Julian, now that's a "Great Wall". Enjoy your videos of Station Road. I will be following the collaboration with Sandling Junction. Bill from California, USA
Good idea to choose bricks for your retaining wall. Brick constructions are a staple of industrial Britain, their aesthetics puts you immediately in the mood of your landscape. I love brick constructions for my UK layouts for this reason.
As always, lovely work Kiwi. I have seen, as suggested by other respondents, the use of clinker and smoke box cinders over hard packed earthen floors and sub-grades for shed interiors and little used sidings. Readily available materials and costing less than true ballast.👍
Hi Julian 👍 I really enjoyed that my friend found it very interesting. As for the hard standing I’ve spoken to some of my colleagues from the Warley RMC and they say that it all depends on the traffic in the yard. For example if you have horse and carts or lorries that load directly into a wagon and need to park next to it the you would have hard standard. If for example you have a loading platform or goods shed then majority of the time the railways would not go to the extra expense of creating a hard standard that vehicles would not be driving on. Hope this helps Andy
Thanks Andy, that's very helpful. It's interesting to know budget played a part in the building of goods sheds where additional expense was avoided if materials/methods were not needed.
Inside the Goods Shed cobbled with a area outside either end cobbled, the sidings would be small ballast or even cinders (ground up clinker from steam engines) they are working areas where shunters and loaders would be working so needed to be reasonable walking surface
Interestingly I've yet to come across any visual references showing cobble stones surrounding the track area within a goods shed, they all appear to compacted finer gravel/dirt, ciders etc. So my initial assumption of a hard standing or cobbles might not be a common practice.
Looks great progress. I don’t have any actual knowledge, however I agree that hard-standing rather than ballast would seem more logical inside the goods shed.
Looking great Julian. Wow. How lucky are you to have a laser cutter! When i bought a the base board that became my Garage Project build videos I got a metcalfe viaduct model partly built. I had to disassemble the bits that were constructed incorrectly and half of the items that you used a laser cutter to create were missing. So i had to trace the good bits onto a card and cut it out with a Stanley knife after gluing the spare brick pattern provided in the kit that only covered half of each new length. What a nightmare. You are fortunate to have the tools that you have. 👍 Keep up the good work. Mon
Thanks Mon. I have to the laser cutter was one of the best purchases I've made. Well and truely paid for itself in the amount of time saved cutting materials.
Not looked into urban/city goods sheds, but in the rural ones I've got images of, the track inside the shed appears to be above the ground level (so top of the sleepers flush with the ground) and seems to be the same 'stuff' (so, compacted clinker/earth), as the rest of the yard. On the 'despatch' side; cobbled/'sets' hardstanding outside and into the inset loading bay (if there is one), to support the vehicles backed-in for loading. BTW, there is often at least one set of steps (brick or wooden) on the 'rail' side of the interior goods shed platform, to allow any staff there (shunter/goods checker, etc.) to safely climb up onto the goods platform.
Inside an around the goods shed the track seems to be cobbled and the area around the cattle dock was also a hard standing to allow cleaning the rest of the yard would have been ballasted but level to make it safe for the shunters to walk
Retaining wall looks spot on Julian, enjoyed watching the build of it. I think the inside of goods sheds of the year your depicting would be stone (cobble) or wood (old sleepers). Many thanks for sharing take care and by the way its been persistently raining off and on the last week or so on the South coast of Kent UK, regards Barry..
Thanks Barry. On carrying out a visual search (google), I've yet to find an image where cobbles are inside the goods shed, they all seem to compacted finer gravel, ash and cinders etc.
Great looking wall and the weathering makes all the difference like other comments I think you need much heavier weathering where the engines would rest or stop and the ballast should be oily and sooty almost black the goods shed needs hard standing but again like other comments it should be ash or very fine ballast to withstand traffic. Cheers Arthur
Great looking brickwork and goods yard area. Sorry to rain on the parade, but from an engineering perspective, I would have thought the double brick and the buttresses would extend to ground level, rather than hanging in mid air. Greetings from Bali.
Possibly, but as I mentioned in the video, I'm mimicking the Metcalfe parapets that are elsewhere on the layout. These have cutoff parapet components (www.metcalfemodels.com/product/po380-00-h0-scale-railway-arches/) albeit every second one. I did have thoughts about adding wedge-shaped brick buttresses to the wall which would give the wall added interest but also connect with the parapet columns.
Hi Julian. Being an urban goods yard I would say that, in and around the goods shed would be a hard standing. Not all wagons would be loaded/unloaded in the shed as some would be loaded/unloaded directly from the back of a lorry on a hard standing.
