Your previous video mentioning you were doing the cbir was the final encouragement for me to commence the course. I'm 2 months behind you, finished the maths primer and now on Rnav. I have also targeted about 6 months to finish the theory work 👍😁
Congratulations Jon on finally biting the bullet and going for the IR ! Best of luck. I always remember that famous quote from an instructor during a training flight- “ in a minute, I shall ask you, your name and you’ll reply ‘stand by’.” - it’s intense! The standard of accuracy required is far higher than you are currently used to. Glad you’re looking at a new auto pilot - it is essential.
Go get that dream Jon! Been watching you for a while and caught you at Private Flyers fest pre-any PPL hours. Currently 6 hours in and also experiencing 50% cancelled lessons due to the fantastic British weather 😎. Thanks for the content whilst I'm down on the ground. Keep flying!
Thank you Karl, much appreciated. And really pleased that you're on the way with the PPL. It will be frustrating at times, but it makes getting the licence feel all the better for it.
If I understood correctly, you write 7 different exams for your instrument rating. Here in Canada we write one which covers all the same subjects you mentioned. I wish we had your system. For older pilots like myself, it would make studying and learning a lot easier. I've now subscribed and look forward to future videos. Best of luck on this week's tests!!!
@@TheFlyingReporter To be honest it wasn’t that difficult when I did it in the nineties, however I am a chartered engineer so the science was fairly intuitive. The thing I failed first time was morse code which I believe you don’t need to do now.
Finished my ATPLs(EASA) this spring. The exams are a slog but the skills, knowledge and confidence you gain from going through IFR training is fantastic. So rewarding. All the best
I have a full EASA IR and recently visited Redhill with my PA28 140. Great ATC in Redhill! I filed IFR and allthough wx was very marginal with low stratus and just a few miles of vis, and EGKR is allegedly VFR only, Redhill tower coordinated an IFR climbout with Gatwick and got me quickly on my way back home. IFR flying even in less capable aircraft is very safe, efficient and fun. Get that rating!
Excellent video, I retired from Flying in 2017, you have reminded me of how busy the cockpit was , I really like when you say speeds increasing on the take off run, which is completely clear and logical , keep up the excellent work , Happy landings.
Nice to see some uk pilot content. I'm in the RAF air cadets and I will be flying a Tutor T1 soon. I have already flown once before, so this time I should get to do some rolls in the air!
Great to see this, I have just embarked on exactly the same journey (no pun intended). Current IR(R) and studying for the CB-IR with Bristol GS. Good luck with the training and exams.
@13:00 My parents flew from Brooklands to Croydon then landed at Lydd to refuel when they flew to France on their honeymoon... it was 1951 and they were using Sir Barnes Wallis' (bouncing bomb fame) private aircraft!
Very nice Video it reminds me times when I was flying there as well from Biggin Hill from Cabair but then we where contacting with Farnborough radar about 15years ago as well in PA 28 :)
Fantastic high quality production as always. In Australia we have a similar rating called the 'Private Instrument Flight Rating' or PIFR. Australian only rating like the IMC although it starts as a basic en-route rating so you can climb and descend IMC but not below MSA. You then 'add' approaches to the rating via additional flight tests, such as ILS, RNP(RNAV), STAR, SID, etc. We then have the Command Instrument Rating which is the full Instrument rating. Helpful topic as I am wanting to convert my Australian Command IR to my UK PPL. Thanks John.
That sounds like a really sensible way to go about it Dale and I didn't know you had anything vaguely similar. Here's the info about the CBIR which I think would be the only route for conversion for you, or you do the IRR test/exams. www.caa.co.uk/commercial-industry/pilot-licences/aeroplanes/competency-based-instrument-rating/
Australia has a version of the restricted instrument rating, called a private instrument rating (PIFR). Australia only, half the number of instrument hours needed to get. All approaches/enroute/departures types (eg ILS/NDB/VOR) are add-on endorsements that need to be signed off by examiner/instrument instructor which is different to a full instrument rating, and a private rating can only be used for non-commercial operations.
@@TheFlyingReporterthe EASA BIR also gives access to Class A; the UK could’ve had the BIR had we remained in the EU/EASA (which also means EASA BIR holders can’t use it in UK airspace). While it has higher minima than the full IR, it is easier to obtain than the full IR (even via the CBIR route), probably a similar amount of effort as the IR(R).
Well done Jon! Cant wait for the transatlantic trip. Am sure you must have seen the Buzzin around series - was absolutely fantastic and shows how achievable it can be - small ga aircraft - if well planned! Coincide with Oshkosh??
Great video Jon, and good luck with the exams. I start my IR(R) rating this year with Ravenair, can't wait! It's important to note, that to qualify for the CB-IR, 10hours of the IR(R) training must have been completed at an ATO (Authorised Training Organisation). Most flying clubs are DTO (Declared Training Organisation) which won't count.
You have to do a minimum of 10 hours training at an ATO - whether your training for your IRR was at and ATO or DTO matters not as I understand it. You just can’t credit the IRR training towards the hours you need. The hours you have flown since getting your IRR can be credited, but you will need to do 10 hours minimum at an ATO which most people will need to do anyway. Is that how you read it? www.caa.co.uk/commercial-industry/pilot-licences/aeroplanes/competency-based-instrument-rating/
Based on a recent dilemma I had about my own training I was doing a bit of research into different paths and as far as I understand John is correct, you do not have to do the IR(R) at an ATO to credit the hours. Like it says on the CAA website regarding the CB-IR you can credit these hours presuming you have done the IR(R) training with an IRI(A) or with an FI(A) qualified to teach the full Instrument Rating, it doesn’t matter if this was at an ATO or DTO. Also in Johns case since he has around 60 hours of PIC time flying IFR in IMC he can credit up to 30 hours anyway. For Multi Engine IR up to 35 hours can be credited towards the 45 hour course even if those experience or dual instruction hours were achieved in a single engine aeroplane but a requirement for a multi engine CB-IR is 15 hours of instrument training must be completed in a multi-engine aeroplane, and 10 hours instrument flying at an ATO which would form part of the CB-IR anyway. The only thing is that a DTO cannot issue a BIFM (Basic Instrument Flying Module) Course Completion Certificate for those wanting to do CPL. Whereas some ATO’s that offer the IR(R) offer the BIFM course completion certificate at the end of the IR(R) qualifying you to do a 15 hour CPL. However the way around this of course is to do the Full IR first before CPL and use that to credit the 10 hours instrument flying towards CPL.
