Pentecostal vs Charismatic: 5 Differences
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- No, they're not the same. Let's look at a few differences.
Chapters:
00:00 History of Pentecostals and Charismatics
02:13 Pentecostal and Charismatic Denominations
02:36 Baptism with the Holy Spirit
04:30 Soteriology
05:53 Women in Ministry
06:48 Eschatology
07:46 Openness to Liturgy
As always, thanks for the great videos. I’m a Pentecostal pastor. Grew up in Spirit filled churches my entire life. That being said, like EVERY movement/denomination there is the crazies that gives the rest a bad name. I do pray in tongues, we do believe in divine healings (have seen it often). BUT a Jesus loving, word preaching church that isn’t Pentecostal is just as saved as me. They are my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I’d rather my congregation bear the FRUITS of the Spirit more than the GIFTS of the Spirit. Because they can pray in tongues all they want but if they don’t love their brother, they are missing it.
Grateful for my early years as a Pentecostal. For one reason especially. The evil of eternal security was taught. Repentance was important.
For that they will always have my respect.
Appreciate your loving and ecumenical spirit. Comments, like yours, renew my faith in the success of the Christian community!
Debunking catholicism
I'm more blessed than mary
Proof = Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
In Luke 11:27 that random woman LITERALLY said Jesus your mother is Blessed, but are Lord Jesus LITERALLY said Believers are more Blessed than mary. Amen and Amen
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CHRIST alone
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
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Work of God =
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
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1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach
Paul allows bishops to get marry, but catholic church goes against paul.
Now these catholic will give a Verses from 1 Corinthians7 to say that paul gave the advice to stay unmarried. But they will not tell you that the same chapter they quote says 1 Corinthians 7:28 "even if you do marry, you have not SINNED". The passage literally says "young women, young men" and a bishop is supposed to be a Church ELDER. Mic drop
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Jesus said Matthew 23:9
9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
And also said Holy Father to Heavenly Father= John 17:11
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
Jesus said call no one Father but still catholics call *pope holy father.
Sad
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Whenever a catholic argue about mary being the mother of God
Use this to defeat the argument.
Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Matthew 12:46-50
46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”.
Mark 3:35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”
John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. ( Jesus basically said John is the son of mary, and mary is the mother of John from that time onwards).
By the way sarah is the mother of all proof=Galatians 4:21-26.
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We should not pray to apostles
Romans 1:25
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Acts 10:25-26
25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”
Acts 14:15
15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,
Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Revelation 22:8-9
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."
Colossians 2:18
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
You cannot go to Father through saints nor mary, you can only go to the Father through Lord Jesus Christ= John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Holy Spirit intercedes for us=Romans 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And CHRIST as well=Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:25
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
It's Christ and Holy Spirit who intercedes for us not apostles
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There is only one Mediator between God and men LORD Jesus Christ= 1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
Hebrew 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrew 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrew 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
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Apostles are allowed to marry,
1 Corinthians 9:1-5
1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
If Peter (peter is cephas read John 1:42) the so called "first pope" was married, why does the catholic church doesn't allow "pope" to marry?
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The so called vicar of christ/ pope/holy father Peter called himself a fellow elder in 1 Peter 5:1, and as per the qualifications of elder in Titus 1:5-9 the elder is allowed to get married; then why does the "pope" is required to be celibate and catholic? ( when Peter was neither celibate nor catholic).
1)Peter was not perfect human nor was he a perfect disciple
2)He sank down while walking on water
3)Our Lord said to peter get behind me satan
4)Peter reject our Lord 3 times
5)Our Lord rebuked Peter for calling fire from heaven
6)Our Lord rebuked Peter when he cut of the soilders ear
7)Paul rebuked Peter for being hypocrite because he was acting different in front of Jews and different in front of gentiles.
8) Moses messed up, and he was a important part of Bible ( that's why he never entered the promised land),
9)David messed up ( and he has the Holy Spirit),
10)King Soloman messed up,
11) Saul messed up and God regretted the decision (1 Samuel 15:10-11).
Hatrick (Saul then David then Soloman back to back messed up)
12)The apostles run away a day before Lord Jesus got locked up.
13)The early church messed up Rev 2:18-20
14) Apostle John when receiving Revelation worshiped an angel and the angel said "see you do not do that. Worship GOD" Revelation 22:8-9
If these great people could mess up, why do you think the catholic church wouldn't mess up.
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Galatians 4:21-26
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children- 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Sarah is mother of all, Not mary.
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Also the Church has many name like Christians, Evangelists, Children of God, Believers, servents of God, bride of Christ, but not once the Church is called catholics.
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Also, if the apostles didn't wrote it, I don't want it.
@@mynameis......23 You realize we have a coherent and logical answer for every single verse you put here?
@@mynameis......23 :
Catholics have been hearing these same, tired old arguments for years, time after time.
Yes, there is a clear explanation for each one.
Do you really want to know it?
the complete dispassion with which you break these things down is highly admirable. It's very tempting to interject ones own opinion, and I have literally no idea what you think or feel about the facts you are presenting. Bravo.
Joshua has identified himself more than once as a Fundamental Baptist Temple Christian. Yes, admirable that he just reports the facts, knowing where he stands.
Josh does a superb job of being unbiassed. I have watched a lot of his videos, & I still have no clue what his own Church affiliation is.
Never apologize for "getting all theological" here.
agreed, it kind of bugs me, when Christian channels apologize for using Christian vernacular. It should be the expectation. It would be wierd if a finance channel apologized for using words like "dividends" and such
I watched a few of your videos now but I just really enjoy the way that you unbiasedly give out the facts and information thank you brother
Thanks for letting me know, glad to have you as a viewer!
@ReadyToHarvest please do a video on Witness Lee's Local Church
"I may not believe once saved always saved, but I also do not believe once saved easily lost." - Jack Hayford
Can you be 'unborn'? Peter 1:5 We are kept by the power of God. There is no greater power!
*LOVE* Jack Hayford. 👍
@@elmerfudd1883yes becuz ur not born
Ur saved
It’s LIKE a birth
It’s def not a birth, it’s a metaphor
One of the meanings Strong’s gives is delivered of. For demon deliverance they can def come back. Worse than the first time the Bible says!
@@YeshuaKingMessiah John 3:3 Jesus answered Nicodemus: Surely I say to you, "Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he CANNOT see the kingdom of God. NO EXCEPTIONS!
