentation as you come across as someone who just likes to point out mistakes and it turns folks off from learning from your knowledge base. It’s negative sounding. NH has done a really good job and just throwing bottles from the back and trying to be ‘on the right’ isn’t helping anyone. NH is a big lad and I’m sure he can handle criticism and I’m sure you don’t mean to come over like that which is why I thought I’d mention it.
The Hermes ! And the Eagle ! May have been attacked by the Japanese ! But Japan ! Had there Carriers ! Attacked ! At ! Midway !! ( Because of it !! ) Northern Historian !
It may not have been an officially 'declared' war but against the definition of war, noun or verb, it most definitely was a war. One thing it most definitely was not was an exercise. Appreciate your comment and viewpoint.
My great uncle Roy Wilgress was a stoker on the HMS Hermes. He escaped the attack but DOW on a South African hospital ship in the pacific. His last letter is a family heirloom, that was received after my great grandmother had news of his death. It began "I am alive, but only just...". 2 years ago I visited his grave in Stellawood Cemetery, Durban. The first of my family who'd ever been able to visit him. God bless all those men.
Thank you for this great video. I've actually dived on the wreck of the Hermes, off of Batticaloa, in 2013. The ship rolled right over as she sank so all the flight deck etc is under the hull. Part of the bridge structure and the gun director tower lay to one side. Your video certainly brought back some memories for me.
Thank you for covering the history of this ship, whose contribution to the war effort is not always appreciated.
You're welcome!
Thanks for the video, from which I learned a couple of things I hadn't previously known. My late uncle, Able Seaman John Quinn, eldest of my father's four brothers, died when Hermes was sunk. In the late 1970s my father was in a Dunedin NZ fish & chip shop and noticed the owner had tattoos on his arms and a vinegar bottle on the counter, both signs together indicating Royal Navy. It turned out that he was a friend of John's and the last one to see him alive. He had glimpsed John and called to him, "Jump Quinny, jump," whereupon John moved more fully into view and shrugged with the one shoulder he had left, having just lost the other arm and shoulder to shrapnel when the bridge was hit. John had captained the fleet water polo team and was an excellent swimmer, but his injury was too serious and the waters were shark infested, hence the shrug. John was mentioned in dispatches for his part in the small boat night raid on Richeleau in Dakar harbour. He'd stowed the boat's ensign in his bag, and later left it with his fiancee in Capetown. Royal Naval tradition has ships retain an item belonging to the earlier ship of the same name, but when Hermes sank, there was nothing to hand on the later Hermes. In 1970, my father and I retrieved the ensign from Capetown, and presented it to the Royal Navy at Portsmouth. We were given a tour of HMS Victory, where I was asked to act as powder monkey in a demonstration of how the gunnery worked. HMS Victory was undergoing a refit at the time and the Royal Marine tour guide broke off a piece of one of the original oak gun deck timbers and told me to hide it up my jersey. When we got home to Manchester, my father made a show case and lined with HMS Victory postcards. I keep it in my office.
Thanks very much for this fascinating and tragic insight into your late Uncle.
Miracle
@@高茂原-f5h Mitsuo Fushida, the Japanese pilot leading the attack that killed my uncle, had also led the attack on Pearl Harbour four months earlier. At the end of the war he interviewed many returning Japanese prisoners of war, expecting to hear tales of allied atrocities, but instead found that Japanese prisoners had been treated well. Some spoke of Peggy Covell, whose Christian missionary parents had been murdered by the Japanese, but who worked with Japanese prisoners as a nurse and helper. He found and talked with her, and was profoundly affected by the forgiveness she showed. She explained that she forgave them because God had forgiven her in Christ. He later met Jacob DeSchazer, who had been taken prisoner after the Doolittle raid on Tokyo, and had been very badly treated. He had hated the Japanese but had been given a Bible. He read it, trusted Christ's payment on the cross for his sin, and became a missionary in Japan, leading an estimated 30,000 people to Christ, including Mitsuo Fushida, and they became the greatest of friends as brothers in Christ.
@@kevanquinn9559 What a coincidence, I just finished a model plane of Mitsuo and also HMS Hermes on which your uncle has ever served, also touched by the spirit of forgiveness shown after the war, do you want to take a look at the pics of HERMES I made and may your uncle rip
Brilliant story & thank you for sharing.