I have a Multi Engine IFR rating in Australia, and am still alive 30 years, I would suggest if you want a easy IFR rating, USA is the place to do it, I believe they give them away in Weeties packets
Go for it, I did it few year ago, and yes the theory is a pain, but it is worth it. I leave in Belgium, and since I have my EASA CBIR I can fly virtually any days. And this also improve dramatically your VFR quality. I passed my CBIR when I was 58, never too old to learn skill And I'm concidering the atlantic crossing for this summer with my plane, we could join forces
I’m currently doing my cbir in twin engine it’s so hard!!!! Hope you find it easier than I am! 😊 but if you’ve kept up your ifr skills you’ll find it much easier
I had a full PPLIR Single Engine until I was medically retired. The problem is you are more qualified than the average single engine plane. In particular no deicing, especially on your Arrow. That said it doesn’t half make flying easier, until you get ejected from controlled airspace because they are too busy on a claggy day. That said it was the best thing I ever did in my twenty odd years flying. When I passed the test at Cranfield my examiner said congratulations, be careful with it!
Enjoyed the video, I too have an IR(R) and would like to start down the CBIR route this year. One thing that I do find annoying, is the difficulty booking IFR approaches for continuation training, we almost have to beg some airports for slots especially as we are not based at an IFR equipped airfield! IFR currency is an important safety issue, which is getting harder to maintain!
Yes, it's a very good point. I suppose when you have the full IR, the world's your oyster for that, but we do have a shortage of available approaches in the UK. One day....
Having a full UK IR both SEP and multi. The only real gain in operating flexibility is during the summer months, particularly SEP with no de or anti ice capability due to cloud base and temperatures at or below +5C. 2D -3D RNP approaches a real bonus with appropriate capable aeroplane. Autopilot flown approaches in real IFR - a real increase in the safety of the operation . Great content.
As a (f)ATPL I do not miss studying for those exams, good luck with them and your instrument training. I need to get around to getting my SEP Rating as I only have a multi rating
The only thing putting older pilots off is facing exams again after a 20 year break away from all that. Even if you are training commercially via the modular route a SE CBIR makes sense, then go go multi.
Pilots face a conundrum when flying with upgraded AFS (autoflight systems). Now, our manual skills (especially on instruments) rapidly degrades without constant practice. On top of that, remaining fluent with the efficient management of AFS (especially in challenging conditions) adds another layer of complexity and 'pilot competency' issues that must be addressed. Some recent accidents where pilots discovered (too late) how poor their 'hand flying' and instrument scanning skills had become illustrate this all too well. (fwiw When I flew professionally, even a couple weeks off for vacations made me aware of how fast the 'rust' sets in.) With these new challenges in mind - I wish you great success and lots of opportunities to use this expanding skill set! Thanks for sharing.
Good luck with the exams Jon, I’m sure you’ll ace them! Flying locally from Redhill to places like Lydd and Shoreham - if you want to get into the Class A, there’s no “pop-up” clearance available, you’ll need to file a flight plan which will give you a very impractical routing, and realistically means you’re stuck below the Class A even with full IR. This is the pain of UK local instrument flying, but the flip side is the ease with which we can fly IFR in Class G, as you say don’t even need to be on radio, let alone file a plan. But of course that full IR is going to be invaluable for your longer trips, especially the big one across to USA. Good luck!
It is possible to negotiate transit through A if I am not wrong (without flight plan). Even John was proposed transit through A in one of his videos, but he had to refuse. Other thing is you could file a flight plan in the air too. Routing would depend at how busy airspace is at that particular moment, so London TMA might be one of the busier ones.
The restricted IR rating, or the old IMC rating were "get you out of trouble ratings" that gave you a fighting-chance of you inadvertently got forced into flying IFR. In that situation, they undoubtedly saved lives. The problems start when it's used "with malice aforethought" so to speak, ie with deliberacy to fly IFR. The reasons for this are several. Light aircraft flying IFR are usually more or less flying in icing conditions, and that can make the flight very dicey even if adequate competency and currency is there. This is the second problem: Flying IFR really requires continuous actual experience, even with the full IR Rating. Simulator (PC) training/practice is of benefit from a procedural basis, but it is in no way adequate as an alternative to actual IFR flight "in the soup". And here's the fundamental problem, few light singles have avionics up to the required standards - your autopilot being a good example - and you're usually reliant on a single vacuum pump and single alternator, either of which failure can drop you right in it, should they fail in IFR flight. To my mind, to fly IFR sensibly, requires a twin rating where some redundancy exists, and better avionics are fitted, not to mention regular use of the rating. The difficulty with the IR rating in a light aircraft, especially a single, is that your safety depends on lots of actual recent experience in actual IMC, but this is also intrinsically dangerous, meaning that instead of being a "get you out of trouble" rating, it can become a "drop you in it rating" if you start to bank on it. As evidenced by the numerous crashes in the US of ostensibly correctly rated IR pilots in light singles.....