“If you could lose you salvation, you would”
- a wise man and humble man
I grew up in a non-denominational, hyper-charismatic environment where outbreaks of tongues and faith healings were extremely common and church was more about "feeling" the Holy Spirit than being edified by it. I stopped identifying with that kind of belief system years ago, but I erroneously let myself believe that Pentecostals in general were like that. Thankfully, I've since learned that even most charismatics, let alone Pentecostals, would not really find what I experienced to be appropriate and have begun looking at them more charitably again (though I doubt I'll ever become either). I've still often been confused about what exactly was different between the two camps, and this video helped out a great deal. Thanks again for another informative video trying to map out our complex family tree.
I grew up in an evangelical church and have moved though several denominations in my faith journey. Whatever your theology or denomination I hope you have retained your basic Christian faith. Thanks for your comment.
You may be comfortable in denominations like The Church of the Nazarene or The Wesleyan Church. These do not practice tongues, avoid the emotionalism you're talking about, yet mirror all other points of teaching that Pentecostals embrace. This is why my wife and I started going to a Nazarene church a few years ago.
@@jeanenviedapprendre It’s funny that you mentioned specifically those two because I’m actually now a Methodist.
@@cybercrash7 Glad you found a good place to worship brother! Be what your church needs, even if things seem to go south someday.
Benny hinn, clefo dollar, jimmy swaggart, Kenneth Copeland , Joel Osteen, Joseph prince, border line TD Jakes , T L Osborne, Mario Murillo, oral Roberts, Carlton Pearson, AA Allen, Robert tillton, Rob parsley, RW shamburk David Wilkerson , Nicky Cruz, and others charismatics
Thank you for taking the time to make and post this video, I am 58yrs old born and raised in the Pentecostal church. With that being said... I've come to understand that when its over and we walk through pearly gates, ALL of the different Christ believing denominations and theologies will realize that no church had it 100% right. We all have something misconstrued about GODS plan. The key is believing on Christ and repentance.
I agree with you, I listen to some great eastern orthodox preachers but they say they are the true Church which I disagree with. It doesn't stop me from listening to their preaching though
The beginning of the Pentecostal movement can be traced back to the Second Great Awakening and back to the First Awakening and the Wesleyan Revival. That is why Pentecostals are usually very much disciples of John Wesley in terms of their fundamental theology.
A very interesting note is that Salvation Army, begun by William Booth, also came from the Wesleyan stream and in its early days they have much revival and acts of the Spirit in their meetings as well.
Today I think most people would place the beginning of the Pentecostal movement from the 1906 Azusa Street Revival. But I think all the different waves of revival at the beginning of the 20th century, such as the 1904 Welsh Revival, were movements of God that eventually brought about the Pentecostal movements and many more revivals in the 20th century.
And as in all the movements of God, we see the enemy's counter-movements, or fake movements. So many of today's so called hyper-charismatic movements are doing many things that are not Biblical. They moved away from the foundation of the Word of God and introduced many non-biblical practices. These are the counterfeits and they damaged the reputation of all the Spirit-filled churches and drove Christians away from seeking the true power, gifts and manifestation of the Spirit. But it is really important that we do not reject the Holy Spirit based on the errors of some people who claimed to be filled by the Spirit.
In the U.K. where I reside, the chief impetus for the rise of British pentecostalism was the Welsh Revival 1904-05. The Arminian Wesleyan influence has been much less pronounced than in the States and pentecostal pioneers over here tended to come from Baptist, Brethren, Congregational, Presbyterian and evangelical Anglican backgrounds. Hence, it has not been uncommon at all for British pentecostals to affirm eternal security of the Christian believer and some even being full blown conscious Calvinists. This can be seen clearly in the Elim churches particularly in Scotland and the North of Ireland. Also, in not a few independent gatherings with no denominational affiliation.
Church of God (Cleveland, TN) claims Holy Spirit miraculous experiences from the 1890s, predating Azusa Street. These experiences would have happened in eastern Tennessee and western North Carolina and spread from there. Their smaller impact was overshadowed by Azusa Street and its tainted legacy.
Charles Parham started the Pentecostal movement
Charles Parham is kind of the 'founder' of Pentecostalism in that he oversaw the revival at Topeka, Kansas in 1901, which is seen as the birth of Pentecostalism in America. Parham would eventually be kicked out of the movement he created though.
William J. Seymour is more commonly seen as the founder of Pentecostalism. He was a one-eyed black man, the son of former slaves, who had spent his life travelling across America trying to find scattered relatives, and got involved in a lot of different churches and traditions as he travelled. He eventually came under the teaching and influence of Charles Parham, who was kind of a mentor to him. Parham and Seymour would have identified with the Holiness Tradition, which in turn goes back to the Wesleyan tradition.
Seymour travelled by himself to LA to teach at a Holiness congregation. He was excited to teach the Pentecostal view, though he himself had not yet experienced spirit baptism, and Parham actually discouraged him from going. He taught on Acts 2 at the Holiness church there for weeks until the woman pastor of that congregation realised he was teaching Pentecostalism, and kicked him out.
Seymour came to be teaching a gathering of people elsewhere, and teaching on Acts 2, a woman in the congregation began to experience baptism in the Spirit, and then Seymour, and then others. They eventually ended up meeting in an old warehouse on Azusa Street, and this was where the Azusa Street Revival broke out in 1906.
It's said that the 1901 Topeka Revival was the birth of Pentecostalism in America and the 1906 Azusa Street Revival was the birth of Pentecostalism worldwide.
Also going on at the same time was the 1904 Welsh Revival, and teachers would go back and fore between the two, leading to cross-pollination between the Welsh Revival and that at Azusa Street. The result was the major Welsh Pentecostal denominations, such as the Apostolic Church (not related to the American Oneness denomination of the same name) or the Elim Church.
These first Pentecostals were essentially Holiness Christians with Pentecostal doctrine, and the first Pentecostal denomination was the Apostolic Faith.
But plenty of those with a Baptist background came to Azusa Street too and ended up becoming Pentecostal. They formed a new kind of Pentecostalism, which instead of being Holiness with Pentecostal doctrine, was Baptist with Pentecostal doctrine. These more Baptist type Pentecostals became the dominant group, and the largest denominations come from them. Assemblies of God are an example of a denomination that came from them.
