Ex-Bethelites Tell All - Part One
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- In the first of a new series of videos, I speak to two former bethelites about their experiences in the inner sanctum of the Jehovah's Witness organization.
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I can't believe I've been a JW for 46years, six months ago I Discovered the internet I'm blown away what I'm seeing i.e. child abuse by the society, cover ups, I apologise for the victims of this terrible crime, I hope justice will come soon, I'm fading faster and faster......
Don't be so hard on yourself. Now you are free!! You still can enjoy life!
Greetings from Chile!
A couple years ago I was working for an x bethelite he became a hair dresser and one day he decided to vent to me about his experience of taking a vow of poverty and because he didn’t have a college degree they put him in the kitchen and they had him handling these heavy pots.He said his back was injured handling all the heavy pots and all the cleaning and he said within 2 months they had him out of there with no idea of what he was going to do.Fortunately his sister showed him how to do hair and he survived until he became a real estate broker.Needless to say he stopped going to meetings and was not a fan of JW’s.
I know who you are talking about. His name JUST left me. I was friends with his cousins. He does alot of funny facebook videos right?
Incognito Fool what’s his name?
He should have gotten work man's comp or state disability
You’re gorgeous 😍 thank you for sharing that story come by my channel you might enjoy a couple of my videos.
Huh, 🤣🤣🤣🤣 He decided to take a vow of poverty it wasn't forced on him. What The Fudge. And when he got his shyt together he stopped being poor. What's the big idea
I spent a lot of time in this religion and I can attest to this culture of judging. From the moment you walk into a Kingdom Hall, eyes are upon you and everyone else. Everyone sizes everyone else up. They will secretly be critical about everything, from your dress to how many hours in service you get, or even the new car you bought. Everything is hyper-scrutinized by holier-than-thou hypocrites who smile to your face and tell you how happy they are to see you, then sit there gossiping behind your back.
Haha THIS is an accurate description. I was raised this way, and had guilt and fear instilled in me from year one. The gross hypocrisy is the general underlying theme across the board. SO happy to be free from the chains.
Exactly!! I always felt like everyone behaved as though they were in a competition to see who was living more favorably in Jehovah's eyes. There was definitely a holier than thou vibe among certain brothers and sisters and even elders. It made me feel deeply uncomfortable and insecure as a child, as though nothing I did would ever be good enough. It's really insane to see how much pressure and fear they pump into children who are caught up in this cult.
That's a bald faced lie Slade a total lie. People may experience that in other churches I know I did. Jehovah's Witnesses know more then any other that sitting in judgment of people is wrong there is no such thing as sizing you up why are you lying? I have never seen a Witness act holier than thou but I have seen it in other religions. I'm not a Jehovah Witness so I will call you out for the liar you are the question is why?
@@denniscerasoli6209 I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I know for a fact there are many JW’s that act like they are more holy, or better than the next. The only difference is, is that JW’s will tell outsiders that their members like that do no exist. I’m sure for a fact there are people like this throughout all religious organizations, but to say JW’s are free from this is just not true. Also, judging from your answer, you most likely have gone to the Kingdom Hall at the least, because you seem to “know” about Jehovah’s Witnesses. It’s ok, I used to act like I wasn’t a JW on anti JW videos in the past.
As I read this, I find this super interesting because I wasn't raised in a first world country like the US, and I've always noticed (and frankly, everyone knows) just how judgmental JWs are! I thought this happened more because of my culture, but it's really interesting to see they're judgemental bitches everywhere 😂 I always thought that the meetings are actually so boring, that looking around at other people to judge was like a pastime lol
i actually was invited to have lunch at bethel, brooklyn, several years ago and i was , well shocked is the word that comes to mind. yes very much military. when a member of the governing body walked in as we were eating, everyone literally jumped up and came to attention. i thought, what the hell? i sat. no one deserves that kind of attention. ive never forgotten that. so glad im out of there
I would have been like 😱 and then... 🏃♀️........... ! I didnt realize the "governing body" was 8 individual people until some time in the last 12 months. I thought it consisted of EVERYONE who was at Bethel, working together under Gods Holy Spirit/Direction. Then I learned that one guy said in court they do not claim to operate that way (under Gods Holy Direction). Then I saw some dude making a news report on their website about the plandemic acting as if it was a pandemic, pretty much repeating the same fake news narrative and I was like 😱 😱 🤯 these people are NOT under Gods direction if they cant tell who is lying to them in the news !
Good for you for staying in your seat!
Modern day pharisees!!!!!!!!!
I would've belched and kept eating
Everytime I ate lunch I was always stunned at how after like maybe a half hour everyone jumped up.
Thanks a lot for having us on Lloyd! This was a great convo
Thanks for coming on Cliff! You guys were awesome! :)
You should interview my son who spent 5 years in Bethel 4 yrs in Brooklyn and 1 yr in Walkill. He left there in 2016 and was basically inactive the last 6 months only turning time into his congregation once or twice. At home his family (me, mom and two siblings were leaving the org but not telling him while he was also leaving had made up his mind to leave and hadnt told us for the same reasons.
You have a beautiful smile. Thanks for sharing.
