How to Build a CNC Machine Shop - Part 2 (Quoting - Learn the Secret)
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- Опубліковано 26 січ 2017
- Nobody has done what Titan has done in this amazing industry. Titan & his team machines components for the biggest Aerospace companies on earth, He has the only TV series on CNC Machining and just created a FREE online education platform that is changing the game.
In this video Titan teaches you the secrets behind quoting a job. He discusses his calculated approach to making the best deals and winning work for his shop. Follow along as Titan teaches you how to build a business and compete in a global market!
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Most machinists I meet are very passionate about what they do, but Titan takes the cake! I feel like people like you are helping America go back on the right track! Your energy and passion rubs off on people!
Yeah but his $60/hr rate is what's killing the industry. I don't think it's high rate at all but it can't compete with China at less than $1/hr.
$60.00 is a low "shop rate", and $1:00/hr is a low "wage". Wages and shop rates are 2 different things.
@@OU81TWO If you want to make that part in China, then you "must" need to calculate shipping costs. Other - did it be maded from that exact material? did they do job right? Lot of questions when it comes to Aerospace where everything needs to be perfect and precise. These questions we can ask at any outsource companies. And last, you made it in your country - yes it cost a little more, but taxes stays at your country and workers have work. And Titans are great example of future and how things need to be done. Love their work! Clean, proffesional and with passion on what they are doing.
@@cosmolv What's more people you WILL send parts or components back from time to time because of quality issues. Not take that cost, but most importantly, DELAY into account.
Thank you. Been a truck driver for over 25 years . I just recently started working in CNC MACHINERY makings custom wheels. I purchased my own machine after getting promised work. Long story short things changed now I've got a machine (HAAS 3YT) a 2500 sq ft. Building and NO WORK.. Listening to your story has opened my mind up to some new ideas to get work. Thanks again I will continue watching TITAN
Thank you so much Titan. As a guy with very little experience outside of my wheelhouse, your videos let me know I am on the right path. I have the machines and a modest knowledge of cutting but have always stressed over quoting. My method is not too far from yours. I appreciate the sanity check. Your videos are a breath of fresh air and I am very grateful for the sharing of knowledge, very rare.
Now just teach me how to sell myself.
Inspirational, loyal, good communicator, expresses well, compels men to march into a tough battle (through their own volition) by leading through example.
Thank you,
Love these videos!
Only through exporting a 'value added' product can you lift the economy of a country out of the doldrums.
Unlike the service sector, where everyone thinks they are doing well (sure GDP goes up), all they are really doing is making each others' bed.
Circulating money but not introducing new money to the country.
How can you improve the economy of the whole country by doing each others' laundry?
You have to create value, export your product, and bring DOLLARS into the country!
Japan learned this after WWII, from the US.
Why it is not more of a focus now?
Titan
Thank you for enabling comments.
I watched briefly your TV show, and could not deal with the hype and drama,
BUT what you are doing here on the 'tube is simply awesome. Sharing all your ups and downs, and knowledge is nothing short of amazing. I am watching ALL your vids on youtube. You are doing so much to promote manufacturing in the USA and we NEED all of your effort.
THANK YOU!
Like anything, I had to learn TV... this season is just like this and its amazing.
I subbed on the strength of the first part of this series when you were showing your outer office and explaining your thought process and what it tajkes to make it (perfection) I don't own nor am I trying to start a CNC shop but many of the idead you put forth in your first video (perfection, color schemes, mission statement and how it all flows together) Kudos sir you have given me a lot of inspiration.
Another awesome rise and shine with the titan himself!!!!!! Thanx for the morning inspiration mate ,I love your hard-core enthusiasm and love of your country and it's people. T
he world needs people like you mate ,cheers Simon Davis.(27 yrs exp sheetmetal and machinist tradesman)
Hello Titan !
my name is Leon
im brazilian and i working in japan.
i have 25y and i become machinist since my 18y.
i love your videos, that inspire me in my job that i love too.
you make me feel very proud of myself and my job.
thank you very much.
This guy is awesome. I hope that younger generations will take interest. Skilled trades are dying. Not every one is cut out for a college degree. I wish skilled trades were respected here in the states as in other countries like Germany and Japan. There are obvious reasons why they're beating us. Love it man, I follow everything you do.
jlw 21 right here he's helped me alot
@@Houcnc In Germany they respect technical ability much more. The status of an Engineer is ranked up there as that of a Doctor!
Goes to show how the people value different skills amongst the community differently in different countries.