No traced back to Acts 2
I found this quite interesting. I'm Baptist, and have been all my life. Even though I am neither Pentecostal nor Charismatic, I have a lot of respect for the Assemblies of God and Calvary Chapel. I hadn't heard a lot of people refer to Calvary Chapel as charismatic, though by the definition in this video, I can see how they could be. This video corrected my view of what constitutes a charismatic church. In my experience (for what that's worth) the churches that call themselves Pentecostal are a little more grounded, and the "charismatic" churches are more wild and unbridled (which is why I hadn't lumped Calvary Chapel or some of the other groups mentioned in this video with them, since they are very biblical and orderly). When I was a teenager, I was invited to a youth event at a charismatic church by some of my friends who attended said church. It was very strange. A dog outside barked, and a woman there shouted at the dog, "I rebuke you!" As if the dog were possessed! They weren't allowed to disagree with their pastor, because he was "God's anointed," and they claimed he was an Apostle and Prophet. He used this to put himself above accountability, and could do whatever he wanted. Everyone associated with that church gave each other prophecies all the time, which were really just manipulative statements that they claimed were from God, and so the listener wasn't allowed to disagree with it. They were all into one-upping each other with their prophecies. They spiritualized their manipulation. One woman told me, "God told me a secret about you!" The men in this church were held in very high esteem, and were extremely belittling to women. I'm a conservative Baptist, so I don't say this as a feminist at all, but their pastor was totally sexist. His "prophecies" were often anti-women, things such as, "Women don't know how to think!" I found my limited experiences with these friends at this charismatic church to be cult-like and abusive. That is why I tend to see the word charismatic as referring to insane, culty churches with no grounding or system of theology. Groups like the Assemblies of God might have some points I disagree with, but I respect their commitment to the Lord, and their steadfastness in what they have concluded to be the truth on these doctrines. I have always considered these churches to be Pentecostal. I would know what to expect going into such a church. With this abusive charismatic group I mentioned, there are no rules. No specific beliefs they hold to. They just believe whatever new prophecy their leaders give. And they very proudly wore the title of charismatic. So that was how I thought of charismatics. This video was very interesting, and gave me a broader view of the word.
Most Charismatic churches aren't like that. Most are non denominational and certainly have their flaws, but that church sounds like a one- off.
ua-cam.com/video/mOYfhvP4n_0/v-deo.html
As a Pentecostal, I say thank you for what you said. However, I can't agree with you on Calvary Chapel. They are very much like the charismatic church you described. Their founder, Chuck Smith, split from the Four Square church and was exactly as you described.
Sounds like you visited a New Apostolic Reformation-type church. They're into Apostles (authoritarian rulers above accountability) and Prophets (those receiving direct revelation from God) ... check out the book Counterfeit Kingdom.
@@nathanwatson1915 The NAR has infected virtually all types of Charismatic and Pentecostal churches. I can definitely see their influence in Vineyard and AoG churches in my area.
From a Pentecostal, thank you. People seem to think we are the same
So interesting 🤔 I always thought pentecostal and charismatic were synonyms.
I learned a lot in a short time from this video, thanks 😊
I am pentecostal. Historically we consider charismatics as water-down worldly folks.
When I saw the title of this video, I realized I didn't have the faintest idea of how people who call themselves pentecostal or charismatic define those terms. So I asked my wife. She was able to give me some suggestions based on her perceptions but she admitted that she, too, didn't know how anyone else might make that distinction. Bottom line: Thanks for helping us to better understand people who call themselves pentecostal or charismatic.
Pentecostal aren't as prone to "get rich quick by sending me money" as Charismanaic churches are.
Pentecostals believe in Jesus Name baptism Acts 2:38 and Charismatics follow the false trinitarian doctrine that the catholic church and pagans made up in the 2nd century when they started baptizing people in titles father son holy spirit instead of in the Name of Jesus Oneness Pentecostals follow the Apostles Doctrine charismatics don't Oneness Pentecostals believe in the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues I'm not sure about the charismatics Oneness Pentecostals believe in the 5 fold ministry and the gifts of the Spirit and I'm not sure about charismatics Oneness Pentecostals believe in living holy and righteous different from the world by the way we walk, talk, act, live and even dress and the charismatic churches don't they live worldly and blend in right in with the world Oneness Pentecostals because we have the Holy Spirit living inside of us aka God Himself lives inside of us we stand like a light in this world we shine like a Light on Top of a hill
@@aChild-of-God1006 Your explantation is probably helpful as it stands. It will be even more helpful if somone you consider to be "Charismatic" explains this from that point of view. Many people think of the protestant reformation as having occured in the sixteenth century. I think of the reformation as having begun before that, made rapid progess in the sixteenth century and continued in the seventeenth, eighteeth and nineteenth centuries. I think we should be searching our Bibles for additional reforms to adopt but I don't pretend to know what those reforms should be. I have trouble identifying with any person or group who think of themselves as having already arrived at the pinicle of spiritual progress.
@@aChild-of-God1006 Jesus Himself requests for baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28 19, He's gotta trump anything in acts becaue He had already ascended at that point
@@aChild-of-God1006 Every Pentecostal baptism I've attended baptized in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.
I grew up Catholic.After my baptism in the Holy Spirit, all my religion turned into relationship.The spiritual gifts that I received have grown so that even I am ble to pray for the sick, the y were healed.I try now to show how much God loves us,way beyond our knowledge or imagination. God is now the very centre of my everyday living.
I am now an employed director of music at a Charismatic Episcopal Church (thank you for your video on them!) but was raised in a Charismatic Lutheran (LCMS) Church. Apparently, there was a renewal movement within the LCMS called "Renewal in Missouri," which my former Pastor, Raymond Cummings, was one of the founders. I would love to hear about these Charismatic movements within established denominations, I know other denominations experienced similar movements. I'm a big fan of your channel and will continue to share it, thank you! - Chris
This is another grand slam! Great info. Please keep up the great work!!
Thank you for your fair and very objective commentaries! It's quite refreshing not to have to endure alot of vitriol as is common among so many teachers on utube. I was raised in a Pentecostal movement, and later exposed to Charasmatic churches,and have long held that there are some real distinctions between the two,but many of my acquaintances do not see it that way. In my 48 years of knowing the Lord, I have been a faithful member of Pentecostal or Baptist assemblies,( a strange situation, I know!) But this is reflective of my desire to love all saved believers, and not be bound by labels.