Fifth I love watching your videos. Your interviews always captivate me. Please keep up the great work.
Wait a minute.
21:00 to 21:02
36:52 to 36:55
I'm stumbled 😂
Thank you for sharing. I’ve been out of the JW religion for over 20 years. My mother, who is still a Witness, told me how sad she was that I wouldn’t be in the new system. I was like, y’all are crazy, maniacal people I would rather die in Armageddon instead of living under the complete control of the JWs.
The same with me my dear never ever..
Oh man, my mom just literally said the same thing to me a couple weeks ago.
When I left, I literally said the same thing to my mother. I would rather live one DAY free than live forever with this kind of control. What did Jehovah give me a mind for if he would hate me for using it to form an independent thought?
personally at of these self-righteous witnesses are going to be disappointed when things turn out completely opposite of what they have been told come Armageddon. I told my JW cousin dont be surprised on that day I Tap you on the shoulder and say hey I see you made it too 😆 🤣
Im glad we are not as brainwashed as them
Slavery is legal at Bethel. All they do is make money off the poor folks working there. Could you imagine working there all those years and being thrown out to the street!? At least the military gives you schooling and money.
Could be worse,but not much.Check out what Scientology does to Sea Org,no longer useful.
Really, they give you housing, food and everything else you need. What's the slavery part. It's not a job stupid it's volunteering.
As a former sister I remember volunteering at one convention in food services. Every elder that came by told us we were wrapping sandwiches wrong. I was about 14. I remember being so angry and just walked away. I never volunteered again. No one can live up to the expectations of these egomaniacs.
Wow...unbelievable!!!!
They are filth!
All you had to do was properly wrap it. Even in your younger years you were useless 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Acting like at your job your boss doesn't boss you around 😜😜😜 Fool
I know what you are saying the elders are the worst not to mention their wives they are the biggest gossiper you are scrutinize always and gossip about then you walked in every one greeting you and saying happy to see you they know they are lying I am so sad to find out this is a cult wasted so many years in it and bring my children in there we really had a difficult time in it iam trying to fade now but mentally I am totally messed up
Dear Sandra Yost: You were young. Sometimes, it doesn't take much to run you off the road. You need to boot-camp and thicken your skin. Ask the elders for a better way of wrapping -- then, hope and learn. To interact in the world of work can be rough -- It is better to stay in the JW organization and reach spiritual heights; rather than working in Satan's world with his children.
This is better than having a paying psychologist. Listening to these experiences, shows reinforcement at the choices that were Made By individual who left the Watch tower, was the right decision..
Therapeutic indeed!
I do find it fascinatingly therapeutic as well. I left some 20 years ago. Some of those first years were so brutally hard. I am thankful now that anyone leaves now will have a much easier time.
True story. If you were in, you understand. Only out 6 months and it’s better than my therapist
Ditto. Evolution. ♥️✊🍾
Absolutely
this was awesome. I really wish I had taken the opportunity to go to bethel so I could be more informed about it now. but who knows, if I had gone, maybe I wouldn't be on the outside now. I guess its best to talk to those who went through the hell so I didnt have to
JW Rebuttal ha. Thanks. I’m glad we BOTH made it out, and I’m glad you’re here to recount the stories
JW Rebuttal also you should send me an email
I never liked the idea of Bethel even though I was a 'really spiritual' sister. I never liked study or meetings or service so having to do that 24/7 sounded like hell to me. I guess I was right! ps love your channel!
@@jamieangel3766 In my opinion, there was only 3 real differences between being in Bethel as opposed to being out. Morning Worship, a lot more rules, and you're very poor. Besides that it's like the average witnesses life of going to work every day, attending meetings, and service on the weekend.
@@cardboardbox9977 urgh morning worship. Just the name pisses me off! Bible meeting at stupid o'clock in the morning, slave labour all day plus the ridiculous jw schedule. Poor bethelites! Glad I was unmarried sister - absolutely zero chance of me being invited.
My friend has a great Bethel story. He was there in 2000 or so. Anyway, he had to go home to see his mom in the hospital, and was gone for about 2 weeks. When he returned, he found out that his crazy roommate had donated his good suits to the second hand store! It turned into this huge deal, and he ended up leaving after they refused to help him track down his suits or punish the person who did it. Unreal!
That’s incredible.. shocking, really.
Thank you for this video! My ex congregation had 2 couples who were former Bethelites and you would have thought they had lived in the paradise earth to hear them talk. And everyone looked up to them like they were celebrities because they had lived there. Thank you for the fascinating insights into the reality of Bethel.
The brothers in my congregation who went were treated like the second coming of the Beatles. As a brother I'd watch in amazement as sisters literally followed these dudes around and the elders hung on their every word. I was converted in at 20 and other than athletes I'd never seen anything like it at the time.
We are programmed to say that we were in this spiritual paradise in Bethel. As we are programmed to say how amazing Pioneer School was, and how we are programmed to say how miserable we are after they disfellowship you even when you feel happy and relieved.