It's a thought I didn't consider that goods might be loaded/unloaded directly from lorries backed up to a wagon. Fortunately (by shear accident) there is an area of cobblestone (between the goods shed and cattle dock) that meets up with the track area, an ideal area where lorries can back up.
Coming along very nicely indeed Julian. The different colours and tones of your brickwork and buildings are very realistic. An interior colour photo of Stroud Goods Shed (ex GWR) shows track with exposed - though weathered and somewhat worn - sleepers, possibly on a concrete or other hard base. No clear evidence of any sort of ballast. Looking forward to your layout planning series with Paul. The dismantling of his magnum opus was tragic.
I found this B/W image and it appears the track and sleepers are just sitting on top of the ground, very interesting. www.stroudpreservationtrust.org.uk/uploads/2/1/9/8/21981304/5965566_orig.jpg
@@StationRoadModelRailway Thanks Julian. The building in the background is a multi-storey car park which, I think, was constructed in the 1980s, long after the Goods Depot closed. The colour photo I referenced dates from 1966 but I’m unable to post a copy of it here or on your Facebook page. It appears in Neil Parkhouse’s BR in Colour Vol 5B Part 2: Stroud to Swindon, published by Lightmoor Press, and is credited to Bill Potter and the Kidderminster Railway Museum. Taken just after goods services ceased, it shows the cranes, barrows, trolley, weighing machine etc still in place.
Ooh! A new venture! Sounds brilliant mate. At the risk of sounding like a repetitive groveller, I really like your methodical and mathematical way of approaching things but all the time aiming to incorporate the asymmetry and imperfections that are all around. The way you make things and then hack away when you change your mind I think IMPROVES the feel of the layout and makes it more organic. If we’re to describe your technique, it would be one of carefully calculated deliberate accidents! 😂 That retaining wall is brilliant by the way. Curved, sloping, grimy and layered. It looks solid and fits perfectly in its place. Good thing is of course that you can always add weathering so the goods shed will look great, if only because you’ll have a layer of aged weathering already 😉 id suggest though (sorry if you’d thought of this 🙄) leaving the weathering until you have worked out where the locos would most likely be stationary in the yard and in the bay alongside, so you can make that bit of wall and the adjacent track utterly filthy, grimy and splattered with an oil pool or two 🤓 BTW I wonder if you should put in a knackered old wooden fence engulfed by foliage rather than another bit of chain fence? Another thing I was going to suggest ages ago was a station garden, as there were often prizes for best kept station gardens. Perhaps the area immediately adjacent to the over ridge on that new piece of foam could house the Station Master’s prize winning floral garden? 😎 Or even a station staff vegetable plot which was not an uncommon sight especially in the austere years after WW2 🥕🥦 🥔 As for the goods shed track, I’d be inclined to make it very much light ballast and ash. And as for the hard, why not? It wasn’t uncommon for yards to be shunted by horses well into the C.20th, so I think it likely the sleepers would have been barely visible with just the rails visible above the ‘muck’. Even on heritage railways, the sidings once bedded in are rarely neatly ballasted anyway! 😜 Cheers Jules, look forward to the new offing 😎👍🍻🍀
Thanks Tim, carefully calculated deliberate accidents sounds spot on🙂. I did initially consider a dilapidated wooden fence at the end of the goods sidings but decided against it purely from a durability aspect. The fence being on the lift-out section and being quite close to the edge, the wire chain-link fence with its metal frame and posts inserted into drilled holes would be much more robust.
Whether the tracks around the staging area in reality are covered in gravel or cobbled stone is somewhat arbitrary, if you ask me. The layout would look best (in my opinion) if the whole area was cobbled up with stone, as the area would then look much more cohesive. Keep up the good work, man!
It may well come down to personal taste and visual aesthetic, but none the less something that might be plausible. Other comments suggest it's all dependant on the type of goods handled and also the budget of the railway company that built the goods shed.
That retaining wall looks amazing. Well done Julian. Great work on that area. Thanks for sharing. Roy.
Julian, now that's a "Great Wall". Enjoy your videos of Station Road. I will be following the collaboration with Sandling Junction. Bill from California, USA
Defo ballast in the goods shed
I love all these little change of levels, makes the layout much more interesting.
Good idea to choose bricks for your retaining wall. Brick constructions are a staple of industrial Britain, their aesthetics puts you immediately in the mood of your landscape. I love brick constructions for my UK layouts for this reason.
As always, lovely work Kiwi. I have seen, as suggested by other respondents, the use of clinker and smoke box cinders over hard packed earthen floors and sub-grades for shed interiors and little used sidings. Readily available materials and costing less than true ballast.👍
Hi Julian 👍 I really enjoyed that my friend found it very interesting.