Great show. In Los Angeles California - been selling cutting tools to aerospace for 35+ years - about time someone got on the CUTTING EDGE and addressing the new generation! Social media in our industry is unheard of ! You go ! Linda
The time it takes to think of the machining of such a part would be well spent on the CAM. You have your tools in a library, you know the material and CAM's output times per ops and atleast in Solidworks with SolidCAM the times are right down to the seconds and if the part is a Solidworks part file, then the CAM can autorecognize 95 % of the needed features and do half the job for you. This also allows me to see what operation is taking the most of the machines time and in a longer batch run is te point of tweaking.
I also tell customers that if they supply the original Solidworks file to me, I can quote lower & faster. Works every time.
And if the job catches, you already have the CAM program nearly ready ;)
I'm a retired 30+ years machinist. I thoroughly enjoyed making a work of art out of raw materials. As a machinist I took pride in my work. The only thing that disappointed me was when I learned about "Planned Obsolescence." My career started as a manual machinist and ended in Diamond Point Turning in Optics with tolerances in nanometers.
Man, I absolutely admire and therefore respect your passion. Really appreciate how you're bringing this great trade and the supply side front and center. Here's to the doers and the go geters.
Hey, TITAN your video is just inspiring. That part is not even possible with $40/part in China nowadays if all finishes and tolerances are pins to the drawing. I'm running a one-man shop in China and me myself is the sales/programmer/machinist/..so on. Our country is also trying to kill our manufacturing with environmental protection campaign. I was forced to relocate 2 times this year alone. And yet my shop just couldn't pass the environmental impact assessment. Local officials love big companies and just don't give a damn to small businesses. Believe or not 1/20 of my energy was wasted to deal with the government. I did everything like how you did it at the beginning. I maximum my output with the right tool and the MRR was regarded crazy and dangerous in other machinist minds. I talk to experts from the tool vendors (I'm using Sandvik Coromant and Kennametal sometimes Guhring, too). I sleep less, in fact, I couldn't sleep well if there's no machine noise in the background. I just love this trade. But there is a good chance that I need to shut it down because I get tired to play hide and seek with the officials. Besides, the customer which need and appreciate the right quality is rare in my region. And last time what I heard from an Okuma salesman is, China's cost of machining trade is now on par with the Czech Republic. And many companies that make good products are even trying to outsource it back to Korea and Taiwan.etc.
I just envy you guys here that you could build it up when there is a chance and don't have to beg the government or bribe someone when there is the law.
I'm glad I have the option to post a comment and express my appreciation! Thank you for setting a standard and sharing your passion for machining and stateside manufacturing! Your example will help bring us back from our detour from being an industrial leader as a country! Thanks Titan and company, for your hard work, dedication, for your example, showing that there is value in quality manufacturing back home!
Titan, thanks for this great vid! I have a Tormach 440 and have the ATC thanks to their beta program. I have been making thousands of nylon parts for a certain big battery company and I love this niche. I am just hoping I will have more jobs like this since I have almost paid off my machine in less than a half year (thanks to Saunders Machine Works training classes). Everything you said is spot on and i love the quoting help. Thanks again man.
Thank you so much for this video. I just bought a CNC plasma cutter, for light to medium metal fabrication, a lot of different people have asked me is I can make them custom parts and I had no idea what to charge for them. You went into great detail going through every aspect of a job. I can now take that knowledge and successfully transfer it into what I'm doing. Please keep doing what you're doing.
Titian, your doing such a great thing for our American manufacturing industry! Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to help others succeed! This video is GREAT!
Fantastic vid my friend! Keep it up, we all love it.
Genuine well wisher passing his knowledge of his own business , you are legend.
I think machinist should charge more. We just had our carpets cleaned and they charged $80.00 per hr. The guy who cleans the chimney every year with a couple ladders and brushes charges $70.00 per hr, my plumber buddy charges $95.00. car mechanics are between $75.00-125.00 per hr,.Les Swabb has a sign up that shows $85.00 rate for fixing tires and flats!!!!!! No offense to these other trades but machining is on a completely different level. Great video, very interesting.
You are correct... its because we have been sold out by our leaders and have to low ball and fight over scraps from whats left after out-sourcing.
Things are changing though and if you can machine fast and efficient, you can get away with charging more.
In my country I have to fight hard to get $10 an hour... I do both engineering and machining! On my tools....
That being said... A medic does like $60 an hour...