I lost it when Fifth said all his passwords were Bethelites 🤣😂🤣
I've visited all the Bethels in the USA and eaten lunch a couple times at Wallkill. At the time I was completely indoctrinated yet I still felt like I was in the Twilight Zone. Right now , especially hearing about the dining room nitpicking, I keep being reminded of the movie The Lobster. The nitpicking is maybe THE biggest thing for me that's always driven me away. This cult has never felt comfortable, friendly or loving to me. I was born in and I'm 49 . So is my husband. We have 3 kids that we raised this way What have we done?
I had already left for 20 years my Mom is still a JW, I let my daughter participate in the religion with her at 16 she told me she was going to be a JW for life and was never leaving, I had believed she was a smart girl and she’d figure out it wasn’t the truth. I would tell her I didn’t want her to waste her life being controlled, I’m not sure how old your kids are and if they still talk to you, but if you gently start pointing out the flaws in living your life under that level of control they may come around, my daughter did left at 18, but I also owed her an apology because I really didn’t understand the damage I was doing.
I remember last year taking the trip to see Warwick with my parents. I must say that it looks beautiful and is built around a state park, but the entire facility looks like its designed as a military compound. I remember large metal gates barring entry inside, and you had to be buzzed in by a guard who looked liked they were inside a pill box. And the entire front of the building looked like it could withstand a nuclear blast, especially with the watchtower structure looking so menacing. Once you took the tour everything that wasn't supposed to be seen was closed off, and they only showed you certain parts of the main building which looked very polished up. They also didnt let you go over to the housing complex where all the bethelites lived, we were told they were "busy" and did not want to be disturbed. Watching this video enlightens me as to why that is, because they didnt want you to talk to the bethelites incase one of them decided to speak up about what living there was actually like, everything over there felt so secretive.
Hello commenter, I know this comment is from 2 years ago but I also wanted to add I went to Warwick years ago and I was also wanted to add that was the most boring experience I've ever had in the history of my life.... Like I wasted.... 4 hrs being there lmao
The only thing they had us see was the history of the Bible and the arces outside I remember other groups went in different locations freely meanwhile our group only saw variations of the Bible and the arces, lunch and told to get out
Both of my older brothers served at Bethel and I visited Brooklyn and Patterson when I was a witness. I recall thinking at that time that I'd hate to live there. Everything seemed so sterile and phony. I felt like there were a lot of fake smiles and that everyone had to even further repress who they really were as individuals.
I'm from Brazil. And here it's the same thing. Unbelievable how exactly the same it is. Today I no longer go to meetings or preach. I was not "born in truth." I came from a sick family background, and at 16 I no longer believed in religions, only in God. I started studying the Bible, and even though I didn't agree with the rules, I took out my piercing, changed my hair color, and wanted to serve God. But it was all SO traumatic that I gave up. I even thought about killing myself because I lost faith in God. Today I'm better emotionally, I'm back to believing in God (Jehovah), but I'm definitely back to the beginning of not believing in religions. Everything should be completely different, THE TRUTH should set us free. But that's not what happened to me.
Even though I would have made my JW parents very proud, and followed in my father's footsteps, I'm happy to say, I never got to experience the pettiness, double-standards and shitty sanctimoniousness that is Bethel. Glad you guys are out.
Hi
Are you still in?
@@ishma2100 Inactive. Want to disassociate but can't because of family ties.
When I was a teenager in the 70's, a friend who was very "spiritual" went to bethel. When he came back after about 4 yrs, he was more "worldly" than some of my worldly friends. He was swearing...never, before he left. He told me that masturbation is a huge problem at bethel. I thought that quite odd at the time.
Of course you have needs !!! Your human !!!!
If God didn’t want us to masturbate or “jag off”, He would have created us so we couldn’t reach “it”! As a baptized JW, I was a habitual masturbater. Sometimes convincing other “weaker Friends”, that masturbation is okay, because it relieves the urge to “fornicate”.
My wife and her family recently went to Bethel. I am so happy I stayed behind. They came back talking about how "Beautiful" it was. I just shook my head.
Please warn them by telling them that it's a cult.
I emphasize with all you people. I had to endure this situation as a child. Raised as 3rd generation jw. I decided at 16 to ditch the dogma. Played along until I could leave home as an independent. Call it critical thinking at a young age dunno. This is how amazing the brain washing is. It doesn't mean I left unscathed. It has affected my self esteem and other things. It gives me comfort to hear this.
Same, also 3rd gen- decided early that the friends I had met at school were too awesome to be “bad association“, played along i could leave home and that was 24 years ago . ...totally living a “normal“ life (albiet with no parents or extended family that acknowledge or know if i am alive) but I feel so grateful and will forever feel bewildered by such a strange 1st act...knowing im not alone indeed feels good and watching this was soothing.
Cheers!
I had self esteem issues for years, even after I left when I was 21. The feelings of worthlessness, of never being good enough, are terrible feelings they instill in you from the time you're young. I've been out for 34 years now and it doesn't affect me now as much as it used to, but the old feelings of being worthless still pop up from time to time.
