@@kamdenpine1024 Pick Loooooop! Yaddidimean? You both have more courage than me. I can't say too much as I need to stay in for now. Don't ask. It's complicated. But you were both great friends to me out at WKL. It's obvious that neither of you are evil, selfish, or bitter. Love you guys.
@@kamdenpine1024 I can't seem to find an email for you as I've switched phones, computers, etc in the past decade. Mine is in my YT profile if you feel like sending me something. But no pressure. I don't want to make anything difficult for you either.
I have a copy of the KS10 I downloaded and printed off. A JW elder used to shop with his wife in the store I worked in. One day I asked them about the elders book and he told me directly that he had no idea what I was talking about. So the following week I brought mine in and asked if he wanted mine, I said I'd just print another one off. His face was priceless 😂
Thank you both for giving such a compassionate, nuanced interview. As an ex-Witness who still dearly loves her Witness family and has so many good memories of childhood friends and mentors - but just couldn't believe the theology and deplored many of the cultish practices - this was very healing for me. I could so relate to many of the things you said. I wish you both the very best.
What a great video, coming from a place of love and even offering love to the ones who are shunning you because you realize their minds are not their own. I think Kevin’s quote was amazing and beautiful when he said “It feels good to call all of humanity my brothers and sisters not just a select few.” This is one of my biggest problems with the Watchtower society, well that and the misogyny that so heavily influences the culture. Thank you so much you guys, I really hope some witnesses can see this and understand where those that have left are coming from!
Excellent way to start the week with an interview of two quite long time Bethelites. Eight to nine years a piece is a LONG time. Loving the insights from these awoken young men and it's great to hear they are not embittered when they easily could be after a TTATT wake-up call and subsequent shunning for walking away.
I love the definition of spiritual being a fully conscious human being. I aspire to this kind of spirituality. So nice to hear those words. Great interview! Thanks to all!
This interview I needed to listen to more than once. Many levels - the humanity is palpable from all. The rush to lock down the IT pulls at many emotions. The disclosure of the levels of secrecy is disturbing considering it is supposed to be the channel of truth to all humanity. Lloyd your point on the amount of monies needed is in direct amount of monies contributed is one of the boxes I ticked as a study not a born in. A very well rounded interview and the point made about ‘pillowgate’ really spoke to the love and understanding of you men to those we have left behind - for now! By your love you will know them speaks volumes here even though I now identify as agnostic although humanistic - love is love (as adults it is not unconditional as that belongs to our children ) but love that embraces differences as it does not diminish self. Thankyou once again Lloyd your time and effort appreciated.
In all honesty, Lloyd Evan's has consistently been the number one person responsible for me saying, "Wow" on multiple occasions in my entire life. Thank you very much for helping me wake up.
I loved the whole discussion! The comment that kevin made about pillowgate really was needed awareness! Although we can laugh and kid around with this, a more serious watchtower control in personal lives really does affect us! When you think about how restrictive you are made to be and your thoughts that a pillow will solve this issue of masterbation then the watchtower still says thats a sin! Wow ! I remember as a kid pre teens kissing a girl and was in major trouble, i did resort to pretending with a pillow after that until my later teens! What a cruel cult this was!
This is one of the best videos I’ve watched in awhile on this channel. I love their objectivity. Both have a very balance view of their experiences. This attitude is helpful because it’s so easy to dwell on the negativity from being a JW. Both gentlemen seem emotionally healthy. Great job! 👏
That was so interesting! The argument with that elder's wife over shipping a sealed box of elder manuals completely underscores the Pharisaical nature of the organization. Once again we see wonderful human beings who leave the organization because they saw firsthand, in the Bethel headquarters, that it was just another man made organization.
Susan Gaskin I found that so many ‘stellar’ JWs would go to Bethel, and then end up leaving the JWs. Like Andrea! That always shocked me because I figured it would be the other way ‘round. So something bad is happening at The Big House.
So many are leaving this cult. I left after I met a Christian woman when coming to her house in my Door to Door work: she shared 1st John 2:26, 27 with me and then said she would Pray for me. I read it and it changed my life forever....her Prayer worked. I remember being in High School when my older Brother left Bethel and was very disappointed with what He saw and experienced there. I felt so bad for him because my Parents were so ashamed of him for quitting....all they could think of was what the others at the Kingdom Hall would think of our family. You said it right about image obsession....it was always that way. I have gained so many Brothers and Sisters since I became a Born Again Believer in Jesus Christ. There is a BIG difference in Knowing Jesus Christ Vs. just knowing about Him. Ask Him to show you HIS TRUTH remember Jeremiah 29:13....he will not deny you. God Bless you Brothers!
I feel that these are the most effective videos that you do, Lloyd. Not that any of your videos or podcasts are bad in any way, or ineffective. Just that I think real life experiences of exJW members are the best thing that active members could find! I know that the fake Watchtower “experiences” were what brainwashed me and kept me locked in that cult. If I could’ve heard these real experiences, then I would’ve easily extracted myself from that cult.
What a great couple of guys.. touching closing comments. I too love being able to see all breathing humans as brothers or connected divinely. Whereas when I was a JW, I saw the worldly person was lessor. So I really appreciate those closing comments he gave to his old friends at bethel. Also remember though that the watchtower love to take credit for the good qualities that people possess in the .org. That is something that was said to me from people , just before my waking up. But it’s un true . Iron sharpens iron to some degree, but what you do in life is a choice and what sort of thoughts you think is what your life will manifest. There is a lot of good out there and what ever you learn is how you took it in and used it. It could have came from anywhere, never give the org the credit.
What Kevin says near the end is such a powerful statement. I also believe we in the X community (that's a great name) can show each other the genuine love which was promised by the cult but was never delivered. I love you all!
I'm not an active witness nowadayS ,I really regreated of stepping away from the organization....the joy the genuine love of brothers and sisters.....the world's has a lot to offer but loving Jehovah & following his commandments was the best things to do.....