You can get parts CNC machined in China for less than $1/hr. How can you compete with that?...you can't.
Mmm I've quoted China and that's not entirely true. Not from a good Machining company that's ISO9001 certified. And not for low quantities (~less than 1000 pieces). Their expenses are not much different from ours (electricity, taxes, machine and tool cost, etc), they only save in labour and overall labour is not a big part of the cost of machined parts.
Great walkthrough! It's been nearly a decade since we (Pierson Workholding) did contract manufacturing, but this video nailed it! Well done!
Titan, as someone in the electrical trade I enjoy watching your videos for general business ideas. One thing I may have missed in this video is profit? where are you building profit into? the hourly wage? or just assuming that you will outperform your estimate? I have been speaking to my boss about using labor burdens and then adding profits onto that. this way when bidding jobs we can use a simple labor and material calc and have the profit be built into the hourly rate.
You're doing a great thing for the manufacturing industry. Bravo, friend!
The most informative video on quoting that I've ever seen on you tube!
Awesome!!! You're a humble person for share your great knowledge... I appreciate your expertise in this field.
Excellent Titan! You broke it down so well, thank you for all you do!
Nice walk through Titan, as a Senior CNC Estimator for a subcon shop in the UK (Altec Engineering) it's good to see a simplified walk thru which is easier said than done. Why, you may ask, well it's because there is so may permutations to consider when bidding on RFQ's.
Excellent vid. Inspection can really be THE difference between your profit, and your customer's satisfaction. Pricing it into your quote not only means you'll make a profit, but it also means your customer is happy because the whole job was considered. Nothing like a profitable job with a satisfied customer.
That was excellent! Thank you!
Very cool finally getting to comment. I just wanted to say thanks for doing what you do man. Please keep em coming.
I just bought SolidWorks with a military discount. I don't want to have to pay my mechanical engine for all my prototyping anymore! I look forward to watching the videos!
I have been cost estimating for 25 years machine and fabrication. Owning my own facility one thing you touched on that you never really recover is all the labor spent in quoting. It is the necessary evil. You remember 2008 -2009 economy. When buyers sending things out to get requoted just to justify there job so they didn't get laid off. I remember playing the game.
God you are right. I work with Swiss type parts and we calculated a cost of over $200 a quote over a decade ago to do a properly detailed review and quote. Then you would get packages where "all parts must be offered to be considered" The best of those had 250+ legacy parts... Sometimes you need to know when to say no.
Titan, you got me pumped up! You should be a motivational speaker. :)
Titan man love these insightful videos these are the real deal inside behind close doors secrets I machine parts I know are worth multiple x's my salary. As a machinist this makes serious desires to open a shop for my self with the up front cost being so high. Its scary. While I have the 10 years of cnc under my belt im blind with shades on to the way of bidding and buisnesd
Hang in there, keep the faith, keep chipping away.
Never lose hope or that idea you want to strive forward.
Learn more,
Put in the extra effort when others leave early,
Get yourself out there,
Go to trade shows,
Become an expert,
Get recognised as the 'Go to Man' when anyone has a problem (because you are known for your ability,
Just as sure as the sun rises in the East, God will reward you with an unexpected opportunity.
Grab it with both hands,
It may be tough, Never quit!
You learn from your greatest mistakes, not when times are warm and rosy.
God Bless!
guy is a boss...as a newly indentured tool and die maker journeyman, he seethes everything i have been trying to get my owner to do. Our main problem with really high feed machining is HP..boss wont buy a big high horsepower machine because he thinks the extra cost is not justifiable...smh...keep on keepin on Titan..love your vids and what you do for your living community and the machining community..
I see this is new on TV. I bet he got a good deal with the software sponsorship. What a great way to teach a bunch of people enough to buy the exact software. Usually you have to buy the expensive software, then they will train your employees. This idea reaches many more people first, and I bet I will end up buying this software myself. Smart move. Great show. "PRODUCTION OR POVERTY!!!!"
Bro, thank you for this. I owe you for this information. You are very generous. I appreciate all the detail. Thank you.
Nice man I just got hired as an estimator. Been in the industry for 9 years. This video is nuggets man thanks
To an outsider quoting a job can be a headscratcher but to the guy knowing this job is keeping the lights on... its key to quote RIGHT! Sometimes its better to take a little pay cut if it ensures a long term client in the long run!
for sure. As long as the bills are paid, consistent work is better than overpriced one time jobs. Have to be real with your customers if you want to keep them.