As for the hard standing I’ve spoken to some of my colleagues from the Warley RMC and they say that it all depends on the traffic in the yard. For example if you have horse and carts or lorries that load directly into a wagon and need to park next to it the you would have hard standard. If for example you have a loading platform or goods shed then majority of the time the railways would not go to the extra expense of creating a hard standard that vehicles would not be driving on.
Hope this helps
Andy
Thanks Andy, that's very helpful. It's interesting to know budget played a part in the building of goods sheds where additional expense was avoided if materials/methods were not needed.
Looking good and I cannot wait for your further progress..
Inside the Goods Shed cobbled with a area outside either end cobbled, the sidings would be small ballast or even cinders (ground up clinker from steam engines) they are working areas where shunters and loaders would be working so needed to be reasonable walking surface
Interestingly I've yet to come across any visual references showing cobble stones surrounding the track area within a goods shed, they all appear to compacted finer gravel/dirt, ciders etc. So my initial assumption of a hard standing or cobbles might not be a common practice.
Great update Julian!!! Thanks for sharing this video! Cheers Onno.
Good job. Love the laser cutter.
Looks great progress. I don’t have any actual knowledge, however I agree that hard-standing rather than ballast would seem more logical inside the goods shed.
Looking great Julian.
Wow. How lucky are you to have a laser cutter!
When i bought a the base board that became my Garage Project build videos I got a metcalfe viaduct model partly built.
I had to disassemble the bits that were constructed incorrectly and half of the items that you used a laser cutter to create were missing.
So i had to trace the good bits onto a card and cut it out with a Stanley knife after gluing the spare brick pattern provided in the kit that only covered half of each new length.
What a nightmare.
You are fortunate to have the tools that you have. 👍
Keep up the good work.
Mon
Thanks Mon. I have to the laser cutter was one of the best purchases I've made. Well and truely paid for itself in the amount of time saved cutting materials.
Not looked into urban/city goods sheds, but in the rural ones I've got images of, the track inside the shed appears to be above the ground level (so top of the sleepers flush with the ground) and seems to be the same 'stuff' (so, compacted clinker/earth), as the rest of the yard. On the 'despatch' side; cobbled/'sets' hardstanding outside and into the inset loading bay (if there is one), to support the vehicles backed-in for loading. BTW, there is often at least one set of steps (brick or wooden) on the 'rail' side of the interior goods shed platform, to allow any staff there (shunter/goods checker, etc.) to safely climb up onto the goods platform.
I've had a look at the few photos I could find on the net, and they all appear to have finer, compacted gravel amidst cinders etc.
Inside an around the goods shed the track seems to be cobbled and the area around the cattle dock was also a hard standing to allow cleaning the rest of the yard would have been ballasted but level to make it safe for the shunters to walk
I notice the Little Bytham Visitor card, I got one of those in May, he is a wonderful host - I got to see Retford as well,
Mark from Melbourne
That's the July feature layout in the Hornby Magazine 2023 Calendar.
@@StationRoadModelRailway OK, similar photo to the "thanks for visiting" card I got back in May.
Looks fantastic. Showing the scene with the station set up, really brought everything together.
Nice job 👍🏻🏴
Retaining wall looks spot on Julian, enjoyed watching the build of it. I think the inside of goods sheds of the year your depicting would be stone (cobble) or wood (old sleepers). Many thanks for sharing take care and by the way its been persistently raining off and on the last week or so on the South coast of Kent UK, regards Barry..
Thanks Barry. On carrying out a visual search (google), I've yet to find an image where cobbles are inside the goods shed, they all seem to compacted finer gravel, ash and cinders etc.
Look in Railway Modeller Dec 1954 p226. It shows the goods shed at Tetbury, the ground level is at the top of the sleepers with the rails protruding
Unfortunately I don't have a copy of that Railway Modeller issue. Is there any online resource to this?
@@StationRoadModelRailway Do you subscribe to Railway modeller?
@@StationRoadModelRailway how ca I send you a picture? email?
@ 00.54 'sitting on the fence for the retaining wall...' 😀
Great looking wall and the weathering makes all the difference like other comments I think you need much heavier weathering where the engines would rest or stop and the ballast should be oily and sooty almost black the goods shed needs hard standing but again like other comments it should be ash or very fine ballast to withstand traffic. Cheers Arthur
Thanks Arthur. Yes, further weathering to the surrounding buildings is definitely on the cards.
Great looking brickwork and goods yard area. Sorry to rain on the parade, but from an engineering perspective, I would have thought the double brick and the buttresses would extend to ground level, rather than hanging in mid air. Greetings from Bali.
Possibly, but as I mentioned in the video, I'm mimicking the Metcalfe parapets that are elsewhere on the layout. These have cutoff parapet components (www.metcalfemodels.com/product/po380-00-h0-scale-railway-arches/) albeit every second one. I did have thoughts about adding wedge-shaped brick buttresses to the wall which would give the wall added interest but also connect with the parapet columns.
