This message is from part 6 of Dr. Godfrey’s study series A Survey of Church History. Watch the entire series: www.ligonier.org/learn/series/a-survey-of-church-history-part-6
I can't afford to pay for it. Retired, I live off of $13,620 a year, paying rent. I did just get a $90 a month increase in social security in January, and that was really appreciated. But still I can't justify the $40 or so expense for the series. But thanks for making it available for those that can. Even my internet is a gift from someone else who offered it to me. I'm appreciative for it too.
This is the most appropriate comment on pentacostalism. I learn alot from this presentation. I have listened to several presentations on history and pentecostalism. The cessationism were the worst commentators. Their interpretation is bad. Dr. Godfrey, I don’t know he is a reform scholar or not, is well balance and well done.
Ironically, nothing about Pentecostalism and Baptistism is incompatible. I'm a Baptist in the truest and oldest sense of the term and very much also pentecostal.
There are genuine believers within the pentecostal community that value sanctification, holiness, and study the scriptures diligently...it's not just the Reformed camp.
I agree! Than I would ask this question. Why aren't they coming up with the same understanding. Is it culture? Is tradition? Is stubbornness? What is holding them back from leaving erroneous views. Views that are not Biblical. And views that are Spiritually abusive and damaging to the body.
@@robertocastro2549 to be honest I feel that tradition has ALOT to do with it. For some folks tradition and sound doctrine are the same...they are unable to differentiate between the two.
@@lplapuri true that. It's difficult too separate for some people because they are attached to their culture a little to much. As it identifies then as person. So they may run the risk of being emotional and not being to be honest with self to have clarity. I went through this process. I was first introduced to Christianity through a Pentacostal church. It's honestly just leaving everything you know at the door and relearning everything over again. It's very enlightened and so many burdens have come doing this.
@@robertocastro2549 I’ve been to both baptize and Pentecost churches and some baptist have swollen heads and there hearts have shrunk. They don’t show love anymore they just say God bless you but don’t look for your needs. They hurt people with the Truth and don’t provide Love with the truth. Borderline pride. But there are some Baptist like Paul Washer who put emphasis on Prayer this man is a man of God who not only preaches the Truth but also shows love by looking for your needs.
I came to the Lord in a Pentecostal Church and was delivered from drugs, healed in my mind and body. When Jesus filled me with His Spirit and I spoke in tongues a flood light was turned on in my heart changing my life completely. The things I used to love like drugs, sin, I now hate. The things I used to hate like goodness, righteousness, I now love. There was no promise of health and wealth but a promise of eternal life and forgiveness of sins. That was 50 years ago and Jesus has walked with me every step of the way.
And there are so many more with testimonials just like this. I really like reformed teachers, even while knowing their views on the gifts of the Spirit. What I find interesting is that the reformed people correctly point out how the gospel of prosperity takes scripture out of context, the reformed view of the gifts of the Spirit being "sign gifts" for apostles, does the exact same thing! Prosperity is all through the Bible when read in context. Even the history of the early church is selective. Gifts of the Spirit continued through out history. Pretty much every century has it's "charismatic revival" with gifts of the Spirit recorded for historians to discover.
I agree with you. I have almost the same testimony. The way JESUS touched my heart was supernatural and filled me with his love. HE IS REAL.. I love my JESUS he is everything in my life. He fills me with life every day.
I love my reformed brothers and sisters in Christ! I have learned so much through reformed doctrine. It’s puzzling to some when they find out that I am a Pentecostal pastor and my favorite ministers to listen to are Paul Washer, Voddie Baucham and R.C. Sproul. His generalization of Pentecostalism is not as big of an issue as the damage being done by the charismatic preachers of health and wealth gospel. So preach on friend!
Throughout the years I have been to many Pentecostal churches (and there are plenty here in Romania) and I have never heard the 'health and wealth' promise as exposed here. Maybe it applies mostly to American churches, I don't know. We pray for healing if it is God's will. Also, some congregations can be surprisingly quiet :) but in general 'Amens' and light forms of 'preach it, brother' are appreciated.
I agree, not all the Pentecostal Churches are the same and not all Churches have the pentecostal on their name, he just put them all in the same group. The same way Reform theology is a different way of Protestant.
@Cristina Pavel Mr. Godfrey seems to be describing a lot of tv charismatic/pentecostal preaching, but not necessarily the local church beliefs. I have been a part of several Pentecostal churches in the US and some of them preached more of the "health" than "wealth" nearly to the point of saying that if someone doesn't get healed, it's due to a lack of faith (which I disagree with). Also, there seems to be an emphasis on tongues and getting emotional during worship. In reality, emotions may or may not always be evident during worship. Just like any denomination or religion, there are extremes in Pentecostalism.
My family ran a pentecostal ministry, and yeah, they'll never say that, yet it's in their hearts. I had to ask multiple questions about why they believe and God and what certain verses mean and such, eventually they admitted they live for God because God is happy and loving to make us wealthy, healthy and that God made us to live a life of abundance, as in a life having lots of health and money. So many of them believe that, they just won't say it straight out like that. They don't seem to show greediness and rather seem sacrificial until their sacrifice won't have the person or someone returning the favor with money or at least a compliment. They must have something eventually that they expect in return for their sacrifices or they'll stop helping in that particular situation. So, it kinda takes a lot to get to see that side of their beliefs. But I'm sure that's not every pentecostal, that's just my own family and some others I know who are pentecostals and even run a ministry.
I also grew up in a classical pentecostal church. I was in the church of Pentecost, Ghana 🇬🇭🔥 where I learnt a lot of pentecostal theology for almost 20years. Thanks for the series. I am now in a reformed church over here in Ghana.
I was born in a reformed church , grew in pentecostal circles and I now fellowship in a Baptist church. I am glad that I have a bit of both worlds , I wish there is more real human relationships in pentecostalism but I also wish reformers had more excitement about the word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit .
I had the reverse experience of growing up in a very heavily charismatic back ground then growing a lot in my faith in reformed circles. I am now finishing my undergrad and about to go to Baptist seminary @Talent Chuma
Up north where reformed churches are rare, there is a lot of excitement because the youth found reformed teaching on their own and scrambled to find those churches
what do you mean about have more excitement about the Holy Spirit? What do you expect them to make the Holy Spirit do might be right question or whatever you meant?
@@respectingthewordpodcast Well, as someone who was raised Pentecostal, the "first wave" type:) I think basically he's referring to worship and praise. Scriptures like, "come into his house with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise" and "make a joyful noise unto the Lord," "clap your hands all you people" one preacher said it this way, "you get on your feet for a guitar my God you ought to get on your head for the preaching. Music will make you feel better, but preaching will save you. Preaching will bring the glory of God down" LOL!
As a survivor of Pentecostalism, I say give me Jesus. Let me talk of Christ and Him crucified. God's written Word is vastly richer than any "prophecies" overzealous man can imagine. I can't tell you how thrilled I was to learn the Solas. And to learn about early church history. And to hear historical church creeds for the first time. And to understand how the Divinity of Christ relates to the Trinity. As a Pentecostal, I knew next to nothing about my Christian Faith. And I thought I knew much. Such pride. Sigh. Thank God for His mercy!!
I grew up in a traditional Pentecostal church. We were encouraged not to have TVs in our home. I was on vacation and there was a TV in our hotel room. I turned it on and saw a Praise the Lord program with Tammy Fay Baker. I watched it for 10 minutes before I realized it was a Christian program. So unlike what I saw in church. The churches today have gone off the deep end with the health and wealth teachings and all the prophecies coming from ministers. I was taught God can heal today, but it wasn’t a guaranteed promise. We were to ask but it was left to God’s will. I do not watch the Christian TV today. It’s given Christianity a bad name.
I love the faith and am very happy with my PCA church I'm a member of. Thank you Ligonier Ministries and Mr. Godfrey for teaching about God and His holiness. I wouldn't have made it without God leading me to deepen my faith with sound theology and infinite love. God bless you ❤
Thank you for this teaching. I must say that the Lord has brought me out of these movements that you speak of and when He began to open my eyes it was a painful process, however; I am forever grateful that He has done so. I continue on this journey to understand the church history and truly be a believer with knowledge and not moved by my emotions being tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. God bless you!
I was AG for over 40 years...they don't or didn't lie about planting church numbers back in 84. I have no idea how they are doing now but I have a solid biblical foundation.
I came to the realization that the biggest pressence of God is in His Word. The “catch” is that you will only know of this truth if you are a newborn creature of the Kingdom. Once you are Born Again you understand why Christ and many other brothers relentlessly preached “You must be born again!”.
@@rockwild737 of course the presence of God is in his people but we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that is a witness to the world or that it is a tool to win the Lost, it is not. Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God. This is God's doing and it's marvelous in our sight , it's a mystery and the secret things belong to God, we are commanded to preach the word to win the souls, what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul. The witness or presence of God in his church in each believer is for them, it's for you it does not convert anybody, Jesus pointed out in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man that even though one raised from the dead if they don't believe Moses and the prophets, written word they will not even believe one risen from the dead.
@@donsimonds5186 i agree with you but also, are we not witnesses to the world? Are we not to let the light of Christ shine out of you to the glory of God the Father? Matt. 5:14-16?
you have been made a new creation, by the indwelling presence of The Spirit in you. That Spirit testifies to your spirit of truths you read and hear spoken from The Scriptures. It is not a stand alone process, of just reading the Bible.
@@rockwild737 God is in those who are born again. God speaks to his elect through his word. If you claim anything outside of that you are claiming new revelation.
After leaving the Roman Catholic Church I could never be under a Pentecostal church. In many ways they are similar. I finally found the truth at its best after God led me to reformed theology.
If ye seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness You find that He hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: You find the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. End result: You and God the Father Son and Holy Ghost are all in there together. I am forever praising and believing Jesus Christ and this is pleasing to God.
Great video. I don't think the argument that miracles, gifts and healings were only for the foundation of the church, however, is very strong. The scripture is fairly clear that the gifts were given to edify the church (meaning the body of believers). The need for edification did not stop when the church was fully established. The ability for believers to speak into each others' lives when moved by the Holy Spirit is simply how the church is supposed to work. We are members of Christ and one another. To deny this ability simply because it doesn't fit our world view means we miss out on the richness of the Christian life.
Rev 19:10 … the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Modern day prophets speak by the same spirit as earlier ones. The spirit that is typing this confesseth that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh”. I am forever praising and believing Jesus Christ and this is pleasing to God.