I think we agree on some things, but not on others, but that's ok. I've never found any reference to the IRR or IMC rating being a 'get out of trouble' rating. This myth is unhelpful I think, and I instead refer to the privileges outlined in law for it. It doesn't say, only use it if you get into trouble. Secondly, if you'll allow me to point out a contradiction in your comment. You say it's a get out of trouble rating, but you also say that to be proficient at IMC flying, you need to use it....or words to that effect. A get out of trouble rating, that is valid for 25 months, is no good, if you need it in month 24 and you haven't actually used it in 2 years - it's likely to kill you. Your opinions are widely shared though and I think it comes down to the individual and how they keep current. As for aircraft types/avionics etc, then of course you have a point and I won't argue with you. I think then it comes down to a person's attitude to risk and their ability to fly in such a way as to not put others in danger. Single pilot, single engine IFR is not outlawed, it's a licenced activity. Just my thoughts - like I said, I don't expect you to agree, and we come from different points of view on this. But that's life.
@@TheFlyingReporter Hi, it was the inherent contradiction of the IMC/IRR that I was trying to highlight, so I'm quite happy you raised it. I can't really speak as to the IRR as that came out long after I retired from flying, but the old IMC rating was definitely taught, and designed, to give pilots skills and knowledge "to get out of trouble" It was never intended, imho, for routine IFR flight and approaches. To a degree, it was the same with the night-rating. Although that could be used for night-flying singles, it's real purpose was to help pilots operate if they reached their destination having been delayed until after nightfall. Few PPL's used it to do much in the way of actual night-flying between different airfields. I fully agree with your response that it all depends on currency and experience. That said, there's quite a few accidents, many fatal, on the US side of the pond, where reasonably experienced SE aircraft are coming to grief in actual IMC through a combination of icing, disorientation, over-estimating their capacity, or simply exceeding minima. In my view one needs something of a "sense of humour" for SE flight in IMC, as there are several single-point failures possible, there's no de-icing kit, or oxygen, putting you right bang in the middle of icing conditions. In other words, it's a little bit "bold", and this is born out in the accident statistics, especially with pilots who have done their training and licence/rating acquisitions intensively, as they're getting the privileges to fly in increasingly difficult conditions, but lack the experience to know when they're in trouble. I'm not trying to put you off getting an IR, it'll improve your flying a lot, however, I think it's sensible to move onto aircraft more suited to IFR flight asap, and not to spend any longer than is necessary flying light singles. Of course, much of the time you can be flying IFR in VMC, and have great gains in simplicity from doing in controlled airspace.
Great stuff Jon. Following this adventure with interest as would love to "bump" my IRR to a full IR... it's the time required to study for the ground exams that's of most concern. Are you at all tempted to do the "rest" of the exams at same time so you'd be in a position to do a CPL?
I probably should have thought more about doing the full set, but I think that would probably have broken me! The CBIR theory is not too bad, a lot of it PPL stuff, and I'm managing to fit the study in around work/life. The ATPLs would probably be difficult to achieve.
I'm in the same spot you are. Got my IR(R) over the summer, but want to be able to fly IFR in Europe. I'm curious to know more about not just the cost difference of the CB-IR vs FAA IR but also if you have information about the relative difference in the time it takes to get each one. You mentioned that the CB-IR works out cheaper in the end, but does it take significantly more time?
It does depend. You could do the FAA IR intensively in a few weeks I think. Doing the TK study at home in the UK which is much, much less onerous than the UK IR TK and it's one exam. But you would have to do more flight hours in the USA...equivalent to the full IR training. You'd then have to build hours in the US to have enough to use them to convert to the CBIR here and you'd probably need a few hours with an instructor here first and there would be an oral test, where you would be expected to know some of the UK TK. I suspect you could do the the whole lot in 4-8 weeks if you were lucky, but you would have to have a fair wind and it would be a lot of unnecessary flying/cost.
The various subject-specific exams required for the instrument rating (and for other certificates/licenses too) in the UK I think is superior to that of the US where there’s a single exam and one, for example, can flunk all the weather-related questions and still pass!!
@@TheFlyingReporterso could you carry on doing the rest of the exams remaining in the syllabus and have that count as a full completion of ATPL exams ?
@@OzzySafa As far as I understand the CAA website, ATPL(A) theoretical exams will suffice for CBIR, but not the other way around. So, if you think you want to continue with ATPL I think you should probably take those seven* exams as ATPL level exams. *) It is unclear to me if the CAA says to take all thirteen exams or if the seven are good enough, as, presumably, the ATPL level is always a higher level than CBIR. And even if seven exams are enough, there is also the hurdle of a deadline from your first to your final theoretical ATPL exam (I think, 18 month). Anyway, the answer to your question is, that, for completion of the ATPL exams, Jon probably has to sit all thirteen exams, even if he takes seven at CBIR level now.
@@Rodhern so if you complete 7 exams and gain your IR but don’t complete all your ATPL exams in the 18 months, does that mean your IR then becomes invalid? .. I’m ever so curious
I don't know about John but personally I normally fly with both landing and taxi lights on for visibility. As mine are LED its not as if they will burnout.