@@xanderlazerda4351 What's great about this forum is you can share your opinion without being judged. Even though most of us don't share that opinion. However, something must have made you leave. If it was all a great experience you would still be there. You may just be focusing on the good thoughts and ignoring what you saw or experienced which caused you to leave.
Thanks for sharing this great interview. Steve and David are both very brave for coming forward and sharing their stories. The interview really shows how unloving the organization is and the detrimental effects it can have on those trapped in it. Keep up the great work!
I am thankful for once again seeing logical, reasonable, level headed, factual information and experiences being shared to bring light to the true inner workings of this organization! Thank you to both interviewed for your insightful and heartfelt testimonies. And as always, thank you Lloyd for all you do! So much I could say about the things said but that would take up an entire page here lol, I wont bore you with a novel of commentary.
Lloyd thank you so much for another great interview. Kevin and Brandon thank you both for standing up and being counted. Helping someone wake-up is really a difficult proposition isn't it? Wow I have made my mistakes! It is like engaging in an intricate dance, and learning to move with the music and trying to keep from stepping on toes. Welcome to this huge and wonderful world, who knows what mankind will accomplish in the centuries ahead! (I miss Hitch)
Another great episode and thanks to Kevin and Brandon for having the courage and conviction to participate. I think most who support and truly appreciate the John Cedars channel can relate to and concur with the closing sentiments of the former Bethelites in keeping a healthy perspective of activism and how our actions determine who are targetted so to speak. We see those lines crossed/blurred all too often and of course, emotions and deep feelings play a role here understandably. Just another great video and reinforces the value of supporting this channel.
Nicely handled, even-handed interview, Lloyd. Brandon and Kevin come across as regular guys who took seriously their service at Bethel and who still can see very positive aspects of their service. Full of helpful observations and insights.
Great interview. These guys are heroes. Thanks to them for their courage and to Lloyd for keeping our advocacy current. I used to think for neighbors I'd want a Mormon family on one side and JW's on the other. That's changed. Now I'll take a Mormon family on one side and loving former JW's like so many I've come to know. Strong, human, compassionate. Great people.
Really enjoyed this episode. Very insightful look into the life of Bethelites. The closing comments from Kevin and Brandon were excellent. I wholeheartedly support the premise that activism should be done from a loving stance. Well done to all three of you! Marco 👏👌❤
I (a woman) first learned of the Shepherd book when I was in my mid 20’s when I came across the book while I was helping my friend Chelle clean her new house after she’d gotten married. I said, “When did this book come out? I haven’t seen it.” She had this halting, nervous tone when she said, “It’s the elder’s book, you can’t read it.” Her nervousness was probably because she knew I would defiantly crack it open, which I attempted to do. She leapt over the coffee table between us to snatch it out of my hands. Her reaction really shook me up- why couldn’t I read it? Wasn’t it spiritual food? We had an hour long discussion about this and afterwards I still could not understand why she wasn’t bothered by this secret book. I was determined to get my hands on a copy, to find out what was being hidden from me.
Almost two years and I still come back to watch this like it’s the first time. Kevin is so so so sincere and articulate with his words wise young man with full of genuineness this is no slight on Brandon but Kevin seemingly had that feeling of pillow gate on his chest for sometime and felt this was the time to get it off of his chest. Oddly though I feel he was centering it towards Cedars.... at least slightly being he did seem to find it very amusing in his rebuttal. All in all though this is in my opinion the best interview I’ve saw from Lloyd 🙌🏾
Great video Kevin and Brandon. Welcome to freedom. It hurst to learn the truth about the (truth)but it’s a relieve to be free from the cult. Thanks for sharing all that information . Thank you Lloyd ❤️❤️ as always, great video.
Another excellent video! I have been out since 2006. I can't believe how much has changed from the organization that I grew up in. Until watching these videos, I thought it would be easy to pretend to be a JW again anytime I wanted, but I was so wrong. I left before I had read or watched anything anti JW on the internet. I faded and just left and never came back. I agree it is never a good idea to force feed this information to current witnesses, I just hope your kind , understanding and factual delivery of this message will wake up those questioning and help them get past their fear and really look into the religion they have chosen or have had chosen for them. I am in the process of reading your books now and just want to say a big Thank You!
Thanks for a fascinating interview. When I was in, Bethel seemed almost mystical, like the closest to paradise one could be on this side of Armageddon. Hearing these experiences is so interesting. It reinforces just how “man made” the organization truly is. I would think being at Bethel would cause a person to wake up quicker than just being in a congregation. I think most witnesses have a very romanticized view of Bethel. Very sad that so many honest hearted people are so disillusioned.
I visited HQ and walkhill in 98 and it was an eye opener, evasive answers, generic statements scripted answers when I asked if the Bethelites were expected to keep high service hours the head of the dept wanted my name and Kh I attended .....I faded soon after
I revisit this video occasionally because of the Genuine Honesty of the participants. These Young Men went through these experiences and relate with total honesty. They left and put their own life experience out there for all to observe. They both paid a very life-altering and devastating result for their courage. It's not a matter of disseminating hatred it's not an attempt to tear down. They put forward they're own personal experiences and the observer can see the Genuine and Heartfelt sincerity in the conversation. People who make the effort in life to help others and work toward a goal of making life better for others deserve to be acknowledged.
Very insightful interview. Compassion can go a long way in this world. Something we should all be more mindful of. Thank you Lloyd for another wonderful video.
I'm anxious to speak to bethelites of any gender. Obviously the majority of bethelites are male but I hope to arrange some women who have been through the experience for future episodes. :)
was thinking the exact same thing. I wonder what the ratio of women v men (bethelites) leaving would be? Perhaps women are used to being more subservient and less likely to leave willingly... just a thought
Also it could have a lot to do with the fact that they don’t get the higher up jobs like the men do so I don’t know how interesting it would sound. But who knows maybe the women would have some good tidbits to tell us.