Another, huge difference is educational requirements. Charismatic churches were mostly founded by lay people with pastors who often left secular jobs. And loved and studied the bible but never had rigorous formal degrees in it. Pentecostal I don't think you would ever find pastors or ministers without formal bible degrees from accredited schools. Bible school degrees are much more common now but its still widely acceptable to be in mission and church pastoral staff without this formal biblical certification in many Charismatic organizations.
Didn't biblical literalism begin because pentacostals didn't have enough preachers with formal education?
Thank you, Professor Joshua. I grew up in a fairly "mainline" so-called Protestant church of the Alexander Campbell tradition (Restoration). I recall that evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit was marked by attitudes and behaviors, rather than signs and wonders. In 1972 I attended a Bible college being swept by the Charismatic movement. It seemed odd to me that a dear brother in Christ felt it necessary to "teach" me how to "speak in tongues" if this was one of many fruits of the Gift of the Holy Spirit. You have helped clarify these branches of belief. Thank you. Blessings.
Thanks Donald, so glad that my videos have interested you. I apprecate it!
Thanks so much for this brother, I’ve been looking for awhile for something like this to highlight the differences, blessings and thank you 😃
Thanks for letting me know, glad you liked it!
This is a great summary on these two denominations/movements 👏 I would like to suggest further discussion on the Charismatic movement in both Roman Catholicism (Catholic Charismatic Renewal) and Eastern Orthodoxy (e.g., Orthodox Spiritual Renewal, St. Symeon society, Fr. Eusebius Stephanou, Fr. Timothy Cremeens, Work of Christ/Theosis, etc.).
In the Orthodox the numbers are less than 1000 (
Excellent topic! Thanks for breaking this one down!
most educational and an honest presentation. Many blessings to you & yours my friend. thank you very much.
Thanks for the video! I was completely unaware of the existence of the third wave. It great to see (and hear) these differences explained! The kind of non-judgmental Christian content that moves faith and understanding forward!
My view was always that Charismatics did it quietly while Pentecostals were the loud ones. I mean that in a nice way. My family was made up of both and rigid Anglican. However apart from a few differences we understand each other. How good is the Lord.
I think it depends on the church. The Pentecostal church I attend isn't "loud".
Another well done, worthwhile video. Thank you.
I'm glad to see someone rightly dividing the differences between Pentecostals and Charismatics. People tend to lump us together, and that's not even close to true.
Very interesting and informative. I have grown up in Pentecostal churches and I’ve spent the majority of that time in the Assemblies Of God. However, I am ordained through a very small Pentecostal church based in Mangum, OK Rose Assembly Fellowship. We trace our origins back to the same Azuza street revival in the early 1900s but the legal incorporation came later.
As always, you’re very dispassionate straightforward approach is so much appreciated
Very interesting video. I am part of a Pentecostal denomination, but I do a lot of missions work with a few Southern Baptist organizations. Through many discussions, I’ve found that, at the end of the day, the main thing is to keep the main thing, the main thing; Christ’s birth, ministry, crucifixion, and return from the dead. The work He did on the Cross is sufficient.
Why did Paul write this then?
"By my sufferings I fill up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ,
If all Jesus did was sufficient then why would Paul not write "Jesus sufferings were sufficient and I don't need to do any work".
@@vicboothmusic
Your justification is by works and not by faith alone.
Thank you! This was very helpful in understanding the differences. I am truly a mishmash between the two as I don’t fully agree with either one on every issue.
This was excellent. I went to a CEC church for a while. Now I'm in an Anglican church that has some light charismatic influence.
Thank you, Joshua🌹🌹🌹🌹
God bless you so much
My current views are of the Apostolic-Pentecostal/ Oneness church. But thank you young man on opening my eyes to the now accepted song styles and music presentation of even our churches today. If you are looking for Apostolic or UPCI churches, they ask if you prefer the new style music or the old traditional music. Now at 73 and came into this movement at age 29, when I moved back home to my home church and went to the first service. I almost had to go back outside and read the sign to check If I was in the right place. I spoke with the new young pastor, which is my sons age and there very few things we had in common. I was with the Pastor that broke ground and built the new sanctuary. Many nights after work many of the men down at the church helping however we could. There was a lot of staining of wood and paneling, the beams in the ceiling and on the light board. Lots of blood sweat and tears putting all this together only to have it removed and what was left was painted over white. Well this Supposedly Pentecostal church is far more charismatic for me. Stick a fork in me because I'm Done!!!!
An EXCELLENT overview.
good analysis especially given that i was at a pentecostal church this morning
Thank you for the very informative video. It helped to clear up a lot of confusion.
Very excellent presentation, I thought there was a difference but this clarified it for me.
I was raised in the classical Pentecostal church. I was licensed as a Pentecostal minister and ordained as well. I ended up in Wimber's Vineyard (Third Wave) and other hyper Charismatic churches. After several decades I was convicted to leave the Charismatic Movement. I ended up embracing a Reformed, Calvinist Bible Chapel, where I am now. A great video.
Church hopper
As a Baptist myself. The "...dreaded Hawaiian shirt." line had me laughing way harder than it should have. 🤣
I am Pentecostal, and the idea of Hawaiian shirts and shorts on the platform would have me looking for a new church or a new pastor. Suits and ties are not strictly speaking necessary, but a dress shirt and tie are the bare minimum unless the occasion happens to be a singular occurrence, for which I am still less than likely to make an allowance for.
Rick Warren stopped wearing dreaded Hawaiian shirts because people made such a deal about it.