Hi Julian. Being an urban goods yard I would say that, in and around the goods shed would be a hard standing. Not all wagons would be loaded/unloaded in the shed as some would be loaded/unloaded directly from the back of a lorry on a hard standing.
It's a thought I didn't consider that goods might be loaded/unloaded directly from lorries backed up to a wagon. Fortunately (by shear accident) there is an area of cobblestone (between the goods shed and cattle dock) that meets up with the track area, an ideal area where lorries can back up.
Hi Julian. Would think cobbled goods shed to facilitate movement of small goods vehicles (eg. scammells) in and out of and inside the shed.
I'm thinking possibly some partial cobblestone areas, maybe deteriorated over time.
Coming along very nicely indeed Julian. The different colours and tones of your brickwork and buildings are very realistic.
An interior colour photo of Stroud Goods Shed (ex GWR) shows track with exposed - though weathered and somewhat worn - sleepers, possibly on a concrete or other hard base. No clear evidence of any sort of ballast.
Looking forward to your layout planning series with Paul. The dismantling of his magnum opus was tragic.
I found this B/W image and it appears the track and sleepers are just sitting on top of the ground, very interesting. www.stroudpreservationtrust.org.uk/uploads/2/1/9/8/21981304/5965566_orig.jpg
@@StationRoadModelRailway Thanks Julian. The building in the background is a multi-storey car park which, I think, was constructed in the 1980s, long after the Goods Depot closed. The colour photo I referenced dates from 1966 but I’m unable to post a copy of it here or on your Facebook page. It appears in Neil Parkhouse’s BR in Colour Vol 5B Part 2: Stroud to Swindon, published by Lightmoor Press, and is credited to Bill Potter and the Kidderminster Railway Museum. Taken just after goods services ceased, it shows the cranes, barrows, trolley, weighing machine etc still in place.
Ooh! A new venture! Sounds brilliant mate. At the risk of sounding like a repetitive groveller, I really like your methodical and mathematical way of approaching things but all the time aiming to incorporate the asymmetry and imperfections that are all around. The way you make things and then hack away when you change your mind I think IMPROVES the feel of the layout and makes it more organic. If we’re to describe your technique, it would be one of carefully calculated deliberate accidents! 😂
That retaining wall is brilliant by the way. Curved, sloping, grimy and layered. It looks solid and fits perfectly in its place. Good thing is of course that you can always add weathering so the goods shed will look great, if only because you’ll have a layer of aged weathering already 😉 id suggest though (sorry if you’d thought of this 🙄) leaving the weathering until you have worked out where the locos would most likely be stationary in the yard and in the bay alongside, so you can make that bit of wall and the adjacent track utterly filthy, grimy and splattered with an oil pool or two 🤓
BTW I wonder if you should put in a knackered old wooden fence engulfed by foliage rather than another bit of chain fence? Another thing I was going to suggest ages ago was a station garden, as there were often prizes for best kept station gardens. Perhaps the area immediately adjacent to the over ridge on that new piece of foam could house the Station Master’s prize winning floral garden? 😎 Or even a station staff vegetable plot which was not an uncommon sight especially in the austere years after WW2 🥕🥦 🥔
As for the goods shed track, I’d be inclined to make it very much light ballast and ash. And as for the hard, why not? It wasn’t uncommon for yards to be shunted by horses well into the C.20th, so I think it likely the sleepers would have been barely visible with just the rails visible above the ‘muck’. Even on heritage railways, the sidings once bedded in are rarely neatly ballasted anyway! 😜
Cheers Jules, look forward to the new offing 😎👍🍻🍀
Thanks Tim, carefully calculated deliberate accidents sounds spot on🙂. I did initially consider a dilapidated wooden fence at the end of the goods sidings but decided against it purely from a durability aspect. The fence being on the lift-out section and being quite close to the edge, the wire chain-link fence with its metal frame and posts inserted into drilled holes would be much more robust.
@@StationRoadModelRailway: Ah! With you, forgot about that. It certainly makes sense in that case 😉
Looking good
Whether the tracks around the staging area in reality are covered in gravel or cobbled stone is somewhat arbitrary, if you ask me. The layout would look best (in my opinion) if the whole area was cobbled up with stone, as the area would then look much more cohesive. Keep up the good work, man!
It may well come down to personal taste and visual aesthetic, but none the less something that might be plausible. Other comments suggest it's all dependant on the type of goods handled and also the budget of the railway company that built the goods shed.
Good morning Julian the goods yards I've seen including the sheds all have hard standing in on them if this helps
I can tell it's warmer - no gloves.
Great video