Wow, great show, John! I’m a new subscriber. I am not an Ex JW but I am an ex evangelical Christian. I have had many JW’s come to my doors over the years. They are always very kind but I always sort of felt sorry for them. I now direct them to yours and other ex JW websites if they seem open to it. I am always kind when planting the seed of freedom. 😜 I have to say that I am really impressed with the spiritual advancement of your two guests. Fine young men, indeed. I am challenged by them to have compassion for some of my hyper religious friends who annoy the crap out of me now but whom I still love Lol 😂 👍
I was very impressed with the maturity your guests displayed. They obviously were very caring in their comments and displayed love and compassion to those they worked with and became friends with while at bethel. Thank you for an outstanding interview. I too don’t have animosity or hatred towards those in the congregations I was apart of in spite of the many hurtful things I experienced over a 50 plus year association in the organization. They do not have “the truth” and continue to mislead people.
Loved this interview. The attitudes of gratitude, love for their former family and just overall positivity in light of giving years to this cult was quite surprising. I'd like to see Fifth interview these gentlemen and focus more of themselves and of their story and why they left.
Thank you both for sharing such wonderful insight! Your experiences add to my journey in understanding as an ex JW and dealing with my parents still being “in”. Kevin, so many things you said hit home and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your beautiful words of wisdom!
I’m eagerly looking forward to the follow up on Bomb #1! It’s a good time for someone to head to the Bunker.... Thank you to the panel for sharing your insights. Great episode.
I would love to see more of this series. Additionally if you make more please add them to a play list. As a complete outsider I tend to binge watch certain section if your videos. Playlists definitely make me watch more. Thanks for what you do for your community!!!
i went to visit bethel brooklyn and the farm in the late 60's as a young teen...congregations used to come together and charter a plane, think it was a 3 day trip...my most vivid memory was going to the united nations Anyone remember the kelly green bibles?
It just blows my mind that the leaders of these kinds of churches are so crazy that they either: A)Believe it all so much that they think they are the literal mouthpieces for God Or B)Know its all lies and continue to push it. I feel so bad for everyone still stuck there and everyone who had to break relations with family. Their leaders are failing them, and if there is a God, I can only hope He deals with them accordingly.
Awesome interview!!! I would love to share this with my JW friend from college who homeschools her son and dreams of him going to Bethel. But of course she will never watch this or anything else I share with her! I was never a JW but I did study with her for about a year. Little by little I did my own research and would try to share what I had learned. Not once would she open a link. She is now shunning me, her bible student!!! When I learned about how they are required to submit their publisher card, we would laugh that my study once a week added 6 months to her report. Now she won’t even pick up a call from me.
Absolutely excellent video...i appreciate these two young men...great comments, thoughts and experiences. Honestly, respectful and definitely informative.
Any woman ex bethelites??? That would be interesting. I think statistically men would easly walk away where woman is more attached emotionally to thr religion. Unless its a couple that left bethel together which again is SUPER RARE... :(
I know countless so called regular JW sisters who are single and past their child bearing years. Apparently even J Hova's men are not quite cutting the cheese for the JW sister's tastes. They are waiting on Harmageddon followed by Paradise and a truckload of handsome God fearing, wood splitting men who put the toilet seat down and don't dare look at all the other beautiful women in Paradise.
I’ll also add that this was a fascinating interview to hear the good and the bad. It’s interesting how they are so preoccupied with image and not being truthful. Wouldn’t that be considered as an attribute of the “world?”
Another Lloyd classic quote: "pillow feathers everywhere"; reference to married Bethelite couple and internet usage. Thanks for using vivid words to paint a memorable mental picture! Thanks to Brandon & Kevin for sharing their concluding thoughts, well said!
I'm a female, African, ex bethelite and my experience was very different. Racism, sexism and misogyny was the order of the day. Very horrible, abusive experience.
I can picture that. I think men’s experiences are different because they’re more likely vying for higher up positions. From various stories I’ve heard men seem to get punished harsher than women across the board in the congregations. Maybe seen as more of a threat to the elders/other men? There was even a couple that “got too close” before marriage and the wife got private reproof but husband was disfellowshipped.
I’m glad you interviewed these two. Not everyone has had a horrible time in the org. I think if we can find something that we did enjoy in our journey thru the sect, we can root out a lot of anger that can literally stop our progression thru life. IMHO. 🙏 thank you!
Yeah, I think that was a great interview as well. I’m only 37 days out, my wife and I. I was a witness for 20 years. I appreciated their incite into Bethel, it was very interesting. I agree in the closing comments, about showing compassion, and being considerate about activism. We are not going to hurry the process, even know there are several damaging things that we have learned about the Organization. People, if they are going to wake up, it’s probably going to be because of carefully and considerately placed truths, their vantage points are pretty fixated on Watchtower doctrine. Thanks
I love you guys, The final comments were awesome. I do not hate any Jw's, I feel so sorry for those held captive to destructive, manipulative policies with in the Bethel home, and every other Jw's life.
I've watched so many of your interviews. This was my favorite! I wish I could talk to the 3 of you. I don't have as many stories, but few very similar ones.
So this is Kevin. No wonder you filmed it before moving to the bunker, wise move, you can't trust him not to give the location away. Theochronic Warfare ftw!
@@sinematic06 He's making a joke referring to "The Bunker Series" where Kevin is the character that doesn't go out in service enough and then forsakes the org and doesn't come to the basement bunker.