We have the same dream it seems. If you've not already seen it, then I highly recommend the channel "Buzzin Around". He has a fantastic 15 part series about his flight in his Cessna Cardinal from his home in Lithuania over to Oshkosh in the US. 👍🏼
A note about the EASA CBIR. For much the same reason that the UK IR(R) exists, the EASA CBIR was introduced, and is a considerable reduction of the requirements (compared to the ATPL inspired route for IR qualifications). While one may ponder if it is the best idea to decide the scope of exams by pure spreadsheet math and policy, in the end the EASA CBIR is now a viable path to many EASA hobby pilots, where previously only the most ardent aviation hobbyist would dare venture. Comparing the theoretical knowledge tests for EASA CBIR against EASA ATPL, the CBIR is about half the number of exams with about half the syllabus of each exam (probably more than half, but let me do rough ballpark estimation. Also, parts of the syllabus is repetition of PPL knowledge and probably doesn't need to count in this context for neither CBIR or ATPL purposes). And so, the EASA CBIR theoretical exams might realistically end up maybe about one quarter (or maybe a third) of the effort required for the complete theoretical EASA ATPL exams. Jon mentions using a Bristol Groundschool course. On their website it seems they offer the same course modules for UK CBIR and EASA CBIR. So, possibly, the theoretical requirements are fairly similar(?).
The IRR is incredibly useful - I don't agree with the notion that its a get out of jail free card at all ... I suppose for your average GA pilot its debatable whether moving onto the CBIR is worth the aggro with icing being a factor for 4/5 months of the year and then CBs at other times... that's certainly a debate I'm having with myself anyway. I did my ATPLs at BGS a few years ago and converted them to a CPL with the intention of getting SEIR before they expired, but circumstances conspired against me so I need to decide whether to do the IR TK again and just bite the bullet. At least with a CPL I am except from a couple of them.... I did actually 'enjoy' the TK looking back... good luck and look forward to following your journey.
I see the big hole in the panel, is that ADF going to recover from its problems ? If you are going to do the North Atlantic the IR is a must, I went across in August and only one of the five approaches was VFR, all the rest were within 100ft of minimums. Avionic retrofit is a problem area as very few of the installers have a lot of IR experience and very few pilots know a lot about avionics system integration the result is a lot of aircraft owners don’t the optimum system for their requirements, I could point you at a company within 35 min flying of your base who you probably have never considered who have two B2 avionics license holders who have ATPL’s and thousands of hours of practical IFR flying experience.
In two minds about the ADF. I think it was going to be a simple fix, but haven't heard from the engineer yet. If I can't get it back, I'll have to get some glass indicators with the avionics upgrade which will break the bank - shall see. The avionics company I've been talking to is run by a PPL IR board member and active IFR pilot, however if you have contacts you think might have availability and would be interested in looking at the project, let me know.
@@TheFlyingReporter I did say in a previous reply that I would be surprised if the ADF was repairable as King had stopped supporting it twenty years or so back. If you want ADF and you can’t get the KR85 fixed then the KR87 is the only real option and with glass just over the horizon you need the flavour with ADF superflag for full functionality. I will email you an avionic company recommendation.
There is nothing wrong with hand flying an aircraft it greatly improves your competency. And as I've commented on another of your videos, I'm somewhat saddened by the way aviation is works in the UK.
There should be a PPL-GPS where IMC flying is inherently integral and easy with the help of modern avionics, in particular a clear synthetic vision and ADS-B display that makes flying completely blind very easy. GA is way too rooted in amelia earhart era technology or lack of same. A smart 10 year old can learn to fly on synthetic vision in 5 minutes. If you think about it you might realize that MS flight sim is entirely synthetic vision and not exactly challenging to fly. It can be that simple. A good ppl including IFR doesn't need to even be the 40 hours required now. GA is in a very sorry state. Not quite israel bad but at least Cuba bad.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Great to see some UK Private pilot content. Very helpful coming up to my skills test. Best of luck with IR!
Thanks for watching Christan. I release regularly on here so do subscribe.
Never a dull moment on your channel Jon! Great to hear the new plans and the tight timescale. Best of luck with your continuing studies 😊
Your previous video mentioning you were doing the cbir was the final encouragement for me to commence the course. I'm 2 months behind you, finished the maths primer and now on Rnav. I have also targeted about 6 months to finish the theory work 👍😁
Brilliant. Love this. Let me know how you get on.
Congratulations Jon on finally biting the bullet and going for the IR !
Best of luck.
I always remember that famous quote from an instructor during a training flight- “ in a minute, I shall ask you, your name and you’ll reply ‘stand by’.” - it’s intense! The standard of accuracy required is far higher than you are currently used to.
Glad you’re looking at a new auto pilot - it is essential.
Thanks. I won't have it for the training sadly - will take a year to save up for that.
Go get that dream Jon! Been watching you for a while and caught you at Private Flyers fest pre-any PPL hours. Currently 6 hours in and also experiencing 50% cancelled lessons due to the fantastic British weather 😎. Thanks for the content whilst I'm down on the ground. Keep flying!
Thank you Karl, much appreciated. And really pleased that you're on the way with the PPL. It will be frustrating at times, but it makes getting the licence feel all the better for it.
If I understood correctly, you write 7 different exams for your instrument rating. Here in Canada we write one which covers all the same subjects you mentioned. I wish we had your system. For older pilots like myself, it would make studying and learning a lot easier. I've now subscribed and look forward to future videos. Best of luck on this week's tests!!!
Yea. I hadn’t thought about it that way. But I think the quantity of material we have to learn here is much greater.
@@TheFlyingReporter To be honest it wasn’t that difficult when I did it in the nineties, however I am a chartered engineer so the science was fairly intuitive. The thing I failed first time was morse code which I believe you don’t need to do now.
Finished my ATPLs(EASA) this spring. The exams are a slog but the skills, knowledge and confidence you gain from going through IFR training is fantastic. So rewarding. All the best
Thanks Timothy.
I have a full EASA IR and recently visited Redhill with my PA28 140. Great ATC in Redhill! I filed IFR and allthough wx was very marginal with low stratus and just a few miles of vis, and EGKR is allegedly VFR only, Redhill tower coordinated an IFR climbout with Gatwick and got me quickly on my way back home. IFR flying even in less capable aircraft is very safe, efficient and fun. Get that rating!