All of this is so accurate and applies to non-bethel culture, too, IMO. I remember once while pioneering, another sister who had made it her mission to be THE most perfect example in the circuit, took me aside after meeting one night to share with me an Awake article on noise pollution. When I expressed my sincere confusion-noise pollution being a rather specific thing-she sighed and looked at me with sympathetic eyes and reminded me that the other night a group of us sisters had been in the car, leaving a meal, and on the Oldies station the Beatles came on. I love The Beatles. So did another sister in the car, and we turned it up to sing along. It must have been “Twist and Shout,” I think. That could have been considered noise pollution by some, given the volume of the radio. ..... yeah.
Lol, I would have rolled my eyes at her
Wow
The manipulation.
Your experiences and laughter were so healing! It's good to be able to get to the point were we can have a chuckle over some of the shenanigans that we experienced! Thank you all!
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Fascinating!! I remember touring the Canadian bethel when I was 19 in 1987 after my first year of pioneering and worked a day on the farm and in the kitchen. I remember people at home treating me like I was 'better' when I returned from the brief trip - somehow being at bethel and relaying stories upon my return made me more 'holy' in the eyes of others - even though I felt no different. I found the place so odd and never could imagine how some people said they were so satisfied / blessed cleaning other people's rooms or laundry their entire life. Thank goodness you guys got out while you are still young and can still have a great life! Was a great look 'behind the curtain' as you say Lloyd! Thank you all 3 of you for your candour and bravery to expose the chaos and the crazy!!
I had lunch at the Canadian Bethel in September 1984 and we had delicious trout from northern Ontario. I enjoyed my day there.
Excellent insider information. My Niece is at Warwick with her husband. I think of her daily and hope her time there will help her wake up sooner than later.
The thing about that Dwelling Book is that there's a lot of rules that are not in there. While serving at Patterson Bethel, I found out about a lot of unwritten rules the hard way.
To the outsider this organization is ridiculous
I hope you get a chance to share your experiences as well.
I’m sorry you went through what you did........I am a mere sinner in need of a saviour and love our Lord Jesus Christ and find comfort and peace and pearls of wisdom in the Hebrew Scriptures and our New Testament with the beautiful Gospels.....I cannot imagine being in an organisation such as this......
God bless you richly ♥️🙏🏽
Great content you guys. My bro.in law & sister have been in Sydney bethel for over 20 years, he a high up department head elder, career JW's is the expression I understand. The more I hear about how it all hangs together, the more I understand their madness & their sad strange ways.
Drinking is the worst issue at bethel. I went to several get togethers in 90 Sands & Towers where couples, bethel elders were completely smashed. One bethel elders wife had drank so much Chardonnay wine she was falling all over the place then throwing up in bathroom. Another bethel elder was passed out from Scotch. I was mortified how much bethelites drank.
I attended an awesome party in the 'penthouse' at 90 Sands - wow what a fantastic view over Manhattan at night 😍 I was a good girl at the time so no drunkenness or vomiting from me 🤣
Probably Anthony Moriss' wife with too much Chardonnay
I was in bethel for almost a year. I have never been so tired in my life. Was in cleaning department and had very physical labor. I feel asleep at almost every meeting for how tired my body was.
I remember those days. I was a waiter. I remember one day I had the 5AM shift then had to do all night watchmen that same day. I was dead. Then as waiter, you had to go thru this 2 week training boot camp that felt like outright hazing. I almost died from that.
What is a watchman for?
@@frankathalon6093 I wish someone could arrange a special news show segment about this place and screwed up organization! It really needs to be exposed.
Nice experience. I was visiting Philippines Bethel and we had lunch. Immediately after the opening prayer those at my table was gobbling up the food without hardly any conversation. In
How embarrassing........pillowgate
@@reneehoney7355 what's pillowgate?
The cereal in the coffee cup reminds me of when I was in military boot camp. I was yelled at in front of the entire galley for taking a drink from my cup after I stood up from the table with my tray walking to the garbage.
After hearing these guys talk maybe getting rejected when I applied for bethel was the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Next thing is to leave that cult
Why you are here is why you got rejected. Take it on the chin and toughen up little soldier 🪖
I skipped the blue pill of Bethel and opted for the red one that is regular pioneering. When questioned on my goals I recall that personally, Bethel was the line in the sand for me. I viewed as moving out of your parents house to a dorm staffed with elders 24/7/365.
Thanks so much for another GREAT video. And I thoroughly enjoyed your participation on Leah Remini’s show. You did a great job and I’m so glad that you were able to be on such an important show. The work you are BOTH doing is so needed and appreciated. Well done!
"Counseled for putting cereal into the coffee cup". Oh gosh Jordan. How freaking controlling this environment must be. You're working for free and they bitched at you for lying down because you were sick, still putting in work like a meat grinder, and the Bethel "bosses" have the audacity to complain. "You're using a lot of napkins - wasteful of dedicated funds". Cliff, no toilet paper for you for the next week to offset the deficiencies in the spirit of Watchtower's interpretation of
2 Corinthians 9:7.
Today I started watching videos again. Its interesting. When I left 20 years ago, there was no social media. I had to do all this thinking on my own. Now there is help. I wanted to bring this giant monster down, but I didn't know how. I thought I was alone. Now I realize I have tons of support. Im not angry anymore. In fact, I appreciate my suffering. I am enlightened in a way most people never will be. It comes from the failures I experienced as a JW.