Kevin and Brandon, thank you for acknowledging not only the intelligence, but the dedication and longevity of the sisters. Being a former sister of a Spanish-speaking congregation (former regular pioneer and proven track record of new recruits) many of the elders and young brother would use the patriarchy system to diminish my contributions to the congregation. I can even recall the wife of a tenured elder tell me in front of my mother that I was brazen. I remember staying quiet and smiling. She looked at me with hate in her eyes and said, "that's not a compliment." She went on to say, "you refuse to conform to Jehovah." She asked, "Why do you refuse to accept council from the elders?" Unfortunately, the patriarchy system is already rooted in Latin American culture. I could go on about bureaucracy within the organization. For example, my older brother was denied privileges because he was not a U.S. Citizen. The two witness rule truly affected me in my abusive marriage. When my older brother was DF'd, because he wanted to marry his worldly wife. The psychological toll it took on my younger sister (she became a child bride at 14 years of age). My younger brother developed sever depression and anxiety by the age of 8. For me the whole breaking point was when I wanted to go to University. The elders came to my house to council me with my ex-husband. How I woke up was in the middle of a judicial meeting. In 2004 I simply faded from the org., not DF'd, just reproved. This was the only time I left quietly, because my mother is still much in the org. I think what bothered me more about the Spanish-speaking congregations is that sometimes standards were not biblical based, it was cultural.
I have just started it to listen to all of this and I have noticed a common theme among the Spanish congregations. Lots of cultural things and standards to live up to. I think the Spanish witnesses have it a lot worse sometimes
@@theresaakins2317😮no the English are more rigid, the Spanish are more fun loving but the issue is the hot Latin blood get in trouble trying to find a mate, 😂
Thats the same BS I was shafted with in the first KH I attended when the elders used flawed judgement in the way they treated poorer less educated families, some had little or no money and low paying jobs.....they were constantly in the back room colourfull shirts platform shoes wrinkled suits pray more work harder pioneer so even if you make a bad decision you can still be blessed by pioneering increasing time in serice......when I questioned the treatment these ones received I was told elders can make bad decisions that Jehovah will bless ....was I really that fogged in my head to believe that??????
@@stephaniebeecham-smythe5912 I came in the truth as an unmarried single young mother on public assistance! Triple whammy. Boy was I looked down on, pitied, and condescended to big time. I felt like the lowest of low for no reason.
Theresa Akins I feel for you! My mother was a single parent too... and my father was an alcoholic, disfellowshipped former elder who had also tricked a lot of people out of lots of different things. We were scum apparently? Me, my sister and my mum tried our hardest, with no money and no family to help us. No lie, it was really hard. I look back and see some people genuinely cared, but most of the time, others seem to be nasty and pre-judging. It really has affected me to this day. I am married with a child on the way, and I tell my husband how difficult it was, and he keeps telling me it won’t be like that with us, because we sincerely don’t know anyone that nasty anymore. Onwards and upwards 😀
“Cliff you were nasty with those napkins” lol Kevin you’re killing me! Great to see you here man. Very proud of you! We need more voices like yours
Haha Called you straight out for being a "naaaaasssty cat"...
@@kamdenpine1024 Pick Loooooop! Yaddidimean? You both have more courage than me. I can't say too much as I need to stay in for now. Don't ask. It's complicated. But you were both great friends to me out at WKL. It's obvious that neither of you are evil, selfish, or bitter. Love you guys.
@@thedemysticist6730 Pick Loop, eh? You’re a classic then! Reach out when you’re ready. You can count on my extreme discretion.
@@kamdenpine1024 I can't seem to find an email for you as I've switched phones, computers, etc in the past decade. Mine is in my YT profile if you feel like sending me something. But no pressure. I don't want to make anything difficult for you either.
Wow. I’m floored by Kevin’s kindness, emotional intelligence, vocabulary, and deep spirituality. 🥰 Great video Lloyd!
clandestine73647 Yeah, I was actually wondering if he has his own YT channel!
I think your falling in love with him 💙
Lol
I know Kevin and his family. I look forward to them waking up and I will give them a big hug!
I have a copy of the KS10 I downloaded and printed off.
A JW elder used to shop with his wife in the store I worked in. One day I asked them about the elders book and he told me directly that he had no idea what I was talking about. So the following week I brought mine in and asked if he wanted mine, I said I'd just print another one off. His face was priceless 😂
What is this KS10 book and how can I find it?
@@raakillya
Shepherd. Of the flock
Type SK 10 book on the internet
All will Revealed
Thank you both for giving such a compassionate, nuanced interview. As an ex-Witness who still dearly loves her Witness family and has so many good memories of childhood friends and mentors - but just couldn't believe the theology and deplored many of the cultish practices - this was very healing for me. I could so relate to many of the things you said. I wish you both the very best.
The term used at the beginning of the interview, that Bethel is “a cult within a cult”. Best. Description. Ever.
What a great video, coming from a place of love and even offering love to the ones who are shunning you because you realize their minds are not their own. I think Kevin’s quote was amazing and beautiful when he said “It feels good to call all of humanity my brothers and sisters not just a select few.” This is one of my biggest problems with the Watchtower society, well that and the misogyny that so heavily influences the culture. Thank you so much you guys, I really hope some witnesses can see this and understand where those that have left are coming from!
Excellent way to start the week with an interview of two quite long time Bethelites. Eight to nine years a piece is a LONG time. Loving the insights from these awoken young men and it's great to hear they are not embittered when they easily could be after a TTATT wake-up call and subsequent shunning for walking away.
“There’s nobody here that can help me”, commenting on the lack of scrutiny of the gov body. What a powerful statement
I definitely remember Jehovah can bless a bad decision. Terrible reasoning. Thanks Brandon
I love the definition of spiritual being a fully conscious human being. I aspire to this kind of spirituality. So nice to hear those words. Great interview! Thanks to all!
You should do female ex-bethelites.
Most woman are only there because of their husbands so chances are she not leaving unless he does.
Ill do them.
Heck yez
Yes! That would be fantastic. So many ex-JW voices are men and women have totally different experiences.
Wow I love this video. I am ex jehovah and was born and raised in it. Makes me more not want to go back to Jehovah.