Excellent video, I retired from Flying in 2017, you have reminded me of how busy the cockpit was , I really like when you say speeds increasing on the take off run, which is completely clear and logical , keep up the excellent work , Happy landings.
Thanks Rob.
Best of luck with the training Jon - I’m sure it’ll be a breeze!
Look forward to updates on your progress!
Thanks!
Thank you Dale.
just started working on my IR here in the US, lots of info to cram into my brain but it has been fun so far
Nice to see some uk pilot content. I'm in the RAF air cadets and I will be flying a Tutor T1 soon. I have already flown once before, so this time I should get to do some rolls in the air!
Best of luck with the exam this week Jon. Looking forward to following your journey.
Great to see this, I have just embarked on exactly the same journey (no pun intended). Current IR(R) and studying for the CB-IR with Bristol GS. Good luck with the training and exams.
@13:00 My parents flew from Brooklands to Croydon then landed at Lydd to refuel when they flew to France on their honeymoon... it was 1951 and they were using Sir Barnes Wallis' (bouncing bomb fame) private aircraft!
Did my atpls home study at Bristol. Great school. Took 14 months! Working on renewing the now IRR after a 13-year hiatus.
Excellent Mark - good luck.
Very nice Video it reminds me times when I was flying there as well from Biggin Hill from Cabair but then we where contacting with Farnborough radar about 15years ago as well in PA 28 :)
Fantastic high quality production as always. In Australia we have a similar rating called the 'Private Instrument Flight Rating' or PIFR. Australian only rating like the IMC although it starts as a basic en-route rating so you can climb and descend IMC but not below MSA. You then 'add' approaches to the rating via additional flight tests, such as ILS, RNP(RNAV), STAR, SID, etc. We then have the Command Instrument Rating which is the full Instrument rating. Helpful topic as I am wanting to convert my Australian Command IR to my UK PPL. Thanks John.
That sounds like a really sensible way to go about it Dale and I didn't know you had anything vaguely similar. Here's the info about the CBIR which I think would be the only route for conversion for you, or you do the IRR test/exams. www.caa.co.uk/commercial-industry/pilot-licences/aeroplanes/competency-based-instrument-rating/
Great video as usual. Interesting topic for me as a certified flight instructor and pilot in the US.
Thanks for watching - lots of differences between the way we do things here.
Australia has a version of the restricted instrument rating, called a private instrument rating (PIFR). Australia only, half the number of instrument hours needed to get. All approaches/enroute/departures types (eg ILS/NDB/VOR) are add-on endorsements that need to be signed off by examiner/instrument instructor which is different to a full instrument rating, and a private rating can only be used for non-commercial operations.
That sounds perfect. I didn't know that, thanks.
You will find that the practical limitation on using an IR is airframe icing.
It will be a limitation, yes, but not a reason not to do it I don't think.
Good luck on your exams!
Thank you.
we sort of have the same rating in France for private pilots, it's called BIR (Basic instrument rating)
Yes, that is similiar to the IRR (restricted instrument rating) isn't it.
@@TheFlyingReporterthe EASA BIR also gives access to Class A; the UK could’ve had the BIR had we remained in the EU/EASA (which also means EASA BIR holders can’t use it in UK airspace). While it has higher minima than the full IR, it is easier to obtain than the full IR (even via the CBIR route), probably a similar amount of effort as the IR(R).
EASA BIR has mandatory higher minimums though.
Ha, welcome to Shoreham, my home airfield Jon. Good luck with the IR, I found it great fun but the IRT was fairly stressful 😂
Best of luck with your exams. Another great video from you, thanks.
Thank you.
Another excellent video! Good luck with the exams
Thank you.
Well done Jon! Cant wait for the transatlantic trip. Am sure you must have seen the Buzzin around series - was absolutely fantastic and shows how achievable it can be - small ga aircraft - if well planned!
Coincide with Oshkosh??
Great video Jon, and good luck with the exams. I start my IR(R) rating this year with Ravenair, can't wait! It's important to note, that to qualify for the CB-IR, 10hours of the IR(R) training must have been completed at an ATO (Authorised Training Organisation). Most flying clubs are DTO (Declared Training Organisation) which won't count.
You have to do a minimum of 10 hours training at an ATO - whether your training for your IRR was at and ATO or DTO matters not as I understand it. You just can’t credit the IRR training towards the hours you need. The hours you have flown since getting your IRR can be credited, but you will need to do 10 hours minimum at an ATO which most people will need to do anyway. Is that how you read it? www.caa.co.uk/commercial-industry/pilot-licences/aeroplanes/competency-based-instrument-rating/
Based on a recent dilemma I had about my own training I was doing a bit of research into different paths and as far as I understand John is correct, you do not have to do the IR(R) at an ATO to credit the hours. Like it says on the CAA website regarding the CB-IR you can credit these hours presuming you have done the IR(R) training with an IRI(A) or with an FI(A) qualified to teach the full Instrument Rating, it doesn’t matter if this was at an ATO or DTO.
Also in Johns case since he has around 60 hours of PIC time flying IFR in IMC he can credit up to 30 hours anyway. For Multi Engine IR up to 35 hours can be credited towards the 45 hour course even if those experience or dual instruction hours were achieved in a single engine aeroplane but a requirement for a multi engine CB-IR is 15 hours of instrument training must be completed in a multi-engine aeroplane, and 10 hours instrument flying at an ATO which would form part of the CB-IR anyway.
The only thing is that a DTO cannot issue a BIFM (Basic Instrument Flying Module) Course Completion Certificate for those wanting to do CPL. Whereas some ATO’s that offer the IR(R) offer the BIFM course completion certificate at the end of the IR(R) qualifying you to do a 15 hour CPL. However the way around this of course is to do the Full IR first before CPL and use that to credit the 10 hours instrument flying towards CPL.