Agreed. Perhaps our rationalistic worldview keeps us from embracing a supernatural world that is so much part of the Scriptures. I have found the work of Charles Kraft very helpful in helping Christians understand the supernatural dimension of Christianity.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, - 2 Timothy 3:16 That's not what it says. Don't misquote Scripture. It's the Word of God. It deserves more respect.
I grew up in a pentecostal church in Germany. When I spent a few years in the U.S. during my 20s I realised I have not much in common with charismatic/pentecostal churches there and started listening to reformed preachers. It seems to me that the "health and wealth gospel" is mainly an American problem but sadly it's being exported.
To his point about culture (i was raised CRC), when all the refored churches closed there doors in my area during covid it was a Pentecostal church that remained open and where i went and remained with today. They activity follow Christ over culture and the core value of meeting for church over principality's of fear that so many let rule them for a time.
We ask "what is our authority." Our feelings or the Word of God? In our Bible Presbyterian church we were taught from the Scriptures that God's Word is our authority. Praise God. Thank you Dr. Godfrey. The Lord bless you richly always.
What do you see? Falling out? Tongues? Holy laughter? What is the unclean spirits name is the question. Satan has done a fine job of convincing people that they can have pentecost today! He masquerades as an angel of light.
One day we all will be standing before the Heavenly Judge and He will not ask us the difference between the Pentecostals, Baptists, the Reformd, etc. He will rather tell us: "I look at you and see My righteous Son Jesus".
@@areviktaymizyan8174 I have been born again in a Pentecostal church in Vanadzor. With a pain in my heart I can see that what you say is right. Too sad. Simply I don't want to witness any strife between the Pentecostals and others. There is so much unbelief and neopaganism around. May God spare us from all evil.
@@areviktaymizyan8174 I am. I was born there. For more than 20 years I have been cooperating with the Reformed Churches of North America. I've translated a number of books into Armenian. Now my beliefs tend more to the Reformed Christianity. But I do attend the Pentecostal church here. I can't abandon them; it would be like denouncing your mom and dad, wouldn't it?
A reasonable if not a little simplistic overview of Pentecostalism. As a Canadian Pentecostal Pastor I would argue the Pentecostal movement is large and diverse; from relatively conservative and bible based to more hyper charismatic and not so bible based. I would definitely agree the community aspect of this teaching is often true, people do come and go.
In my city, there's a little pocket of 4 pentacostal churches. I was very close with some families who attended these churches. It seems to be very common place for these families to jump around to different churches each week. Whereas I've grown up in the same church for 27 years. The community experience is very different. I'm curious if this is fairly common in the movement? :)
@@LaniakeaLeathercrafts Hi Noah. I would say in my experience - 38 years of pastoring, the answer is yes. Of course I have no written and studied material to prove it; but I would suggest my pastoral expertise qualifies me to speak to my experiences in 3 cities. I’m not sure the reasons but would suggest some in Pentecostalism want the extreme hyper Pentecostal experience; some want a church that is more missional and bounce around to find it; some look for their flavour and some just bounce around because they’re not rooted. Lots of reasons I suppose but I believe some Pentecostal foundations built on too much experience and not enough theology about community, Christ-centeredness and sound doctrine. An examination at each church is worthwhile.
One of the things I missed most from being a Charismatic/Pentecostal was the reverence for the things of God, particularly the communion, and baptism. We were trying so hard not to look "religious" that sometimes I saw people crossing into irreverence, treating Jesus like the guy next door. I recaptured much of the awe and reverence of God in confessional Lutheranism--a radical departure from my previous church affiliation!
@@joshuatheo1419 Read Job 38:4-7 and use your concordance to looko at the word 'sang'. Also, I suggest you get a blessing and read the book of Revelation. Heaven is rarely silent, only 1/2 hour.
@@53081church If you are looking only for noise ... seems you found it. I'm seeking Jesus in all His depth and glory. And I found Him. Or rather, He found me.
@@eflint1 Ravenhill wasn’t a Pentecostal in that he didn’t speak in tongues, but he did have roots in protopentecostal holiness, Wesleyan, and Puritan revivalist theology. His biography notes that he did have 7 reported cancer healings in a row when he prayed for people. But he loathed televangelism and the prosperity gospel. He had nuance and balance - something both the charismatic and reformed worlds too often lack :/
I'm a Pentecostal and we don't always shout during our services, there are also times of silence. Remember that David danced before the Lord and people shouted to the Lord in victory. If we can shout when a team makes a touchdown, how much more should we (within reason) give a shout and praise to God for saving our souls? I don't think Heaven is going to be a quiet place :).
My grandfather used to be a pentecostal pastor, and he was a very calm preacher. Everyone mostly remained silent during preaching without ever shooting except during some singing. Yet, I have been to other pentecostal chapels where they shout, speak in tongues that no one can translate, and rarely some do a little running around. There's a pentecostal chapel I've seen but have not attended as their sign has a motto saying "Come and experience the difference." I'm convinced they're deeply focused on spiritual feelings and experiences. So some pentecostals do that stuff, but not all. Yet, I find stuff like this also in other denominations. People don't act the same way each chapel just because they're the same denomination. Yet, there's also multiple types of pentecostals, baptists, etc.
You have missed the point entirely. Look up John MacArthurs 'Strange Fire 'conference and also Justen Peters 'clouds without water.' You will be blessed with alot of wisdom
@@VYMQGSOH The way my church worked is this. We would start with worship (singing songs, everyone would stand up and sing), then we'd have "fellowship" where everyone gets up and greets one another. I think once a month we had communion right after this. The rest of the service was a sermon, everyone sat down and remained quite while our Pastor spoke the sermon of the day. At some point during the service they'd usually have a "speaking in tongues" segment (I never knew what it was, I just heard gibberish, which I understand now is what it REALLY was). While there was a speaking in tongues segment, I'm pretty sure it was pre-planned during the service and it wasn't a completely random thing. They would usually end with one more song and a prayer. Some people would speak out loud with an "amen" or "praise Jesus" during prayers, but otherwise people generally kept quiet during the services.
Pentecostal ism is the reason why China has over 200000000 Christians in the country beginning soon after the Azusa revival in Las Angeles.Brazil also has 100s of Foursquare churches because people not only believe in the Holy Spirit but are baptized in the Holy Spirit,receiving many Spiritual gifts.The Holy Spirit actually living in people!
Pentecostals one of their beliefs in the congregation of the church is tithing which is in the scripture, Preaching and interpreting the true word of God blessing the congregation with the real meaning of scripture is a form of speaking in tongue also worshiping scripture gospel is another form of speaking in tongue , we blessed congregation do interpret the message 🌟❤️
Evil , wickedness are in all churches, true doctrines ,false doctrine your deception is against true doctrines pentecostal churches are true doctrines, deceitful leaders of Christianity are slim and few, you discredited true doctrines.
As an Indian Christian I see the following ; The third wave Pentecostalism is more like the Hinduism with a Christian front; Most Hindu sadhus attract devotees with promises of earthly blessings- health, wealth and success; the practice of speaking in tongues is more like that practiced by idol worshippers with cult practices.
Would you consider translating or allowing the video collaboratively to be translated into Spanish? This video and the previous one on Aimee Semple McPherson would be, without careless hyperbole, extremely profitable and helpful for the Latin American church. That is in light of the widespread charismatic and prosperity movements that thrive there without knowledge of their historical origins. I come from Mexico and had never heard a single allusion to the roots of pentecostalism's views and development. In that regard, these lessons are true eye openers.
These videos actually give a very tainted view of the historic roots of the Pentecostal movement because the goal is to give a very negative impression. The same could easily be done to the Reformers and especially John Calvin and his behaviour in Geneva. I think we need to look more closely at the balance of the scriptures, and realize that the ones given in this video offer no support for the cessationist views they promote.
@@bornagainbach2731 you don’t know the historic roots of Pentecostalism. The early Pentecostals believed the gifts were being restored not continuing. It’s only been since the 70s Pentecostalism changed its teachings to the gifts never ceased. Fighting For The Faith channel has a video on this and he shares what they wrote in their own books concerning this. I don’t remember the title of the video.
God is present in His Word which is alive and our born again spirit, not our flesh rejoices. There are many different forms of rejoicing but there should be self control, which is a fruit of the Spirit. Our outward expression should display our inward blessing. That being said, do everything in moderation and exhaltation to God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit.
A question to consider is why traditional Pentecostalism has obsessed over end times eschatology. The idea of returning to New Testament Christianity has a kind of persecution complex where it insists that any real expression of Christianity must be measured by miracles and mass conversions. The first Christians were subjected to cruel persecutions and marginalized by the dominant religions of the day. The Jews lived under a brutal Roman occupier that tolerated no rivals to its claim. Pentecostals, like most reformed evangelicals, see themselves as "sojourners," who do not belong to this world. Their culture is one frozen in time and ever ready to escape imminent tribulation. To such this is all that can be hoped for hence a heavy reliance on the power of God as a means of coping with these seemingly permanent realties.
A friend of mine would ALWAYS wear a dress ( below the knee). She would never be without a hat. She would never utter a word. It's for the man to speak for the family. I dearly love her and admire how she feels she needs to show respect inside of the church. It's not a Pentecostal church. I have been to one but it wasn't for me.
"Be not overly righteous, and do not make yourself too wise. Why should you destroy yourself?Be not overly wicked, neither be a fool. Why should you die before your time?It is good that you should take hold of this, and from that withhold not your hand, for the one who fears God shall come out from both of them. - Ecclesiastes 7:16-18 We must always be careful not to fall into legalism in our attempts to avoid sin.
1 Cor 13 1 If I speak in the tongues [1] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, [2] but have not love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
He is deceitful , he publicly speaking as all churches are not a true word of God's teaching foundation of Pentecostal is true works of Holy spirit ,one only Father in heaven.🌟😇
Wow. This is such a broad and generalized view of Pentecostalism. It’s like saying all Baptists are the same. Reformed or not. So judgmental. DOA teaching. And to say people are uneducated? My wife is going for her masters at Winebrenner Theological Seminary and University of Findlay. She gets A’s! Do you claim she’s uneducated? Be careful pointing fingers, for there will be three more pointing back at you. I pray the Holy Spirit gives everyone true knowledge. I grew up as a Jehovah’s Witness and I remember similar claims from them about other religions and how theirs is totally the truth and no one else is right. I got away from that cult and got saved by Jesus. Be careful of singular minded thinking. AG and Pentecostalism are not all the same. We don’t run around and jump in the pews, nor are we uneducated. This is the most spirit led church I have ever been in. I see the fruits of the spirit daily. Our pastor teaches sound, biblical doctrine. I don’t know where you get some of your talking points but they are way off. God bless!🙏🏻✝️🐟
There is a community in the pentecostal church. Some churches have more turnover than others because of their location and the nature of their membership. Even in Reformed churches in large metropolitan areas, it's sometimes hard to keep up with the coming and going because people move to and from the area so often.