This was a very good video for getting into nuances. I grew up under AOG teaching, and it was confusing at best. The statements of faith claimed that speaking in tongues was the evidence of salvation, but that wasn't exactly how it was explained. Now I see that could have been due to the broader charismatic movement infiltrating. From my experience, tongues was subtly taught as a higher calling/privilege, but not necessarily a foolproof requirement for salvation. So I was riddled with guilt because there was pressure to speak in tongues (I didn't) as a sign of greater holiness. Favor with God was taught as tiered. IE: Looking at Romans 12:2. The good, acceptable, and perfect will of God were explained as 3 different levels of obedience (the higher the level, the greater the intimacy with God) I personally believe this to be a distortion of scripture, as those 3 words are all used in the positive context and appear equal (all positive affirmations). I'm not saying all Pentecostals teach this specific point, just sharing my experience. I am still a Christian, but deconstructing from Pentecostal doctrine was a long journey which brought much peace to my soul. It caused me to be riddled with guilt for years as a young person. It was amplified because I'm very competitive by nature, so I was always trying to outdo other Christians to be more pleasing to God (read the bible more, pray more, etc.) In the end, it turns into a vicious emotional cycle of never feeling good enough, trying to achieve holiness rather than view it as something that is imparted by God at salvation (which starts the sanctification process) . So it's not that it was taught as a works based gospel. But more of a rewards based gospel specifically. It you want a greater reward in heaven, you'll be in the "perfect will of God" category. I hope this all makes sense. False doctrine can be very confusing, because ultimately it contradicts itself at some point. Of course, in retrospect, it's my personal view that the Azusa street revival of 1906 was a demonic outpouring, not of the Holy Spirit. Therefore Pentecostalism is corrupt from it's roots. Truth mixed with error is the most deceptive kind. I'm certainly not saying they don't teach any truth. I'm thankful I heard a lot of the Word of God growing up, to give me a foundation.
Thanks for sharing, it sounds like you have had a tough spiritual journey! I'm inspired that you have remained true to the essence of our faith!
@@tedpfenninger4972 Hey Ted! Yes, this journey can be tricky at times. Deep down I've always believed Christ is who He said He was, so questioning the core of my faith was never a big issue. Learning how to weed through the lies (sometimes even well meaning ones) all around us is a completely different matter. :)
In Jesus name ❤
I wouldn’t go as far as calling the asuza street demonic and you are also speaking from personal experience… I do speak in tongues but I don’t feel superior to others and I do find it problematic when we try to force people to do so, I believe the Holy Spirit has other gifts that it can give to the church than speaking in tongues and speaking in tongues do not make me less and more spiritual than others. I am just gifted but there are more gifted people than me that don’t speak in tongues. I am a Pentecostal who attend an AOG church but I don’t always agree with every teaching but I thank God that my pastor is biblically rooted and has been a blessing for my life.
Thank you so much for this excellent (& winsome) 😃video!
One of my favourite videos.
I grew up COGIC (now Oriental Orthodox) and I remember seeing many women in ministry. My mom is a COGIC minister.
Oriental Orthodox Churches
wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Orthodox_Churches
Very interesting. I love the teaching of the Word, verse by verse, in Calvary Chapel.
Thank you for your comments on Calvary Chapel. I agree.
Appreciate you Josh for mentioning Church of God in Christ (COGIC). Interesting denomination.
I grew up Conservative Southern Baptist (80s) but felt God calling me to a more spiritual freedom by my early 20s as I attended a Baptist-Charismatic leaning church where I began to speak in tongues and worship more openly and expressively. My heart and inner spirit knew it was right for me ever since. I've read and studied a ton on this topic and I'm at peace with my conclusions and personal convictions. TY 😉
How you feel in your heart isn't the standard for truth.
Thank you for this. I've always wondered the question you've answered here and my place in it. As it turns out, I side with the Charismatics on 4 out of 5 issues you pontificate. - Now, c9uld you pls make a video on the recent happening concerning the Anaheim Vineyard split?
Thank you, brother. That was informative and entertaining ("dreaded Hawaiian shirt").
This is a very accurate overview. I got saved in and have been a member of an Every Nation (Victory Christian Fellowship) church and attended two Pentecostal (COG and AG) seminaries. I am now a Southern Baptist pastor.
Thank you, i appreciate this lol. i get lumped in w the Charismatics n the Oneness Pentecostals quite often for my Pentecostal association, i go to an assemblies of God church.
Thank you. that really helped.
So many churches with so many different doctrines and quite depressing that there is so much division that people are accepting. All of this is contrary to the prayer of Jesus that we might all be One - John 17:20-21
Very knowledgeable, Thanks
It's funny cuz I've been apart I guess a mix bag of this. Ahaha cuz now I'm confused. My family just identified as Pentecostal. But most I know believe in eternal security. Maybe things r changing ? Idk. Cuz I've grown with kinda a mix of both. I've been baptized in the holy spirit. Began to speak in tongues in my early 20s I never thought about gifts at all. Like at all. And it shook me. Such a powerful event in my life.
Great explanation!
Great video. Would you be interested in looking into the current “political climate of the UPCI? Currently there is a polarizing opinion on how the organization should lead churches. One side says it should act as a leading head/central government with much more influence while the other says the opposite. I can hook you up with a guy who is doing D. Div thesis on it if you’d be interested.
Watchout my friends, 60 minutes is doing a hit piece on your church. I agree with your ideas.
I think I perceive a generally harmonious attitude between these groups that were once more rigid. To me that's good.
Can you do a video on house church I attend one there different then the institutional churches we don't always meet on Sundays or in bulidsings we allow men and women to minster no deacons or elders just average people running the ministry it's mostly family's or married couples
The Full Baptist might be quite interesting for us.(predominately AfricanAmerican). Thank you, Joshua.🌹🌹🌹🌹
It would be interesting to see a comparison of churches or debominations that identify as Charismaric vs those that identify as Continuationist.
I’m the rare reformed person , really non denominational, hanging out in Pentecostal church, bc I agree with most of doctrines. 🤓plus it’s only a few streets over, I like the members and Pastor.
One of the main issues I take with Pentecostals (besides women in ministry I didn’t realize how left wing they are) is, for a denomination so focused on tongues, they completely ignore the church order for tongues given in 1 Corinthians 14:
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1 Corinthians 14:23-28
They think they need to reenact Pentecost every Sunday when this Scripture goes against the whole congregation speaking in tongues
This is a great video with lots of great information.
It’s noteworthy that there is a growing Charismatic Movement happening within the Catholic Church as well. I’d enjoy hearing your thoughts on this as I am a convert to Catholicism from the Foursquare church, I’m not sure I would call myself a Charismatic Catholic, though many of my friends are.
The book entitled People of the Spirit by church historian McGee goes into GREAT detail about this
Can you do a video on the Convergence Movement and denominations like The CEC and the two CEEC churches? Many are unaware of what Convergence is. Thank You!
Video on CEC already done and coming next month!