I have a Multi Engine IFR rating in Australia, and am still alive 30 years, I would suggest if you want a easy IFR rating, USA is the place to do it, I believe they give them away in Weeties packets
Tuscanrider8985 totally agree with you and that goes for ifr night flying in SEP. ( 52 years a ppl imc /ir restricted since 1974. Still flying)
Good luck with your IR adventure. There’s nothing quite like the satisfaction of landing from minimas.
Thanks Gordon.
Go for it, I did it few year ago, and yes the theory is a pain, but it is worth it. I leave in Belgium, and since I have my EASA CBIR I can fly virtually any days. And this also improve dramatically your VFR quality. I passed my CBIR when I was 58, never too old to learn skill
And I'm concidering the atlantic crossing for this summer with my plane, we could join forces
Thanks. It won't be this summer for me, probably 2026.
Good luck with the exams Jon!
Thank you.
Good luck Jon! 🤞🏻
Thank you Kevin.
I’m currently doing my cbir in twin engine it’s so hard!!!! Hope you find it easier than I am! 😊 but if you’ve kept up your ifr skills you’ll find it much easier
Good luck with your exams. Inspirational video, I may get there one day.
Thanks Richard.
Excellent video thanks for sharing look forward to hearing more on your studies
Thanks Kevin - There'll be frequent updates over the next 4-5 months or so I'm sure.
I had a full PPLIR Single Engine until I was medically retired. The problem is you are more qualified than the average single engine plane. In particular no deicing, especially on your Arrow. That said it doesn’t half make flying easier, until you get ejected from controlled airspace because they are too busy on a claggy day. That said it was the best thing I ever did in my twenty odd years flying.
When I passed the test at Cranfield my examiner said congratulations, be careful with it!
Wise words from your examiner. Thanks Owen.
Yup, I always keep below the freezing level unless clear skies
Enjoyed the video, I too have an IR(R) and would like to start down the CBIR route this year.
One thing that I do find annoying, is the difficulty booking IFR approaches for continuation training, we almost have to beg some airports for slots especially as we are not based at an IFR equipped airfield!
IFR currency is an important safety issue, which is getting harder to maintain!
Yes, it's a very good point. I suppose when you have the full IR, the world's your oyster for that, but we do have a shortage of available approaches in the UK. One day....
Great to see this, I'm hoping to do my IRr this year money permitting. Should take the fear of clouds chasing me around!
Yes, it does take some of that fear away for sure. Really useful rating, and not a lot of cost to it comparitively.
Having a full UK IR both SEP and multi. The only real gain in operating flexibility is during the summer months, particularly SEP with no de or anti ice capability due to cloud base and temperatures at or below +5C. 2D -3D RNP approaches a real bonus with appropriate capable aeroplane. Autopilot flown approaches in real IFR - a real increase in the safety of the operation . Great content.
I think it's useful a little bit more than summer, it will be just a case of picking my days, as I do now anyway.
As a (f)ATPL I do not miss studying for those exams, good luck with them and your instrument training. I need to get around to getting my SEP Rating as I only have a multi rating
Thanks Oscar.
Been trying to get a duel check in this month but the sodding weather keeps getting in the way! Such is life
It's been dreadful - I can't see a good period of weather until around 2/4 Feb.
Its always sunny above the soup! Im in Westerham and often watch for the light aircraft in the tight corridors between LHR / LGW. Cheers!
And we always wave back at you Ben.
Another interesting video, thank you.
Nice jacket, by the way. Christmas present?
Yes, it was - mum got one for me and my brother haha
The only thing putting older pilots off is facing exams again after a 20 year break away from all that. Even if you are training commercially via the modular route a SE CBIR makes sense, then go go multi.
It's quite refreshing to kick the grey matter back into life actually.
Pilots face a conundrum when flying with upgraded AFS (autoflight systems). Now, our manual skills (especially on instruments) rapidly degrades without constant practice. On top of that, remaining fluent with the efficient management of AFS (especially in challenging conditions) adds another layer of complexity and 'pilot competency' issues that must be addressed. Some recent accidents where pilots discovered (too late) how poor their 'hand flying' and instrument scanning skills had become illustrate this all too well. (fwiw When I flew professionally, even a couple weeks off for vacations made me aware of how fast the 'rust' sets in.) With these new challenges in mind - I wish you great success and lots of opportunities to use this expanding skill set! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much.
Very informative thank you. What a view skimming the clouds!
I know eh. Perfect.
Good luck with the exams Jon, I’m sure you’ll ace them!
Flying locally from Redhill to places like Lydd and Shoreham - if you want to get into the Class A, there’s no “pop-up” clearance available, you’ll need to file a flight plan which will give you a very impractical routing, and realistically means you’re stuck below the Class A even with full IR. This is the pain of UK local instrument flying, but the flip side is the ease with which we can fly IFR in Class G, as you say don’t even need to be on radio, let alone file a plan. But of course that full IR is going to be invaluable for your longer trips, especially the big one across to USA. Good luck!
Henry, it's going to come into its own on the longer distance travelling that I like to do.
It is possible to negotiate transit through A if I am not wrong (without flight plan). Even John was proposed transit through A in one of his videos, but he had to refuse. Other thing is you could file a flight plan in the air too. Routing would depend at how busy airspace is at that particular moment, so London TMA might be one of the busier ones.