The Apostles all were Pentecostal beginning on the Feast of Pentecost.Even the Early Church was Pentecostal. Jesus wanted everyone to be baptized in the Holy Spirit ,the Holy Spirit of God living in human beings.Ones life changes dramatically after the baptism of the HS. It’s not an intellectual exercise but. Spiritual experience.that changes one’s life forever. Even I was healed several times immediately.Also ,I have prayed for people to be healed,And they were healed.It wasn’t me that did the healing ,but the Spirit of God in me.Way over my head ..But True!!
we are now entering a fourth wave of pentecostalism. Many pentecostals are also sick and tired of unsound theological teachings. The core of pentecostalism is rich with doctrines that have been sidelined for populist experiences. In a few years time, you will see a new type of pentecostal that will truly worship in spirit and in truth.
I love pentacostals though I would not dentify strictly with one denomination, I've had Jesus appear to me , seen and experienced many miracles, and can also speak in tongues but keep it very private, I liked his mostly respectful take on the movement, you can tell he's smart and has wisdom and was not just bashing pentacostals , that was refreshing , very common to see baby Christians whining and spewing degenerate things in the comments on media stuff
It sounds as if these guys are always on the outside looking in, never experiencing the power of God. I don’t want to have a mere form of Godliness and deny the power. I want to experience His power and HAVE experienced His power. It is the power of God that is going to keep us in these end times. That power comes through prayer and worship, through faith in His blood, and by the word of God. I don’t think we should negate the gifts God gave his church for edification. I don’t want to be a dead church and I don’t want to be part of the Hype. There is the real.
I grew up in a Christian Pentecostal church, and I assure you not all Pentecostal Christians and Christian churches are the same. True Pentecostal Christian do not a spouse to the faith teaching of the fake prosperity gospel of the eighties and now. There are serious doctrinal differences within the Pentecostal Christian Church (not a movement) but part of the body of Christ and preaching sound Biblical doctrines as compared to any reform churches. Which have the tendency to believe they own the truth of Scripture. Many quoting Calvin more than Jesus. It was not Calvin who gave is life for our sins, but to hear a Reform Teacher tell it. My point being we can not put ALL PENTECOSTAL IN A BASKET, AND LEAVE THE ENTIRE PENTECOSTAL CHURCH IN QUESTION AS THIS PRESENTATION HAS. GOD BLESS YOU AND HELP US ALL.
When the Lord touched me in 1972 I was not hostile to the mainline denominations. My question for those singing “A Mighty Fortress is our God” was, great! I’m in! Where is He? Your mistake in saying the gifts have ceased is the fact that they haven’t ceased. The early church still had signs and wonders, even though some insist they didn’t.
I noticed that he didn’t state the message we preach over that pulpit and not once has my Pastor ever preached Health and Wealth, towards the end he was describing the Prosperity Gospel and Non Denominational movement this is not good insight
If ye seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness You find that He hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: You find the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. End result: You and God the Father Son and Holy Ghost are all in there together. I am forever praising and believing Jesus Christ and this is pleasing to God.
If you are born again the Holy Spirit dwells inside you. The test is not the prayer you prayed to receive Him but the changed mind and changed life that resulted from it. You care about the things God cares about. And, you love where you did not before. These are signs that God lives in you. And it comes to us by the goodness and graciousness of our Lord through believing and trusting in Him. It is not so complicated so that even a child can receive God’s gracious gift. Blessings dear brother
Being born again ,new life ,power of holy spirit is presence in congregation that blessed with gifts of spirit that is written Lord's word,Holy spirit working through believers they have the power to do what is written in scripture, pentecostal believe strongest in Prayer & Fasting as it is written, All are true churches of God head believing in holy Bible teaching of gift of anointment and deliverance blessings for Justice, sanctification Glorifying one true God, Praising scripture gospel brings presence Holy spirit at worshipping, I have been healed mind & body pentecostal preaching & Prayers ,I prayed for a true church to follow ,My prayers are answered by Seeing, hearing, knowing pentecostal churches true teaching of God.🌟😇
Thats so awesome! I grew up in a athiedt family, I was born again in my home randomly after I heard the gosple through my phone, I called upon Jesus and he saved me, I went to a pentecostal vhurch first, but the lord took me out of it fast, as he revealed to me the truth of scriptures I went to a reformed baptist church and its so good. Pentecostal churches are like a night club seriously. Anyway PRAISE OUR LORD JESUS ❤
@@53081church what? Calvinism is absolutly biblical. All throughout the scriptures. I was born again and God heavily leaned me towards reformed theology.
I agree with many of the criticism the Reformed camp has towards "Pentecostals." But they tend to paint Pentecostals with a broad brush. In fact, most of the larger "health and wealth" crowd rejected the title "Pentecostal" long ago. They are basically a separate movement now. When I was licensed with the Louisiana District of the Assemblies of God in the 80's, our district released an official statement condemning "charismatic fads" such as choreographed dancing and banner waving.
That's a good start. But there is much more that needs to be addressed. I was in the AG for 20 years. Some of my family (with two ordained ministers) are still there. There is a dearth of God's Word in the Assemblies. The founding premises going back all the way to the restorationist roots are a real problem and keep members back from so much true wealth in Christ. In my educated opinion.
@@johnortiz566 And a dozen bagels and a loaf of wheat sandwich bread are different. But they share most of the same ingredients and can both be considered "bread" or "baked goods." Pentecostals and Charismatics share many core beliefs, traditions, and practices. Their differences may be significant on the surface, but look underneath and you see a common thread tying them to the same errors. Sadly.
Pentecostalism, such as assemblies of God, say there is a second blessing evidence in tongues those 2 ideas are simply unbiblical and it creates a 2 tier Christianity
Wow! I agree `Word of Faith' ministries are substantially traveling down the wrong path towards a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But after listening to Robert Godfrey blistering, wide ranging, rebuke of Full Gospel churches, I would not be sure he will go in the Rapture. Modern churches, and like Robert Godfrey, seem to pick and choose what gospel verses fit their ideology. I don't believe neither fit the qualities of Romans 8:29. hrist
true... but remember Elijah and the prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18. Who had the most lively and most loud worship? wasn't it the prophets of Baal? and how did Elijah worshipped?
@@JNLENTERPRISE thank God for he’s living word that leads us into all truth we walk by faith not by sight God bless I came out from pentecostal church last year true the word of God.
Thank you, friends, for this video. I appreciate the lecture and observations made. I am afraid, however, that Pentecostals are depicted with generalizations that do not apply to all. I have been involved in different Pentecostal circles and other streams of Christianity. And while I disagree with some of the health and wealth extremes, Pentecostalism could be understood as a people simply desiring to receive all that God has for them. Yes, Pentecostalism features a restorationist motive which is simply an expectation of experiencing what the church in the Book of Acts had.
According to scripture we are baptised into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit it says in one place , in another place it says we are placed in the body of Christ by the "word of God" Which to me in ways is the same thing . To me this is the baptism .
@@CatfishHeaven777 2 Samuel 6:14-15 (ESV) And David danced before the LORD with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting and with the sound of the horn.
Point 3 is a watered down representation of pentecostal theology. We don't assume every time someone stands up to prophesy it's from the Spirit. There's definitely more discussion to be had about the nuance of what we would discern to be authentic... Above all other things, we would say point 1 (the scripture) is the determining factor of authenticity.
22:00- To argue that ' signs and wonders ' are limited by time and space is void ab initio. The Great Commission clearly directs to make disciples. And Jesus said in John 12:14, those who believe in him ie his disciples can perform greater miracles. A plain reading will show that signs and wonders are not limited by time and space, but by lack of faith. Jesus wanted us to love God with heart ,mind, strength and soul. My personal reading is: heart represents emotional relationship, mind represents intellectual conviction about God, strength, represents physical activity for God, and soul represents mystical relationship with God . Pentecostalism caters to all these dimensions of relationship with God. Hence its popularity in non- Christian countries. Reformed churches, alas , take pride only in the intellectual relationship with God. With love from India!
There is no perfect organization even in one proclaiming the gospel. As to the point the good Dr made regarding the Pentecostals not embracing having all things in common, neither have any of the other fellowships or denominations. He doesn’t either. I was raised from 10-1/2 years old in a Pentecostal Church. I saw how the people banded together, helped one another, helped those who were outside of that congregation, like their neighbors. My Dad died when I was 11 years old and the Dads of my friends made certain that I was included, many times, when they took their sons fishing, etc. They Fathered me. They covered me. To speak to the speaker’s ridiculously ignorant cliche’ that the majority of those who embrace Pentecostalism are the uneducated, that is not my experience at all. There were several very successful and educated men and women in our congregation. The various sects of what is called Christianity all have diverse doctrines that they can prove, allegedly, by scripture. But the one thing many of them, including leaders, like Godfrey, bypass is that while The Church may have different departments, aka denominations or fellowships so to speak, there is ONE Chief Cornerstone and his name is Jesus. It is high time that we turn away from those who cause division among the brethren whether they speak eloquently or brashly against the other members of the family of God. Jesus told his disciples one day, “I have sheep that are not of this fold.” The people of Antioch did not call the disciples Baptist because they also baptized new converts as John did. They did not call them Pentecostal because they heard them speak in tongues or interpret those tongues. They called them, Christians, because they did the same works and miracles that Jesus the Christ had performed. Godfrey goes out of his way, as do so many others, to explain away the need for yes, a second blessing of the infilling of the Holy Ghost, when the question was asked of a group of people by the disciples one day, “Have you received the Holy Ghost [SINCE] you believed? Those people were already believers and followers of Jesus and yet they were not filled with the Holy Spirit. Why are we so afraid of accepting a gift being offered by the Lord? It is as if Jesus is standing right there in front of them with the gift in his hand and they look at him and say, “I don’t want it nor do I need your gift.” You can almost hear the slap upon the face of God. I am so glad that I was raised in a Church environment that taught me to desire the things of God and to seek after his gifts. Gifts that have helped me throughout my life. They taught me to study for myself in order that I can be approved into God. They encouraged me to further my education otherwise as well. I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost on December 10, 1965. Yes, I spoke in tongues just as they did on the Day of Pentecost and no, it was not gibberish. I was only 11 years old and my Dad had died 5 months earlier and 15 days after my birthday that year. On the way home from service that night, sitting in the back seat of the car, I said aloud, “I will never be without a father again.” You came too late to tell me it isn’t for me, as a believer, today. Too late. I know better. You should know better too. I am not part of that same denomination anymore but I wouldn’t dare speak against God’s people. Especially in the condescending manner as those such as Godfrey continue to do. May God forgive ministers like him who declare words discounting Pentecostals and their experiences or beliefs. The same goes for those Pentecostals who speak against others who do not share their understanding/experiences of scripture. God will anoint whom God will anoint and he alone will send the reaper to divide the chaff from the wheat at the appointed time. It isn’t our job. Run from those who lie to you and tell you that “the promise” is not unto you nor to your offspring. Because the word of God is true and forever settled in Heaven and it says that the promise is for you. Let God be true and every man, a liar.