This interview I needed to listen to more than once. Many levels - the humanity is palpable from all. The rush to lock down the IT pulls at many emotions. The disclosure of the levels of secrecy is disturbing considering it is supposed to be the channel of truth to all humanity. Lloyd your point on the amount of monies needed is in direct amount of monies contributed is one of the boxes I ticked as a study not a born in. A very well rounded interview and the point made about ‘pillowgate’ really spoke to the love and understanding of you men to those we have left behind - for now! By your love you will know them speaks volumes here even though I now identify as agnostic although humanistic - love is love (as adults it is not unconditional as that belongs to our children ) but love that embraces differences as it does not diminish self. Thankyou once again Lloyd your time and effort appreciated.
In all honesty, Lloyd Evan's has consistently been the number one person responsible for me saying, "Wow" on multiple occasions in my entire life. Thank you very much for helping me wake up.
Thank you, all three of you!
I loved the whole discussion! The comment that kevin made about pillowgate really was needed awareness! Although we can laugh and kid around with this, a more serious watchtower control in personal lives really does affect us! When you think about how restrictive you are made to be and your thoughts that a pillow will solve this issue of masterbation then the watchtower still says thats a sin! Wow ! I remember as a kid pre teens kissing a girl and was in major trouble, i did resort to pretending with a pillow after that until my later teens! What a cruel cult this was!
This is one of the best videos I’ve watched in awhile on this channel. I love their objectivity. Both have a very balance view of their experiences. This attitude is helpful because it’s so easy to dwell on the negativity from being a JW. Both gentlemen seem emotionally healthy. Great job! 👏
That was so interesting! The argument with that elder's wife over shipping a sealed box of elder manuals completely underscores the Pharisaical nature of the organization. Once again we see wonderful human beings who leave the organization because they saw firsthand, in the Bethel headquarters, that it was just another man made organization.
Susan Gaskin I found that so many ‘stellar’ JWs would go to Bethel, and then end up leaving the JWs. Like Andrea! That always shocked me because I figured it would be the other way ‘round. So something bad is happening at The Big House.
Susan I laughed so much about that. It is like a superstition. Do not touch. Secrets are nearly always power plays.
Lloyd Lloyd. There you go making my face rainy again. Kevin's message was just so touching. Keep up the work, just don't make us cry too often.
I had the same reaction. Glad to know I wasnt the only one :)
Sad very sad😢😢
It totally amazes me the love these men still have for people that have shunned them. Good qualities we could learn from them ❤
Part of the gaslighting, give it some years.
Because they know the most are good people.
So many are leaving this cult. I left after I met a Christian woman when coming to her house in my Door to Door work: she shared 1st John 2:26, 27 with me and then said she would Pray for me. I read it and it changed my life forever....her Prayer worked. I remember being in High School when my older Brother left Bethel and was very disappointed with what He saw and experienced there. I felt so bad for him because my Parents were so ashamed of him for quitting....all they could think of was what the others at the Kingdom Hall would think of our family. You said it right about image obsession....it was always that way. I have gained so many Brothers and Sisters since I became a Born Again Believer in Jesus Christ. There is a BIG difference in Knowing Jesus Christ Vs. just knowing about Him. Ask Him to show you HIS TRUTH remember Jeremiah 29:13....he will not deny you. God Bless you Brothers!
I like the fact this young man is thinking with human compassion well said Kevin
I can’t believe there are 39👎 This was such an honest , loving & truthful interview !!! Goes to show that some JW
“cannot handle the truth “
I feel that these are the most effective videos that you do, Lloyd. Not that any of your videos or podcasts are bad in any way, or ineffective. Just that I think real life experiences of exJW members are the best thing that active members could find! I know that the fake Watchtower “experiences” were what brainwashed me and kept me locked in that cult. If I could’ve heard these real experiences, then I would’ve easily extracted myself from that cult.
What a great couple of guys.. touching closing comments. I too love being able to see all breathing humans as brothers or connected divinely. Whereas when I was a JW, I saw the worldly person was lessor. So I really appreciate those closing comments he gave to his old friends at bethel. Also remember though that the watchtower love to take credit for the good qualities that people possess in the .org. That is something that was said to me from people , just before my waking up. But it’s un true . Iron sharpens iron to some degree, but what you do in life is a choice and what sort of thoughts you think is what your life will manifest. There is a lot of good out there and what ever you learn is how you took it in and used it. It could have came from anywhere, never give the org the credit.
What Kevin says near the end is such a powerful statement. I also believe we in the X community (that's a great name) can show each other the genuine love which was promised by the cult but was never delivered. I love you all!
I'm not an active witness nowadayS ,I really regreated of stepping away from the organization....the joy the genuine love of brothers and sisters.....the world's has a lot to offer but loving Jehovah & following his commandments was the best things to do.....
@@xanderlazerda4351 What's great about this forum is you can share your opinion without being judged. Even though most of us don't share that opinion. However, something must have made you leave. If it was all a great experience you would still be there. You may just be focusing on the good thoughts and ignoring what you saw or experienced which caused you to leave.
Always topping yourself, Mr. Evans. Great interview and thank the guests for their bravery, fortitude and humanity.
Thanks for sharing this great interview. Steve and David are both very brave for coming forward and sharing their stories. The interview really shows how unloving the organization is and the detrimental effects it can have on those trapped in it. Keep up the great work!
I am thankful for once again seeing logical, reasonable, level headed, factual information and experiences being shared to bring light to the true inner workings of this organization! Thank you to both interviewed for your insightful and heartfelt testimonies. And as always, thank you Lloyd for all you do! So much I could say about the things said but that would take up an entire page here lol, I wont bore you with a novel of commentary.
Lloyd thank you so much for another great interview. Kevin and Brandon thank you both for standing up and being counted.
Helping someone wake-up is really a difficult proposition isn't it? Wow I have made my mistakes!