HMS Hermes was also the first aircraft carrier to be sunk by aircraft from another aircraft carrier.
My dad, Leading Stoker Horace Gardner, was on the Hermes when it was attacked and sank in 1942. When the ship was attacked he was off watch and his battle station in this instance was to lead a fire party. This is probably why he survived as most, if not all, the on duty stokers unfortunately went down with the ship. My dad waited for the abandon ship order before he slid down the sloping flight deck into the water. He had been wounded by shrapnel during the attack and was lucky enough to be picked up by the hospital ship along with the other survivors as mentioned in the video. He spent two years in a naval hospital and lied about his fitness to return to sea duties. He later went on to serve on the Sylvia and the Hound. He was invalided out of the RN in 1948 and died in 2011.
It was fantastic to see this video and see all the places in relationship to each other on the map that he had seen during his time on the ship. Thank you
A beautiful looking ship, and a valuable and varied long life; thanks for her history.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for this. My Grandad was a Royal Marine on her when it sank. Met my Nan a South African from Cape Town after the collision. None of our massive family would be here if it was for the collision with HMS Corfu.
Another incredibly well detailed video, your time and effort researching and in production are highly appreciated. A sad end, clearly a big mistake leaving port losing shore bassd air cover, compounded by leaving without their own aircraft.
Thank you very much!
Spent two and a half years in Hong Kong early eighties with the military, would have loved to see it in the 30's.
Very interesting. Just a minor point 26.2 knots is 30.150 mph or 48.554 kmh. (I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before).
Thanks for the correction Bob, you are indeed correct. A glaring oversight on my part.
Hermes, the messenger of the gods, is the symbol of the Comrades Marathon, a 90 km foot race between Durban and Pietermaritzburg, South Africa. It began just after WW1 in memory of the comrades who had fought and died in WW1. It has great traditions and is highly recommended for athletes to claim as an achievement on their bucket list. One of the early and significant competitors in this race was Mr Raubenheimer, who by legend, was one of the gunners on HMS Hermes when it was sunk.
Thanks for this video and it was an eye opening facts about the mighty of Her Majesty's Navy.
The successor HMS Hermes R12 served in our indian Navy as INS Viraat from 1987 to 2017
I served on this version of the Hermes in the '70s, but I thought that she was sold to the Pakistan navy who renamed her Virkaat, however wiki does say INS Viraat, so I am wrong.
Think I saw her in Kochi around 2009 +/- forget exactly when I was there for a telecoms job and went for a drive around with colleagues over the weekend, passed naval dock and thought a harrier carrier but did not realise which at the time.
The Northern Historian Channel is now my sole income and you can help support the channel by firing up the UA-cam Algorithm with 'Likes' & 'Comments'. You can now even 'buy me a beer' using the new 'THANKS' button below the viewing window. Cheers!
Great video, great help to my model making of HMS Hermes
Glad it helped!
@@TheNorthernHistorian Sadly I can’t send you the pics, it’s almost finished.
Great vid. How did I miss this one? I see that the desire to ram the enemy in the RN was so strong that Hermes rammed its own ships by mistake!!
Great stuff.
Brilliant 👍🏿.
Another great piece of history. Well presented.
As usual a good story well told. Thank you. FYI UA-cam gave me no notification on this one. I hope I am the only one.
The mysteries of the UA-cam algorithm! Do you have notifications turned on by pressing the bell icon? I have heard that YT doesn't always issue notifications.
@@TheNorthernHistorian I checked before commenting and yes I was subscibed and the ringing bell icon had been selected (last night on PC) This morning on reading your reply I ckecked again and lo and behold subscription was turned off! Work that out. I wish your channel all successs.
Thank you so much for the video
Great video love a bit of history.
Glad you enjoyed it
HMS Hermes was planned 1st, built 1st and launched 1st so for me she is the 1st. Hosho was planned later built later and only entered service 1st.
Hms dreadnought, hms invincible, first troppdo boat, first destroyer
Absolutely fascinating!!!
Thanks.
Thank you
You're welcome
Hermes was once an ocean liner called RMS Zealandic, which was operated by the White Star Line, during WW2, he was disguised as the Hermes, i know this because i Google searched Zealandic, and i saw some pictures of the ocean liner as an aircraft carrier.