While I disagree with a lot of the Pentecostal teachings, I would not dismiss them with the broad brush that Dr. Godfrey did. As for the "poor and uneducated", the Pentecostals are very effective at reaching the disenfranchised of society. That said, the charismatics of today are a far cry from the ones I knew in the 70s or 80s that made the Bible a priority. The NAR teachers with their emphasis on prophetic words from God have created confusion in the charismatic camp.
Why do these classes only have senior citizens, don't the youth want to attend, could it be segregation? because ligonier is the best teaching ministries but according to what I've seen so far, they seem not to welcome the youth. Why so if I'm correct?
The Oneness church is Pentecostal also. We attended once and they told my wife if we join she was not allowed to cut her hair and I was not allowed to watch TV on Sunday. I said; "but wait, the big game is on tonight!". It doesn't matter they said. "Yea, but it's the Saints!".
I really dont think this is a laughing matter. People are going to hell for eternity because they believe the blasphemous oneness pentecostal doctrines.
@@gigiis526 I agree. I was using a little humor to demonstrate the absurdity of the Oneness position, to make them think. There was more to the conversation that I did not get into.
Yeah, he mentioned that there was a branch of Pentecostals called "Oneness". My (Pentecostal/Assembly of God) church wasn't like that at all, in general I didn't have any major problems with it like Prosperity Gospel or "you must be able to speak in tongues or you're not saved". The biggest issue later on was they focused more on growth than good Gospel. but it still wasn't really Prosperity Gospel at that time.
One question though, do reformed theologians not believe that gift of speaking of tongues can be present today at all? I am not speaking about the pentecostal view of juat speaking gibberish but the true form of actually speaking a language that someone else hears in their native language? Also do you all not believe in the casting out of demons?
An old woman once said to me. Pray in tongues, maybe the Lord will give me an explanation? The "red light" wake up me immediately, so what to do? I started speaking pig German and the old woman explained until I stop. After this incident, I will never believe these so called rebaptized. "Red light" means the Holy Spirit. I respect the Holy Spirit and why I don't mention his name so often is the Pentecostals
There is a UA-cam channel, The Remnant Radio, that is run by Pentecostals that comes from a balanced view in that they examine the extremes and judge some of the prophetic words spoken throughout the past year through the lens of scripture and hold the person who spoke the word accountable.
I thought there should be no any other foundation other than that which was laid. Should we not then build on the apostolic foundation. Our biblical interpretation should be based on the apostalic teaching, which confirms the gospels. Didn't Jess us promised the we shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes, we shall be witness to him, as out demons, lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.? Just my thoughts.
I didn't have any serious problems with my Pentecostal church. My family ultimately stopped leaving not due to doctrine but because of personal issues. We attended that church for over 20 years. The only issue I recall seeing is that later on, they focused more on trying to get more people to attend church while not focusing as much on actually teaching the scripture. It wasn't really "prosperity gospel" but it still was going in a bad direction I think.
Is it not true that God wants His people to know Him and experience Him not only intellectually but also personally, even closer than a familial relationship? You cannot tell me that you do not get emotional around your closest loved ones. Oh, that would be missing out on life itself. Please don’t discount the relationship your brothers and sisters are having with their Maker, or you may be like the prodigals brother and miss out too. Enjoy Him for ever brother in Christ.
@@jrconway3 I see this all over so many drifting towards a more merchant style church. Great pressure upon leaders to fill the seats in order to pay the bills. I love the word, and expository preaching. Teaching through the books of the Bible. Discipleship geared more toward relationship one on one and the older engaging the younger to encourage and help them grow. The early church seamed to be more organic that way. Much of the institutionalized church has become cold indifferent and has seamed to lose her first love. I pray right now that you find a great Bible believing Spirit filled church.
Much of this is true. However, some of this is pandering to reformed ears. An oddball example of a pastor from LA to disclaim community, for instance, does not reflect the majority. Many AG church services and lectures are completely unrecognizable from this very one.
@@gigiis526 Please, rethink posting this comment under every person who comments. John MacArthur and Justin Peters are dispensational Baptists, "Calvinistic-y" but not Reformed. Dr. W. Robert Godfrey is president emeritus of Westminster Seminary, CA., Ph.D in church history. He is also now the President of the Ligonier Board......hand-picked by R. C. Sproul. Have you listened to this lecture? Or are you just posting a comment to get people to listen to John MacArthur and Justin Peters?
The ignorance on the generalizing of all Pentecostals. 😓Let’s just say God decreed the Pentecostals to be the way they are, meant for damnation according to Calvin.
Dr. Godfrey, that was a brilliant lecture or sermon whichever. When you were talking about the argument Christian sometimes make against atheist who say that it's not true it's make-believe and they use examples of things that happened in the service or in their life to prove that God is real oh, that I believe is a mistake, because Jesus himself said the kingdom of God does not come by observation. And somehow many Christians have moved into the idea that it does come by observation and you can prove it by healing and by speaking in tongues and by other things because of what happened in the early Church in the book of Acts. But Jesus said it is within you that is something that is not seen it does not come by observation we live by faith and the ones that can't understand it will not be saved, and that has nothing to do with us it is of the Lord and it's marvelous and a mystery. But that's just me oh, I could be wrong.
@@dahelmang excellent point my friend, but also remember that this was a very very beginning of the church and they were learning how to walk by faith and not by sight, and the flesh is always there trying to get in it's $0.02 but the real truth is , we live by faith without faith it's impossible to please God we do not need to see anything we believe the written word and it is Anchored in our hearts and we walk by faith in it. But like I said that's just me.
@@donsimonds5186 well that's what other religions have to do because they are not true so blind faith is all they have. We worship the one true God so we don't need blind faith.
my response would have been different to( dahelmang)if you had of told me we were talking about Blind Faith. Because you see blind faith is believing something without any substance at all, the Bible says, not me, the Bible , says the just shall live by faith and that we are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves, it is a gift from God, it cometh by hearing the word of God, it has all the substance that God has ever spoken in it, it is not blind, it is not empty, the faith you're talking about is more empty and worthless because , if it is not supported in the scriptures, it is not true, but that's just me LOL aren't I silly?
This message is from part 6 of Dr. Godfrey’s study series A Survey of Church History. Watch the entire series: www.ligonier.org/learn/series/a-survey-of-church-history-part-6
In
I can't afford to pay for it.
Retired, I live off of $13,620 a year, paying rent.
I did just get a $90 a month increase in social security in January, and that was really appreciated. But still I can't justify the $40 or so expense for the series.
But thanks for making it available for those that can.
Even my internet is a gift from someone else who offered it to me.
I'm appreciative for it too.
This is the most appropriate comment on pentacostalism. I learn alot from this presentation. I have listened to several presentations on history and pentecostalism. The cessationism were the worst commentators. Their interpretation is bad. Dr. Godfrey, I don’t know he is a reform scholar or not, is well balance and well done.
@@YogiBear-il8es I just clicked the link. The church history series is free content from the Ligonier website. Peace & blessings! ✝️🙏
my wife is a Pentecostal and i'm a Baptist. We both love Jesus! 🙏
Ironically, nothing about Pentecostalism and Baptistism is incompatible. I'm a Baptist in the truest and oldest sense of the term and very much also pentecostal.
Amen❤
There are genuine believers within the pentecostal community that value sanctification, holiness, and study the scriptures diligently...it's not just the Reformed camp.
I agree! Than I would ask this question.
Why aren't they coming up with the same understanding.
Is it culture?
Is tradition?
Is stubbornness?
What is holding them back from leaving erroneous views.
Views that are not Biblical.
And views that are Spiritually abusive and damaging to the body.
@@robertocastro2549 to be honest I feel that tradition has ALOT to do with it. For some folks tradition and sound doctrine are the same...they are unable to differentiate between the two.
@@lplapuri true that. It's difficult too separate for some people because they are attached to their culture a little to much. As it identifies then as person.
So they may run the risk of being emotional and not being to be honest with self to have clarity.
I went through this process.
I was first introduced to Christianity through a Pentacostal church.
It's honestly just leaving everything you know at the door and relearning everything over again.
It's very enlightened and so many burdens have come doing this.
@@robertocastro2549 I’ve been to both baptize and Pentecost churches and some baptist have swollen heads and there hearts have shrunk. They don’t show love anymore they just say God bless you but don’t look for your needs. They hurt people with the Truth and don’t provide Love with the truth. Borderline pride. But there are some Baptist like Paul Washer who put emphasis on Prayer this man is a man of God who not only preaches the Truth but also shows love by looking for your needs.
@@robertocastro2549 it's easy for people to come to different views. That requires no explanation. Which ones are you referring to as abusive?
I came to the Lord in a Pentecostal Church and was delivered from drugs, healed in my mind and body. When Jesus filled me with His Spirit and I spoke in tongues a flood light was turned on in my heart changing my life completely. The things I used to love like drugs, sin, I now hate. The things I used to hate like goodness, righteousness, I now love. There was no promise of health and wealth but a promise of eternal life and forgiveness of sins. That was 50 years ago and Jesus has walked with me every step of the way.
And there are so many more with testimonials just like this. I really like reformed teachers, even while knowing their views on the gifts of the Spirit. What I find interesting is that the reformed people correctly point out how the gospel of prosperity takes scripture out of context, the reformed view of the gifts of the Spirit being "sign gifts" for apostles, does the exact same thing! Prosperity is all through the Bible when read in context. Even the history of the early church is selective. Gifts of the Spirit continued through out history. Pretty much every century has it's "charismatic revival" with gifts of the Spirit recorded for historians to discover.
which language did you speak?
I agree with you. I have almost the same testimony. The way JESUS touched my heart was supernatural and filled me with his love. HE IS REAL.. I love my JESUS he is everything in my life. He fills me with life every day.