It is like engaging in an intricate dance, and learning to move with the music and trying to keep from stepping on toes. Welcome to this huge and wonderful world, who knows what mankind will accomplish in the centuries ahead! (I miss Hitch)
Yes, thank you for your HUMANITY & COMPASSION! Wonderful words of wisdom! I also applaud you! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Great interview!!!!
Another great episode and thanks to Kevin and Brandon for having the courage and conviction to participate. I think most who support and truly appreciate the John Cedars channel can relate to and concur with the closing sentiments of the former Bethelites in keeping a healthy perspective of activism and how our actions determine who are targetted so to speak. We see those lines crossed/blurred all too often and of course, emotions and deep feelings play a role here understandably. Just another great video and reinforces the value of supporting this channel.
Nicely handled, even-handed interview, Lloyd. Brandon and Kevin come across as regular guys who took seriously their service at Bethel and who still can see very positive aspects of their service. Full of helpful observations and insights.
Great interview. These guys are heroes. Thanks to them for their courage and to Lloyd for keeping our advocacy current. I used to think for neighbors I'd want a Mormon family on one side and JW's on the other. That's changed. Now I'll take a Mormon family on one side and loving former JW's like so many I've come to know. Strong, human, compassionate. Great people.
Really enjoyed this episode. Very insightful look into the life of Bethelites.
The closing comments from Kevin and Brandon were excellent. I wholeheartedly support the premise that activism should be done from a loving stance.
Well done to all three of you!
Marco 👏👌❤
Really great guy's who are genuinely willing to help both active and ex JW community. All the best for the future and keep up the good work. 😊
I (a woman) first learned of the Shepherd book when I was in my mid 20’s when I came across the book while I was helping my friend Chelle clean her new house after she’d gotten married. I said, “When did this book come out? I haven’t seen it.”
She had this halting, nervous tone when she said, “It’s the elder’s book, you can’t read it.” Her nervousness was probably because she knew I would defiantly crack it open, which I attempted to do. She leapt over the coffee table between us to snatch it out of my hands. Her reaction really shook me up- why couldn’t I read it? Wasn’t it spiritual food? We had an hour long discussion about this and afterwards I still could not understand why she wasn’t bothered by this secret book. I was determined to get my hands on a copy, to find out what was being hidden from me.
So did you find a copy? The latest updates are quite interesting...
Almost two years and I still come back to watch this like it’s the first time. Kevin is so so so sincere and articulate with his words wise young man with full of genuineness this is no slight on Brandon but Kevin seemingly had that feeling of pillow gate on his chest for sometime and felt this was the time to get it off of his chest. Oddly though I feel he was centering it towards Cedars.... at least slightly being he did seem to find it very amusing in his rebuttal. All in all though this is in my opinion the best interview I’ve saw from Lloyd 🙌🏾
Great video Kevin and Brandon. Welcome to freedom. It hurst to learn the truth about the (truth)but it’s a relieve to be free from the cult. Thanks for sharing all that information . Thank you Lloyd ❤️❤️ as always, great video.
Wow great interview, love these ex bethelites interviews, thank u all❤
Awesome speech at the end Kevin. Really hits home to someone who’s never experienced sexual repression.
Another excellent video! I have been out since 2006. I can't believe how much has changed from the organization that I grew up in. Until watching these videos, I thought it would be easy to pretend to be a JW again anytime I wanted, but I was so wrong. I left before I had read or watched anything anti JW on the internet. I faded and just left and never came back. I agree it is never a good idea to force feed this information to current witnesses, I just hope your kind , understanding and factual delivery of this message will wake up those questioning and help them get past their fear and really look into the religion they have chosen or have had chosen for them. I am in the process of reading your books now and just want to say a big Thank You!
Thanks for a fascinating interview. When I was in, Bethel seemed almost mystical, like the closest to paradise one could be on this side of Armageddon. Hearing these experiences is so interesting. It reinforces just how “man made” the organization truly is. I would think being at Bethel would cause a person to wake up quicker than just being in a congregation. I think most witnesses have a very romanticized view of Bethel. Very sad that so many honest hearted people are so disillusioned.
I visited HQ and walkhill in 98 and it was an eye opener, evasive answers, generic statements scripted answers when I asked if the Bethelites were expected to keep high service hours the head of the dept wanted my name and Kh I attended .....I faded soon after
This was a very emotional interview for these ex-bethelites 💔 the pain of loss is there❤️ thank you, this “Is Absolutely hitting home.”
I revisit this video occasionally because of the Genuine Honesty of the participants. These Young Men went through these experiences and relate with total honesty. They left and put their own life experience out there for all to observe. They both paid a very life-altering and devastating result for their courage. It's not a matter of disseminating hatred it's not an attempt to tear down. They put forward they're own personal experiences and the observer can see the Genuine and Heartfelt sincerity in the conversation. People who make the effort in life to help others and work toward a goal of making life better for others deserve to be acknowledged.
Very insightful interview. Compassion can go a long way in this world. Something we should all be more mindful of. Thank you Lloyd for another wonderful video.
Another great video Lloyd! Thank you to the gentlemen for taking the time to share their stories.
Great interviews as usual, Lloyd. Have you ever interviewed female former Bethelites? If not I think that would be a wonderful interview.
I'm anxious to speak to bethelites of any gender. Obviously the majority of bethelites are male but I hope to arrange some women who have been through the experience for future episodes. :)
was thinking the exact same thing. I wonder what the ratio of women v men (bethelites) leaving would be? Perhaps women are used to being more subservient and less likely to leave willingly... just a thought
Also it could have a lot to do with the fact that they don’t get the higher up jobs like the men do so I don’t know how interesting it would sound. But who knows maybe the women would have some good tidbits to tell us.
Thanks, Lloyd.