My church is CONVERGENCE
Hey, I loved your video. Can you do a video on Ethiopian-Eritrean Evangelicalism (P'ent'ay)? The main denominations being the Ethiopian Kale Heywet Church (a Charismatic Baptist Evangelical denomination with some roots in the Pentecostal, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Swedish Baptist, unspecified “Brethren,” and SIM Missionary traditions); the Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus (a Charismatic Lutheran denomination with roots in the Pietistic Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Pentecostal traditions); Ethiopian Full Gospel Believers' / Mulu Wongel Church (a Pentecostal denomination with some Mennonite influence); and Meserete Kristos Church (a Mennonite-Anabaptist denomination with Pentecostal influence). Most information on Wikipedia is correct while a few others are false claims or misconceptions (see talk pages and edit histories to make an educated judgment on its accuracy) but Wikipedia wouldn’t be a reputable source in the first place, so there are also several other resources that exist). All of these churches are Eastern Protestant and Evangelical Christian denomination, they hold to theologically conservative Evangelical Protestant theology and are Continuationist but maintain Eastern Christian traditions and cultural practices.
Can you also talk about the “Serving the Whole Person” theology? “Serving the Whole Person” or Christian “Holistic theology” is a view sometimes characterized as a modified version of liberation theology by its critics and a small minority of supporters (this characterization may be a stretch) while maintaining theologically conservative beliefs (not to be confused with political conservatism). “Serving the Whole Person”/Christian “Holistic theology”states that meeting the spiritual needs of the people (evangelism) should not be separated from meeting the physical needs of the people (development). It criticizes most Western theologians for replacing one over the other; criticizing most Western theological conservatives (of that era) of “proclamation alone/preaching alone” without committing to take actions against social injustice and criticizing most Western theological liberals of participating in “social action alone” giving relatively limited attention to proclaiming the gospel and for straying away from Biblical orthodoxy on most other issues (homosexuality, opposition to biblical inerrancy, using an ideologically modernist lens on theological issues, loss of faith in the existence of miracles and the power of God, etc.). The “Serving the Whole Person/Holistic theology” still holds to to theologically conservative Evangelical view that salvation is through faith alone and that good works do not save but are evidence of said salvation; what makes this somewhat relatively distinct in addition to poverty alleviation (through charity) and what was stated earlier is that alleviating social injustices (including through dialogue with social activism/ists and against injustice) is one such work the church can or should do. “Serving the Whole Person” theology started out in the Ethiopian-Eritrean Evangelical Churches (Pentay) and spread to a few other denominations in other parts of East Africa. I also found out that there are also other theologically conservative branches of liberation theology that are but support Evangelical orthodoxy but emphasize social action and social justice on socioeconomic issues as a duty, many of which are found in the Global South (esp. Africa) and many Black churches in America - although some fringe White American Evangelicals mistake them as theologically liberal, while in reality they hold to many or all of the same theologically conservative Biblically orthodox beliefs as their critics. It started out in the Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus (Lutheran - “Eastern Lutheran” - Pietistic Lutheran - denomination with some Pentecostal influence and one Presbyterian-leaning synod), spread to the Ethiopian Kale Heywet Church (Evangelical denomination with Baptist - "Swedish Baptist" - that emerged out of the Radical Pietist movement - and Pentecostal roots with some Mennonite influence), Ethiopian Mulu Wongel Full Gospel Believers' Church (Pentecostal denomination with some Mennonite influence), Meserete Kristos Church (Mennonite-Anabaptist denomination with some Pentecostal influence), several other Evangelical denominations in Ethiopia and a few in other parts of East Africa.
Mekane hiwet i think they are orthodox people but with reformed views
@@HolaBruv They are not Orthodox, I know them very well. They, like all Ethiopian-Eritrean Evangelicals retain elements of Easter Christianity (which Orthodox are a part of) that do not conflict with Evangelical theology, although Mekane Yesus (Lutheran) do this more than others.
This is interesting! I grew up in this part of the Body of Christ and I tend to blend Pentecostals and Charismatics, not sure where I grew up.
The church I grew up in certainly didn’t believe “once saved, always saved”; it seems my mom’s current church doesn’t believe it, either.
I don’t remember much one way or the other on whether or not speaking in tongues was a required sign for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The church I grew up in encouraged us to help folks get the baptism of the Spirit and to speak in tongues immediately after leading them in the Sinner’s Prayer. I remember some parishioners and folks on the pastoral team at my mom’s current church praying over a lady to receive the baptism of the Spirit. She did not speak in tongues.
Both churches allowed women to preach: the church I grew up in was led by a husband and wife team, and when the husband passed away, his widow took over. (However, he did frequently preach on verses about wives submitting to their husbands.) My mom’s current church has both men and women on the pastoral team. In fact, when the senior pastor and his wife are unable to attend, one lady on the pastoral team generally preaches.
The church I grew up in was very much premillennial/pre-Trib Rapture. The senior pastor of my mom’s current church has indicated he isn’t a fan of Rapture theology and even said in reference to it, “I don’t care!”
As for liturgy, folks in the church I grew up in weren’t fans. I haven’t heard one way or another at my mom’s current church.
It seems there is a lot of overlap. I guess my upbringing was more Pentecostal than Charismatic. (While I have embraced some liturgy and have explored other churches, I noticed I still intercede like a Pentecostal. I also noticed an urge to raise my hands in online worship.)
Do you have "RE-NEWED" churches in the US?
This is pretty accurate. I was raised Baptist but at 18 years old began going to an Apostolic/Pentecostal church. Now at 49 years old I’ve seen just about everything that’s out there and debated doctrine with all these people. I’d say this video is very accurate.
My initial exception that I take with this presentation is with the use of the word "suddenly" in relation to the appearance of the first Pentecostals. Nothing occurs in a vacuum, and modern Pentecostalism finds its genesis in the John Alexander Dowie sect. Founders of the various Pentecostal denominations can trace their roots back to this influence.
Grew up UPC/Apostolic Pentecostal...what we were taught was radically different to what you've said here, lol (although some aspects were accurate to that background). I feel like a whole separate video is probably needed to help elucidate the difference between Apostolic ("holiness") Pentecostalism and the more sensible, biblical "pentecostal" denominations (i.e. AoG). Fun fact, the Apostolic Pentecostals actually had their roots in the AoG, but split off sometime in the early 1900s (I think, it could have been as late as when my great grandparents were alive and involved with the movement, which would've been like the thirties through to the fifties probably).
You are definitely right that in this video I am talking about mainstream trinitarian Pentecostalism. But I do have a video on UPCI here: ua-cam.com/video/3HHKwl9ZoL0/v-deo.html
and also a video comparing UPCI to Assemblies of God here: ua-cam.com/video/l1JTG4Fj6Rw/v-deo.html
@@ReadyToHarvest Awesome, I shall check those out!