I love my reformed brothers and sisters in Christ! I have learned so much through reformed doctrine. It’s puzzling to some when they find out that I am a Pentecostal pastor and my favorite ministers to listen to are Paul Washer, Voddie Baucham and R.C. Sproul. His generalization of Pentecostalism is not as big of an issue as the damage being done by the charismatic preachers of health and wealth gospel. So preach on friend!
Throughout the years I have been to many Pentecostal churches (and there are plenty here in Romania) and I have never heard the 'health and wealth' promise as exposed here. Maybe it applies mostly to American churches, I don't know. We pray for healing if it is God's will. Also, some congregations can be surprisingly quiet :) but in general 'Amens' and light forms of 'preach it, brother' are appreciated.
I agree, not all the Pentecostal Churches are the same and not all Churches have the pentecostal on their name, he just put them all in the same group. The same way Reform theology is a different way of Protestant.
@Cristina Pavel Mr. Godfrey seems to be describing a lot of tv charismatic/pentecostal preaching, but not necessarily the local church beliefs. I have been a part of several Pentecostal churches in the US and some of them preached more of the "health" than "wealth" nearly to the point of saying that if someone doesn't get healed, it's due to a lack of faith (which I disagree with). Also, there seems to be an emphasis on tongues and getting emotional during worship. In reality, emotions may or may not always be evident during worship. Just like any denomination or religion, there are extremes in Pentecostalism.
My family ran a pentecostal ministry, and yeah, they'll never say that, yet it's in their hearts. I had to ask multiple questions about why they believe and God and what certain verses mean and such, eventually they admitted they live for God because God is happy and loving to make us wealthy, healthy and that God made us to live a life of abundance, as in a life having lots of health and money. So many of them believe that, they just won't say it straight out like that. They don't seem to show greediness and rather seem sacrificial until their sacrifice won't have the person or someone returning the favor with money or at least a compliment. They must have something eventually that they expect in return for their sacrifices or they'll stop helping in that particular situation. So, it kinda takes a lot to get to see that side of their beliefs. But I'm sure that's not every pentecostal, that's just my own family and some others I know who are pentecostals and even run a ministry.
@@VYMQGSOH are you here in the US?
This is because the American Church and others here in the West are materially wealthy. So sadly the “Prosperity Gospel “ originated in the USA.
I also grew up in a classical pentecostal church. I was in the church of Pentecost, Ghana 🇬🇭🔥 where I learnt a lot of pentecostal theology for almost 20years. Thanks for the series. I am now in a reformed church over here in Ghana.
I was born in a reformed church , grew in pentecostal circles and I now fellowship in a Baptist church. I am glad that I have a bit of both worlds , I wish there is more real human relationships in pentecostalism but I also wish reformers had more excitement about the word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit .
I had the reverse experience of growing up in a very heavily charismatic back ground then growing a lot in my faith in reformed circles. I am now finishing my undergrad and about to go to Baptist seminary @Talent Chuma
@@ryane5618 Praise the Lord brother! I hope seminary goes well with you!
Up north where reformed churches are rare, there is a lot of excitement because the youth found reformed teaching on their own and scrambled to find those churches
what do you mean about have more excitement about the Holy Spirit? What do you expect them to make the Holy Spirit do might be right question or whatever you meant?
@@respectingthewordpodcast Well, as someone who was raised Pentecostal, the "first wave" type:) I think basically he's referring to worship and praise. Scriptures like, "come into his house with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise" and "make a joyful noise unto the Lord," "clap your hands all you people" one preacher said it this way, "you get on your feet for a guitar my God you ought to get on your head for the preaching. Music will make you feel better, but preaching will save you. Preaching will bring the glory of God down" LOL!
As a survivor of Pentecostalism, I say give me Jesus. Let me talk of Christ and Him crucified.
God's written Word is vastly richer than any "prophecies" overzealous man can imagine. I can't tell you how thrilled I was to learn the Solas. And to learn about early church history. And to hear historical church creeds for the first time. And to understand how the Divinity of Christ relates to the Trinity.
As a Pentecostal, I knew next to nothing about my Christian Faith. And I thought I knew much. Such pride. Sigh.
Thank God for His mercy!!
I grew up in a traditional Pentecostal church. We were encouraged not to have TVs in our home. I was on vacation and there was a TV in our hotel room. I turned it on and saw a Praise the Lord program with Tammy Fay Baker. I watched it for 10 minutes before I realized it was a Christian program. So unlike what I saw in church. The churches today have gone off the deep end with the health and wealth teachings and all the prophecies coming from ministers. I was taught God can heal today, but it wasn’t a guaranteed promise. We were to ask but it was left to God’s will. I do not watch the Christian TV today. It’s given Christianity a bad name.
@Patricia Cunningham I agree.
Good stuff.
No brainer.
@@thomastyler5582 vyingj
@@zuzanagallo3315 im not sure what vyingj means
Grew up in Pentecostalism in the 70s. Reality observed and Scripture taught me that it was not true. Reformed today, and happy to be here !!!
I love the faith and am very happy with my PCA church I'm a member of. Thank you Ligonier Ministries and Mr. Godfrey for teaching about God and His holiness. I wouldn't have made it without God leading me to deepen my faith with sound theology and infinite love. God bless you ❤
Thank you for this teaching. I must say that the Lord has brought me out of these movements that you speak of and when He began to open my eyes it was a painful process, however; I am forever grateful that He has done so. I continue on this journey to understand the church history and truly be a believer with knowledge and not moved by my emotions being tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. God bless you!
Amen.
I was AG for over 40 years...they don't or didn't lie about planting church numbers back in 84. I have no idea how they are doing now but I have a solid biblical foundation.
I came to the realization that the biggest pressence of God is in His Word. The “catch” is that you will only know of this truth if you are a newborn creature of the Kingdom. Once you are Born Again you understand why Christ and many other brothers relentlessly preached “You must be born again!”.
What about the presence of God in His people too?
@@rockwild737 of course the presence of God is in his people but we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that is a witness to the world or that it is a tool to win the Lost, it is not. Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God. This is God's doing and it's marvelous in our sight , it's a mystery and the secret things belong to God, we are commanded to preach the word to win the souls, what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul. The witness or presence of God in his church in each believer is for them, it's for you it does not convert anybody, Jesus pointed out in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man that even though one raised from the dead if they don't believe Moses and the prophets, written word they will not even believe one risen from the dead.
@@donsimonds5186 i agree with you but also, are we not witnesses to the world? Are we not to let the light of Christ shine out of you to the glory of God the Father? Matt. 5:14-16?
you have been made a new creation, by the indwelling presence of The Spirit in you. That Spirit testifies to your spirit of truths you read and hear spoken from The Scriptures. It is not a stand alone process, of just reading the Bible.
@@rockwild737 God is in those who are born again. God speaks to his elect through his word. If you claim anything outside of that you are claiming new revelation.
After leaving the Roman Catholic Church I could never be under a Pentecostal church. In many ways they are similar. I finally found the truth at its best after God led me to reformed theology.
If ye seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness
You find that He hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
You find the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
End result: You and God the Father Son and Holy Ghost are all in there together.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus Christ and this is pleasing to God.
Tritheism. Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Acts 238
Is the word ghost used in the scriptures?
@@stacystarnes1449 not sure what your question means?
Great video. I don't think the argument that miracles, gifts and healings were only for the foundation of the church, however, is very strong. The scripture is fairly clear that the gifts were given to edify the church (meaning the body of believers). The need for edification did not stop when the church was fully established. The ability for believers to speak into each others' lives when moved by the Holy Spirit is simply how the church is supposed to work. We are members of Christ and one another. To deny this ability simply because it doesn't fit our world view means we miss out on the richness of the Christian life.
Rev 19:10 … the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Modern day prophets speak by the same spirit as earlier ones. The spirit that is typing this confesseth that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh”.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus Christ and this is pleasing to God.
Agreed. Perhaps our rationalistic worldview keeps us from embracing a supernatural world that is so much part of the Scriptures. I have found the work of Charles Kraft very helpful in helping Christians understand the supernatural dimension of Christianity.
A community of emotion is so important. Thanks.
The Bible alone is the word of God. 2 Timothy 3:16.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, - 2 Timothy 3:16
That's not what it says. Don't misquote Scripture. It's the Word of God. It deserves more respect.
Please don’t lump all Pentecostal’s in the prosperity and treat God as a genie and he gives me everything I want.
My wife is Pentecostal and I am Roman Catholic. We both love Jesus
I grew up in a pentecostal church in Germany. When I spent a few years in the U.S. during my 20s I realised I have not much in common with charismatic/pentecostal churches there and started listening to reformed preachers. It seems to me that the "health and wealth gospel" is mainly an American problem but sadly it's being exported.
It's not anymore an American problem. I am German.
To his point about culture (i was raised CRC), when all the refored churches closed there doors in my area during covid it was a Pentecostal church that remained open and where i went and remained with today. They activity follow Christ over culture and the core value of meeting for church over principality's of fear that so many let rule them for a time.
We ask "what is our authority." Our feelings or the Word of God? In our Bible Presbyterian church we were taught from the Scriptures that God's Word is our authority. Praise God. Thank you Dr. Godfrey. The Lord bless you richly always.
The Pentecostals believe the bible is the supreme infallible authority word of God and rule of faith.
Peter said in 2 Peter 1:18-19, the Word plus the Spirit. Without the Spirit, yuou don't belong to Jesus. Romans 8:9
I grew up in the Pentecostal Holiness movement. Some out of the Azusa street movement and some from Wesleyan doctrine of the second blessing.
Seeing the spirit of God move in people is what attracts me to Pentecostalism. The spirit of God is literally felt and it’s amazing and transforming.
It's not the Spirit, or it wouldn't be confined to Pentecostals, and the miracles would be openly verified.
What do you see? Falling out? Tongues? Holy laughter? What is the unclean spirits name is the question. Satan has done a fine job of convincing people that they can have pentecost today! He masquerades as an angel of light.
@@gigiis526 you can feel peace in a super natural way. I understand what your saying but that is not the case for all Pentecostalism.
@@JNLENTERPRISE The bottom like is scripture. We base everything on God's word. If it's not biblical than it shouldn't be apart of our Christian walk.
@@rsm1161 amen
Psalms 150 praise the Lord it never ceased or removed from the Church.
One day we all will be standing before the Heavenly Judge and He will not ask us the difference between the Pentecostals, Baptists, the Reformd, etc. He will rather tell us: "I look at you and see My righteous Son Jesus".
True true.. but we are commanded to study the scriptures to show ourselves approved before God. These pentecostals need to read their bible
@@areviktaymizyan8174 Arevik, are you based in Armenia? Your judgement of Pentecostalism is almost true but a little bit biased. Sorry.