Another inspiring video. Keep them coming
Wow... extremely useful... 20 meters per minute on metal... it inspires me to test my machine on wood :D Thanks Titan!
I'm new to this trade and seeing that someone is doing basically the same pricing model is really encouraging(i don't have enough experience so i do a modeling before I've even gotten an order to see machining time in fusion).
There's a ton of competition for a beginner without a name like me, so lately getting down a bit, but i got 2 things from this video- 1: Re-think my pricing, because i really need those orders to come in, and 2: Re-thinking speeds, even though its some cheap Chinese machine, i believe it's rugged enough to be pushed for quite a bit... it feels like jumping in water not knowing the temperature, but Titans videos really helps!
EXCELLENT!!!! I LOVE IT!! I NEEDED THIS RIGHT HERE! THANK YOU BROTHER TITAN!
nice one sir, it's help me after my graduation to run my own machine shop.... parts will be made in India ....Boom!
Great information, thanks for sharing. I just finished building a cnc plasma table and I'm just trying to get rolling. Bring back American manufacturing!
Great video, quoting is the toughest part of this business.
thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us
Thanks for the video. Very informative. Love the passion you have for the trade
Well this proves that Titan really does know his stuff, I am impressed.
I consider my self pretty good at quoting and that is a good price I think that the price is actually enough to make a profit from because he has multiple machines that are running for around this price point. I made a mistake when I was starting out and didn't think big enough I only had one mill and one lathe so my price point had to be 3 to 4 times that much (60-75)
just to survive and most of the time I didn't even come close to 240.00 per hour. I barely make it because I am doing a lot of hard to do work that is low volume and relatively high dollar. Titan thank you for removing the vail and showing how to quote in plain spoken English....
I’m only 18 going to school to become a machinist and this sounds extremely intimidating but when you’ve don’t it for years I’d say it comes easy
Titan all real CNC machinest love you thank you for your rentlentless.
Your on my IMTS calender! I'm freaking out!
This is a good way to quote if you’re a one-man shop And you’re in the business of losing money Why would you charge $75 an hour for everything you just did
You as a business need to make money and engineers also need to make money programmers need to make money the machinist need to make money if you quoted that job at $75 an hour for everything you did you left money on the table
Basically the business only made roughly $2000 on that job because of everyone they had to pay and that includes material and outsourcing
Think about it this business also pays for health insurance 401(k) for everyone and all that extra stuff human resources all the machines they invested in There’s no way they would stand
Just because the company can make a part faster than anyone else doesn’t mean they charge less it just means they pocket more money
Let’s say you started a machine shop you had one machine you used to work for somebody else for $25 an hour as a machinist but now you’re the boss and now you’re paying someone else $25 an hour and now you just charged the customer $75 an hour to machine their part do you think with that rate you can pay your machinist and your machine and your rent and your insurance and Workmen’s Comp. with just $75 an hour
All I’m saying is This part would never go for 40.00$ Unless you’re ready to lose money
Thank you for another really informational video!
Love you man you are an inspiration! Thank you! Keep up the videos!!
always a pleasure learn from you
awesome Knowledge you shared in this video. love it
Very insightful thanks for sharing this knowledge
Watching this on the last day of 2020!.. 2021 might be good
SOLID VIDEO SIR...keep them coming!
Part 1 and 2 were great but we are still waiting for part 3!!!
Thanks for your excelente training for share your knowledge you are the best inspiration for any machinist in America and the World
Nice and tidy. I HATE dirty machine shops, with tools laying around, with chips all over the place and machines that are not taken care of. Good job!
I estimate machining operations for living. I only have the luxury of a solid model maybe half the time. I use Surfcam and Mastercam to supply our talented programmers the occasional path they may struggle to calculate. I have found it beneficial to draw the part if I don't have a model or use the model and run the part in my cad system using historic feeds and speeds based on successful stability learned from experience. The cad system can then provide the cycle time. If we get the job, then the code is at my fingertips. For simpler operations such as lathe work I just use an Excel spread sheet.
My English is very bad, but i understand all! Отличное видео, вдохновляет! Спасибо!
Nicely put Titan, thanks
Thank you, Titan, for the inspiration, now I have to suck it in and go for it!
Thanks very much for sharing with your knowledge...
Titan, thanks for your great videos and your passion. Where does the cost of tooling come in to play. The company I currently work for adds all tooling to the quote for the job. Other company's I have worked for don't charge the customer for tooling unless it is something special that most likely wont be used on any other job.