The Zealandic is an interesting story. She was purchased by the admiralty to be a decoy for HMS Hermes and disguised with flight deck and false island to resemble Hermes. She is not to be confused with the actual HMS Hermes though.
Excellent video.
Thank you very much!
I wonder how the Fulmar made out with the A6M Zero? Maybe they encountered difficulties.
Seafire was available, a navalised Mk Vc Spitfire, but 2 months later.
Not well would likely be more than a little understated.
Probably like a CAC Wirraway aka no doubt terribly, Fulmars were outclassed by the A6M's like a lot of early allied frighters (naval/land based)/ stop gap fighters.
Another great video, thanks mate!
Glad you enjoyed it
Fascinating.
from groundbreaking to obsolescence and all of that in a mere 20 years
I never realised that Armstrong's, who built so many fine cruisers and early battleships, also built the worlds FIRST purpose built aircraft carrier. And a very fine looking ship too. Such a shame that this great yard was then immediately closed.....
I live on Tyneside and was born just a couple of miles down river at Wallsend. This yard was just one of many on the river and Armstrong's would continue through various guises.
Its the second built. The first one was Hosho.
@@nighthawkentertainment Hermes was the first ship to be designed as an aircraft carrier. Hosho was originally designed as a seaplane carrier. The design was modified in April, 1919, after Japanese observers had seen HMS Argus.
A weird little piece of trivia about the Hermes...when designed, she was provided for emergency conversion into a cruiser (In case the RN desperately needed a 25-knot CL?).
Why this extremely high mast / gun director tower? For a handful of medium guns? Must have made the ship top heavy and roll as hell
Brilliant. Cheers mate🙏 I am really enjoying your unbiased narrative, and especially the, in some cases, lesser known stories that are equally important as the others👍 and great for me, mainly British and commonwealth. Thanks again🙏
Much appreciated!
Great video, well done 👍.
Thank you! Cheers!
When you're inventing a class of vessel you're not going to make the best one. Nice vid.
Very true!
What a sad loss. Had she stayed in port, she might have been refloated.
ExcellentVideo
Thank you very much!
Damn shame she was sunk by the Japanese but it was a wake-up call that the IJN was not to be underestimated.
Funny on the topic of firsts the HMS Furious who was converted to carrier was also the first cruiser & last cruiser to carry an 18 inch cannon, now imagine if that ship wasn't converted an the thought of all the ships later on that could of carried 18 inch cannons. But no like the her halfsisters Furious was converted to carrier.
Like many ships of this time period many of their feats are forgotten by most of the modern world.
Furious would have carried two 18 inch guns. The likelihood of her even registering a target would have been remote.
She was the only warship ever built to carry an 18 inch guns (although the Japanese battleships Yamato and Musashi got close, carrying marginally bigger 18.11 inch guns)
Brill! 😊
When a pilot missed a landing, he'd have to throttle up the engine to go around. The *propeller*torque* would force the airplane to the left, it wouldn't be his choice.
Is Tony Robinson the narrator?????
No, I'm not Tony Robinson 😀
why wasnt Hermes attached to force z -she could have provided fighter cover for force z after the loss of the formidable
She was slower than Repulse and Prince of Wales, so would have been a liability.
She was slower than both, and in addition her air group at the time consisted of twelve Fairey Swordfish.
Was hms Argus not the first aircraft carrier
Argus was never intended to be a carrier and was a converted ocean liner, having been requisitioned by the admiralty well into her construction. All carriers at this point were conversions. The premise of this video was that Hermes was the first carrier to be designed and built always as a carrier.
IJN Hōshō being finished first and starting operations first is more deciding IMHO.
I do tend to agree with you. I feel it could be a hot topic, Hermes was in the water first, but Hosho was out to sea first!
but your opinion is wrong :P
just joking of course but it works fine as this way Hermes gets the notoriety of bing the first laid down and Hosho can say its first operational this way everyone gets some kind of prize lol
What's your opinion Mike? Hermes or Hosho?
@@mikepette4422 yeah, that's a good way to remember these ships.
You have to wonder why the Brits were obsessed with biplanes and mono wings were not used until the Americans put them to shame with wildcats taking off from jeep carriers. You just didn't see spits and hawkers flying off carriers.
The Royal Navy was flying Hurricanes off carriers from 1941 and Spitfires from 1942. Take a look at the Supermarine Seafire and the Hawker Sea Hurricane.