@@areviktaymizyan8174 I have been born again in a Pentecostal church in Vanadzor. With a pain in my heart I can see that what you say is right. Too sad. Simply I don't want to witness any strife between the Pentecostals and others. There is so much unbelief and neopaganism around. May God spare us from all evil.
@@areviktaymizyan8174 I am. I was born there. For more than 20 years I have been cooperating with the Reformed Churches of North America. I've translated a number of books into Armenian. Now my beliefs tend more to the Reformed Christianity. But I do attend the Pentecostal church here. I can't abandon them; it would be like denouncing your mom and dad, wouldn't it?
@@areviktaymizyan8174 I wrote my contact but it won't show in the replies. Can you see it?
A reasonable if not a little simplistic overview of Pentecostalism. As a Canadian Pentecostal Pastor I would argue the Pentecostal movement is large and diverse; from relatively conservative and bible based to more hyper charismatic and not so bible based. I would definitely agree the community aspect of this teaching is often true, people do come and go.
Feel free to listen to his other lectures. This is only a survey of them.
In my city, there's a little pocket of 4 pentacostal churches. I was very close with some families who attended these churches. It seems to be very common place for these families to jump around to different churches each week. Whereas I've grown up in the same church for 27 years. The community experience is very different. I'm curious if this is fairly common in the movement? :)
@@LaniakeaLeathercrafts Hi Noah. I would say in my experience - 38 years of pastoring, the answer is yes. Of course I have no written and studied material to prove it; but I would suggest my pastoral expertise qualifies me to speak to my experiences in 3 cities. I’m not sure the reasons but would suggest some in Pentecostalism want the extreme hyper Pentecostal experience; some want a church that is more missional and bounce around to find it; some look for their flavour and some just bounce around because they’re not rooted. Lots of reasons I suppose but I believe some Pentecostal foundations built on too much experience and not enough theology about community, Christ-centeredness and sound doctrine. An examination at each church is worthwhile.
One of the things I missed most from being a Charismatic/Pentecostal was the reverence for the things of God, particularly the communion, and baptism. We were trying so hard not to look "religious" that sometimes I saw people crossing into irreverence, treating Jesus like the guy next door. I recaptured much of the awe and reverence of God in confessional Lutheranism--a radical departure from my previous church affiliation!
Angels shout w/the voice of a trumpet. No shouting in your church, no angels
@@53081church that's utter nonsense.
@@joshuatheo1419 Read Job 38:4-7 and use your concordance to looko at the word 'sang'. Also, I suggest you get a blessing and read the book of Revelation. Heaven is rarely silent, only 1/2 hour.
@@53081church If you are looking only for noise ... seems you found it. I'm seeking Jesus in all His depth and glory. And I found Him. Or rather, He found me.
@@sandigrace2271 God chooses people's delusion.
I am a biblical Christian. What about David Wilkerson and Leonard Ravenhill? They were Pentecostal and hated prosperity gospel.
Exactly. Both were modern day Puritans. Ravenhill was even Calvinist-leaning.
@@eflint1 Ravenhill wasn’t a Pentecostal in that he didn’t speak in tongues, but he did have roots in protopentecostal holiness, Wesleyan, and Puritan revivalist theology. His biography notes that he did have 7 reported cancer healings in a row when he prayed for people. But he loathed televangelism and the prosperity gospel. He had nuance and balance - something both the charismatic and reformed worlds too often lack :/
David Wilkerson was a false teacher.
@@joshuatheo1419 how can you say that? Why do you say that?
Wilkerson was Assembly of God; Ravenhill was connected with the Salvation Army in the UK and the Wesleyan holiness movement.
I'm a Pentecostal and we don't always shout during our services, there are also times of silence. Remember that David danced before the Lord and people shouted to the Lord in victory. If we can shout when a team makes a touchdown, how much more should we (within reason) give a shout and praise to God for saving our souls? I don't think Heaven is going to be a quiet place :).
My grandfather used to be a pentecostal pastor, and he was a very calm preacher. Everyone mostly remained silent during preaching without ever shooting except during some singing. Yet, I have been to other pentecostal chapels where they shout, speak in tongues that no one can translate, and rarely some do a little running around. There's a pentecostal chapel I've seen but have not attended as their sign has a motto saying "Come and experience the difference." I'm convinced they're deeply focused on spiritual feelings and experiences.
So some pentecostals do that stuff, but not all. Yet, I find stuff like this also in other denominations. People don't act the same way each chapel just because they're the same denomination.
Yet, there's also multiple types of pentecostals, baptists, etc.
@Chad, Did the Jews shout during synagogue services? Do you know the liturgy that was followed in the synagogues?
You have missed the point entirely. Look up John MacArthurs 'Strange Fire 'conference and also Justen Peters 'clouds without water.' You will be blessed with alot of wisdom
David didn’t shout and dance in the temple or synagogue
@@VYMQGSOH The way my church worked is this. We would start with worship (singing songs, everyone would stand up and sing), then we'd have "fellowship" where everyone gets up and greets one another. I think once a month we had communion right after this. The rest of the service was a sermon, everyone sat down and remained quite while our Pastor spoke the sermon of the day.
At some point during the service they'd usually have a "speaking in tongues" segment (I never knew what it was, I just heard gibberish, which I understand now is what it REALLY was). While there was a speaking in tongues segment, I'm pretty sure it was pre-planned during the service and it wasn't a completely random thing. They would usually end with one more song and a prayer.
Some people would speak out loud with an "amen" or "praise Jesus" during prayers, but otherwise people generally kept quiet during the services.
Pentecostal ism is the reason why China has over 200000000 Christians in the country beginning soon after the Azusa revival in Las Angeles.Brazil also has 100s of Foursquare churches because people not only believe in the Holy Spirit but are baptized in the Holy Spirit,receiving many Spiritual gifts.The Holy Spirit actually living in people!
Pentecostals one of their beliefs in the congregation of the church is tithing which is in the scripture, Preaching and interpreting the true word of God blessing the congregation with the real meaning of scripture is a form of speaking in tongue also worshiping scripture gospel is another form of speaking in tongue , we blessed congregation do interpret the message 🌟❤️
Not all Pentecostals teach the modern-day "tithing," which is a false doctrine.
Evil , wickedness are in all churches, true doctrines ,false doctrine your deception is against true doctrines pentecostal churches are true doctrines, deceitful leaders of Christianity are slim and few, you discredited true doctrines.
As an Indian Christian I see the following ; The third wave Pentecostalism is more like the Hinduism with a Christian front; Most Hindu sadhus attract devotees with promises of earthly blessings- health, wealth and success; the practice of speaking in tongues is more like that practiced by idol worshippers with cult practices.
Would you consider translating or allowing the video collaboratively to be translated into Spanish?
This video and the previous one on Aimee Semple McPherson would be, without careless hyperbole, extremely profitable and helpful for the Latin American church.
That is in light of the widespread charismatic and prosperity movements that thrive there without knowledge of their historical origins. I come from Mexico and had never heard a single allusion to the roots of pentecostalism's views and development. In that regard, these lessons are true eye openers.
These videos actually give a very tainted view of the historic roots of the Pentecostal movement because the goal is to give a very negative impression. The same could easily be done to the Reformers and especially John Calvin and his behaviour in Geneva. I think we need to look more closely at the balance of the scriptures, and realize that the ones given in this video offer no support for the cessationist views they promote.
@@bornagainbach2731 you don’t know the historic roots of Pentecostalism. The early Pentecostals believed the gifts were being restored not continuing. It’s only been since the 70s Pentecostalism changed its teachings to the gifts never ceased. Fighting For The Faith channel has a video on this and he shares what they wrote in their own books concerning this. I don’t remember the title of the video.
God is present in His Word which is alive and our born again spirit, not our flesh rejoices. There are many different forms of rejoicing but there should be self control, which is a fruit of the Spirit. Our outward expression should display our inward blessing. That being said, do everything in moderation and exhaltation to God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit.
The truth is, the prosperity gospel is more rampant in Pentecostal churches, but many of us are committed to teaching against it.
A question to consider is why traditional Pentecostalism has obsessed over end times eschatology. The idea of returning to New Testament Christianity has a kind of persecution complex where it insists that any real expression of Christianity must be measured by miracles and mass conversions. The first Christians were subjected to cruel persecutions and marginalized by the dominant religions of the day. The Jews lived under a brutal Roman occupier that tolerated no rivals to its claim. Pentecostals, like most reformed evangelicals, see themselves as "sojourners," who do not belong to this world. Their culture is one frozen in time and ever ready to escape imminent tribulation. To such this is all that can be hoped for hence a heavy reliance on the power of God as a means of coping with these seemingly permanent realties.
A friend of mine would ALWAYS wear a dress ( below the knee). She would never be without a hat. She would never utter a word. It's for the man to speak for the family. I dearly love her and admire how she feels she needs to show respect inside of the church. It's not a Pentecostal church. I have been to one but it wasn't for me.
She is followingDeut 22:5....get a bible and look it up
"Be not overly righteous, and do not make yourself too wise. Why should you destroy yourself?Be not overly wicked, neither be a fool. Why should you die before your time?It is good that you should take hold of this, and from that withhold not your hand, for the one who fears God shall come out from both of them. - Ecclesiastes 7:16-18
We must always be careful not to fall into legalism in our attempts to avoid sin.
1 Cor 13
1
If I speak in the tongues [1] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3
If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, [2] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9
For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10
but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
If only Calvinists would show love then they would be complete.
God will bless us Pentecostals continually.
Excellent description of Pentecostals. As usual Ligonier has some of the best teaching on the internet!
What a DOA theologian
He is deceitful , he publicly speaking as all churches are not a true word of God's teaching foundation of Pentecostal is true works of Holy spirit ,one only Father in heaven.🌟😇
Wow. This is such a broad and generalized view of Pentecostalism. It’s like saying all Baptists are the same. Reformed or not. So judgmental. DOA teaching. And to say people are uneducated? My wife is going for her masters at Winebrenner Theological Seminary and University of Findlay. She gets A’s! Do you claim she’s uneducated? Be careful pointing fingers, for there will be three more pointing back at you. I pray the Holy Spirit gives everyone true knowledge. I grew up as a Jehovah’s Witness and I remember similar claims from them about other religions and how theirs is totally the truth and no one else is right. I got away from that cult and got saved by Jesus. Be careful of singular minded thinking. AG and Pentecostalism are not all the same. We don’t run around and jump in the pews, nor are we uneducated. This is the most spirit led church I have ever been in. I see the fruits of the spirit daily. Our pastor teaches sound, biblical doctrine. I don’t know where you get some of your talking points but they are way off. God bless!🙏🏻✝️🐟
@@53081churchwhat do you mean by that phrase?