WOW! This guy is on point!
Very nice! I feel good that my quoting process is almost the same. I'm still learning to get better machine times tho.
Great video. Only one thing...I have learned to pay close attention to tolerances when quoting. +/- .01" is a lot cheaper than +/- .0001". Same as finnishes
Awesome vid! I am just starting out machining and have myself my first VF2SS. Quoting is something that I have always stuggled with and as a result end up spending way too much time on so this is a big help, thankyou. One thing I was wondering though, other machine shops I have dealt with in the past lower the price per part with an increase in quantity, is this something that you yourself factor in?
thank you very much for the work u doing u contribution help America go back and share you own experience and help to increases new small business specially machine shop the information you are providing help me a lot and i am sure other people too ,thank again
Titan, Awesome video. Just a thought, if the part is cut from an expensive bar and let say there is a substantial drop (remnant), the price of the drop needs to be added into the total for price per part. Otherwise odd drops sitting on the floor are your tied up profits.
Awesome, thank you!
Hello Titan very interesting video thank you for sharing
Titan sir you are a genius👍
Would love to come learn in your shop with all your knowledge
keep up the great work!
Young machinist here: I was curious if you normally include part changeover time into the quote. I was also hoping if you could compare the quote of 100 parts vs 1000 parts. As an programmer/operator I know that those minutes add up... so does the company take the hit, or is that already included in the labor cost? Great videos btw, thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I thought his price was cheap. I'd be at least 10-20 grand for the entire lot of 100 pieces
I wouldnt be as close as you, but at least 80-90 per part.
Amazing to see your thought process for CNC estimate Titan.
A few things of how you quote i use but for a different business i run. Which is spinnings.
I typically factor in the price of a sheet of material. then based on the size square i need i figure how many squares i can get out of that sheet. i divide the cost of the sheet by however many squares. Which gives me a price per square.
I then factor in the time it takes my guys to do each spinning.
And like how you mentioned. You have to think about the competition. Can i do these parts faster? Do i know that i offer the best lead time and quality work for the price im asking.
Im not sure how often you get estimates for various quantities. But its always 5,10,15,25,50, 100,150, and 200 pieces. That seems to be the biggest difference.
Today I fully understand what does " time is money" mean.
Many thanks
Got any videos where you're holding true position tolerances down to .0001"
Maybe on some PH Stainless's? What about anything with a tolerance that is tighter than +/-.005"?
love the energy!
Titan you inspire us!. You present your videos in a way that feels like I'm speaking to myself from the future with clear instructions on what's important. between guys like you and our new president Trump I have never felt as optimistic about the future of our country as i do right now. thank you.
Doug Ryan Trump is a favorite where we work too. I feel like America is going to be back where it was when we were the leaders in manufacturing
Thank you for the details on how you price.
Good video. And somewhat reaffirming that you and I do it almost exactly the same way. One question though: what sort of markers do you use as when to get multiple quotes on materials and post processing? Total dollar value, or based on knowledge of the competition? I always try to get a good deal from my vendors, but sometimes, I just wonder if I'm wasting time trying to drop my price by 50¢. Thoughts?
This was very educational
Great video keep it coming
Great video,
You are right about people not being able to compete with you on time, that is smashing through those pockets I think I would be about 32 odd mins I had similar set time, I would machine on a 5 axis on the side and snap off in one op.
I would have allowed 2 mins for sawing the billets each and also I don’t think you are marking up enough on costs.
Think of all the hidden costs, the time it takes to get quotes, place orders, check the material/parts are right. How much has time has this taken, 15% will not cover it I guarantee.
Keep the videos going
Hi Titan, I am surprised we both using the same formula for quotation including mark ups. I usually put a mark up on the material costs and sub con like anodising, hardening, etc which we cannot do it in house. Rate may differ depending on urgency of parts (like some clients need it that day) plus burden mark ups which placed additional to labour time but it all depends on the type of clients.
Great video, thanks
very inspiring man, and selfless. Teaching others some secrets of the trade. nice.
Hey Titan can you do a video on Project Management? I want to know how do you manage several projects at once? What kinda ERP system you're using and traceability procedure like that. It would be grateful if you do a video in Project Management. Looking forward a positive response ASAP. Thx g
Very interesting. And btw, glasses suit you.
Getting old :-)
Thanks
Love it ! 👊🏽👍🏽
Wow dude you are the Joel Olsteen of CNC Machining!!!!!
Please make a video about payments, and how not to be scammed?
Love your work