I think I will spend more time in this community. I would like to help.
Same
The name is an abreviation. It's actually Beth-Hell.
Scot Wm 😄
Scot Wm - I thought it was Ba'al-thel 😆
LOL!
I have always maintained where there is a governing body structure, those with a little power down the gradient line always prove the worst offenders of dumping on people. I am thinking that Jehovah would have frowned on this authoritarian behavior of humans mimicking God Himself. It seems that these typical behaviors are the same no matter what religion you investigate. The same structure is happening in the Vatican. It's the same old same old: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
love the profile pic... the face is very accurate to listening to this crap lol "huuuUUUH?"
A wonderful collaboration! I was never JW, so these sorts of stories and discussions are especially eye opening. It is always fascinating to learn about what others believe/did believe.
I went on a trip to Bethel in London to see the New Printing Press . I found it disturbing . There were these massive shiny new presses with conveyer belts full of newly printed bibles and books . No Litter . No dust , no noise ,no workers ...just one lone suited man on a fork truck . We walked past offices with neat , sterile “ sisters “ sat staring at screens on desks . Everyone visiting from my Congregation thought it was wonderful and spiritual ! .....i kept saying “ I bet there’s another REAL factory down the road with grime , ink and dirty workers all shouting and swearing , as would be normal “. My friends were shocked ...... they were even more shocked when I woke up from the nightmare and disassociated myself . Thanks to The Jackson Jackass and the ARC
Wonderful stuff guys. When I thought I had heard it all the rabbit hole just goes deeper and deeper. This organisation is such a joke. Keep exposing these deceitful people.
I cannot even imagine living a sequestered existence 24/7 in Brooklyn--heart of the Big City with all its noises, smells, and concrete jungle. Perfect recipe for totally losing it--for going bonkers.
Being counseled for putting cereal in a coffee cup?? OMFG. That's insane.
"You're using a lot of napkins." Holy shit. Uber pettiness + control trip.
Thanks for another enlightening talk-story.
Hope to see similar convos with former JW women, who I'm certain can share unique perspectives about what it means to be a 'sister' in a high-control patriarchal group.
With reference to the lay offs at Bethal, some witnesses were saying that it was Jehovah's way of cleaning house. So, they were actually implying the people who were put out had done or commit some sinful act.
That is terrible
Well this is an early Christmas present! Thanks Lloyd, Fifth and Jordan have a wonderful Xmas guys!!!!!!!!!
This looks like a really good series. Thanks Lloyd and everyone taking part
A young friend wanted to go to bethel since he was very young. He had been so exited that he was accepted to bethel. The congregation had a party for him. Less than a year later he returned home. He was no longer happy. He seemed introverted and quiet. He confided to me that he felt like a failure. I told him that not everyone can survive the military like atmosphere of bethel. He shared some experiences. He said he never felt good enough while there. I believed he was holding secrets. His faith was no longer solid. Months later he sent in a letter of disassociation. Fortunately his elder father did not shun him. Sadly within a year he committed suicide. Prior to moving to bethel he was a happy person. His downward spiral began at bethel.
Terribly sad!
That's so sad 😲
Another great video Lloyd. Thank you for exposing The Watchtower.
Thank you guys for taking the time to speak on your experiences. More & more eyes are beginning to open!
I’m very glad that this movement is around...it’s such a help to young people who have been shunned by their families...
If it's You, Lloyd, I've learned hit Like before the video even starts because you always seem to have interesting content. No pressure tho .. LOL
TVTube Me me too and I always want to jump in on the conversation.
me too :)
Lloyd I am so glad to see your subscribers just increasing everyday. You are definitely helping so many people to wake up.
My bethel experience. Worked on the printing presses in Brooklyn. Loved it and the guys I worked with. Loved the congregation I was assigned to. As with most corporate environments middle management is the worst. The bethel elders in their mid 30s to mid 40s looking to impress the higher ups really made life miserable for us. I hated security duty in the factory buildings. Bethel wives were totally useless and often in the way. There were two openly gay men in our department and they were roommates!!!! Still not sure how that was acceptable.
Lies!
If life at Bethel is a preview of the 'New System'...count me out!
Omg I spent my life being counseled. In the congregation everyone has the scriptural responsibility if they see their brother or sister straying then they must go to them and help them to straighten their path.
Is based on opinions. I'm a gifted musician.... a gifted savant singer.... I actually got told I needed to not song so well because it was discouraging other people.
After secretly training since I was 15 I am trying for a music career I have dreamed of my entire life.
Great video Lloyd. I had just commented on one of Jordan's recent videos stating that it is rare to find ex-Bethelite stories on UA-cam. Before Jordan, I had only heard stories from Marcus V. I hope this series continues. Thanks.
Ex-JW Critical Thinker JT was also a Bethelite, I believe. He was very deep in the society, kniwn as a "company man". Look up his videos. Very insightful
I woke up to the real Jehovah's Witness after 30 years of trying to be perfect. I read the bible through on my own about 4-5 times before I started to realize one day at the meetings that everything I was believing from this magazine was a lie. I had an attempted rape that I was able to fight off from a so called brother that I turned into the elders who quickly reminded me that I was not to get emotional and I sat there and they never asked him a single question and the brother remained a ministerial servant (even though he pulled this trick on other younger sisters). I became disheartened and I start watching different ministries on TV that's what got me disfellowship. So I sat down one year while I was fasting and decided to write/type all 66 books of the bible I got more spiritual understanding of everything than I had being 30 years with that satanic group.