In theory yes, but in practice no, London will not give pop-up clearance for TMA
Bumped into Alan Sugar at Stapleford. Didn't know that was his Cirrus
The restricted IR rating, or the old IMC rating were "get you out of trouble ratings" that gave you a fighting-chance of you inadvertently got forced into flying IFR. In that situation, they undoubtedly saved lives. The problems start when it's used "with malice aforethought" so to speak, ie with deliberacy to fly IFR. The reasons for this are several. Light aircraft flying IFR are usually more or less flying in icing conditions, and that can make the flight very dicey even if adequate competency and currency is there. This is the second problem: Flying IFR really requires continuous actual experience, even with the full IR Rating. Simulator (PC) training/practice is of benefit from a procedural basis, but it is in no way adequate as an alternative to actual IFR flight "in the soup". And here's the fundamental problem, few light singles have avionics up to the required standards - your autopilot being a good example - and you're usually reliant on a single vacuum pump and single alternator, either of which failure can drop you right in it, should they fail in IFR flight. To my mind, to fly IFR sensibly, requires a twin rating where some redundancy exists, and better avionics are fitted, not to mention regular use of the rating. The difficulty with the IR rating in a light aircraft, especially a single, is that your safety depends on lots of actual recent experience in actual IMC, but this is also intrinsically dangerous, meaning that instead of being a "get you out of trouble" rating, it can become a "drop you in it rating" if you start to bank on it. As evidenced by the numerous crashes in the US of ostensibly correctly rated IR pilots in light singles.....
I think we agree on some things, but not on others, but that's ok. I've never found any reference to the IRR or IMC rating being a 'get out of trouble' rating. This myth is unhelpful I think, and I instead refer to the privileges outlined in law for it. It doesn't say, only use it if you get into trouble. Secondly, if you'll allow me to point out a contradiction in your comment. You say it's a get out of trouble rating, but you also say that to be proficient at IMC flying, you need to use it....or words to that effect. A get out of trouble rating, that is valid for 25 months, is no good, if you need it in month 24 and you haven't actually used it in 2 years - it's likely to kill you. Your opinions are widely shared though and I think it comes down to the individual and how they keep current. As for aircraft types/avionics etc, then of course you have a point and I won't argue with you. I think then it comes down to a person's attitude to risk and their ability to fly in such a way as to not put others in danger. Single pilot, single engine IFR is not outlawed, it's a licenced activity. Just my thoughts - like I said, I don't expect you to agree, and we come from different points of view on this. But that's life.
@@TheFlyingReporter Hi, it was the inherent contradiction of the IMC/IRR that I was trying to highlight, so I'm quite happy you raised it. I can't really speak as to the IRR as that came out long after I retired from flying, but the old IMC rating was definitely taught, and designed, to give pilots skills and knowledge "to get out of trouble" It was never intended, imho, for routine IFR flight and approaches. To a degree, it was the same with the night-rating. Although that could be used for night-flying singles, it's real purpose was to help pilots operate if they reached their destination having been delayed until after nightfall. Few PPL's used it to do much in the way of actual night-flying between different airfields. I fully agree with your response that it all depends on currency and experience. That said, there's quite a few accidents, many fatal, on the US side of the pond, where reasonably experienced SE aircraft are coming to grief in actual IMC through a combination of icing, disorientation, over-estimating their capacity, or simply exceeding minima. In my view one needs something of a "sense of humour" for SE flight in IMC, as there are several single-point failures possible, there's no de-icing kit, or oxygen, putting you right bang in the middle of icing conditions. In other words, it's a little bit "bold", and this is born out in the accident statistics, especially with pilots who have done their training and licence/rating acquisitions intensively, as they're getting the privileges to fly in increasingly difficult conditions, but lack the experience to know when they're in trouble. I'm not trying to put you off getting an IR, it'll improve your flying a lot, however, I think it's sensible to move onto aircraft more suited to IFR flight asap, and not to spend any longer than is necessary flying light singles. Of course, much of the time you can be flying IFR in VMC, and have great gains in simplicity from doing in controlled airspace.
I think the IR-R is a brilliant idea. Might ward off the deadly VMC-IMC incurred by many a VFR pilot. Good luck with it Jon.
Thank you Douglass.
Great stuff Jon. Following this adventure with interest as would love to "bump" my IRR to a full IR... it's the time required to study for the ground exams that's of most concern. Are you at all tempted to do the "rest" of the exams at same time so you'd be in a position to do a CPL?
I probably should have thought more about doing the full set, but I think that would probably have broken me! The CBIR theory is not too bad, a lot of it PPL stuff, and I'm managing to fit the study in around work/life. The ATPLs would probably be difficult to achieve.
Can non-UK European-based pilots get the restricted IFR rating just for when they are flying in UK airspace?
Wouldn't it make sense to have an FAA licence & IR and fly an N-Reg a/c in Europe (owned by a US registered trust)?
I'm in the same spot you are. Got my IR(R) over the summer, but want to be able to fly IFR in Europe. I'm curious to know more about not just the cost difference of the CB-IR vs FAA IR but also if you have information about the relative difference in the time it takes to get each one. You mentioned that the CB-IR works out cheaper in the end, but does it take significantly more time?
It does depend. You could do the FAA IR intensively in a few weeks I think. Doing the TK study at home in the UK which is much, much less onerous than the UK IR TK and it's one exam. But you would have to do more flight hours in the USA...equivalent to the full IR training. You'd then have to build hours in the US to have enough to use them to convert to the CBIR here and you'd probably need a few hours with an instructor here first and there would be an oral test, where you would be expected to know some of the UK TK. I suspect you could do the the whole lot in 4-8 weeks if you were lucky, but you would have to have a fair wind and it would be a lot of unnecessary flying/cost.
The various subject-specific exams required for the instrument rating (and for other certificates/licenses too) in the UK I think is superior to that of the US where there’s a single exam and one, for example, can flunk all the weather-related questions and still pass!!
It is a much more detailed course of study that is for sure. Akin to the ATPL, albeit a shorter syllabus.
do the IR exams use the ATPL syllabus?