You stated at the Naval Wing of the Royal flying corp. There was not and will never be such a thing the RFC and the RNAS (Royal Naval Air Service) were completely separate organizations. The RFC was part of the Army while the RNAS was part of the Navy. They were 100% separate organizations that merged in 1918 to form the RAF (A move that set back combined arms doctrine in the UK by at least 20 years). It is simply wrong to state the RNAS had anything to do with the RFC.
This is an excerpt from my research notes. The RFC originally came under the responsibility of Brigadier-General Henderson, the Director of Military Training, and had separate branches for the Army and the Navy. Major Sykes commanded the Military Wing[3] and Commander C R Samson commanded the Naval Wing.[4] The Royal Navy however, with different priorities to that of the Army and wishing to retain greater control over its aircraft, formally separated its branch and renamed it the Royal Naval Air Service on 1 July 1914, although a combined central flying school was retained. You are correct that the RNAS were never in the RFC but wrong to say that the Naval Wing was separate to the Army wing. Thanks for your comments.
@@TheNorthernHistorian while you are correct that they came under the directorship of military training you fail to understand the nature of the organisation and it's colorful history first point it and a common mistake it was not part of the army and was a joint service board part of the aerial subcommittee of the committee of imperial defence and was comprised with members of both forces as well as select politicians set up by Asquith in 1908 that just happened to have an army head at the time a precursor to the modern chief of the defence staff with even more infighting, this is important as it these committee meetings that after almost 4 years of discussion created the Royal warrant that set up the RFC in 1912. The Royal warrant of 1912 founding the RFC and replacing the pre-existing system where the Royal Engineers had Thier own air corp and the Navy had been gifted some planes by the Royal Aero Club and various other groups had a hodgepodge of aviation capabilities specifically stated the the Naval wing was a separate organisation from the Military wing and although part of the aerial subcommittee was not part of the RFC.This is often missed when looking into it and led to the a common misconception still found on Wikipedia and in many books etc is that it was part of the RFC, it simply wasn't and was funded completely by the Admiralty and reported to the Sea Lords this was part of a compromise arrangement set up after significant debate in the Arial subcommittee. Although the Navy did withdraw from the Aerial subcommittee and significantly restructure it's air asset's and become much more independent when Churchill became the political head of the Royal Navy as he believed the organisation did not reflect the needs of the senior service and he was very keen on expanding his personal powerbase at the expense of some of his cabinet colleagues as seen by the establishment of the Royal Naval Armoured Car Service with the joint flying school being kept open as a wartime expedient. You may want to check out the work of Dr Alexander Clarke on UA-cam his PHD paper was on naval aviation. The foundation of joint training facilities was part of the drive towards improved coordination as a result of the lessons of the Second Boar war and operations in Sudan and Egypt but led to many weird compromises. Even if you were correct that between 1912 and 1914 what was renamed RNAS was part of the RFC it would be highly disengenuous to credit that organisation for ship borne aviation that did not start until later after the withdrawal and restructuring with the first sea plane tenders of the RN not being requisitioned until after the split let alone converted and pressed into service and the idea of flat deck carriers not coming until later still.
@@jonsouth1545 You clearly know your facts but you need to work on the tone of your presentation as you come across as someone who just likes to point out mistakes and it turns folks off from learning from your knowledge base. It’s negative sounding. NH has done a really good job and just throwing bottles from the back and trying to be ‘on the right’ isn’t helping anyone. NH is a big lad and I’m sure he can handle criticism and I’m sure you don’t mean to come over like that which is why I thought I’d mention it.
The Hermes ! And the Eagle ! May have been attacked by the Japanese ! But Japan ! Had there Carriers ! Attacked ! At ! Midway !! ( Because of it !! ) Northern Historian !
Could you imagine if the FAA had had a decent fighters a better fighter deployment plan. The hermes might have survived longer
Hermes ...Thought you were talking about the thieving scum courier company.....
Errrm, the Falkland events of 1982 were never declared as a war. A friend who took part calls them 'South Atlantic exercises'.
It may not have been an officially 'declared' war but against the definition of war, noun or verb, it most definitely was a war. One thing it most definitely was not was an exercise. Appreciate your comment and viewpoint.
@@TheNorthernHistorian As a Falklands veteran, ( HMS Glamorgan ) I can confirm it was a shooting war.
Seems like a repeat of History