Have no I’ll feelings towards Catholics,but when baptised in the Holy Spirit,it was a trans formation from religion to relationship.God living and personal in my daily walk.Took a couple of years before I spoke fluently in tongues.
The International Charismatic Episcopal churches and Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship may be good examples of Charismatic churches
Thank you. I'm a Pentecostal. Very glad that you are informing people of these facts, although there are a lot of things in some Pentecostal churches that are not good, I certainly do not want to be associated together with Charismatics. Most definitely not.
I was raised in Charismatic churches. I would have put the A of G Church in the Charismatic column. Is it Pentecostal because of its temporzl founding? All A of G churches I've visited have a Charismatic feel to it.
A classical Pentecostal Denomination you missed is the Pentecostal Holiness Churches Denomination! They are very close to the Church of God Cleveland/TN denomination in their theology!
[ Carlton Pearson ] my favorite Pentacostal Universalist ! 👏
Hi, which church do you go to worship?
This is nice channel
Is there a reason UPCI wasn’t mentioned in the list of Pentecostal denominations?
That’s because the term Pentecostal is synonymous with Classical Pentecostalism (the mainstream Trinitarian Christian) and the UPCI is not a true Pentecostal/Classical Pentecostal (Trinitarian) denomination, the UPCI is a non-trinitarian Oneness Pentecostal denomination not recognized as legitimate Christian denomination let alone a Pentecostal denomination by Classical Pentecostals and other Evangelical Christians. Most see Oneness Pentecostals (UPCI) not as Pentecostals or Protestant Christians but are seen in a similar light as Mormons (LDS), Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW), and Iglesias ni Christi.
Is there a difference between the pentacostal and apostolic churches? Also, have you done a video on the differences?
By apostolic I assume you refer to Oneness Pentecostals, which often go by that title.
Here's a video on Oneness Pentecostals: ua-cam.com/video/3HHKwl9ZoL0/v-deo.html
Here are two videos comparing oneness Pentecostals to other Pentecostal denominations:
ua-cam.com/video/l1JTG4Fj6Rw/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/pJX5KiJQXUk/v-deo.html
@@ReadyToHarvest there are Apostolic trinitarians as well
Definitely a difference
The Spiritual Gifts, the Mystery of Jesus Christ, the Hidden Things of God.
It is all in the Bible. I’m a Methodist!
Paul was the chain of the Mystery of Jesus Christ, it took me more than 20 years to understand it.
It happened last week, Bible and Faith.
God the Father gives Faith.
God the Son perfects Faith, the Objects of Faith and
The Holy Spirit Distributes Faith.
All in the Gospel.
Thank you for sharing this video.
As a reformed charismatic, love the representation here. Rare acknowledgement of our existence.
What about Bethel? I find three families. Mystical Christianity, biblical Pentecostalism, and traditional baptist formalism. As an ex-Pentecostal I think they’re more committed to Biblical applications of spiritual gifts with a cessation theology. The traditional Baptist culture is cessation its, and the Bethel am New Vineyard groups drift off into non-biblical mysticism. So, with mysticism on the left, non-cessationist Pentecostalism in the middle, and cessationists on the right, all three views are visible. The key element is attachment to Biblical principles in worship, which many charismatic groups overlook. Charismatic churches seem to follow cultural norms without regard to Biblical values.
Thanks for a great assessment of Pentecostal and Charasmatic culture.
I would still be practicing Pentecostalism if it were more character based. I think the culture depends on irrational spirituality rather than Christ based character.
Blessings to all.
Geoff
Also...I could be wrong on this, but last I checked, any Assemblies of God pastor who preaches or teaches anything other than Premillennial Dispensationalism, most likely, will lose his or her ministry credentials.
That is what is supposed to happen, but not these days. The AoG is too busy with the church growth to be bothered with accountability for those in ministry. In my experience, the only way a pastor is removed or disciplined is if you have proof of sexual sin or financial wrong doings.
what do you think of Pastor Greg Locke and some woman being promoted to the level of Apostle? thanks
I grew up Lutheran, became a Charismatic Lutheran and switched to Pentecostal.
Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus is a conservative Charismatic Lutheran denomination.
Sounds like you did everything in the RIGHT order!
The charismatics came about as more people experienced the Pentecostal phenomena of speaking in tongues or embraced the doctrine, but were turned off by the legalism of traditional Pentecostal denominations.
Yeah if someone asked me to describe charismatics, I would say something like “something between Pentecostals and mainstream churches”. Either way, no matter how much charismatics have risen as a response to Pentecostalism’s meteoric rise, it’s clear the Pentecostals have pushed the Overton window of Christianity
There’s ONLY ONE CHURCH therefore protestant’s are NOT Christian! Protestantism is unbiblical heretical and anti Christ for proof watch Don’t call protestant’s Christian! Also watch the warning or illumination of conscience by Christine Watkins. Then Following Padre Pio. Then The Papacy can NOT be destroyed. Then as mentioned Don’t call protestant’s Christian-a very challenging video. Also please listen to these holy priest’s Fr’s Ripperger,Mark Goring,Bill Casey, and Chris Alar! God bless. Ps did you know that the Bible is a Catholic book the protestant Bible is an incomplete and corrupted Catholic book for proof watch Steve Ray’s excellent testimony.
It would be more accurate say they were turned off by the conservatism or holiness beliefs of traditional Pentecostal denominations. Your use of the word legalism is an unkind, pejorative slur.
@@timothyowen4503 Not really. Some pentecostals are definitely legalistic.
So many Christian sects/denominations advertise that their specific faith is the most likely--or often the only--path to salvation. Which denomination is the best for people looking to ensure their place in heaven? What reasons or evidence exists to back up their position? Why is it so difficult to determine the best, most effective denomination?
Does this not overlap with Holiness churches?