Yes they do, just a slightly slimmed down syllabus.
@@TheFlyingReporteras they say just as the commercial is a jumped-up PPL, the ATP is a jumped-up IFR 😂😂😂
@@TheFlyingReporterso could you carry on doing the rest of the exams remaining in the syllabus and have that count as a full completion of ATPL exams ?
@@OzzySafa As far as I understand the CAA website, ATPL(A) theoretical exams will suffice for CBIR, but not the other way around. So, if you think you want to continue with ATPL I think you should probably take those seven* exams as ATPL level exams.
*) It is unclear to me if the CAA says to take all thirteen exams or if the seven are good enough, as, presumably, the ATPL level is always a higher level than CBIR. And even if seven exams are enough, there is also the hurdle of a deadline from your first to your final theoretical ATPL exam (I think, 18 month).
Anyway, the answer to your question is, that, for completion of the ATPL exams, Jon probably has to sit all thirteen exams, even if he takes seven at CBIR level now.
@@Rodhern so if you complete 7 exams and gain your IR but don’t complete all your ATPL exams in the 18 months, does that mean your IR then becomes invalid? .. I’m ever so curious
Was landing light on for better visibility or there was no after TO check?
I don't know about John but personally I normally fly with both landing and taxi lights on for visibility. As mine are LED its not as if they will burnout.
Thanks again. Trust all goes to plan
Hope so,thanks.
We have the same dream it seems. If you've not already seen it, then I highly recommend the channel "Buzzin Around". He has a fantastic 15 part series about his flight in his Cessna Cardinal from his home in Lithuania over to Oshkosh in the US. 👍🏼
Thanks Lee - will take a look.
A note about the EASA CBIR. For much the same reason that the UK IR(R) exists, the EASA CBIR was introduced, and is a considerable reduction of the requirements (compared to the ATPL inspired route for IR qualifications). While one may ponder if it is the best idea to decide the scope of exams by pure spreadsheet math and policy, in the end the EASA CBIR is now a viable path to many EASA hobby pilots, where previously only the most ardent aviation hobbyist would dare venture. Comparing the theoretical knowledge tests for EASA CBIR against EASA ATPL, the CBIR is about half the number of exams with about half the syllabus of each exam (probably more than half, but let me do rough ballpark estimation. Also, parts of the syllabus is repetition of PPL knowledge and probably doesn't need to count in this context for neither CBIR or ATPL purposes). And so, the EASA CBIR theoretical exams might realistically end up maybe about one quarter (or maybe a third) of the effort required for the complete theoretical EASA ATPL exams.
Jon mentions using a Bristol Groundschool course. On their website it seems they offer the same course modules for UK CBIR and EASA CBIR. So, possibly, the theoretical requirements are fairly similar(?).
Haven't dug into it, but I suspect it is much the same.
The IRR is incredibly useful - I don't agree with the notion that its a get out of jail free card at all ... I suppose for your average GA pilot its debatable whether moving onto the CBIR is worth the aggro with icing being a factor for 4/5 months of the year and then CBs at other times... that's certainly a debate I'm having with myself anyway. I did my ATPLs at BGS a few years ago and converted them to a CPL with the intention of getting SEIR before they expired, but circumstances conspired against me so I need to decide whether to do the IR TK again and just bite the bullet. At least with a CPL I am except from a couple of them.... I did actually 'enjoy' the TK looking back... good luck and look forward to following your journey.
Thank you. Icing is manageable. I've flown on many IMC days in all seasons, but only when I can assure myself I won't fly into known icing.
I see the big hole in the panel, is that ADF going to recover from its problems ? If you are going to do the North Atlantic the IR is a must, I went across in August and only one of the five approaches was VFR, all the rest were within 100ft of minimums. Avionic retrofit is a problem area as very few of the installers have a lot of IR experience and very few pilots know a lot about avionics system integration the result is a lot of aircraft owners don’t the optimum system for their requirements, I could point you at a company within 35 min flying of your base who you probably have never considered who have two B2 avionics license holders who have ATPL’s and thousands of hours of practical IFR flying experience.
In two minds about the ADF. I think it was going to be a simple fix, but haven't heard from the engineer yet. If I can't get it back, I'll have to get some glass indicators with the avionics upgrade which will break the bank - shall see. The avionics company I've been talking to is run by a PPL IR board member and active IFR pilot, however if you have contacts you think might have availability and would be interested in looking at the project, let me know.
@@TheFlyingReporter I did say in a previous reply that I would be surprised if the ADF was repairable as King had stopped supporting it twenty years or so back. If you want ADF and you can’t get the KR85 fixed then the KR87 is the only real option and with glass just over the horizon you need the flavour with ADF superflag for full functionality. I will email you an avionic company recommendation.
There is nothing wrong with hand flying an aircraft it greatly improves your competency.
And as I've commented on another of your videos, I'm somewhat saddened by the way aviation is works in the UK.
For lesiure flying, they do make it quite hard!
There should be a PPL-GPS where IMC flying is inherently integral and easy with the help of modern avionics, in particular a clear synthetic vision and ADS-B display that makes flying completely blind very easy. GA is way too rooted in amelia earhart era technology or lack of same. A smart 10 year old can learn to fly on synthetic vision in 5 minutes. If you think about it you might realize that MS flight sim is entirely synthetic vision and not exactly challenging to fly. It can be that simple. A good ppl including IFR doesn't need to even be the 40 hours required now. GA is in a very sorry state. Not quite israel bad but at least Cuba bad.
I have my full IR.
I would still never want to fly single engine, single pilot on a full IFR flight
Why not? It’s perfectly feasible. I often do it.
Ty a rider
Study hard 👍
UR IR in a SEP with no ice protection. Not worth it imho.
Well if he’s below the freezing level that’s OK.