As a guy, who is now over 70 yrs of age, I feel bitterly disappointed that you and other young, and older women, experience the sort of treatment to which you have been subjected. There is no excuse for such offensive treatment in today's world. Even less, that when it happens, there are no consequences for the perpetrator/s that may serve as a warning to others that it should never occur, at any time, in any organization or circumstances.
I am half a world away, in Western Australia, so it can truly be said that your pain resonates around the world on your own account but also on behalf of others who have experienced similar treatment.
My admiration goes to you for having worked toward resolution in your own mind about that abusive attack on you as a person and your integrity. While such events in our lives challenge our capacity to trust others, it would be good to know that you are now with someone or people with whom you feel safe.
Best Wishes, Peter
I just have to say, as a young child I was well aware of the negative connotation with Bethel. There were congregation members who would act warm and friendly before going to Bethel.And upon returning to the kingdom hall, they would immediately exclude you from their life. They would stop speaking and be "puffed up with pride" so to speak. They acted as if they were better than you. They even associated more with the people who had also gone to Bethel.
I remember visiting a few Bethels across Canada & NY & at 1st I was impressed with the magic of it all. But 1 young sister always came back to my mind & how odd she seemed at the end of her tour.
We slipped her some $$ as a tip for her time & how relieved & weary she looked. Then during a talk later it was brought out how important those funds were to them to cover expenses like female products 😳😲😥.
They have almost NOTHING in the way of money to cover things like this.
As a woman with my own serious female issues that resulted in a hysterectomy, I couldn't imagine not having these 'trivial' things. How heartless. It made think they must be desperate to take a turn at giving a tour just to get a little money to cover their needs. 😥😢😭
Being an ex Bethelite of Brooklyn during 1980s years I agree with your the guys you interviewed.
Two of my favourite persons, yeay! Great video Lloyd. Hats off to you Jordan and Fifth for surviving that regimented life at Bethel. Seems to me that some persons in charge at Bethel live for controlling and ordering around the brothers. Splinter vs plank in the eye anyone?
I’m a little behind in watching your videos, Lloyd, and this one in particular has struck a really powerful note with me.
What a genuine pleasure to listen to you, Cliff and Jordan talking openly - and reasonably - about the unreal places that we collectively call “Bethel”. I do agree that, the closer you get to the top of the JW hierarchy, the more you have to fight the urge to call out, “Hey, the emperor’s got no clothes on!” JWs who never leave their home base simply have no idea what it’s really like so can maintain the idealised picture of life at Bethel. Your humour is also very refreshing and a necessary antidote to the seriously charged atmosphere of Bethel being s super spiritual place.
I was particularly taken by Cliff’s account of the Bethelites brother purposely using methods of group pressure psychology to engender guilt and the urge to confess “sins” among Bethelites. Evangelical churches use a more positive version of this method of manipulation at revival meetings where the leader whips up group emotion over the need for those present to “ hear the Lord” reaching out and calling them to give themselves to Him. It’s a hyped up atmosphere in which people often find themselves doing and saying things they would not ordinarily say and do. In the case of Bethelites, it increases the likelihood of brothers confessing intensely personal matters to other humans because they’ve been made to feel like it’s Jehovah’s way of calling them out (“tapping them on the shoulder.”)
Once you realise this is nothing more than the organization’s recourse to cheap psychological maneouvres, it dawns on you, “This ain’t Jehovah - this is simply a manipulative speaker who wants you to feel soooo bad that you will confess almost anything - oh, and also snitch on anyone else”.
The more people educate themselves, the more they will see that JW organization - as with ALL high control groups - routinely use psychological trickery - and NOT holy spirit to manipulate believers into feeling God has spoken directly to them and they’d better go to their superiors to seek absolution.
Uggh I remember the guys we called “bethel weird”. Don’t get me wrong the time I spent at bethel was actual better than my time with my witness parents, but I saw the belly of the beast and these stories ring true. The fact that there were so many different standards and so many different faces and hats you had to put on for different circumstances; keeping up the illusion for tours.
Hey John,
Loved the interview with these guys! If you ever need more bethel material,I got you covered,was there in Brooklyn in 89-94 worked in the press room. Served in foreign language and as elder for a decade, sent my letter of dissociation with my family 11/2 ago. Got some great insider digs!
Always enjoy your videos!
This is great! I hope to hear your story
I was there in 88-89. Brooklyn. I was in the bindery. I've got lots of deep stuff.
I would love to hear if someone from Bethel, such as anyone who worked as an actor in those horrible J-Dub Movies or in the music department, has left the organization.
I personally know about 70- 80% of the people in every Watchtower video and movie that's come out since 2005, and we even follow each other on Instagram. They're all still very active.
@@frankathalon6093 Sad ☹.