Old man has passed away praise Jesus, I am Baptist and saved. Old things is passed away
There is a community in the pentecostal church. Some churches have more turnover than others because of their location and the nature of their membership. Even in Reformed churches in large metropolitan areas, it's sometimes hard to keep up with the coming and going because people move to and from the area so often.
The Apostles all were Pentecostal beginning on the Feast of Pentecost.Even the Early Church was Pentecostal. Jesus wanted everyone to be baptized in the Holy Spirit ,the Holy Spirit of God living in human beings.Ones life changes dramatically after the baptism of the HS. It’s not an intellectual exercise but. Spiritual experience.that changes one’s life forever. Even I was healed several times immediately.Also ,I have prayed for people to be healed,And they were healed.It wasn’t me that did the healing ,but the Spirit of God in me.Way over my head ..But True!!
we are now entering a fourth wave of pentecostalism. Many pentecostals are also sick and tired of unsound theological teachings. The core of pentecostalism is rich with doctrines that have been sidelined for populist experiences. In a few years time, you will see a new type of pentecostal that will truly worship in spirit and in truth.
I love pentacostals though I would not dentify strictly with one denomination, I've had Jesus appear to me , seen and experienced many miracles, and can also speak in tongues but keep it very private, I liked his mostly respectful take on the movement, you can tell he's smart and has wisdom and was not just bashing pentacostals , that was refreshing , very common to see baby Christians whining and spewing degenerate things in the comments on media stuff
It sounds as if these guys are always on the outside looking in, never experiencing the power of God. I don’t want to have a mere form of Godliness and deny the power. I want to experience His power and HAVE experienced His power. It is the power of God that is going to keep us in these end times. That power comes through prayer and worship, through faith in His blood, and by the word of God. I don’t think we should negate the gifts God gave his church for edification. I don’t want to be a dead church and I don’t want to be part of the Hype. There is the real.
I grew up in a Christian Pentecostal church, and I assure you not all Pentecostal Christians and Christian churches are the same. True Pentecostal Christian do not a spouse to the faith teaching of the fake prosperity gospel of the eighties and now. There are serious doctrinal differences within the Pentecostal Christian Church (not a movement) but part of the body of Christ and preaching sound Biblical doctrines as compared to any reform churches. Which have the tendency to believe they own the truth of Scripture. Many quoting Calvin more than Jesus. It was not Calvin who gave is life for our sins, but to hear a Reform Teacher tell it. My point being we can not put ALL PENTECOSTAL IN A BASKET, AND LEAVE THE ENTIRE PENTECOSTAL CHURCH IN QUESTION AS THIS PRESENTATION HAS.
GOD BLESS YOU AND HELP US ALL.
When the Lord touched me in 1972 I was not hostile to the mainline denominations. My question for those singing “A Mighty Fortress is our God” was, great! I’m in! Where is He? Your mistake in saying the gifts have ceased is the fact that they haven’t ceased. The early church still had signs and wonders, even though some insist they didn’t.
Iam the righteous of God in Christ
1 cor 1:19-27 . The point is God intended for his word to be understood, especially by the hungry and sincere of heart.
I noticed that he didn’t state the message we preach over that pulpit and not once has my Pastor ever preached Health and Wealth, towards the end he was describing the Prosperity Gospel and Non Denominational movement this is not good insight
Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is biblical. Look at the Book of Acts and I Corinthians.
thank you
Look at Acts 19:2
A remarkably concise evaluation 🤔
He's a follower of the murderer Jean Calvin. Calvinists, the most intolerant people on the planet next to Shia Muslims
I thought God was present inside all true believers in the person of the Holy Spirit... like literally dwelling inside of the believers.
He is ❤ somewhere in there lol. I think his in the heart. Yay
If ye seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness
You find that He hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
You find the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
End result: You and God the Father Son and Holy Ghost are all in there together.
I am forever praising and believing Jesus Christ and this is pleasing to God.
If you are born again the Holy Spirit dwells inside you. The test is not the prayer you prayed to receive Him but the changed mind and changed life that resulted from it. You care about the things God cares about. And, you love where you did not before. These are signs that God lives in you. And it comes to us by the goodness and graciousness of our Lord through believing and trusting in Him. It is not so complicated so that even a child can receive God’s gracious gift. Blessings dear brother
Being born again ,new life ,power of holy spirit is presence in congregation that blessed with gifts of spirit that is written Lord's word,Holy spirit working through believers they have the power to do what is written in scripture, pentecostal believe strongest in Prayer & Fasting as it is written, All are true churches of God head believing in holy Bible teaching of gift of anointment and deliverance blessings for Justice, sanctification Glorifying one true God, Praising scripture gospel brings presence Holy spirit at worshipping, I have been healed mind & body pentecostal preaching & Prayers ,I prayed for a true church to follow ,My prayers are answered by Seeing, hearing, knowing pentecostal churches true teaching of God.🌟😇
Yes there's people who are believers in spite of the bad theology,
Excellent study.
"Not TOO much excitement". That's funny. He never laughs at his own jokes, but I do. I like him.
Every false doctrine I was taught that was purged from me after I was born again, was taught to me by a Pentecostal "teacher".
Thats so awesome! I grew up in a athiedt family, I was born again in my home randomly after I heard the gosple through my phone, I called upon Jesus and he saved me, I went to a pentecostal vhurch first, but the lord took me out of it fast, as he revealed to me the truth of scriptures I went to a reformed baptist church and its so good. Pentecostal churches are like a night club seriously. Anyway PRAISE OUR LORD JESUS ❤
amen ... all Calvinists churches are shrinking rapidly....DoA religion
@@53081church what? Calvinism is absolutly biblical. All throughout the scriptures. I was born again and God heavily leaned me towards reformed theology.
Same here
@@53081church watch Andrew farley God without religion on UA-cam
I agree with many of the criticism the Reformed camp has towards "Pentecostals." But they tend to paint Pentecostals with a broad brush. In fact, most of the larger "health and wealth" crowd rejected the title "Pentecostal" long ago. They are basically a separate movement now. When I was licensed with the Louisiana District of the Assemblies of God in the 80's, our district released an official statement condemning "charismatic fads" such as choreographed dancing and banner waving.
That's a good start. But there is much more that needs to be addressed. I was in the AG for 20 years. Some of my family (with two ordained ministers) are still there.
There is a dearth of God's Word in the Assemblies. The founding premises going back all the way to the restorationist roots are a real problem and keep members back from so much true wealth in Christ. In my educated opinion.
@@johnortiz566 And a dozen bagels and a loaf of wheat sandwich bread are different. But they share most of the same ingredients and can both be considered "bread" or "baked goods."
Pentecostals and Charismatics share many core beliefs, traditions, and practices. Their differences may be significant on the surface, but look underneath and you see a common thread tying them to the same errors. Sadly.
Pentecostalism, such as assemblies of God, say there is a second blessing evidence in tongues
those 2 ideas are simply unbiblical and it creates a 2 tier Christianity
Wow! I agree `Word of Faith' ministries are substantially traveling down the wrong path towards a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But after listening to Robert Godfrey blistering, wide ranging, rebuke of Full Gospel churches, I would not be sure he will go in the Rapture. Modern churches, and like Robert Godfrey, seem to pick and choose what gospel verses fit their ideology. I don't believe neither fit the qualities of Romans 8:29.
hrist
Amen, good Word.
Not much of a case for cessationism, but the history is good.
So do you believe in tongues, faith healing, and being frozen in the spirit?
@@joshhigdon4951 I don't know. This just isn't convincing.
The case for cessationism is the absence of the miracles.
@@dahelmang Look up John MacArthurs 'Strange Fire 'conference and also Justen Peters 'clouds without water.' You will be blessed with alot of wisdom.
@@heshimucolar7174 that doesn't support absolute cessationism, only a decrease in how common the gifts are.
Shout to the lord all the earth let them sing. If you are alive and not dead praise the king! Dead don’t worship. We are alive! Worship the king!
God is spirit to worship him in spirit and truth , you cart feel God
true... but remember Elijah and the prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18. Who had the most lively and most loud worship? wasn't it the prophets of Baal? and how did Elijah worshipped?
@@elizabethhartley8987 not everyone has felt or will feel the Holy Spirit.
@@JNLENTERPRISE thank God for he’s living word that leads us into all truth we walk by faith not by sight God bless I came out from pentecostal church last year true the word of God.
@@robertsmith3254 the was no church organisation then let’s go to 1 corinthians 14 church order. And we need to read in context God bless.
David danced before the Lord
If I go I will send another comforter !
Not suprisingly, in India there are numerous Pentecostal churches/ teaching without even knowing!
Thank you, friends, for this video. I appreciate the lecture and observations made. I am afraid, however, that Pentecostals are depicted with generalizations that do not apply to all. I have been involved in different Pentecostal circles and other streams of Christianity. And while I disagree with some of the health and wealth extremes, Pentecostalism could be understood as a people simply desiring to receive all that God has for them. Yes, Pentecostalism features a restorationist motive which is simply an expectation of experiencing what the church in the Book of Acts had.
Thank you very much.
Good lecture.
According to scripture we are baptised into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit it says in one place , in another place it says we are placed in the body of Christ by the "word of God" Which to me in ways is the same thing . To me this is the baptism .
What about David how He worship?
David wasn’t dancing in a synagogue or the temple.
@@CatfishHeaven777 he was dancing in front of the ark of the covenant. Same thing.
@@CatfishHeaven777 2
Samuel 6:14-15 (ESV) And David danced before the LORD with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod.
So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting and with the sound of the horn.
Point 3 is a watered down representation of pentecostal theology. We don't assume every time someone stands up to prophesy it's from the Spirit. There's definitely more discussion to be had about the nuance of what we would discern to be authentic... Above all other things, we would say point 1 (the scripture) is the determining factor of authenticity.
Great lecture, thank you.
22:00- To argue that ' signs and wonders ' are limited by time and space is void ab initio. The Great Commission clearly directs to make disciples. And Jesus said in John 12:14, those who believe in him ie his disciples can perform greater miracles. A plain reading will show that signs and wonders are not limited by time and space, but by lack of faith.
Jesus wanted us to love God with heart ,mind,
strength and soul. My personal reading is: heart represents emotional relationship, mind represents intellectual conviction about God, strength, represents physical activity for God, and soul represents mystical relationship with God .
Pentecostalism caters to all these dimensions of relationship with God. Hence its popularity in non- Christian countries.