I Think EX-JW Critical Thinkers UA-cam channel may have an interview or two of female ex-Bethelites
Wow, great show, John! I’m a new subscriber. I am not an Ex JW but I am an ex evangelical Christian. I have had many JW’s come to my doors over the years. They are always very kind but I always sort of felt sorry for them. I now direct them to yours and other ex JW websites if they seem open to it. I am always kind when planting the seed of freedom. 😜
I have to say that I am really impressed with the spiritual advancement of your two guests. Fine young men, indeed. I am challenged by them to have compassion for some of my hyper religious friends who annoy the crap out of me now but whom I still love Lol 😂 👍
I was very impressed with the maturity your guests displayed. They obviously were very caring in their comments and displayed love and compassion to those they worked with and became friends with while at bethel. Thank you for an outstanding interview. I too don’t have animosity or hatred towards those in the congregations I was apart of in spite of the many hurtful things I experienced over a 50 plus year association in the organization. They do not have “the truth” and continue to mislead people.
Loved listening to Brandon and Kevin’s stories.
Loved this interview. The attitudes of gratitude, love for their former family and just overall positivity in light of giving years to this cult was quite surprising.
I'd like to see Fifth interview these gentlemen and focus more of themselves and of their story and why they left.
Thank you both for sharing such wonderful insight! Your experiences add to my journey in understanding as an ex JW and dealing with my parents still being “in”. Kevin, so many things you said hit home and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your beautiful words of wisdom!
I’m eagerly looking forward to the follow up on Bomb #1! It’s a good time for someone to head to the Bunker.... Thank you to the panel for sharing your insights. Great episode.
These videos are so important. Thanks, guys!
I would love to see more of this series. Additionally if you make more please add them to a play list. As a complete outsider I tend to binge watch certain section if your videos. Playlists definitely make me watch more. Thanks for what you do for your community!!!
Hi! If you scroll down the channel page you should see the "Tell All" playlist. It alternates between elders and bethelites. :)
What goodhearted young men.....they still consider many of the conditional love friends to be friends. It’s so sad.
And they are right to feel that way. Their friends are also victims Of The cult.
Wow! This is such a revealing video. My impression of Bethel is that it's a regimented way of life. Thanks for sharing
wannabe freespirit it is!!! It’s not merely bethel being a witness period is all about regimen
I love the commentary about Pillowgate at the end. Such wisdom.
Thanks guys, this was interesting. God bless you in your decision and your future. Thanks John Cedars for giving them a venue.
i went to visit bethel brooklyn and the farm in the late 60's as a young teen...congregations used to come together and charter a plane, think it was a 3 day trip...my most vivid memory was going to the united nations
Anyone remember the kelly green bibles?
I think I still have the green Bible
How brilliant to hear Kevin and Brandon's experiences.
So thoughtful and kind.
Thank you for your last message Kevin. I appreciate you saying those words.
Kevin, beautiful message. Brandon made me tear up. Thank you both
It just blows my mind that the leaders of these kinds of churches are so crazy that they either:
A)Believe it all so much that they think they are the literal mouthpieces for God
Or
B)Know its all lies and continue to push it.
I feel so bad for everyone still stuck there and everyone who had to break relations with family. Their leaders are failing them, and if there is a God, I can only hope He deals with them accordingly.
Awesome interview!!! I would love to share this with my JW friend from college who homeschools her son and dreams of him going to Bethel. But of course she will never watch this or anything else I share with her! I was never a JW but I did study with her for about a year. Little by little I did my own research and would try to share what I had learned. Not once would she open a link. She is now shunning me, her bible student!!! When I learned about how they are required to submit their publisher card, we would laugh that my study once a week added 6 months to her report. Now she won’t even pick up a call from me.
Awesome video. We are all victims and need help. Thanks to these two for there fine comments. Great guys.
Fantastic interview Lloyd!! Thanks again!
This interview touched such a cord,these videos have been the therapy and understanding i needed so badly..i am so grateful for all you do..
Brilliant, I'd love to hear their wake up stories if they are willing to be interviewed about that!
Absolutely excellent video...i appreciate these two young men...great comments, thoughts and experiences. Honestly, respectful and definitely informative.
I am very happy for you, both. There are many out here that care about you. Thanks, Lloyd.
Another great interview. And thank you all for giving us such "insight"
Any woman ex bethelites??? That would be interesting. I think statistically men would easly walk away where woman is more attached emotionally to thr religion. Unless its a couple that left bethel together which again is SUPER RARE... :(
I know countless so called regular JW sisters who are single and past their child bearing years. Apparently even J Hova's men are not quite cutting the cheese for the JW sister's tastes. They are waiting on Harmageddon followed by Paradise and a truckload of handsome God fearing, wood splitting men who put the toilet seat down and don't dare look at all the other beautiful women in Paradise.
I love, love, love the parting messages: beautiful
Wow. Fantastic episode - what a great pair of guys.
Thank you for that last bit especially Kevin. It is utterly heartbreaking
*pillowgate
Lloyd this has got to be the most interesting videos I've seen from you and thank you
I’ll also add that this was a fascinating interview to hear the good and the bad. It’s interesting how they are so preoccupied with image and not being truthful. Wouldn’t that be considered as an attribute of the “world?”
Awoke & shunned but also happy to once again consider all people brothers and sisters. Thank you guys.
Never meet your heroes(Governing Body Members) because they're sure to disappoint you.
Another Lloyd classic quote: "pillow feathers everywhere"; reference to married Bethelite couple and internet usage. Thanks for using vivid words to paint a memorable mental picture! Thanks to Brandon & Kevin for sharing their concluding thoughts, well said!
"No mention in the bible of a secret manual" yet Watch Tower goes beyond what is written --- without conscience. Hierarchical or what?! :/
I'm a female, African, ex bethelite and my experience was very different.
Racism, sexism and misogyny was the order of the day.
Very horrible, abusive experience.