I pray the Lord helps to open their eyes and start leaving.
@@frankathalon6093 - We only need one to wake up. The rest will be history.
Yes! How great would it be to hear from them!
@Agrisberto Hernandez - Not if they awake and are upset because the fact that they were lied too for all these years. That anger may be manifested in the form of wanting to share with others what they now know.
I was a JW for 32 years, Regular Pioneer and Ex-bethelite, and I'm more than happy to share with others what I now know.
Thankyou from those of us who would never be able to see through the looking glass. It helps us to see how it really is a man-made organisation. Have an enjoyable holiday period and I look forward to more from you all in 2019
The worst people I've ever met in my life were when I lived in Bethel (some of the better ones too...but mostly bad).
The bad ones were mostly the higher ups and the climbers.
I was sooooo close to going to New York Bethel. But the local elders "lost?" my application. What ever that means. I'm just soooo glad I missed out on all that fun. Thanks for sharing.
Too many napkins!!!!!!!! 😳 What I saw and experienced was POWER, it’s all about POWER. My brother- in-law once said to me because I went to the theater to watch the movie ‘Witness’ that I could be ‘marked’ and I came back at him that he could be ‘marked’ for watching ‘Murder She Wrote’. He didn’t like my come back at all. It’s the power of dictating what they perceive as good or bad.
I know a JW who went to Bethel and that experience woke him up!
This is all so funny. I remember one elder that felt he could try to correct anything he personally didn't agree with, like his opinion was a model of what to strive for. He was at my house one day when I got home from a very tiring day, he asked how I was. I was dirty, sweating and still in my work clothes. "I'm absolutely knackered” I told him. "I beg your pardon?" He snapped. He obviously thought it was a swear word and often might be presented like that but its actual meaning is far more innocent - perhaps like "bastard" - it is abused but has a proper meaning. "Knackered" I replied, " ... at the end of one's working life, fit only for the knacker's yard" (a knacker man is someone who buys and 'recycles' old horses). He was so taken aback by my dictionary definition, pushing back on his misguided offence. He really had a hard on for being an elder and attempted to exert authority over me in my own house as a visitor!!! Cheeky swine. I never did back down on that. I can't stand all these nobody's that suddenly get a little bit of power and boy! Are they gonna make up for lost time.
Great to see them both, I've been following their channels as well as yours.
Can't seem to finish this video before commenting! How scary that would be for long term workers that gave up everything for this cause to be turned away with no severance or unemployment insurance
I haven't even watched it yet ..I like to read the comments first
Ray Franz, I believe, was given a stipend of 10,000.00 after forty years of service- do not know if Ed Dunlap was given anything at all at the age 0f 69(?)- way too little. Bethelites should be given some sort of extended education as well as an appropriate sum of money. This is truly what is terrifying about youths becoming so entrenched in a belief system that molds what they will do from a very young age. A façade that is put forth and maintained by not being able to be honest. Again, the belief this is the house of God with his the ultimate amount of holy spirit. I am also turned off by the dress code of people visiting- ties and suits and dresses. I prefer a feeling of comfort and relaxation. I did visit Bethel about '89 or'90. Felt very drained.
jokich I was drained too. I didn't know why.
Bethelites are like the Stepford wives!!!!!
Yes robots for the governing body.
Scary but true.
I called my father yesterday, which in fact, was Father’s Day 2020. I told him that I understood how important it was to call your Father on the special day set aside for your father. He proceeded to lecture me on worldly holidays, and how I have become influenced by outside knowledge. Then he hung up on me.
John you should go to the Joe Rogan podcast that would be epic :)
I went to Bethel thinking it was God's organization. My eyes were opened and after 10 Months I asked to be released. I walked away saying this is a man made, man ruled club. Full of hierarchy. It took a further 2 years and left them altogether. Then after 3 years got disfellowshipped. That's now 35 years ago. I am so happy to have a strong Christian faith with great Christian friends.
I once knew the son of a Circuit Overseer who spent some time at Bethel in the 1970s. He told me how he would travel to Manhatten at night and work waiting tables in fancy restaurants. He said that the wages were low, but the cash tips were very good. Returning to Bethel after work, reeking of cigarette smoke, might have been a problem for him. I'm not positive about this, but I think this brother was invited to leave Bethel. Apparently, Bethelites are no longer permitted to come and go so freely.
Great to see Jordan on your channel. Great info guys. Keep it coming!
Could anyone imagine what ' paradise'. would be like if it was run by the Bethelite napkin- counters and their fellow 'slave' allies? Another fantabulous( beyond awesome) video,Lloyd and fellas!
Love these behind the scenes interviews. I remember a special pioneer couple visiting a bunch of “yung wans” I knew about a year or two ago, and all they did was try to push them to go to Bethel. They treated it like it was basically paradise already there. Nice to see how it REALLY is. Thanks guys!
WOW, I remember when I was 17 my family drove out to New York and toured Bethel. This was back in 1989, they made it seem like a well oiled machine, a "oasis" in the midst of a dessert. I remember the guide always asking me if I hoped to come to Bethel some day.