Reformed churches, alas , take pride only in the intellectual relationship with God.
With love from India!
Thanks folks. Very clear and helpful. Cheers 🥂
Good stuff! Thanks! Walt
There is no perfect organization even in one proclaiming the gospel. As to the point the good Dr made regarding the Pentecostals not embracing having all things in common, neither have any of the other fellowships or denominations. He doesn’t either.
I was raised from 10-1/2 years old in a Pentecostal Church. I saw how the people banded together, helped one another, helped those who were outside of that congregation, like their neighbors. My Dad died when I was 11 years old and the Dads of my friends made certain that I was included, many times, when they took their sons fishing, etc. They Fathered me. They covered me.
To speak to the speaker’s ridiculously ignorant cliche’ that the majority of those who embrace Pentecostalism are the uneducated, that is not my experience at all. There were several very successful and educated men and women in our congregation.
The various sects of what is called Christianity all have diverse doctrines that they can prove, allegedly, by scripture. But the one thing many of them, including leaders, like Godfrey, bypass is that while The Church may have different departments, aka denominations or fellowships so to speak, there is ONE Chief Cornerstone and his name is Jesus. It is high time that we turn away from those who cause division among the brethren whether they speak eloquently or brashly against the other members of the family of God.
Jesus told his disciples one day, “I have sheep that are not of this fold.”
The people of Antioch did not call the disciples Baptist because they also baptized new converts as John did. They did not call them Pentecostal because they heard them speak in tongues or interpret those tongues. They called them, Christians, because they did the same works and miracles that Jesus the Christ had performed.
Godfrey goes out of his way, as do so many others, to explain away the need for yes, a second blessing of the infilling of the Holy Ghost, when the question was asked of a group of people by the disciples one day, “Have you received the Holy Ghost [SINCE] you believed? Those people were already believers and followers of Jesus and yet they were not filled with the Holy Spirit.
Why are we so afraid of accepting a gift being offered by the Lord? It is as if Jesus is standing right there in front of them with the gift in his hand and they look at him and say, “I don’t want it nor do I need your gift.” You can almost hear the slap upon the face of God.
I am so glad that I was raised in a Church environment that taught me to desire the things of God and to seek after his gifts. Gifts that have helped me throughout my life. They taught me to study for myself in order that I can be approved into God. They encouraged me to further my education otherwise as well.
I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost on December 10, 1965. Yes, I spoke in tongues just as they did on the Day of Pentecost and no, it was not gibberish. I was only 11 years old and my Dad had died 5 months earlier and 15 days after my birthday that year. On the way home from service that night, sitting in the back seat of the car, I said aloud, “I will never be without a father again.” You came too late to tell me it isn’t for me, as a believer, today. Too late. I know better. You should know better too.
I am not part of that same denomination anymore but I wouldn’t dare speak against God’s people. Especially in the condescending manner as those such as Godfrey continue to do. May God forgive ministers like him who declare words discounting Pentecostals and their experiences or beliefs. The same goes for those Pentecostals who speak against others who do not share their understanding/experiences of scripture. God will anoint whom God will anoint and he alone will send the reaper to divide the chaff from the wheat at the appointed time. It isn’t our job.
Run from those who lie to you and tell you that “the promise” is not unto you nor to your offspring. Because the word of God is true and forever settled in Heaven and it says that the promise is for you. Let God be true and every man, a liar.
While I disagree with a lot of the Pentecostal teachings, I would not dismiss them with the broad brush that Dr. Godfrey did. As for the "poor and uneducated", the Pentecostals are very effective at reaching the disenfranchised of society.
That said, the charismatics of today are a far cry from the ones I knew in the 70s or 80s that made the Bible a priority. The NAR teachers with their emphasis on prophetic words from God have created confusion in the charismatic camp.
Why do these classes only have senior citizens, don't the youth want to attend, could it be segregation? because ligonier is the best teaching ministries but according to what I've seen so far, they seem not to welcome the youth. Why so if I'm correct?
I don't think it's intentional. They just don't know how to reach younger people.
The Oneness church is Pentecostal also. We attended once and they told my wife if we join she was not allowed to cut her hair and I was not allowed to watch TV on Sunday. I said; "but wait, the big game is on tonight!". It doesn't matter they said. "Yea, but it's the Saints!".
😅😅
I really dont think this is a laughing matter. People are going to hell for eternity because they believe the blasphemous oneness pentecostal doctrines.
@@gigiis526 Okay
@@gigiis526 I agree. I was using a little humor to demonstrate the absurdity of the Oneness position, to make them think. There was more to the conversation that I did not get into.
Yeah, he mentioned that there was a branch of Pentecostals called "Oneness". My (Pentecostal/Assembly of God) church wasn't like that at all, in general I didn't have any major problems with it like Prosperity Gospel or "you must be able to speak in tongues or you're not saved". The biggest issue later on was they focused more on growth than good Gospel. but it still wasn't really Prosperity Gospel at that time.
David Wilkerson Pentecostal Preacher from New York . Founder of Teen Challenge.
Amen.
Thanks
Amen!!!
One question though, do reformed theologians not believe that gift of speaking of tongues can be present today at all?
I am not speaking about the pentecostal view of juat speaking gibberish but the true form of actually speaking a language that someone else hears in their native language?
Also do you all not believe in the casting out of demons?
An old woman once said to me. Pray in tongues, maybe the Lord will give me an explanation? The "red light" wake up me immediately, so what to do? I started speaking pig German and the old woman explained until I stop. After this incident, I will never believe these so called rebaptized. "Red light" means the Holy Spirit. I respect the Holy Spirit and why I don't mention his name so often is the Pentecostals
Reinhard Bonnkie charismatic evangelist to Africa saved 77 million, Christ for all Nations
There is a UA-cam channel, The Remnant Radio, that is run by Pentecostals that comes from a balanced view in that they examine the extremes and judge some of the prophetic words spoken throughout the past year through the lens of scripture and hold the person who spoke the word accountable.
>balanced
>Pentecostals
Pick one.
@Chad, ANY " prophecy" that is false does NOT come from God. Remnant Radio does everything possible to deny that.
There is no such thing as a modern day prophet.
Great video. Thank you
I thought there should be no any other foundation other than that which was laid. Should we not then build on the apostolic foundation. Our biblical interpretation should be based on the apostalic teaching, which confirms the gospels. Didn't Jess us promised the we shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes, we shall be witness to him, as out demons, lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.? Just my thoughts.
Thank you for your lecture? You have convinced me to join the Pentecostal church. Which brand do you advise me to join?
where the Bible is quoted in context & frequently; not subjective emotions, objective truth! God bless!
I didn't have any serious problems with my Pentecostal church. My family ultimately stopped leaving not due to doctrine but because of personal issues. We attended that church for over 20 years. The only issue I recall seeing is that later on, they focused more on trying to get more people to attend church while not focusing as much on actually teaching the scripture. It wasn't really "prosperity gospel" but it still was going in a bad direction I think.
Hahaha 🤣 good one
Is it not true that God wants His people to know Him and experience Him not only intellectually but also personally, even closer than a familial relationship? You cannot tell me that you do not get emotional around your closest loved ones. Oh, that would be missing out on life itself. Please don’t discount the relationship your brothers and sisters are having with their Maker, or you may be like the prodigals brother and miss out too. Enjoy Him for ever brother in Christ.
@@jrconway3 I see this all over so many drifting towards a more merchant style church. Great pressure upon leaders to fill the seats in order to pay the bills. I love the word, and expository preaching. Teaching through the books of the Bible. Discipleship geared more toward relationship one on one and the older engaging the younger to encourage and help them grow. The early church seamed to be more organic that way. Much of the institutionalized church has become cold indifferent and has seamed to lose her first love. I pray right now that you find a great Bible believing Spirit filled church.
Much of this is true. However, some of this is pandering to reformed ears. An oddball example of a pastor from LA to disclaim community, for instance, does not reflect the majority. Many AG church services and lectures are completely unrecognizable from this very one.
What do you mean “disclaim unity”?
Look up John MacArthurs 'Strange Fire 'conference and also Justen Peters 'clouds without water.' You will be blessed with alot of wisdom
@@gigiis526 Please, rethink posting this comment under every person who comments. John MacArthur and Justin Peters are dispensational Baptists, "Calvinistic-y" but not Reformed. Dr. W. Robert Godfrey is president emeritus of Westminster Seminary, CA., Ph.D in church history. He is also now the President of the Ligonier Board......hand-picked by R. C. Sproul. Have you listened to this lecture? Or are you just posting a comment to get people to listen to John MacArthur and Justin Peters?
The ignorance on the generalizing of all Pentecostals. 😓Let’s just say God decreed the Pentecostals to be the way they are, meant for damnation according to Calvin.
You keep about Paul what about ringo
am working at pingst rölesen now in sweden... is that pentecostalism?
Dr. Godfrey, that was a brilliant lecture or sermon whichever. When you were talking about the argument Christian sometimes make against atheist who say that it's not true it's make-believe and they use examples of things that happened in the service or in their life to prove that God is real oh, that I believe is a mistake, because Jesus himself said the kingdom of God does not come by observation. And somehow many Christians have moved into the idea that it does come by observation and you can prove it by healing and by speaking in tongues and by other things because of what happened in the early Church in the book of Acts. But Jesus said it is within you that is something that is not seen it does not come by observation we live by faith and the ones that can't understand it will not be saved, and that has nothing to do with us it is of the Lord and it's marvelous and a mystery. But that's just me oh, I could be wrong.
On the other hand the Apostles travelled talking about what they had seen.
@@dahelmang excellent point my friend, but also remember that this was a very very beginning of the church and they were learning how to walk by faith and not by sight, and the flesh is always there trying to get in it's $0.02 but the real truth is , we live by faith without faith it's impossible to please God we do not need to see anything we believe the written word and it is Anchored in our hearts and we walk by faith in it. But like I said that's just me.
@@donsimonds5186 well that's what other religions have to do because they are not true so blind faith is all they have. We worship the one true God so we don't need blind faith.
my response would have been different to( dahelmang)if you had of told me we were talking about Blind Faith. Because you see blind faith is believing something without any substance at all, the Bible says, not me, the Bible , says the just shall live by faith and that we are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves, it is a gift from God, it cometh by hearing the word of God, it has all the substance that God has ever spoken in it, it is not blind, it is not empty, the faith you're talking about is more empty and worthless because , if it is not supported in the scriptures, it is not true, but that's just me LOL aren't I silly?
@@donsimonds5186 I don't know, this whole time you have been describing blind faith.