Excellent teaching and I forward it alot of friends. I Consider myself. Bapticostal
Evangelist ROGER MANSOUR
Messianic Jew
I grew up in the Wesleyan denomination, married into a Pentecostal family, and spent the last few years in the Church of the Nazarene. On paper, the Nazarenes seem identical to the Wesleyans. In practice, Nazarenes seem to be a middle ground between Pentecostals and Wesleyans. Nazarenes emphasize the second work of the Spirit more than Wesleyans, but without tongues. Interestingly, neither of these denominations explicitly opposes tongues partially because tongues are practiced heavily in African churches of the same denominations. The Church of the Nazarene was once named "Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene" prior to some of the more extreme Pentecostal movements, and the Nazarenes chose to distance their identity from more extreme versions of Pentecostalism. In essence, Wesleyans and Nazarenes are Pentecostals who don't speak in tongues and express themsleves a little more calmly. Members often flow easily between these churches, which all speak highly of John Wesley's teachings.
If I were holding each denomination in one of my hands while over a cliff, I am not sure which one I would let go of first.
It was never said out loud, but I'm pretty sure my childhood church (a Congregational Methodist congregation) was lightly influenced by the charismatic movement. We didn't speak in tongues; but spiritual gifts were discussed at length, youth nights had hand-raising and crying during worship, there was a lot of anxiety about "am I REALLY saved", people spoke about God speaking to them as an individual, and of course emphasis on the End Times.
Sounds like good church to me! I raise my hands every service. I cry every service because how good God has been to me. I’m so blessed. And He IS coming back for His bride.
What's wrong with hand raising and crying, kneeling? I do that all the time. How else do you express your adoration to the only Living God who is worthy of all praise, glory and honor. Psalm 63:4, Psalm 119:48, Psalm 141:2, Psalm 134:2, Lamentations 2:19, Lamentations 3:41...
@@robindass2524 I wasn't saying anything was wrong with it, just that it's part of charasmatic culture. But I express adoration to God by contemplating the words. The Lord didn't make me very physically emotive, there's more than one way to praise.
@@spadinnerxylaphone2622
I think it’s worth pointing out that the Lord GOD often commanded His people Israel to shout aloud and not hold back and to praise Him with zeal. I wonder how the Israelites in Bible times would’ve viewed this more dignified, contemplative worship.
And please keep in mind, I myself have worshipped that way and still do, and go through seasons where I do it more or less. I’m not condemning your worship by any means. God forbid! But I think it’s worth keeping in mind that sometimes we need to remember the God we serve and to emote not out of emotion but out of reverence, if that makes sense.
In the book of Revelation for example, even the 24 elders and the 4 living creatures are constantly throwing themselves on their faces and crying out with glorious doxologies, or when the Apostle Paul is writing about the Lord in his epistles he will suddenly cry out with doxologies as well. Were the 24 elders and the 4 living creatures in the direct presence of God and the Lamb? Well, yeah, but that’s still the same God we’re worshipping and who inhabits our praises. Was the Apostle Paul writing those things under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? Well, yeah again, but the Holy Spirit lives in us just as much as He lived in him.
Just something to maybe keep in mind. Or not, idk. Just some thoughts.
@@littlefishbigmountain I just don't think forcing oneself to scream and hollar is necessary, if that's not how you're genuinely feeling. Being performative is borderline lying to me.
Please do charismatic vs neo charismatic too
Are there any Metropolitan’s,Archbishop’s and Bishop’s in each of these church’s.I am
a Roman Catholic.
I grew up COGIC ans in southern COGIC churches there is still alot of restriction on women in ministry. Apostolic charismatic churches they allow women to pastor or become elders.
As a Texas Southern Baptist who grew up during the "scary charismatic invasion," I have a growing respect for Calvary Chapel. Their doctrine generally seems right on and very biblically-founded, and they are highly restrained in their understanding of the charismatic gifts. I very much prefer a more traditional hymn-based worship style with maybe a modern praise chorus thrown in at the appropriate time, but such things are not division issues. I am actually more concerned with their almost corporate church governance doctrine than anything else. Which is pretty impressive to be able to say when looking at two supposedly so different groups.
I have heard CC pastors preach strongly against Baptist-style "hireling" pastorship, and CC seems to me to be too far the other direction with pastors of new churches essentially appointed by more senior CC pastors. This seems less like a free assembly of believers responsible for acknowledging the one God has provided as their pastor or rmove him if he faips the test of pastorship, and more a corporate branch structure in which the appointed pastor and the CC brand *are* the church, and people are hoped to join.
Yet this is less different to Baptist than Methodist or Presbyterian governance, so while it does deal with a central Baptist distinctive (Congregational Polity), it is not so large a divide as exists between us and most other denominations.
What do you think of the misogyny and homophobia and transphobia that is going on in the Southern Baptist Convention?
William of Ockham ,
Do you mean the support for the Biblical standard on gender roles? I mean, the Bible's pretty clear. Everyone is free to formulate their own opinion and the Bible doesn't force itself upon anyone, but if we even pretend to be of a Biblical religion, we should probably try to live by Biblical standards.
We have to ask ourselves, "Were Jesus and the Apostles just pious men that lived a long time ago, or were they presenting a divine message from God?"
If the former is the case, then who cares about any of this? If the latter, then we would expect divine revelation to stand *at least* until further revelation says otherwise. Only God can change or add to His Word.
I recommend digging into (Calvary Chapel pastor) Mike Winger's *extremely* thorough series on women in ministry. He candidly states that he started his research on the subject rooting for a modern Egalitarian reading of Scripture, but found an unassailable case for Complementarianism staring back at him. If you want a detailed and thorough explanation of the Complementariam position, you can't do better.
Ask yourself, are you enforcing your ethics onto the Bible, or letting the Bible dictate your ethics? If you claim the latter, I encourage you to fearlessly follow along as Mike works through the controversies point by point through the Word.
@@jameswoodard4304 The Bible was a book written by human beings that can be interpreted in myriad ways. The Bible isn’t pretty clear on anything, it’s a work that screams out for interpretation.
Ancient Israel and first century Palestine were deeply misogynistic societies and so the people who lived and wrote in those societies were deeply misogynistic, it makes no sense for us to be arbitrarily bound to them.
Complementarianism is male domination by another name, because it conveniently gives people assigned male at birth control of most things that actually matter.
Your all or nothing approach to a book is strange and disturbing, it’s a text that should be interpreted and reinterpreted constantly, and I really think that there’s no problem with just discarding what no longer works. Divine inspiration means it was inspired by the divine in the same way that Vivaldi was inspired by the seasons.
I am a Continuationist which narrows it down to one issue - whether or not God is still willing to use the spiritual gifts. This position differs from Word of Faith which holds that God will perform a miracle in response to faith.
One thing to consider: Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Matthew 21:21 KJV
Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.