I'm so interested in your experience sis
I can picture that. I think men’s experiences are different because they’re more likely vying for higher up positions. From various stories I’ve heard men seem to get punished harsher than women across the board in the congregations. Maybe seen as more of a threat to the elders/other men? There was even a couple that “got too close” before marriage and the wife got private reproof but husband was disfellowshipped.
This is great! Thank you guys!
Guy Pierce was also my curcuit overseer in the 80's.
This was both illuminating and moving.
WOW. I never thought I’d live to hear the term “Dark Net” associated with Watchtower.
I’m glad you interviewed these two. Not everyone has had a horrible time in the org. I think if we can find something that we did enjoy in our journey thru the sect, we can root out a lot of anger that can literally stop our progression thru life. IMHO. 🙏 thank you!
Thanx a million you guys for sharing your story and Lloyd again for arranging this.
Yeah, I think that was a great interview as well. I’m only 37 days out, my wife and I. I was a witness for 20 years. I appreciated their incite into Bethel, it was very interesting. I agree in the closing comments, about showing compassion, and being considerate about activism. We are not going to hurry the process, even know there are several damaging things that we have learned about the Organization. People, if they are going to wake up, it’s probably going to be because of carefully and considerately placed truths, their vantage points are pretty fixated on Watchtower doctrine. Thanks
I appreciate this video. I served at Bethel on temp. I have been an x-JW for 8yrs and just appreciate the truth and honesty..
Tony Morris in a hot tub? Thanks, Lloyd, it cannot be unseen.
I love you guys, The final comments were awesome. I do not hate any Jw's, I feel so sorry for those held captive to destructive, manipulative policies with in the Bethel home, and every other Jw's life.
I've watched so many of your interviews. This was my favorite! I wish I could talk to the 3 of you. I don't have as many stories, but few very similar ones.
WOW! thank you for sharing! I just posted my video of being a Jehovah's Witness.
So this is Kevin. No wonder you filmed it before moving to the bunker, wise move, you can't trust him not to give the location away. Theochronic Warfare ftw!
Yeah that Kevin seems sketchy..
WHATTTTT?!?👀
Unfree Radical what do you mean? I’m curious lol
@@sinematic06 He's making a joke referring to "The Bunker Series" where Kevin is the character that doesn't go out in service enough and then forsakes the org and doesn't come to the basement bunker.
@@sinematic06 the "worst convention ever" bunker videos, Kevin is the name of the guy who "falls away" in the great tribbleation.
Excellent interview, men! Looking forward to getting my WT cult tee...
Kevin and Brandon, thank you for acknowledging not only the intelligence, but the dedication and longevity of the sisters. Being a former sister of a Spanish-speaking congregation (former regular pioneer and proven track record of new recruits) many of the elders and young brother would use the patriarchy system to diminish my contributions to the congregation. I can even recall the wife of a tenured elder tell me in front of my mother that I was brazen. I remember staying quiet and smiling. She looked at me with hate in her eyes and said, "that's not a compliment." She went on to say, "you refuse to conform to Jehovah." She asked, "Why do you refuse to accept council from the elders?" Unfortunately, the patriarchy system is already rooted in Latin American culture. I could go on about bureaucracy within the organization. For example, my older brother was denied privileges because he was not a U.S. Citizen. The two witness rule truly affected me in my abusive marriage. When my older brother was DF'd, because he wanted to marry his worldly wife. The psychological toll it took on my younger sister (she became a child bride at 14 years of age). My younger brother developed sever depression and anxiety by the age of 8. For me the whole breaking point was when I wanted to go to University. The elders came to my house to council me with my ex-husband. How I woke up was in the middle of a judicial meeting. In 2004 I simply faded from the org., not DF'd, just reproved. This was the only time I left quietly, because my mother is still much in the org. I think what bothered me more about the Spanish-speaking congregations is that sometimes standards were not biblical based, it was cultural.
I'm so sorry that you went through that, I hope your life now is full of love and flowers :)
M B That’s very kind of you to say. It’s not all flowers, however, not near the misery I experienced while in the truth.
I have just started it to listen to all of this and I have noticed a common theme among the Spanish congregations. Lots of cultural things and standards to live up to. I think the Spanish witnesses have it a lot worse sometimes
@@theresaakins2317😮no the English are more rigid, the Spanish are more fun loving but the issue is the hot Latin blood get in trouble trying to find a mate, 😂
Loved this so much guys..thanks
"Jehovah can bless a bad decision"... Reeeally?
Thats the same BS I was shafted with in the first KH I attended when the elders used flawed judgement in the way they treated poorer less educated families, some had little or no money and low paying jobs.....they were constantly in the back room colourfull shirts platform shoes wrinkled suits pray more work harder pioneer so even if you make a bad decision you can still be blessed by pioneering increasing time in serice......when I questioned the treatment these ones received I was told elders can make bad decisions that Jehovah will bless ....was I really that fogged in my head to believe that??????
@@stephaniebeecham-smythe5912 - I don't recall hearing this before. And with the elders we had, I'm glad that they didn't either.
@@stephaniebeecham-smythe5912 I came in the truth as an unmarried single young mother on public assistance! Triple whammy. Boy was I looked down on, pitied, and condescended to big time. I felt like the lowest of low for no reason.
Theresa Akins I feel for you! My mother was a single parent too... and my father was an alcoholic, disfellowshipped former elder who had also tricked a lot of people out of lots of different things. We were scum apparently? Me, my sister and my mum tried our hardest, with no money and no family to help us. No lie, it was really hard. I look back and see some people genuinely cared, but most of the time, others seem to be nasty and pre-judging. It really has affected me to this day. I am married with a child on the way, and I tell my husband how difficult it was, and he keeps telling me it won’t be like that with us, because we sincerely don’t know anyone that nasty anymore. Onwards and upwards 😀
Do u still listen to the songs I hated when they changed