It is fascinating to hear some of the stories from behind the scenes. I remember shortly afterwards my cousin went out there for a while. He told me about some others who were told to leave because they had hidden Rap music in the Kingdom music and drama cassette tapes. I always wondered how anyone ever found out. But now I know more about the snitch culture it makes perfect sense.
I think the housekeepers that clean their rooms are the ones that go through their personal stuff.
"Every once in awhile you catch someone in a moment of honesty" that really must be the TRUTH eh'?!?!
I know of a girl who just left for bethel and they give her one hour a week of vacation. It’s literally a job. And she’s not getting paid for it whatsoever. But still is only allowed an hour a week of personal vacation?
I would like to know what their answer would be to this question: If the end is so close why undertake this elaborate construction work to build a new headquarter? Why not focus all the time and energy on the preaching work?
Oh they think they will live forever on earth. Everyone else is going to die. Great huh?
Thanks for the great video, what an eyeopener. I am amazed at the sheer pettiness that goes on at bethel. No wonder some of them turn to alcohol. Can't wait for the next episode of bethelmania...
You guys are all awesome!! Thank you again for another amazing video! I love all your channels
My wife’s family had spent some time at Brooklyn Bethel in the mid 70’s and her cousin would come out for the weekend and tell us some stories. Some of them made you feel like you were missing something from a “worldly” standpoint. Amos 4:4 “Let us go to Bethel to commit transgression”
Brooks was here (Shawshank)
I had a fully believing jw friend who went to bethel tell me that bethel is not like everyone makes it out to be and there is alot of homosexuality and drunken parties and just overall strange and creepy environment.
The scene with Brooks getting out of Shawshank is one of the saddest scenes in movie history. I think that's a really good analogy to make, too. If people are in a place like Bethel, then like prison they are in isolation for so long that trying to reacclimate to the outside seems impossible, except with an added fact that as a JW they've been isolated from anything "worldly" to begin with. I've never been fully in (when I was 14 my first boyfriend used 'studying' with me as a way to cover up our relationship but actually tried to get me to convert and agree to a betrothal), but it's so interesting in a disturbing way to hear these stories.
We have the same Ikea furniture 😃 my husband and I left before the internet age! I didn't know I would loose my JW family! I do miss them. My brother came to my house to tell me that he would talk to me when I came back, this was over 25 years ago. 🙄
A pack of 500 napkins costs $3. Lets say you use 5 napkins per meal. That pack will last for a month and it’s costing 9 pennies per day. That brother giving council may have reduced the cost to Bethel by an entire 50 cents.
That's nothing. I was a waiter at Bethel and we used glass dishware to set the tables. So of course you're going to break some of that stuff. Everytime we broke a dish, we had to put a check mark by our name. If you had to many check marks at the end of the month, you had to go the overseer and get counseled about wasting bethels/the brothers and sisters donations as if they werent already wasting it paying lawsuit fees
@@cardboardbox9977 would be interested to know about your experiences in Bethel :)
Awesome vid Lloyd. fifth was one of the first UA-camrs that woke me up from this cult due to his sincerity, especially the video interview with Pedro.
Thanks fifth
Hi! Great video.. I’m new to your channel and looking forward to watching more. I was raised by hardcore Witnesses and left the organization over 10 years ago. Three of my four brothers served at Bethel.. one was kicked out for going to a rated R movie.. he was snitched out by someone who was doing his laundry and found his ticket stub. The snitch culture is strong with these people. I ran afoul of this practice frequently my entire life.. often with no cause.. thank you for these videos. I myself have considered making some videos of my own. Have you read CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE and TOWARD MORE CHRISTIAN FREEDOM? Heartbreaking....(I’ve edited this to reflect that upon watching more of your videos I now know that, of COURSE, you’ve read Ray Franz’s books)
PERSONAL OPINIONS ARE OUT OF CONTROL. Seems like that's all that's being taught now. Nice vid, thank you.
It's amazing to me that Jehovah's Witnesses are allowed to drink, when most strict religious communities forbid alcohol consumption altogether. I spent the summer of 1978 at the Jesus People commune in Chicago. Alcohol was absolutely prohibited. Nobody there drank. It was unthinkable to do so. Drinking easily leads to drunkenness, so for "drinking too much" to be treated as sin among JWs must create frequent problems for them; especially at Bethel. At the same time, JWs are forbidden to smoke, which causes no loss of sensory control. Go figure, right? Thanks to all three of you for the excellent discussion!
Theres nothing in the Bible that says liquor is wrong. Jesus even turned water into wine. It does go against getting drunk though. You can drink and not get demolished, it is possible
Bethel sounds more like a work camp...
Run by the Gestapo
It is a slave camp
When I was there in Brooklyn bethel....I noticed a lot of the old timers who were there since the 50s,60s,&70s were so institutionalized and a bit weird. They seemed to "get their way" and nobody would mess with them. Downstairs in the dungeon of 124 Columbia Heights there was an old cranky man they nicknamed "snake" who worked on vacuum cleaners. I wondered whatever happened to him.
Being at Bethel Kind of sounds like the story of the emperors new clothes!
I still have my bethel entrance school outline. I should post it on dropbox or reddit.
let us know if you do!!!
I would like to see that